[00:00] <RAOF> Hm.  Looks like it's using the right mode by default; can you pastebin the output of “xrandr”?
[00:02] <rickspencer3> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/533288/
[00:03] <RAOF> Is 1680x1050 the native mode of your monitor?
[00:03] <rickspencer3> I honestly do no know
[00:03] <RAOF> If you know :)
[00:03] <rickspencer3> it sounds about right
[00:04] <RAOF> It does sound about right, yeah.
[00:04] <rickspencer3> I mean, it's widescreen
[00:04] <Sarvatt> yeah it is
[00:05] <Sarvatt> is there some kind of compiz beer goggles plugin enabled by default now in natty?
[00:06] <rickspencer3> well, it's blurry without desktop effects too, if that's what you were asking Sarvatt
[00:06] <Sarvatt> everything looks fine there, I'm stumped :)
[00:06] <RAOF> Maybe a picture of the display would be useful?
[00:07] <RAOF> The obvious answers have been exhausted.
[00:07] <nisshh> rickspencer3, check to make sure you have font AA turned on after the upgrade?
[00:07] <nisshh> or has that been covered already?
[00:07] <Sarvatt> can you describe blurry any more? is there anything thats still sharp?
[00:08] <rickspencer3> nisshh, font AA? I usuall use subpixel smoothing
[00:08] <rickspencer3> Sarvatt, let me look at some pictures
[00:08] <nisshh> rickspencer3, ah, thats what i meant, subpixel smoothing
[00:08] <rickspencer3> hmm
[00:09] <rickspencer3> Sarvatt, so, hi-def pictures of my dog seem clear
[00:09] <Sarvatt> yeah I mean things like just fonts being blurry, are icons too big or anything? or is the whole screen just completely blurry
[00:09] <rickspencer3> but fonts, not so much
[00:09] <rickspencer3> and icons in nautilus look blurry too
[00:09] <rickspencer3> this is all very subjective, of course
[00:10] <RAOF> Maybe that's an icon theme problem?
[00:10] <nisshh> rickspencer3, maybe it went crazy and munted your monitor settings?
[00:10] <RAOF> nisshh: No; it looks like he's got the right resolution set.
[00:10] <Sarvatt> his monitor settings are fine
[00:12] <nisshh> RAOF, i didnt mean resolution, i mean his monitors built in settings, you know, the ones you access with the little buttons on the monitor?
[00:12] <RAOF> Maybe.  But it seems like the problem is at a level above X, as the dog pictures look OK.
[00:13] <rickspencer3> oh jeez, I just reset my monitor back to factor settings, and it looks even worse!
[00:14] <Sarvatt> rickspencer3: is there a sharpness setting in the monitor options or anything?
[00:14] <rickspencer3> Sarvatt, yeah, I already twiddled that
[00:15] <nisshh> ah ok, i was wrong then :)
[00:15] <nisshh> rickspencer3, when i said "that might be the problem" i didnt mean "reset your monitor" :)
[00:16] <rickspencer3> haha
[00:17] <rickspencer3> ya
[00:17] <rickspencer3> images are definately crystal clear
[00:17] <rickspencer3> RAOF, if it's not xorg, than what can be controlling my font rendering?
[00:18] <nisshh> rickspencer3, if i said "your monitor is fault" would you smash it? :)
[00:18] <nisshh> faultly*
[00:18] <nisshh> faulty*
[00:18] <nisshh> rickspencer3, cups?
[00:18] <rickspencer3> haha
[00:18] <rickspencer3> it's not my monitor
[00:18] <RAOF> Where shall we start? :).  Probably with gnome-settings-daemon, and the Appearence capplet.
[00:19] <RAOF> That should be where font settings for GNOME are applied.
[00:19] <nisshh> RAOF, could it be CUPS maybe?
[00:19] <nisshh> or cupsd?
[00:19] <RAOF> nisshh: How could the printer daemon be messing with display fonts?
[00:19] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[00:20] <RAOF> I don't see a plausible causal link.
[00:20] <nisshh> RAOF, oh, thats a printer daemon? i thought it had something to do with fonts :)
[00:20]  * nisshh slaps himself
[00:20] <RAOF> nisshh: Well, it does indirectly.  You print using fonts :).  CUPS == Common Unix Printing Service
[00:20] <rickspencer3> RAOF, it seems that desktop effects are not getting applied :/
[00:21] <nisshh> RAOF, right
[00:21] <RAOF> rickspencer3: So, is gnome-settings-daemon running?  Try starting it up.
[00:21] <nisshh> anyway, im heading out for a while, ill see you lot later
[00:21] <rickspencer3> bye nisshh
[00:21]  * nisshh waves
[00:25] <RAOF> Ominous.
[00:25] <RAOF> That would appear to not have been a sterling success?
[00:25] <rickspencer3> RAOF, haha
[00:25] <rickspencer3> well, I killed compiz, and then couldn't reselect my terminal to start it again
[00:25] <rickspencer3> a  bit of a self-inflicted wound
[00:26] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  Switch to VT1 and run metacity :)
[00:26] <rickspencer3> anyway gnome-settings-daemon is running
[00:28] <RAOF> And fonts are still weird.
[00:28] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:28] <rickspencer3> so compiz is running
[00:28] <rickspencer3> but I'm getting no effects!
[00:28] <rickspencer3> maybe I need some plugins
[00:29] <RAOF> You'll probably be hitting the “still don't have 0.8 → 0.9 settings transition logic”, there.
[00:29] <RAOF> Interesting.
[00:30] <RAOF> I've just started playing with Appearance→Fonts, and none of the hinting options take effect.
[00:30] <rickspencer3> RAOF, you mean the ones under "Rendering"?
[00:30] <RAOF> Yeah.
[00:31] <rickspencer3> huh
[00:31] <rickspencer3> they dramatically change for me when I switch between them
[00:31] <rickspencer3> but they are all still blurry
[00:31] <rickspencer3> I wonder if sub-pixel rendering is not actually being applied
[00:31] <RAOF> Or, rather, Monochrome works but everything else is the same.
[00:31] <rickspencer3> oh weir
[00:31] <rickspencer3> d
[00:32] <rickspencer3> for me, sub-pixel smoothing works, everything else is the same
[00:32] <rickspencer3> wrong
[00:32] <rickspencer3> Monochrome and Best shapes are different
[00:33] <rickspencer3> I mean and Best Contrast
[00:33] <rickspencer3> Best Shapes has no effect
[00:33] <rickspencer3> I wonder if sub-pixel smoothing is not being applied
[00:33] <rickspencer3> so it's essentially just turning off other options
[00:33] <RAOF> Possibly.
[00:34] <kklimonda> kenvandine: ping?
[00:34] <RAOF> You could also go a-playin' with /etc/fonts/conf.d
[00:34] <RAOF> But GNOME apps should be taking their settings from the appearance capplet.
[00:35] <rickspencer3> the problem is, if I try to log a bug, it will be maddenly vague, and no one could help will be in front of my hardware :/
[00:36]  * rickspencer3 plows ahead
[00:36] <rickspencer3> Unity time
[00:36] <RAOF> Yeah, give it a whirl.
[00:37] <rickspencer3> what could possibly go wrong?
[00:37]  * rickspencer3 considers backing up data
[00:37]  * rickspencer3 damns the torpedos
[00:37] <RAOF> Soft!
[00:37] <bryceh> rickspencer3, what's your dpi set to?
[00:38] <rickspencer3> bryceh, where do I see that?
[00:38] <rickspencer3> Monitors?
[00:38] <bryceh> System -> Appearance -> Fonts -> Details
[00:38] <RAOF> In the details button of fonts.
[00:38] <rickspencer3> 96
[00:38] <bryceh> mm, that's what it should be
[00:39] <rickspencer3> well, the subpixel smoothing is definitely having an effect
[00:40] <bryceh> we have carried a distro patch that sets subpixel smoothing defaults.  If that patch got dropped it could cause behaviors like this
[00:40] <RAOF> I think that patch still survives; my machines don't suffer from blurry fonts.
[00:40] <rickspencer3> bryceh, the default settings seemed to be correct
[00:41] <rickspencer3> I think I'll need to live with this until a domain expert hits the bug
[00:41] <rickspencer3> "fonts are blurry" doesn't seem to be much go go on
[00:42] <RAOF> Are the icons still blurry, too?
[00:42] <RAOF> It's possible that a photo of your screen will trigger an aha.
[00:43] <rickspencer3> a bit yeah
[00:52] <rickspencer3> RAOF, good point, I'll log a bug tomorrow
[01:01] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[01:01] <rickspencer3> apt-get is stuck on Unpacking replacement libglewmx1.5 ...
[01:01] <rickspencer3> :/
[01:02] <rickspencer3> not my night
[01:02] <kenvandine> kklimonda, pong
[01:03] <chrisccoulson_> rickspencer3, be thankful your dmesg isn't full of scary messages like "[Hardware Error]: Machine check events logged" ;)
[01:03] <kklimonda> kenvandine: do you have a moment?
[01:04] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson_, heh
[01:04] <rickspencer3> I've been upgrading this machine since Karmic, I think
[01:04] <rickspencer3> maybe I should try a clean install
[01:04] <chrisccoulson_> time for a reinstall ;)
[01:04] <chrisccoulson_> yeah :)
[01:05] <chrisccoulson_> i'm not sure if my issue is a real hardware problem or a bug :/
[01:05] <rickspencer3> oh well
[01:05] <kklimonda> kenvandine: at the bottom of this document there is a (partial) desktopcouch-glib api for Vala,does it make sense: http://pastebin.com/GsMCFNBt ?
[01:05] <chrisccoulson_> my laptop just can't hack the pace ;)
[01:06] <kenvandine> kklimonda, sure
[01:07] <kklimonda> kenvandine: actually does my idea of enforcing document type per database "connection" make sense?
[01:07] <kenvandine> no :)
[01:08] <kklimonda> kenvandine: I know that's how I work - putting different documents into single database have been more trouble for me then it was worth
[01:08] <kenvandine> probably true
[01:08] <kenvandine> but i think some people will expect it to handle different document types
[01:08] <kenvandine> but i assume that is want more work to deal with ?
[01:09] <kklimonda> kenvandine: they could always drop to couchdb-glib api
[01:09] <kenvandine> true
[01:09] <kenvandine> as long as you told them that
[01:09] <kenvandine> throw an exception that it isn't supported, etc
[01:09] <kklimonda> kenvandine: that's what Destkopcouch.Document.get_json_object is there for - in couchdb-glib they can do whatever they want..
[01:09] <kklimonda> right
[01:10] <kenvandine> oh... wait
[01:10] <kenvandine> but
[01:10] <kenvandine> how about dealing with things like loading design documents and views?
[01:10] <kenvandine> and retrieving those
[01:10] <kenvandine> those are document types
[01:11] <kklimonda> the problem is Desktopcouch.Response.get_documents () "inherits" document's type from Desktopcouch.Database
[01:11] <kenvandine> humm
[01:11] <kklimonda> Design Documents are a pita in general :)
[01:12] <kenvandine> not familiar with get_documents...i use get_records
[01:12] <kenvandine> and  put_record
[01:12] <kenvandine> oh... but you aren't dealing with the records api
[01:12] <kklimonda> well, get_documents would return a GList of Desktopcouch.Document
[01:12] <chrisccoulson_> wow, i can't believe my daughter is a whole year old in a few hours
[01:12] <kklimonda> I do, in couchdb-glib :)
[01:13] <kklimonda> I have CouchdbResponse.get_rows ()
[01:13] <kenvandine> i almost exclusively use the records API
[01:13] <kklimonda> which returns a GList * of JsonObjects
[01:13] <kenvandine> you should talk to aquarius tomorrow
[01:13] <kenvandine> he could probably tell you very quickly if it would be a bad idea or not
[01:14] <kklimonda> will do :)
[01:14] <kenvandine> thx :)
[01:14] <kklimonda> the problem really boils down to the fact that CouchDB doesn't like static languages :)
[01:14] <kenvandine> i am glad i am not hacking on that stuff :)
[01:14] <kklimonda> thanks for your insight
[01:14] <kenvandine> indeed
[01:15] <kenvandine> it really is very python friendly though :))
[01:15] <micahg> chrisccoulson_: congrats :)
[01:15] <chrisccoulson_> heh, thanks :)
[01:15] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson_, time flies man!
[01:15] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson_: how the time flies :)
[01:15] <kenvandine> i can't believe my oldest is almost 8
[01:15] <chrisccoulson_> it does, this year has gone pretty quick!
[01:15] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson_: I could swear it was yesterday ;}
[01:15] <chrisccoulson_> yeah, it feels like it ;)
[03:29] <bcurtiswx> not sure who to ping for SRU but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/675555
[03:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 675555 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy SRU maverick 2.32.1 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
[03:53] <nigelb> bcurtiswx: I think pitti would be best bet.  He'll wake up in a few :)
[03:54] <bcurtiswx> yeah, i'll talk with seb128 and didrocks.. they have been helping me out lately
[03:54] <nigelb> bcurtiswx: I'm not sure if we put new upstream release into -proposed though
[03:55] <nigelb> BUt then, not very familar with desktop team procedures now :)
[03:55] <bcurtiswx> yeah, it would go into proposed first to be tested and verified that it works all around (after my personal testing of course)
[03:56] <nigelb> bcurtiswx: no, I mean, we generally don't update new release into older release (at least most of the time)
[03:56] <nigelb> err, new upstream version into older release
[03:56] <bcurtiswx> nigelb, yeah.. maybe my wording was wrong.. upstreams at 2.91.2  but this is 2.32.1 a new upstream release to a stable release
[03:57] <nigelb> Ahhhhh
[03:57] <nigelb> I think there needs to be more documentation
[03:57] <nigelb> !sru
[03:57] <ubot2> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[03:57] <bcurtiswx> yeah i know about that.. lol
[03:58] <nigelb> One thing I hate about Sru - documentation
[03:58] <nigelb> takes more time than it takes to get the thing working ;)
[04:00] <bcurtiswx> idk what to expect, as this is my 2nd SRU request
[04:01] <nigelb> heh, all will be good :)
[07:20] <kklimonda> good morning
[07:45] <didrocks> good morning!
[07:48] <jasoncwarner> late afternoon ;)
[07:49] <didrocks> jasoncwarner: long day for you, isn't it? :)
[07:54] <jasoncwarner> didrocks: I took a break in the middle to go and buy a car in the big city. It didn't quite pan out ;)
[07:55] <jasoncwarner> and now I am supposed to talk to pitti, but he keeps telling me it is one of those german vacation days... ;)
[07:55] <didrocks> jasoncwarner: hehe, I like this kind of break « taking a break to buy a car ». Sounds so natural :)
[07:56] <didrocks> oh really?
