=== jjohansen1 is now known as jj-afk [10:11] * persia peers about [13:00] * davidm wonders what persia is looking for? [13:00] #startmeeting [13:00] Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander. [13:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:00] bot is laggy this morning [13:00] roll call ? [13:00] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101116 [13:00] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101116 [13:00] If your not here, say I [13:00] * ogra_ac added some topics today [13:00] I [13:01] the indentation of bullet lists is broken :'-( [13:01] with the new theme ... [13:01] :-( [13:01] * NCommander didn't notice [13:01] I am not here [13:01] <- *doesn't use the standard theme :-(* [13:02] oh good, davidm is not here, we can skip the meeting :-) [13:02] * NCommander runs [13:02] nah, we cant [13:02] * NCommander pokes persia [13:02] damn it, I was tlaking with him less than an hour ago [13:02] meh [13:02] anyway [13:02] [topic] Action Item Review [13:02] New Topic: Action Item Review [13:03] [topic] ogra to track down why NCommander's specs aren't on the tracker and to have that fixed [13:03] New Topic: ogra to track down why NCommander's specs aren't on the tracker and to have that fixed [13:03] Resolved. ogra told me I have to have them set for Approved [13:03] done, davidm needs to approve for natty [13:03] (i would have done it but i dont have the lever) [13:03] I also have one that I just noticed that needs to be approved for natty [13:03] approver needs to do it [13:04] davidm: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-arm-gles-in-ubuntu :-) [13:04] didn't got on my list when i send you to approve because asac created it just before uds [13:04] davidm: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-userland-subarch-detection & https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-natty-improved-subarch-detection [13:04] :-) [13:05] anyway [13:05] userland is fine [13:05] [topic] NCommander to supervise pre-installed omap4 images for Alpha 1 [13:05] New Topic: NCommander to supervise pre-installed omap4 images for Alpha 1 [13:05] We hav eimages! [13:05] * ogra_ac did that [13:05] indeed [13:05] nice work :-) [13:05] yes, but only through an evil hack lool did [13:05] heheh [13:06] ogra_ac: there's another type of hack? [13:06] i hope we can keep it until the bug is fixed [13:06] ogra_ac: what's the hack for reference sake? [13:06] Bug 674146 [13:06] Launchpad bug 674146 in dpkg (Ubuntu Natty) "dpkg segfaults during debootstrap on natty armel" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674146 [13:06] ugh [13:06] I saw that one [13:06] yes [13:06] ugly one [13:06] that's a hack [13:06] interesting compiler behavior [13:06] images build now though [13:06] x-loader is also FTBFS. I looked at it for a bit but didn't get anywhere [13:07] NCommander, my job [13:07] rsajdok, NCommander BP taken care of [13:07] I can help fixing x-loader too [13:07] Qt should get resolved sometime this week. [13:07] * NCommander is thorugh most of his email and is just summerizing [13:07] so I think we're actually on track to meet alpha 1 [13:07] rsalveti, would you take that, and also re-integrate lools changes to the packaging ? [13:07] ogra_ac: no news from qt with full neon support [13:07] (that's a first) [13:07] ogra_ac: sure, np [13:07] rsalveti, i'll re-upload the static no-NEON build on friday [13:08] ogra_ac: nice [13:08] ScottK, ^^^^ [13:08] unfortunately the neon automatically detection is broken upstream [13:08] yes [13:08] nobody ever tested it [13:08] and likely in natty as well [13:09] so it's not something that will be easily backported [13:09] sure [13:09] rsalveti: qt has a few growing pains when dealing with various ARM configuraitons. [13:09] though i hope upstream will have fixed it within natty timeframe [13:09] what do we do about natty though ? [13:09] NCommander: interesting that nokia pays to be well supported at arm :-) [13:09] keep it broken or do the same static fix until upstream tells us its fixed ? [13:09] rsalveti: no comment. [13:10] davidm, ^^^ any suggestion ? [13:10] ogra_ac: static fix? (I'm blanking on what your referring to) [13:10] NCommander, read the bug :P [13:10] ogra_ac: for natty I'd say we could go with a similar fix [13:10] we don't have the post release regression on it [13:10] Bug 664431 [13:10] Launchpad bug 664431 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Maverick) "QT