[08:46] <webczat> Hey.
[08:46] <webczat> I still have problems
[08:48] <webczat> With this sound thing, if i have orca enabled on my login screen and it works, i log into my admin account and i have orca enabled and it works, i create an account with sound permissions and i log out, i have orca on login screen, i log in to the new account and i have sound. if i start orca and it works, and then i log out, sound (the whole sound on the whole system)  is completely gone. If i log in to the test account and don't start orca t
[08:50] <webczat> what happens with my sound when i start orca on the second account?
[09:03] <leoquant> Hi webczat i have no idea, but stay tuned, maybe someone else can help you with this.
[10:16] <webczat> ugh
[10:17] <webczat> agh
[10:18] <webczat> is it pulse problem?
[20:17] <AlanBell> meeting in 40 minutes or so . . .
[20:19] <Pendulum> yes
[20:22] <charlie-tca> thanks for the reminder
[20:22] <charlie-tca> first install - unity on the ubuntu image - fails for nvidia
[20:22] <charlie-tca> can't get anything to work
[20:23] <Pendulum> oh dear
[20:23] <charlie-tca> no way to install hardware nvidia driver
[20:23] <Pendulum> is this the new unity based on compiz?
[20:23] <charlie-tca> can't read the information at the bottom of the gdm screen, text is light gray on white
[20:23] <charlie-tca> no, I don't think compiz is there yet, but I could be wrong
[20:24] <charlie-tca> All I could tell for sure is that the windows are now integrated into the panel
[20:25] <AlanBell> compiz unity isn't available yet
[20:26] <charlie-tca> but, at least the install worked from the alternate image today
[20:26] <charlie-tca> Maybe the desktop image will work tomorrow
[20:26] <charlie-tca> too early to get shook up about it
[20:27] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I saw something where Luke said he was installing it. maybe in -desktop. so it may not be public yet, but it's there for natty.
[20:30] <AlanBell> oh good
[20:30] <AlanBell> I think the compiled package in a ppa doesn't exist yet (or didn't a couple of days ago) but the code is available in a bzr branch
[21:00] <paul_h1> meeting time?
[21:01] <AlanBell> yes
[21:01] <Pendulum> one sec, I'm just switching machines
[21:02]  * AlanBell just did an unscheduled laptop reboot
[21:02] <Pendulum> AlanBell: exciting :)
[21:03] <Pendulum> if y'all will just bare with me for a moment...
[21:04] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: TheMuso IdleOne dutchie any of y'all around?
[21:04] <dutchie> Pendulum: o/
[21:04] <Pendulum> #startmeeting
[21:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 10 21:04:31 2010 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
[21:04] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[21:04] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Yep.
[21:04] <AlanBell> o/
[21:04]  * charlie-tca waves
[21:04] <Pendulum> TheMuso: ooh. wasn't sure if you'd be up yet :)
[21:04] <TheMuso> Yeah, its just after 8 AM here.
[21:05] <Pendulum> AlanBell: do we need to do anything special for it to do list of attendees?
[21:05]  * TheMuso needs make a habbit of adding these meetings to his calendar... Once he finds a suitable GTK application to do so.
[21:05] <AlanBell> Pendulum: nope, it will record everyone who speaks
[21:05] <Pendulum> win
[21:05]  * charlie-tca thinks orage is not accessible yet
[21:06] <paul_h1> hi all
[21:07] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Thanks, will check that one out.
[21:07] <Pendulum> #topic Review Blueprint from UDS-N & Natty Narwhal Cycle Plans
[21:07] <meetingology> TOPIC: Review Blueprint from UDS-N & Natty Narwhal Cycle Plans
[21:07] <Pendulum> so the main point of this meeting is to go over the blueprint from UDS, especially with an eye for making a schedule of it
[21:07] <Pendulum> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-improving-accessibility-devel-and-info is our main blueprint
[21:09] <Pendulum> Another relevent blueprint for scheduling stuff I suspect is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-dx-n-unity-a11y which I think has now been broken down into milestones?