[07:56] <didrocks> now so the question is: is it the kind of german vacation that seb is taking too or not :)
[07:57] <jasoncwarner> didrocks: :)
[07:58] <pitti> Good morning (holiday today)
[07:59] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[07:59] <devildante> Bonjour tout le monde :)
[08:00] <didrocks> hey devildante
[08:00] <devildante> hey didrocks :)
[08:02] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:26] <mvo> its a german vacation day?
[08:26]  * mvo is all ears
[08:26] <devildante> mvo: I think so
[08:27] <mvo> hey devildante! nice to see you :)
[08:27] <devildante> mvo: right when I also have vacations
[08:27] <devildante> mvo: and nice to see you too :)
[08:27] <mvo> devildante: unusual at this time of day - aha, vaaction
[08:27] <devildante> heh :)
[08:27] <huats> morning
[08:28] <mvo> devildante: there is a branch from you pending, right :) I want to get that in !
[08:28] <devildante> mvo: zeitgeist-unused-applications?
[08:29] <mvo> devildante: yeah! you fixed the one comment I had about it ages ago
[08:29] <mvo> devildante: so I feel a bit bad for letting it slip :/
[08:29] <devildante> ah
[08:29] <devildante> mvo: np, cause mpt just disapproved it :p
[08:30] <mvo> devildante: but now that UDS and vacation is over I will be quicker again (fingers crossed)
[08:30] <mvo> devildante: oh?
[08:31] <devildante> mvo: see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/software-center/zeitgeist-unused-applications/+merge/39236
[08:34] <devildante> morale of the story: always don't do something without mpt's consent, or you might get bad surprises :p
[08:40] <mvo> devildante: ok
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone!
[08:56] <kklimonda> hey chrisccoulson
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> hi kklimonda, how are you>
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> ?
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[08:57] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, kklimonda!
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you?
[08:57] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I think I've slept of Json tonight but otherwise I'm good :)
[08:57] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm good, thanks! And you?
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - i'm not too bad thanks. my daughters birthday today!
[08:58] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: what have you bought your daughter for birthday? A mascot penguin? ;)
[08:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh nice :)
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> lol
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> we got her a smart trike thingy to push her around on outside
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> although, the weather outside is hideous ;)
[09:00] <kklimonda> lovely European climate ;)
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, weird build failure: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59221143/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.firefox-4.0_4.0~b8~hg20101117r57626%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~hardy_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> error: #error "Architecture not supported" - ok ;)
[09:07] <devildante> chrisccoulson: what does ~umd1 there mean?
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> ubuntu-mozilla-daily
[09:08] <devildante> ah, thanks :)
[09:09] <devildante> chrisccoulson: speaking of which, when is beta7 coming to the mozilla ppa? I want my super-fast js engine :p
[09:09] <devildante> (mozilla-next)
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> devildante, once we've uploaded it to natty
[09:09] <devildante> ah
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> we've hit a snag with the new packaging layout though, which has blocked that
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> abrowser uses can't upgrade properly
[09:09] <devildante> chrisccoulson: so no more ppa for me, all hail natty :)
[09:09] <kklimonda> I'm using dailies from mozilla ppa and I don't see much improvement :/
[09:10] <devildante> chrisccoulson: thanks for the insight :)
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> abrowser really needs to go away and die
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> :)
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> it starts faster ;)
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> (much faster than ff3.6, anyway)
[09:11] <kklimonda> I have it running for as long as I'm logged in so that doesn't matter to me ;)
[09:11] <devildante> chrisccoulson: true
[09:11] <kklimonda> and ff4 + flash x64 beta is not the best combination in the world - flash crashes al the time :/
[09:11] <kklimonda> good I only use it to watch some youtube ;)
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> fresh profile is about 1 second here, and a session restore is about 3seconds until fully rendered and usable tabs
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> which beats the old version by many seconds!
[09:12] <devildante> about flash
[09:12] <devildante> I have some weird "bug" with fullscreen
[09:13] <kklimonda> flash is really one big bug
[09:13] <devildante> that "bug" is really a feature in my case, though
[09:13] <devildante> remember when you wanted to change the sound volume, notify-osd triggers and flash reverts from fullscreen?
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> yeah :)
[09:14] <devildante> it seems it doesn't occur to me anymore
[09:14] <devildante> weeeeeeird
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, perhaps that was fixed in flash
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> but that was 100% flash bug anyway, so it must have been ;)
[09:14] <devildante> chrisccoulson: but I get a white screen for 0.01s
[09:15] <devildante> = blink
[09:15] <devildante> but it's fixed as I see
[09:15] <devildante> weeeird
[09:15] <devildante> I don't think flash was updated in natty, did it?
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> it was dropping fullscreen on the FocusOut/NotifyGrab event it got when pressing the volume buttons
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> which it shouldn't have been doing
[09:16] <kklimonda> still happening here
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> i'd be surprised if it's fixed. adobe don't fix bugs, they only create them
[09:17] <kklimonda> :)
[09:19] <devildante> phew - it works even in metacity ; I was worried that a compiz bug would have masked that flash bug :p
[09:19]  * devildante has a weird compiz config
[09:24] <rodrigo_> morning
[09:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, hey
[09:26] <seb128> how are you?
[09:26] <rodrigo_> fine, thanks, and you?
[09:27] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 / rodrigo_
[09:29] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:29] <seb128> did you manage to get your laptop to build a firefox yesterday? ;-)
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - not too bad thanks, just clearing up the wrapping paper mess after my daughter opened her birthday presents
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> (well, after we opened them for her) ;)
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i managed to get 2 firefox builds yesterday in the end ;)
[09:30] <rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson
[09:30] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, 2 firefox builds as present for your daughter? :)
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> they felt like a present to me yesterday with the number of failed builds i had because of my laptop crashing ;)
[09:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, it's your daughter birthday? happy birthday to her then ;-)
[09:31] <rodrigo_> yeah, happy birthday to her, how old is she?
[09:31] <seb128> I hope you got some cake ;-)
[09:31] <kklimonda> o/ rodrigo_
[09:31] <rodrigo_> hi kklimonda
[09:33] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, I am importing your branch right now into a branch in git.gnome.org, btw
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, she's 1 today :)
[09:34] <devildante> chrisccoulson: happy 1st birthday to her, then :)
[09:34] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, oh, nice :)
[09:34] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_, salut seb128
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[09:34] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:35] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks
[09:37] <devildante> how many french-speaking people are here, I wonder...
[09:44] <mvo> chrisccoulson: congrats from me as well on this :)
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> is your daughter feeling better today?
[09:46] <mvo> chrisccoulson: yes, she is sleeping, that is a good sign. and much less fever
[09:46] <seb128> mvo, oh, you had one of your girls not feeling well?
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> that's good then :)
[09:47] <mvo> seb128: yes, marie had fever (40°C) for two days, that was not fun
[09:47] <seb128> oh ok
[09:47] <mvo> seb128: but she is getting better now - its the age, kidnergarten and all that
[09:47] <seb128> glad she's starting feeling better
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> we've been quite fortunate with ruby, she has been ill much less than average. but i guess that will change when she starts being around other people more
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> she did get my ubuflu from UDS though ;)
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: btw, I got a lot further with my pygi/gtk3.0 jockey port -- I see the main window, can install drivers, and get message boxes :)
[10:12] <pitti> (and I reported three upstream bugs for pygobject)
[10:12] <seb128> ok, great
[10:12] <seb128> let me know if they are responsive to bugs ;-)
[10:12] <seb128> so porting is non trivial it seems?
[10:13] <pitti> so far I have workarounds for all of them
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: no, but it's not truly hard either; just a bit ugly
[10:13] <seb128> how so?
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: and currently I'm stuck with the unavailability of indicator and pynotify bindings for gtk3.0
[10:13] <devildante> what are the key differences between pygtk and pygobject? (which, as I understood, is the drop-in replacement for pygtk in python 3)
[10:13] <pitti> but kenvandine has a WI for indicator 3.0, I think
[10:13] <pitti> devildante: pygtk is going away
[10:14] <pitti> devildante: in the new world, pygobject uses the gobject-introspection data from libraries and makes them accessible directly
[10:14] <devildante> ah
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: ugly> because of things like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=620579
[10:14] <ubot2> Gnome bug 620579 in introspection "Accept unicode objects in addition to strings" [Major,New]
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> oh, i just rewrote the firefox profile migrator in pygtk ;)
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> i guess i need to fix that
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: pygobject 2.27 helps a lot already, though (I just uploaded it)
[10:15] <pitti> seb128: now I'm tracking down why the expand/fill behavior is now exactly opposite (my description box stays small, and all the labels and button boxes grow huge)
[10:15] <seb128> pitti, I was going to suggest that yesterday when I read the blog post about the new version
[10:15] <pitti> but once this gets done for one project, porting the next one should be a lot easier
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: hellogoodbyehellogoodbyehello
[10:17] <seb128> ups
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: argh, seems my upload got stuck with the LP upgrade
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: but anyway, it's working a lot better, message boxes and tree iters work nicely again
[10:17] <pitti> it crashes right at the start, but I added a workaround and filed an upstream bug
[10:19] <seb128> it's still a bit young
[10:19] <seb128> but it's nice that somebody does some real porting to run into those issues, get them reported and fixed
[10:19] <pitti> right; give it another half a year, and it'll rock
[10:20] <seb128> let's see how responsive the upstream guys are
[10:20] <pitti> jockey doesn't have that much GTK code, so it's rather easy to port
[10:20] <pitti> seb128: I wondered why libnotify4 doesn't have anything to build a GIR -- do you know how hard it is to add?
[10:20] <seb128> right, that's why I said at UDS that software-center will perhaps not be ported this cycle
[10:20] <pitti> *nod*
[10:21] <seb128> dunno for the gir but the dx guys probably know
[10:21] <seb128> njpatel or ted
[10:21] <seb128> it seems to not really be hard if you api is commented correctly in the code so the parser works correctly on it
[10:21] <seb128> you -> your
[10:22] <seb128> seems the retracers don't like having launchpad down ;-)
[10:23] <seb128> hum
[10:23] <seb128> pitti, do you plan to update gdu to 2.32?
[10:24] <seb128> it seems we still have 2.30
[10:24] <pitti> can do; I believe I already looked at it before, and there was a problem with it, but I don't remember any more
[10:26] <seb128> the depends on the new libnotify?
[10:27] <seb128> read the git log it's mostly translation updates and api updates for the new gtk
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: ah, perhaps it was that
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: I'll do it this week, just not today
[10:32] <pitti> today = holiday = fun stuff :)
[10:32] <pitti> we wanted to go hiking, but it's dreadful outside
[10:32] <seb128> oh right, you are on holiday ;-)
[10:32] <seb128> you shouldn't even be on IRC! ;-)
[10:34] <pitti> meh, I have a simple test program which just opens a GtkBuilder
[10:34] <pitti> $ gcc -o b `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0` b.c
[10:34] <pitti> /tmp/cc948PC7.o: In function `main':
[10:34] <pitti> b.c:(.text+0x19): undefined reference to `gtk_builder_new'
[10:34] <pitti> b.c:(.text+0x32): undefined reference to `gtk_builder_add_from_file'
[10:35] <pitti> b.c:(.text+0x5a): undefined reference to `g_log'
[10:35] <devildante> oh god
[10:35] <pitti> what am I doing wrong here? "pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-3.0" has all the -lgtk-x11-3.0 bits
[10:35] <didrocks> pitti: try to build with gcc-4.4
[10:35] <devildante> you did gtk_-2.0
[10:35] <devildante> you should put gtk+-3.0
[10:36] <devildante> 3 rather than 2 ;)
[10:36] <pitti> ah, I tried that first
[10:36] <didrocks> pitti: seems similar to the bug I had for the wallpaper cache yesterday in g-s-d
[10:36] <pitti> it doesn't work with either
[10:36] <didrocks> can't help you then, it did it for me :)
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: fun, that works
[10:36] <didrocks> ah
[10:36] <pitti> strange
[10:36] <didrocks> you were answering to devildante :)
[10:36]  * devildante is confused
[10:36] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I've pinged doko about it yesterday, he has no clue about it
[10:37] <didrocks> pitti: I tried all the --as-needed/--no-as-needed and such, didn't see any difference
[10:37] <pitti> didrocks: I answered to devildante that I tried both gtk 2 and 3
[10:37] <didrocks> for me, it was even worse, gdk_init not recognized by the linker despite the -l… :}
[10:37] <devildante> ah
[10:39] <pitti> ok, so the "inverted fill/expand behaviour" bug is not pygobject specific, but GTK 2->3 specific
[10:39]  * pitti RTFM
[10:41] <njpatel> pitti, not too hard, you can probably pull the autofoo from one of the dx's library projects
[11:00] <devildante> I see two pedro_ in the list :p
[11:01] <pedro_> hello devildante :-)
[11:01] <devildante> hi pedro_ :)
[11:02] <devildante> pedro_: this is serious, I see two of you :p
[11:12] <rodrigo_> one pedro_ is enough
[11:12] <pedro_> rodrigo_, my mom says that too :-P
[11:12] <rodrigo_> :)
[11:14] <devildante> I guess empathy is tricking me
[11:16] <seb128> hey pedro_, up earlier every day?
[11:16] <rodrigo_> devildante, yes, I only see one pedro_
[11:16] <pedro_> hello seb128! same time as always but looks like DST is in place now ;-)
[11:17] <rodrigo_> pedro_, so what time is it now in Chile?
[11:17] <pedro_> 8 am here
[11:17] <rodrigo_> ah, only 4 hours diff, yeah
[11:17] <devildante> rodrigo_: thanks for letting me know empathy is buggy :)
[11:17] <rodrigo_> devildante, :)
[11:17] <devildante> (that sounded funny btw :p)
[11:19] <ivanka> mvo: hi
[11:19] <seb128> ivanka, hey, he's at lunch I think
[11:20] <ivanka> hey seb128: ah, no worries, was nothing urgent
[11:20] <seb128> ivanka, if you let some context I'm sure he will reply when he's back
[11:20] <seb128> or maybe somebody else can help you
[11:21] <ivanka> seb128: was just going to thank mvo for helping out rhlee with screenshots.ubuntu.com
[11:22] <seb128> oh ok ;-)
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> right, i'll be back in a bit, taking my daughter out for lunch :)
[11:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, have fun
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[11:42] <duanedesign> where is the evolution-data-server binary in Maverick?
