[00:00] <pedro3005> /o\  \o_ \o/
[00:00]  * phillw is here
[00:00] <cprofitt> please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:00] <cprofitt> for the meeting agenda
[00:00] <jledbetter> o/
[00:00] <cprofitt> yes jledbetter
[00:01] <jledbetter> Sorry, was waving along.
[00:01] <cprofitt> ok
[00:01] <duaneipho> my car broke down so I am not at home. I'll try and follow along and participate
[00:01] <cprofitt> for the record can all Beginners Team meeting attendees say here
[00:01] <pleia2> here
[00:01] <phillw> here
[00:01] <jledbetter> here
[00:01] <friTTe|> here
[00:01] <pedro3005> here
[00:01] <UndiFineD> here
[00:02] <mbergamo> here
[00:02] <duaneipho> here
[00:02] <cprofitt> anyone else?
[00:02] <aveilleux> here
[00:02] <nhandler> o/
[00:02] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:03] <cprofitt> alright... thanks all
[00:03] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] UDS-N Blueprints and Notes
[00:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS-N Blueprints and Notes
[00:03] <cprofitt> duaneipho and I were both at UDS along with Darkwingduck
[00:04] <cprofitt> there were several things that came up in regards to the beginners team
[00:04] <cprofitt> the following were specs
[00:04] <cprofitt> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Specs/NattyRoadmap/MembershipProposal
[00:04] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Specs/NattyRoadmap/MembershipProposal
[00:04] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Specs/NattyRoadmap/MentorsProposal
[00:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Specs/NattyRoadmap/MentorsProposal
[00:05] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Specs/NattyRoadmap/FocusGroupContainers
[00:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Specs/NattyRoadmap/FocusGroupContainers
[00:05] <cprofitt> I know you will not all have time to read these, but these are the ideas that the council has been working on
[00:05] <cprofitt> and the reason for some of the changes that will be discussed tonight
[00:06] <cprofitt> there were also some other blueprints that the BT is part of, but are not the lead team on.
[00:06] <cprofitt> The 'core' summary is that there is a desire from the community leaders and some other teams to utilize the BT as an on-ramp for people to become involved in the community
[00:07] <cprofitt> Jono Bacon spent an entire session at UDS-N on Thursday discussing the BT and what the team has accomplished
[00:07] <cprofitt> he kept saying "great work"
[00:07] <cprofitt> so you all should feel very proud of what the team (you) have accopmplished
[00:07] <nhandler> Yep. Great work everyone.
[00:07] <duaneipho> +1
[00:08] <phillw> +1
[00:08] <cprofitt> the overall goal is to align ourselves a little tighter with existing Ubuntu teams
[00:08] <cprofitt> this is expressed in how we are re-defining the Focus Groups
[00:08] <cprofitt> membership process and mentor approval process
[00:09] <cprofitt> You may have noticed significant changes to our Wiki as we prepared for this meeting
[00:09] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure
[00:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure
[00:09] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FGCreation
[00:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FGCreation
[00:09] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:10] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:10] <cprofitt> in addition the header was tweaked and the colors changed slightly
[00:10] <nhandler> (and lots of emails if you subscribe to BeginnersTeam/.*)
[00:11] <cprofitt> the basic part of the change is that, in general, the BT FGs will be aligned with an associated Ubuntu team
[00:11] <cprofitt> bugs-FG = Bug Control, Testing, and QA
[00:12] <cprofitt> at some point if there is enough interest in one of those sub-topics and the necessary 'mentors' we would form another FG
[00:12] <cprofitt> but that team is an example of how we try to align with existing team(s)
[00:12] <cprofitt> does anyone have any questions about that part of FGs?
[00:13] <nhandler> Nope
[00:13] <cprofitt> ok...
[00:13] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Membership
[00:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Membership
[00:13] <cprofitt> We also needed to really nail down membership
[00:14] <phillw> in what way?
[00:14] <cprofitt> at present members are those people who have demonstrated that they are knowledgable in an area of the Ubuntu project
[00:14] <cprofitt> that could be development or advocacy
[00:15] <cprofitt> they will also have proven that they are mature individuals who work well with others and are dedicated to giving something back to the community and beginners
[00:15] <cprofitt> they do not need to be experts
[00:15] <cprofitt> just knowledgeable
[00:15] <cprofitt> any questions there?
[00:15] <phillw> Nope
[00:15] <PabloRubianes> no
[00:15] <friTTe|> no
[00:16] <cprofitt> The process is also detailed on the Join Us Page
[00:16] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:16] <cprofitt> I hope that this is very clear to prospective members
[00:16] <cprofitt> There are two membership cases...
