[13:51] <bac> Launchpad Reviewers meeting now at 1500UTC -- one hour later
[14:59] <gary_poster> apologies, bac, at sprint
[15:00] <gary_poster> or training, or whatever it is
[15:00] <bac> #startmeeting
[15:00] <danilos> bac, I am only going to lurk, sorry
[15:00] <MootBot> bac, There is already a meeting in progress.
[15:00] <bac> gah
[15:00]  * gary_poster chuckles
[15:00] <bac> Who is here today at our new Bat Time?
[15:00] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:00] <jcsackett> me
[15:00] <leonardr> me
[15:00] <deryck> me
[15:00] <adeuring> me
[15:00] <abentley> me
[15:01] <benji> I
[15:01] <salgado> me
[15:01] <jelmer> me, but I'm also browsing through my dictionary to find out what "Bat Time" means :-)
[15:01] <abentley> jelmer: Reference to 60's batman show.
[15:01] <sinzui> me
[15:01] <benji> jelmer: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=same%20bat-time%2C%20same%20bat-channel
[15:02] <bac> :)
[15:02] <jelmer> abentley, abentley: ah, heh :-) Thanks
[15:02]  * deryck sings nah nah nah nah Bat----man!
[15:02] <benji> deryck: ha!
[15:02] <bac> topic - Agenda
[15:02] <sinzui> The Green Hornet was cooler
[15:02] <bac> * Roll call
[15:02] <bac>  * Agenda
[15:02] <bac>  * Outstanding actions
[15:02] <bac>  * Mentat update.
[15:02] <bac>    * Salgado (ui)
[15:02] <bac>    * StevenK (code)
[15:02] <bac>  * New items
[15:02] <bac>    * Benji joins code review team mentored by EdwinGrubbs.
[15:02] <bac>    * jcsackett becomes a mentat (sinzui)
[15:02] <bac>  * Peanut gallery
[15:03] <bac> *  Sinzui to investigate making lint check for the Storm 'in' gotcha
[15:03] <bac> sinzui: progress?
[15:03] <sinzui> No, fix, but I did make progress. I removed two of the false reports in our code
[15:04] <bac> cool
[15:04] <sinzui> oh, pocket-lint will be in natty
[15:04] <bigjools> me
[15:04] <bac> that's good sinzui
[15:04] <bac> * bac to work with mars regarding a slow introduction of new reviewer points regarding the ArchitectureGuide. (undone)
[15:05] <bac> as it says, i've not done this.  i'll try to get up with mars and get action on that one.
[15:05] <bac> topic - time change
[15:05] <henninge> me
[15:05] <bac> glad everyone got the email.  i hope this time works.  i heard no complaints.
[15:06] <bac> * Mentat update.
[15:06] <bac>    * Salgado (ui)
[15:06] <bac>    * StevenK (code)
[15:06] <jtv> me
[15:06] <bac> how's it going salgado?
[15:06] <salgado> after some time without any UI reviews, last week I did some
[15:06] <salgado> it's going fine with me
[15:08] <bac> the last time i checked with stevenk he was still having a hard time getting enough reviews to do.  i'll find out later if that is still the case.
[15:08] <bac>   New items
[15:08] <bac>    * Benji joins code review team mentored by EdwinGrubbs.
[15:09] <bac> thanks for starting the process benji.  and thanks EdwinGrubbs for mentoring
[15:09] <bac> * jcsackett becomes a mentat (sinzui)
[15:10] <bac> jcsackett: do you have a mentor?
[15:10] <jcsackett> sinzui, i believe.
[15:10] <sinzui> I will mentor
[15:10] <bac> yay
[15:11] <bac> so when these guys finish up we'll have all canonical lp devs as mentors again
[15:11] <bac> er, reviewers
[15:11] <sinzui> no
[15:11] <sinzui> well
[15:12] <sinzui> I think mister wgrant could start reviewer training when he starts
[15:12] <bigjools> +1
[15:12] <allenap> me
[15:12] <bac> perhaps we should give him a week to get settled
[15:12] <sinzui> Then I will have some small satisfaction that my nomination was accepted, though it took almost a year
[15:12] <jelmer> he's already been doing some very good post-merge reviews :-)
[15:13] <sinzui> bac: why? he already has rf setup
[15:13] <bac> topic - other stuff.  anyone have anything?
