[00:00] <fagan> spikeb: id help but im not really a usability guy, I did compile a good list of books in general for myself recently but none on usability
[00:01] <spikeb> ahh ok
[00:01] <spikeb> fagan, well thanks anyways
[01:13] <seiflotfy> guys
[01:13] <seiflotfy> http://seilo.geekyogre.com/2010/11/unity-place-people/
[01:13] <seiflotfy> got those interested
[07:36] <didrocks> good morning
[07:57] <bratsche> Good night!
[07:57] <dbarth> good morning
[07:58] <dbarth> bratsche: and good night, then ;)
[07:58] <bratsche> :)
[07:58] <bratsche> dbarth: hey, how's it going?
[07:58] <dbarth> pretty good
[07:58] <dbarth> cold and rainy here though
[07:58] <bratsche> I'm getting a new bike tomorrow!
[07:59] <bratsche> Pretty excited about that. :)
[07:59] <kamstrup> kvalo: yeah, as a singleton, that makes sense
[07:59] <dbarth> yeah, i see that
[07:59] <dbarth> sport version or more for trekking?
[07:59] <bratsche> It's for roads
[08:00] <bratsche> There's a nice lake here with a paved lane all the way around it, and it's an awesome place to go biking.
[08:00] <bratsche> I think it's about 12 miles around.
[08:05] <dbarth> bratsche: a bike and good lenses: can't wait to see the results ;) good night dude, you should go dream about the bike now ;)
[08:08] <didrocks> good night bratsche!
[08:09] <dbarth> didrocks: salut, how is it going this morning?
[08:09] <didrocks> dbarth: well, some nux and symbols file (C++ is hell :)). I'll finish triaging emails and then, get back to that
[08:10] <didrocks> dbarth: apparently, the symbols exported in the buildd aren't the same than locally, so when I ask to compare symbols at the end, it's not happy…
[08:10] <didrocks> I think that qt and libs have some work for that, will have a look
[08:11] <MacSlow> greetings all the internetz :)
[08:11] <didrocks> hey MacSlow!
[08:12] <didrocks> MacSlow: our bug about "tooltip not showing" was marked as fixed with latest release, I had to revert the status
[08:13] <MacSlow> didrocks, yeah it was fixed as it was broken before :)
[08:13] <didrocks> MacSlow: hum? not sure to understand :) it's still broken there!
[08:14] <MacSlow> didrocks, it is? Oh.
[08:14] <MacSlow> didrocks, I'll look into it again today
[08:14] <didrocks> MacSlow: yeah, I've gladly no tooltip (nor quicklist then) yet
[08:14] <didrocks> MacSlow: thanks :)
[08:15] <didrocks> MacSlow: just the arrow, no content
[08:16] <MacSlow> didrocks, pulled trunk of nux and unity yesterday and had no issues with the tooltips... that's why I'm suprised
[08:16] <MacSlow> didrocks, you're talking about the released version or trunk?
[08:16] <didrocks> MacSlow: released version
[08:16] <MacSlow> ah ok
[08:26] <didrocks> dbarth: btw, not sure if you read OMGUbuntu comments, but almost everyone is positive about the decision of no backport on maverick
[08:43] <MacSlow> hey murrayc !
[08:51] <didrocks> morning gord :)
[08:52] <didrocks> gord: MacSlow: I'm sure you are experts at C++ vs exported symbols, aren't you? :)
[08:53] <MacSlow> didrocks, "C++ vs. exported symbols" ? :)
[08:53] <MacSlow> didrocks,  what do you mean by that?
[08:54] <didrocks> MacSlow: well, building nux locally, I get a exported symbol list from the libs (stored in the .symbols file)
[08:54] <didrocks> MacSlow: when building in buildd, the list is different!
[08:54] <didrocks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59289250/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.nux_0.9.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[08:54] <didrocks> for instance
[08:55] <MacSlow> didrocks, no clue why that happens
[08:55] <gord> nux has crazy symbols problems, its insane
[08:55] <didrocks> seems to be different from arch to arch
[08:57] <gord> yeah i have no idea how to fix that, maybe wait for ted? something tells me he might of come across this before in inkscape
[08:58] <didrocks> gord: yeah, shipping a shlib meanwhile
[08:59] <murrayc> MacSlow: hi
[09:43] <njpatel> dbarth, so I think we can make the dailies work with what we have
[09:43] <njpatel> will ping you in a bit after i've played with hudson a little
[09:43] <dbarth> ok
[09:44] <njpatel> didrocks, is nux failing in ppas too, or just in archive?
[09:44] <dbarth> njpatel: the nux dailies should be ok already
[09:44] <dbarth> it's only unity that fails atm
[09:44] <didrocks> njpatel: if you took the latest packaging, it should fail
[09:44] <njpatel> thanks
[09:44] <didrocks> hum?
[09:44] <dbarth> didrocks: do you think it's your symbol files that breaks things?
[09:44] <didrocks> dbarth: you launched maybe before the latest package
[09:45] <didrocks> dbarth: right
[09:45] <dbarth> i tried a couple of times yesterday, after the release was sealed
[09:45] <didrocks> because you export different symbols on different archs
[09:45] <didrocks> so, only i386, my arch, should work in the ppa
[09:45] <dbarth> didrocks: can't that be automated?