on armel is built with NEON by default" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664431 [13:10] oh [13:10] that bug [13:11] ugh [13:11] ogra_ac: Can we publish NEON .debs somewhere for the people wher are using Qt on NEON devices? [13:11] so we're ok to disable it for now, and then enable it as an additional feature [13:11] explains why KDE segfaulted on Dove [13:11] * NCommander coughs [13:11] ScottK, as soon as davidm's PPA spec is implemented we can offer a PPA [13:11] ScottK: I can put it on a ppa and post the link [13:11] or what rsalveti says [13:11] can get that action [13:11] ScottK, plan for natty is to have public arm PPAs for everyone [13:12] The PPA spec is in progress but it's going to take a couple of months to get the hardware all in [13:12] so you should then just be able to do it yourself [13:12] davidm, what about neon ? [13:12] (see above) [13:12] ogra_ac: I understand, but I'm concerned about the regression for people with NEON devices running Qt (of which I know there are some). [13:12] ScottK, yes, understood, rsalveti will do a build in our team PPA and make that public [13:13] NCommander, action ^^^ [13:13] davidm: I looked at the spec, and I have some places where I need to make changes, but I need to talk with IS and the LP gearheads to make sure all my ducks are in a row before I'll have the implementation part finalized for you [13:13] BTW, my latest Qt build finished in less than 12 hours with three systems sharing the build via icecc. [13:13] [action] rsalveti to create NEON enabled Qt build and post it publicly [13:13] ACTION received: rsalveti to create NEON enabled Qt build and post it publicly [13:13] ScottK: Qt works great with icecc. OO.o, not so much :-( [13:14] ogra_ac: then lets push the same fix for natty, at least for now [13:14] gah, i had another point i missed to add to the meeting page [13:14] we'll have more people using it as ac100 is all around [13:14] rsalveti, yes, i wanted to hear that from davidm [13:14] :) [13:14] i think we both agree, but i want some higher authority to blame ;) [13:15] haha :-) [13:15] fair enough [13:15] * NCommander coughs andmoves on [13:15] [action] ogra_ac and rsalveti to talk to davidm on proper approach to fix Qt [13:15] ACTION received: ogra_ac and rsalveti to talk to davidm on proper approach to fix Qt [13:16] [topic] Special Items [13:16] New Topic: Special Items [13:16] [topic] canonical-mobile was completely deleted and replaced by canonical-arm [13:16] New Topic: canonical-mobile was completely deleted and replaced by canonical-arm [13:16] why is this on here? [13:16] This is the Ubuntu Mobile meeting, not the Canonical ARM one. [13:16] well, we can change ;-) [13:16] (incidently, the work item tracker needs to be changed to track ubuntu-armel, and NOT canonical-arm) [13:17] NCommander, ubuntu-mobile doesnt exist anymore [13:17] ogra_ac: so the name of the meeting is an artifact [13:17] that can be fixed, its the Ubuntu ARM Meeting now :-P [13:17] the next two points would have been indended suppoints [13:17] *sub [13:18] That's how they appear here. [13:18] and are the actual bulletpoints [13:18] GrueMaster, not with the new theme [13:18] ogra_ac: some of us have custom themes set [13:18] anyway [13:18] ogra, neon needs to be in libs not hard compiled in [13:18] davidm, thanks ! [13:18] so: there might be some fallout, please everyone check if i.e. PPA access for important PPAs is missing etc. [13:18] GrueMaster: can you look at the bug lists, and make sure we have ubuntu-armel properly subscribed? [13:18] until there is no hardware that does not support neon that is how it has to be [13:19] (it should be in all places, since that team wasn't renamed, but ...) [13:19] right [13:19] please everyone check their PPA accresses etc [13:19] since there might have been team PPAs we could access through canonical-mobile membership [13:19] if you find anything, please ping me [13:19] NCommander, action for all ^^^ [13:19] ogra_ac: wrong venue for ~canonical-mobile/~canonica-arm stuff. [13:19] Seriously [13:20] [topic] cloosing down of the ubuntu-mobile mailing list [13:20] New Topic: cloosing down of the ubuntu-mobile mailing list [13:20] do we have an ubuntu-arm(el) mailing list? [13:20] no [13:20] ogra_ac: [ Ain't a hack and ain't that evil! ] [13:20] no yet [13:20] lool, heh [13:20] Just a taste thing [13:21] we wont have an arm ML [13:21] doesnt make sense [13:21] adn with the vanishing of ubuntu-mobile the ML needs to go [13:21] lool: I'm guessing evil in France is different than evil in the rest of the world ;-) [13:21] davidm wants to close it down soon [13:21] * NCommander runs [13:21] why don't we have a m-l? [13:21] I mean, an arm one [13:21] ogra_ac: I'd like a mailing list for armel (or at least ports in general) [13:21] there is virtually no traffic except spam on the ML [13:21] what for would we need one ? [13:21] davidm: well, that and the mailing annoucements [13:21] we dont have an amd64 one either [13:22] nora a sparc or hppa one [13:22] ogra_ac: cause amd64 is a mainline arch [13:22] the ubuntu-devel is more then good enough [13:22] powerpc has one [13:22] ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-devel-discuss should serve our needs [13:22] so? [13:22] fair enough [13:22] Who's tasked with shooting the u-mobile list dead? [13:22] davidm [13:22] I can file the rt ticket to kill it [13:23] NCommander, just make sure to send the meeting announcements to -desvel now [13:23] [action] davidm to archive the ubuntu-mobile mailing list [13:23] ACTION received: davidm to archive the ubuntu-mobile mailing list [13:23] ogra_ac: will do [13:23] action ? [13:23] [action] NCommander to send mailing list annoucements to u-devel [13:23] ACTION received: NCommander to send mailing list annoucements to u-devel [13:23] :) [13:23] * NCommander doesn't quite type that fast [13:23] :-P [13:23] btw, i added another bullet point after meeting time [13:23] [topic] New meeting time [13:23] New Topic: New meeting time [13:23] (please reload wiki if you havent) [13:24] Since we've recently had some regulars in this change and/or relocated, I think we should look at moving the metting [13:24] the metting ;) [13:24] (mett is chopped meat in german ;) ) [13:24] (plus those of us on the pacific time or further west have been shafted now for the last 6 months, someone else needs this pain) [13:25] I'm proposing we simply move the meeting by 12 hours [13:25] * rsalveti doesn't like that [13:25] well, lets ask persia [13:25] NCommander, I recomend we shelf this untl next week [13:25] 12h ?!? [13:25] davidm: fair enough [13:25] thats 2am in europe [13:25] ogra_ac: yeah, that would be 17:00 here [13:25] And we need to look at all times not a 12 hour shift [13:25] persia is looking into available timeslots with the idea of being more TI friendly. [13:25] * ogra_ac refuses to have two nightly meetings [13:26] right, so here's what we do [13:26] GrueMaster, TI is mainly Nice nowadays [13:26] We had a discussion about this last night. [13:26] [action] everyone to put proposals of new times (and days) on the wiki [13:26] ACTION received: everyone to put proposals of new times (and days) on the wiki [13:26] so it should be european workhours [13:26] [action] davidm + persia to get input from TI on recommended times [13:26] ACTION received: davidm + persia to get input from TI on recommended times [13:26] And then next week we're determine when is the best time. [13:26] k? [13:26] ++ [13:27] moving on :-) [13:27] [topic] the return of openoffice on arm images due to desktop team merging the seeds [13:27] New Topic: the return of openoffice on arm images due to desktop team merging the seeds [13:27] just a warning ;) [13:27] * NCommander goes to cry in the corner with this topic [13:27] for the OO.o lovers among us [13:27] Please, don't let Oracle touch me. It burns! [13:27] -desktop team will merge the seeds [13:27] and only build a single image [13:27] we might or might not differ in that [13:27] ogra_ac: sounds like we need to get spice seeds this cycle then to prevent this. OO.o + ARM sucks [13:28] i have a workitem on their spec to research that [13:28] or at least an architecture specific exclusion [13:28] I believe it was announced that we will be moving to LibreOffice. [13:28] Sounds like we are going to need an ARM seed to me [13:28] NCommander, we might need to build desktop images this cycle [13:28] ogra_ac: well persia came up with a possible lead to find the missing notes so we might get lucky [13:28] davidm, i wouldnt like that if we can avoid it [13:28] ogra_ac: *wince*. Bad things happen when we try and remove OO.o from desktop [13:28] not anymore [13:28] ogra_ac: would or wouldn't? [13:28] wouldnt [13:28] I don't want OO back on the build it takes to much room [13:29] i'd like to go with one seed [13:29] I don't want OO.o