RAOFHm.  Looks like it's using the right mode by default; can you pastebin the output of “xrandr”?00:00
rickspencer3RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/533288/00:02
RAOFIs 1680x1050 the native mode of your monitor?00:03
rickspencer3I honestly do no know00:03
RAOFIf you know :)00:03
rickspencer3it sounds about right00:03
RAOFIt does sound about right, yeah.00:04
rickspencer3I mean, it's widescreen00:04
Sarvattyeah it is00:04
Sarvattis there some kind of compiz beer goggles plugin enabled by default now in natty?00:05
rickspencer3well, it's blurry without desktop effects too, if that's what you were asking Sarvatt00:06
Sarvatteverything looks fine there, I'm stumped :)00:06
RAOFMaybe a picture of the display would be useful?00:06
RAOFThe obvious answers have been exhausted.00:07
nisshhrickspencer3, check to make sure you have font AA turned on after the upgrade?00:07
nisshhor has that been covered already?00:07
Sarvattcan you describe blurry any more? is there anything thats still sharp?00:07
rickspencer3nisshh, font AA? I usuall use subpixel smoothing00:08
rickspencer3Sarvatt, let me look at some pictures00:08
nisshhrickspencer3, ah, thats what i meant, subpixel smoothing00:08
rickspencer3Sarvatt, so, hi-def pictures of my dog seem clear00:09
Sarvattyeah I mean things like just fonts being blurry, are icons too big or anything? or is the whole screen just completely blurry00:09
rickspencer3but fonts, not so much00:09
rickspencer3and icons in nautilus look blurry too00:09
rickspencer3this is all very subjective, of course00:09
RAOFMaybe that's an icon theme problem?00:10
nisshhrickspencer3, maybe it went crazy and munted your monitor settings?00:10
RAOFnisshh: No; it looks like he's got the right resolution set.00:10
Sarvatthis monitor settings are fine00:10
nisshhRAOF, i didnt mean resolution, i mean his monitors built in settings, you know, the ones you access with the little buttons on the monitor?00:12
RAOFMaybe.  But it seems like the problem is at a level above X, as the dog pictures look OK.00:12
rickspencer3oh jeez, I just reset my monitor back to factor settings, and it looks even worse!00:13
Sarvattrickspencer3: is there a sharpness setting in the monitor options or anything?00:14
rickspencer3Sarvatt, yeah, I already twiddled that00:14
nisshhah ok, i was wrong then :)00:15
nisshhrickspencer3, when i said "that might be the problem" i didnt mean "reset your monitor" :)00:15
rickspencer3images are definately crystal clear00:17
rickspencer3RAOF, if it's not xorg, than what can be controlling my font rendering?00:17
nisshhrickspencer3, if i said "your monitor is fault" would you smash it? :)00:18
nisshhrickspencer3, cups?00:18
rickspencer3it's not my monitor00:18
RAOFWhere shall we start? :).  Probably with gnome-settings-daemon, and the Appearence capplet.00:18
RAOFThat should be where font settings for GNOME are applied.00:19
nisshhRAOF, could it be CUPS maybe?00:19
nisshhor cupsd?00:19
RAOFnisshh: How could the printer daemon be messing with display fonts?00:19
RAOFI don't see a plausible causal link.00:20
nisshhRAOF, oh, thats a printer daemon? i thought it had something to do with fonts :)00:20
* nisshh slaps himself00:20
RAOFnisshh: Well, it does indirectly.  You print using fonts :).  CUPS == Common Unix Printing Service00:20
rickspencer3RAOF, it seems that desktop effects are not getting applied :/00:20
nisshhRAOF, right00:21
RAOFrickspencer3: So, is gnome-settings-daemon running?  Try starting it up.00:21
nisshhanyway, im heading out for a while, ill see you lot later00:21
rickspencer3bye nisshh00:21
* nisshh waves00:21
RAOFThat would appear to not have been a sterling success?00:25
rickspencer3RAOF, haha00:25
rickspencer3well, I killed compiz, and then couldn't reselect my terminal to start it again00:25
rickspencer3a  bit of a self-inflicted wound00:25
RAOFOh, yeah.  Switch to VT1 and run metacity :)00:26
rickspencer3anyway gnome-settings-daemon is running00:26
RAOFAnd fonts are still weird.00:28
rickspencer3so compiz is running00:28
rickspencer3but I'm getting no effects!00:28
rickspencer3maybe I need some plugins00:28
RAOFYou'll probably be hitting the “still don't have 0.8 → 0.9 settings transition logic”, there.00:29
RAOFI've just started playing with Appearance→Fonts, and none of the hinting options take effect.00:30
rickspencer3RAOF, you mean the ones under "Rendering"?00:30
rickspencer3they dramatically change for me when I switch between them00:31
rickspencer3but they are all still blurry00:31
rickspencer3I wonder if sub-pixel rendering is not actually being applied00:31
RAOFOr, rather, Monochrome works but everything else is the same.00:31
rickspencer3oh weir00:31
rickspencer3for me, sub-pixel smoothing works, everything else is the same00:32
rickspencer3Monochrome and Best shapes are different00:32
rickspencer3I mean and Best Contrast00:33
rickspencer3Best Shapes has no effect00:33
rickspencer3I wonder if sub-pixel smoothing is not being applied00:33
rickspencer3so it's essentially just turning off other options00:33
kklimondakenvandine: ping?00:34
RAOFYou could also go a-playin' with /etc/fonts/conf.d00:34
RAOFBut GNOME apps should be taking their settings from the appearance capplet.00:34
rickspencer3the problem is, if I try to log a bug, it will be maddenly vague, and no one could help will be in front of my hardware :/00:35
* rickspencer3 plows ahead00:36
rickspencer3Unity time00:36
RAOFYeah, give it a whirl.00:36
rickspencer3what could possibly go wrong?00:37
* rickspencer3 considers backing up data00:37
* rickspencer3 damns the torpedos00:37
brycehrickspencer3, what's your dpi set to?00:37
rickspencer3bryceh, where do I see that?00:38
brycehSystem -> Appearance -> Fonts -> Details00:38
RAOFIn the details button of fonts.00:38
brycehmm, that's what it should be00:38
rickspencer3well, the subpixel smoothing is definitely having an effect00:39
brycehwe have carried a distro patch that sets subpixel smoothing defaults.  If that patch got dropped it could cause behaviors like this00:40
RAOFI think that patch still survives; my machines don't suffer from blurry fonts.00:40
rickspencer3bryceh, the default settings seemed to be correct00:40
rickspencer3I think I'll need to live with this until a domain expert hits the bug00:41
rickspencer3"fonts are blurry" doesn't seem to be much go go on00:41
RAOFAre the icons still blurry, too?00:42
RAOFIt's possible that a photo of your screen will trigger an aha.00:42
rickspencer3a bit yeah00:43
rickspencer3RAOF, good point, I'll log a bug tomorrow00:52
rickspencer3apt-get is stuck on Unpacking replacement libglewmx1.5 ...01:01
rickspencer3not my night01:02
kenvandinekklimonda, pong01:02
chrisccoulson_rickspencer3, be thankful your dmesg isn't full of scary messages like "[Hardware Error]: Machine check events logged" ;)01:03
kklimondakenvandine: do you have a moment?01:03
rickspencer3chrisccoulson_, heh01:04
rickspencer3I've been upgrading this machine since Karmic, I think01:04
rickspencer3maybe I should try a clean install01:04
chrisccoulson_time for a reinstall ;)01:04
chrisccoulson_yeah :)01:04
chrisccoulson_i'm not sure if my issue is a real hardware problem or a bug :/01:05
rickspencer3oh well01:05
kklimondakenvandine: at the bottom of this document there is a (partial) desktopcouch-glib api for Vala,does it make sense: http://pastebin.com/GsMCFNBt ?01:05
chrisccoulson_my laptop just can't hack the pace ;)01:05
kenvandinekklimonda, sure01:06
kklimondakenvandine: actually does my idea of enforcing document type per database "connection" make sense?01:07
kenvandineno :)01:07
kklimondakenvandine: I know that's how I work - putting different documents into single database have been more trouble for me then it was worth01:08
kenvandineprobably true01:08
kenvandinebut i think some people will expect it to handle different document types01:08
kenvandinebut i assume that is want more work to deal with ?01:08
kklimondakenvandine: they could always drop to couchdb-glib api01:09
kenvandineas long as you told them that01:09
kenvandinethrow an exception that it isn't supported, etc01:09
kklimondakenvandine: that's what Destkopcouch.Document.get_json_object is there for - in couchdb-glib they can do whatever they want..01:09
kenvandineoh... wait01:10
kenvandinehow about dealing with things like loading design documents and views?01:10
kenvandineand retrieving those01:10
kenvandinethose are document types01:10
kklimondathe problem is Desktopcouch.Response.get_documents () "inherits" document's type from Desktopcouch.Database01:11
kklimondaDesign Documents are a pita in general :)01:11
kenvandinenot familiar with get_documents...i use get_records01:12
kenvandineand  put_record01:12
kenvandineoh... but you aren't dealing with the records api01:12
kklimondawell, get_documents would return a GList of Desktopcouch.Document01:12
chrisccoulson_wow, i can't believe my daughter is a whole year old in a few hours01:12
kklimondaI do, in couchdb-glib :)01:12
kklimondaI have CouchdbResponse.get_rows ()01:13
kenvandinei almost exclusively use the records API01:13
kklimondawhich returns a GList * of JsonObjects01:13
kenvandineyou should talk to aquarius tomorrow01:13
kenvandinehe could probably tell you very quickly if it would be a bad idea or not01:13
kklimondawill do :)01:14
kenvandinethx :)01:14
kklimondathe problem really boils down to the fact that CouchDB doesn't like static languages :)01:14
kenvandinei am glad i am not hacking on that stuff :)01:14
kklimondathanks for your insight01:14
kenvandineit really is very python friendly though :))01:15
micahgchrisccoulson_: congrats :)01:15
chrisccoulson_heh, thanks :)01:15
kenvandinechrisccoulson_, time flies man!01:15
kklimondachrisccoulson_: how the time flies :)01:15
kenvandinei can't believe my oldest is almost 801:15
chrisccoulson_it does, this year has gone pretty quick!01:15
kklimondachrisccoulson_: I could swear it was yesterday ;}01:15
chrisccoulson_yeah, it feels like it ;)01:15
bcurtiswxnot sure who to ping for SRU but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/67555503:29
ubot2Launchpad bug 675555 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy SRU maverick 2.32.1 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]03:29
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
nigelbbcurtiswx: I think pitti would be best bet.  He'll wake up in a few :)03:53
bcurtiswxyeah, i'll talk with seb128 and didrocks.. they have been helping me out lately03:54
nigelbbcurtiswx: I'm not sure if we put new upstream release into -proposed though03:54
nigelbBUt then, not very familar with desktop team procedures now :)03:55
bcurtiswxyeah, it would go into proposed first to be tested and verified that it works all around (after my personal testing of course)03:55
nigelbbcurtiswx: no, I mean, we generally don't update new release into older release (at least most of the time)03:56
nigelberr, new upstream version into older release03:56
bcurtiswxnigelb, yeah.. maybe my wording was wrong.. upstreams at 2.91.2  but this is 2.32.1 a new upstream release to a stable release03:56
nigelbI think there needs to be more documentation03:57
ubot2Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates03:57
bcurtiswxyeah i know about that.. lol03:57
nigelbOne thing I hate about Sru - documentation03:58
nigelbtakes more time than it takes to get the thing working ;)03:58
bcurtiswxidk what to expect, as this is my 2nd SRU request04:00
nigelbheh, all will be good :)04:01
kklimondagood morning07:20
didrocksgood morning!07:45
jasoncwarnerlate afternoon ;)07:48
didrocksjasoncwarner: long day for you, isn't it? :)07:49
jasoncwarnerdidrocks: I took a break in the middle to go and buy a car in the big city. It didn't quite pan out ;)07:54
jasoncwarnerand now I am supposed to talk to pitti, but he keeps telling me it is one of those german vacation days... ;)07:55
didrocksjasoncwarner: hehe, I like this kind of break « taking a break to buy a car ». Sounds so natural :)07:55
didrocksoh really?07:56
didrocksnow so the question is: is it the kind of german vacation that seb is taking too or not :)07:56
jasoncwarnerdidrocks: :)07:57
pittiGood morning (holiday today)07:58
didrocksGuten Morgen pitti07:59
devildanteBonjour tout le monde :)07:59
didrockshey devildante08:00
devildantehey didrocks :)08:00
pittihey didrocks08:02
mvoits a german vacation day?08:26
* mvo is all ears08:26
devildantemvo: I think so08:26
mvohey devildante! nice to see you :)08:27
devildantemvo: right when I also have vacations08:27
devildantemvo: and nice to see you too :)08:27
mvodevildante: unusual at this time of day - aha, vaaction08:27
=== artnay_ is now known as artnay
devildanteheh :)08:27
mvodevildante: there is a branch from you pending, right :) I want to get that in !08:28
devildantemvo: zeitgeist-unused-applications?08:28
mvodevildante: yeah! you fixed the one comment I had about it ages ago08:29
mvodevildante: so I feel a bit bad for letting it slip :/08:29
devildantemvo: np, cause mpt just disapproved it :p08:29
mvodevildante: but now that UDS and vacation is over I will be quicker again (fingers crossed)08:30
mvodevildante: oh?08:30
devildantemvo: see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/software-center/zeitgeist-unused-applications/+merge/3923608:31
devildantemorale of the story: always don't do something without mpt's consent, or you might get bad surprises :p08:34
mvodevildante: ok08:40
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone!08:55
kklimondahey chrisccoulson08:56
chrisccoulsonhi kklimonda, how are you>08:56
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