[00:17] <cprofitt> an Ubuntu user that is knowledgeable, but has not contrinbuted to the Ubuntu Project before
[00:17] <cprofitt> and an Ubuntu user who has contrinbuted before to other teams, but now wants to help mentor people
[00:17] <cprofitt> In the first case the person will have to prove they have made contributions and are knoweldgeable
[00:18] <cprofitt> this might take 1 month or 12 months (long long time)
[00:18] <cprofitt> we do not rush the process
[00:18] <cprofitt> the second case would be a special case
[00:18] <cprofitt> such as Carlos (hgghd)
[00:18] <cprofitt> who is a long standing member of bug-control, testing and QA
[00:19] <cprofitt> in those cases these people will have a body of work that can be judged
[00:19] <cprofitt> and a history of working with the community that can also be looked at
[00:19] <cprofitt> in either case we have two choices
[00:19] <cprofitt> 1)  wait until an official team meeting to vote on the new members
[00:19] <cprofitt> or
[00:20] <cprofitt> 2) have the council vote on the members with input live, wiki and email based on each prospecitve member
[00:20] <phillw> +1 for 2)
[00:20] <PabloRubianes> +1 for 1
[00:20] <cprofitt> I would like to have the team vote on that idea the next time after we discuss it on the mailing list
[00:20] <cprofitt> I see positives and negatives for both
[00:21] <cprofitt> and think we should all think on it
[00:21] <cprofitt> any questions on membership?
[00:21] <cprofitt> [topic] Mentors
[00:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mentors
[00:22] <nhandler> I just wanted to note that even for experienced people, we still want to make sure they are integrated well with the team
[00:22] <cprofitt> +1 nhandler
[00:22] <PabloRubianes> good
[00:22] <PabloRubianes> I thing
[00:22] <phillw> +1
[00:22] <friTTe|> yeah
[00:22] <PabloRubianes> One thing sorry?
[00:22] <UndiFineD> +1 for 1
[00:23] <cprofitt> At UDS we received a couple of comments about some of our mentors not being 'knwoledgeable' in certain areas
[00:23] <cprofitt> PabloRubianes: go ahead
[00:23] <PabloRubianes> people who don't know and never contribute to the Ubuntu project... are going to be integrated till are electable right?
[00:23] <cprofitt> PabloRubianes: yes -- they will be prospective members that we work with
[00:24] <PabloRubianes> good
[00:24] <cprofitt> we will work as long as they keep trying
[00:24] <cprofitt> work with them
[00:24] <PabloRubianes> I think that should be clear for thouse people to make them work hard
[00:24]  * cprofitt nods
[00:24] <cprofitt> ok... back to mentors
[00:24] <phillw> agrees
[00:24] <cprofitt> we had some comments that are mentors were not knowledgeable
[00:25] <cprofitt> the incidents were isolated, but we agreed that we should have a tighter control on 'mentors'
[00:25] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:25] <cprofitt> you will notice a few things in the mentors page
[00:25] <cprofitt> there are now rows with time zones
[00:26] <cprofitt> I would appreciate folks modifying their entry to fit their time zone
[00:26] <pleia2> that's great
[00:26] <cprofitt> also there is a column for Focus Group / Qualifications
[00:26] <cprofitt> if you have no qualification area -- you are a general mentor
[00:26] <cprofitt> and you can help people join the BT
[00:27] <cprofitt> we all know how that works :-)
[00:27] <nhandler> Looks like the time zone column is messed up
[00:27] <cprofitt> if, you want to be a bug-FG mentor, you would need to get some testimonials from the bug-control team or another associated team
[00:27] <jledbetter> I think the time zones are subheader rows nhandler
[00:28] <cprofitt> time zones are rows that cover the entire table
[00:28] <nhandler> Well, we should probably make it a bit more clear that they are headers, but we can fix that later ;)
[00:29] <cprofitt> to become a bug-control FG mentor you would apply to the council
[00:29] <duaneipho> sorry for the flacky connection. what page we talking about?
[00:29] <cprofitt> you would get either the associated team lead to give you a testimonial or two other associated team members
[00:29] <friTTe|> duaneipho: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:30] <duaneipho> thank you
[00:30] <cprofitt> the council would then vote to approve you or work further with you to improve your level of knowledge
[00:30] <phillw> cprofitt: as PhilBull has made me a wiki administrator, can I add wiki to my area?
[00:30] <cprofitt> No.
[00:30] <cprofitt> you would apply to the doc-FG to be a mentor
[00:30] <phillw> okies
[00:30] <cprofitt> you would have PhilBull add a testimonial to your page
[00:31] <cprofitt> the council would then talk with you and make a decision
[00:31] <phillw> cprofitt: it's already there :)
[00:31] <cprofitt> it is not always enough to be made a member of a team
[00:31] <phillw> np
[00:32] <cprofitt> we need to ensure that the associated team feels you have enough knowledge to 'teach' and the BT council wants to ensure your temperment is suitable to teaching as well
[00:32] <cprofitt> being a mentor can be trying at times
[00:32] <cprofitt> so it is not knowledge alone that makes a mentor
[00:32] <phillw> +1 :)
[00:32] <cprofitt> any questions on mentors?
[00:33] <cprofitt> ok
[00:33] <cprofitt> [topic] changing the wiki to fit the new theme
[00:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  changing the wiki to fit the new theme
[00:34] <cprofitt> duaneipho: you have the floor
[00:34] <duaneipho> I have think we have done a pretty good job of that
[00:35] <duaneipho> has everyone tried the page out with the new theme?
[00:35] <nhandler> My only concern is that the theme might look ok in the light theme, but right now, it looks rather "bad" in the kubuntu theme
[00:35] <PabloRubianes> yes
[00:35] <cprofitt> I wish there was a way to have two different wiki codes for each theme
[00:35] <duaneipho> nhandler we might consider looking at the all white menus
[00:35] <cprofitt> but for now that is an issue
[00:36] <nhandler> duaneipho: I think that might be nice.