[11:47] <rodrigo_> hmm, we need a GTK3 version of liblaunchpad-integration
[11:47] <rodrigo_> duanedesign, /usr/lib/evolution/e-*-factory
[11:47] <rodrigo_> duanedesign, just answered to the bug
[11:47] <seb128> rodrigo_, it's in natty
[11:47] <seb128> lpi with gtk3
[11:47] <seb128> the amd64 build failed though
[11:47] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh, is it?
[11:47] <seb128> I will fix that when i'm back from lunch
[11:47] <rodrigo_> I need an update then
[11:48] <seb128> or manually build it locally meanwhile
[11:49] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you happen to know about the different dialog contents expand/fill behaviour in GTK 2.0 and 3.0?
[11:50] <pitti> rodrigo_: with 3.0 resizing dialogs often just causes the dialog to get extra outer padding, instead of resizing the contents
[11:50] <rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, no idea
[11:50] <rodrigo_> pitti, afaik, there shouldn't be any change, but not sure
[11:51] <pitti> python -c 'from gi.repository import Gtk; Gtk.require_version("3.0"); w = Gtk.Builder(); w.add_from_file("/usr/share/gnome-control-center/ui/gnome-mouse-properties.ui"); w.get_object("mouse_properties_dialog").run()'
[11:51] <pitti> this reproduces it nicely; if you use "2.0" in require_version, it works correctly
[11:52] <pitti> rodrigo_: it's not a python issue; I wrote a C test program which does the same
[11:52] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you know who I could ask about this?
[11:52] <rodrigo_> pitti, #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org
[11:53] <rodrigo_> pitti, garnacho might know about it, but better ask in the channel, I guess
[11:53] <devildante> pitti: but be sure to not be eaten by detractors who say Ubuntu abandoned GNOME :p
[12:01] <pitti> rodrigo_: I asked there, thanks
[12:01] <rodrigo_> pitti, and?
[12:01] <pitti> waiting :)
[12:02] <rodrigo_> ah, ok :)
[12:02] <rodrigo_> let me know what answer you get, please
[12:02] <pitti> yep
[12:05] <seb128> pitti, not sure if you know about http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.91/gtk-migrating-2-to-3.html
[12:05] <devildante> seb128: nice link, thank you :)
[12:05] <seb128> pitti, there is a section which seems similar to what you ask
[12:07] <pitti> rodrigo_, seb128: some part of it seems to be known, gnome bug 634592
[12:07] <ubot2> Gnome bug 634592 in gtk "GtkNotebook doesn't expand (in a typical GtkDialog)" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634592
[12:08] <rodrigo_> pitti, ah, ok, so it's a bug, not a "feature" :)
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: right, but if that changes stuff at all, it should expand more, not less
[12:09] <seb128> right, so you probably  hit a bug
[12:17] <mvo> ivanka: thanks! also I don't had to help much, rhless did a great job
[12:21] <pitti> yay, it's working now \o/
[12:21] <pitti> rodrigo_: so, explicitly setting the fill property to True in the topmost GtkVBox helps
[12:21] <pitti> (workaround for this bug)
[12:22] <rodrigo_> ok
[12:23] <ivanka> mvo: that is good news :-)
[12:23] <pitti> now it's just unthemed, and I get a lot of "Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "murrine"," warnings
[12:23] <pitti> but that's secondary
[12:23] <pitti> I guess our murrine theme package doesn't have a version for gtk 3 yet
[12:23] <seb128> pitti, install the gtk3 murrine binary
[12:23] <seb128> it has
[12:23] <pitti> oh
[12:24] <seb128> you just have nothing pulling it in
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: ah, seems we pull that in via human-theme or gnome-themes-ubuntu; so I guess at some point we'll just update that
[12:25] <seb128> right
[12:25] <pitti> *sniff* that's working beautifully
[12:25] <seb128> well the default theme should probably recommends it
[12:25] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[12:26] <pitti> the old pygtk2 and new pygi 3.0 jockey now look identical
[12:26] <seb128> great, upload! ;-)
[12:26] <pitti> no indicator, no notifications
[12:26] <seb128> oh right
[12:26] <pitti> and it still uses dbus-glib
[12:26] <pitti> I didn't find any GDBus stuff in the glib gir
[12:27] <seb128> well that one is not really an issue
[12:27] <pitti> not sure whether that's intended or a bug
[12:27] <seb128> dunno
[12:28] <pitti> but right, dbus-python isn't a blocker
[12:44] <pitti> sorry for being such a nuisance today, but I've got another question
[12:44] <pitti> Failed to load typelib file '/usr/lib/girepository-1.0/AppIndicator-0.1.typelib' for namespace 'AppIndicator': Typelib version mismatch; expected 4, found 3
[12:44] <pitti> would it be enough to rebuild gir1.0-appindicator-0.1?
[12:46]  * pitti tries
[12:48] <seb128> pitti, yes
[12:49] <seb128> upstream handled the abi breakage in an non optimal way
[12:49] <seb128> they have an abi number but didn't bump it since it's still an unstable serie
[12:49] <pitti> ok, no problem
[12:50]  * pitti installs 300 MB of build depends and tries a no-change build; if that works, I'll upload it
[12:50] <seb128> doing a rebuild should be enough if the other typelibs it needs have been rebuilt
[12:50] <pitti> that, and adding a gir to libnotify4 -> happiness
[12:50] <seb128> pitti, ken is working on having a gtk3 build going on but I guess having a rebuild meanwhile makes sense
[12:51] <pitti> seb128: oh, does that thing actually need gtk2? I thought it was all dbus
[12:51] <pitti> well, python-appindicator apparenlty imports gtk2 (which causes the app to hang badly)
[12:52] <pitti> The GObject name 'AppIndicator' isn't compatibile
[12:52] <pitti> with the configured identifier prefixes:
[12:52] <pitti>   ['AppIndicator']
[12:52] <pitti> The class would have no name.  Most likely you want to specify a
[12:52] <pitti> different --identifier-prefix.
[12:52] <seb128> pitti, yes, that needs gtk2
[12:52] <pitti> ok, I think I'll leave that to Ken, and do something else for now :)
[12:52] <seb128> pitti, it communicates over dbus with the service
[12:52]  * pitti will actually pretend he'd be on holiday then, see you later :)
[12:52] <seb128> pitti, have fun!
[13:07] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, I created bug #675555 would you be able to check it through for m? I read through SRU wiki but not sure if I understood it all quite right.  I'm heading to work shortly and I'll ping you again with my bcurtiswx_ account later.
[13:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 675555 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy SRU maverick 2.32.1 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/675555
[13:12] <rodrigo_> I'm going to update gvfs for the GNOME3 PPA, but I think it can just go to natty (we have 1.6.4 and the new upstream is 1.6.6)
[13:12] <rodrigo_> seb128, ^
[13:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, why do you need to update it?
[13:13] <rodrigo_> well, going over the versions page from robert
[13:13] <rodrigo_> I really don't need it
[13:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, don't we rather need a 1.7 from the unstable serie?
[13:13] <seb128> oh ok
[13:13] <rodrigo_> hmm, there's no 1.7 release yet
[13:13]  * rodrigo_ relooks
[13:13] <seb128> right, but maybe we need one
[13:14] <seb128> 1.6.5 was from the new serie but the new 1.6 is from stable again
[13:14] <rodrigo_> right, the git master one has all stuff migrated to GSettings
[13:14] <rodrigo_> so, yes, better to wait for the 1.7.x release
[13:15] <seb128> does that migration impact on any other component?
[13:15] <rodrigo_> the gvfs migration you mean?
[13:16] <seb128> yes
[13:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, did you run out of task or do you just want to do easy updates for a change?
[13:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, not out of tasks, just looking over the list and deciding what needs to go first
[13:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, but do you want me to do anything else?
[13:17] <seb128> not really, I just have some updates from that list pending so let me know on the channel if you start on one
[13:17] <rodrigo_> ah, which updates?
[13:17] <seb128> the 2.32.1 updates vuntz rolled earlier
[13:17] <seb128> gnome-session, libwnck, etc
[13:18] <rodrigo_> ok, I can take some, if you want
[13:18] <rodrigo_> for natty?
[13:18] <seb128> yes
[13:18] <rodrigo_> ok, let me know which ones you want me to work on, I'll do them after lunch
[13:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, you can do gnome-menus gnome-themes if you want
[13:19] <rodrigo_> ok, will do after lunch, now lunch, so bbl :)
[13:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, enjoy your lunch
[13:19] <rodrigo_> thanks :)
[13:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, sound-juicer as well
[13:48] <bcurtiswx_> didrocks, get my prev. msg ?
[13:48] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: sorry, was working on something else :)
[13:49] <bcurtiswx_> didrocks, not a prob, just got to work, wanted to verify :)
[13:49] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: not sure I'll give it a go before Friday though and empathy is more kenvandine's pet :)
[13:49] <bcurtiswx_> didrocks, ah.  thought you were since i've seen you upload it a lot :) i will bother Ken.. he's used to it by now
[13:49] <kenvandine> hehe
[13:49] <didrocks> hehe :)
[13:50] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, bug #675555 . Am I doing things right with it?
[13:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 675555 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy SRU maverick 2.32.1 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/675555
[13:51] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, you mean in regard to SRU process?
[13:51]  * kenvandine looks
[13:52] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, yeah I got the package to build successfully on pbuilder and testing it worked fine. im just not sure exactly what SRU entails.. the wiki was confusing
[13:53] <bcurtiswx_> i've been told i'm doing it wrong by -motu but I learned it the way I did it from the people here.. so i wanted to make sure I did it wrong.. weird i know :P
[13:53] <kenvandine> wow... i didn't even notice there was a preference for 'disable notifications when busy or away'
[13:53] <kenvandine> :)
[13:54] <kenvandine> i really want gwibber to do something like that, using IM status as a key for your general availability
[13:54] <kenvandine> but i am not sure that is totally sane... opinions from others welcome
[13:54] <bcurtiswx_> what would that do to benefit gwibber? tell the program not to bug you when away/busy but let the messages flow when available?
[13:55] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, yeah, sort of like a DND
[13:55] <kenvandine> like if your showing slides during a talk... set your status to away
[13:55] <kenvandine> or busy, etc
[13:55] <kenvandine> and gwibber stops bugging you :)
[13:56] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, considering that it is a GNOME package, i think that is fine for a SRU
[13:56] <bcurtiswx_> smart annoyances.. i like it :)
[13:56] <kenvandine> generally they prefer individual bug fix SRUs
[13:56] <kenvandine> bug GNOME packages we do the point releases
[13:56] <kenvandine> so this looks good
[13:57] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, great :) thx
[13:57] <kenvandine> let me sponsor it and i'll let you handle getting the SRU approved :)
[14:00] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, OK.  I think I have it all prepared for SRU except for  a testcase in the bug comments
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> is gwibber really really slow in natty for anybody else?
[14:02] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, slow?  like what specifically is slow?
[14:02] <kenvandine> the UI doesn't feel responsive?
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, it takes a long time for it to open from the messaging menu
[14:02] <kenvandine> humm
[14:02] <kenvandine> even if gwibber-service is already running?
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> and i just had to re-authorize with identi.ca, and the whole UI froze for like 10 seconds after i clicked "Allow"
[14:03] <kenvandine> although that hsould be fast...
[14:03] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i know about that
[14:03] <kenvandine> it is waiting for the response from identi.ca
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> oh, it tells my i need to reauthorize again
[14:03] <kenvandine> for it to get the resulting page
[14:03] <kenvandine> for identi.ca?
[14:03] <bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, i agree, the first launch from the me menu does take a bit
[14:04] <kenvandine> oh... did you hit "save" after re-authorizing?
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, oh, i might not have hit save
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> that's confusing ;)
[14:04] <kenvandine> yeah... i really need to fix that :/
[14:04] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, maybe authorize should auto-save?
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that has tripped me up before as well
[14:05] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, yes... it will auto-save all changes... when i find the time
[14:06] <kenvandine> we had to make it a manual process because of race conditions with couchdb
[14:06] <kenvandine> but now i just haven't found the time to fix it
[14:06] <bcurtiswx_> time, if i ever make a machine to go back, i'll force the gregorians to add an extra hour or two to the day
[14:07] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, wow... as 12oz burger?  I am impressed!
[14:07] <kenvandine> s/as/a/
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, yeah, i wish i took a photograph of it!
[14:08] <kenvandine> indeed
[14:08]  * bcurtiswx_ is lost
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> i'll just have to go back and have another one!
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> :)
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx_ ;)
[14:09] <bcurtiswx_> chrisccoulson, would this be one of those find you on twitter/identica and see what you're talking about?
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx_ - it might be ;)
[14:09] <bcurtiswx_> name on there? @chrisccoulson ?
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> thats my name everywhere ;)
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> right, i am determined to have ff-4.0 uploaded this afternoon
[14:11] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, woot
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> i wonder how many times my laptop will crash before that happens though ;)
[14:12] <bcurtiswx_> well, i'm officially stalking/following you now
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[14:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you have fun for lunch? ;-)
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> i don't normally post a lot - just usually to announce new firefox and thunderbird releases ;)
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, we went to an indoor play area for my daughter, and then grabbed some lunch afterwards
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> i ate quite a large lunch though
[14:14] <seb128> nice
[14:14] <seb128> oh, feeling sleepy now then? ;-)
[14:14] <seb128> you need some coffee to fix that :p
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i could do with some coffee!
[14:18]  * kenvandine sips on some hot coffee, yum!
[14:18] <bcurtiswx_> i wish i liked coffee.. because everywhere i go, conferences, workplaces, friends, family.. they always have a pot brewing :'(
[14:19] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[14:19] <seb128> kenvandine, how are the gtk3 updates from ted going?
[14:20] <kenvandine> just starting that now
[14:20] <kenvandine> hopefully finish today
[14:21] <kenvandine> hopefully it won't be too painful now that mterry has blazed the trail :)
[14:22] <kenvandine> seb128, we need to get ubuntu-geoip out of sourceNEW
[14:23] <kenvandine> so we can get the MIR rolling and get indicator-datetime uploaded
[14:23] <mterry> kenvandine, make sure you're looking at that latest merge (not trunk) for launchpad-integration, as trunk has a bug with how I did it for non-i386 archs
[14:23] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:23] <seb128> mterry, I'm about to sponsor that btw
[14:23] <kenvandine> i was just looking to see if that was merged :)
[14:23] <seb128> Riddell, hey, do you plan to do some source NEW today? ;-)
[14:23] <mterry> rodrigo_, should my gtk3 apps be unthemed?  Am I missing a theme package or something?