didrockshey chrisccoulson, kklimonda!08:57
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks, how are you?08:57
kklimondachrisccoulson: I think I've slept of Json tonight but otherwise I'm good :)08:57
didrockschrisccoulson: I'm good, thanks! And you?08:57
chrisccoulsonheh :)08:58
chrisccoulsondidrocks - i'm not too bad thanks. my daughters birthday today!08:58
kklimondachrisccoulson: what have you bought your daughter for birthday? A mascot penguin? ;)08:58
didrockschrisccoulson: oh nice :)08:58
chrisccoulsonwe got her a smart trike thingy to push her around on outside08:59
chrisccoulsonalthough, the weather outside is hideous ;)08:59
kklimondalovely European climate ;)09:00
chrisccoulsonhmmm, weird build failure: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59221143/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.firefox-4.0_4.0~b8~hg20101117r57626%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~hardy_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz09:01
chrisccoulsonerror: #error "Architecture not supported" - ok ;)09:02
devildantechrisccoulson: what does ~umd1 there mean?09:07
devildanteah, thanks :)09:08
devildantechrisccoulson: speaking of which, when is beta7 coming to the mozilla ppa? I want my super-fast js engine :p09:09
chrisccoulsondevildante, once we've uploaded it to natty09:09
chrisccoulsonwe've hit a snag with the new packaging layout though, which has blocked that09:09
chrisccoulsonabrowser uses can't upgrade properly09:09
devildantechrisccoulson: so no more ppa for me, all hail natty :)09:09
kklimondaI'm using dailies from mozilla ppa and I don't see much improvement :/09:09
devildantechrisccoulson: thanks for the insight :)09:10
chrisccoulsonabrowser really needs to go away and die09:10
chrisccoulsonit starts faster ;)09:10
chrisccoulson(much faster than ff3.6, anyway)09:10
kklimondaI have it running for as long as I'm logged in so that doesn't matter to me ;)09:11
devildantechrisccoulson: true09:11
kklimondaand ff4 + flash x64 beta is not the best combination in the world - flash crashes al the time :/09:11
kklimondagood I only use it to watch some youtube ;)09:11
chrisccoulsonfresh profile is about 1 second here, and a session restore is about 3seconds until fully rendered and usable tabs09:11
chrisccoulsonwhich beats the old version by many seconds!09:11
devildanteabout flash09:12
devildanteI have some weird "bug" with fullscreen09:12
kklimondaflash is really one big bug09:13
devildantethat "bug" is really a feature in my case, though09:13
devildanteremember when you wanted to change the sound volume, notify-osd triggers and flash reverts from fullscreen?09:13
chrisccoulsonyeah :)09:14
devildanteit seems it doesn't occur to me anymore09:14
chrisccoulsonhmmm, perhaps that was fixed in flash09:14
chrisccoulsonbut that was 100% flash bug anyway, so it must have been ;)09:14
devildantechrisccoulson: but I get a white screen for 0.01s09:14
devildante= blink09:15
devildantebut it's fixed as I see09:15
devildanteI don't think flash was updated in natty, did it?09:15
chrisccoulsonit was dropping fullscreen on the FocusOut/NotifyGrab event it got when pressing the volume buttons09:15
chrisccoulsonwhich it shouldn't have been doing09:15
kklimondastill happening here09:16
chrisccoulsoni'd be surprised if it's fixed. adobe don't fix bugs, they only create them09:17
devildantephew - it works even in metacity ; I was worried that a compiz bug would have masked that flash bug :p09:19
* devildante has a weird compiz config09:19
seb128rodrigo_, hey09:26
seb128how are you?09:26
rodrigo_fine, thanks, and you?09:26
seb128I'm fine thanks09:27
chrisccoulsonhi seb128 / rodrigo_09:28
seb128hey chrisccoulson09:29
seb128chrisccoulson, how are you?09:29
seb128did you manage to get your laptop to build a firefox yesterday? ;-)09:29
chrisccoulsonseb128 - not too bad thanks, just clearing up the wrapping paper mess after my daughter opened her birthday presents09:30
chrisccoulson(well, after we opened them for her) ;)09:30
chrisccoulsonyeah, i managed to get 2 firefox builds yesterday in the end ;)09:30
rodrigo_hi chrisccoulson09:30
rodrigo_chrisccoulson, 2 firefox builds as present for your daughter? :)09:30
chrisccoulsonthey felt like a present to me yesterday with the number of failed builds i had because of my laptop crashing ;)09:31
seb128chrisccoulson, oh, it's your daughter birthday? happy birthday to her then ;-)09:31
rodrigo_yeah, happy birthday to her, how old is she?09:31
seb128I hope you got some cake ;-)09:31
kklimondao/ rodrigo_09:31
rodrigo_hi kklimonda09:31
rodrigo_kklimonda, I am importing your branch right now into a branch in git.gnome.org, btw09:33
chrisccoulsonrodrigo_, she's 1 today :)09:33
devildantechrisccoulson: happy 1st birthday to her, then :)09:34
rodrigo_chrisccoulson, oh, nice :)09:34
didrockshey rodrigo_, salut seb12809:34
chrisccoulsonthanks :)09:34
seb128lut didrocks09:34
rodrigo_hi didrocks09:35
devildantehow many french-speaking people are here, I wonder...09:37
mvochrisccoulson: congrats from me as well on this :)09:44
chrisccoulsonmvo - thanks09:45
chrisccoulsonis your daughter feeling better today?09:46
mvochrisccoulson: yes, she is sleeping, that is a good sign. and much less fever09:46
seb128mvo, oh, you had one of your girls not feeling well?09:46
chrisccoulsonthat's good then :)09:47
mvoseb128: yes, marie had fever (40°C) for two days, that was not fun09:47
seb128oh ok09:47
mvoseb128: but she is getting better now - its the age, kidnergarten and all that09:47
seb128glad she's starting feeling better09:47
chrisccoulsonwe've been quite fortunate with ruby, she has been ill much less than average. but i guess that will change when she starts being around other people more09:48
chrisccoulsonshe did get my ubuflu from UDS though ;)09:48
pittiseb128: btw, I got a lot further with my pygi/gtk3.0 jockey port -- I see the main window, can install drivers, and get message boxes :)10:12
pitti(and I reported three upstream bugs for pygobject)10:12
seb128ok, great10:12
seb128let me know if they are responsive to bugs ;-)10:12
seb128so porting is non trivial it seems?10:12
pittiso far I have workarounds for all of them10:13
pittiseb128: no, but it's not truly hard either; just a bit ugly10:13
seb128how so?10:13
pittiseb128: and currently I'm stuck with the unavailability of indicator and pynotify bindings for gtk3.010:13
devildantewhat are the key differences between pygtk and pygobject? (which, as I understood, is the drop-in replacement for pygtk in python 3)10:13
pittibut kenvandine has a WI for indicator 3.0, I think10:13
pittidevildante: pygtk is going away10:13
pittidevildante: in the new world, pygobject uses the gobject-introspection data from libraries and makes them accessible directly10:14
pittiseb128: ugly> because of things like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62057910:14
ubot2Gnome bug 620579 in introspection "Accept unicode objects in addition to strings" [Major,New]10:14
chrisccoulsonoh, i just rewrote the firefox profile migrator in pygtk ;)10:14
chrisccoulsoni guess i need to fix that10:14
pittiseb128: pygobject 2.27 helps a lot already, though (I just uploaded it)10:14
pittiseb128: now I'm tracking down why the expand/fill behavior is now exactly opposite (my description box stays small, and all the labels and button boxes grow huge)10:15
seb128pitti, I was going to suggest that yesterday when I read the blog post about the new version10:15
pittibut once this gets done for one project, porting the next one should be a lot easier10:15
pittiseb128: hellogoodbyehellogoodbyehello10:17
pittiseb128: argh, seems my upload got stuck with the LP upgrade10:17
pittiseb128: but anyway, it's working a lot better, message boxes and tree iters work nicely again10:17
pittiit crashes right at the start, but I added a workaround and filed an upstream bug10:17
seb128it's still a bit young10:19
seb128but it's nice that somebody does some real porting to run into those issues, get them reported and fixed10:19
pittiright; give it another half a year, and it'll rock10:19
seb128let's see how responsive the upstream guys are10:20
pittijockey doesn't have that much GTK code, so it's rather easy to port10:20
pittiseb128: I wondered why libnotify4 doesn't have anything to build a GIR -- do you know how hard it is to add?10:20
seb128right, that's why I said at UDS that software-center will perhaps not be ported this cycle10:20
seb128dunno for the gir but the dx guys probably know10:21
seb128njpatel or ted10:21
seb128it seems to not really be hard if you api is commented correctly in the code so the parser works correctly on it10:21
seb128you -> your10:21
seb128seems the retracers don't like having launchpad down ;-)10:22
seb128pitti, do you plan to update gdu to 2.32?10:23
seb128it seems we still have 2.3010:24
pittican do; I believe I already looked at it before, and there was a problem with it, but I don't remember any more10:24
seb128the depends on the new libnotify?10:26
seb128read the git log it's mostly translation updates and api updates for the new gtk10:27
pittiseb128: ah, perhaps it was that10:32
pittiseb128: I'll do it this week, just not today10:32
pittitoday = holiday = fun stuff :)10:32
pittiwe wanted to go hiking, but it's dreadful outside10:32
seb128oh right, you are on holiday ;-)10:32
seb128you shouldn't even be on IRC! ;-)10:32
pittimeh, I have a simple test program which just opens a GtkBuilder10:34
pitti$ gcc -o b `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0` b.c10:34
pitti/tmp/cc948PC7.o: In function `main':10:34
pittib.c:(.text+0x19): undefined reference to `gtk_builder_new'10:34
pittib.c:(.text+0x32): undefined reference to `gtk_builder_add_from_file'10:34
pittib.c:(.text+0x5a): undefined reference to `g_log'10:35
devildanteoh god10:35
pittiwhat am I doing wrong here? "pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-3.0" has all the -lgtk-x11-3.0 bits10:35
didrockspitti: try to build with gcc-4.410:35
devildanteyou did gtk_-2.010:35
devildanteyou should put gtk+-3.010:35
devildante3 rather than 2 ;)10:36
pittiah, I tried that first10:36
didrockspitti: seems similar to the bug I had for the wallpaper cache yesterday in g-s-d10:36
pittiit doesn't work with either10:36
didrockscan't help you then, it did it for me :)10:36
pittididrocks: fun, that works10:36
didrocksyou were answering to devildante :)10:36
* devildante is confused10:36
didrockspitti: yeah, I've pinged doko about it yesterday, he has no clue about it10:36
didrockspitti: I tried all the --as-needed/--no-as-needed and such, didn't see any difference10:37
pittididrocks: I answered to devildante that I tried both gtk 2 and 310:37
didrocksfor me, it was even worse, gdk_init not recognized by the linker despite the -l… :}10:37
pittiok, so the "inverted fill/expand behaviour" bug is not pygobject specific, but GTK 2->3 specific10:39
* pitti RTFM10:39
njpatelpitti, not too hard, you can probably pull the autofoo from one of the dx's library projects10:41
devildanteI see two pedro_ in the list :p11:00
pedro_hello devildante :-)11:01
devildantehi pedro_ :)11:01
devildantepedro_: this is serious, I see two of you :p11:02
rodrigo_one pedro_ is enough11:12
pedro_rodrigo_, my mom says that too :-P11:12
devildanteI guess empathy is tricking me11:14
seb128hey pedro_, up earlier every day?11:16
rodrigo_devildante, yes, I only see one pedro_11:16
pedro_hello seb128! same time as always but looks like DST is in place now ;-)11:16
rodrigo_pedro_, so what time is it now in Chile?11:17
pedro_8 am here11:17
rodrigo_ah, only 4 hours diff, yeah11:17
devildanterodrigo_: thanks for letting me know empathy is buggy :)11:17
rodrigo_devildante, :)11:17
devildante(that sounded funny btw :p)11:17
ivankamvo: hi11:19
seb128ivanka, hey, he's at lunch I think11:19
ivankahey seb128: ah, no worries, was nothing urgent11:20
seb128ivanka, if you let some context I'm sure he will reply when he's back11:20
seb128or maybe somebody else can help you11:20
ivankaseb128: was just going to thank mvo for helping out rhlee with screenshots.ubuntu.com11:21
seb128oh ok ;-)11:22
chrisccoulsonright, i'll be back in a bit, taking my daughter out for lunch :)11:23
seb128chrisccoulson, have fun11:24
duanedesignwhere is the evolution-data-server binary in Maverick?11:42
rodrigo_hmm, we need a GTK3 version of liblaunchpad-integration11:47
rodrigo_duanedesign, /usr/lib/evolution/e-*-factory11:47
rodrigo_duanedesign, just answered to the bug11:47
seb128rodrigo_, it's in natty11:47
seb128lpi with gtk311:47
seb128the amd64 build failed though11:47
rodrigo_seb128, oh, is it?11:47
seb128I will fix that when i'm back from lunch11:47
rodrigo_I need an update then11:47
seb128or manually build it locally meanwhile11:48
pittirodrigo_: do you happen to know about the different dialog contents expand/fill behaviour in GTK 2.0 and 3.0?11:49
pittirodrigo_: with 3.0 resizing dialogs often just causes the dialog to get extra outer padding, instead of resizing the contents11:50
rodrigo_pitti, hmm, no idea11:50
rodrigo_pitti, afaik, there shouldn't be any change, but not sure11:50
pittipython -c 'from gi.repository import Gtk; Gtk.require_version("3.0"); w = Gtk.Builder(); w.add_from_file("/usr/share/gnome-control-center/ui/gnome-mouse-properties.ui"); w.get_object("mouse_properties_dialog").run()'11:51
pittithis reproduces it nicely; if you use "2.0" in require_version, it works correctly11:51
pittirodrigo_: it's not a python issue; I wrote a C test program which does the same11:52
pittirodrigo_: do you know who I could ask about this?11:52
