=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic [11:14] klattimer: hi, hey man, the ibus indicator, it's an appindicator one you've done right? [11:14] dbarth_: yeah [11:15] dbarth_: please don't tell me that the patches have been unapplied during the build [11:15] that was happening to me repeatedly when trying to build the package [11:19] dbarth_: ? [11:19] klattimer: don't think so, no [11:19] klattimer: it was just to double check the nature of the indicator; mpt was not aware a new appindicator version of the ibus one was available [11:19] yeah, that's what I fixed [11:19] in theory [11:20] I haven't been able to build the package though [11:20] so many weird dpkg-buildpackage errors [11:20] but the python code was replaced in the system and tested [11:20] and the patch built from that [11:20] so everything *should* be working well [11:21] cool [11:21] mpt: ^^ see, almost good news ;) [11:21] dbarth_: I'm rebuilding the package now to test [11:21] from upstream tarball and all seems to be working OK [11:21] although GIR causes hell too [11:27] klattimer: did you get news from kenvandine yesterday on the build? [11:27] klattimer: seb128 was also asking [11:31] yeah [11:32] dbarth_: he left me a message in the channel and via email === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann [14:56] klattimer: greetings, dbarth_ has pointed me in your direction about language icons [14:56] sladen: hi [14:56] sladen: well, the first part isn't about language icons [14:56] klattimer: although I suspect/fear that it's more a case of you teaching me first :) [14:56] it's about language bar/proposed input [14:56] can you install ibus from maverick proposed and configure it with a couple of input methods? [14:57] klattimer: I can... could you give me some high-level context first [14:57] sladen: once you've got ibus up and running you should be able to select an input window and then start typing [14:58] you notice that a) the "language bar" appears with some icons on it in the bottom right [14:58] and b) with many input methods a "proposed input" window appears with some suggestions [14:58] klattimer: right, after clicking 4 x pointless dialogues, I get a keyboard in the gnome-panel [14:58] heh [14:58] klattimer: English ispell [14:59] sladen: english wont show up the proposed input [14:59] pinyin is probably the best [14:59] we need these two floating windows to have a "unity" look about them [14:59] klattimer: anyone, keep talking, so that I have an idea of the end goal [14:59] so it matches the overall desktop [15:00] klattimer: so this is an issue with the full-screen one-app-at-a-time setup in Unity, and needing to have siultaneous floating input method windows [15:01] sladen: well, it's not just about one app at a time [15:02] effectively just a new visual style for those floating windows [15:02] klattimer: do I need to be running anything other than maverick-proposed/ibus-indicator ? [15:02] me and njpatel will work out what we're going to do about positioning them [15:02] I just want them to look prettier :) [15:02] sladen: nope, the maverick proposed ibus is the only thing you'll need [15:03] that should be released soon [15:03] but the current release in the repos is very broken [15:03] proposed actually works so you can see the windows I'm talking about [15:07] klattimer: it appears I can't on _this_ machine, which is on 10.04 [15:07] sladen: ah, you'll need 10.10 [15:07] :) [15:08] update dude [15:08] klattimer: that's the other machine, which is not the one I'm using just now [15:08] sladen: ok, cool [15:08] klattimer: so moving on, there is $some proposed window layout idea [15:08] well I'm sure you know what to do when you're in front of it [15:09] sladen: exactly the same layout [15:09] klattimer: which is what is trying to be demonstrated [15:09] just more in tune with the general UI design [15:09] ...rather than a small floating box with a star in it? [15:09] at the moment it's just gtk background colour and doesn't sit very well on the unity desktop for someething which will be mostly a permanent floating window for many users [15:10] sladen: there'll be more icons than just the star once you're on maverick [15:10] klattimer: nod [15:10] but still, yeah basically the existing look is pretty lame [15:11] klattimer: so what are you thinking, more of a iPhone press-and-hold-a-key popup? [15:12] klattimer: or something a kin to the semi-transparent notify-osd popups? [15:12] klattimer: (sorry, I know looking in person would give me the answer) [15:13] klattimer, sladen (excuse the fact that I haven't every used ibus), does this popup window require/allow user input through the mouse? [15:13] every* [15:13] ever* [15:13] wow [15:14] sladen: more like notify osd style [15:14] njpatel: yeah, both of them I believe require mouse input [15:14] but maybe it's just the language bar [15:14] cool, then it'll probably take the quicklist style [15:14] the proposed input window is keyboard driven for the most part [15:15] but I think it still supports mouse [15:15] I should check [15:15] notify-osd style is meant to signal "you can't touch this" (with a picture of mc hammer in your head) [15:15] njpatel: I meant visual style [15:15] whereas there is a specific overlay style [15:15] the interaction as it stands is perfectly fine atm [15:15] klattimer, so do I [15:16] klattimer, we have a specific style for overlay windows that can accept input, is what I mean to say, sorry for the confusion. Notify-OSD styling is a overlay window that can't accept input [15:16] njpatel: well, either way, I don't want the interaction changed at all, just the visual appearance of it [15:16] so it's got a dark back ground, rounded corners and looks nice [15:16] yeah, no change to interaction [15:16] well, it'll have a dark background with dots and a bit of shine, rounded corner and will look lovely ;) [15:18] njpatel: that's exactly what I was thinking :) [15:18] just like the tooltips on the dock/launcher [15:19] klattimer, the cairo code that gives the correct still will be in the unity plugin, so hopefully just be able to use that [15:19] style* [15:19] bloody hell I can't type today [15:19] ah, excellent [15:19] except... [15:19] the windows will probably still need to be drawn with gtk [15:19] ... [15:19] sure, but just override the gtkwindows paint right? [15:19] I can port the cairo cuteness to gtk without worries though [15:19] yep [15:19] njpatel: yeah [15:20] sladen: the other thing is, we need all the existing m17n icons, and any other icons associated with the various ibus packages re-done to match the symbolic icons style [15:22] klattimer: njpatel: so is there a brand/style/guideline already defined for "floating windows that accept input"), or is this the first time it's come up and therefore it's the issue? [15:23] sladen: I think this is pretty much the first time it's come up [15:24] sladen, the quicklist windows are the first that use the style, I'm 95% that other overlay windows that accept input should use the same style, but there's no harm in making sure with chaotic [15:24] sladen, to that end, the tooltips on the latest unity are styled like notify osd, as it was confusing because you can't actually click them until you right-click to get a quicklist [15:27] tedg: ping? hi Ted [15:28] checking your email about the orphan indicators [15:28] it's a good point, so i'm switching datetime and session to klattimer, to reflect the uds planning [15:28] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-dx-n-indicator-datetime [15:29] dbarth_: nice to know [15:30] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-indicator-session [15:30] well, that's why i'm doing the switch here [15:31] dbarth_: :) [15:31] klattimer: session is mostly bug fixes ataicr, while datetime is nicer piece with eds integration [15:31] Good morning dbarth_ [15:31] tedg: good morning [15:31] Uhm, so what is happening to keyboard then? [15:32] keyboard is on hold [15:32] i chatted about it a bit with mpt this morning [15:32] yeah we need a better idea from the users [15:32] So then what are we doing for Natty? The AppIndicator ones still? [15:32] tedg: yeah atm [15:32] I thought they had a few bugs... do those need to be fixed? [15:32] ibus at least is working now [15:33] with gsd layout indicator I think we just need to work on the icon situation [15:33] not sure how to get flags into a theme package at the moment though [15:33] we'll need to figure that out, but it should be easy [15:33] tedg: quickly, it's the result of the uds session; the designs (mpt's, klattimer's and even mccan) where not matching the expectations of the people we had in the room [15:34] Fixing the title icons can be done regardless of the rest of the design, though [15:34] we had people from different regions of the world, and the main use cases they helped us understand were, well different [15:34] mpt yes, there are a couple of elements that can be fixed, and can be targetted for natty [15:34] So are we going to mail mpt to China for a few weeks? :) [15:35] atm i see that more as a set of bug fixes, ie the workload is not at the same level as a merge/rewrite like was envisionned initially [15:36] tedg: you're kidding, but I feel we learned a lot during this session; at least i did [15:36] ;) [15:36] so ok, those 2 indicators are on the map now [15:37] Yeah, I'm just concerned that we don't have a plan to solve it eventually. If it needs to be redesign, sure, makes sense. But we need a plan to get the expertise so that it can be redesigned. [15:37] tedg: the other thing i'm worried about is the appmenu-gtk / libappindicator code merge [15:37] For the most part, assuming mpt is going home for Christmas, it's on his way ;) [15:37] since bratsche won't be available much to do it; something i had also in mind for karl [15:38] dbarth_: its already on my list of things I've been asked to work on [15:38] but it's a major chunk and something i'd prefer you guys to talk about a bit more before we commit to doing it [15:38] klattimer: ah, that was already in the air [15:38] oh yes, mt was already around when we made that list [15:38] It honestly should be "cut-and-paste" coding-wise. But then it's just test, test, test, test :) [15:38] test is the keyword [15:39] tedg: that was what I was thinking too [15:39] and we know from maverick that tesdt is not