[00:36] <cprofitt> we can certainly keep trying to work on it
[00:36] <duaneipho> not as neat as what we have but more theme agnostic
[00:36] <cprofitt> right now our menus are grey
[00:36] <cprofitt> and the side is grey
[00:37] <cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt and duaneipho will create a test header page for different color combos to be tested
[00:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt and duaneipho will create a test header page for different color combos to be tested
[00:37] <nhandler> cprofitt: They have definitely gotten better (than what they were the other day), but the purple and orange don't go well with the blue
[00:37] <duaneipho> I agree
[00:38] <cprofitt> any more on the theme -- or just a desire to try and make them better?
[00:38] <cprofitt> ok
[00:38] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] New Member Nominations
[00:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  New Member Nominations
[00:38] <cprofitt> We have two tonight
[00:38] <duaneipho> yeah that is it. it was actually left over topic from last month
[00:39] <cprofitt> the first is bioterror mentored by phillw
[00:39] <cprofitt> bioterror is out due to family illness
[00:39] <cprofitt> phillw: would you like to speak on your mentees behalve?
[00:39] <duaneipho> oh no
[00:39] <phillw> he does send his apologies.
[00:39] <duaneipho> can we post his wiki
[00:39] <nhandler> cprofitt: So you want to process these in the old style?
[00:39] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bioterror
[00:40] <cprofitt> for now yes nhandler
[00:40] <cprofitt> team vote
[00:40] <cprofitt> until we have time to consider the proposal put forth tonight
[00:40] <phillw> He's been on today, but 2AM was too big an ask for him
[00:40] <cprofitt> would anyone else like to give a testimonial for bioterror?
[00:41] <friTTe|> he has a great knowledge in different things
[00:41] <phillw> cprofitt: I believe hobgoblin also sent a mail to mailing list.
[00:41] <friTTe|> always seem to know the answers
[00:42] <cprofitt> [VOTE] To accept bioterror as a Ubuntu Beginners Team Member
[00:42] <MootBot> Please vote on:  To accept bioterror as a Ubuntu Beginners Team Member.
[00:42] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:42] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:42] <duaneipho> hobgoblin testimonial was likely from his work in ubuntu-beginners
[00:42] <phillw> +1
[00:42] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:42] <nhandler> +0
[00:42] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:42] <duaneipho> +1
[00:42] <MootBot> +1 received from duaneipho. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:42] <friTTe|> +1
[00:42] <MootBot> +1 received from friTTe|. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:42] <UndiFineD> +1
[00:42] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:42] <PabloRubianes> +1
[00:42] <MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:42] <cprofitt> +0
[00:42] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:43] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:43] <duaneipho> I think we forgot to mention voting was for members:)
[00:43]  * aveilleux isn't a member yet so she can't vote
[00:43] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:43] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:43] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
[00:44] <cprofitt> [agreed] bioterror is now a UBT member
[00:44] <MootBot> AGREED received:  bioterror is now a UBT member
[00:44] <duaneipho> so is that 3 for
[00:44] <cprofitt> the next candidate is jledbetter with myself as a mentor
[00:44] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/jledbetter
[00:44] <pedro3005> damn, missed it
[00:44] <cprofitt> jledbetter: would you like to address the members?
[00:44] <duaneipho> yaa
[00:44] <jledbetter> cprofitt, Thank you. Yes.
[00:46] <duaneipho> i think jledbetter would make a good member. always catch her giving help when possible.
[00:46] <cprofitt> I would like to add that jledbetter has been active in the community by participating remotely with UDS, attending linux shows, presenting in OpenWeek and with Ubuntu Women
[00:46] <jledbetter> Hello everyone. I'm jledbetter, and as you can see, I love to code :) I'm hoping to help answer the question "I do X language and want to contribute. How can I?" I've been a member of Ubuntu-Women and my LoCo and am holding my first Ubuntu Hour in a few weeks. I have been interviewed and share my love for Ubuntu and the community. I blog and hope to do screencasts. Whatever I can to help out :)
[00:46] <cprofitt> She is also involved with a project I think we should also consider called the 100 user project
[00:46] <jledbetter> duaneipho, Thank you :)
[00:46] <cprofitt> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/100UsersProject
[00:46] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/100UsersProject
[00:46] <phillw> excellent :)
[00:47] <duaneipho> remote participated at uds and always violunteering for stuff.
[00:47] <PabloRubianes> Great!
[00:47] <nhandler> jledbetter: Lanuage of choice ?
[00:47] <jledbetter> Yes, have my action items from UDS and very excited about them :)
[00:47] <cprofitt> In my opinion she has integrated very well with our team and would be a good asset as a UBT member
[00:47] <jledbetter> nhandler, Java at work but learning Python.
[00:47]  * nhandler won't hold that against her
[00:48]  * cprofitt smiles
[00:48] <duaneipho> lol
[00:48] <jledbetter> nhandler, Appreciated ;) Gotta pay the bills.
[00:48] <cprofitt> no language ware allowed
[00:48] <cprofitt> :-)
[00:48] <jledbetter> Hehe.