rodrigo_pitti, #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org11:52
rodrigo_pitti, garnacho might know about it, but better ask in the channel, I guess11:53
devildantepitti: but be sure to not be eaten by detractors who say Ubuntu abandoned GNOME :p11:53
pittirodrigo_: I asked there, thanks12:01
rodrigo_pitti, and?12:01
pittiwaiting :)12:01
rodrigo_ah, ok :)12:02
rodrigo_let me know what answer you get, please12:02
seb128pitti, not sure if you know about http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.91/gtk-migrating-2-to-3.html12:05
devildanteseb128: nice link, thank you :)12:05
seb128pitti, there is a section which seems similar to what you ask12:05
pittirodrigo_, seb128: some part of it seems to be known, gnome bug 63459212:07
ubot2Gnome bug 634592 in gtk "GtkNotebook doesn't expand (in a typical GtkDialog)" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63459212:07
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away
rodrigo_pitti, ah, ok, so it's a bug, not a "feature" :)12:08
=== oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann
pittiseb128: right, but if that changes stuff at all, it should expand more, not less12:09
seb128right, so you probably  hit a bug12:09
mvoivanka: thanks! also I don't had to help much, rhless did a great job12:17
pittiyay, it's working now \o/12:21
pittirodrigo_: so, explicitly setting the fill property to True in the topmost GtkVBox helps12:21
pitti(workaround for this bug)12:21
ivankamvo: that is good news :-)12:23
pittinow it's just unthemed, and I get a lot of "Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "murrine"," warnings12:23
pittibut that's secondary12:23
pittiI guess our murrine theme package doesn't have a version for gtk 3 yet12:23
seb128pitti, install the gtk3 murrine binary12:23
seb128it has12:23
seb128you just have nothing pulling it in12:24
pittiseb128: ah, seems we pull that in via human-theme or gnome-themes-ubuntu; so I guess at some point we'll just update that12:25
pitti*sniff* that's working beautifully12:25
seb128well the default theme should probably recommends it12:25
seb128pitti, ;-)12:25
pittithe old pygtk2 and new pygi 3.0 jockey now look identical12:26
seb128great, upload! ;-)12:26
pittino indicator, no notifications12:26
seb128oh right12:26
pittiand it still uses dbus-glib12:26
pittiI didn't find any GDBus stuff in the glib gir12:26
seb128well that one is not really an issue12:27
pittinot sure whether that's intended or a bug12:27
pittibut right, dbus-python isn't a blocker12:28
pittisorry for being such a nuisance today, but I've got another question12:44
pittiFailed to load typelib file '/usr/lib/girepository-1.0/AppIndicator-0.1.typelib' for namespace 'AppIndicator': Typelib version mismatch; expected 4, found 312:44
pittiwould it be enough to rebuild gir1.0-appindicator-0.1?12:44
* pitti tries12:46
seb128pitti, yes12:48
seb128upstream handled the abi breakage in an non optimal way12:49
seb128they have an abi number but didn't bump it since it's still an unstable serie12:49
pittiok, no problem12:49
* pitti installs 300 MB of build depends and tries a no-change build; if that works, I'll upload it12:50
seb128doing a rebuild should be enough if the other typelibs it needs have been rebuilt12:50
pittithat, and adding a gir to libnotify4 -> happiness12:50
seb128pitti, ken is working on having a gtk3 build going on but I guess having a rebuild meanwhile makes sense12:50
pittiseb128: oh, does that thing actually need gtk2? I thought it was all dbus12:51
pittiwell, python-appindicator apparenlty imports gtk2 (which causes the app to hang badly)12:51
pittiThe GObject name 'AppIndicator' isn't compatibile12:52
pittiwith the configured identifier prefixes:12:52
pitti  ['AppIndicator']12:52
pittiThe class would have no name.  Most likely you want to specify a12:52
pittidifferent --identifier-prefix.12:52
seb128pitti, yes, that needs gtk212:52
pittiok, I think I'll leave that to Ken, and do something else for now :)12:52
seb128pitti, it communicates over dbus with the service12:52
* pitti will actually pretend he'd be on holiday then, see you later :)12:52
seb128pitti, have fun!12:52
bcurtiswxdidrocks, I created bug #675555 would you be able to check it through for m? I read through SRU wiki but not sure if I understood it all quite right.  I'm heading to work shortly and I'll ping you again with my bcurtiswx_ account later.13:07
ubot2Launchpad bug 675555 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy SRU maverick 2.32.1 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67555513:07
rodrigo_I'm going to update gvfs for the GNOME3 PPA, but I think it can just go to natty (we have 1.6.4 and the new upstream is 1.6.6)13:12
rodrigo_seb128, ^13:12
seb128rodrigo_, why do you need to update it?13:13
rodrigo_well, going over the versions page from robert13:13
rodrigo_I really don't need it13:13
seb128rodrigo_, don't we rather need a 1.7 from the unstable serie?13:13
seb128oh ok13:13
rodrigo_hmm, there's no 1.7 release yet13:13
* rodrigo_ relooks13:13
seb128right, but maybe we need one13:13
seb1281.6.5 was from the new serie but the new 1.6 is from stable again13:14
rodrigo_right, the git master one has all stuff migrated to GSettings13:14
rodrigo_so, yes, better to wait for the 1.7.x release13:14
seb128does that migration impact on any other component?13:15
rodrigo_the gvfs migration you mean?13:15
seb128rodrigo_, did you run out of task or do you just want to do easy updates for a change?13:16
rodrigo_seb128, no, not out of tasks, just looking over the list and deciding what needs to go first13:16
rodrigo_seb128, but do you want me to do anything else?13:16
seb128not really, I just have some updates from that list pending so let me know on the channel if you start on one13:17
rodrigo_ah, which updates?13:17
seb128the 2.32.1 updates vuntz rolled earlier13:17
seb128gnome-session, libwnck, etc13:17
rodrigo_ok, I can take some, if you want13:18
rodrigo_for natty?13:18
rodrigo_ok, let me know which ones you want me to work on, I'll do them after lunch13:18
seb128rodrigo_, you can do gnome-menus gnome-themes if you want13:19
rodrigo_ok, will do after lunch, now lunch, so bbl :)13:19
seb128rodrigo_, enjoy your lunch13:19
rodrigo_thanks :)13:19
seb128rodrigo_, sound-juicer as well13:20
bcurtiswx_didrocks, get my prev. msg ?13:48
=== zyga is now known as zyga-food
didrocksbcurtiswx_: sorry, was working on something else :)13:48
bcurtiswx_didrocks, not a prob, just got to work, wanted to verify :)13:49
didrocksbcurtiswx_: not sure I'll give it a go before Friday though and empathy is more kenvandine's pet :)13:49
bcurtiswx_didrocks, ah.  thought you were since i've seen you upload it a lot :) i will bother Ken.. he's used to it by now13:49
didrockshehe :)13:49
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, bug #675555 . Am I doing things right with it?13:50
ubot2Launchpad bug 675555 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy SRU maverick 2.32.1 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67555513:50
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, you mean in regard to SRU process?13:51
* kenvandine looks13:51
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, yeah I got the package to build successfully on pbuilder and testing it worked fine. im just not sure exactly what SRU entails.. the wiki was confusing13:52
bcurtiswx_i've been told i'm doing it wrong by -motu but I learned it the way I did it from the people here.. so i wanted to make sure I did it wrong.. weird i know :P13:53
kenvandinewow... i didn't even notice there was a preference for 'disable notifications when busy or away'13:53
kenvandinei really want gwibber to do something like that, using IM status as a key for your general availability13:54
kenvandinebut i am not sure that is totally sane... opinions from others welcome13:54
bcurtiswx_what would that do to benefit gwibber? tell the program not to bug you when away/busy but let the messages flow when available?13:54
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, yeah, sort of like a DND13:55
kenvandinelike if your showing slides during a talk... set your status to away13:55
kenvandineor busy, etc13:55
kenvandineand gwibber stops bugging you :)13:55
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, considering that it is a GNOME package, i think that is fine for a SRU13:56
bcurtiswx_smart annoyances.. i like it :)13:56
kenvandinegenerally they prefer individual bug fix SRUs13:56
kenvandinebug GNOME packages we do the point releases13:56
kenvandineso this looks good13:56
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, great :) thx13:57
kenvandinelet me sponsor it and i'll let you handle getting the SRU approved :)13:57
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, OK.  I think I have it all prepared for SRU except for  a testcase in the bug comments14:00
chrisccoulsonis gwibber really really slow in natty for anybody else?14:01
kenvandinechrisccoulson, slow?  like what specifically is slow?14:02
kenvandinethe UI doesn't feel responsive?14:02
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, it takes a long time for it to open from the messaging menu14:02
kenvandineeven if gwibber-service is already running?14:02
chrisccoulsonand i just had to re-authorize with identi.ca, and the whole UI froze for like 10 seconds after i clicked "Allow"14:03
kenvandinealthough that hsould be fast...14:03
kenvandinechrisccoulson, i know about that14:03
kenvandineit is waiting for the response from identi.ca14:03
chrisccoulsonoh, it tells my i need to reauthorize again14:03
kenvandinefor it to get the resulting page14:03
kenvandinefor identi.ca?14:03
bcurtiswx_chrisccoulson, i agree, the first launch from the me menu does take a bit14:03
kenvandineoh... did you hit "save" after re-authorizing?14:04
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, oh, i might not have hit save14:04
chrisccoulsonthat's confusing ;)14:04
kenvandineyeah... i really need to fix that :/14:04
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, maybe authorize should auto-save?14:04
chrisccoulsonyeah, that has tripped me up before as well14:04
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, yes... it will auto-save all changes... when i find the time14:05
kenvandinewe had to make it a manual process because of race conditions with couchdb14:06
kenvandinebut now i just haven't found the time to fix it14:06
bcurtiswx_time, if i ever make a machine to go back, i'll force the gregorians to add an extra hour or two to the day14:06
kenvandinechrisccoulson, wow... as 12oz burger?  I am impressed!14:07
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, yeah, i wish i took a photograph of it!14:08
* bcurtiswx_ is lost14:08
chrisccoulsoni'll just have to go back and have another one!14:08
chrisccoulsonbcurtiswx_ ;)14:08
bcurtiswx_chrisccoulson, would this be one of those find you on twitter/identica and see what you're talking about?14:09
chrisccoulsonbcurtiswx_ - it might be ;)14:09
bcurtiswx_name on there? @chrisccoulson ?14:09
chrisccoulsonthats my name everywhere ;)14:10
chrisccoulsonright, i am determined to have ff-4.0 uploaded this afternoon14:11
kenvandinechrisccoulson, woot14:11
chrisccoulsoni wonder how many times my laptop will crash before that happens though ;)14:12
bcurtiswx_well, i'm officially stalking/following you now14:12
chrisccoulsonheh :)14:13
seb128chrisccoulson, did you have fun for lunch? ;-)14:13
chrisccoulsoni don't normally post a lot - just usually to announce new firefox and thunderbird releases ;)14:13
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, we went to an indoor play area for my daughter, and then grabbed some lunch afterwards14:13
chrisccoulsoni ate quite a large lunch though14:14
seb128oh, feeling sleepy now then? ;-)14:14
seb128you need some coffee to fix that :p14:14
chrisccoulsonheh, yeah, i could do with some coffee!14:17
* kenvandine sips on some hot coffee, yum!14:18
bcurtiswx_i wish i liked coffee.. because everywhere i go, conferences, workplaces, friends, family.. they always have a pot brewing :'(14:18
seb128kenvandine, hey14:19
seb128kenvandine, how are the gtk3 updates from ted going?14:19
kenvandinejust starting that now14:20
kenvandinehopefully finish today14:20
kenvandinehopefully it won't be too painful now that mterry has blazed the trail :)14:21
kenvandineseb128, we need to get ubuntu-geoip out of sourceNEW14:22
kenvandineso we can get the MIR rolling and get indicator-datetime uploaded14:23
mterrykenvandine, make sure you're looking at that latest merge (not trunk) for launchpad-integration, as trunk has a bug with how I did it for non-i386 archs14:23
seb128mterry, I'm about to sponsor that btw14:23
kenvandinei was just looking to see if that was merged :)14:23
seb128Riddell, hey, do you plan to do some source NEW today? ;-)14:23
mterryrodrigo_, should my gtk3 apps be unthemed?  Am I missing a theme package or something?14:23
seb128mterry, you probably need gtk3 murrine14:23
seb128it's in natty14:24
kenvandineah... i just noticed that last night14:24
seb128but nothing pull it in14:24
kenvandinethat explains it14:24
mterryhrm, pulling it in14:24
Riddellseb128: yo, can do, you want the gtk package in?14:24
seb128I will update the theme when we start having applications using gtk314:24
kenvandinei got a bunch of errors finding murrine14:24
kenvandinewas doing some late night hacking on the new gtk3 vala gwibber client :)14:24
kenvandinefirst dive into playing with Gtk.Application :)14:25
seb128Riddell, kenvandine needs ubuntu-geoip, gtksourceview3 would be nice as well14:25