easy here [15:39] so I'll poke session bugs for the next few days, then move onto the merge after? [15:39] klattimer: session bugs i think can wait a bit [15:39] klattimer, It'd be good to start looking at datetime as well, that's a reasonably large development task. [15:40] k [15:40] klattimer, Make sure that you're comfortable with the design. [15:40] so guys, which one first? [15:40] you also have that im-context thing at the moment on your plate [15:40] dbarth_: true [15:40] tedg! You're awake! [15:40] so i'd suggest not taking too much at the same time [15:40] well, maybe another small feature or list of bugs; and im-context (the bigger dev. task) [15:40] klattimer, The one thing that I haven't figured out is how to make the backends "plugable" in that it'd be nice if we provided an easy way for Akanadi support. It may just have to be an #ifdef thing :-/ [15:40] dbarth_: getting the indicator code merged will let app developers fix their indicators [15:40] once the im thing is under control, you can take another big one; that'd be my recommendation [15:40] as signalling click is a major issue for them [15:41] klattimer, Yeah, that's not as much merging the GTK parsing code. [15:41] tedg, there are a few blueprints assigned to you that aren't approved or accepted, and I don't know who is supposed to do those things. [15:41] unless you get back on fire like the other day ;) in which case, i'll throw a couple more blueprints [15:41] mpt, Well, the only ones I'm assigned are the dbusmenu ones and indicator-messages. [15:41] dbarth_, can we drop mutter im context? and concentrate on natty? [15:42] dbarth_: the other day was the end of a long drawn out fist fight with ibus, eventually he got tired and I managed to land a KO [15:42] klattimer, But, yes, we need that and another couple appindicator features as well. I'm trying to prioritize those as early as possible, but I dont' think most appindicator developers are using dev releases... [15:42] njpatel: yeah, i think it's not a high prio; the only reason i was considering it was as a way to clear the ground and see what to do for natty [15:42] unless I face an opponent as well trained at messing my day up as ibus [15:42] it's mostly just getting it done [15:42] klattimer: ;) [15:43] dbarth_, i think they will differ enough that we could get away with just working on natty (i.e. writing the module loaders or just using gtk-im, if possible) [15:43] klattimer, heh [15:43] right, let's try to conclude tomorrow on that [15:43] but i guess you're right [15:43] tedg, you're also assigned to and . [15:43] mpt: datetime, not anymore [15:44] mpt: karl just got offered it [15:44] mpt, yes, datetime will be klattimer. I imagine application will end up a group effort. [15:44] ok [15:44] mpt, klattimer is doing the appmenu-gtk integration. for instance. [15:44] mpt, And I believe that kamstrup is doing the GDBus port, etc. [15:46] tedg, what application? [15:46] seb128: indicator-application blue print [15:47] tedg: not sure for the gdbus port though [15:47] ok [15:48] still shows tedg as Drafter and Assignee [15:49] mpt, We just decided like 20min ago -- give us some time :) [15:57] mpt: oh really [15:57] which one? datetime? [16:01] application menu however is not updated, right [16:02] dbarth_, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-dx-n-indicator-application [16:18] kenvandine, Seems that I can't create a new Facebook account with the new Gwibber. Gets to a page saying "SUCCESS" but doesn't do anything after that. [16:21] tedg: could you take a look at bug 673302 ? [16:21] Launchpad bug 673302 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "appmenu-gtk breaks dynamically created Emacs Gtk+ menus (affected: 6, heat: 40)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673302 [16:21] tedg, that is the facebook allocation problem [16:22] tedg, i promise i will make that work better when that fails... soon [16:22] tedg: can I for example disable appmenu integration for emacs? [16:23] kenvandine, Ah, okay, even with the latest? [16:23] yes [16:23] tedg, until more people get the update in lucid and maverick [16:23] kklimonda, Yeah, you just can do UBUNTU_MENU_PROXY= emacs [16:23] :/ [16:24] kenvandine, Can I have your magic API key that works ;) [16:24] their are versions in -proposed for lucid and maverick now that fixes it... :) [16:24] hehe [16:24] tedg, i would rather you suffer until you rename indicator-* [16:24] my personal vengeance [16:24] :-D [16:25] This is the funny thing. Half the people complain when you name things explanatory names -- the other half complain when you name things fun names. [16:25] Hmm, Kaleo isn't in this channel. You two should have a death match. [16:26] i am fine with the names now... but i do still get confused sometimes [16:26] it's just too many packages with similar names [16:26] like i would prefer me-indicator, messages-indicator, etc [16:26] still descriptive :) [16:27] Shouldn't it be broadest category to more specific? Eh? Like com.ubuntu.indicator.messages ? === bratsche is now known as bratsche-afk === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann === bratsche-afk is now known as bratsche