[09:45] <dbarth> didrocks: or the whole daily concept won't fly really high
[09:45] <didrocks> dbarth: absolutely not, I don't have amd64 and others… and the goal of symbol file is to ensure stability
[09:46] <didrocks> dbarth: I use now a shlibs file
[09:46] <didrocks> dbarth: restricting the version to the particular current release
[09:46] <dbarth> so in this case the breakage is on purpose, because there was a symbol change, right?
[09:46] <didrocks> so you can break API/ABI :)
[09:46] <njpatel> didrocks, if you can let me know what symbols are different on amd64, I'll make sure to fix that with jay before next week
[09:46] <didrocks> yeah, for the buildd: as the i386 vs amd64 symbols aren't the same
[09:47] <njpatel> it's not right that the lib is exported different symbols
[09:47] <didrocks> powerpc: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59297408/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-powerpc.nux_0.9.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:47] <didrocks> armel: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59289247/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-armel.nux_0.9.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:47] <didrocks> amd64: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59294490/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.nux_0.9.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:48] <didrocks> njpatel: the end of the build as the diff compared to i386 ^
[09:49] <njpatel> hmm
[09:50] <njpatel> didrocks, I'll see what I can do
[09:50] <didrocks> njpatel: no hurry until next week release :)
[09:52] <kamstrup> njpatel: Shame on you... XQueryPointer...
[09:53] <njpatel> kamstrup, you saw the comments around that? :)
[09:53] <kamstrup> njpatel: but still.... shaaaaaame on you!
[09:53] <njpatel> kamstrup, i'm 25% along the way to making the replacement work
[09:53] <njpatel> lol
[09:53] <kamstrup> njpatel: ;-)
[09:53] <kamstrup> njpatel: you can tell that I am a father of 3?
[09:53] <dbarth> didrocks: the diff is huge!
[09:54] <kamstrup> njpatel: go to your room!
[09:54] <didrocks> dbarth: yeah, and C++ symbols aren't the best to read :/
[09:54] <dbarth> is that because of a difference in symbol mangling? how can we avoid that?
[09:54]  * njpatel retreats to his room
[09:54] <didrocks> I don't know enough of C++ symbols handling for it
[09:54] <dbarth> are there techniques used by compiz or kde apps that we should adopt?
[09:54] <didrocks> dbarth: kde apps have stable symbols, so there is a symbol file by arch
[09:55] <didrocks> you don't, so I won't upload/fail/update for every arch every week :)
[09:55] <dbarth> agateau: ping? c++ expert called on level 1 please
[09:55] <njpatel> dbarth, we just need to not export different symbols on different archs
[09:55] <dbarth> ah friday...
[09:55] <njpatel> dbarth, I'm not sure why nux is leaking that in the first place
[09:55] <didrocks> dbarth: just going to tell that :)
[09:55] <njpatel> firday?
[09:55] <dbarth> smspillaz: are you still up?
[09:55] <njpatel> friday?, even
[09:56] <didrocks> njpatel: agateau isn't working/slacking on Friday :)
[09:56] <njpatel> aah
[09:56] <didrocks> dbarth: btw, maybe interesting to follow as Lyx upstream wants to help: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/619811
[09:56] <didrocks> that can maybe help with other issues
[09:57] <dbarth> lyx is still using its own toolkit or?
[09:57] <dbarth> ah qt
[09:58] <didrocks> qt right
[09:58] <didrocks> btw, nux is a total fail on armel
[09:58] <didrocks> alignement issue, that should be fixable
[09:59] <njpatel> yeah, we need to get the arm builders for daily builds so we can see all that stuff
[09:59] <didrocks> but at least, with the shlibs, we won an amd64 nux \o/
[09:59] <didrocks> njpatel: do you think that's possible?
[09:59] <didrocks> that can be a great help
[09:59] <njpatel> didrocks, private ppas have arm builds
[09:59] <njpatel> so we just need to push there
[09:59] <didrocks> njpatel: oh right, it's because it's not virtualized that it's not by default
[10:00] <njpatel> then at least we know if it breaks
[10:00] <didrocks> yeah
[10:00] <didrocks> there was the same discussion for extra.ubuntu.com ppa
[10:00] <MacSlow> gord, njpatel: did something in nux documentation make-target change?
[10:01] <MacSlow> gord, njpatel: I can't seem to have it build anymore
[10:01] <gord> MacSlow, nope . passing --enable-documentation to configure?
[10:01] <MacSlow> gord, that's exectely what I did
[10:01] <MacSlow> and I get:
[10:02] <MacSlow> make: *** No rule to make target `doxygen-doc', needed by `all'.  Stop.
[10:02] <MacSlow> make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
[10:02] <smspillaz> dbarth: ... it's only 4pm ?
[10:02] <smspillaz> *6pm
[10:02] <smspillaz> lost track of the time there
[10:02] <smspillaz> dbarth: also, I have an ssh account on compiz.org which I run a persistent irssi session on :)
[10:02] <dbarth> smspillaz: it's a question on symbol issues we're having between nux and unity
[10:03] <smspillaz> dbarth: sure, hit me
[10:03] <smspillaz> :)
[10:03] <MacSlow> gord, wow... something removed doxygen from my system ?!