[00:48] <cprofitt> anyone else have any questions for jledbetter
[00:48] <duaneipho> java got a lot cooler now that apple has dropped it :)
[00:48] <PabloRubianes> nope let's vote :-)
[00:49] <cprofitt> [VOTE] To accept jledbetter as a Ubuntu Beginners Team Member
[00:49] <MootBot> Please vote on:  To accept jledbetter as a Ubuntu Beginners Team Member.
[00:49] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:49] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:49] <phillw> +1
[00:49] <cprofitt> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:49] <pleia2> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:49] <pedro3005> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from pedro3005. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:49] <PabloRubianes> +1
[00:49] <duaneipho> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from duaneipho. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:49] <nhandler> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:49] <cprofitt> anymore votes?
[00:49] <duaneipho> woot!
[00:49] <friTTe|> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from friTTe|. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:50] <UndiFineD> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:50] <cprofitt> anymore votes?
[00:50] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:50] <MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 9
[00:50] <cprofitt> [agreed] jledbetter is accepted as an UBT member
[00:50] <MootBot> AGREED received:  jledbetter is accepted as an UBT member
[00:50] <cprofitt> congrats jledbetter
[00:50] <PabloRubianes> congrats jledbetter
[00:50] <jledbetter> Yay! Thank you everyone :)
[00:50] <nhandler> Congratulations and welcome to the team jledbetter
[00:50] <cprofitt> as there are no other topics I will close with the following brief comments
[00:51] <duaneipho> congrats jledbetter and bioterror
[00:51] <cprofitt> please remember to contribute to our meeting planning by adding topics to the meeting page and discussing them on the mailing list
[00:51] <cprofitt> yes, congrats to bioterror as you and your family hopefully get better
[00:51] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[00:51] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:51.
[00:51] <cprofitt> thanks everyone!!
[00:52] <PabloRubianes> I would like to congrat the Council for the great work!
[00:52] <cprofitt> Excellent meeting
[00:52] <duaneipho> yes definetly we need to take advantage of ml
[00:52] <phillw> very informative :)
[00:52] <cprofitt> if anyone would like to discuss anything I will be available for open discussion in our team channel
[00:52] <head_victim> Well run meeting, first BT I've sat in on.
[00:52] <cprofitt> #ubuntu-beginners-team
[00:52] <cprofitt> thanks head_victim
[00:52] <cprofitt> good to have you sit in with us
[00:52] <head_victim> I was afk for the first 30 minutes but caught up for the voting.
[00:53] <phillw> cprofitt: our head of dev was on earlier I'll catch up with him later.
[00:53] <friTTe|> sorry bout the voting i wasnt supposed to, first meeting and the AM is to blame
[00:54] <phillw> friTTe|: your mentor will flog you later.
[00:54] <friTTe|> yeah
[16:00] <mvo> hello
[16:00] <cjwatson> yo
[16:00] <barry> howdy
[16:01] <JamesHunt> ¡hola!
[16:02] <robbiew> yo!
[16:02] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is robbiew.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Foundations Team Lightning round
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team Lightning round
[16:02] <robbiew> JamesHunt: so fyi, we usually do a 2-3 sentence update
[16:03] <robbiew> which is usually already prepared by the team and cut and pasted :P
[16:03] <JamesHunt> kk.
[16:03] <robbiew> cjwatson: mind going 1st? :)
[16:05] <cjwatson> done: piles of merges (esp. isc-dhcp coordination with network-manager), enabled natty builds, consolidated ports on cdimage, made os-prober mark block devices read-only, caught up somewhat on 10.04.2 uploads
[16:05] <mvo_> sorry - disconnected
[16:05] <cjwatson> todo: um.  work items!  I think I need to get back to figuring out what's involved with using GRUB for CD booting, but am open to other priorities
[16:05] <cjwatson> --
[16:05] <robbiew> text free booting :)
[16:05] <cjwatson> "enabled natty CD builds", that should've said
[16:06] <cjwatson> I think I'm mostly blocked on the kernel team for that, but it's true that I could merge ebroder's blacklist patch - I'll do that
[16:06] <robbiew> cjwatson: thnx
[16:06] <robbiew> mvo: mvo_: ??
[16:06] <robbiew> lol
[16:06] <mvo_> did: 3 days on vacaion :), mail backlog, admin stuff (travel booking dallas, expenses), fix cron script on on people running crazy,
[16:06] <mvo_>  prepare natty update-manager, upload msttcorefonts with EULA display, work on my LP branch to land (in week 4 now ;)
[16:06] <mvo_> this/next week: blueprints! make maverick->natty upgrades work
[16:06] <mvo_> eh, vacation
[16:06] <mvo_> (done)
[16:07] <robbiew> barry?
[16:07] <barry> python27 ftbfs bugs (670188, 671222, 672843, 6633343); continue to work on python bug 9807 (build flags); flufl.* packaging updates for debian; maverick on apple powerpc; setuptools_bzr packaging and ppa upload from user request; help oubiwann w/C extension writing.  this week: finish bug 9807 work for py3.2b1; more ftbfs for py27; pkgme/udd work.
