[03:50] <micahg> can I get an SRU opinion on bug 640987
[03:56] <micahg> jdong: ^^
[03:58] <jdong> micahg: slowly checking out the git tree to pull the patch :)
[03:58] <micahg> jdong: I can pastebin if you like
[03:58] <jdong> sure
[03:59] <micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/532121/
[03:59] <micahg> It's really small, but seems to be an edge case
[04:00] <jdong> the change is pretty subtle
[04:01] <jdong> but hmm reasoning through it, it seems reasonable
[04:01] <ajmitch> ah, the wonders of PHP
[04:01] <jdong> grumble :)
[04:01] <micahg> jdong: ok, I'll prepare an update later this week then
[04:01] <micahg> jdong: thanks
[04:02] <jdong> sounds good
[04:02] <jdong> yeah it's definitely suitable for a SRU
[04:02] <micahg> jdong: ok, so edge cases where the change is minimal qualify?
[04:03] <jdong> for a universe-y SRU, I'd approve of it.
[04:03] <jdong> as long as we're not SRU'ing glibc or fixing a typo in the about box :)
[04:03] <micahg> jdong: heh, ok, thanks
[04:06] <jdong> sure thing. Congrats re MOTU :)
[04:06]  * micahg still needs to do security updates for that package as well
[04:06] <micahg> jdong: thanks :)
[04:06] <jdong> wait, we haven't given up on securing phpmyadmin yet?
[04:06] <jdong> *puts on flamesuit*
[04:07] <micahg> jdong: well, no one seems to be interested, so I was going to try
[04:07] <ScottK> jdong: How secure with anything in php in it's name expected to be.
[04:07] <ajmitch> jdong: no, flames would be suggesting that we remove php5 from the archive
[04:07] <ScottK> micahg: There's an active maintainer in Debian, so it's doable.
[04:07] <micahg> I actually filed a bug a while ago and prepared the patches, but never actually made the debdiff
[04:08] <micahg> ScottK: indeed, but we don't ship the same versions, but wit git format-patch, the patching isn't that bad since they publish the commits
[04:08] <ScottK> micahg: Are we ahead of them?
[04:09] <micahg> ScottK: lenny had 2.11.8.1, squeeze has 3.3.7
[04:09] <micahg> lucid has 3.3.2 and maverick has 3.3.7, so I guess for maverick we can get updates from Debian
[04:09] <ScottK> Lenny and Hardy line up nicely too.
[05:11] <fabrice_sp> micahg, bug #675339
[05:12] <fabrice_sp> I shouldn't have too many channels opened!
[05:12] <micahg> fabrice_sp: I'm sure I have more :)
[05:12] <fabrice_sp> I tend to it under 10, but still a mess!
[05:12] <micahg> fabrice_sp: so, I can look at this, but it might not be until tomorrow night
[05:13] <fabrice_sp> as you want: I was going to subscribe sponsors, when I remembered that you were willing to sponsor something not so long ago
[05:13] <fabrice_sp> np: I'll subscribe sponsors, then
[05:15] <micahg> fabrice_sp: ok, if no one gets to it before me, I'll take it
[05:16] <fabrice_sp> cool. Thanks!
[05:17] <micahg> fabrice_sp: np, I just have to also be careful not to neglect my packageset as well :)
[05:18] <fabrice_sp> sure: you will have more unhappy users if you neglect it than if you don't sponsor something outside;-)
[07:24] <dholbach> good morning!
[11:41] <EvaLuaTe> hello
[11:42] <EvaLuaTe> I have packaged a new program for debian, but it seems to take the debian guys quite long to include it in the repo. Would it be faster if I create a sepparate package for ubuntu and submit that, instead of waiting for the inclusion in debian and then for ubuntu to get it from there?
[11:53] <Rhonda> EvaLuaTe: What was your approach to get it included in Debian? Where and how did you look for a sponsor to upload the package for you?
[11:54] <Rhonda> Also, please notice that Debian is currently in freeze and that the ftp masters are busy with other stuff so processing the NEW queue is rather low on their priorities because it won't get squeeze out any faster.
[11:55] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, I uploaded it to mentors.debian.org and have talked to the people on the mentors mailing list, the thing is though they told me to send an e-mail to the original maintainer (my program is forked from another program, that is already being maintained in debian), and then wait a couple of weeks for him to anwer, to see if he's interested in sposoring/co-maintaining the project
[11:56] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yeah, I understand that, I'm not that big-headed, it's just these waiting times that drive me nuts...
[11:56] <Rhonda> a.) it's mentors.debian.net, b.) who's the original maintainer? Maybe that would be a hint on estimates of responses. :)
[11:57] <Rhonda> Totally can relate to that, sometimes I'm pretty impatient myself. But being impatient won't get you much sympathy usually, so try to avoid that, some people tend to get annoyed by too much pushy mails.