[10:03] <gord> MacSlow, i think you have gremlins in your system :)
[10:03] <dbarth> c++ is making things more difficult of course, but are there things that should be done at either nux or unity's level to avoid that
[10:04] <dbarth> smspillaz: see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59294490/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.nux_0.9.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz for example
[10:04] <dbarth> and grep for binary-arch i think
[10:06] <kvalo> kamstrup: a rather long one again, but half of it is code removal: https://code.launchpad.net/~kvalo/indicator-network/libconnman-connect-dialog/+merge/41275
[10:15] <njpatel> MacSlow, what are you looking for in Nux?
[10:15] <MacSlow> njpatel, nux::Color
[10:15] <MacSlow> but I've everything built again here
[10:15] <njpatel> MacSlow, header isn't useful?
[10:16] <MacSlow> njpatel, the hyper-linked doc is more handy to jump around
[10:16] <njpatel> not in vim! ;)
[10:16] <MacSlow> njpatel, I don't use vim like that (don't even know how)
[10:17] <didrocks> nux says "hello" to main
[10:17] <gord> you guys look things up yourself? just poke jay all day!
[10:17] <njpatel> didrocks, WOOHOO!
[10:17] <didrocks> will retry unity build (on i386 and amd64) is half an hour, time for publishing
[10:17] <njpatel> MacSlow, no, I mean I just load up headers because I'm in vim all day and it can't do anything more fancy than that
[10:18] <njpatel> actually, I take that back, it probably can do something more fancy, it's just I don't have that plugin
[10:18] <MacSlow> njpatel, I've chromium open with the nux-documeation that'll do
[10:19] <smspillaz> dbarth: waitaminute, so what exactly is your problem with symbols? is it aborting with undefined symbols at runtime?
[10:21] <njpatel> smspillaz, all it is is that on certain archs, we're exporting extra/less symbols. We just need to stabilise nux so it doesn't do that
[10:22] <smspillaz> njpatel: thats ... odd. have you got arch specific #ifdefs ?
[10:23] <njpatel> jay probably has, or hasn't noticed he has, yes
[10:23] <njpatel> nux does a lot of things it shouldn't, we need to trim it down somewhat
[10:38] <dbarth> njpatel: so this idea of limiting nux to just what we use for the moment, and making the rest a compile time option?
[10:38] <dbarth> njpatel: for tools, we can build the full version for example
[10:39] <dbarth> njpatel: i had run the idea by jay already, so if you think that can help speed things up, go for it
[10:43] <kamstrup> kvalo:  on it
[10:47] <njpatel> dbarth, yep, that's what I've been wanting to do. maybe after A1 jay and I can spend a day "sprinting" and cut away all the things we don't need
[10:47] <njpatel> dbarth, I think it'll help with the CD too
[10:47] <kvalo> kamstrup: thanks
[10:51] <dbarth> njpatel: and compile time as well ;)
[10:52] <njpatel> heh, yea
[10:52] <njpatel> dbarth, do we need ppa:unity and ppa:unity/daily?
[10:52] <njpatel> dbarth, with unity in natty, ppa:unity won't be used at all
[10:53] <njpatel> so why don't we push dailies to it?
[10:54] <didrocks> MacSlow: have you reproduced the tooltip issue?
[10:54] <njpatel> didrocks, does it still happen?
[10:54] <MacSlow> didrocks, not happening in trunk
[10:54] <didrocks> njpatel: yeah, I reopened the bug, you didn't notice?
[10:54] <MacSlow> didrocks, have not checked the release
[10:55] <MacSlow> didrocks, still have other things on my plate today
[10:55] <didrocks> hum… I clearly have the new version there
[10:55] <njpatel> didrocks, I haven't seen bug mail yet today
[10:55] <MacSlow> didrocks, you have it with trunk?
[10:55] <njpatel> didrocks, your on natty right?
[10:55] <didrocks> MacSlow: I try to keep what the release offers :)
[10:55] <didrocks> njpatel: yeah
[10:56] <kamstrup> kvalo: needs fixing
[10:56] <MacSlow> didrocks, I'm on maverick here on my desktop
[10:56] <didrocks> hum, maybe that's related
[10:56] <njpatel> yeah
[10:56] <MacSlow> didrocks, moving to natty just for testing will burn a bit too much time today
[10:56] <didrocks> MacSlow: trunk is the release
[10:56] <njpatel> didrocks, I think bamf on the whole is having trouble on natty
[10:56] <njpatel> didrocks, have the crashes stopped?
[10:57] <didrocks> MacSlow: no hurry for today, but for next release, it will be great
[10:57] <MacSlow> didrocks, ok
[10:57] <didrocks> njpatel: I didn't get one yet, but I'm restarting compiz a lot for the detection module…
[10:57] <MacSlow> njpatel, I'll stick to the ql
[10:57] <njpatel> didrocks, okay
[10:57] <njpatel> MacSlow, yes
[10:57] <didrocks> just to notice: it affects ql as well, of course
[10:57] <didrocks> I see the background color changing, which is nice and tells me it's a quicklist :)
[10:58] <njpatel> heh
[10:59]  * njpatel tries the 10th build of unity
[11:00] <didrocks> njpatel: do you want special gift and each "10th" anniversary? :)
[11:00]  * didrocks relaunch unity build in natty with new nux
[11:00] <njpatel> :)
[11:04] <kamstrup> didrocks, njpatel, MacSlow: i also still have the tooltips/ql bug with jhbuild as of 1 hour ago
[11:05] <MacSlow> kamstrup, tooltips being empty?
[11:05] <MacSlow> kamstrup, are you on natty there?