[21:10] <TheMuso> Yeah the unity stuff has been broken up into a few different blueprints.
[21:10] <TheMuso> But David hasn't yet looked at the a11y spec since I updated the whiteboard.
[21:10] <Pendulum> TheMuso: am I missing any others that will have information that will be relevent to our scheduling?
[21:10] <TheMuso> Pendulum: I don't think so.
[21:11] <Pendulum> okay, has everyone had a chance to look over the blueprints if you hadn't looked at them already?
[21:12] <AlanBell> just re-reading the unity one
[21:12] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Yeah not accessible, and doesn't work with google calendar.
[21:13] <TheMuso> Which for me is a requirement, should have made that clear.
[21:13] <charlie-tca> I will keep looking. I can't find one that works right either
[21:13] <Pendulum> paul_h1: have you looked at the blueprints before? do you have any questions?
[21:14] <TheMuso> Evolution is buggy, I am able to make it crash a bit, and the calendar is not 100% accessible as it is, thuderbird+lightning is a non-starter, too difficult to get around, as just about everything is rendered as a web page...
[21:14] <Pendulum> paul_h1: you're the only person here who I don't remember being either in person or remote at UDS so I want to make sure you're on the same page as everyone else :)
[21:14] <paul_h1> Pendulum: not had the chance to read them yet. I was listening to the unity session at UDS though
[21:14] <charlie-tca> sunbird was good, but it went away in maverick
[21:15] <AlanBell> there is also https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-accessibility-reorg to flick through for stuff done/not quite finished from last cycle
[21:15] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: But that was essentially lightning was it not?
[21:15] <charlie-tca> That's what they say. It was a good stand-alone calendar that worked much better than lightning
[21:16] <TheMuso> Big shame.
[21:17] <AlanBell> ok, so scheduling of action items
[21:18] <paul_h1> I can't even install lightning, just tells me it isn't compatible with the version of thunderbird I've got
[21:18] <AlanBell> how do you want to do that? start with priority items? put dates against things?
[21:18] <Pendulum> I'd like to do a little bit of both
[21:19] <charlie-tca> paul_h1: it will require at least an up to date maverick. I haven't tried for some time, though
[21:19] <Pendulum> I suspect a good number of the action items (especially mine ;-) ) are going to actually lead to more action items within the cycle, but I'd like to get what we have scheduled if possible
[21:19] <Pendulum> for people who aren't here and have action items, I'm going to talk to them separately :)
[21:20] <Pendulum> TheMuso: am I correct that the goal for having the basic framework done and in Natty is alpha2?
[21:20] <charlie-tca> We should probably have at least milestones for planning purposes. 
[21:20] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: exactly :)
[21:20] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Correct.
[21:20] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Keyboard nav should be done by alpha 1.
[21:21] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: can we set that you'll have test cases done by Alpha 1? (feel free to grab other people including me to help you with that)
[21:21] <charlie-tca> yes, at least the first ones
[21:21] <charlie-tca> Will be writing at least 8
[21:22] <Pendulum> that way people can start to do testing of keyboard navigation with impairments in mind then
[21:22] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: should we break down your action item into specific test cases?
[21:22] <Pendulum> or into numbers?
[21:22] <charlie-tca> no, not yet, since I don't know for sure how many will be possible. 
[21:22] <Pendulum> ok
[21:23] <charlie-tca> I will keep trying to run through them and if I can get a number, I can let you know
[21:23] <Pendulum> so for alpha 1 can I say "preliminary test cases written" and for alpha 2 "final test cases written"?