cause we're almost out of cows to sacirife to keep it going [13:29] I'd love to go with one seed if it meets our needs, which OO does not [13:29] but the question is how technically hard that is [13:29] ogra_ac: I'll take this action item [13:29] davidm, on desktop images ? [13:29] Also we don't have mono working still [13:29] and research if we can sanely exclude OOo if we build desktop in fair of something (anything) else [13:29] davidm: OOo doesn't depend on mono (yet), just java [13:29] ogra, not at the moment [13:29] NCommander, preferably i dont want us to have the extra work to keep seeds in sync [13:29] though I think openjdk is kinda foobar'ed [13:30] ?? [13:30] NCommander, but the new audio player for desktrop does I think [13:30] openjdk is fine [13:30] ogra_ac: what I'm hoping is we can do one seed, but get OOo off our images [13:30] we can [13:30] thats no prob [13:30] ogra_ac: I'll look into it, I have to touch germinate anyway for other stuff [13:30] we fixed that in lucid [13:30] ogra_ac: oh, is it more of a question "do we want to exclude it?" [13:30] * GrueMaster shudders at the QA implications of OO.o on the images. [13:30] NCommander, right [13:30] NCommander, and accroding to davidm we dont want OO.o [13:30] GrueMaster: we'll have to sacrifice one of the bodies to keep the beast happy [13:31] and we don't want mono apps [13:31] we need to take care for OO.o anyway [13:31] if its on the images or not [13:31] seperate problem but a problem non the less [13:31] so i dont see the issue why it matters if we have it on the desktop images [13:31] If there is no contractual requirement for Canonical-provided images, and if there's no demand for it on community-provided images, then I'm happy to leave it off [13:31] ogra_ac: out of site, out of mind ;-) [13:31] NCommander, we still need to take care for it [13:32] ogra_ac: although granted, with the migration to libreoffice, at least we can drop most of the patches since we won't have issues with upstream [13:32] its a main app we are bound to make sure works [13:32] ogra_ac: yes, but if its on the image, we have to make sure it works well :-P [13:32] * ogra_ac doesnt see much difference between libre and openoffice yet [13:32] i assume for natty the code wont much differ [13:32] ogra_ac: its more that we won't have issues with getting upstream to accept patches [13:33] we always have to make sure it works well [13:33] Sun's upstremaing guidelines were ... painful [13:33] ah, yeah, patching should be easier [13:33] ogra_ac: indeed [13:33] I'm of leaving it off the images [13:33] i dont really care [13:33] *for [13:33] i wouldnt mind having it on desktop images [13:34] not on netbook though [13:34] davidm: do we care about OOo being shipped? We can exclude it on a per-architecture basis and re-add it on a per image basis (if spice seeds materialize) if we need it [13:34] Currently we are not planning on desktop images [13:34] (its not clear yet if we *will* build desktop at all) [13:34] right [13:34] For ARM netbooks OO was overkill [13:34] yes [13:35] ogra_ac: I think we should stick a pin in this discussion and only revisit of desktop images materialize [13:35] davidm: s/was/is/g [13:35] i just would like to sick as close to the desktop seed as possible for images [13:35] NCommander, good idea [13:36] I think we're all agreed that we're not putting OO.o on the netbook images short of a contractual requirement to do so (or strong community demand which I consider unlikely) [13:36] BTW [13:36] In response to earlier feedback [13:36] no, no OO.o on netbook, in any case [13:36] [action] NCommander to eBay his soul to fix mono on ARM [13:36] ACTION received: NCommander to eBay his soul to fix mono on ARM [13:36] :-) [13:36] heh, who would bid on that ? [13:36] ouch. [13:36] heheh, true [13:37] or do you plan a buy now offer ? [13:37] and you're brave to try to fix mono [13:37] With friends like you, who needs enemies? [13:37] :_p [13:37] heh [13:37] we love you, you know that :) [13:37] rsalveti: meh. mono isn't a re-implementation of Windows COM. It at least has comments in the code base [13:38] in any case rhythmbox will stay in the supported set of apps [13:38] NCommander: but is a pain :-) [13:38] ogra_ac: all abusers say that :-P *runs* [13:38] so we can happily go on shipping it [13:38] rsalveti: I did some work on mono on ARM last time it blew up [13:38] so I have a general idea of what might be going wrong [13:38] oh can, I'm happy I'm not the one to fix it [13:38] tomboy is the only mono app we currently have [13:38] *oh, ok [13:38] oh crap [13:38] damn it [13:38] in our images [13:38] hmm, and gwibber possibly [13:38] why didn't I drink coffee earlier, I just enlisted for a world of pain :-/ [13:39] ogra_ac: we want it fixed anyway :-/ [13:39] we do [13:39] though [13:39] mono been mostly foobar'ed since karmic(?) [13:39] please coordinate with linaro [13:39] none of us could really look into it lucid [13:39] specifically with slangasek's team [13:39] ogra_ac: has anyone in linaro looked into it? [13:39] no, but the linaro platform team cares for such stuff [13:39] no one is interested, I believe [13:39] so work together with them [13:40] i pointed slangasek to it last release, but i think nobody had time over there [13:40] so i guess they appreciate if you work on it [13:40] ogra_ac: where's the existing mono is broken bug [13:40] use their resources if you need to though [13:40] no idea from the top of my head [13:41] let me look that up after meeting [13:41] * GrueMaster looks. [13:41] or that ;) [13:41] right [13:41] anyway [13:41] moving on, I don't want to run over [13:41] [topic] Standing Items [13:41] New Topic: Standing Items [13:41] [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html [13:41] LINK received: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html [13:41] (mono) Bug #561874 [13:41] Launchpad bug 561874 in f-spot (Ubuntu) "NULL Reference exception in F-Spot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561874 [13:41] [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm-alpha-1.html [13:41] LINK received: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm-alpha-1.html [13:41] did GrueMaster take the action for fixing the assigned bugs list above ? [13:42] the WI list isnt complete yet [13:42] needs another tracker run [13:42] Will do. Actually I need to ping marjo for this. [13:42] GrueMaster, thanks [13:42] NCommander, action ^^^ [13:42] [action] GrueMaster to fix assigned bugs [13:42] ACTION received: GrueMaster to fix assigned bugs [13:42] (mono) Bug #619981 [13:42] hrm [13:42] Launchpad bug 619981 in banshee (Ubuntu Maverick) "Banshee crashed while sitting idle on omap4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619981 [13:42] That action item seems like it could be worded better :-) [13:42] lol [13:43] well, i dont mind [13:43] you should say "assigned to ubuntu-armel" ;) [13:43] Yea, and you want them fixed...when? [13:43] alpha 1 please [13:43] GrueMaster: tonight preferable ;-) [13:43] :P [13:43] [topic] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html [13:43] New Topic: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html [13:43] that will break with the next run [13:43] k [13:43] * GrueMaster increases rent, decreases heat upstairs. [13:43] [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag) [13:43] New Topic: Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag) [13:44] canonical-mobile doesnt exist anymore [13:44] NCommander, that needs cleanup [13:44] GrueMaster: don't worry, I have all your hatred aimed at me to keep me warm [13:44] no mpoirier or lag anymore [13:44] yay, we fixed the issue of lag on the internet! [13:44] we moved the lag to linaro ;) [13:45] that explains so much [13:45] [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster) [13:45] New Topic: QA Status (GrueMaster) [13:45] Nothing to report. Checkbox customization is WIP. [13:45] [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander) [13:45] New Topic: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander) [13:45] not quite a diaster as when I left on VAC, thanks ogra [13:46] I don't have time to wait for the right point in the meeting as I'm about to leave here. I wanted to make sure people knew that Bug #675347 is now the blocker for Qt/KDE stuff on arm and hopefully you can convince someone to fix it soon. [13:46] Once Qt is fixed, KDE should just build with a few minor whacks. ScottK is handling this mostly [13:46] Launchpad bug 675347 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "volatile int causes inline assembly build failure" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/675347 [13:46] from ScottK [13:46] (he pinged me in PM) [13:46] ogra_ac: thanks [13:46] so thats one biggie [13:46] Right, other than that, the list is pretty simple, and not too many ARM specific in main [13:47]