[11:05] <kamstrup> MacSlow: yep
[11:05] <kamstrup> MacSlow: nope
[11:05] <MacSlow> kamstrup, oh hm..
[11:06] <kamstrup> MacSlow: but unless it's a mesa, X, or gtk3 issue that should not be the problem since the jhbuild build stack is pretty complete
[11:07] <MacSlow> kamstrup, I would not know how the launcher tooltips could be a gtk3-related problem by any means :)
[11:08] <MacSlow> kamstrup, I've some segfaults to fight here right now... may have some more time later this afternoon, if it still prevails
[11:08] <didrocks> MWAHAHAHAHAH, works!
[11:09] <kamstrup> didrocks: ?
[11:10] <didrocks> kamstrup: the fallback mode, if unity can't load, it can ask compiz "please, can I get a shell?" like launching gnome-panel :)
[11:10] <gord> \o/
[11:10] <kamstrup> didrocks: wicked
[11:11] <didrocks> now env variable to play with it and will create the gnome classic session next week, in time for A1 :)
[11:11] <dbarth> didrocks: but can you also get a dialog box at the same time?
[11:11] <dbarth> ie, create a gtk dialog, and spawn a shell at the same time?
[11:11] <didrocks> dbarth: not yet, that's will be an external soft to launch
[11:11] <kvalo> kamstrup: thanks! I'll take a look after lunch
[11:11] <didrocks> dbarth: like a small python program
[11:12] <didrocks> dbarth: just need to do that in a generic way so that it will be upstreamed as well :)
[11:12] <didrocks> we have a nice architecture now with sam for that!
[11:13] <kamstrup> didrocks: yeah, and then slowly from there rewrite compiz in python.... bwahahahaw! ;-)
[11:13] <didrocks> kamstrup: shhhhhh :)
[11:13] <kamstrup> didrocks: uh, sorry :-)
[11:14] <didrocks> the machiavelic plan will be announced later ;) all in python!
[11:14] <MacSlow> yay... no more segfaulting
[11:14] <MacSlow> phew
[11:14] <didrocks> MacSlow: because of a fix or because of a python exception? ;)
[11:14] <MacSlow> didrocks, I don't do Python... only when forced to by a meat-grinding pain-amplifier :)
[11:15] <MacSlow> didrocks, simple fix
[11:15] <gord> can we expense a meat grinding pain amplifier?
[11:15] <MacSlow> always the simple things you think of last
[11:15] <didrocks> gord: of course, you didn't yet?  :)
[11:15] <MacSlow> gord, buy two get one free :)
[11:17] <didrocks> now that the menu is stripped in the panel, I take gnome-terminal for terminator and I ctrl + shift + E…
[11:18] <dbarth> gord: if you find a manufacturer i'll check the company policy for that kind of accessories
[11:19] <gord> maybe evil Ltd. has one in a sale
[11:21] <MacSlow> gord, export taxes are pretty high on such devilish devices
[11:28] <kklimonda> njpatel: what is Nux?
[11:28] <kklimonda> an OpenGL toolkit - is it an alternative to Mx toolkit?
[11:29] <kklimonda> didrocks: ^ :)
[11:29] <didrocks> kklimonda: Mx is using clutter, or I remember wrong?
[11:30] <kklimonda> yes
[11:30] <didrocks> kklimonda: so yeah, an alternative which doesn't use clutter :)
[11:30] <kklimonda> didrocks: am I allowed to say that it's getting ridiculous? :/
[11:30] <kklimonda> clutter, mx, gtk, nux, qt, cairo and who knows what else..
[11:31] <didrocks> well, clutter isn't a toolkit
[11:31] <kklimonda> no way people are going to learn all that or even that they are going to know what is the right library to use :/
[11:31] <didrocks> and I don't have the time to argue with that
[11:31] <kklimonda> didrocks: my point is that we are getting a lot of libraries :)
[11:31] <didrocks> kklimonda: same for applications and alternatives…
[11:32] <kklimonda> didrocks: yes - but more applications is more choice to end users and more libraries mean a headache to developers. :)
[11:33] <didrocks> kklimonda: or more choice to developers, depends on how you stand it for
[11:33] <didrocks> but anyway, I don't have the time to discuss that, I prefer acting :)
[11:39] <kvalo> kamstrup: about cancellable in connect_service(). I didn't add it because I don't see any use for that right now. I was planning to cancel the calls only when the object is destroyed.
[11:40] <njpatel> kklimonda, nux is a opengl layout engine for unity, it's not really api/abi stable
[11:40] <kamstrup> kvalo: it's in order to follow the conventions
[11:41] <njpatel> it has some widgets too, but we don't really use them
[11:41] <kamstrup> kvalo: fx. if you wanna play well with vala
[11:41] <kvalo> kamstrup: yeah, that's important. I'll add it
[11:41] <kvalo> not vala, I meant the conventions :p
[11:44] <kamstrup> kvalo: what ever floats your boat :-)
[11:47] <kvalo> kamstrup: as long as it's not vala ;)
[11:58] <didrocks> ok, same issue on the buildd: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59317003/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.unity_3.1.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:58] <didrocks> I don't have it locally
[11:59] <didrocks> kamstrup: we removed them last week because of that, you didn't see the commit?