kenvandinewish there was documentation :)14:25
seb128Riddell, and launchpad-integration through binary NEW in a bit (it's there only for i386 so far but that's about to be fixed)14:25
seb128kenvandine, pitti ported jockey to gi and gtk314:26
seb128kenvandine, he's just blocked on the lack of appindicator gir for gtk3 now14:26
kenvandinesaw that14:26
seb128mterry, hey14:27
mterrykenvandine, library.gnome.org doesn't have your back?14:27
seb128mterry, what do you work,plan to work on next?14:27
kenvandinemterry, C docs14:27
mterryseb128, working on gedit a bit (seems to work, need to file MIR for libpeas and gtksourceview3) and some quickly stuff.  I can take something14:28
kenvandinebut had to look at the vapi file to figure out the names of some flags14:28
mterrykenvandine, yeah, having the vapi files open seems unavoidable with Vala14:28
seb128mterry, I don't think we have anything which is important to get tackled this week so feel free to do things you want to do or quickly work14:29
seb128mterry, if you are wanting to do some updates there is still gdl and anjuta to do14:29
seb128having a first real application using gtk3 in universe could be nice14:29
mterryyeah, that's probably better than having gedit be the flagship.  less pressure for it to be perfect on first go and I can update it directly...  /me starts looking at gdl14:30
seb128mterry, great, thanks14:31
bcurtiswx_seb128, are there things still blocking empathy from being updated to 2.91.2 ?14:32
seb128bcurtiswx_, webkit, gnome-keyring14:32
seb128at least14:32
bcurtiswx_seb128, they just need to be packaged, correct?14:33
seb128"just", yes14:33
seb128Riddell, thanks for the NEWing ;-)14:34
seb128kenvandine, mterry: ^ ubuntu-geoip and gtksourceview3 newed14:34
Riddelllaunchpad-integration in too14:34
mterryRiddell, thanks!14:35
seb128didrocks, I think vuntz really dislikes you14:35
seb128didrocks, he rolled gnome-panel 2.32.1 without considering your dso fix14:35
didrocksseb128: no no, don't tell it!14:35
didrocksseb128: but it still applies?14:36
vuntzdidn't see the bug, I guess14:36
seb128he fixed http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-panel/commit/?id=d38428d78ca5a3e51e0cf472875652fd2d787ada14:36
didrocksvuntz: like a cache patch *hem*14:36
seb128the other parts still apply14:36
seb128vuntz, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63444614:36
ubot2Gnome bug 634446 in Panel "invalid DSO linking with gnome-panel" [Normal,Unconfirmed]14:36
didrocksvuntz is mean :)14:36
=== zyga-food is now known as zyga
seb128didrocks, the patch is not enough as well14:37
seb128libtray has an undefined gdk symbols14:37
bcurtiswx_2.92.92.is.2.31.91-0ubuntu4 <-- what's that mean?14:37
didrocksseb128: the previous buid was working, isn't it?14:37
seb128bcurtiswx_, it means that 2.92 was a typo for 2.2914:37
vuntzdidrocks: need to look at it later, but I'm not quite sure why randr is needed for the test stuff14:38
seb128bcurtiswx_, so the version was tweaked to go back to the real one with an epoch over debian14:38
seb128didrocks, yes, not sure why14:38
bcurtiswx_interesting, lol14:38
didrocksvuntz: if you can consider my wallpaper cache as well, I had to rebased it twice since last month :)14:39
didrocksvuntz: normally, all your concerns were taken into account14:39
seb128didrocks, in fact that might be the same issue that g-s-d14:40
didrocksseb128: ok, separate issue then, all is good from our side, but the linker seems not happy about something…14:40
mterryseb128, for something like gdl that is introducing a new gdl-3.0.pc and the like, I believe best practices is to create a new source package, since otherwise we'd have to update all rdepends immediately?   With few rdepends, do we bother with a new source?14:42
seb128mterry, no, don't bother, there is 2 rdepends to this one14:42
seb128one being anjuta14:42
seb128the other one is gtranslator which seems ported to gtk3 in git14:42
seb128there was a blog post about it yesterday14:42
mterryseb128, well, there is python-gdl which python-gnome2-extras-dev uses14:43
seb128well, that one has no rdepends14:43
mterryseb128, but no rdepends of that?14:43
seb128so we can just stop building it14:43
seb128what do you think?14:43
mterryseb128, sure.  How do we stop building something?  Take it out of the control file?14:44
* mterry wonders if there is secret archive admin magic that would do the same thing14:45
seb128mterry, well, the gdl you are using will change so ideally tweak the build to not try to build the gdl binding if it's not clever enough to do that14:45
seb128mterry, typically it's dropping the build-depends, dropping the binary in the control, cleaning the .install14:46
mterryFor my purposes, seems easier to just drop the python-gdl Depends, but OK14:47
mterryoh right, it builds python-gdl too14:47
seb128mterry, what do you mean?14:47
seb128mterry, it's likely that the source will fail to build once you land the new gdl14:47
mterryI had assumed gdl provided that itself.  OK, I'm up to speed14:47
seb128great ;-)14:48
seb128it's the old manual bindings we are talking about there14:48
* mterry looks *so* forward to our new gobject-introspection overlords14:48
devildanteit seems now is not the time to create new apps, with all that gtk 2 to 3 transition stuff :)14:50
seb128didrocks, seems your gnome-panel patch is not required14:53
didrocksseb128: the DSO link?14:54
didrocksseems it was (your previous upload): http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58905743/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.gnome-panel_1:
didrocksand I think I got the build error as well to add it :)14:55
didrocksthen, gcc 4.4 -> 4.5, not sure what happens, new errors, maybe this one is now vanished14:56
seb128didrocks, that seems  http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-panel/commit/?id=d38428d78ca5a3e51e0cf472875652fd2d787ada14:56
seb128didrocks, not sure why you added the xrandr ones14:56
seb128well building with gcc-4.4 without your patch and this commit works14:56
seb128gcc-4.5 has issues but that's similar to the simple g-s-d case from yesterday14:57
cyphermoxhey didrocks! I think I got the evo migration code fixed now :)14:57
didrocksseb128: I remember to get an issue with xrandr, I didn't add it just for fun :)14:57
didrockscyphermox: awesome \o/14:57
didrocksbut if it builds without, nice :)14:57
cyphermoxI have the patch ready, just need to clean it up and I'll show it to the evo devs14:57
seb128didrocks, ok, let's try without it to see how it goes14:57
cyphermoxit always built without14:57
didrockscyphermox: great, thanks for working on this :)14:57
cyphermoxoh wait.. :)14:58
didrocksseb128: sure :-)14:58
vuntzdidrocks: ahah! You wanted me to use a patch that is wrong!14:58
didrocksvuntz: that's a punishment for not commiting the wallpaper patch and force me to rebase at each release!14:59
didrocksvuntz: I see, it's all your fault! :)14:59
bcurtiswx_why would quilt not see patched with them existing in debian/patches?15:00
didrocksbcurtiswx_: is it in debian/series?15:02
bcurtiswx_didrocks, no15:02
didrocksso it should be :)15:02
bcurtiswx_move all patches from debian/patches to debian/patches/series ?15:03
didrocksbcurtiswx_: no, I mean debian/patches/series as a file15:03
didrocksbcurtiswx_: not familiar with quilt?15:03
bcurtiswx_didrocks, not past basic pop push commands :(15:04
didrocksbcurtiswx_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Quilt15:04
didrocksbcurtiswx_: basically, debian/patches/series is a file listing one after the other the available patches (the order is important)15:05
rodrigo_seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-themes/2_32_1_release <- do I propose it for merging, or merge to lp:~u-d/gnome-themes/ubuntu and upload?15:05
cyphermoxquilt is so awesome :)15:07
seb128rodrigo_, can you do merge requests for now?15:08
rodrigo_seb128, yes, no problem15:08
* rodrigo_ proposes15:08
seb128rodrigo_, I think this one is trivial so I will approve and you can merge and upload15:08
seb128rodrigo_, we just do that for new contributors to the desktop set15:08
bcurtiswx_didrocks, seems weird, im taing the debian directory from the desktop team.. thought it would already have something like this in there15:09
rodrigo_seb128, yes, I know, that's why I ask, since this was a trivial one15:09
bcurtiswx_taking* / using15:09
seb128bcurtiswx_, what distro version?15:09
bcurtiswx_from maverick15:09
rodrigo_seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-themes/2_32_1_release/+merge/4105915:09
seb128rodrigo_, ok, approved ;-)15:10
rodrigo_seb128, ok, merging and uploading then :)15:11
bcurtiswx_im looking at gnome-keyring from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-keyring/ubuntu15:12
bcurtiswx_debian/patches has no series file in it15:14
rodrigo_bcurtiswx_, there's already a 2.91.x version in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-keyring/ubuntugtk3, just in case you are working on that15:16
bcurtiswx_rodrigo_, wow, didn't know about ubuntugtk3 instead of ubuntu at the end for the new packages. :) thx15:17
rodrigo_bcurtiswx_, yes, we are pushing stuff to ...ubuntugtk3, so just look for that15:18
rodrigo_bcurtiswx_, also, if you are working on some package let robert_ancell or myself know15:19
rodrigo_so that we don't work on the same one15:19
seb128or me15:19
rodrigo_or seb128 yes15:19
rodrigo_bcurtiswx_, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds has the packages15:19
cyphermoxon that subject, what's the tag again for the bugs seb128 tagged for gtk3 migrations?15:20
cyphermoxI was looking for just "gtk3"15:20
seb128https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3 has work items as well15:21
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, btw empathy is in the unapproved queue for maverick-proposed and I uploaded it to natty15:23
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, i'll yet you take it from here... subscribe ubuntu-sru, etc15:23
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, let us know if you have questions15:23
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, Thx.. i've already subscribed ubuntu-sru added changelog to comments, and a testcase as well.. i think thats all i have to do15:24
kenvandinebcurtiswx_, thx!15:24
bcurtiswx_kenvandine, np :)15:24
bcurtiswx_well i was going to see abotu packaging -keyring and webkit, but it's aready been done.. for both.. with the exception  being webkit FTBFS15:26
bcurtiswx_AndrewKeenan__, where in Rochester?15:30
bcurtiswx_where would I DL webkit3.0-1.3.6.tar.gz ?15:34
seb128bcurtiswx_, I guess on the webkit website15:35
seb128it's probably just named webkit-1.3.6.tar.gz upstream15:35
bcurtiswx_seb128, http://www.paldo.org/index-section-packages-page-main-releaseid-136483.html ?15:36
seb128bcurtiswx_, webkit download on google15:37
bcurtiswx_haha, yes i see now.. thx ;)15:37
ftabratsche, hi, i read you have some (gtk3?) patches for chromium. anything i can do to help you?15:38
bratschefta: No, it's not a gtk3 patch.  It's a patch to make Chromium work with a particular gtk3 feature that I backported to gtk2 in a PPA (and which I guess we may be distro-patching in gtk2 for Natty?)15:40
ftabratsche, natty only?15:40
bratscheWell, I guess Natty+15:41
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
ftabratsche, i can probably host it in my builds. but i first need to experiment with the new per-dist quilt patch stack15:42
ftabratsche, any pointer?15:43
bratschefta: I have it in here: https://launchpad.net/~bratsche/+archive/gtk15:44
bratschefta: But the gtk2 patch isn't in Natty yet.15:44
ftabtw, do you add a bar at the bottom to display the grip or something?15:44
bratscheIf an app wants one of those, they should install a statusbar.15:45
ftaoh, if it's not in gtk natty, will it break chromium if it has your patch15:45
bratschefta: Right, it's only in my PPA so far.15:45
ftahm. do you plan to land it in natty?15:46
bratscheNot really.  There's a bug in the backport patch that I don't have time to fix yet.15:47
ftabratsche, hm, i'm not sure what i should do then. i don't want to host a patched gtk2 in my 4 chromium PPAs and it's not in natty either, so don't see how it's of any use to carry the patch in chromium. iirc, it would only work for those who have both PPAs (very unlikely)15:51
bratschefta: So I guess if/when I can get this landed I should talk to you then.15:52
seb128fta, you should delay use that until we land the patch in natty15:52
rodrigo_test -z "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages" || /bin/mkdir -p "/opt/extra/src/canonical/packages/gnome-menus/build-area/gnome-menus-2.30.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages"15:52
rodrigo_ /bin/bash ../libtool   --mode=install /usr/bin/install -c   gmenu.la '/opt/extra/src/canonical/packages/gnome-menus/build-area/gnome-menus-2.30.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages'15:52
rodrigo_libtool: install: error: cannot install `gmenu.la' to a directory not ending in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages15:52
rodrigo_I guess it got confused by the 2 python versions I have?15:52
seb128it should not, we build most things for multiple python version15:53
seb128does the current natty version builds for you?15:53
rodrigo_let me see15:53
seb128could be a bug in the rules15:53
ftabratsche, seb128: ok. just ping me when that lands in natty, i'll experiment in my daily PPA 1st, and if it's fine, land it in the next natty update15:54
rodrigo_seb128, no, same thing for the current natty version15:56