[21:23] <charlie-tca> yes, I think so
[21:23] <Pendulum> that way we can define "preliminary" and "final" by however seems best to do them as things start gettind done
[21:24] <Pendulum> Alpha 1, btw is December 7th
[21:24] <charlie-tca> I think we aim for two or three for Alpha1
[21:24] <charlie-tca> We have to have a full working image to do all of them
[21:25] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm not thinking about testing. I'm just thinking about having the stuff written so people know how to test for them
[21:25] <charlie-tca> Can't really write it unless we know it will work. Otherwise, they will fail the test since it doesn't work as written.
[21:27] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I think you and I should talk about this outside of the meeting just so I can get some stuff straight and we can see what we can do since we won't have any accessibility features really in natty until alpha2 and we need most things written before then so people can test the heck of it starting with alpha2
[21:27] <charlie-tca> yes
[21:27] <Pendulum> moving on...
[21:27] <Pendulum> because I suspect this may help somewhat with test cases & testing profiles...
[21:28] <Pendulum> dutchie: AlanBell what do you think you can do with personas in terms of getting them done?
[21:28] <dutchie> er
[21:28] <Pendulum> AlanBell: was Charline's feedback useful?
[21:28] <AlanBell> well I am planning to get the Faisal one done in the next couple of weeks
[21:28] <AlanBell> charline's feedback was good
[21:29] <Pendulum> would it be reasonable to hope for rough drafts by alpha1 and then final by alpha2? (hopefully a little earlier than alpha2, but so we can set definite milestones say alpha2)
[21:29] <AlanBell> I need to do more of the fleshing out of the character as Charline said and get it published on the wiki
[21:29] <Pendulum> aka rough drafts for all of them
[21:30] <AlanBell> yes, rough drafts for all of them and one finished for alpha 1
[21:30] <Pendulum> dutchie: are you going to be able to help or is school eating all your time now?
[21:30] <Pendulum> (no pressure either way, I just want to know :-) )
[21:31] <dutchie> not likely to have time to help until end of term
[21:31] <dutchie> which is the 4th
[21:31] <Pendulum> of december or january?
[21:31] <dutchie> dec
[21:31] <Pendulum> so you probably can't do much with rough drafts, but could help on final, correct?
[21:32] <AlanBell> wow, that is a *huge* christmas break!
[21:35] <Pendulum> dutchie: ^^
[21:35] <dutchie> yes
[21:35] <dutchie> on both counts
[21:36] <dutchie> except it's not a break
[21:36] <AlanBell> :)
[21:36] <Pendulum> okay, I'm assigning myself to help AlanBell with rough drafts of personas and assigning dutch to help with the final personas :)
[21:38] <Pendulum> dutchie: what's your name in launchpad?
[21:38] <dutchie> jshholland
[21:38] <Pendulum> okay
[21:39] <Pendulum> in other scheduling stuff, I've just talked to czajkowski who is going to try to contact alejandra about wiki & website accessibility this weekend
[21:39] <Pendulum> so if people can send me feedback/links to bugs/etc. about those things, I'll pass them to her :)
[21:41] <Pendulum> TheMuso: I have down as an action item that I should be talking to johnlea on design about relevent keyboard shortcuts and what will be needed. Should I also be coordinating that with someone on desktop team? (not sure if it'd be you or someone else)
[21:41] <charlie-tca> bug 637927
[21:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 637927 in ubuntu-rs-forum "Neprecizni rezultati pretrage (affects: 3) (heat: 9)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637927
[21:42] <charlie-tca> no
[21:42] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: who was the no aimed at?
[21:42] <AlanBell> the bug
[21:42] <charlie-tca> the bug i screwed up
[21:42] <Pendulum> okay, just checking :)
[21:45] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Probably someone on the DX team, not sure who though.
[21:46] <Pendulum> TheMuso: okay. i'll ask around :)
[21:47] <Pendulum> okay, i'm looking at the list and the rest of the items are either assigned to people who aren't here or to me. So somehow I don't think they need to be discussed here unless someone else sees a pressing need
[21:48] <AlanBell> want any help with the wordpress blog?