[11:59] <didrocks> kamstrup: and as places doesn't work currently with unity, we decided to remove them
[11:59] <kamstrup> didrocks: ah, ok
[12:00] <didrocks> ok, removing them again from trunk then…
[12:00] <didrocks> and reupload
[12:00]  * kamstrup cries silent tears of sorrow because his jhbuild breaks now
[12:01] <didrocks> kamstrup: well, I think we should focus on looking what's make it fails (and weirdly why it doesn't fail locally)
[12:04] <kamstrup> didrocks: which distro is that hudson living on?
[12:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: I have totally no idea, I would say LTS
[12:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: but the natty buildd fails as well
[12:07] <didrocks> so, new unity upoad in natty…
[12:13] <sense> ivanka1: Did you know that you have to set the series of a blueprint as well as its milestone in order for it to show up on the work-items overview? Currently the work-items of the design don't show in the burn-down charts. Is this intentional? Because I would be glad if there was one place I could look for work-items.
[12:16] <kvalo> kamstrup: pushed fixes now: https://code.launchpad.net/~kvalo/indicator-network/libconnman-connect-dialog/+merge/41275
[12:24] <didrocks> am I the only one where I need to kill compiz (metaciy --replace or compiz --replace is waiting for old compiz to quit… and it doesn't do that)
[12:24] <kamstrup> kvalo: approved!
[12:24] <kamstrup> didrocks: i've seen that as well
[12:25] <didrocks> kamstrup: I think the glib mainloop branch isn't a stranger to that :)
[12:29] <kvalo> kamstrup: thanks!
[12:31] <kamstrup> kvalo: you're totally on fire these days!
[12:31] <kamstrup> kvalo: so how do you like the libconnman split? I looks like it improves the indicator code a lot
[12:32] <kvalo> kamstrup: yeah, sorry for the merge requests. I'm sure you are playing darts with my picture already ;)
[12:32] <kamstrup> kvalo: no no - it's awesome :-)
[12:33] <kvalo> kamstrup: I like it a lot. the split makes it so much easier to concentrate on the logic
[12:34] <kvalo> kamstrup: and when implementing the dbus stuff I'll just libconnman-tool, which is *so* much faster
[12:34] <kvalo> I wish I had done the split and used gdbus already last spring..
[12:35] <kamstrup> hehe you live you learn :-)
[12:35] <kvalo> s/just libconnman-tool/just use libconnman-tool/
[12:36] <kvalo> kamstrup: next time we meet I want to discuss with you how to automate testing of libconnman
[12:40] <didrocks> argh…
[12:41] <didrocks> unity symbols are different are we don't try to build the vala file…
[12:48] <sense> ivanka: Did you know that you have to set the series of a blueprint as well as its milestone in order for it to show up on the work-items overview? Currently the work-items of the design don't show in the burn-down charts. Is this intentional? Because I would be glad if there was one place I could look for work-items.
[12:49] <sense> I'm talking about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-papercuts here
[12:58] <jcastro> didrocks: I take it you noticed that nux/unity didn't build yesterday?
[12:58] <didrocks> jcastro: yeah, it's fixed now
[12:58] <didrocks> jcastro: well, for nux
[12:58] <didrocks> unity is still building
[13:16] <didrocks> nooooooooooooooooooooooo… netbook-launcher transition package, I hate you!
[13:26] <dbarth> didrocks: you guys managed to solve the symbol file issue?
[13:26] <didrocks> dbarth: the nux one? yes with shlibs
[13:26] <didrocks> dbarth: but you need to clean that upstream
[14:18] <dbarth> didrocks: so can i restart daily builds btw? ie, are the changes up in the packaging branch now? or is that updates on trunk as well?
[14:19] <didrocks> dbarth: the daily build should be fine, I have an issue on the buildd because of netbook-launcher vs dh7
[14:19] <didrocks> and I had to use dh7 because of unity beeing a compiz plugin  :/
[14:19] <dbarth> ok, i'll give it a try
[14:20] <didrocks> you will just produce an invalid netbook-launcher transitional package (the version is too low)
[14:20] <didrocks> but it does't mind for a ppa
[14:25] <lamalex> morning guys
[14:28] <dbarth> lamalex: hi Alex
[14:30] <didrocks> hey lamalex
[14:34] <sense> mpt: What do you think of bug #638659? Do we want to enable auto-scrolling and smooth scrolling by default in Firefox? Would it really help users, or only make Firefox scroll weirdly for them, and the middle mouse button to behave strangely at times?
[14:34] <lamalex> dbarth, so I'm a little unclear what the line is between what I should be doing and that TheMuso should be doing
[14:35] <dbarth> lamalex: the atk bridge
[14:35] <lamalex> dbarth, we should just use the gtk bridge and load that, is there any reason otherwise?
[14:35] <dbarth> lamalex: is what you should concentrate on next
[14:35] <lamalex> it seems silly to reimplement something..
[14:35] <dbarth> lamalex: yeah, if that works, then it's the way to go
[14:36] <dbarth> well, there is something similar for im-context that klattimer will switch to next week
[14:36] <dbarth> ie, reloading the gtk module for reusing the code
[14:36] <lamalex> dbarth, I think it is. After talking to API (who did Cally) and some other a11y folks- just loading the gtk module is the best approach- there's no reason for us to implement our own- it will basically be the same thing
[14:36] <dbarth> now, it remains to be seen how much technical dependencies that bring to the unity code base
[14:37] <dbarth> right
[14:37] <dbarth> the only reason to reimplement might be gtk graphical context dependencies or glib/dbus/at-spi integration issues
[14:37] <dbarth> but if that's the experts consensus, this is what you should try first
[14:40] <dbarth> lamalex: did you manage to finalize the dbus bridge yesterday btw?
