/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/19/#kubuntu-devel.txt

apacheloggerstarcraftman: needs to be changed I suppose :D00:27
apacheloggerScottK, Riddell: why is spec review not on the meeting agenda?00:27
apacheloggeror is it hiding behind the todo list review?00:27
ScottKapachelogger: Because you didn't write it there?00:27
* apachelogger is not much of a writer00:28
starcraftmanapachelogger: aye, this weekend when I get some free time will see what can be done. Also gotta do that coop report too.00:28
apacheloggerScottK: oh well, since we only have one proper spec...00:30
ScottKapachelogger: Need to decide about translations based on the information gathered at UDS and then add appropriate items to the TODO.00:31
ScottKThere is a spec for this.00:31
ScottKhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-kubuntu-n-translations00:31
apacheloggernot linked on the UDSNatty page00:33
apacheloggeror sleepy eye syndrom is taking over again00:34
ScottKWould you please fix it.00:36
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
=== muesli_ is now known as muesli
jussigmorning all07:33
=== hrw|gone is now known as hrw
shadeslayerulysses: can you try installing krdc and see if it works with 4.5.3 and Qt 4.7?09:23
shadeslayerRiddell: can i start moving stuff from Staging to backports09:24
Riddellshadeslayer: go for it10:16
shadeslayerokies10:17
ulyssesshadeslayer: krdc installed10:51
shadeslayerulysses: does it start?10:51
shadeslayerand im moving stuff to backports PPA :)10:52
shadeslayerright now LP is going kaboom if i copy 2 packages10:52
ulyssesshadeslayer: yes10:53
shadeslayergreat10:53
shadeslayersomeday10:56
shadeslayerlaunchpad will work10:56
shadeslayersomeday....10:56
Riddellshadeslayer: timeouts when copying?10:57
shadeslayeraye10:57
shadeslayerwith just one package at a time10:58
ulyssesamarok won't start either…10:58
shadeslayerulysses: wha...10:58
shadeslayerdidnt you get a update?10:58
ulyssesthis is after update10:59
shadeslayerso it just doesnt start?10:59
ulyssesthe console output: http://pastebin.com/MQwBE0NL11:00
shadeslayerthats it? 0_o11:00
shadeslayerulysses: try : amarok -d11:01
ulyssessame output11:02
ulyssesi think i need amarok-dbg :P11:02
shadeslayermarkey: ^^11:02
shadeslayerive copied all the stuff.....11:03
shadeslayerRiddell: ^^11:03
shadeslayerbackports also has KDE PIM 4.4.711:04
Riddellshadeslayer: now you need to test it again before announcing11:08
shadeslayeroh11:09
Riddellshadeslayer: mistakes can be made in the copying11:10
shadeslayerright11:10
markeysec please11:10
markeybusy11:10
markey"amarok --debug --nofork"11:10
markey^11:10
ulysseshttp://pastebin.com/x5tWWT0K11:11
markeyuseless...11:11
markeyinstall amarok-dgb11:11
markeythen: "gdb amarok"11:11
markeythen: "run --nofork"11:12
markey...wait for crash11:12
markeythen: "thread apply all bt"11:12
markeyand pastebin it11:12
markeys/dgb/dbg11:12
ulyssesthis was it11:14
ulyssesno crash because Amarok doesn't start11:14
shadeslayerkaboom11:15
shadeslayerRiddell: any ideas on this ^^11:15
shadeslayeroh.. seems amarok tries to send signals but theyre not found11:15
Riddellshadeslayer: on what?11:16
shadeslayeramarok not starting11:17
Riddellshadeslayer: with 4.5.3 on lucid?11:17
shadeslayeryes11:17
Riddelldunno, let me test11:18
shadeslayersure11:18
shadeslayerulysses: till then try installing kubuntu-desktop again11:21
ulyssesit does nothing11:22
* shadeslayer installs kde-full to test11:24
shadeslayerthis will take a hour and half atleast :)11:36
* Riddell adds kpat and phonon-backend-gstreamer to the CD11:40
RiddellJontheEchidna: what happened to the upload of this? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk2-engines-oxygen11:53
shadeslayerlp gobbled it up :>11:56
JontheEchidnaRiddell: We really wanted this: http://gitorious.org/oxygen-gtk plus that one doesn't have a proper copying file11:58
RiddellJontheEchidna: what's the difference?12:01
RiddellJontheEchidna: copying file?12:01
JontheEchidnaRiddell: oxygen-gtk is made by the guy who coded the Qt theme, and is better than the other one12:02
JontheEchidnaand the other one lacks a COPYING.LIB file for the LGPL12:03
shadeslayerRiddell: thats the one i showed you12:03
Riddellah12:03
RiddellJontheEchidna: so you plan to package that at some point?12:03
shadeslayerthe one JontheEchidna is mentioning is the one that was running on my system12:03
JontheEchidnaRiddell: I'll try to do it later today12:04
Riddelllovely12:05