[21:49] <Pendulum> nope. all I'm going to do is register a wordpress blog and then ask charlie to go through the various default wordpress themes that can be used and let me know which is the most accessible :)
[21:49] <Pendulum> just do a wordpress.com one because that's how most teams do it
[21:50] <AlanBell> great
[21:50] <Pendulum> yep
[21:51] <Pendulum> hope to have that all done within the next week, in fact
[21:51] <Pendulum> anyone have anything else regarding blueprints that they want discussed?
[21:52] <Pendulum> going once...
[21:53] <Pendulum> going twice...
[21:53] <Pendulum> okay. moving on
[21:54] <Pendulum> #topic Any Other Business
[21:54] <meetingology> TOPIC: Any Other Business
[21:54] <charlie-tca> o/
[21:54] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: go for it
[21:54] <charlie-tca> We now wiki pages for Specifications, Software, and Goals under the development header
[21:55] <charlie-tca> It would be nice if we could update them as we go. If a goal is reached, remove it completely. 
[21:55] <charlie-tca> If a piece of software is available somewhere and we want it, add it.
[21:55] <charlie-tca> Also, can we update the Contacts page, please/
[21:55] <charlie-tca> ?
[21:56] <charlie-tca> And, lastly, is there anything I missed in the headers that we really want?
[21:56] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm not sure we have anything else for the contacts page atm
[21:56] <charlie-tca> yup, that's a mouthful fast
[21:57] <charlie-tca> done now
[21:58] <Pendulum> I mean, I can put myself down as contact for locos & webpage (and set the webpage to be the blog), but not sure about forums at all
[21:58] <charlie-tca> It can wait, as long as we got the important ones down.
[21:58] <Pendulum> ok
[21:59] <Pendulum> and if anyone thinks of other contacts they want on that page, please let us know!
[21:59] <charlie-tca> At least now people will know there is a contact for each team area, right/
[22:00] <Pendulum> *nods*
[22:00] <Pendulum> we may want to list out more specifically that I'm general contact and TheMuso is really the devel contact
[22:00] <Pendulum> otherwise the wiki work is all looking good to me
[22:00] <Pendulum> :)
[22:00] <Pendulum> anyone else have anything?
[22:01] <Pendulum> okay, I'm guessing not
[22:03] <Pendulum> I wanted to let y'all know that tomorrow I start fortnightly meetings with jono. If there are pressing concerns that you think need to be raised with him, please e-mail or PM me. I can't promise to bring everything up with him, but I do want y'all to be aware that the meetings are happening :-)
[22:03] <AlanBell> excellent
[22:04] <TheMuso> Sweet.
[22:04] <charlie-tca> wow
[22:06] <Pendulum> anything else?
[22:06] <TheMuso> Not from me.
[22:07] <Pendulum> okay. then I'm guessing we're done!
[22:07] <AlanBell> not from me
[22:07] <jono> Pendulum, any chance we can change our time tomorrow - I have taken if on vacation, but like normal I am doing my calls in the morning
[22:07] <jono> can we do the call in the morning pacific time?
[22:07] <Pendulum> #endmeeting
[22:07] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov 10 22:07:39 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
[22:07] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2010/ubuntu-accessibility.2010-11-10-21.04.moin.txt
[22:07] <Pendulum> jono: yeah. I'm free. just let me know what time you'd like to move to :)
[22:08] <charlie-tca> Thanks, Pendulum 
[22:08] <jono> Pendulum, let me check
[22:09] <jono> Pendulum, 10am Pacific?
[22:09] <Pendulum> jono: sounds good
[22:09] <jono> Pendulum, thanks!
[22:09] <jono> Pendulum, just ping me on IRC around that time and we can figure out how to talk best
[22:10] <Pendulum> jono: will do :)
[22:12] <jono> thanks Pendulum!