[14:40] <dbarth> lamalex: i saw there were some weird issues with static definitions
[14:40] <lamalex> dbarth, I got it all figured out
[14:40] <dbarth> lamalex: cool ;)
[14:41] <dbarth> so jibel is unblocked i guess now
[14:41] <lamalex> dbarth, all of the infrstructure is there. I just need to sync up with njpatel about actually exporting everything
[14:41] <dbarth> ah
[14:41] <lamalex> dbarth, I'm unsure of /what/ to export
[14:41] <dbarth> what is exported at the moment? ie what goes into the registry?
[14:42] <lamalex> nothing right now, but it's as simple as implementing a single method on the classes that need introspected
[14:42] <dbarth> ok
[14:42] <dbarth> the list of indicators on the panel would be a good start
[14:42] <dbarth> and the list of launchers as well
[14:42] <dbarth> the other thing that may be needed for them is some sample code to do the "button presses" with the xtest extension
[14:43] <njpatel> lamalex, I saw your email
[14:44] <njpatel> lamalex, Right now, if you could hook up into LauncherView and PanelView method stubs that get called when the information needs to be dumped (with the GVariant bits), I think we can make it part of QA wednesday a for the devels of those pieces to add the information in
[14:45] <lamalex> njpatel, ok sounds good
[14:45] <njpatel> lamalex, because there are still things that might change so I don't want you to spend time adding support for the way panel works to see it broken in a bit, and also I want the maintainers of those parts of the code to be responsible for making sure that the info is alwasy accurate
[14:46] <njpatel> dbarth, lamalex, after that, switching to ATK would be best
[14:46] <lamalex> njpatel, yeah, i think it makes more sense for me to provide the infrastructure
[14:46] <njpatel> right
[14:46] <njpatel> lamalex, and I had a look, seems exactly how i imagined, nice work :)
[14:48] <lamalex> njpatel, thanks- there are one or two things that I'm not excactly thrilled about about, but they're artifacts from C/C++ mixing
[14:50] <njpatel> right, that's fine, it's part of the "fun" ;)
[14:55] <lamalex> :)
[14:55] <dbarth> njpatel: can you join us real quick on mumble
[15:00] <njpatel> yep
[15:02] <jcastro> njpatel: did I tell you my apport/places idea?
[15:02] <njpatel> i think so dude, a week or so ago?
[15:02] <jcastro> ok, just making sure it wasn't lost in my brain
[15:02] <njpatel> it collects your apport messages?
[15:02] <njpatel> :)
[15:02] <njpatel> no, now it's lost in mine ;)
[15:03] <jcastro> yeah new/submitted/broken, etc. or whatever
[15:03] <jcastro> as sections in the pane
[15:04] <sense> Places can only give results of a table of data right? No support for graphs and such is planned?
[15:04] <jcastro> sense: well personally I want all the bling
[15:05] <sense> It could help to have more visual elements available to developers in the future.
[15:10] <lamalex> what would the story be for a graph in places?
[15:10] <lamalex> sounds shiny, but does it match wht places is meant for? (I'm asking, I honestly don't know)
[15:11] <sense> A QA Place!
[15:11] <sense> with graphs of the progress of an application
[15:11] <sense> status*
[15:12] <sense> Or maybe it would be something Zeitgeist can use to visualise some things.
[15:12]  * lamalex searches for the places spec
[15:12] <lamalex> my understanding that places are basically data stores you search on to get to data quickly
[15:12] <lamalex> not applications unto themselves
[15:12] <lamalex> means rather than ends
[15:13] <lamalex> njpatel, my launcher and panel are both empty/invisible.. any idea?
[15:14] <lamalex> njpatel, their struts are set, but that's it
[15:15] <sense> Ah, then it probably makes not much sense to use add a lot of bling indeed. But something like Gloobus could be a nice addition to make it easier to browse your data easily.
[15:16] <lamalex> sense, previews?
[15:17] <njpatel> lamalex, hmm, weird. what graphics chipset?
[15:17] <lamalex> njpatel, intel
[15:17] <lamalex> njpatel, http://imagebin.org/123962
[15:17] <sense> lamalex: So you don't have to leave the place for every data object (file, video, etc) you want to check.
[15:17] <njpatel> lamalex, hah, awesome
[15:18] <lamalex> sense, yeah, I think that previews are valuable
[15:18] <njpatel> lamalex, is this maverick or natty
[15:18] <lamalex> njpatel, maverick
[15:18] <njpatel> lamalex, restarting compiz?
[15:18] <lamalex> from source- not packages
[15:18] <lamalex> njpatel, yah
[15:18] <lamalex> njpatel, ive been meaning to bzr bisect it
[15:18] <lamalex> but wanted to ask you/jason first
[15:19] <njpatel> no, sorry, i havent' seen this before :/
[15:19] <lamalex> i think 610 was the commit that broke it
[15:19] <njpatel> lamalex, jay would be the person to ask
[15:20] <lamalex> 610 or 611
[15:20] <lamalex> either your panel work or jay's quicklists
[15:20] <njpatel> interesting
[15:20] <njpatel> i'd obviously blame jay
[15:21] <njpatel> not without reason, either, he touched the BaseWindow stuff in nux
[15:22] <lamalex> guess it's time to revert and see when it actually broke
[15:23] <jay1> lamalex: hello
[15:23] <lamalex> jay1, I think your quicklist branch broke shit
[15:23] <lamalex> jay1, , http://imagebin.org/123962
[15:24] <njpatel> jay1, where "shit" refers to lamalex's computer ;)
[15:24] <njpatel> jay1, MacSlow has rendering issues too. so it's either you or me that broke it :D
[15:24] <MacSlow> lamalex, that's with untiy trunk I assume?!