* rodrigo_ looks at rules15:56
bcurtiswx_is there a way to tell bzr bd to use 3/4 of my CPU's ?15:57
seb128vuntz, do you have -as-needed by default in the opensuse gcc?16:01
seb128vuntz, and gnome-panel doesn't fail to build?16:04
vuntzit built fine, yes16:04
seb128hum, k16:04
seb128vuntz, can you try something for me?16:05
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
seb128vuntz, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/67651916:05
ubot2Launchpad bug 676519 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "link failing despite the right linking arguments are presents on command line (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]16:05
seb128vuntz, can you try if the command and the .c on this bug builds fine for you?16:05
seb128gcc -o gnome-update-wallpaper-cache `pkg-config --cflags --libs glib-2.0 gdk-2.0 gconf-2.0 gnome-desktop-2.0` gnome-update-wallpaper-cache.c16:06
seb128vuntz, it fails to build but works with the .c before the pkg-config call16:07
seb128I think gnome-panel fails due to a similar issue16:07
vuntzI see the issue for the .c16:07
vuntzbut I had no issue with gnome-panel16:07
didrocksvuntz: don't tell it's my code!!! :p16:08
vuntzdidrocks: well...16:08
vuntzdidrocks: I won't say it :-)16:08
vuntzcan I think it? ;-)16:08
seb128let me check if that's because I build with the applet no in process16:08
didrocksvuntz: no ice cream in Lyon!16:08
didrocksthat's weird…16:08
=== cypher_ is now known as czajkowski
ftadidrocks, doko said "objects before libs on the command line"16:09
didrocksfta: we try to understand why the same --as-needed on other distro doesn't have that issue16:10
didrocks(for gnome-panel)16:10
mterryseb128, do you know of any reason I shouldn't update devhelp as part of the anjuta situation?  anjuta is its library's only rdepends, but I'm wondering if we know of any conflict around webkit or whatever16:10
rodrigo_hey vuntz16:10
ftadid you to swap the arguments?16:10
didrocksfta: that's not the issue there, read the backlog ^16:10
vuntzrodrigo_: hola16:10
seb128didrocks, /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to symbol 'XGetWindowAttributes' when building testtray.c16:11
seb128your patch might be required ;-)16:11
didrocksseb128: ahah!16:11
didrocksvuntz: see ^^16:11
seb128though that should be X_LIBS not XRANDR, no?16:11
vuntzseb128: X_LIBS is in testtray_LDADD16:12
didrocksindeed, that sounds more X_LIBS than XRANDR16:12
seb128vuntz, I think it's the order issue16:12
vuntzwell, it works here16:12
seb128vuntz, seems tray.la should be before the other libs16:12
vuntzand that's the usual LDADD stuff16:12
vuntzdoes notification-area-applet build fine?16:13
seb128libnotification-area-applet.so does16:13
seb128let me try a ./configure && make with the tarball rather than a package build16:14
vuntzright, but it's a .so, so it might be different16:14
seb128  CCLD   notification-area-applet16:17
seb128/usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to symbol 'gdk_window_get_parent'16:17
vuntznot sure why I don't see the issue16:19
seb128vuntz, yeah, moving libtray.la before X_LIBS in NOTIFICATION_AREA_LDADD works16:19
vuntzanyway, if moving the line works, please commit16:19
seb128ok, thanks16:19
didrocksI'm afraid we will have that issue with plenty of upstream16:20
seb128let's see16:21
seb128I didn't have it with any other tarball yet today and I did a bunch of GNOME updates16:21
seb128rodrigo_, should I do the gnome-desktop update to natty?16:23
rodrigo_seb128, 2.91.2 you mean?16:23
rodrigo_seb128, I can do it, as soon as I finish other stuff I'm doing16:23
seb128rodrigo_, you do the shemas one and I do gnome-desktop? I had some change from debian to merge in16:24
seb128in gnome-desktop I mean16:24
rodrigo_seb128, ok16:24
rodrigo_man, dh_scour doesn't like me16:26
seb128it should not fail builds16:28
seb128it might complain though16:29
devildanteseb128: complaining is the beginning of failures...16:29
seb128well pitti said it doesn't fail build if it fails to do its job16:29
seb128I think16:29
rodrigo_seb128, it stops builds here, with 'too many values to unpack'16:30
seb128it should just be a warning16:30
seb128you are sure it stops on that?16:30
seb128I've seen those as well but they are just warnings16:30
seb128on what source?16:30
rodrigo_seb128, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/533509/16:31
rodrigo_seb128, gnome-applets16:31
seb128rodrigo_, can you open a bug and assign it to pitti?16:31
rodrigo_on which project on LP?16:31
seb128rodrigo_, scour16:32
seb128well the ubuntu scour package16:32
seb128rodrigo_, is there a gnome-applets update?16:33
rodrigo_seb128, no, just building it with my patch for migrating null and invest applets to not use deprecated stuff16:34
seb128oh ok16:34
seb128did you solve the null applet question?16:34
seb128the applets to list there16:34
rodrigo_the null applet thing works, yes, and just waiting for vuntz to accept the patch16:34
rodrigo_seb128, yes, there's a BonoboId thing on the .panel-applet files16:35
seb128so with your patches there is no bonoboui use left?16:35
rodrigo_but not so sure about the invest applet changes, and jhbuilt panel crashes for me adding any applet, so building a package to test it for real16:35
rodrigo_seb128, yes, no more bonobo and libpanel-applet-216:36
vuntzrodrigo_: no no no no, I don't maintain gnome-applets, so you're not waiting for me :-)16:36
seb128rodrigo_, great ;-)16:36
rodrigo_vuntz, then, why did you answer on the bug??? :D16:36
rodrigo_vuntz, you maintain it now, as soon as you answer on a bug :)16:36
vuntzrodrigo_: well, you wrote code, you maintain it16:36
rodrigo_now seriously, who maintains it?16:37
* rodrigo_ looks at .doap16:37
rodrigo_ah, ok16:37
vuntzand desrt, obviously16:37
rodrigo_you know his nick on irc?16:37
vuntzhe'll pretend he doesn't, but desrt likes to lie16:37
vuntzdon't know if he's on irc16:38
dbarth_pitti: hey martin, could i ask for a gentle kick of the burn down chart script before my call? ;)16:38
rodrigo_seb128, hmm, there's no ubuntu scour package on LP16:38
rodrigo_h yes, there is16:39
rodrigo_search didn't find it16:39
seb128dbarth_, today is an holiday in his part of Germany16:42
seb128dbarth_, he's probably not around16:42
rodrigo_seb128, ok, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scour/+bug/676566 will ping pitti tomorrow about it16:42
ubot2Launchpad bug 676566 in scour (Ubuntu) "dh_scour stops builds on Natty (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]16:42
rodrigo_seb128, any way to trick it to not stop in the meanwhile so that I can build stuff?16:42
seb128rodrigo_, he will probably see the pings in the IRC backlog16:43
rodrigo_seb128, yeah, right16:43
kklimondaDBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.217 was not provided by any .service files - this error is misleading, right? I don't think names like ":1.217" are provided by service files..16:43
rodrigo_kklimonda, yes, that seems like a bug, although it might mean that the service has died16:43
rodrigo_kklimonda, so, it tries to loook for it in .service files16:44
seb128rodrigo_, you can set DEB_DH_SCOURL_ARGS16:44
seb128rodrigo_, I guess DEB_DH_SCOURL_ARGS := --no-act16:44
seb128or -Xitemtoexclude16:45
rodrigo_ok, thanks16:45
kklimondarodrigo_: if I comment on a resolved notagnome bug is my response sent to developers?16:51
rodrigo_kklimonda, yes16:51
seb128didrocks, your cache patch fails to apply to gnome-desktop 2.91.217:03
didrocksvuntz: !!!17:03
didrocksvuntz: please look at it, more than 3 times I rebase it in less than a month17:03
vuntzI blame rodrigo_ since he did that release17:03
rodrigo_there was some reverts since 2.91.117:04
rodrigo_so that might be the cause17:04
didrocksrevert? :/17:04
Riddelldo we have a maintainer for openoffice these days?17:04
rodrigo_didrocks, what's the patch?17:04
rodrigo_didrocks, yes, reverted commits that were in 2.91.117:05
didrocksI spent half an hour to adapt to the new version for them being reverting :/17:05
didrocks(at midnight!)17:05
didrockssnif :/17:05
seb128didrocks,  rodrigo_, ok, it's easy to fix this time17:05
seb128don't worry I'm doing it17:05
didrocksthanks seb128 :)17:05
rodrigo_didrocks, yeah, changing too much these days17:06
didrocksseb128: can you repost it upstream? in case they decided to have a look at it *finally*17:06
didrocksvuntz: ^^17:06
didrockschristmas is not that far :)17:06
seb128didrocks, it's a one liner in the include but I'm lazy to git clone gnome-desktop only for that17:07
didrocksseb128: yeah, I didn't propose a git format patch for the last change as I was fed up rebasing it17:07
seb128ok, I can attach the new patch to the bug17:07
rodrigo_you might have to rebase it again, as soon as the reverted commits come back :)17:08
didrockswell, if it's one line, it will be ok :)17:08
rodrigo_seb128, what's the bug #?17:08
didrocksrodrigo_: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60841917:09
ubot2didrocks: Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=608419)17:09
seb128rodrigo_, should I package 2.91.2 anyway or should I wait for a fixed version?17:10
rodrigo_seb128, the new g-s-d would need that 2.91.2, so yes, package it if it's not too much work17:10
rodrigo_bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty17:30
rodrigo_hmm, so what file do I need to edit to make bzr know about natty?17:31
devildanterodrigo_: maybe you should need to wait until alpha117:31
devildantemaybe :17:31
rodrigo_devildante, I'm already on natty17:31
devildante"maybe you should need to wait until alpha1"17:31
devildantealpha1 is the key word17:31
rodrigo_devildante, hmm, not sure I get it, what do you mean?17:32
devildanterodrigo_: afaik, alpha1 is not out yet17:32
devildanteor am I stupid?17:32
rodrigo_devildante, no, you're not, you're very clever, but since I'm already on natty, and I can build natty packages just fine, I guess it's bzr who's the stupid one :D17:33
rodrigo_this is from bzr merge-upstream17:33
rodrigo_bzr bd builds natty packages fine17:33
dobeyrodrigo_: weird17:37
didrocksrodrigo_: you can edit /usr/share/pyshared/bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/util.py17:37
didrocksadd natty to UBUNTU_RELEASES17:37
rodrigo_didrocks, ah, ok17:38
rodrigo_didrocks, right, that made it, thanks17:39
rodrigo_didrocks, but why bzr bd didn0't need that, and merge-upstream does?17:39
seb128iz james_w bog17:39
seb128rodrigo_, I've uploaded the new gnome-desktop17:39
rodrigo_seb128, ok, proposing a merge of gsettings-desktop-schemas soon17:40
didrocksrodrigo_: not sure, we should patch everything (pbuilder debuild and others…) to get one reference, that would be nice :)17:40
rodrigo_didrocks, right17:40
rodrigo_seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gsettings-desktop-schemas/0_1_1_release/+merge/4107517:45
rodrigo_seb128, btw, for source package branches, is the merge proposal the correct way?17:45
rodrigo_since they include all upstream changes, it makes the diffs quite big17:45
rodrigo_I just changed debian/changelog :)17:45
seb128- <default>'dmz-aa'</default>17:46
seb1281494+ <default>'Adwaita'</default>17:46
rodrigo_seb128, and do they need to be merged to lp:ubuntu/... branch, or that gets done automatically when the package is uploaded and accepted17:46
seb128rodrigo_, do we want to revert that? or use a theme we ship at least?17:46
seb128rodrigo_, it's done automatically on upload17:46
mterryseb128, do you know of any reason I shouldn't update devhelp as part of the anjuta situation?  anjuta is its library's only rdepends, but I'm wondering if we know of any conflict around webkit or whatever17:46
rodrigo_yes, Adwaita is a gtk3 theme, afaik17:47
seb128mterry, I don't know about any reason no but I don't know really know what is happening on that17:47
mterryseb128, OK, will investigate17:47
seb128mterry, ok17:48
seb128rodrigo_, approved17:48
rodrigo_seb128, ok, so do I upload it now?17:48
seb128rodrigo_, we will need to make sure we tweak the gsettings default for theme etc when we start having gtk3 softwares built17:49
seb128rodrigo_, yes17:49
rodrigo_seb128, we might need some gsettings stuff like the .gconf-defaults thing17:50
rodrigo_ok, uploaded now17:50
rodrigo_oh, rejected -> Rejected:17:52
rodrigo_The signer of this package is lacking the upload rights for the source package, component or package set in question.17:52
rodrigo_it's not part of ubuntu-desktop?17:52
rodrigo_seb128, didrocks: so, when you have time, can you do the upload, please?17:54
rodrigo_I need to go now, so bbl17:54
didrocksok, enough for today, see you tomorrow (rodrigo_ ping me if you fixed everything listed above tomorrow morning)18:08
mterryjames_w, what was the page to see if there are bzr import errors for certain packages?18:20
mterryI'm going to bookmark it this time18:20
mterryhttp://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ !18:21
mterryjames_w, I'm interested in this failure: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/libunique.html#2010-02-22%2001:00:33.16214918:22
mterryseb128, no one has claimed libunique3 right?  anjuta wants that, and it will probably need to be a new source18:26
seb128mterry, no, but I'm surprised I though that was deprecated with gtk318:27
mterryseb128, arguably yes.  But it's provided as a crutch while GtkApplication stabilizes and to ease the transition18:28
seb128mterry, ok, it's all yours then ;-)18:28
mterryseb128, hopefully a one-cycle kind of package18:28
=== bratsche is now known as bratsche-afk
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away
=== oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann
dobeyLaney: i already added the schme handler mime types to firefox.desktop, so it correctly opens firefox; but the calling app blocks until the command has exitied, it seems.19:47
dobeyand for some reason, that seems to take some time :(19:52
=== bratsche-afk is now known as bratsche
kenvandinemterry, around?21:37
chrisccoulsonhurry up internet!21:40
mterrykenvandine, yah21:40
chrisccoulsonuploading a 60MB tarball is too slow21:40
kenvandinemterry, great... having a problem with dbusmenu21:40
kenvandinenot even gtk3 related21:40
kenvandinejust trying to build it for gtk2 i am getting tons of errors, conflicts of definitions between GIR and vapigen21:41
kenvandineGdk-2.0.gir:21644.7-21644.6: error: `Gdk' already contains a definition for `utf8_to_string_target'21:41
kenvandine      <parameters>21:41
kenvandine      21:41
kenvandinegdk-2.0.vapi:2015.2-2015.51: note: previous definition of `utf8_to_string_target' was here21:41
kenvandinepublic static unowned string utf8_to_string_target (string str);21:41
kenvandinelike that21:41
kenvandineseen anything like that?21:41
mterrykenvandine, yes...  In my case it was a bug with vapigen that a function like foo_new_target_name and foo_target_name were conflicting with same error.  Doesn't quite look like yours is a 'new' namespace issue though21:42
kenvandineif i remove some includes from the GIR file it is quieter21:42
kenvandinebut of course then it can't find things it needs21:43
mterryoh wait.  why is the gir aware of the vapi file?21:43
kenvandinetedg, says it works on maverick21:43
kenvandineit uses the GIR to generate the vapi21:43
mterrywell, mav was vala-0.10, I believe21:43
kenvandine/usr/bin/vapigen --library=DbusmenuGtk-0.2 --pkg gdk-pixbuf-2.0 --pkg gtk+-2.0  --pkg atk --pkg Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2 --vapidir=../libdbusmenu-glib DbusmenuGtk-0.2.tmp.gir21:43
kenvandineis what it runs21:43
mterrykenvandine, I don't believe vala-0.12's gir support is 100% yet, but the goal would be that you don't need to generate vapis anymore if you have a gir.  So if you don't have active consumers of it yet...21:44
mterrykenvandine, OK, I think I see what happened21:45
kenvandinetedg, do you know if anyone is using dbusmenu's vapi?  unity maybe?21:45
tedgkenvandine, I'm not sure.  Well, anyone using the libindicate VAPI would by inclusion.21:45
mterrykenvandine, Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2 is pulling in Gdk-2.0.gir as a dependency and gtk+-2.0 is pulling in gdk-2.0.vapi21:45
mterrykenvandine, it looks like valac doesn't have such conflict resolution.  So it may be an all or nothing gir or vapi21:46
tedgmterry, The odd part is that it did on 0.10....21:46
kenvandineso dropping the Gtk include line in the GIR it is much cleaner21:46
tedgSo it seems that it has to be a 0.12 bug21:46
kenvandinebut then it fails to find one function from gtk21:47
kenvandineso 900 failures in one direction, and 1 failure the other way :)21:47
mterrykenvandine, if you convert the other --pkg includess to be gir includes, does that work?  (probably not, but...)21:47
mterryso like Gtk-2.0 and GdkPixbuf-2.0 etc21:47
* kenvandine tries21:47
TheMusochrisccoulson: You have never had to upload ia32-libs then.21:50
* mterry suspects that valac can't handle the full glory of Gtk-2.0 yet21:50
chrisccoulsonTheMuso, i have ;)21:50
chrisccoulsonbut i did that from ronne :)21:51
TheMusoOk then stop complaining. :)21:51
chrisccoulsonheh :)21:51
TheMusoOh ok21:51
kenvandinemuch cleaner21:51
kenvandineGio-2.0.gir:35338.9-35338.8: error: `SimpleAsyncResult' already contains a definition for `take_error'21:51
* TheMuso has uploaded ia32-libs on a DSL line with 384kbps upstream at one point. That was an overnight job.21:51
kenvandineso it is down to 1 conflict21:51
micahgchrisccoulson: speaking of 60MB tarballs have you done any testing on maverick with that build?21:52
chrisccoulsonmicahg - nope ;)21:52
micahgchrisccoulson: more fun for me I guess :)21:52
chrisccoulsonmicahg - you might want to base firefox-next on what is in the dailies atm. i had to revert quite a bit of stuff for natty :(21:53
mterrykenvandine,  that's my error!  :)  there's a bugzilla bug for that one21:53
mterrykenvandine, I don't know the workaround for it though21:53
micahgchrisccoulson: hmm, I guess that's a good point, otherwise, I'll have to do funny upgrade magic21:53
mterrykenvandine, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63458821:53
ubot2Gnome bug 634588 in Bindings "Gio-2.0.gir 'take_error' parse error" [Normal,Unconfirmed]21:54
chrisccoulsonmicahg - yeah, and firefox-trunk is what i *want* the packaging to look like :)21:54
chrisccoulsonit's just a shame i can't make it work properly21:54
mterrykenvandine, Jürg's comment is a bit terse.  Not sure whether it's being worked on21:56
kenvandinemterry, so no work around yet...21:56
kenvandinei was just going to say that21:56
mterrykenvandine, what's the one thing it complains about if you drop the gtk include from the gir?21:57
kenvandinei have to actually remove several things to get down to the one error21:58
kenvandinethere are actually two errors, but just one from gtk21:58
kenvandinei'll have to try again to get it21:58
seb128kenvandine, mterry: you can maybe try asking #vala about the issue?21:59
kenvandinehey seb12821:59
seb128kenvandine, hey22:00
seb128robert_ancell, hello22:00
seb128robert_ancell, there?22:00
seb128robert_ancell, how are you?22:01
seb128robert_ancell, I didn't have time to work on rb today, what error did you get?22:01
seb128I can have a go to it tomorrow22:02
seb128was that a build issue or run time issue?22:02
robert_ancellseb128, build issue, can't remember what it was22:02
seb128I will try tomorrow22:02
seb128robert_ancell, otherwise I tried nautilus22:03
robert_ancellI think it was a linker issue (there have been a lot of those due to the --as-needed change) but I couldn't work out why it was occurring22:03
seb128it's having issues which I think could be due to gtk version conflicts22:03
robert_ancellseb128, oh, does it not run?22:03
seb128robert_ancell, using .so which have gtk symbols (I think) take it down22:03
seb128like try to open the properties of a video or pdf file22:04
seb128those which are just adding a context menu entry seems to be ok22:04
seb128rodrigo_, mterry: ^22:04
seb128(if you followed that discussion the other day)22:04
robert_ancelldo you know if that's a plugin?22:04
seb128yes, those a .so installed by totem or evince22:04
* robert_ancell boots his vm22:04
seb128ls /usr/lib/nautilus/...22:04
robert_ancellright, so we need them updated too22:05
seb128ok, that's what I though22:05
seb128it's difficult to know what to do22:06
robert_ancellhmm, I just tried the example content and that worked ok22:06
kenvandineDbusmenuGtk-0.2.tmp.gir:0.0-0.0: error: The type name `Gtk.MenuClass' could not be found22:06
kenvandineDbusmenuGtk-0.2.tmp.gir:0.0-0.0: error: The type name `Dbusmenu.ClientClass' could not be found22:06
kenvandinemterry, that is the other error22:06
seb128robert_ancell, do you get a video tab?22:06
seb128is totem installed?22:06
mterrykenvandine, well, presumably the Dbusmenu one could go away by including its vapi file as a --pkg.  I'm not sure why the gtk+-2.0 vapi file doesn't have Gtk.MenuClass?22:07
robert_ancellno totem22:07
seb128robert_ancell, ok, install it22:07
seb128or try on a pdf if you have evince22:07
robert_ancellthere isn't a PDF handy on this vm22:07
seb128open a firefox and google for one?22:08
robert_ancellright, got the crash opening a video22:08
robert_ancellI'll update totem and evince in the PPA today22:08
seb128I didn't debug much22:08
kenvandineso we need to figure out the Gio thing... i'll try to look into that later tonight22:09
seb128but I've the feeling it's the gtk version mismatch22:09
kenvandinei gotta run for a bit22:09
seb128kenvandine, what gio?22:09
kenvandinethe GIR problem22:09
ubot2Gnome bug 634588 in Bindings "Gio-2.0.gir 'take_error' parse error" [Normal,Unconfirmed]22:09
robert_ancellI'll respond to your email, but this is the sort of thing I'm worried about if we include any GNOME3 apps, they really will drag in eachother22:09
seb128kenvandine, oh ok22:09
seb128robert_ancell, I've been trying to build a comprehensive list of what brings what in the whiteboard22:10
kenvandineseb128, i'll be getting a late start tomorrow, parent teacher conference... in case anyone is looking for me :)22:10
robert_ancellseb128, yeah I've been following that22:10
robert_ancellTheMuso, RAOF, meeting?22:10
* kenvandine waves!22:10
seb128kenvandine, ok22:10
seb128kenvandine, see you tomorrow!22:10
seb128robert_ancell, well it makes me nervous as well, we can either go for it and deal with issues as they come22:10
seb128robert_ancell, or keep things in the ppa and keep working on those sets of things which need to go together until mid-cycle22:11
seb128then we need to decide22:11
robert_ancellseb128, I think the latter is safest22:11
seb128but we will probably have a comprehensive idea of what are the sets and the changes by then22:11
robert_ancellseb128, perhaps we should encourage people to use the PPA so we get good testing22:11
RAOFrobert_ancell: Yup.22:11
* robert_ancell reads the notes from the western ed.22:12
seb128robert_ancell, you do your meetings one day later than us now?22:12
seb128the meeting yesterday was very light in any case, jasoncwarner go screwed by the dst and calendars22:13
seb128so he missed it22:13
robert_ancellSo I've just been working on GNOME2.32 stuff and GNOME3 stuff.  Getting GNOME 2.32.1 into natty, and 2.91 into a PPA so we can test it.  Just lots of stuff to work through22:13
seb128and we didn't have lot to cover otherwise22:13
robert_ancellseb128, yes, not sure why we're one day late, I propose we move it back22:13
robert_ancellI'm working towards getting the latest Yelp into the PPA so TheMuso can test it for a11y coverage22:14
chrisccoulsonexcellent, i've finished all my work items for beta 1 :)22:14
TheMusorobert_ancell: Sounds good.22:14
robert_ancellWe're really keen to use it because the current yelp is not good22:14
TheMusoI second the proposal to move the meeting back a day, I'll just see if Jason is able to do so...22:15
TheMusoYeah I can understand that.22:15
robert_ancellTheMuso, how is a11y going in general?22:15
seb128chrisccoulson, congrats ;-)22:15
robert_ancell(and sound)22:15
seb128robert_ancell, I would say the current version is so slow it's not usable anyway22:15
robert_ancellseb128, agreed22:15
seb128so it's either useless for everybody or useless if you need accessiblity22:15
chrisccoulsonhmm, anybody know when we get the first language packs for natty?22:16
seb128so I would say to upgrade even if it's an a11y regression22:16
seb128chrisccoulson, you should check with dpm and pitti tomorrow but I'm not sure rosetta is open yet for natty22:16
chrisccoulsonthat's ok then. gives me a bit of time to get the ff-4.0 translations ready22:16
TheMusorobert_ancell: a11y is going ok, you may have seen my reply to Seb's mail about webkit, mentioning at-spi via dbus.22:17
TheMusoI have been testing the dbus implementation, and performance is a major issue that needs sorting out.22:17
seb128TheMuso, did you get any upstream reply on whether somebody is adressing those speed issues? or if at least they are known issues?22:17
TheMusoseb128: Nothing yet. They are known issues, but nothing about addressing them yet.,22:17
TheMusoI poked one of the devs on IRC< but I'll also send an email to the list.22:18
seb128ok, let us know if,when they reply22:18
TheMusoWill do.22:18
robert_ancellRAOF, how is X land?  Also, do you know about the version of banshee in natty?22:19
seb128robert_ancell, 1.9 got uploaded today22:19
robert_ancelloh, it just got updated :)22:19
TheMusoOh and sound wise, nothing really drastic, just status quo, pulling fixes from upstream for pulse, triaging audio bugs. :)22:19
RAOFOk, I don't know about the version of banshee in natty, then :)22:19
TheMusoBut since I am rotating I won't be giving as much to sound this cycle.22:19
robert_ancellTheMuso, cool. ok22:20
seb128robert_ancell, did you try the new g-c-c in the ppa yet?22:20
robert_ancellseb128, yes, it needs some work22:20
RAOFX land is pretty much in sync with Debian.  Major version changes are waiting on the existence of major versions upstream.22:20
* Laney hears banshee and pops up22:20
Laneywaiting for mono -422:20
* Laney fades away again22:20
seb128robert_ancell, how much of an improvement do you think it is?22:20
seb128it's hard to balance issues and work against win in that GNOME3 story22:21
RAOFI'm polishing a patch for mesa to slim the DRI drivers by 30MB.22:21
robert_ancellLaney, the mono packaging seems to be well taken care of by the community, is that correct?22:21
robert_ancellseb128, not an improvement until it's all there functionality wise22:21
robert_ancellRAOF, nice :)22:21
LaneyI think so, until you hear differently ;-)22:21
seb128robert_ancell, ok, my gut feeling is that we should delay until mid-cycle and work in the ppa22:22
robert_ancellseb128, agreed22:22
seb128robert_ancell, we don't have so much to do but at some point unity work will start reaching us22:22
Laneyyou can switch the seeds now but we have 1800k or so more of savings to come with -422:22
robert_ancellseb128, I think there may be a risk of it not being finished (like the rest of GNOME3, so I wouldn't want us to be caught in that)22:22
seb128it's just taking time to get started22:22
RAOFHow much change is involved in the new g-c-c?22:22