[14:23] <seb128> mterry, you probably need gtk3 murrine
[14:24] <mterry> Yeah
[14:24] <seb128> it's in natty
[14:24] <kenvandine> ah... i just noticed that last night
[14:24] <seb128> but nothing pull it in
[14:24] <kenvandine> that explains it
[14:24] <mterry> hrm, pulling it in
[14:24] <Riddell> seb128: yo, can do, you want the gtk package in?
[14:24] <seb128> I will update the theme when we start having applications using gtk3
[14:24] <kenvandine> i got a bunch of errors finding murrine
[14:24] <kenvandine> was doing some late night hacking on the new gtk3 vala gwibber client :)
[14:25] <kenvandine> first dive into playing with Gtk.Application :)
[14:25] <seb128> Riddell, kenvandine needs ubuntu-geoip, gtksourceview3 would be nice as well
[14:25] <kenvandine> wish there was documentation :)
[14:25] <seb128> Riddell, and launchpad-integration through binary NEW in a bit (it's there only for i386 so far but that's about to be fixed)
[14:26] <seb128> kenvandine, pitti ported jockey to gi and gtk3
[14:26] <seb128> kenvandine, he's just blocked on the lack of appindicator gir for gtk3 now
[14:26] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:26] <kenvandine> saw that
[14:27] <seb128> mterry, hey
[14:27] <mterry> kenvandine, library.gnome.org doesn't have your back?
[14:27] <seb128> mterry, what do you work,plan to work on next?
[14:27] <kenvandine> mterry, C docs
[14:28] <mterry> seb128, working on gedit a bit (seems to work, need to file MIR for libpeas and gtksourceview3) and some quickly stuff.  I can take something
[14:28] <kenvandine> but had to look at the vapi file to figure out the names of some flags
[14:28] <mterry> kenvandine, yeah, having the vapi files open seems unavoidable with Vala
[14:29] <seb128> mterry, I don't think we have anything which is important to get tackled this week so feel free to do things you want to do or quickly work
[14:29] <seb128> mterry, if you are wanting to do some updates there is still gdl and anjuta to do
[14:29] <seb128> having a first real application using gtk3 in universe could be nice
[14:30] <mterry> yeah, that's probably better than having gedit be the flagship.  less pressure for it to be perfect on first go and I can update it directly...  /me starts looking at gdl
[14:31] <seb128> mterry, great, thanks
[14:32] <bcurtiswx_> seb128, are there things still blocking empathy from being updated to 2.91.2 ?
[14:32] <seb128> bcurtiswx_, webkit, gnome-keyring
[14:32] <seb128> at least
[14:33] <bcurtiswx_> seb128, they just need to be packaged, correct?
[14:33] <seb128> "just", yes
[14:34] <seb128> Riddell, thanks for the NEWing ;-)
[14:34] <seb128> kenvandine, mterry: ^ ubuntu-geoip and gtksourceview3 newed
[14:34] <kenvandine> woot
[14:34] <kenvandine> thx
[14:34] <Riddell> launchpad-integration in too
[14:34] <seb128> great
[14:35] <mterry> Riddell, thanks!
[14:35] <seb128> didrocks, I think vuntz really dislikes you
[14:35] <seb128> didrocks, he rolled gnome-panel 2.32.1 without considering your dso fix
[14:35] <didrocks> seb128: no no, don't tell it!
[14:36] <didrocks> seb128: but it still applies?
[14:36] <vuntz> didn't see the bug, I guess
[14:36] <seb128> he fixed http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-panel/commit/?id=d38428d78ca5a3e51e0cf472875652fd2d787ada
[14:36] <didrocks> vuntz: like a cache patch *hem*
[14:36] <seb128> the other parts still apply
[14:36] <seb128> vuntz, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634446
[14:36] <ubot2> Gnome bug 634446 in Panel "invalid DSO linking with gnome-panel" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[14:36] <didrocks> vuntz is mean :)
[14:37] <seb128> didrocks, the patch is not enough as well
[14:37] <seb128> libtray has an undefined gdk symbols
[14:37] <bcurtiswx_> 2.92.92.is.2.31.91-0ubuntu4 <-- what's that mean?
[14:37] <didrocks> seb128: the previous buid was working, isn't it?
[14:37] <seb128> bcurtiswx_, it means that 2.92 was a typo for 2.29
[14:38] <vuntz> didrocks: need to look at it later, but I'm not quite sure why randr is needed for the test stuff
[14:38] <seb128> bcurtiswx_, so the version was tweaked to go back to the real one with an epoch over debian
[14:38] <seb128> didrocks, yes, not sure why
[14:38] <bcurtiswx_> interesting, lol
[14:39] <didrocks> vuntz: if you can consider my wallpaper cache as well, I had to rebased it twice since last month :)
[14:39] <didrocks> vuntz: normally, all your concerns were taken into account
[14:40] <seb128> didrocks, in fact that might be the same issue that g-s-d
[14:40] <didrocks> seb128: ok, separate issue then, all is good from our side, but the linker seems not happy about something…
[14:42] <mterry> seb128, for something like gdl that is introducing a new gdl-3.0.pc and the like, I believe best practices is to create a new source package, since otherwise we'd have to update all rdepends immediately?   With few rdepends, do we bother with a new source?
[14:42] <seb128> mterry, no, don't bother, there is 2 rdepends to this one
[14:42] <seb128> one being anjuta
[14:42] <seb128> the other one is gtranslator which seems ported to gtk3 in git
[14:42] <seb128> there was a blog post about it yesterday
[14:43] <mterry> seb128, well, there is python-gdl which python-gnome2-extras-dev uses
[14:43] <seb128> well, that one has no rdepends
[14:43] <mterry> seb128, but no rdepends of that?
[14:43] <seb128> so we can just stop building it
[14:43] <seb128> what do you think?
[14:44] <mterry> seb128, sure.  How do we stop building something?  Take it out of the control file?
[14:45]  * mterry wonders if there is secret archive admin magic that would do the same thing
[14:45] <seb128> mterry, well, the gdl you are using will change so ideally tweak the build to not try to build the gdl binding if it's not clever enough to do that
[14:46] <seb128> mterry, typically it's dropping the build-depends, dropping the binary in the control, cleaning the .install
[14:47] <mterry> For my purposes, seems easier to just drop the python-gdl Depends, but OK
[14:47] <mterry> oh right, it builds python-gdl too
[14:47] <seb128> mterry, what do you mean?
[14:47] <seb128> mterry, it's likely that the source will fail to build once you land the new gdl
[14:47] <mterry> I had assumed gdl provided that itself.  OK, I'm up to speed
[14:48] <seb128> great ;-)
[14:48] <seb128> it's the old manual bindings we are talking about there
[14:48]  * mterry looks *so* forward to our new gobject-introspection overlords
[14:48] <seb128> yeah
[14:50] <devildante> it seems now is not the time to create new apps, with all that gtk 2 to 3 transition stuff :)
[14:53] <seb128> didrocks, seems your gnome-panel patch is not required
[14:54] <didrocks> seb128: the DSO link?
[14:55] <didrocks> seems it was (your previous upload): http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58905743/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.gnome-panel_1:2.32.0.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[14:55] <didrocks> and I think I got the build error as well to add it :)
[14:56] <didrocks> then, gcc 4.4 -> 4.5, not sure what happens, new errors, maybe this one is now vanished
[14:56] <seb128> didrocks, that seems  http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-panel/commit/?id=d38428d78ca5a3e51e0cf472875652fd2d787ada
[14:56] <seb128> didrocks, not sure why you added the xrandr ones
[14:56] <seb128> well building with gcc-4.4 without your patch and this commit works
[14:57] <seb128> gcc-4.5 has issues but that's similar to the simple g-s-d case from yesterday
[14:57] <cyphermox> hey didrocks! I think I got the evo migration code fixed now :)
[14:57] <didrocks> seb128: I remember to get an issue with xrandr, I didn't add it just for fun :)
[14:57] <didrocks> cyphermox: awesome \o/
[14:57] <didrocks> but if it builds without, nice :)
[14:57] <cyphermox> I have the patch ready, just need to clean it up and I'll show it to the evo devs
[14:57] <seb128> didrocks, ok, let's try without it to see how it goes
[14:57] <cyphermox> it always built without
[14:57] <didrocks> cyphermox: great, thanks for working on this :)
[14:58] <cyphermox> oh wait.. :)
[14:58] <didrocks> seb128: sure :-)
[14:58] <vuntz> didrocks: ahah! You wanted me to use a patch that is wrong!
[14:59] <didrocks> vuntz: that's a punishment for not commiting the wallpaper patch and force me to rebase at each release!
[14:59] <didrocks> vuntz: I see, it's all your fault! :)
[15:00] <bcurtiswx_> why would quilt not see patched with them existing in debian/patches?
[15:00] <bcurtiswx_> patches*
[15:02] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: is it in debian/series?
[15:02] <didrocks> debian/patches/series
[15:02] <bcurtiswx_> didrocks, no
[15:02] <didrocks> so it should be :)
[15:03] <bcurtiswx_> move all patches from debian/patches to debian/patches/series ?
[15:03] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: no, I mean debian/patches/series as a file
[15:03] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: not familiar with quilt?
[15:04] <bcurtiswx_> didrocks, not past basic pop push commands :(
[15:04] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Quilt
[15:05] <didrocks> bcurtiswx_: basically, debian/patches/series is a file listing one after the other the available patches (the order is important)
[15:05] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-themes/2_32_1_release <- do I propose it for merging, or merge to lp:~u-d/gnome-themes/ubuntu and upload?
[15:07] <cyphermox> quilt is so awesome :)
[15:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, can you do merge requests for now?
[15:08] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, no problem
[15:08]  * rodrigo_ proposes
[15:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, I think this one is trivial so I will approve and you can merge and upload
[15:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, we just do that for new contributors to the desktop set
[15:09] <bcurtiswx_> didrocks, seems weird, im taing the debian directory from the desktop team.. thought it would already have something like this in there
[15:09] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I know, that's why I ask, since this was a trivial one
[15:09] <bcurtiswx_> taking* / using
[15:09] <seb128> bcurtiswx_, what distro version?
[15:09] <bcurtiswx_> from maverick
[15:09] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-themes/2_32_1_release/+merge/41059
[15:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, approved ;-)
[15:11] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, merging and uploading then :)
[15:11] <seb128> thanks
[15:12] <bcurtiswx_> im looking at gnome-keyring from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-keyring/ubuntu
[15:14] <bcurtiswx_> debian/patches has no series file in it
[15:16] <rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, there's already a 2.91.x version in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-keyring/ubuntugtk3, just in case you are working on that
[15:17] <bcurtiswx_> rodrigo_, wow, didn't know about ubuntugtk3 instead of ubuntu at the end for the new packages. :) thx
[15:18] <rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, yes, we are pushing stuff to ...ubuntugtk3, so just look for that
[15:19] <rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, also, if you are working on some package let robert_ancell or myself know
[15:19] <rodrigo_> so that we don't work on the same one
[15:19] <seb128> or me
[15:19] <rodrigo_> or seb128 yes
[15:19] <rodrigo_> bcurtiswx_, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds has the packages
[15:20] <cyphermox> on that subject, what's the tag again for the bugs seb128 tagged for gtk3 migrations?
[15:20] <seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gtk3
[15:20] <cyphermox> ah!
[15:20] <cyphermox> I was looking for just "gtk3"
[15:21] <seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3 has work items as well
[15:23] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, btw empathy is in the unapproved queue for maverick-proposed and I uploaded it to natty
[15:23] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, i'll yet you take it from here... subscribe ubuntu-sru, etc
[15:23] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, let us know if you have questions
[15:24] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, Thx.. i've already subscribed ubuntu-sru added changelog to comments, and a testcase as well.. i think thats all i have to do
[15:24] <kenvandine> yup
[15:24] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, thx!
[15:24] <bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, np :)
[15:26] <bcurtiswx_> well i was going to see abotu packaging -keyring and webkit, but it's aready been done.. for both.. with the exception  being webkit FTBFS
[15:30] <bcurtiswx_> AndrewKeenan__, where in Rochester?
[15:34] <bcurtiswx_> where would I DL webkit3.0-1.3.6.tar.gz ?
[15:35] <seb128> bcurtiswx_, I guess on the webkit website
[15:35] <seb128> it's probably just named webkit-1.3.6.tar.gz upstream
[15:36] <bcurtiswx_> seb128, http://www.paldo.org/index-section-packages-page-main-releaseid-136483.html ?
[15:37] <seb128> bcurtiswx_, webkit download on google
[15:37] <seb128> http://webkit.org/
[15:37] <bcurtiswx_> haha, yes i see now.. thx ;)
[15:38] <fta> bratsche, hi, i read you have some (gtk3?) patches for chromium. anything i can do to help you?
[15:40] <bratsche> fta: No, it's not a gtk3 patch.  It's a patch to make Chromium work with a particular gtk3 feature that I backported to gtk2 in a PPA (and which I guess we may be distro-patching in gtk2 for Natty?)
[15:40] <fta> bratsche, natty only?
[15:41] <bratsche> Yes.
[15:41] <bratsche> Well, I guess Natty+
[15:42] <fta> bratsche, i can probably host it in my builds. but i first need to experiment with the new per-dist quilt patch stack
[15:43] <bratsche> Awesome
[15:43] <fta> bratsche, any pointer?
[15:44] <bratsche> fta: I have it in here: https://launchpad.net/~bratsche/+archive/gtk
[15:44] <bratsche> fta: But the gtk2 patch isn't in Natty yet.
[15:44] <fta> btw, do you add a bar at the bottom to display the grip or something?
[15:45] <bratsche> No.
[15:45] <bratsche> If an app wants one of those, they should install a statusbar.
[15:45] <fta> oh, if it's not in gtk natty, will it break chromium if it has your patch
[15:45] <bratsche> fta: Right, it's only in my PPA so far.
[15:46] <fta> hm. do you plan to land it in natty?
[15:46] <fta> +soon
[15:47] <bratsche> Not really.  There's a bug in the backport patch that I don't have time to fix yet.
[15:51] <fta> bratsche, hm, i'm not sure what i should do then. i don't want to host a patched gtk2 in my 4 chromium PPAs and it's not in natty either, so don't see how it's of any use to carry the patch in chromium. iirc, it would only work for those who have both PPAs (very unlikely)
[15:52] <bratsche> fta: So I guess if/when I can get this landed I should talk to you then.