[15:25] <jay1> lamalex: what is happening when you run unity?
[15:25]  * MacSlow drawing issues are related to the global-menu -> http://macslow.net/clips/global-menu-rendering-glitch.ogv
[15:25] <lamalex> MacSlow, yeah
[15:25] <lamalex> MacSlow, jay1, up to date nux and unity
[15:26] <MacSlow> lamalex, so you're missing the launcher and top panel (global-menu)?!
[15:26] <njpatel> lamalex, in your build directory, do ./tests/test-panel, do you get a standalone panel window?
[15:26] <jay1> lamalex: is unity crashing when you open a quicklist (right click on a launcher icon)?
[15:27] <MacSlow> lamalex, jay1: while I've issues with the panel-rendering only... the launcher draws just fine
[15:27] <lamalex> jay1, no this is what I see when I launch compiz
[15:27] <MacSlow> lamalex, you do not have accidentally enabled "auto hide launer" in the unity-plugin settings in ccsm, or have you?
[15:28] <lamalex> njpatel, I need to rebuild- ijust wiped build. I will let you know about the standalone panel in a minute
[15:28] <lamalex> MacSlow, no, not enabled in ccsm
[15:29] <lamalex> njpatel, I get a test panel
[15:30] <njpatel> okay, so it's internal to unity plugin then
[15:30] <james_w> hi hi fine people. I searched for a bug on mumble + (maverick) unity being a pain, and couldn't find one. Is it a known issue that you can't get the mumble UI up? Is there a workaround?
[15:30] <njpatel> MacSlow, can you also play with the test panel and see if you can open menus etc without rendering issues?
[15:30] <lamalex> dbarth, ?? are you still around
[15:30] <lamalex> see pm
[15:30] <MacSlow> njpatel, one sec...
[15:30] <njpatel> james_w, hey, we know of the issue, no real workaround at the moment :/
[15:31] <njpatel> james_w, make sure that the option "minimise to tray" isn't checked
[15:31] <MacSlow> njpatel, test-panel itself runs and that render fine.
[15:32] <njpatel> okay, so something in unity plugin definitely
[15:32] <MacSlow> njpatel, only the position of menus opened is not right below the test-panel, but just below the screen top
[15:32] <james_w> njpatel, if only I could get to the option now :-)
[15:33] <MacSlow> hey RAOF
[15:35] <seiflotfy> njpatel, or any1
[15:35] <seiflotfy> triying to build the libfolks doc
[15:36] <seiflotfy> any arguments i have to give in
[15:36] <seiflotfy> ?
[15:36] <MacSlow> Tag seiflotfy
[15:36] <seiflotfy> what tag
[15:37] <MacSlow> MacSlow, Tag im Sinne von "Guten Tag" :)
[15:37] <seiflotfy> ah
[15:37] <seiflotfy> servus
[15:37] <seiflotfy> :)
[15:37] <lamalex> seiflotfy, now you've gotta give them pictures
[15:37] <seiflotfy> lamalex, what i am trying to do
[15:37] <seiflotfy> but i need the docs for libfolks
[15:37] <lamalex> the telepathy avatar api is really weird
[15:37] <seiflotfy> lamalex, yes
[15:37] <seiflotfy> i am not willing to work with telepathy API tbh
[15:38] <seiflotfy> libfolks should do
[15:38] <seiflotfy> but i need to get the docs complied
[15:38] <seiflotfy> and since i am am amateur i need some1 to help me
[15:38] <seiflotfy> i see in the configure.ac the
[15:38] <seiflotfy> --enable-docs thingie
[15:39] <lamalex> seiflotfy,  yeah, that should be it
[15:39] <seiflotfy> well not working
[15:39] <lamalex> do you have valadoc?
[15:40] <seiflotfy> lamalex, thank you
[15:40] <seiflotfy> i have it now
[15:41] <seiflotfy> but sitl
[15:41] <seiflotfy> am i supposed t ogive in a path where the  docs are to be generated
[15:41] <seiflotfy> ?
[15:41] <lamalex> no, it should figure that out
[15:41] <seiflotfy> its not
[15:41] <seiflotfy> -.-
[15:46] <seiflotfy> ok this is sad
[15:46] <seiflotfy> i ask telepathy for doc for folks
[15:46] <seiflotfy> and they tell me look at the code
[15:46] <seiflotfy> :(
[15:51] <lamalex> jay1, any idea about my missing unity?
[15:51] <jay1> lamalex: do you have nux compiled with --enable-debug
[15:52] <lamalex> jay1, always
[15:52] <jay1> lamalex: to you get some log message from Nux: they look like "Log: ...
[15:53] <jay1> lamalex: I am trying to reproduce here...
[15:53] <mpt> oubiwann, hi, <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-dx-n-resizing-windows> is not yet accepted for Natty
[15:53] <lamalex> jay1, the only Log: messages I get are about my graphics stack
[15:53] <lamalex> want to see them?