Riddellfirefox crashes with the old style when I open properties so hopefully this one will be better :)12:05
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
JontheEchidna:)12:09
JontheEchidnabbl12:13
shadeslayerRiddell: any news on the amarok thingy?12:48
Riddellshadeslayer: just ran it, works fine12:49
shadeslayerulysses: ^_^12:49
shadeslayerits just you :P12:49
Riddellshadeslayer: that was testing from backports PPA too so it's good to go as far as I'm concerned13:00
shadeslayeroooog13:00
shadeslayerooh13:00
shadeslayerwell.. i have 5 mins left of kde-full download 13:00
shadeslayeri think we should let that run ^_^13:01
Riddellyes, do13:01
Riddellnever take my word for it, always check yourself too13:01
Riddelland vice versa13:01
shadeslayer:)13:02
ScottKRiddell: ogra just re-uploaded the no-neon SRU for Qt.  Given runtime detection is broken (and apparently non-trivial to fix), I think I have a hard time arguing with this.  He did promise to put a neon version in a public PPA somewhere.13:13
ScottKrbelem: ^^^13:13
Riddellyeah, seems we'll lose on that one 13:14
Riddellhas the runtime detection issue been reported upstream?13:14
ScottKThiago's been active on the bug, so he's aware, but I don't know if there's a formal bug report.13:15
jussiScottK: do happen to have an SD image for the efika/pegatron you could share?  Im struggling to get something that works :/ its frustrating.13:15
ScottKjussi: No.  Mine are still running the Karmic kernel they came with.13:16
jussiScottK: that would still be better than  the jaunty I have... :/13:16
ScottKjussi: I suspect at least part of your problem is that what you have isn't exactly the same as Efika.13:16
jussiScottK: perhaps. 13:17
ScottKWhat I have is the same as what's on their web site.13:17
shadeslayerRiddell: everything fine at my end :)13:29
ulyssesshadeslayer: :(13:31
shadeslayerulysses: possibly markey can help13:31
shadeslayerbut no idea why it doesnt start....13:31
shadeslayertry removing the amarok config file from .kde/share/config13:32
shadeslayerthats all i can think of13:32
ulyssesI removed ~/.kde/share/apps/amarok too, now it starts13:35
ulyssesIt works now fine.13:36
ulyssesnow back to hupnp, I have a lot of things to fix:P13:37
shadeslayer:P13:40
ScottKRiddell: qmake is kicking my behind.  I got the proper CXXFLAG to pass to work around the GCC issue, but it looks to me like QMAKE_CXXFLAGS is getting stomped on during the build as the added flag is there and then goes away.13:53
ScottKRiddell: It happens right about the same time "QMAKE_CXXFLAGS *= -mfpu=neon" gets referenced in src/corelib/corelib.pro13:53
ScottKDoes anyone know what the difference between += and *= is?13:54
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | Lots to do https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | SRUs http://goo.gl/iDJ6 | Merges! https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/NattyMerges | Meeting today 16:00UTC
markeyqmake rocks, doesn't it?13:55
markeyit rocks so much, I want to strangle it13:56
RiddellScottK: I don't even know how to find a reference for the qmake language to answer that13:56
ScottKRiddell: I hunted through the online docs and couldn't find anything.13:56
Riddelllet's ask in #kde-devel13:57
RiddellScottK: what is the right flat?13:58
Riddellflag13:58
ScottK-fno-strict-volatile-bitfields13:59
ScottKRiddell: In my patch, I added it in mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf to QMAKE_CFLAGS and QMAKE_CXXFLAGS and it appears in the build log and then vanishes.14:01
ScottKIn the mean time, I tried changing that to += and restarted the build to see what happens.14:02
ScottKI have to start over, so it'll be a bit before I know if it matters.14:02
=== hunger_ is now known as hunger
ulyssesapachelogger: how can I resolve the copyright issue? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=869314:03
Riddellulysses: grep the source for copyright statements and put those into debian/copyright14:05
Riddellsteveire: what's the state of Kontact Mobile?  Does it run on normal linux distros?  should we be packaging it for kubuntu mobile?14:06
ulyssesRiddell: something like? http://pastebin.com/yFVqj0yq14:07
steveireRiddell: We develop it on normal linux distros. It is desinged for touch interfaces though, not a mouse14:07
Riddellulysses: that looks good14:07
Riddellsteveire: where are the sources?14:08
steveireThere is work going on right now in #kde-mobile towards getting it on meego14:08
steveireRiddell: kdepim/mobile14:08
steveirekdepim has to be compiled with DCMAKE_MOBILE_UI or something.14:08