[15:52] <seb128> fta, you should delay use that until we land the patch in natty
[15:52] <rodrigo_> test -z "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages" || /bin/mkdir -p "/opt/extra/src/canonical/packages/gnome-menus/build-area/gnome-menus-2.30.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages"
[15:52] <rodrigo_>  /bin/bash ../libtool   --mode=install /usr/bin/install -c   gmenu.la '/opt/extra/src/canonical/packages/gnome-menus/build-area/gnome-menus-2.30.5/debian/tmp/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages'
[15:52] <rodrigo_> libtool: install: error: cannot install `gmenu.la' to a directory not ending in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages
[15:52] <rodrigo_> I guess it got confused by the 2 python versions I have?
[15:53] <seb128> it should not, we build most things for multiple python version
[15:53] <rodrigo_> hmm
[15:53] <seb128> does the current natty version builds for you?
[15:53] <rodrigo_> let me see
[15:53] <seb128> could be a bug in the rules
[15:54] <fta> bratsche, seb128: ok. just ping me when that lands in natty, i'll experiment in my daily PPA 1st, and if it's fine, land it in the next natty update
[15:56] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, same thing for the current natty version
[15:56]  * rodrigo_ looks at rules
[15:57] <bcurtiswx_> is there a way to tell bzr bd to use 3/4 of my CPU's ?
[16:01] <seb128> vuntz, do you have -as-needed by default in the opensuse gcc?
[16:03] <vuntz> yes
[16:04] <seb128> vuntz, and gnome-panel doesn't fail to build?
[16:04] <vuntz> it built fine, yes
[16:04] <seb128> hum, k
[16:05] <seb128> vuntz, can you try something for me?
[16:05] <seb128> vuntz, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/676519
[16:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 676519 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "link failing despite the right linking arguments are presents on command line (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[16:05] <seb128> vuntz, can you try if the command and the .c on this bug builds fine for you?
[16:06] <seb128> gcc -o gnome-update-wallpaper-cache `pkg-config --cflags --libs glib-2.0 gdk-2.0 gconf-2.0 gnome-desktop-2.0` gnome-update-wallpaper-cache.c
[16:06] <seb128> basically
[16:07] <seb128> vuntz, it fails to build but works with the .c before the pkg-config call
[16:07] <seb128> I think gnome-panel fails due to a similar issue
[16:07] <vuntz> I see the issue for the .c
[16:07] <vuntz> but I had no issue with gnome-panel
[16:08] <didrocks> vuntz: don't tell it's my code!!! :p
[16:08] <vuntz> didrocks: well...
[16:08] <didrocks> :)
[16:08] <vuntz> didrocks: I won't say it :-)
[16:08] <vuntz> can I think it? ;-)
[16:08] <seb128> let me check if that's because I build with the applet no in process
[16:08] <seb128> not
[16:08] <didrocks> vuntz: no ice cream in Lyon!
[16:08] <didrocks> that's weird…
[16:09] <fta> didrocks, doko said "objects before libs on the command line"
[16:10] <didrocks> fta: we try to understand why the same --as-needed on other distro doesn't have that issue
[16:10] <didrocks> (for gnome-panel)
[16:10] <mterry> seb128, do you know of any reason I shouldn't update devhelp as part of the anjuta situation?  anjuta is its library's only rdepends, but I'm wondering if we know of any conflict around webkit or whatever
[16:10] <rodrigo_> hey vuntz
[16:10] <fta> did you to swap the arguments?
[16:10] <fta> +try
[16:10] <didrocks> fta: that's not the issue there, read the backlog ^
[16:10] <vuntz> rodrigo_: hola
[16:11] <seb128> didrocks, /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to symbol 'XGetWindowAttributes' when building testtray.c
[16:11] <seb128> your patch might be required ;-)
[16:11] <didrocks> seb128: ahah!
[16:11] <didrocks> vuntz: see ^^
[16:11] <seb128> though that should be X_LIBS not XRANDR, no?
[16:12] <vuntz> seb128: X_LIBS is in testtray_LDADD
[16:12] <didrocks> indeed, that sounds more X_LIBS than XRANDR
[16:12] <seb128> vuntz, I think it's the order issue
[16:12] <vuntz> well, it works here
[16:12] <seb128> vuntz, seems tray.la should be before the other libs
[16:12] <vuntz> and that's the usual LDADD stuff
[16:13] <seb128> libtray.la
[16:13] <vuntz> does notification-area-applet build fine?
[16:13] <seb128> libnotification-area-applet.so does
[16:14] <seb128> let me try a ./configure && make with the tarball rather than a package build
[16:14] <vuntz> right, but it's a .so, so it might be different
[16:17] <seb128>   CCLD   notification-area-applet
[16:17] <seb128> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to symbol 'gdk_window_get_parent'
[16:19] <vuntz> not sure why I don't see the issue
[16:19] <seb128> vuntz, yeah, moving libtray.la before X_LIBS in NOTIFICATION_AREA_LDADD works
[16:19] <vuntz> anyway, if moving the line works, please commit
[16:19] <seb128> ok, thanks
[16:20] <didrocks> I'm afraid we will have that issue with plenty of upstream
[16:21] <seb128> let's see
[16:21] <seb128> I didn't have it with any other tarball yet today and I did a bunch of GNOME updates
[16:23] <seb128> rodrigo_, should I do the gnome-desktop update to natty?
[16:23] <rodrigo_> seb128, 2.91.2 you mean?
[16:23] <seb128> yes
[16:23] <rodrigo_> seb128, I can do it, as soon as I finish other stuff I'm doing
[16:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, you do the shemas one and I do gnome-desktop? I had some change from debian to merge in
[16:24] <seb128> in gnome-desktop I mean
[16:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[16:24] <seb128> great
[16:26] <rodrigo_> man, dh_scour doesn't like me
[16:28] <seb128> it should not fail builds
[16:29] <seb128> it might complain though
[16:29] <devildante> seb128: complaining is the beginning of failures...
[16:29] <seb128> well pitti said it doesn't fail build if it fails to do its job
[16:29] <seb128> I think
[16:30] <rodrigo_> seb128, it stops builds here, with 'too many values to unpack'
[16:30] <seb128> it should just be a warning
[16:30] <seb128> you are sure it stops on that?
[16:30] <seb128> I've seen those as well but they are just warnings
[16:30] <seb128> on what source?
[16:31] <rodrigo_> seb128, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/533509/
[16:31] <rodrigo_> seb128, gnome-applets
[16:31] <seb128> rodrigo_, can you open a bug and assign it to pitti?
[16:31] <rodrigo_> yes
[16:31] <seb128> thanks
[16:31] <rodrigo_> on which project on LP?
[16:32] <seb128> rodrigo_, scour
[16:32] <seb128> well the ubuntu scour package
[16:33] <seb128> rodrigo_, is there a gnome-applets update?
[16:34] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, just building it with my patch for migrating null and invest applets to not use deprecated stuff
[16:34] <seb128> oh ok
[16:34] <seb128> did you solve the null applet question?
[16:34] <seb128> the applets to list there
[16:34] <rodrigo_> the null applet thing works, yes, and just waiting for vuntz to accept the patch
[16:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, there's a BonoboId thing on the .panel-applet files
[16:35] <seb128> so with your patches there is no bonoboui use left?
[16:35] <rodrigo_> but not so sure about the invest applet changes, and jhbuilt panel crashes for me adding any applet, so building a package to test it for real
[16:36] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, no more bonobo and libpanel-applet-2
[16:36] <vuntz> rodrigo_: no no no no, I don't maintain gnome-applets, so you're not waiting for me :-)
[16:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, great ;-)
[16:36] <rodrigo_> vuntz, then, why did you answer on the bug??? :D
[16:36] <rodrigo_> vuntz, you maintain it now, as soon as you answer on a bug :)
[16:36] <vuntz> rodrigo_: well, you wrote code, you maintain it
[16:37] <rodrigo_> :)
[16:37] <rodrigo_> now seriously, who maintains it?
[16:37]  * rodrigo_ looks at .doap
[16:37] <vuntz> enrico
[16:37] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[16:37] <vuntz> and desrt, obviously
[16:37] <rodrigo_> you know his nick on irc?
[16:37] <vuntz> he'll pretend he doesn't, but desrt likes to lie
[16:38] <rodrigo_> :D
[16:38] <vuntz> don't know if he's on irc
[16:38] <dbarth_> pitti: hey martin, could i ask for a gentle kick of the burn down chart script before my call? ;)
[16:38] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, there's no ubuntu scour package on LP
[16:39] <rodrigo_> h yes, there is
[16:39] <rodrigo_> search didn't find it
[16:42] <seb128> dbarth_, today is an holiday in his part of Germany
[16:42] <seb128> dbarth_, he's probably not around
[16:42] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scour/+bug/676566 will ping pitti tomorrow about it
[16:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 676566 in scour (Ubuntu) "dh_scour stops builds on Natty (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[16:42] <rodrigo_> seb128, any way to trick it to not stop in the meanwhile so that I can build stuff?
[16:43] <seb128> rodrigo_, he will probably see the pings in the IRC backlog
[16:43] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, right
[16:43] <kklimonda> DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.217 was not provided by any .service files - this error is misleading, right? I don't think names like ":1.217" are provided by service files..
[16:43] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, yes, that seems like a bug, although it might mean that the service has died
[16:44] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, so, it tries to loook for it in .service files
[16:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, you can set DEB_DH_SCOURL_ARGS
[16:44] <rodrigo_> ok
[16:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, I guess DEB_DH_SCOURL_ARGS := --no-act
[16:45] <seb128> or -Xitemtoexclude
[16:45] <rodrigo_> ok, thanks
[16:51] <kklimonda> rodrigo_: if I comment on a resolved notagnome bug is my response sent to developers?
[16:51] <rodrigo_> kklimonda, yes
[16:55] <kklimonda> thanks
[17:02] <seb128> lol
[17:03] <seb128> didrocks, your cache patch fails to apply to gnome-desktop 2.91.2
[17:03] <didrocks> vuntz: !!!
[17:03] <didrocks> vuntz: please look at it, more than 3 times I rebase it in less than a month
[17:03] <didrocks> :)
[17:03] <vuntz> I blame rodrigo_ since he did that release
[17:04] <rodrigo_> heh
[17:04] <rodrigo_> there was some reverts since 2.91.1
[17:04] <rodrigo_> so that might be the cause
[17:04] <didrocks> revert? :/
[17:04] <Riddell> do we have a maintainer for openoffice these days?
[17:04] <rodrigo_> didrocks, what's the patch?
[17:05] <rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, reverted commits that were in 2.91.1
[17:05] <didrocks> I spent half an hour to adapt to the new version for them being reverting :/
[17:05] <didrocks> (at midnight!)
[17:05] <didrocks> snif :/
[17:05] <seb128> didrocks,  rodrigo_, ok, it's easy to fix this time
[17:05] <seb128> don't worry I'm doing it
[17:05] <didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
[17:06] <rodrigo_> didrocks, yeah, changing too much these days
[17:06] <didrocks> seb128: can you repost it upstream? in case they decided to have a look at it *finally*
[17:06] <didrocks> vuntz: ^^
[17:06] <didrocks> christmas is not that far :)
[17:07] <seb128> didrocks, it's a one liner in the include but I'm lazy to git clone gnome-desktop only for that
[17:07] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I didn't propose a git format patch for the last change as I was fed up rebasing it
[17:07] <seb128> ok, I can attach the new patch to the bug
[17:08] <rodrigo_> you might have to rebase it again, as soon as the reverted commits come back :)
[17:08] <didrocks> well, if it's one line, it will be ok :)
[17:08] <rodrigo_> seb128, what's the bug #?
[17:09] <didrocks> rodrigo_: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608419
[17:09] <ubot2> didrocks: Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=608419)
[17:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, should I package 2.91.2 anyway or should I wait for a fixed version?
[17:10] <rodrigo_> seb128, the new g-s-d would need that 2.91.2, so yes, package it if it's not too much work
[17:10] <seb128> ok
[17:30] <rodrigo_> bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty
[17:31] <rodrigo_> hmm, so what file do I need to edit to make bzr know about natty?
[17:31] <devildante> rodrigo_: maybe you should need to wait until alpha1
[17:31] <devildante> maybe :
[17:31] <devildante> :p
[17:31] <rodrigo_> devildante, I'm already on natty
[17:31] <devildante> "maybe you should need to wait until alpha1"
[17:31] <devildante> alpha1 is the key word
[17:32] <rodrigo_> devildante, hmm, not sure I get it, what do you mean?
[17:32] <devildante> rodrigo_: afaik, alpha1 is not out yet
[17:32] <devildante> or am I stupid?
[17:33] <rodrigo_> devildante, no, you're not, you're very clever, but since I'm already on natty, and I can build natty packages just fine, I guess it's bzr who's the stupid one :D
[17:33] <devildante> lol
[17:33] <rodrigo_> this is from bzr merge-upstream
[17:33] <rodrigo_> bzr bd builds natty packages fine
[17:37] <dobey> rodrigo_: weird
[17:37] <didrocks> rodrigo_: you can edit /usr/share/pyshared/bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/util.py
[17:37] <didrocks> add natty to UBUNTU_RELEASES
[17:38] <rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, ok
[17:39] <rodrigo_> didrocks, right, that made it, thanks
[17:39] <rodrigo_> didrocks, but why bzr bd didn0't need that, and merge-upstream does?
[17:39] <seb128> iz james_w bog
[17:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, I've uploaded the new gnome-desktop
[17:40] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, proposing a merge of gsettings-desktop-schemas soon
[17:40] <didrocks> rodrigo_: not sure, we should patch everything (pbuilder debuild and others…) to get one reference, that would be nice :)
[17:40] <rodrigo_> didrocks, right
[17:45] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gsettings-desktop-schemas/0_1_1_release/+merge/41075
[17:45] <rodrigo_> seb128, btw, for source package branches, is the merge proposal the correct way?
[17:45] <rodrigo_> since they include all upstream changes, it makes the diffs quite big
[17:45] <seb128> yes
[17:45] <rodrigo_> ok
[17:45] <rodrigo_> I just changed debian/changelog :)
[17:46] <seb128> rodrigo_,
[17:46] <seb128> - <default>'dmz-aa'</default>
[17:46] <seb128> 1494	+ <default>'Adwaita'</default>
[17:46] <rodrigo_> seb128, and do they need to be merged to lp:ubuntu/... branch, or that gets done automatically when the package is uploaded and accepted
[17:46] <seb128> rodrigo_, do we want to revert that? or use a theme we ship at least?