[16:08] <barry> thank you ubottu, that's not a lp bug :)
[16:08] <barry> (done)
[16:08] <robbiew> doko: ?
[16:09] <doko> back from vacation / llvm developers meeting last week, catching up, writing two specs
[16:09] <doko> and grumbling about the changelog change ...
[16:09] <cjwatson> barry: good to know it's fixed though!
[16:10] <robbiew> Keybuk: ?
[16:10] <barry> cjwatson: not yet accepted upstream, but i'm hopeful ;)
[16:10] <cjwatson> I meant the LP bug :-)
[16:10] <Keybuk> done: mostly been getting notes in order, preparing to meet weekly with James Hunt, catching up post-UDS and upgrading machines to maverick
[16:11] <barry> cjwatson: :)
[16:12] <robbiew> Keybuk: cool, thnx
[16:12] <robbiew> ev: you around?
[16:12] <robbiew> must be fighting protesters at millbank
[16:12] <barry> or joining them?
[16:12] <robbiew> psurbhi is out sick
[16:12] <robbiew> lol
[16:12] <Keybuk> he's on the DX team now, remember
[16:13] <robbiew> JamesHunt: anything to add?
[16:13] <barry> so, designing better protest signs?
[16:13] <robbiew> Keybuk: oh yeah
[16:13] <JamesHunt> firehose is still squirting: having fun reading through wiki.{canonical|ubuntu}.com, starting to get to grips with upstart (lots of reading + playing), wrote up plumbers report, expenses, investigating debootstrap/armel/natty issue for colin/ogra, (I feel like I've read half the web! :), started to look at how to compare bootchart[12] in upstream/ubuntu/debian.
[16:13] <robbiew> barry: he's designing apis to make sign making more uniform :P
[16:13] <JamesHunt> TODO: - meet up with Scott on Friday. Finish reading the web,debootstrap issue, bootchart.
[16:13] <barry> robbiew: :-D
[16:13] <JamesHunt> re dallas, do I need to contact Amity?
[16:14] <robbiew> JamesHunt: great
[16:14] <robbiew> JamesHunt: yes....sorry
[16:14] <robbiew> forgot all about that
[16:14] <JamesHunt> np - I'll call Matt today...
[16:14] <robbiew> JamesHunt: https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Rally/Natty
[16:14] <robbiew> fyi
[16:14] <JamesHunt> thx
[16:15] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty Blueprints
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Blueprints
[16:15] <robbiew> Feature Definition Freeze is Nov 25th
[16:16] <robbiew> So we need to have specs done and work items mostly sorted before then
[16:16] <robbiew> I'm out that week..so the 19th is what I want folks to shoot for
[16:17] <robbiew> I don't think there's much for us to do, as most of our work is maverick carry-over
[16:17] <robbiew> \o/
[16:17] <cjwatson> gotcha, seems fair
[16:17] <robbiew> which is nice for a change
[16:17] <barry> indeed
[16:17] <mvo_> yep
[16:17] <robbiew> Omnipotent Ox will be interesting :P
[16:17] <robbiew> okey dokey
[16:18] <barry> Ornery Otter
[16:18] <robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.04.2 Stuff
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.2 Stuff
[16:18] <robbiew> the next LTS point release is coming...due out in Feb I believe
[16:18] <robbiew> just want to keep it in folks' mind
[16:18] <robbiew> as skaet will soon be on the attack! :)
[16:18] <skaet> :)
[16:19] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:20] <robbiew> sorry..too many conversations
[16:21] <ScottK> Everyone PM robbiew on the count of three ....
[16:21] <robbiew> heh
[16:21] <robbiew> I can ignore quite easily ;)
[16:21] <mvo_>  /ignore *
[16:21] <robbiew> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess has been updated
[16:22] <robbiew> as well as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
[16:22] <mvo_> with the new idea around having a specific sponsoring day that will probably become shorter and shorter
[16:22] <cjwatson> aha, we even have a schedule
[16:23] <cjwatson> neat
[16:23] <mvo_> now someone needs to write a script/bot that adds it to my calendar or mails me in the morning about it :)
[16:23] <robbiew> the relevant email can be found here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/529430/
[16:24] <robbiew> Note the last bullet: * I'd like to start with the first patch pilot on Monday the 22nd.
[16:24] <cjwatson> so that'll be week 4?
[16:24] <robbiew> I think so
[16:24] <cjwatson> or week 1?
[16:24] <robbiew> heh
[16:24] <robbiew> good point...ask dholbach
[16:24] <robbiew> :)
[16:25] <barry> right.  i'm on for week1/day1, but when is "week1"?
[16:25] <dholbach> if you find a better way of putting the schedule, I'm all ears
[16:25] <dholbach> I was thinking of week1 of the month
[16:25] <robbiew> let's use summit :)
[16:25] <robbiew> lol
[16:26] <mvo_> dholbach will just write a django app for it ;)
[16:26] <dholbach> mvo_, I won't :)
[16:26]  * mvo_ hugs dholbach
[16:26] <cjwatson> so there'll be a few dead days at the end of some months?
[16:27] <dholbach> does anybody have a good proposal for fixing this? in the end I ran out of platform team members :)
[16:27] <barry> btw, i can only do reviews (no uploads) so someone with upload rights will still have to come along behind and push the button
[16:27] <ScottK> dholbach: Community team should fill in at the end.