steveirePossibly kdepimlibs too14:09
Riddellsteveire: so when kdepim 4.6 comes out it'll be included in there?14:09
steveireThere are debian packages in branches/work/komo/debian14:09
steveireProbably not built by default in the kdepim tarball.14:10
steveireI guess the sources will contain it though, yes14:10
Riddellsteveire: but we could enable it then if we wanted to include it with kubuntu mobile?  (along with large warnings about tech preview as we do for all kubuntu mobile bits)14:10
steveireYou could, I think, yes14:10
steveireLet me know if you do that and I'll try it out.14:11
Riddellsteveire: is kdepim getting tagged for KDE SC 4.6 beta 2? (i.e. the tagging that was ment to happen yesterday)14:11
steveireWe are aiming to release with 4.6, yes.14:14
steveireIf that didn't happen then I don't know. I'll ask winter.14:14
Riddellwell it didn't happen for all of KDE SC14:14
steveireOh, I see.14:15
Riddellbut presumably if a release manager appears then kdepim will be included in that14:15
steveireI think so, yes.14:15
steveireI'm not sure if anything about that has been communicated to the release team.14:16
steveireI'll try to reach winterz and see.14:16
steveireRiddell: Is there any specific target HW or hardware form factors for kubuntu mobile?14:17
Riddellsteveire: not really, it's been running on N900s but mostly it's a base project that someone would need to complete for a given handset14:17
Riddellbut aye, N900 type devices14:18
steveireOk, so they're touch kinds of things anyway.14:19
Riddellyes14:19
ulyssesRiddell: okay, then two TODOs remained, the get-orig-source target and the splitting of the package to development/library/binary packages14:20
steveire_Riddell: [15:35:59] <stephen_laptop> winter: Is kdepim going to be part of the 4.6 beta 2 tagging?14:42
steveire_[15:38:55] <winter> sure.  it should be part of the 4.6 beta1 tagging too14:42
steveire_[15:39:03] <winter> stephen_laptop: ^14:42
Riddellsteveire_: mm yes I ment beta 114:51
* Riddell hugs agateau for fixing Umbrello15:05
agateauRiddell: such a big fix :)15:22
ScottKagateau: Do you have any Qt updates this week?  I'm preparing an upload today.15:29
agateauScottK: no15:30
ScottKOK.  Thanks.15:30
ScottKagateau: How's upstreaming going?15:30
agateauScottK: not bad, got a first review on irc (by someone outside Nokia)15:30
ScottKCool.15:30
agateauScottK: will update the merge request on monday15:30
agateaueverybody was busy at meego conf, so not much got done from Nokia side :)15:31
ScottKRight.15:31
apacheloggerintersting15:52
apacheloggerI have no sound on a dvd15:52
apacheloggerstupid phonon15:52
apacheloggerRiddell: can you confirm that dvd playback in dragon does not spit out any audio with phonon-gst?15:53
Riddellapachelogger: well I can't get it past the menu, but there's no audio on the menu when I've tried15:55
apacheloggerok15:55
apacheloggerworks in totem15:56
apacheloggerso either phonon is messing up or dragonplayer15:56
apacheloggeron a slighlty more positive note15:59
apacheloggerI can watch a dvd in a qgraphisscene ^^15:59
apacheloggerhttp://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/test.ogv16:00
Riddellsteveire_: what is System Settings -> KDE Resources?  and how does it relate to Akonadi and Kontact?16:10
steveire_That's the old KResources way to access calendars and contacts, replaced by akonadi16:11
steveire_It shouldn't be shown by default in system settings.16:12
steveire_In theory there's backwards compatibility guarantees saying we can't just rm it16:12
apacheloggerRiddell: arent we having a meeting?16:14
agateauwas about to ask16:14
Riddellah yes16:17
Riddellgood point16:17
Riddelljust to clash with the release team meeting too16:18
shadeslayeroh16:18
shadeslayerwere late arent we16:18
shadeslayerwhere is the meeting?16:18
shadeslayerhere or #ubuntu-meeting? 16:18
ScottKNot in #ubuntu-meeting16:18
apacheloggerlets just trash the release team meeting16:18
apacheloggermuhahahaha16:19
shadeslayerhehe16:19
Riddellcouncil ping, neversfelde, apachelogger, JontheEchidna, ScottK 16:19
shadeslayerapachelogger: lets install rekonq on their machines and see them suffer16:19
ScottKHere.16:19
apacheloggerahoy ahoy16:19
neversfeldehere16:19
Riddellanyone here for membership?16:20
neversfeldejust arrive at home, I need 5 min16:20
bulldog98Riddell: I’d ask, but I have to hurry16:20
Riddellbulldog98: next time then?16:21
apacheloggerno point in hurrying things through anyway16:22
RiddellScottK wanted to have a review of specs and todo items16:22