[15:54] <oubiwann> mpt: hrm, I thought I approved it the other day
[15:54]  * oubiwann looks again
[15:54] <mpt> oubiwann, you did, but approving it and accepting it are not the same thing.
[15:54] <mpt> It needs to be accepted to show up in the burndown charts.
[15:54] <jay1> lamalex: no I guess it is the standard message about your gpu type
[15:54] <lamalex> yah
[15:55] <lamalex> i dont see anything really 'debuging' related
[15:55] <jay1> lamalex: you have an NVidia gpu?
[15:55] <jay1> lamalex: or something else
[15:56] <lamalex> jay1, intel
[15:56] <oubiwann> mpt: how do I accept it?
[15:56] <lamalex> jay1,
[15:56] <lamalex> jay1, https://pastebin.canonical.com/39974/
[15:57] <mpt> oubiwann, I don't know, I don't think I've ever been in a team that can accept blueprints.
[15:57] <oubiwann> mpt: no worries, I'll ask robbiew
[15:57] <mpt> thanks
[15:59] <jay1> lamalex: what if you revert unity to a previous version before my branch with the quicklist support?
[16:02] <oubiwann> mpt: okay, robbie hooked me up. "Proposed for natty" was the field that needed to be edited; by selecting "ubuntu natty" from the drop down on the next page (and saving) it got set as accepted
[16:02] <lamalex> jay1, still nothing, but I don't really trust bzr's revert. It weird me out that the actual revno doesn't go back
[16:02] <lamalex> jay1, maybe it's a nux breakage?
[16:03] <mpt> thanks oubiwann
[16:03] <jay1> lamalex: I am not getting any issue on my dell mini 9. check that you have all the correct libraries...
[16:03] <oubiwann> mpt: sure thing
[16:03] <lamalex> hmm
[16:03] <lamalex> I will try blowing away everything and starting from scratch
[16:05] <jay1> lamalex: you have Unbuntu Unity Plugin selected in ccsm, right?
[16:06] <mpt> tedg, friendly reminder, <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-dx-n-indicator-messages> has no work items yet :-)
[16:06] <mpt> tedg, or more precisely, it has linked bugs, but isn't approved/accepted
[16:07] <lamalex> jay1, yeh
[16:15] <tedg> mpt, Yeah, it just got put "at risk" for Natty.  Not sure if there's a status for that.  Should we approve it and just mark it low priority?
[16:15] <mpt> tedg, that's probably the most accurate reflection of "at risk"
[16:18] <dbarth> unity daily build works!
[16:18] <dbarth> \o/
[16:19] <njpatel> yay!
[16:19] <njpatel> the vala issue was fixed?
[16:20] <dbarth> apparently
[16:20] <dbarth> the symbol issue was vala? i thought that was C++
[16:20] <dbarth> so i'll go and add the bamfs and the dees as well now
[16:21] <njpatel> no, there is an issue with unity trunk compiling on natty as vala changed
[16:21] <dbarth> just to get a roster full on the Unity (N) tab
[16:21] <njpatel> kamstrup was looking into it (libunity)
[16:21] <dbarth> ugh
[16:21] <dbarth> so the next build will fail you mean or?
[16:21] <njpatel> yep
[16:21] <dbarth> ie, it's a recent change
[16:21] <njpatel> that's what blocked me from morning
[16:21] <njpatel> (and other things)
[16:21] <dbarth> bah, that's what daily builds are for
[16:21] <njpatel> otherwise I had allt he cmake stuff done for the "unity" build
[16:22] <njpatel> so, as soon as that's fixed, we get trunk builds
[16:22] <dbarth> what's taht?
[16:22] <dbarth> ok, anyway
[16:22] <dbarth> kamstrup being on it means it will be ok on Monday
[16:23] <njpatel> yep, monday
[16:23] <njpatel> I think I'm going to log off now :)
[16:23] <njpatel> leave some energy for some hacking on the weekend
[16:23] <njpatel> have a good weekend all :)
[16:38] <lamalex> ughhhh screw bzr
[16:38] <lamalex> git for the win
[16:39] <lamalex> i reverted, but didnt commit- and forgot then made changes
[16:39] <lamalex> how do I get out of this mire..
[16:45] <lamalex> nm
[16:47] <bratsche> heh
[16:54] <dbarth> lamalex: blasphemy! you'll copy one thousand bzr branch to absolve yourself
[16:55]  * didrocks tries to push a branch on gitorious for compiz… quite a fail on documentation…
[17:00] <didrocks> DBO: hey dude!
[17:00] <didrocks> DBO: I guess for pushing your compiz branch, smspillaz gave you some access, can you push 2 branches for me? (not sure where to share them)
[17:26] <dbarth> DBO: ?! where's Jason?!
[17:30] <didrocks> we lost Jason :)
[17:51] <DBO> dbarth, was getting food
[17:51] <DBO> wahts up?
[17:54] <DBO> didrocks, do what now?
[17:54] <didrocks> DBO: I've finally sent them to smspillaz in git-format patch
[17:54] <DBO> alrighty then
[17:56] <didrocks> yeah, no worry :)
[17:58] <ronoc> anybody in Dublin next weekend -> http://severedhead.net/event.aspx?id=8
[17:59] <ronoc> returning to visit the auld rock - might pop in to see how the imf are doing