[11:57] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yeah, .net, my bad. The original maintainer is named Andrew Starr-Bochicchio. http://packages.debian.org/testing/misc/parcellite
[11:58] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yes, I know I can get annoying at times, it's just that I hate spending time waiting for a reply on a mailing list, not knowing what the future of that package is, when I could rather spend that time improving the program or doing some more constructive sutff...
[11:59] <Rhonda> Never heard of him. :)
[11:59] <Rhonda> Didn't call _you_ annoying, was meant as general advice. :)
[12:00] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, I said it myself, caus I know I can get annoying at times... :p
[12:01] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, anyway, are you suggesting I should wait for an answer from him too?
[12:01] <Rhonda> bdrung: You are on a team with him for gnome-colors, when had you last heard of Andrew Starr-Bochiccio? :)
[12:01] <bdrung> Rhonda: two month ago
[12:01] <Rhonda> EvaLuaTe: Just checked his DDPO page for packages he maintained and when last activity from him might had been
[12:02] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, I have also checked him up a bit, but I couldn't find any clue as to when he was last active...
[12:03] <Rhonda> EvaLuaTe: Hmm, given that there are three ITPs by him for packages that are already in ubuntu I'm not sure if you are better off when you upload to ubuntu now already …
[12:03] <Rhonda> Be sure to choose a 0ubuntu1 version. :)
[12:04] <Rhonda> Though, they were filed in August …
[12:05] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, hmm. Well, I have uploaded the first version of my package (even though it wasn't perfect) just a couple of hours after filing the ITP, and I wouldn't see why anyone would take longer than that, especially if they are an experienced packager/maintainer
[12:06] <EvaLuaTe> but, I mean, from August to November, it's 3 months at least...
[12:06] <Rhonda> Because an ITP is meant to reduce duplicate efforts. It might take a bit to get to a state that one is confident with uploading.
[12:06] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yeah, but 3 months? :p
[12:07] <Rhonda> Said that, when there is already a package in ubuntu I'm not sure how that should take too long neither, but that's only for him to know.
[12:07] <Rhonda> Private life, don't underestimate that driving force.
[12:07] <Rhonda> I took way too long for uploading gitolite myself because of various different situations, including a fair amount of slacking, but still.
[12:08] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yes, sure. I also have a private life. I work 8 and a half hours a day, and I'm at school around 4 hours each day, and still I could fix all the problems with my package in a couple of days :-)
[12:08] <EvaLuaTe> ok, it's a small package, that's true, but still...
[12:08] <Rhonda> I can't, I have a kid. :P
[12:10] <EvaLuaTe> btw, don't DD's or DM's have any place where to post if they are going to be inactive for some time?
[12:10] <EvaLuaTe> that would be really helpful to know when someone isn't going to answer for some amount of time...
[12:11] <Rhonda> There is debian-private because some people don't like to have it published that their house is empty for a while.
[12:11] <EvaLuaTe> lol
[12:13] <EvaLuaTe> well, if someone isn't going to be active for debian doesn't necesarily mean their house is going to be empty. Anyway, I guess I'll just have to wait for these couple of weeks until the debian guys will know for sure that he isn't active...
[12:14] <EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, thanks for your friendly support, I appreciate it! :-)
[12:16] <Rhonda> The people potentially able to upload for you do have access to the debian-private mailinglist, just in case.
[19:15] <fta> siretart, hi, do you plan to update mplayer in natty? (needed since the ffmpeg update)
[19:17] <kklimonda> ScottK: I haven't had much luck getting atkmm1.6 uploaded into Ubuntu (first ubuntu-sponsors, which I subscribed at Sebestian's request, were unsubscribed and then bug has been invalidated ;) ) but I got access to the pkg-gnome svn so, as soon as I finish reading subversion tutorial, I'll upload it there and ask for sponsorship..
[19:17] <kklimonda> Sebastien* ;)
[19:18] <micahg> ari-tczew: do you need any help with bug 674908?  (wondering why -sponsors is subscribed)
[19:20] <ari-tczew> micahg: I would to wait for review from ubuntu desktop team since I'm not familiar with gnome* related packages, but I would help in merging.
[19:20] <micahg> ari-tczew: yes, but why is -sponsors subscribed?
[19:20] <ari-tczew> micahg: hope that they won't forget about this one
[19:23] <ebroder> ari-tczew: -sponsors should be subscribed when there's a specific task for a sponsor to take, which there isn't in this case, so I don't think they should be subscribed
[19:23] <micahg> ari-tczew: -sponsors is when something is ready for upload (and you already have upload rights for the package), subscribing the desktop team as you did should be sufficient to ask for review without subscribing -sponsors
[19:26] <ari-tczew> micahg, ebroder: if you feel wrong with it, please unsubscribe
[19:27] <micahg> ari-tczew: done, BTW, don't get me wrong, asking for review is good
[19:27] <ari-tczew> micahg: no problem. if you are interested in cleaning SQ, please help with older requests
[19:27] <micahg> ari-tczew: already have :)
[19:27] <micahg> for universe at least
[19:28] <ari-tczew> micahg: one?