[17:46] <seb128> rodrigo_, it's done automatically on upload
[17:46] <mterry> seb128, do you know of any reason I shouldn't update devhelp as part of the anjuta situation?  anjuta is its library's only rdepends, but I'm wondering if we know of any conflict around webkit or whatever
[17:47] <rodrigo_> yes, Adwaita is a gtk3 theme, afaik
[17:47] <seb128> mterry, I don't know about any reason no but I don't know really know what is happening on that
[17:47] <mterry> seb128, OK, will investigate
[17:48] <seb128> mterry, ok
[17:48] <seb128> rodrigo_, approved
[17:48] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, so do I upload it now?
[17:49] <seb128> rodrigo_, we will need to make sure we tweak the gsettings default for theme etc when we start having gtk3 softwares built
[17:49] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes
[17:49] <rodrigo_> yes
[17:50] <rodrigo_> seb128, we might need some gsettings stuff like the .gconf-defaults thing
[17:50] <rodrigo_> ok, uploaded now
[17:52] <rodrigo_> oh, rejected -> Rejected:
[17:52] <rodrigo_> The signer of this package is lacking the upload rights for the source package, component or package set in question.
[17:52] <rodrigo_> it's not part of ubuntu-desktop?
[17:54] <rodrigo_> seb128, didrocks: so, when you have time, can you do the upload, please?
[17:54] <rodrigo_> I need to go now, so bbl
[18:08] <didrocks> ok, enough for today, see you tomorrow (rodrigo_ ping me if you fixed everything listed above tomorrow morning)
[18:20] <mterry> james_w, what was the page to see if there are bzr import errors for certain packages?
[18:20] <mterry> I'm going to bookmark it this time
[18:21] <mterry> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ !
[18:22] <james_w> yep
[18:22] <mterry> james_w, I'm interested in this failure: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/libunique.html#2010-02-22%2001:00:33.162149
[18:26] <mterry> seb128, no one has claimed libunique3 right?  anjuta wants that, and it will probably need to be a new source
[18:27] <seb128> mterry, no, but I'm surprised I though that was deprecated with gtk3
[18:28] <mterry> seb128, arguably yes.  But it's provided as a crutch while GtkApplication stabilizes and to ease the transition
[18:28] <seb128> mterry, ok, it's all yours then ;-)
[18:28] <mterry> seb128, hopefully a one-cycle kind of package
[18:28] <seb128> yeah
[19:47] <dobey> Laney: i already added the schme handler mime types to firefox.desktop, so it correctly opens firefox; but the calling app blocks until the command has exitied, it seems.
[19:48] <Laney> hmm
[19:52] <dobey> and for some reason, that seems to take some time :(
[21:37] <kenvandine> mterry, around?
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> hurry up internet!
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> :)
[21:40] <mterry> kenvandine, yah
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> uploading a 60MB tarball is too slow
[21:40] <kenvandine> mterry, great... having a problem with dbusmenu
[21:40] <kenvandine> not even gtk3 related
[21:41] <kenvandine> just trying to build it for gtk2 i am getting tons of errors, conflicts of definitions between GIR and vapigen
[21:41] <kenvandine> Gdk-2.0.gir:21644.7-21644.6: error: `Gdk' already contains a definition for `utf8_to_string_target'
[21:41] <kenvandine>       <parameters>
[21:41] <kenvandine>       
[21:41] <kenvandine> gdk-2.0.vapi:2015.2-2015.51: note: previous definition of `utf8_to_string_target' was here
[21:41] <kenvandine> 	public static unowned string utf8_to_string_target (string str);
[21:41] <kenvandine> like that
[21:41] <kenvandine> seen anything like that?
[21:42] <mterry> kenvandine, yes...  In my case it was a bug with vapigen that a function like foo_new_target_name and foo_target_name were conflicting with same error.  Doesn't quite look like yours is a 'new' namespace issue though
[21:42] <kenvandine> if i remove some includes from the GIR file it is quieter
[21:43] <kenvandine> but of course then it can't find things it needs
[21:43] <mterry> oh wait.  why is the gir aware of the vapi file?
[21:43] <kenvandine> tedg, says it works on maverick
[21:43] <kenvandine> it uses the GIR to generate the vapi
[21:43] <mterry> well, mav was vala-0.10, I believe
[21:43] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:43] <kenvandine> exactly
[21:43] <kenvandine> /usr/bin/vapigen --library=DbusmenuGtk-0.2 --pkg gdk-pixbuf-2.0 --pkg gtk+-2.0  --pkg atk --pkg Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2 --vapidir=../libdbusmenu-glib DbusmenuGtk-0.2.tmp.gir
[21:43] <kenvandine> is what it runs
[21:44] <mterry> kenvandine, I don't believe vala-0.12's gir support is 100% yet, but the goal would be that you don't need to generate vapis anymore if you have a gir.  So if you don't have active consumers of it yet...
[21:45] <mterry> kenvandine, OK, I think I see what happened
[21:45] <kenvandine> tedg, do you know if anyone is using dbusmenu's vapi?  unity maybe?
[21:45] <tedg> kenvandine, I'm not sure.  Well, anyone using the libindicate VAPI would by inclusion.
[21:45] <mterry> kenvandine, Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2 is pulling in Gdk-2.0.gir as a dependency and gtk+-2.0 is pulling in gdk-2.0.vapi
[21:46] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:46] <mterry> kenvandine, it looks like valac doesn't have such conflict resolution.  So it may be an all or nothing gir or vapi
[21:46] <tedg> mterry, The odd part is that it did on 0.10....
[21:46] <kenvandine> so dropping the Gtk include line in the GIR it is much cleaner
[21:46] <tedg> So it seems that it has to be a 0.12 bug
[21:47] <kenvandine> but then it fails to find one function from gtk
[21:47] <kenvandine> so 900 failures in one direction, and 1 failure the other way :)
[21:47] <mterry> kenvandine, if you convert the other --pkg includess to be gir includes, does that work?  (probably not, but...)
[21:47] <mterry> so like Gtk-2.0 and GdkPixbuf-2.0 etc
[21:47]  * kenvandine tries
[21:50] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: You have never had to upload ia32-libs then.
[21:50]  * mterry suspects that valac can't handle the full glory of Gtk-2.0 yet
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso, i have ;)
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> but i did that from ronne :)
[21:51] <TheMuso> Ok then stop complaining. :)
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[21:51] <TheMuso> Oh ok
[21:51] <kenvandine> much cleaner
[21:51] <kenvandine> Gio-2.0.gir:35338.9-35338.8: error: `SimpleAsyncResult' already contains a definition for `take_error'
[21:51]  * TheMuso has uploaded ia32-libs on a DSL line with 384kbps upstream at one point. That was an overnight job.
[21:51] <kenvandine> so it is down to 1 conflict
[21:52] <micahg> chrisccoulson: speaking of 60MB tarballs have you done any testing on maverick with that build?
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> micahg - nope ;)
[21:52] <micahg> chrisccoulson: more fun for me I guess :)
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> micahg - you might want to base firefox-next on what is in the dailies atm. i had to revert quite a bit of stuff for natty :(
[21:53] <mterry> kenvandine,  that's my error!  :)  there's a bugzilla bug for that one
[21:53] <kenvandine> hehe
[21:53] <kenvandine> sigh
[21:53] <kenvandine> link?
[21:53] <mterry> kenvandine, I don't know the workaround for it though
[21:53] <micahg> chrisccoulson: hmm, I guess that's a good point, otherwise, I'll have to do funny upgrade magic
[21:53] <mterry> kenvandine, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634588
[21:54] <ubot2> Gnome bug 634588 in Bindings "Gio-2.0.gir 'take_error' parse error" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, and firefox-trunk is what i *want* the packaging to look like :)
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> it's just a shame i can't make it work properly
[21:56] <mterry> kenvandine, Jürg's comment is a bit terse.  Not sure whether it's being worked on
[21:56] <kenvandine> mterry, so no work around yet...
[21:56] <kenvandine> i was just going to say that
[21:57] <mterry> kenvandine, what's the one thing it complains about if you drop the gtk include from the gir?
[21:58] <kenvandine> i have to actually remove several things to get down to the one error
[21:58] <kenvandine> there are actually two errors, but just one from gtk
[21:58] <kenvandine> i'll have to try again to get it
[21:59] <seb128> re
[21:59] <seb128> kenvandine, mterry: you can maybe try asking #vala about the issue?
[21:59] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[22:00] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[22:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, hello
[22:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, there?
[22:01] <robert_ancell> hey
[22:01] <seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
[22:01] <seb128> robert_ancell, I didn't have time to work on rb today, what error did you get?
[22:02] <seb128> I can have a go to it tomorrow
[22:02] <seb128> was that a build issue or run time issue?
[22:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, build issue, can't remember what it was
[22:02] <seb128> ok
[22:02] <seb128> I will try tomorrow
[22:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise I tried nautilus
[22:03] <robert_ancell> I think it was a linker issue (there have been a lot of those due to the --as-needed change) but I couldn't work out why it was occurring
[22:03] <seb128> it's having issues which I think could be due to gtk version conflicts
[22:03] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, does it not run?
[22:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, using .so which have gtk symbols (I think) take it down
[22:04] <seb128> like try to open the properties of a video or pdf file
[22:04] <seb128> those which are just adding a context menu entry seems to be ok
[22:04] <seb128> rodrigo_, mterry: ^
[22:04] <seb128> (if you followed that discussion the other day)
[22:04] <robert_ancell> do you know if that's a plugin?
[22:04] <seb128> yes, those a .so installed by totem or evince
[22:04]  * robert_ancell boots his vm
[22:04] <seb128> ls /usr/lib/nautilus/...
[22:05] <robert_ancell> right, so we need them updated too
[22:05] <seb128> ok, that's what I though
[22:06] <seb128> it's difficult to know what to do
[22:06] <robert_ancell> hmm, I just tried the example content and that worked ok
[22:06] <kenvandine> DbusmenuGtk-0.2.tmp.gir:0.0-0.0: error: The type name `Gtk.MenuClass' could not be found
[22:06] <kenvandine> DbusmenuGtk-0.2.tmp.gir:0.0-0.0: error: The type name `Dbusmenu.ClientClass' could not be found
[22:06] <kenvandine> mterry, that is the other error
[22:06] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you get a video tab?
[22:06] <robert_ancell> no
[22:06] <seb128> hum
[22:06] <seb128> is totem installed?
[22:07] <robert_ancell> looking
[22:07] <mterry> kenvandine, well, presumably the Dbusmenu one could go away by including its vapi file as a --pkg.  I'm not sure why the gtk+-2.0 vapi file doesn't have Gtk.MenuClass?
[22:07] <robert_ancell> no totem
[22:07] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, install it
[22:07] <seb128> or try on a pdf if you have evince
[22:07] <robert_ancell> there isn't a PDF handy on this vm
[22:08] <seb128> open a firefox and google for one?
[22:08] <robert_ancell> right, got the crash opening a video
[22:08] <seb128> ok
[22:08] <robert_ancell> I'll update totem and evince in the PPA today
[22:08] <seb128> I didn't debug much
[22:09] <kenvandine> so we need to figure out the Gio thing... i'll try to look into that later tonight
[22:09] <seb128> but I've the feeling it's the gtk version mismatch
[22:09] <kenvandine> i gotta run for a bit
[22:09] <seb128> kenvandine, what gio?
[22:09] <kenvandine> the GIR problem
[22:09] <kenvandine> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634588
[22:09] <ubot2> Gnome bug 634588 in Bindings "Gio-2.0.gir 'take_error' parse error" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[22:09] <robert_ancell> I'll respond to your email, but this is the sort of thing I'm worried about if we include any GNOME3 apps, they really will drag in eachother
[22:09] <seb128> kenvandine, oh ok
[22:10] <seb128> robert_ancell, I've been trying to build a comprehensive list of what brings what in the whiteboard
[22:10] <kenvandine> seb128, i'll be getting a late start tomorrow, parent teacher conference... in case anyone is looking for me :)
[22:10] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah I've been following that
[22:10] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, RAOF, meeting?
[22:10] <TheMuso> Sure.
[22:10]  * kenvandine waves!
[22:10] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[22:10] <seb128> kenvandine, see you tomorrow!
[22:10] <seb128> robert_ancell, well it makes me nervous as well, we can either go for it and deal with issues as they come
[22:11] <seb128> robert_ancell, or keep things in the ppa and keep working on those sets of things which need to go together until mid-cycle
[22:11] <seb128> then we need to decide
[22:11] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think the latter is safest
[22:11] <seb128> but we will probably have a comprehensive idea of what are the sets and the changes by then
[22:11] <robert_ancell> seb128, perhaps we should encourage people to use the PPA so we get good testing
[22:11] <seb128> right
[22:11] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Yup.
[22:12]  * robert_ancell reads the notes from the western ed.
[22:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, you do your meetings one day later than us now?
[22:13] <seb128> the meeting yesterday was very light in any case, jasoncwarner go screwed by the dst and calendars
[22:13] <seb128> so he missed it
[22:13] <robert_ancell> So I've just been working on GNOME2.32 stuff and GNOME3 stuff.  Getting GNOME 2.32.1 into natty, and 2.91 into a PPA so we can test it.  Just lots of stuff to work through
[22:13] <seb128> and we didn't have lot to cover otherwise
[22:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, not sure why we're one day late, I propose we move it back
[22:14] <robert_ancell> I'm working towards getting the latest Yelp into the PPA so TheMuso can test it for a11y coverage
[22:14] <chrisccoulson> excellent, i've finished all my work items for beta 1 :)
[22:14] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sounds good.
[22:14] <robert_ancell> We're really keen to use it because the current yelp is not good
[22:15] <TheMuso> I second the proposal to move the meeting back a day, I'll just see if Jason is able to do so...
[22:15] <TheMuso> Yeah I can understand that.
[22:15] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, how is a11y going in general?
[22:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, congrats ;-)
[22:15] <robert_ancell> (and sound)
[22:15] <seb128> robert_ancell, I would say the current version is so slow it's not usable anyway
[22:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, agreed
[22:15] <seb128> so it's either useless for everybody or useless if you need accessiblity
[22:16] <chrisccoulson> hmm, anybody know when we get the first language packs for natty?
[22:16] <seb128> so I would say to upgrade even if it's an a11y regression
[22:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you should check with dpm and pitti tomorrow but I'm not sure rosetta is open yet for natty
[22:16] <chrisccoulson> that's ok then. gives me a bit of time to get the ff-4.0 translations ready
[22:17] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: a11y is going ok, you may have seen my reply to Seb's mail about webkit, mentioning at-spi via dbus.
