[13:25] <mhall119> is there a way for users to define their own stylesheets in a browser for accessibility changes?
[13:26] <mhall119> kind of like how you can specify font settings that get applied over whatever the page says to use
[13:28] <Pendulum> if things aren't hardcoded, yes. but generally people don't like to use them because they break things and make it all look really ugly
[13:28] <Pendulum> (or at least, it's possible in firefox)
[13:29] <mhall119> ok, so we'd have to provide users a way to enable/disable accessibility stylesheets
[13:29] <nigelb> Pendulum: Possible in a lot of browsers
[13:30] <nigelb> (we are taught that when we learn about precidence of styles :) )
[13:30] <mhall119> nigelb: the question was how to tell the browser to apply the accessibility styles, and when not to
[13:31] <Pendulum> so you could set everything at high contrast but you would have to view every website that way
[13:31] <Pendulum> there's no way to specify just for certain pages (afaik)
[13:31] <mhall119> there are CSS media types for things like "speech" instead of "screen", are these used by browsers?
[13:33] <Pendulum> i don't actually know
[13:34] <mhall119> if so, we can produce different styles for the Ubuntu web theme for these media types
[13:34] <UndiFineD> http://www.devseo.co.uk/blog/view/pure-css-speech-bubbles
[13:34] <mhall119> also not sure if this is implemented in any browsers: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html
[13:36] <UndiFineD> scrool to the bottom of the page on my link to see examples
[13:37] <mhall119> UndiFineD: not what I was talking about
[13:37] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: i can't even read that link as the page is giving me a headache :-/
[13:38] <mhall119> Pendulum: how about something like tihs; http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/alternatives.html
[13:38] <mhall119> it works in Firefox at least
[13:38] <Pendulum> mhall119: your link was fine
[13:38] <mhall119> not chrome, but I'm going to assume people who need accessible stylesheets won't be using chrome
[13:38] <mhall119> is that a safe assumption?
[13:39] <Pendulum> tbh, I have no idea. I don't know what charlie-tca uses and he's generally our best test on accessible style sheets
[13:43] <mhall119> okay, I'll look for him later, but I think if we can make an alternate, accessible style what people can switch to easily, that'll solve a lot of our ally bugs
[13:46] <UndiFineD> http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-css3-speech-20041216/ <-- is this the whole specification ?
[13:46] <Pendulum> yes!
[13:46] <Pendulum> mhall119: I would be totally in favour of that!
[13:46] <Pendulum> mhall119: also, talk to AlanBell because I think he may be willing to help
[13:47] <mhall119> ok, I'm hoping the design team will give us some CSS to use
[13:47]  * AlanBell reads back
[13:48] <UndiFineD> I will spend some time tomorrow to get such a page working
[13:48] <AlanBell> oh, ok. I think where I got on this was that newz2000 was going to let me write an accessible stylesheet and he agreed to probably not reject it
[13:49] <mhall119> lol, good enough for me
[13:49] <UndiFineD> I will put it on my own page, trying to get faisal spoken ;)
[13:49] <mhall119> actually, I think we might want more than one accessible stylesheet for the different profiles
[13:52] <AlanBell> my initial suggestion was to install the simplemente theme as an optional theme
[13:53] <AlanBell> he would prefer to incorporate the features of that theme into the light theme like the navigation and screen reader support. I am not sure how practical that is.
[13:53] <AlanBell> and he talked about a stylesheet loaded through means as yet unknown, which would increase the font size and contrast
[13:54] <AlanBell> mhall119: is reset.css just something from the wiki theme or is it all over the place?
[14:07] <AlanBell> mhall119: problem with getting the browser to select an alternative stylesheet is that it doesn't appear to be sticky, so you go to a page of the wiki, choose your fancy high contrast stylesheet, go to another page and  you are back to square one
[14:16] <mhall119> AlanBell: reset.css doesn't sound familiar to me, so maybe just the wiki theme
[14:17] <mhall119> hmmm, not using the same sheet across pages on the same site would suck
[14:19] <Pendulum> AlanBell: i'm fairly certain there's a way that should be able to make it sticky since other sites can
[14:20] <Pendulum> or are you talking about browser specific style sheets rather than stylessheets offered by the website itself?
[14:24] <AlanBell> Pendulum: I could easily be wrong
[14:25] <AlanBell> I went here in firefox http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/alternatives.html selected one of the other sheets, hit refresh and it flipped back to the initial view
[14:25] <Pendulum> hmm
[14:26] <Pendulum> because the BBC definitely can get it right as the ouch! stylesheets stay across the site when you change pages
[14:26] <Pendulum> and considering how much they've messed up the ouch site otherwise...
[14:28] <AlanBell> I can only see "basic page style" and "no style" on the ouch site
[14:36] <nigelb> mhall119: well, generally user stylesheets are first
[15:13] <mhall119> nigelb: how do users assign sytlesheetS?
[15:14] <nigelb> mhall119: users will have to create it.  Like body {font-size: 20px;} in a mystyle.css and ask browser to use that
[15:14] <nigelb> the exact options vary
[15:14] <nigelb> I've heard some browsers allow per site user stylesheets
[15:49] <UndiFineD> http://userstyles.org/styles/15509
[15:49] <UndiFineD> it is a browser plugin
[15:53] <mhall119> it would be nice if browsers would send a "Enable Accessibility" Header attribute
[18:06] <UndiFineD> ok, this works really well: http://imtranslator.net/Translator-For-Firefox-ImTranslator_v_3_3_5.asp
[18:06] <UndiFineD> just tested it quickly
[18:29] <UndiFineD> mhall119, what can be done is this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/speech_useragent.png
[20:12] <mhall119> UndiFineD: I don't really want to resort to making people setup custom UAs
[20:13] <UndiFineD> no this is a step in between, i would rather offer something correctly
[20:13] <UndiFineD> without changing
[20:14] <UndiFineD> by the user
[23:49] <AlanBell> done a bit more on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/faisal