[22:12] <jono> btw, folks, if you agree with OpenRespect, see http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonobacon/5164728083/
[22:12] <jono> would be cool if you could add something to your blogs
[22:12] <jono> could be a good way of socializing the message :-)
[22:13] <AlanBell> jono: is there an accessibility angle to openrespect?
[22:13] <jono> AlanBell, not really, just a conduct angle
[22:13] <jono> oops
[22:14] <Pendulum> jono: I was going to poke you because I'm not sure the sidebar on open respect is easy to read for people who need high contrast
[22:15] <jono> Pendulum, oh darn
[22:15] <jono> what would I need to do to fix it?
[22:15] <Pendulum> either make the type darker or the background a little lighter, I think
[22:15] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: have you looked at open respect yet?
[22:17] <Pendulum> jono: I should be clear that I'm not talking about the button, I'm talking about on the actual site
[22:19] <jono> Pendulum, you mean the 'SHARE THE RESPECT' type font?
[22:19] <jono> or the main body text?
[22:19] <Pendulum> jono: the "this site was formed..." bit
[22:20] <jono> Pendulum, gotcha
[22:20] <Pendulum> (under "Why does this exist"
[22:20] <Pendulum> )
[22:20] <Pendulum> I mean, I've got decent eyesite and it looks blurry to me due to the contrast issues
[22:21] <jono> Pendulum, I think it is a little darker now
[22:21] <charlie-tca> I have, and dented about it, too
[22:23] <charlie-tca> I did think all italics is harder to read
[22:26] <charlie-tca> Italics look pretty, but are much harder for a lot of people to read. The slant of the letters and the way some of them are formed make for more difficulty reading them.
[22:27] <charlie-tca> I guess I didn't really care so much about that, though. I think it is very important we try to get word out about this very topic.
[22:27] <charlie-tca> (and if I could get all of the ubuntu websites and wikis to be as clear reading, I would be thrilled.
[22:28] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I agree on getting word out being more improtant. I just figured that any little bit that helps people access it is also good ;-)
[22:28] <charlie-tca> it is. But I can't even print the leadership code of conduct on my printer. At least jono's sites are readable
[22:32] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: can you mention the problem with the leadership code of conduct in #ubuntu-locoteams?
[22:32] <Pendulum> and file a bug on it?
[22:33] <charlie-tca> bug 670927
[22:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 670927 in ubuntu-website "Can not print the "Leadership Code Of Conduct" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670927
[22:33] <Pendulum> they're planning on making it signable by the end of this cycle so they should know if it's not accessible
[22:35] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I've poked some more people about it now :)
[22:35] <charlie-tca> great! thanks
[22:36] <charlie-tca> 9 bugs about the website we would like to see some action started -
[22:36] <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.tag=a11y&field.tags_combinator=ANY&
[22:36] <charlie-tca> field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on
[22:37] <charlie-tca> Well, let me get that in a smaller url
[22:37] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, about the printing bug, would a print-only stylesheet solve this?
[22:38] <charlie-tca> I don't know stylesheets enough to say. 
[22:38] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: http://2tu.us/2svl
[22:38] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, it's a different set of rules of style to the page for a different media
[22:38] <charlie-tca> 9 a11y bugs about the website
[22:39] <charlie-tca> but that doesn't mean I know how to make it print
[22:39] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, as of now, the light theme is using the same styles (fonts, font-sizes, etc) for the screen and print, probably creating a different stylesheet suited for printing would solve this
[22:39] <charlie-tca> will a print-only stylesheet allow the ***IK:DML:JK  frame to send all the text to the printer?
[22:39] <charlie-tca> Right now, the text is cut off after the printer gets the first page of it
[22:40] <charlie-tca> I don't know how to get it to page the printer, I guess. I think that is what is needed, but I don't really know.
[22:40] <CaioAlonso> I don't have a printer with me here, but printing the page to a pdf gives me a nice version of it, are you using the light-wiki theme?