[19:28] <micahg> ari-tczew: I think I've reviewed 2 already, and commented on the oldest one
[19:29]  * micahg needs to file a bug that the sponsorships should be sorted in teh order of when -sponsors is subscribed, not when the bug is filed
[19:29] <ari-tczew> micahg: why?
[19:30] <micahg> ari-tczew: a bug could be 5 yrs old and just got a fix added, it should be noted that it's not an old sponsorship request, but a recent one
[20:15] <ari-tczew> micahg: I'm still waiting for clarify procedures of reviewing old bugs to sponsoring. I've been blamed when I unsubscribed sponsors in 2 out-of-dated debdiffs.
[20:42] <ScottK> kklimonda: OK.  Those packages are a bit out of my area of expertise, but if you get stuck, let me know and I'll figure out how to push.
[20:42] <ScottK> Thanks
[20:49] <micahg> ari-tczew: I don't have a general answer, but if you'd like to discuss the individual cases later, maybe we can figure out why
[21:53] <bdrung> micahg: patches are welcome! gimme some python code that takes a lp bug and returns a date when ubuntu-sponsors was added, and will do the rest to get the column "time in queue"
[21:54] <micahg> bdrung: heh, maybe after I learn a little more python :)
[21:54]  * micahg can file the bug at least
[21:54] <bdrung> micahg: IIRC there is already a bug for it.
[21:54] <ebroder> bdrung: Hmm, I think I know how to do that...
[21:55] <bdrung> ebroder: show me code! :)
[21:55] <ebroder> bdrung: I'll look at it when I get home from work
[21:55] <ebroder> or maybe the next time I'm waiting for a build...
[21:56] <bdrung> ebroder: then please compile eclipse or openjdk or libreoffice ;)
[21:56]  * micahg wants to fix the ARM FTBFS for eclipse
[22:00] <kklimonda> rm -rf eclipse fixes all issues I have with it ;)
[22:01] <micahg> kklimonda: one of my goals this cycle is to make sure my packageset builds on ARM as well
[22:02] <micahg> eclipse is the only one broken at the moment
[22:03] <ajmitch> micahg: how much diskspace does eclipse take to build?
[22:03] <micahg> ajmitch: idr, several GB
[22:03] <ajmitch> that must be problematic
[22:03] <ScottK> ajmitch: If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
[22:03] <ajmitch> as well as a lack of RAM
[22:03] <ajmitch> ScottK: just trying to get an idea of how much space needs to be available for builds in general
[22:04] <ScottK> ajmitch: qt4-x11 wants ~8GB of space to build.
[22:04] <ajmitch> how have you managed to build that on the boxes you have?
[22:04] <ajmitch> building on NFS?
[22:04] <micahg> Firefox and Thunderbird need about 4GB
[22:04]  * ScottK once tried (Gutsy era) to build eclipse on a system with 256MB of ram.  It didn't end wall.
[22:05] <ScottK> ajmitch: I bought a 16B usb stick and mounted it as /var/cache.
[22:05] <ajmitch> ScottK: right
[22:05]  * ajmitch wonders if building on NFS is viable for those ARM boxes
[22:06] <ScottK> apachelogger's icecc magic is working so I'm actually doing a test build of qt4-x11 on arm right now sharing the build across three boxes.
[22:07] <ajmitch> I'm still undecided about the best way to do builds - I'd like to have sbuild & lvm
[22:07] <ebroder> bdrung: Fine, you got me. The code should look roughly like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/532617/
[22:07] <ScottK> For this other set the number of potential users is smaller, so we can be a bit more wreckless.
[22:07] <ebroder> bdrung: It's not foolproof - in particular it seems to miss bugs where -sponsors was subscribed a long time ago
[22:07] <ebroder> And it should probably be genericized in obvious ways
[22:08] <bdrung> ajmitch: 3 GB on disk (and 2 GB ram)
[22:08]  * ajmitch has a 4GB empty file to be used as a loopback LVM volume for some testing of that
[22:09] <Quintasan> ScottK: his icecc magic works? I'd like to test that out on my boxes too, care to pastebin me your config?
[22:10] <ScottK> Quintasan: This config is very specific to the situation in question.  He's got the hooks on LP somewhere.
[22:13] <ScottK> ebroder: Please add work items for any backports related tools work you plan in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-backports-n-bof
[22:13] <Quintasan> ScottK: thanks, I'll bug him about it sometime.
[22:14] <ScottK> ebroder: I'm really interested in seeing backports requests integrated into the current sync-helper script.