RiddellScottK: able to get us started?16:22
ScottKYep16:22
ScottKapachelogger: Where was that page?16:22
ScottKSorry, didn't realize I'd be doing two meetings at once16:23
apacheloggerhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSNatty16:23
steveire_Riddell: I may apply for membership soon16:23
apacheloggerhowever as we noticed yesterday that page does not link to all specs16:23
steveire_How long does that take :)16:23
apacheloggerand we do not have that many formal specs16:23
ScottKI think the only spec that needs some serious discussion is the one about translations.16:24
apacheloggersteveire_: if the membership is obviously justified it will be around 5 to 10 minutes of grilling so that the council has some fun16:24
steveire_But I need to make a better wiki page.16:24
ScottKThe issues surrounding that one are not just technical, they also have social implications for the community and our relationship with upstream.16:24
ScottKWe had a discussion with the LP/translations people at UDS.16:25
ScottKI think the general consensus is that things have gotten better, but there are still issues.16:25
ScottKThe main reason for rosetta is to strip per-package translations and put them into per language language packs.16:26
ScottKSince for KDE SC we get them that way already, it's not relevant.16:26
ScottKAs it is, it seems that the way KDE ships translations and the way Rosetta handles them are not well suited to each other and the integration will always be fragile and take up developer time to maintian.16:27
ScottKRosetta offers the ability to continue to improve translations.16:27
ScottKThis is not an unmitigated good, since most of the people working on translations in Rosetta are not KDE translators and we have had cases of translations being "improved" is a way that is wrong for KDE.16:28
ScottKAlso, now that we have authority from the tech board to ship KDE point releases in -updates we'll be able to ship updated KDE translations post-release too.16:29
ScottKI have asked about being able to lock existing translations for certain packages in Rosetta so that only missing translations could be added.16:29
ScottKThis would solve some of the problems and the translations/Rosetta people agree this is a valid request, but not a priority for them to implement.16:30
ScottKGiven all this, we need to decide if we want to keep on doing things the way we have or try shipping KDE translations directly for a cycle and see how it goes.16:31
ScottKWe seem to have good experience with this from PPA users.16:31
ScottKI think that summarizes it.16:31
ScottKDoes anyone else have any relevant points (I have a preference on this, but I'm trying to be balanced)16:32
neversfeldeso it is not a big problem to switch back to rosetta, after we tried it without?16:32
* ScottK looks at apachelogger in particular.16:32
ScottKneversfelde: I think we are ~stuck for one cycle, but not for Natty +1.16:32
neversfeldek16:32
ScottKOf course it depends on when.16:32
apacheloggerI'm all in favor of using kde-l10n-* for quality reasons16:32
markeyRiddell: 16:32
markeysome good news: Phonon-VLC from Git master is rock solid16:32
apacheloggerThere are however concerns.16:33
markeyfrom Git Master16:33
markeyused it for two weeks, not a  single crash (!)16:33
Riddellmarkey: sorry we're in a meeting just now16:33
markeyconsider making it the default backend :)16:33
markeyok ok16:33
apacheloggerLike doing updates becomes incredibly more involving16:33
ScottKapachelogger: How so?16:33
Riddellshipping kde-l10n-xx directly would mean splitting out documentation, working out how to get kde-l10n-xx not stripped, and coding on the language pack generator to make the language packs depend on the correct kde-l10n-xx16:34
apacheloggerWhile with launchpad featured translations it is (somewhat) simple, as the translators just needs to change the string in launchpad and pitti needs to roll new language packs.16:34
apacheloggerIf same was to be done in a kde-l10n setup, someone would have to get the source, unpack it, find the relevant file, change the file, write a changelog entry, create a new source, test the source, upload the source, get it through SRU16:34
Riddellbut the most imortant thing is I don't thik it would help with the occationally fragile nature of the translations setup since we would still need to keep that for all the other KDE apps and for .desktop files16:34
apacheloggerso, for us this would mean more work (though of course one can argue that this does not happen that often)16:35