[15:13] <sinzui> I have an apology to make to the bugs team
[15:14]  * allenap is puzzled
[15:14] <sinzui> I thought the death to all doctests mantra at Prague was crazy, but I just read the bug stories and doctests yesterday I now understand you need to kill kill kill
[15:15] <deryck> heh
[15:15] <bigjools> and theirs are even better than soyuz... go figure
[15:15] <deryck> thanks for saying so sinzui!  I've felt I must be crazy that no one sees the insanity I see.
[15:15] <allenap> Yeah, don't read those doctests.
[15:16]  * jtv reviewed doctest changes today and is still trying to stem the bleeding
[15:16] <sinzui> bigjools, soyuz has lots of unittests I can extend. I just delete the contradicting doctest.
[15:16] <deryck> we've made some good progress in the last few months converting to unit tests, but it's taking some time.
[15:16] <deryck> still much to do
[15:16] <bigjools> but the hideousness runs deep
[15:17] <bigjools> I did get rid of my most hated doctest recently.  It felt reeeeeal good.
[15:18] <sinzui> If I report 50 bugs about doctests, do we get to close them during the bugjam
[15:18] <bac> anything else but kvetching about doctests (which is a fine thing to do)?
[15:18] <jtv> Well one thing here
[15:19] <bac> the chair recognizes the gentleman from BKK
[15:19] <jtv> I see lots and lots of code slip by reviewers that shouldn't.
[15:19] <jtv> Are we still instilling and reinforcing the habits that we expect everyone to stick to by themselves?
[15:20] <jtv> Coding standards mostly.  Today I saw an import in the wrong place for no reason, an empty docstring, etc.—and that's without looking at very much.
[15:21] <abentley> jtv: I am close to being able to track a line of code back to the review where it was approved.
[15:22] <jtv> Well I'm not _really_ looking to hunt down & beat up the reviewers; I just say that.
[15:22] <jtv> Although that is a cool capability, I must say.
[15:22] <bac> jtv: you found these problems in the tree or in a review?
[15:22] <jtv> Both, for today's cases.
[15:23] <jtv> Of course there were dozens of other little gotchas in the tree.
[15:23] <sinzui> I think automated changes cause these issues. I have seen a lot bad style in our modules that I attribute to changes made after the review, such as requests to clean up a name in the whole tree.
[15:23] <jtv> What stings is that most of them are recent.
[15:23] <jtv> Some of that, too, yes.
[15:24] <jtv> Also I think "make lint" no longer tracks down committed-but-unlanded changes?
[15:25] <abentley> jtv: IME it does.
[15:25] <bac> if all changes are committed 'make lint' does the right thing, i think.
[15:25]  * jtv will watch it more closely
[15:25] <abentley> jtv: If there are any uncommitted changes, it just lints those.
[15:25] <jtv> That's what it used to do; I just noticed an unexpected "no changes detected."
[15:25] <jtv> On a branch that was unlanded and full of goodies, of course.
[15:26] <abentley> jtv: But if all changes are committed make lint should lint all changes.
[15:26] <jtv> Yes, that's what I thought.  I'll keep an eye out.
[15:26] <sinzui> jtv, make lint does commit changes that differ from parent
[15:27] <jtv> The parent in this case was not one of the usual ones, I think.  Maybe that caused it.
[15:27] <bac> jtv: if you find code that has been landed that is clearly a problem i think we should discuss it with the reviewer, just so he'll be aware of what was missed or to determine if it happened post review.
[15:28] <bac> if you'd rather not have that conversation i'll be glad to do it.
[15:28] <jtv> Fair enough.  I just got the impression that there's a gap between the speed/thoroughness tradeoffs I like and the ones the team as a whole has evolved to.
[15:28] <bac> not finger pointing but for learning.
[15:28] <jtv> Yes, that's important—the baseball bat was just a joke.
[15:29] <bac> is there anything else to discuss today?
[15:30]  * jtv sits down
[15:30] <bac> thanks for coming
[15:30] <bac> #endmeeting
[15:30] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:30.
[15:31] <abentley> jtv: FYI bzr log -r mainline:annotate:$FILENAME:$LINENO will find the revision where the line was merged into trunk.
[15:31] <jtv> thanks bac
[15:31] <jtv> abentley: cool!  Thanks.
[15:31] <abentley> jtv: Now we just need to be able to find merge proposals according to revision id.
[15:32] <jtv> abentley: can't find "annotate" in "bzr help revisionspec"… where do I read more about it?
[15:33] <abentley> jtv: it was added recently.  You'll need a newer bzr.
[15:33] <jtv> ah, the ol' rat race
[15:33]  * jtv used to watch version numbers avidly, once upon a time