[16:27] <robbiew> barry: we need to get that fixed ;)
[16:27] <barry> robbiew: working on it!
[16:27] <robbiew> ScottK: I like that idea
[16:28]  * ScottK thought you might.
[16:28] <cjwatson> robbiew should fill in at the end. :)
[16:28] <robbiew> lol
[16:28] <robbiew> yeah...you don't want that
[16:28] <robbiew> trust me
[16:28] <dholbach> ScottK, do you mean the Canonical Community team? in that case: all ubuntu-dev members of it are on the schedule already
[16:28] <cjwatson> I think ScottK is trolling you
[16:28] <robbiew> lol
[16:28] <ScottK> dholbach: I did.  Of course not all the people on the schedule are ubuntu-dev.
[16:29] <robbiew> in terms of Canonical developers...they should be, and if not, should be working towards it ;)
[16:29] <dholbach> ScottK, they are
[16:29] <ScottK> Ah.  Forgot some of them have PPU, so they are ubuntu-dev.
[16:29] <dholbach> yep
[16:30]  * ScottK still thinks jcastro could do it.
[16:30] <robbiew> anyway....I want to reinforce that sponsoring is IMPORTANT...not secondary to feature work or bug fixing
[16:30] <barry> i think we should encourage folks to jump in and do reviews
[16:30] <dholbach> barry, totally
[16:31] <dholbach> I added some docs to UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews to explain how it works
[16:31] <barry> dholbach: awesome.  i'll read that over today
[16:31] <dholbach> gracias!
[16:31] <highvoltage> robbiew: +1 :)
[16:32] <robbiew> ;)
[16:32] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
[16:32] <barry> cjwatson: can you kickoff no-change rebuilds of python-apt, gnome-python, dbus-python to pick up py27?  that plus the change mvo just merged should make update-manager work on natty again.
[16:32] <robbiew> JamesHunt: AOB = Any Other Business
[16:33] <ScottK> barry: I was just about to ask about where we were on rebuilds.
[16:33] <mvo_> barry: I'm happy to do python-apt and update-manager (and the other two if cjwatson is busy). I don't think we have auto no-change rebuilds
[16:33] <mvo_> or do we now?
[16:33] <ScottK> mvo_: It's automatic to barry if cjwatson does it when he asks.
[16:33] <barry> ;)
[16:34] <barry> mvo_: thanks
[16:34] <mvo_> heh :)
[16:34] <barry> i thought cjwatson had a script
[16:35] <cjwatson> nope
[16:35] <ScottK> barry: Would you be available to help out with getting python-qt4 and related packages working with Python3?  There's upstream support.  It's ~dh_python3 integration.
[16:35] <cjwatson> I'll do gnome-python and dbus-python, and mvo can do python-apt
[16:35] <barry> ScottK: fwiw, i'm building up packages again in ppa:pythoneers/py27stack4 (for main), but lp has a bug that is making managing that ppa difficult atm
[16:35] <mvo_> oki
[16:36] <barry> cjwatson, mvo_ awesome thanks.  please let me know if there is anything i can do to make this easier, or some other process i should follow
[16:36] <cjwatson> barry: the thing I have a script for is for retrying something that failed to build - otherwise it's literally "bump changelog, make new upload"
[16:36] <barry> ScottK: i can give it a shot. maybe later in the week?
[16:36] <ScottK> barry: Sure.  Please join in #kubuntu-devel when you're ready.
[16:36] <barry> cjwatson: ah, right, gotcha.
[16:37] <robbiew> okay...any REAL AOB or Good News?
[16:37] <robbiew> :)
[16:37] <ScottK> robbiew: Python2.7 is going pretty smoothly so far.
[16:37] <cjwatson> libpipeline's now in unstable+natty, for those who caught my lightning talk
[16:37] <barry> robbiew: wade phillips? :)
[16:37] <ScottK> (there's good news)
[16:37] <robbiew> ScottK: \o/
[16:37] <robbiew> barry: lol
[16:37] <cjwatson> feedback welcome!
[16:38]  * ScottK is  this: --><--  close to being able to ask for boost1.40 removal.
[16:38] <barry> cjwatson: nice!  great talk, cool library
[16:38]  * robbiew can feel the love!
[16:39] <barry> ScottK: once we get a few core packages rebuilt for py27, i think we're going to be in much better shape (i.e. close lots of bugs in one fell swoop)
[16:39] <JamesHunt> cjwatson: gr8! I wonder if we could audit packages to determine a list of potential customers? :)
[16:39] <cjwatson> the security team certainly perked up, so I wonder if kees already has some audit scripts that could be repurposed
[16:41] <robbiew> okay...calling it
[16:41] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:41] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:41.
[16:41] <robbiew> :)
[16:41] <robbiew> you get 20min more of your life back!
[16:42] <barry> robbiew: thanks!
[16:42] <mvo_> thanks
[16:42] <robbiew> no...thank you ;)
[19:00] <highvoltage> boo.
[19:00] <alkisg> Hi all
[19:00] <mhall119> here!
[19:00] <highvoltage> hi, alkisg
[19:00]  * stgraber waves
[19:00] <highvoltage> agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda as usual
[19:01] <highvoltage> stgraber: ah, pleasantly surprised to see you made it!