Laneyso we thought we'd wait for that22:22
seb128RAOF, quite some, they embed the different capplets in it22:23
seb128like they started merging the nautilus automount dialog in it22:23
RAOFIs it the near-total rewrite that it appears to be?  Because some of the multimonitor WIs touch the Monitors capplet, and so are affected by which one we pick.22:23
seb128so it impacts nautilus now22:23
robert_ancellRAOF, it's got some nice design changes which are good, it's just going to take time for it all to be completed22:23
seb128they are starting working on getting the screen and power settings there22:23
robert_ancellRAOF, it's a mix of rewriting and refactoring22:23
seb128so gpm will need to be changed etc22:23
seb128robert_ancell, I'm wondering if we could make your g-s-d writes the font key in gsettings at least22:25
seb128g-s-d g-c-c rather22:25
seb128it would unblock some of the applications updates22:25
robert_ancellseb128, yes, it's worth looking at - open a bug22:25
seb128I will chat with rodrigo about it tomorrow22:25
seb128the other option is to not bother much until mid cycle and work on the ppa22:25
robert_ancellRAOF, TheMuso, ok, that's my attempt at running a meeting.  Are you guys familiar with Scrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28development%29#Meetings) - I'm thinking of proposing that as a meeting structure22:26
seb128until we start to get unity tasks22:26
TheMusoNot familiar with it, but will have a read.22:26
robert_ancellseb128, I think the PPA is our best investment.  And yes, we might just have to drop it when Unity comes :)22:26
seb128robert_ancell, ok, let's do the meeting thing and then we can go back to chatting about GNOME if we want22:26
robert_ancellseb128, I think we're done, anyone else got something to say?22:26
RAOFAt what point will we know whether or not the new g-c-c is going in natty?  Because that'll determine whether I hack on the existing monitors capplet, or the (quite different) new one.22:27
seb128robert_ancell, this scrum structure seems rather apprioriate for a team working on the same things22:27
seb128by a quick glance on the wiki22:28
seb128like the unity team22:28
seb128it would not really fit people working on let's say, GNOME, X, firefox22:28
* TheMuso agrees.22:28
seb128RAOF, join the list of people asking, some of the dx changes are pending on that as well22:28
seb128which is one of the reasons why I would like us to decide early if we cdan22:29
robert_ancellRAOF, probably mid-cycle, but it's worth hedging your bets and adding a patch to the PPA if it's a small amount of work22:29
seb128RAOF, I would do the patch for the new version and declare it will land next cycle if it happens that doesn't land this cycle22:29
seb128lot of users will run the GNOME3 ppa imho anyway if that's not landing in natty22:29
RAOFYeah, that's the guaranteed least-work scenario.22:30
robert_ancellI'm thinking scrum precisely because we practically none of our work overlaps, we just inform eachother of what's happening and if anyone can help out.  The scrum structure just seems an efficient way of communicating that22:30
robert_ancell(I'm only referring to the daily scrum part on the wiki)22:31
seb128that seems approriate for daily meetings22:32
seb128like the dx team is doing22:32
seb128they do a short summary call every morning with what they did22:32
robert_ancellseb128, can you explain how they do there ones?22:32
seb128what they are blocked on22:32
seb128what they do next22:32
seb128they go through the team members, a few minutes each22:32
RAOFFWIW, I wouldn't *mind* a daily 15 minute meeting, but I don't think it'd be particularly fruitful.22:33
seb128and each teach member list what he has been working on, what issue he has, and what he will work on next22:33
cyphermoxrobert_ancell, seb128: that's more or less what we do by adding what we've worked on in the wiki for the weekly meetings22:33
seb128well it's useful for dx because lot of those guys work on the same code22:33
seb128it's a bit less useful if you work on X and GNOME for example22:34
seb128the overlap is quite small usually22:34
cyphermoxI know (from speaking with mathiaz) that the server team heavily uses a lot of these techniques, it could be interesting to know more about how they hold their meetings ;)22:34
seb128you also need to be in the same timezones to do that22:34
robert_ancellcyphermox, do you find the wiki list useful?  I find it a little dense for reading a weeks worth at once22:35
seb128robert_ancell, the foundation team used (still do?) to do something similar for their weekly meeting22:35
seb128we did it for a while as well in the desktop team22:35
cyphermoxrobert_ancell, I agree. just saying I guess it was the point, though it's missing blockers and stuff, which we'd cover in the irc meeting AOB, my guess22:35
seb128(or maybe that was when there was only one distro team)22:35
seb128going to the team members22:35
seb128having each members giving a few bullet points of the noticable things of the week22:36
seb128things that he,she worked on or that could interest other people22:36
seb128we just had issues that if you give 3 minutes each and you have 10 people to go through it's taking a while and not so interesting compared to just read the activity reports22:37
robert_ancellThe other thing, is the eastern edition being behind the main meeting means we're not really making decisions in it.  If you accumulated a weeks worth of daily standups and brought those to the western edition it would be more useful22:37
seb128robert_ancell, do you try to solve and issue or just make the meetings useful?22:37
Zdrahi, any idea how I can get theming working with gtk3 app? I've backporter the gtk3 pacakge on maverick22:38
seb128and -> an22:38
seb128Zdra, there is nothing to do, just install a gtk3 theme22:38
robert_ancellseb128, making them more worthwhile, and making sure they meet the goal of communicating to everyone (including those not at the meeting) what we're working on, what the problems are22:38
seb128Zdra, you probably need the gtk engine for the theme you need built on gtk322:38
seb128Zdra, you need a gtkrc in the gtk3 path as well22:38
seb128natty has both of those22:39
robert_ancellZdra, you just need to symlink /usr/share/themes/*/gtk-2.0 to gtk-3.022:39
seb128you need to build the engine for gtk3 as well22:39
seb128robert_ancell, do you think we need a meeting for that?22:39
seb128the issue with meetings are the timezones22:39
seb128not sure if we could solve that by changing the activity report format or the weekly wiki page22:40
RAOFrobert_ancell: Do you mean having a daily eastern edition and then batching that up for the weekly western one?22:40
robert_ancellRAOF, yes22:40
seb128robert_ancell, we don't really decide anything in meeting btw22:40
seb128we just usually try to do a status update22:41
robert_ancellseb128, the issue is also scaling - even if we were all in one timezone the meeting wouldn't be more effective.  And the weekly summary is too big I think22:41
robert_ancellRAOF, note it might not necessarily be daily, but I think that's worth trying (considering it's only 15 mins)22:42
seb128do you think we should have one summary for everybody?22:42
Zdraseb128, robert_ancell: thx22:43
robert_ancellseb128, of the most important things to keep the list digestable.  Perhaps a list of "good things" (i.e. new stuff) and "bad things" (i.e. problems to be solved)22:43
RAOFWhat is the purpose of the summary?22:43
seb128ok, so not an activity report summary22:43
seb128but rather a "things other people should know"22:43
robert_ancellRAOF, to communicate to the team what is going on, so we have good visibility and can help eachother out with problems22:43
seb128things which will affect them or where you might need help from someone?22:43
seb128like don't dump the list of GNOME point release updates we did22:44
seb128but things like "gtk3 landed, we need to update those..."22:44
* jasoncwarner back22:44
seb128hey jasoncwarner22:44
RAOFWhich means the "good things", "bad things" lists might be a more effective way of communicating?22:44
seb128jasoncwarner, ^ you should read the few screens backlog22:45
robert_ancellso, I'd expect something like this.  There is a list that everyone in the team can easily read (and including people in the community).  I contains new things you might want to know about (e.g. unity now available) and issues (like having problems with upgrading this package, and investigating)22:45
jasoncwarnerfwiw (catching up on conversation) that is how I used to try to run meetings ... when we had an india operation and a Phoenix one...local teams would do daily standups and send summaries to other team. summaries were things like22:45
seb128jasoncwarner, it's an interesting topic, would be nice to have your opinion22:45
jasoncwarner1. we did x, y and z22:45
jasoncwarner2. we are blocked on this, need help22:45
seb128jasoncwarner, ignore me, seems you did already ;-)22:45
seb128well that work fine for dx for example because they have full teams working on the same things22:46
jasoncwarnerseb128: yup22:46
seb128like the india and the phoenix team have high bandwith communication and a status on one project22:47
jasoncwarnerseb128: we had two teams, 12 hours apart, working on the same code base22:47
jasoncwarnerdifferent here22:47
seb128I know I've been trying recently to keep communication going for the GNOME3 updates22:47
robert_ancellhere we're both working simultaneously on the same thing (ubuntu) and nothing (very little of our day-to-day work overlaps)22:47
seb128but it's not easy22:47
seb128I send emails on random topics and Cc people who I think are useful to have in the conversation22:48
seb128usually robert_ancell, rodrigo_, mterry and sometime some others22:48
seb128but I feel it's suboptimal22:48
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, we have a mini GNOME team within desktop now it seems22:48
robert_ancellI feel like it must be really hard for the community to get visibility into what we do22:48
seb128I've been thinking about that and I tried to update the blueprint whiteboard regularly22:49
seb128but that's still suboptimal22:49
robert_ancellhow about we take a meeting task to discuss this at the sprint?  I think it would be easier to plan this in a high-bandwidth environment22:49
seb128robert_ancell, well, are you interested by what happens in Xorg or firefox?22:49
rickspencer3the team meetings don't take of it?22:49
jasoncwarnerhow much information is comprised in that list, seb128? for instance, like, what is useful out of your day-to-day that you would like a broader audience to know about.?22:49
robert_ancellseb128, yes22:49
robert_ancellseb128, because sometime what xorg does affects me (so I need to be prepared), and other times there are things in xorg that I have an opinion on (because it affects me) or I can help out with (because I might randomly have some skills/interests there).  And the same vice-versa I assume?22:50
seb128rickspencer3, well, we have different things to covert there, weekly status update, activity tracking from a manager perspective, communication with interested people22:50
seb128robert_ancell, right, but that for sure doesn't happen every day or week22:51
seb128usually it's like "new xserver abi breakage will happen in 2 months"22:51
seb128and there is not a lot of things in those 2 months that impact what we do22:51
seb128it's just standard edger updates, merges on debian, bug fixing, etc22:52
rickspencer3maybe having an Eastern and Western Edition is not quite the right factoring?22:52
robert_ancellseb128, sure, and that's ok because if nothing interesting is happening it doesn't need to be in the list (or maybe we just have a placeholder - X maintenance)22:52
rickspencer3like you could have a GNOME edition and an everything else edition?22:52
rickspencer3are any of the GNOMEy folks based in the US?22:52
rickspencer3(just an idea to throw out)22:53
seb128well seems we have several communications needs22:53
seb128we need a way to let people have an idea of what's happening22:53
seb128and we need higher bandwith talks for subteams22:53
seb128like GNOME22:53
seb128those are 2 different things imho22:53
robert_ancellrickspencer3, I think having the one meeting is useful because the meeting is about the Ubuntu product, not so much the specific technologies.  We already have informal GNOME meetings on IRC22:53
seb128they don't fit in the same meeting format22:53
robert_ancellseb128, agreed22:54
robert_ancellrickspencer3, regarding eastern vs. western - I think that's just unavoidable if we want to sleep :)22:54
RAOFThis makes sense to me.22:54
rickspencer3robert_ancell, well, Europe + Aus work, and US + Aus works, but Europe + US + Aus does not work22:55
rickspencer3just saying22:55
rickspencer3anyway, I was just throwing it out there22:55
seb128I think one thing we learnt from years and meeting format is that real time meeting for status update are not the right format22:56
seb128it's hard to get people together and usually it turns to be boring22:56
seb128it's easier to read status updates somewhere online at your convenient time when you start your day22:57
robert_ancellseb128, right, that's the idea with the fixed 15 min timeframe in scrum, but this would certainly be harder in the western edition22:57
rickspencer3but meetings mean people can ask questions easy, and everyone can see the question and answer22:57
seb128right, meetings are useful22:57
seb128they are just not useful for status updates imho22:58