[22:17] <TheMuso> I have been testing the dbus implementation, and performance is a major issue that needs sorting out.
[22:17] <seb128> TheMuso, did you get any upstream reply on whether somebody is adressing those speed issues? or if at least they are known issues?
[22:17] <TheMuso> seb128: Nothing yet. They are known issues, but nothing about addressing them yet.,
[22:18] <TheMuso> I poked one of the devs on IRC< but I'll also send an email to the list.
[22:18] <seb128> ok, let us know if,when they reply
[22:18] <TheMuso> Will do.
[22:19] <seb128> thanks
[22:19] <robert_ancell> RAOF, how is X land?  Also, do you know about the version of banshee in natty?
[22:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, 1.9 got uploaded today
[22:19] <robert_ancell> oh, it just got updated :)
[22:19] <TheMuso> Oh and sound wise, nothing really drastic, just status quo, pulling fixes from upstream for pulse, triaging audio bugs. :)
[22:19] <RAOF> Ok, I don't know about the version of banshee in natty, then :)
[22:19] <TheMuso> But since I am rotating I won't be giving as much to sound this cycle.
[22:20] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, cool. ok
[22:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, did you try the new g-c-c in the ppa yet?
[22:20] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, it needs some work
[22:20] <RAOF> X land is pretty much in sync with Debian.  Major version changes are waiting on the existence of major versions upstream.
[22:20]  * Laney hears banshee and pops up
[22:20] <Laney> waiting for mono -4
[22:20]  * Laney fades away again
[22:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, how much of an improvement do you think it is?
[22:21] <seb128> it's hard to balance issues and work against win in that GNOME3 story
[22:21] <RAOF> I'm polishing a patch for mesa to slim the DRI drivers by 30MB.
[22:21] <robert_ancell> Laney, the mono packaging seems to be well taken care of by the community, is that correct?
[22:21] <robert_ancell> seb128, not an improvement until it's all there functionality wise
[22:21] <robert_ancell> RAOF, nice :)
[22:21] <Laney> I think so, until you hear differently ;-)
[22:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, my gut feeling is that we should delay until mid-cycle and work in the ppa
[22:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, agreed
[22:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, we don't have so much to do but at some point unity work will start reaching us
[22:22] <Laney> you can switch the seeds now but we have 1800k or so more of savings to come with -4
[22:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think there may be a risk of it not being finished (like the rest of GNOME3, so I wouldn't want us to be caught in that)
[22:22] <seb128> it's just taking time to get started
[22:22] <RAOF> How much change is involved in the new g-c-c?
[22:22] <Laney> so we thought we'd wait for that
[22:23] <seb128> RAOF, quite some, they embed the different capplets in it
[22:23] <seb128> like they started merging the nautilus automount dialog in it
[22:23] <RAOF> Is it the near-total rewrite that it appears to be?  Because some of the multimonitor WIs touch the Monitors capplet, and so are affected by which one we pick.
[22:23] <seb128> so it impacts nautilus now
[22:23] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it's got some nice design changes which are good, it's just going to take time for it all to be completed
[22:23] <seb128> they are starting working on getting the screen and power settings there
[22:23] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it's a mix of rewriting and refactoring
[22:23] <seb128> so gpm will need to be changed etc
[22:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm wondering if we could make your g-s-d writes the font key in gsettings at least
[22:25] <seb128> g-s-d g-c-c rather
[22:25] <seb128> it would unblock some of the applications updates
[22:25] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, it's worth looking at - open a bug
[22:25] <seb128> I will chat with rodrigo about it tomorrow
[22:25] <seb128> the other option is to not bother much until mid cycle and work on the ppa
[22:26] <robert_ancell> RAOF, TheMuso, ok, that's my attempt at running a meeting.  Are you guys familiar with Scrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28development%29#Meetings) - I'm thinking of proposing that as a meeting structure
[22:26] <seb128> until we start to get unity tasks
[22:26] <TheMuso> Not familiar with it, but will have a read.
[22:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think the PPA is our best investment.  And yes, we might just have to drop it when Unity comes :)
[22:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, let's do the meeting thing and then we can go back to chatting about GNOME if we want
[22:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think we're done, anyone else got something to say?
[22:27] <RAOF> At what point will we know whether or not the new g-c-c is going in natty?  Because that'll determine whether I hack on the existing monitors capplet, or the (quite different) new one.
[22:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, this scrum structure seems rather apprioriate for a team working on the same things
[22:28] <seb128> by a quick glance on the wiki
[22:28] <seb128> like the unity team
[22:28] <seb128> it would not really fit people working on let's say, GNOME, X, firefox
[22:28]  * TheMuso agrees.
[22:28] <seb128> RAOF, join the list of people asking, some of the dx changes are pending on that as well
[22:29] <seb128> which is one of the reasons why I would like us to decide early if we cdan
[22:29] <robert_ancell> RAOF, probably mid-cycle, but it's worth hedging your bets and adding a patch to the PPA if it's a small amount of work
[22:29] <seb128> can
[22:29] <seb128> RAOF, I would do the patch for the new version and declare it will land next cycle if it happens that doesn't land this cycle
[22:29] <seb128> lot of users will run the GNOME3 ppa imho anyway if that's not landing in natty
[22:30] <RAOF> Yeah, that's the guaranteed least-work scenario.
[22:30] <robert_ancell> I'm thinking scrum precisely because we practically none of our work overlaps, we just inform eachother of what's happening and if anyone can help out.  The scrum structure just seems an efficient way of communicating that
[22:31] <robert_ancell> (I'm only referring to the daily scrum part on the wiki)
[22:32] <seb128> that seems approriate for daily meetings
[22:32] <seb128> like the dx team is doing
[22:32] <seb128> they do a short summary call every morning with what they did
[22:32] <robert_ancell> seb128, can you explain how they do there ones?
[22:32] <seb128> what they are blocked on
[22:32] <seb128> what they do next
[22:32] <seb128> they go through the team members, a few minutes each
[22:33] <RAOF> FWIW, I wouldn't *mind* a daily 15 minute meeting, but I don't think it'd be particularly fruitful.
[22:33] <seb128> and each teach member list what he has been working on, what issue he has, and what he will work on next
[22:33] <cyphermox> robert_ancell, seb128: that's more or less what we do by adding what we've worked on in the wiki for the weekly meetings
[22:33] <seb128> well it's useful for dx because lot of those guys work on the same code
[22:34] <seb128> it's a bit less useful if you work on X and GNOME for example
[22:34] <seb128> the overlap is quite small usually
[22:34] <cyphermox> I know (from speaking with mathiaz) that the server team heavily uses a lot of these techniques, it could be interesting to know more about how they hold their meetings ;)
[22:34] <seb128> you also need to be in the same timezones to do that
[22:35] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, do you find the wiki list useful?  I find it a little dense for reading a weeks worth at once
[22:35] <seb128> robert_ancell, the foundation team used (still do?) to do something similar for their weekly meeting
[22:35] <seb128> we did it for a while as well in the desktop team
[22:35] <cyphermox> robert_ancell, I agree. just saying I guess it was the point, though it's missing blockers and stuff, which we'd cover in the irc meeting AOB, my guess
[22:35] <seb128> (or maybe that was when there was only one distro team)
[22:35] <seb128> going to the team members
[22:36] <seb128> having each members giving a few bullet points of the noticable things of the week
[22:36] <seb128> things that he,she worked on or that could interest other people
[22:37] <seb128> we just had issues that if you give 3 minutes each and you have 10 people to go through it's taking a while and not so interesting compared to just read the activity reports
[22:37] <robert_ancell> The other thing, is the eastern edition being behind the main meeting means we're not really making decisions in it.  If you accumulated a weeks worth of daily standups and brought those to the western edition it would be more useful
[22:37] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you try to solve and issue or just make the meetings useful?
[22:38] <Zdra> hi, any idea how I can get theming working with gtk3 app? I've backporter the gtk3 pacakge on maverick
[22:38] <seb128> and -> an
[22:38] <seb128> Zdra, there is nothing to do, just install a gtk3 theme
[22:38] <robert_ancell> seb128, making them more worthwhile, and making sure they meet the goal of communicating to everyone (including those not at the meeting) what we're working on, what the problems are
[22:38] <seb128> Zdra, you probably need the gtk engine for the theme you need built on gtk3
[22:38] <seb128> Zdra, you need a gtkrc in the gtk3 path as well
[22:39] <seb128> natty has both of those
[22:39] <robert_ancell> Zdra, you just need to symlink /usr/share/themes/*/gtk-2.0 to gtk-3.0
[22:39] <seb128> you need to build the engine for gtk3 as well
[22:39] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you think we need a meeting for that?
[22:39] <seb128> the issue with meetings are the timezones
[22:40] <seb128> not sure if we could solve that by changing the activity report format or the weekly wiki page
[22:40] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Do you mean having a daily eastern edition and then batching that up for the weekly western one?
[22:40] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yes
[22:40] <seb128> robert_ancell, we don't really decide anything in meeting btw
[22:41] <seb128> we just usually try to do a status update
[22:41] <robert_ancell> seb128, the issue is also scaling - even if we were all in one timezone the meeting wouldn't be more effective.  And the weekly summary is too big I think
[22:42] <robert_ancell> RAOF, note it might not necessarily be daily, but I think that's worth trying (considering it's only 15 mins)
[22:42] <seb128> do you think we should have one summary for everybody?
[22:43] <Zdra> seb128, robert_ancell: thx
[22:43] <robert_ancell> seb128, of the most important things to keep the list digestable.  Perhaps a list of "good things" (i.e. new stuff) and "bad things" (i.e. problems to be solved)
[22:43] <RAOF> What is the purpose of the summary?
[22:43] <seb128> ok, so not an activity report summary
[22:43] <seb128> but rather a "things other people should know"
[22:43] <robert_ancell> RAOF, to communicate to the team what is going on, so we have good visibility and can help eachother out with problems
[22:43] <seb128> things which will affect them or where you might need help from someone?
[22:44] <seb128> like don't dump the list of GNOME point release updates we did
[22:44] <seb128> but things like "gtk3 landed, we need to update those..."
[22:44]  * jasoncwarner back
[22:44] <seb128> hey jasoncwarner
[22:44] <RAOF> Which means the "good things", "bad things" lists might be a more effective way of communicating?
[22:45] <seb128> jasoncwarner, ^ you should read the few screens backlog
[22:45] <robert_ancell> so, I'd expect something like this.  There is a list that everyone in the team can easily read (and including people in the community).  I contains new things you might want to know about (e.g. unity now available) and issues (like having problems with upgrading this package, and investigating)
[22:45] <jasoncwarner> fwiw (catching up on conversation) that is how I used to try to run meetings ... when we had an india operation and a Phoenix one...local teams would do daily standups and send summaries to other team. summaries were things like
[22:45] <seb128> jasoncwarner, it's an interesting topic, would be nice to have your opinion
[22:45] <jasoncwarner> 1. we did x, y and z
[22:45] <jasoncwarner> 2. we are blocked on this, need help
[22:45] <seb128> jasoncwarner, ignore me, seems you did already ;-)
[22:46] <seb128> well that work fine for dx for example because they have full teams working on the same things
[22:46] <jasoncwarner> seb128: yup
[22:47] <seb128> like the india and the phoenix team have high bandwith communication and a status on one project
[22:47] <jasoncwarner> seb128: we had two teams, 12 hours apart, working on the same code base
[22:47] <jasoncwarner> different here
[22:47] <seb128> right
[22:47] <seb128> I know I've been trying recently to keep communication going for the GNOME3 updates
[22:47] <robert_ancell> here we're both working simultaneously on the same thing (ubuntu) and nothing (very little of our day-to-day work overlaps)
[22:47] <seb128> but it's not easy
[22:48] <seb128> I send emails on random topics and Cc people who I think are useful to have in the conversation
[22:48] <seb128> usually robert_ancell, rodrigo_, mterry and sometime some others
[22:48] <seb128> but I feel it's suboptimal
[22:48] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, we have a mini GNOME team within desktop now it seems
[22:48] <robert_ancell> I feel like it must be really hard for the community to get visibility into what we do
[22:48] <seb128> yes
[22:49] <seb128> I've been thinking about that and I tried to update the blueprint whiteboard regularly
[22:49] <seb128> but that's still suboptimal
[22:49] <robert_ancell> how about we take a meeting task to discuss this at the sprint?  I think it would be easier to plan this in a high-bandwidth environment
[22:49] <seb128> robert_ancell, well, are you interested by what happens in Xorg or firefox?
[22:49] <rickspencer3> the team meetings don't take of it?
[22:49] <jasoncwarner> how much information is comprised in that list, seb128? for instance, like, what is useful out of your day-to-day that you would like a broader audience to know about.?
[22:49] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes
[22:50] <robert_ancell> seb128, because sometime what xorg does affects me (so I need to be prepared), and other times there are things in xorg that I have an opinion on (because it affects me) or I can help out with (because I might randomly have some skills/interests there).  And the same vice-versa I assume?
[22:50] <RAOF> Right.
[22:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, well, we have different things to covert there, weekly status update, activity tracking from a manager perspective, communication with interested people
[22:51] <seb128> robert_ancell, right, but that for sure doesn't happen every day or week
[22:51] <seb128> usually it's like "new xserver abi breakage will happen in 2 months"
[22:51] <seb128> and there is not a lot of things in those 2 months that impact what we do
[22:52] <seb128> it's just standard edger updates, merges on debian, bug fixing, etc
[22:52] <rickspencer3> maybe having an Eastern and Western Edition is not quite the right factoring?
[22:52] <robert_ancell> seb128, sure, and that's ok because if nothing interesting is happening it doesn't need to be in the list (or maybe we just have a placeholder - X maintenance)
[22:52] <rickspencer3> like you could have a GNOME edition and an everything else edition?
[22:52] <rickspencer3> are any of the GNOMEy folks based in the US?
[22:53] <rickspencer3> (just an idea to throw out)
[22:53] <seb128> well seems we have several communications needs
[22:53] <rickspencer3> :)
[22:53] <seb128> we need a way to let people have an idea of what's happening
[22:53] <seb128> and we need higher bandwith talks for subteams
[22:53] <seb128> like GNOME
[22:53] <seb128> those are 2 different things imho
[22:53] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I think having the one meeting is useful because the meeting is about the Ubuntu product, not so much the specific technologies.  We already have informal GNOME meetings on IRC
[22:53] <seb128> they don't fit in the same meeting format
[22:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, agreed
[22:54] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, regarding eastern vs. western - I think that's just unavoidable if we want to sleep :)
[22:54] <RAOF> This makes sense to me.