[19:01] <stgraber> I'm in the middle of another meeting, but yeah I'm here ;)
[19:01] <highvoltage> roadmap with progressy stuff here:
[19:01] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:02] <highvoltage> stgraber told me this morning that we might have edubuntu daily builds again tomorrow
[19:02] <charlie-tca> hm, today's desktop build failed to install
[19:02] <highvoltage> so edubuntu natty is pretty much on it's way to being in full swing development
[19:03] <highvoltage> charlie-tca: the edubuntu build failed to build even :)
[19:03] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:03] <charlie-tca> Hoping for good builds tomorrow
[19:03] <highvoltage> *nod*
[19:03] <mgariepy> i'm here too :)
[19:03] <highvoltage> stgraber, alkisg, mhall119, mgariepy: anything else you'd like to add to the agenda for today?
[19:04] <mhall119> not me, I haven't had a chance to do any edubuntu or qimo work since UDS
[19:04] <mhall119> have the daily's been refreshed from debian now?
[19:05] <highvoltage> I'd like to talk about our icon theme, we currently use Breathe, which is great because it is Human-like and colourful without being too horrible. It's biggest problem though is that it's panel icons aren't that ubuntuy anymore
[19:05] <mhall119> you mean they don't have mono-color icons?
[19:06] <highvoltage> mhall119: well, the archives are sync from debian, dailys are built from the ubuntu archives
[19:06] <highvoltage> mhall119: indeed.
[19:06] <mgariepy> nothing to add
[19:07] <highvoltage> I considered getting involved with the Breathe project to add mono icons using breathe as a fallback theme, but there's a bunch of other updates we'd probably have to do too
[19:07] <highvoltage> well, have to do. like icons that contain old ubuntu (brown) theming and relics
[19:07] <highvoltage> but I've been using Faenza on my netbook for a while and I quite like it, I think it might be suitable for Edubuntu too
[19:07] <highvoltage> http://tiheum.deviantart.com/art/Faenza-Icons-173323228
[19:08] <mhall119> any reason to use a different icon theme than Ubuntu?
[19:08] <highvoltage> I like the squary-rounded icons, and if it was just up to me I'd say we could give it a try
[19:09] <highvoltage> mhall119: our biggest reason so far has been that the ubuntu default icons have been a bit too 'bland' or corporate, and that we want something a bit more exciting
[19:09] <highvoltage> sticking to ubuntu defaults would be easier and less work though
[19:10]  * charlie-tca wants to say Xubuntu is looking at Faenza also
[19:10] <mhall119> who's getting Faenza into the archives?
[19:10]  * alkisg switches to ubuntu defaults in edubuntu installations...
[19:10] <highvoltage> charlie-tca: yay, so you can get it in the archives then ;)
[19:10] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:10] <charlie-tca> there is a ppa already, so it should not be hard
[19:11] <highvoltage> I've used the ppa before but haven't looked at the packages in detail yet.
[19:12] <charlie-tca> I have been running them for about a month now. they look good
[19:12] <highvoltage> I wonder if we should stick to the ubuntu default and just include icon themes in the installation that users might want to use?
[19:14] <highvoltage> hmm, faenza would add around 10MB to the iso
[19:15] <highvoltage> but at least we should come down in size quite a bit anyway
[19:16] <mhall119> oh, I spoke with JR at UDS about the KDE dependency that pulls in everything
[19:17] <mhall119> maco has the same problem with gally
[19:17] <highvoltage> mhall119: that's been fixed, at least :)
[19:17] <mhall119> hopefully it'll be fixed by moving a Recommends to a Suggests in a package
[19:17] <mhall119> oh, it's already fixed?
[19:17] <highvoltage> yep, we didn't even notice it getting fixed (oops)
[19:18] <highvoltage> mhall119: if you check on an Edubuntu maverick DVD, it's actually fine
[19:18] <mhall119> really? hmmm
[19:18] <mhall119> cause when we check at UDS, on my maverick install, it was there
[19:18] <mhall119> weird
[19:18] <mhall119> we checked the kde dependencies, not edubuntu
[19:18] <highvoltage> it got fixed somewhere during the cycle and we didn't notice it. stgraber and I checked it last week to try to get it fixed, and the problem is present on a lucid->maverick upgrade, but not on a clean maverick system
[19:19] <mhall119> ah, ok
[19:19]  * mhall119 upgraded
[19:19] <highvoltage> I'm sure there's still some cruft, but we don't have all of plasma or desktop sessions or stuff like that anymore
[19:20] <highvoltage> for systems that are already installed we won't be able to do anything for really, at least nothing that's not too intrusive
[19:20] <mhall119> I don't think we'd want to anyway
[19:20] <highvoltage> yep.
[19:21] <highvoltage> Edubuntu Council Term is coming to an end in a bit more than a month
[19:22] <highvoltage> we commicated with the CC and sabdfl said that since we're a tight core, it should be ok for the current council to be re-appointed
[19:22] <highvoltage> we should still check who's still available with the current members though, and find out if they are actually available for another term
[19:23] <highvoltage> I e-mailed all the current members a bit more than a week ago, but not everyone has responded yet
[19:23] <highvoltage> we also need to allow for new members to step up
[19:24] <ScottK> Do you have such a thing as "Edubuntu membership"?