[22:14] <ebroder> ScottK: Ok, I'll try to make that a priority
[22:14] <ebroder> bdrung: Oh, also, you can't get a bug's activity collection if you're connected anonymously. Does the queue have credentials when it runs?
[22:14] <ScottK> ebroder: Thanks.  I think that would help a lot with latency of request processing.
[22:15] <bdrung> ebroder: yes
[22:15] <micahg> ScottK: well, I think a separate tool is better (or at least a config option to choose) just because the AA might only have time to do one or the other
[22:15]  * micahg might be totally off here
[22:16] <ScottK> micahg: I agree there should be a switch, but having it integrated into the same tool so it is part of their normal work flow is important.
[22:16] <ajmitch> micahg: adding it as an option would probably be preferable, just to separate them
[22:16] <micahg> ScottK: ok, that sounds good, I can see where sometimes Debian imports would take precedence over backports
[22:16] <ScottK> micahg: Certainly.
[22:17] <ScottK> ebroder will make us something wonderful.
[22:17]  * micahg loves the idea of syncing to -backports after FF :)
[22:17]  * ajmitch needs to get the other side of things done - a standard requestbackport script
[22:17] <ebroder> ajmitch: I'll give you that WI when I add my own to the blueprint
[22:17] <ajmitch> ebroder: it was in the gobby doc, wasn't it?
[22:18] <ebroder> Yeah, but those didn't make it onto the blueprint
[22:18] <ajmitch> right
[22:18] <ScottK> Because the guy who slammed out the blueprint was really tired when he did it.
[22:18] <ScottK> Feel free to complain to him next time you see him.
[22:18] <cjwatson> micahg: running sync-helper normally takes about 5-10 minutes
[22:18] <cjwatson> micahg: I wouldn't worry about expanding the time it takes
[22:19] <micahg> cjwatson: oh, wow, cool :)
[22:19] <ajmitch> Will do, then I'll have to buy him a beer for doing all the other stuff
[22:19] <ScottK> (in the mean time, please sign up for stuff you will/might do)
[22:19] <cjwatson> and that's *after* it's built up a little bit.  running it every working day, maybe a couple of minutes tops
[22:19] <cjwatson> this is why syncs happen quickly these days
[22:20] <highvoltage> hi! I need some help.
[22:20] <highvoltage> I want to swallow a pill that will make me know C
[22:20] <highvoltage> anyone know where I can get one?
[22:20]  * micahg sees if there's one in the Matrix
[22:20] <ajmitch> highvoltage: put the K&R C book into a blender, mix well, swallow
[22:21] <cjwatson> the C99 standard wouldn't hurt either :)
[22:21] <highvoltage> hmm, I have such a book but it is 12762km away :/
[22:21] <cjwatson> K&R second edition is more readable but it doesn't hurt to have a bit of C99 familiarity these days
[22:22] <cjwatson> highvoltage: how basic is your lack of understanding?  people seem to either get pointers or they don't, but perhaps your problem is higher-level than that?
[22:24] <cjwatson> fta,micahg,chrisccoulson: BTW I'd just like to say, I love Firefox 4.  Thanks for the ubuntu-mozilla-daily packaging!
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> cjwatson, you're welcome.
[22:25] <micahg> cjwatson: chrisccoulson has been working tirelessly on it since the close of Maverick
[22:25] <cjwatson> my wife has a bit of a "UI change is BAD mkay" attitude so I haven't managed to convert her yet
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> i'll be uploading FF4.0 to natty by tomorrow morning
[22:25] <cjwatson> ooh
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> or maybe this evening, if i can get it tested before i go to bed
[22:25] <cjwatson> I'm very impressed that I basically no longer have performance issues
[22:25] <micahg> cjwatson: we'll have beta 7 in the firefox-next PPA if you'd like some stability as well
[22:26] <micahg> for pre-natty systems
[22:26] <cjwatson> ooh, sounds like a plan.
[22:26] <cjwatson> might upgrade to natty soon anyway though
[22:28] <highvoltage> cjwatson: well, basically, my understanding doesn't get much better than scripting languages. also, I learned BASIC when I was very young and it screwed me up for life. :)
[22:29] <highvoltage> (so yes, no pointers for me)
[22:31] <cjwatson> well, after basic syntactic stuff, ramming pointers into your head is the next absolutely necessary bit
[22:31] <cjwatson> using whatever metaphor is accurate and helps most
[22:33] <micahg> http://www.xkcd.com/138/
[22:35] <highvoltage> micahg: nice, I point that at people regularly :)
[22:46] <achiang> highvoltage: here's another vote for K&R 2nd edition. it's quite readable, IMO
[22:46] <cjwatson> also make liberal use of POSIX, which is online
[22:51] <achiang> highvoltage: this essay may also inspire you - http://norvig.com/21-days.html (Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years)