[22:55] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, Europe + Aus work, and US + Aus works, but Europe + US + Aus does not work
[22:55] <rickspencer3> just saying
[22:55] <robert_ancell> right
[22:55] <rickspencer3> anyway, I was just throwing it out there
[22:56] <seb128> I think one thing we learnt from years and meeting format is that real time meeting for status update are not the right format
[22:56] <seb128> it's hard to get people together and usually it turns to be boring
[22:57] <seb128> it's easier to read status updates somewhere online at your convenient time when you start your day
[22:57] <robert_ancell> seb128, right, that's the idea with the fixed 15 min timeframe in scrum, but this would certainly be harder in the western edition
[22:57] <rickspencer3> but meetings mean people can ask questions easy, and everyone can see the question and answer
[22:57] <seb128> right, meetings are useful
[22:58] <seb128> they are just not useful for status updates imho
[22:58] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, and that's the downside of the meeting split, because sometimes the questions need to cross hemispheres
[22:58] <seb128> they are useful to have dynamic interactions and discussions
[22:58] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, right, thus my suggestion that there may be a chance that a functional split may be doable
[22:59] <seb128> or we should try to have subteams meeting with interested people every now and then or when required
[22:59] <Sarvatt> has anyone with an intel GPU on natty noticed any screen freezing problems?
[22:59] <seb128> Sarvatt, I didn't
[22:59] <rickspencer3> Sarvatt, I have i965, have been running Natty for 24 hours, no freezes
[22:59] <Sarvatt> RAOF: disable page flip patch might still be needed (see #intel-gfx) :(
[22:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, we sort of do that in the western land
[23:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, we start all around the same time, give or take 1 hour
[23:00] <seb128> and we do chat a lot on IRC
[23:00] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Yeah, seen that.  But it's much, much better now, 'cause everyone hasn't been screaming :)
[23:00] <seb128> we tend to start the day by saying hello and checking how people are doing
[23:00] <seb128> it's not a formal meeting
[23:00] <robert_ancell> seb128, is it getting harder with the team getting bigger?
[23:00] <seb128> but I usually know what most of the people on the chan do in the hour I join
[23:01] <seb128> yes
[23:01] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, but you seem to know everything that's going on anyway, you have some sort of implant ;)
[23:01] <Sarvatt> thanks, if anyone does please yell at RAOF or me because we know the "fix" :)
[23:01] <seb128> robert_ancell, lol
[23:02] <Amaranth> Wow some of you are here rather late
[23:02] <seb128> robert_ancell, but yeah, I'm spending time reading quite some channel and trying to engage people to know what's going onj
[23:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, I haven't the patience for that, I need clear summaries :)
[23:02] <Sarvatt> RAOF: yeah but we aren't even at A1 yet this time around so testing is kind of limited, we have exactly 0 natty bugs in the work queue :)
[23:02] <seb128> I've to admit it's suboptimal
[23:02] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, can we turn that in action items? ;-)
[23:03] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you want to suggest goals and way to achieve those and get those on the agenda for the next meeting?
[23:04] <robert_ancell> seb128, I'd like to see the output of the meetings being more publically useful, i.e. sites like OMG could use it to say "this is what's happening" (as opposed to some of the hearsay that occurs now) and new contributors could find out what is happening and how they could fit in
[23:04] <robert_ancell> seb128, ues
[23:04] <robert_ancell> I'll summarise this in email and send it to the desktop list
[23:04] <seb128> robert_ancell, well, do we need meeting for that? or is that some additional?
[23:05] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think I'll raise the ideas on email, and propose we discuss it at the sprint?  It's not optimal because it's not an open event, so we should perhaps also do something at the next UDS
[23:06] <seb128> ok
[23:06] <seb128> I'm mainly brainstorming at this point
[23:06] <seb128> but I think we need different things
[23:06] <robert_ancell> sure, me too
[23:06] <seb128> we need a common time with people around where we can discuss things
[23:06] <robert_ancell> We need to capture the list of "why are we having meetings and what do we produce from them"
[23:06] <seb128> that's the main purpose of the meetings we have now
[23:06] <seb128> but we also need a better way to communicate what's going on
[23:07] <seb128> what are the issues
[23:07] <seb128> and maybe what people could help on
[23:07] <jasoncwarner> seb128: those are the two key points, which IMO are a bit distinct.
[23:07] <seb128> right
[23:07] <seb128> that's why I suggest the meeting is fine as it is now
[23:07] <seb128> it's a common time to have people together for questions or discussions
[23:07] <jasoncwarner> something else we did was have functional team meetings, like rickspencer3 said, and then have a representative present at the other team meetings so give input
[23:07] <seb128> but we don't address the second part
[23:08] <robert_ancell> perhaps we could define what gets written into the wiki more clearly, to increase the quality of the output
[23:08] <jasoncwarner> this allowed not everyone to need to goto all themeetings, but still put the various teams together.
[23:08] <seb128> we will have an hard time for that
[23:08] <seb128> we have GNOME team people in europe, us and .au
[23:08] <jasoncwarner> yeah
[23:09] <seb128> it's hard to have me, rodrigo_, mterry and robert_ancell together
[23:09] <seb128> like I usually need to come back at 11pm when I want to chat with robert_ancell
[23:09] <seb128> or I would need to wake earlier
[23:10] <seb128> robert_ancell, well, we should first define the role of the activity reports
[23:10] <robert_ancell> yes
[23:10] <jasoncwarner> something I asked robert_ancell was if there was a way to update someones IRC status to say what they were working on. Perhaps not IRC, but some other simple mechanism (simple b/c otherwise people won't do it) that says 1. what they are working on 2. if they are stuck on something and 3. if they need help on something or from someone
[23:10] <seb128> they were rather meant as a way for management to track who is doing what during the week I think
[23:10] <seb128> not as a way to communicate what we are doing to other people
[23:11] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, rickspencer3, so, as management, are the activity reports useful?
[23:11] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, they were to me, yes
[23:11] <jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: I don't know enough to judge that, for me the burndowns are what I look at everyday.  The part I look for in activity reports are blockers/blockages/challenges.
[23:12] <rickspencer3> but I expected they were generally useful, not just for me
[23:12] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, if they were abbreviated to be easier to read, would that be a problem?
[23:12] <rickspencer3> also, I think it provided a degree of transparency to the community to see specifics
[23:12] <jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: good point
[23:12] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, that would be hypothetical, it's not really in my domain anymore, it's jasoncwarner's problem now ;)
[23:13] <rickspencer3> I also think they are good to write, as it keeps you cognizant about making progress on specific goals
[23:13] <RAOF> jasoncwarner: Some form of status.net thing would work for that; for bonus points, hook in something like hamster.
[23:13] <seb128> jasoncwarner, <jasoncwarner> something I asked robert_ancell was if there was a way to update someones IRC status to say what they were working on.
[23:13] <rickspencer3> so, generally, a good practice
[23:13] <seb128> jasoncwarner, I don't think IRC is the right medium
[23:13] <jasoncwarner> seb128: probably not
[23:14] <seb128> I was suggesting to robert_ancell to try something like etherpad last week
[23:14] <rickspencer3> status.net is exactly for that kind of task, I think
[23:14] <seb128> gobby like but on a website
[23:14]  * jasoncwarner looks up status.net
[23:14] <robert_ancell> I feel with the status reports, if you're working on maintenance then you feel compelled to list all the packages that you updated, but it's overly detailed and just fills the reports with fluff
[23:14] <JanC> status.net is teh software behind identi.ca (twitter-like)
[23:15] <jasoncwarner> is this like twitter but without all the 4square garbage? ;)
[23:15] <seb128> robert_ancell, well I do it because I use the report as a way to tell my manager that I didn't slack during the week :p
[23:15] <RAOF> There's a canonical status.net instance, isn't there?  We wouldn't want a private one, but it suggests that it wouldn't be hard to set up?
[23:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, which is the exact sort of work that's counterproductive!
[23:15] <seb128> robert_ancell, which brings back to the question of the audiance for the report
[23:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, and I propose that team members and the community are the most important audience
[23:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, etherpad might be a really good medium for this, in that we write the report duing the week, and edit it as we go
[23:17] <robert_ancell> and post the final copy to the wiki
[23:17] <RAOF> We already have weekly 1-1 meetings with Jason and a burn-down chart; does that cover all the manager-visibility required?
[23:18] <robert_ancell> seb128, in this way, if you want the high bandwidth info, you follow the pad, otherwise you just read the edited wiki version
[23:18] <jasoncwarner> RAOF: I don't need more, personally, if I do I will ask (I'm not shy). My feeling is that the weekly meetings were a digest for the community and other groups
[23:19] <jasoncwarner> like, I'll read what is going on in the other teams just to see if something will impact our team or if I have an interest/knowledge of an area where I might be able to offer insight
[23:19]  * TheMuso notes he has trouble with etherpad and orca/firefox, due to it being a live update, should be it be used collaboratively.
[23:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, well I guess it's useful in a distributed environement to have somewhat a detailed view of what people do, otherwise it's hard to see who is working or not
[23:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, not my call though, I will happily do what jasoncwarner asks us to do
[23:19] <seb128> RAOF, right, there is a canonical one
[23:19] <seb128> jasoncwarner, it seems so, I don't know enough about it to comment ;-)
[23:20] <seb128> TheMuso, you have trouble with dynamic editing?
[23:20] <JanC> seb128: rather Orca has issues with it
[23:21] <seb128> TheMuso, the notes from our team will probably mean it will be edited a few minutes a day
[23:21] <TheMuso> seb128: In a browser, because the screen reader has to refresh its knowledge of the page layout/text boxes, which usually throws one back at the top of the page.
[23:21] <seb128> I guess you could open it once a day and copy paste to a text editor to read it
[23:22] <seb128> I don't think it's going to be dynamic enough to be an issue to follow
[23:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, jasoncwarner, RAOF: ok, so seems we have an agreement that activity report should be community focussed
[23:22] <seb128> ie be useful to let people what's going on
[23:23] <robert_ancell> yes
[23:23] <TheMuso> seb128: yeah makes sense, that should be manageable.
[23:23] <seb128> jasoncwarner, can you communicate that to the team?
[23:23] <seb128> email, or next week meeting topic I guess
[23:23] <jasoncwarner> seb128: sure...figured I would summarize this in an email for the team and to solicit feedback on format.
[23:23] <jasoncwarner> seb128: probably both :)
[23:23] <robert_ancell> I'm taking that action
[23:24] <rickspencer3> status .net has a super easy API, and an rss feed
[23:24] <seb128> seems robert_ancell was going to do that
[23:24] <rickspencer3> so writing tools for it is dead simple
[23:24] <rickspencer3> it can be done quite ..
[23:24] <rickspencer3> .
[23:24] <rickspencer3> .
[23:24] <seb128> quickly?
[23:24] <rickspencer3> wait for it ..
[23:24] <seb128> ;-)
[23:24] <jasoncwarner> :)
[23:24] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:25] <seb128> ok, so next thing to sort then is where to take note
[23:25] <seb128> etherpad, status.net, ...
[23:25] <seb128> I've no strong opinion there
[23:25] <JanC> TheMuso: seems like it's possible to export html/txt versions of an etherpad document using a fixed URL, that might be useful for you
[23:25] <seb128> I guess that can be discussed in the email discussion robert_ancell will start
[23:25] <jasoncwarner> seb128: yeah
[23:26] <TheMuso> JanC: yes that would.
[23:26] <rickspencer3> dang, I wish the tubes API was easier to use
[23:26] <JanC> e.g. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/test --> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ep/pad/export/test/latest?format=txt
[23:26] <rickspencer3> it would be fun to write up a collaboration app for this
[23:26] <seb128> rickspencer3, don't reinvent gobby ;-)
[23:26] <rickspencer3> seb128, well, I think it's not gobby
[23:27] <RAOF> Unless you can make it work, of course!
[23:27] <rickspencer3> haha
[23:27] <rickspencer3> it would be fun to add features like being draw, put on images, in addition to text, but also have it be a timeline
[23:28] <RAOF> Some of that funky diffing from UDS-M would be awesome.
[23:30] <chrisccoulson> would somebody mind approving xulrunner-2.0 once it appears in the NEW queue? :)
[23:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm about to go to bed but I will do it first thing tomorrow if pitti or something else doesn't beat me to it
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - cool, thanks
[23:31] <seb128> something->somebody
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> i think i might call it a night in a bit
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> before everybody starts telling me their browser is broken ;)
[23:32] <seb128> yeah, it's late enough, I'm going to bed now
[23:32] <seb128> lol
[23:32] <seb128> 'night everybody
[23:32] <chrisccoulson> 'night!
[23:32] <RAOF> Night.\
[23:32] <jasoncwarner> seb128: night!
[23:38] <JanC> RAOF: that was cool indeed, but would need porting from Mac OS X to Ubuntu first  ;)
[23:39] <RAOF> Yeah, well.  I'm sure Rick has *plenty* of spare time to write an awesome animated timeline diff :)
[23:40] <bryceh> heh
[23:40] <JanC> maybe sabdfl can pay her to port it (SoC-like)  ;)
[23:41] <bryceh> robert_ancell, fwiw, we did daily standup meetings on the Launchpad bugs team... it sort of made sense since we were all working on the same codebase and sometimes could share notes on issues we were stuck on... but 80% of the time it felt like we were rambling on about stuff just to fill the time.  For the desktop team, I think the amount of cross-pollenation would be minimal and the likelihood of fillage high
[23:42] <RAOF> Hm, cool.  The first hail.
[23:43] <robert_ancell> bryceh, how long did the meetings go on?  This is why I was proposing the scrum format - the time is limited and it's ok so say one line if that's all that is done
[23:43] <robert_ancell> (I find IRC is an awful medium for meetings because it's very hard to tell who is active)
[23:44] <bryceh> robert_ancell, in theory they were 15 minute meetings.  In practice, we found the meetings tended to drag out for up to an hour or more a day
[23:44] <robert_ancell> bryceh, perhaps an IRC bot is needed - like the one used at UDS
[23:45] <RAOF> Or we could play with something like wave until it's turned off?
[23:47] <bryceh> fwiw these meetings were via mumble
[23:47] <bryceh> (with the inevitable first 5 min spent waiting for everyone to get headphones straightened and mikes positioned and so on *grin*)
[23:47] <robert_ancell> heh