[19:24] <highvoltage> I'll poke those that didn't respond already a bit harder today and then announce if we have open positions available
[19:24] <highvoltage> ScottK: yep, although there are only a few edubuntu members really
[19:25] <ScottK> My thought is that if you work on expanding the Edubuntu membership then eventually you'll have enough to have a reasonable election for Edubuntu Council by that body.
[19:25] <highvoltage> ScottK: Ubuntu members can get it very easily though (they basically just have to apply and attend a meeting), so there's not at all a high barrier
[19:26] <ScottK> That's probably enough.
[19:26] <highvoltage> ScottK: indeed. it's something that I wanted to work on the last year, but there's just been so many other high priority things. the next few months should be better for that
[19:26] <ScottK> Sure.  Understood.
[19:27]  * mhall119 would like to apply for Edubuntu Membership this meeting
[19:27] <ScottK> Personally, I think being selected by the relevant community is a better basis for legitimacy than appointment by the CC.  CC appointments should be seen as a temporary work around.
[19:28] <highvoltage> mhall119: the usual process is to add your name to the meeting agenda so that we can make sure we have EC quorum
[19:28] <highvoltage> mhall119: if we can get quorum though, we can probably do it today
[19:28] <highvoltage> nixternal: are you around?
[19:30] <highvoltage> mhall119: we need 4 EC members present, I poked sbalneav on #ltsp, but I'm not sure if he's around, we could probably do an impromptu meeting later for that then
[19:31] <mhall119> no problem
[19:31] <mhall119> I added it to the agenda anyway
[19:31] <highvoltage> great
[19:32] <highvoltage> mhall119: I added twidenash to the Edubuntu site, it's not public yet I just need to fix a CSS problem (that's been pesty to track down), once that's sorted out we'll use it instead of the identica badge
[19:32] <mhall119> cool
[19:32] <mhall119> glad it's working
[19:33] <highvoltage> edubuntu's ubiquity-slideshow is now moved out from the edubuntu-live package and into the proper bzr branch where all the other slideshows live
[19:34] <highvoltage> so tomorrow's daily build (and probably the rest of the week's as well) won't have a slideshow
[19:34] <highvoltage> but that will be fine again when the new slideshow packages are built (I'll poke some people today/tomorrow) to find out how that works
[19:35] <highvoltage> oops, that closing bracket should've come much later :)
[19:35] <highvoltage> we've linked to the edubuntu marketplace from the homepage based on discussions with Canonical at UDS
[19:36] <highvoltage> although we haven't announced it much or linked to it from anywhere else
[19:36] <highvoltage> so we'll probably have to spend some time on that as well at some point
[19:37] <highvoltage> ok, just talked to stgraber (who actually had the conversation)
[19:38] <highvoltage> the marketplace will just list hardware vendors eventually. commercial solution providers, etc will move to a new page somewhere on the ubuntu.com site
[19:40] <highvoltage> the edubuntu seeds have already been modified to include the updates on package selections, so the first edubuntu daily builds will have all of those packages that were approved tentatively for inclusion at UDS
[19:40] <highvoltage> before the first alpha we'll just have to go through them at some point and check which packages shouldn't be there anymore
[19:41] <highvoltage> especially since we might have 2-3 packages having very similar functionality in the initial builds
[19:42] <highvoltage> mhall119: I didn't get hold of nixternal or sbalneav, so we'll have to do that later
[19:42] <mhall119> highvoltage: there's no hurry
[19:42] <highvoltage> and that pretty much concludes what I have to update on :)
[19:42] <mhall119> has anybody heard from dinda?
[19:43] <highvoltage> well, I just saw dinda joining the channel :)
[19:43] <highvoltage> dinda: are you here?
[19:44] <mhall119> guess not
[19:45] <highvoltage> anything else before I hit the end of meeting gong?
[19:45] <alkisg> What did that mail about the bugsquad subscription mean?
[19:45] <mhall119> no for me
[19:47] <highvoltage> alkisg: ah, edubuntu-council was set (incorrectly) to expire from that team after a year
[19:48] <alkisg> Ah, ok
[19:48] <highvoltage> alkisg: so we set it to not expire, and that's what the mail notification said
[19:48] <stgraber> nothing to add here (sorry, was multi-tasking a lot today ...)
[19:48] <highvoltage> ok, seems like that's it then. thanks everybody
[19:48] <highvoltage> *gong*
[19:49] <alkisg> Btw yesterday we setup a google map for greek schools using (ed)ubuntu/ltsp to pin their locations, and already 30 schools did so: http://goo.gl/maps/nOoQ
[19:50] <mhall119> can that be used for non-greek school installs too?
[19:50] <alkisg> This is for finland: http://goo.gl/maps/YiFQ
[19:51] <alkisg> It'd probably be nice if we started a global map...
[19:51] <mhall119> yeah, that's what I was thinking
[19:53] <highvoltage> alkisg: nice!
[19:53] <alkisg> ...or at least if we made a page in the edubuntu site/wiki with links to such maps
[19:54] <highvoltage> alkisg: *nod*