[22:40] <charlie-tca> Every website with frames prints the same way, one page of text out of the printer, and then it is done
[22:41] <charlie-tca> Try printing to a real printer, not a file
[22:41] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: the feedback I"m getting is that when it's signable, it will be on launchpad and be like the CoC
[22:41] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, does the wiki uses frames?
[22:41] <charlie-tca> That doesn't solve the issue of printing it. The text is about a 6pt font, which is very hard it see
[22:42] <charlie-tca> CaioAlonso: I think it does, that is what I find when the printout dies that way
[22:42] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: it's also apparently on the wiki somewhere (the link you gave was to ubuntu.com)
[22:42] <charlie-tca> Maybe it is a different problem with it, but normally if the printout dies, it is due to frames
[22:43] <charlie-tca> ubuntu.com is a wiki
[22:43] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, I agree with you about the font size, in that case a stylesheet just set for printing would allow increasing the fontsize, removing the menu and footer and maybe organizing the text to a better column width
[22:43] <CaioAlonso> oh, sorry, didn't saw that the link was on ubuntu.com, thought it was on the wiki
[22:44] <charlie-tca> CaioAlonso: the problem is, if the text is increased, less characters will print out
[22:44] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, on a single page, yes, but is it a requirement for the text to fit on a single page?
[22:45] <charlie-tca> not for me, it isn't. Even at the font size they are using, it won't
[22:45] <CaioAlonso> I'm going to post on the bug report about the printing stylesheet
[22:46] <CaioAlonso> and about the printer issue, I'll try to print it on the weekend and see what I get
[22:46] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeadershipCodeofConduct
[22:46] <Pendulum> (which confused loco people beacuse you talk about the wiki and it is in fact on the wiki as well and they were thinking "but the wiki had larger type, etc."
[22:46] <charlie-tca> no, I haven't
[22:47] <Pendulum> it's the exact same thing just in wiki format
[22:47] <charlie-tca> I see. Printing now, let's see what it does
[22:47] <charlie-tca> That one prints
[22:48] <charlie-tca> so, how do we get ubuntu.com fixed? 
[22:48] <Pendulum> dunno
[22:48] <Pendulum> but I'm not sure that bug is going to stand with people since there is an alternate format :-/
[22:49] <charlie-tca> If canonical is interested in accessibility...
[22:49] <CaioAlonso> I'll see if I can contribute to the lp:ubuntu-website code, then I can make the alternate stylesheet for it
[22:49] <charlie-tca> There is no reference from one to the other. It is still an a11y issue.
[22:56] <charlie-tca> I think this is what is so frustrating. The whole concept of "it is somewhere else too. just search long enough..."
[23:04] <CaioAlonso> charlie-tca, about the code of conduct?
[23:04] <charlie-tca> no, about trying to get things fixed when you can't really find out who to even notify
[23:05] <AlanBell> getting website stuff changed is *hard*
[23:05] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-website is the channel in theory
[23:05] <AlanBell> and there is a mailing list on lists.canonical.com
[23:06] <AlanBell> https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-website
[23:22] <MichelleQ1> I'm sorry I missed the meeting earlier. 
[23:24] <Pendulum> MichelleQ1: no worries :-)
[23:24] <Pendulum> you didn't miss anything particularly exciting
[23:25] <Pendulum> I'll want to talk to you about some stuff later tonight if you'll be around, but not right now
[23:25] <Pendulum> (just scheduling stuff)
[23:33] <MichelleQ1> I'll be around later tonight - 8-9ish?
[23:34] <Pendulum> sounds good
[23:40] <MichelleQ1> it's a date then!
[23:40] <Pendulum> ooh lala :P
[23:49] <charlie-tca> this gets funnier with each comment on the bug report now! It is incomplete because it looks fine in the browser,...
[23:50] <charlie-tca> lol
[23:51] <charlie-tca> Do we really have so many people working on websites that do not understand english?