robert_ancellrickspencer3, and that's the downside of the meeting split, because sometimes the questions need to cross hemispheres22:58
seb128they are useful to have dynamic interactions and discussions22:58
rickspencer3robert_ancell, right, thus my suggestion that there may be a chance that a functional split may be doable22:58
seb128or we should try to have subteams meeting with interested people every now and then or when required22:59
Sarvatthas anyone with an intel GPU on natty noticed any screen freezing problems?22:59
seb128Sarvatt, I didn't22:59
rickspencer3Sarvatt, I have i965, have been running Natty for 24 hours, no freezes22:59
SarvattRAOF: disable page flip patch might still be needed (see #intel-gfx) :(22:59
seb128robert_ancell, we sort of do that in the western land22:59
seb128robert_ancell, we start all around the same time, give or take 1 hour23:00
seb128and we do chat a lot on IRC23:00
RAOFSarvatt: Yeah, seen that.  But it's much, much better now, 'cause everyone hasn't been screaming :)23:00
seb128we tend to start the day by saying hello and checking how people are doing23:00
seb128it's not a formal meeting23:00
robert_ancellseb128, is it getting harder with the team getting bigger?23:00
seb128but I usually know what most of the people on the chan do in the hour I join23:00
robert_ancellseb128, yes, but you seem to know everything that's going on anyway, you have some sort of implant ;)23:01
Sarvattthanks, if anyone does please yell at RAOF or me because we know the "fix" :)23:01
seb128robert_ancell, lol23:01
AmaranthWow some of you are here rather late23:02
seb128robert_ancell, but yeah, I'm spending time reading quite some channel and trying to engage people to know what's going onj23:02
robert_ancellseb128, I haven't the patience for that, I need clear summaries :)23:02
SarvattRAOF: yeah but we aren't even at A1 yet this time around so testing is kind of limited, we have exactly 0 natty bugs in the work queue :)23:02
seb128I've to admit it's suboptimal23:02
seb128robert_ancell, ok, can we turn that in action items? ;-)23:02
seb128robert_ancell, do you want to suggest goals and way to achieve those and get those on the agenda for the next meeting?23:03
robert_ancellseb128, I'd like to see the output of the meetings being more publically useful, i.e. sites like OMG could use it to say "this is what's happening" (as opposed to some of the hearsay that occurs now) and new contributors could find out what is happening and how they could fit in23:04
robert_ancellseb128, ues23:04
robert_ancellI'll summarise this in email and send it to the desktop list23:04
seb128robert_ancell, well, do we need meeting for that? or is that some additional?23:04
robert_ancellseb128, I think I'll raise the ideas on email, and propose we discuss it at the sprint?  It's not optimal because it's not an open event, so we should perhaps also do something at the next UDS23:05
seb128I'm mainly brainstorming at this point23:06
seb128but I think we need different things23:06
robert_ancellsure, me too23:06
seb128we need a common time with people around where we can discuss things23:06
robert_ancellWe need to capture the list of "why are we having meetings and what do we produce from them"23:06
seb128that's the main purpose of the meetings we have now23:06
seb128but we also need a better way to communicate what's going on23:06
seb128what are the issues23:07
seb128and maybe what people could help on23:07
jasoncwarnerseb128: those are the two key points, which IMO are a bit distinct.23:07
seb128that's why I suggest the meeting is fine as it is now23:07
seb128it's a common time to have people together for questions or discussions23:07
jasoncwarnersomething else we did was have functional team meetings, like rickspencer3 said, and then have a representative present at the other team meetings so give input23:07
seb128but we don't address the second part23:07
robert_ancellperhaps we could define what gets written into the wiki more clearly, to increase the quality of the output23:08
jasoncwarnerthis allowed not everyone to need to goto all themeetings, but still put the various teams together.23:08
seb128we will have an hard time for that23:08
seb128we have GNOME team people in europe, us and .au23:08
seb128it's hard to have me, rodrigo_, mterry and robert_ancell together23:09
seb128like I usually need to come back at 11pm when I want to chat with robert_ancell23:09
seb128or I would need to wake earlier23:09
seb128robert_ancell, well, we should first define the role of the activity reports23:10
jasoncwarnersomething I asked robert_ancell was if there was a way to update someones IRC status to say what they were working on. Perhaps not IRC, but some other simple mechanism (simple b/c otherwise people won't do it) that says 1. what they are working on 2. if they are stuck on something and 3. if they need help on something or from someone23:10
seb128they were rather meant as a way for management to track who is doing what during the week I think23:10
seb128not as a way to communicate what we are doing to other people23:10
robert_ancelljasoncwarner, rickspencer3, so, as management, are the activity reports useful?23:11
rickspencer3robert_ancell, they were to me, yes23:11
jasoncwarnerrobert_ancell: I don't know enough to judge that, for me the burndowns are what I look at everyday.  The part I look for in activity reports are blockers/blockages/challenges.23:11
rickspencer3but I expected they were generally useful, not just for me23:12
robert_ancellrickspencer3, if they were abbreviated to be easier to read, would that be a problem?23:12
rickspencer3also, I think it provided a degree of transparency to the community to see specifics23:12
jasoncwarnerrickspencer3: good point23:12
rickspencer3robert_ancell, well, that would be hypothetical, it's not really in my domain anymore, it's jasoncwarner's problem now ;)23:12
rickspencer3I also think they are good to write, as it keeps you cognizant about making progress on specific goals23:13
RAOFjasoncwarner: Some form of status.net thing would work for that; for bonus points, hook in something like hamster.23:13
seb128jasoncwarner, <jasoncwarner> something I asked robert_ancell was if there was a way to update someones IRC status to say what they were working on.23:13
rickspencer3so, generally, a good practice23:13
seb128jasoncwarner, I don't think IRC is the right medium23:13
jasoncwarnerseb128: probably not23:13
seb128I was suggesting to robert_ancell to try something like etherpad last week23:14
rickspencer3status.net is exactly for that kind of task, I think23:14
seb128gobby like but on a website23:14
* jasoncwarner looks up status.net23:14
robert_ancellI feel with the status reports, if you're working on maintenance then you feel compelled to list all the packages that you updated, but it's overly detailed and just fills the reports with fluff23:14
JanCstatus.net is teh software behind identi.ca (twitter-like)23:14
jasoncwarneris this like twitter but without all the 4square garbage? ;)23:15
seb128robert_ancell, well I do it because I use the report as a way to tell my manager that I didn't slack during the week :p23:15
RAOFThere's a canonical status.net instance, isn't there?  We wouldn't want a private one, but it suggests that it wouldn't be hard to set up?23:15
robert_ancellseb128, yes, which is the exact sort of work that's counterproductive!23:15
seb128robert_ancell, which brings back to the question of the audiance for the report23:15
robert_ancellseb128, and I propose that team members and the community are the most important audience23:16
robert_ancellseb128, etherpad might be a really good medium for this, in that we write the report duing the week, and edit it as we go23:16
robert_ancelland post the final copy to the wiki23:17
RAOFWe already have weekly 1-1 meetings with Jason and a burn-down chart; does that cover all the manager-visibility required?23:17
robert_ancellseb128, in this way, if you want the high bandwidth info, you follow the pad, otherwise you just read the edited wiki version23:18
jasoncwarnerRAOF: I don't need more, personally, if I do I will ask (I'm not shy). My feeling is that the weekly meetings were a digest for the community and other groups23:18
jasoncwarnerlike, I'll read what is going on in the other teams just to see if something will impact our team or if I have an interest/knowledge of an area where I might be able to offer insight23:19
* TheMuso notes he has trouble with etherpad and orca/firefox, due to it being a live update, should be it be used collaboratively.23:19
seb128robert_ancell, well I guess it's useful in a distributed environement to have somewhat a detailed view of what people do, otherwise it's hard to see who is working or not23:19
seb128robert_ancell, not my call though, I will happily do what jasoncwarner asks us to do23:19
seb128RAOF, right, there is a canonical one23:19
seb128jasoncwarner, it seems so, I don't know enough about it to comment ;-)23:19
seb128TheMuso, you have trouble with dynamic editing?23:20
JanCseb128: rather Orca has issues with it23:20
seb128TheMuso, the notes from our team will probably mean it will be edited a few minutes a day23:21
TheMusoseb128: In a browser, because the screen reader has to refresh its knowledge of the page layout/text boxes, which usually throws one back at the top of the page.23:21
seb128I guess you could open it once a day and copy paste to a text editor to read it23:21
seb128I don't think it's going to be dynamic enough to be an issue to follow23:22
seb128robert_ancell, jasoncwarner, RAOF: ok, so seems we have an agreement that activity report should be community focussed23:22
seb128ie be useful to let people what's going on23:22
TheMusoseb128: yeah makes sense, that should be manageable.23:23
seb128jasoncwarner, can you communicate that to the team?23:23
seb128email, or next week meeting topic I guess23:23
jasoncwarnerseb128: sure...figured I would summarize this in an email for the team and to solicit feedback on format.23:23
jasoncwarnerseb128: probably both :)23:23
robert_ancellI'm taking that action23:23
rickspencer3status .net has a super easy API, and an rss feed23:24
seb128seems robert_ancell was going to do that23:24
rickspencer3so writing tools for it is dead simple23:24
rickspencer3it can be done quite ..23:24
rickspencer3wait for it ..23:24
seb128ok, so next thing to sort then is where to take note23:25
seb128etherpad, status.net, ...23:25
seb128I've no strong opinion there23:25
JanCTheMuso: seems like it's possible to export html/txt versions of an etherpad document using a fixed URL, that might be useful for you23:25
seb128I guess that can be discussed in the email discussion robert_ancell will start23:25
jasoncwarnerseb128: yeah23:25
TheMusoJanC: yes that would.23:26
rickspencer3dang, I wish the tubes API was easier to use23:26
JanCe.g. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/test --> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ep/pad/export/test/latest?format=txt23:26
rickspencer3it would be fun to write up a collaboration app for this23:26
seb128rickspencer3, don't reinvent gobby ;-)23:26
rickspencer3seb128, well, I think it's not gobby23:26
RAOFUnless you can make it work, of course!23:27
rickspencer3it would be fun to add features like being draw, put on images, in addition to text, but also have it be a timeline23:27
RAOFSome of that funky diffing from UDS-M would be awesome.23:28
=== johanbr_ is now known as johanbr
chrisccoulsonwould somebody mind approving xulrunner-2.0 once it appears in the NEW queue? :)23:30
seb128chrisccoulson, I'm about to go to bed but I will do it first thing tomorrow if pitti or something else doesn't beat me to it23:31
chrisccoulsonseb128 - cool, thanks23:31
chrisccoulsoni think i might call it a night in a bit23:31
chrisccoulsonbefore everybody starts telling me their browser is broken ;)23:31
seb128yeah, it's late enough, I'm going to bed now23:32
seb128'night everybody23:32
jasoncwarnerseb128: night!23:32
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
JanCRAOF: that was cool indeed, but would need porting from Mac OS X to Ubuntu first  ;)23:38
RAOFYeah, well.  I'm sure Rick has *plenty* of spare time to write an awesome animated timeline diff :)23:39
JanCmaybe sabdfl can pay her to port it (SoC-like)  ;)23:40
brycehrobert_ancell, fwiw, we did daily standup meetings on the Launchpad bugs team... it sort of made sense since we were all working on the same codebase and sometimes could share notes on issues we were stuck on... but 80% of the time it felt like we were rambling on about stuff just to fill the time.  For the desktop team, I think the amount of cross-pollenation would be minimal and the likelihood of fillage high23:41
RAOFHm, cool.  The first hail.23:42
robert_ancellbryceh, how long did the meetings go on?  This is why I was proposing the scrum format - the time is limited and it's ok so say one line if that's all that is done23:43
robert_ancell(I find IRC is an awful medium for meetings because it's very hard to tell who is active)23:43
brycehrobert_ancell, in theory they were 15 minute meetings.  In practice, we found the meetings tended to drag out for up to an hour or more a day23:44
robert_ancellbryceh, perhaps an IRC bot is needed - like the one used at UDS23:44
RAOFOr we could play with something like wave until it's turned off?23:45
brycehfwiw these meetings were via mumble23:47
bryceh(with the inevitable first 5 min spent waiting for everyone to get headphones straightened and mikes positioned and so on *grin*)23:47

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