apacheloggersecondly16:35
ScottKI think the major benefit of switching is social.16:35
ScottKWe are insulated from users finding translations worse than what upstream provides.16:35
apacheloggerHaving a half-kde and half-rosetta setup does not improve the general fragility, as jr already pointed out.16:35
Riddellalso tangentally relevant is upstream translations have been broken for a cycle and we've had to fix them, they've been shipping the wrong kde pim translations, so it's not like we're the only one to have a record of being problematic with translations16:35
ScottKAlthough this is rarer than it once was, it's a flash point for people.16:35
apacheloggerIt would still mean that we need to maintain the rosetta stuff.16:35
ScottKYes, but I think the work to use KDE translations for KDE SC is a one time effort.16:36
apachelogger(To that extent I would also mention that we even would have to maintain the patches if we only used upstream translations for everything KDE, because desktop files of non-KDE apps would still have their translations in the lang-packs...)16:36
apacheloggerScottK: it is, still someone would have to do it ;)16:37
ScottKapachelogger: That's why shadeslayer is supposed to find more minions, so you have time for complex high level architectural work like this that befits your expertise.16:38
RiddellI'd also like to know what languages have been translated in rosetta for kdelibs/base that havn't been translated upstream 16:38
apacheloggerRiddell: we also had architectural break on the other end of rosetta (export+langpack building), so having less intermediate points where things can break is a good thing16:38
apacheloggershadeslayer: you are delaying important things16:38
shadeslayerwha...16:39
ScottKRiddell: One of the problems we have that relates to this is that upstream doesn't ship translations that are less than some percentage complete.16:39
ScottKSo we may have many languages that are partially and differently translated in both systems.16:39
Riddellalso worth noting is that rosetta want to do upstream important directory at some point, which means the fragile bit becomes their problem rather than ours16:40
apacheloggerit is being talked about for like 2 years now16:40
ScottKRiddell: I think at that point and when they have the ability to lock certain templates from changes this decision should be revisted.16:40
Riddellapachelogger: it has been talked about for like 6 years now, but it might actually happen next year16:40
ScottKI don't think we should let what they might do in the future affect what we decide now.16:40
apacheloggerRiddell: oh, yeah, I mean with some sort of plan that makes sense ;)16:41
* apachelogger agrees with ScottK16:41
Riddellas a plus point for ScottK's proposal (which seems to have gone entirely off the topic of spec/todo review) it might mean launchpad not bombarding us with e-mails on every upload16:41
ScottK+100016:42
apacheloggerif we decided to use kde-l10n and at some point in the future rosetta grew a sensible thing to use for core kde switching would be very trivial16:42
ScottK(this is one of the specs)16:42
ScottKJontheEchidna: Around?16:42
apachelogger(since the architecture for rosetta, as mentioned earlier, needs to remain existing anyway)16:42
ScottKWe will also need to deal with strings we add to KDE SC.  I think it's been discussed to patch in one template in kde4libs for that.  This would still be translated in Rosetta as well.16:43
RiddellScottK: are you wanting us to vote on this?16:44
ScottKRiddell: I am.16:45
RiddellScottK: go ahead and make a proposal to vote on then16:45
ScottKI will help implement it if we decide.16:45
ScottKOK16:45
ScottKProposal: Switch translations for KDE SC for one cycle (as discussed) to see if it produces a better result and reassess at the next UDS.16:46
Riddellhow would we review the result?16:46
ScottKI think if it presents problems and causes a lot of work, we'll know.16:47
ScottKFor me, if it gave the users the same experience and I didn't mail bombed by Rosetta, I'd call it a win.16:47
Riddelldo we know what problems we have in maverick?  the only one I know of the lithuanian plurals one16:48
ScottKI think it's difficult to define up front what the exact criteria will be.16:48
=== hrw is now known as hrw|gone
ScottKI don't know of others.16:48
ScottKIn lucid I ended up doing a post RC kdepim upload to un "fix" a translation in kdepim.16:48
ScottKI think most of the benefits will be social with upstream.16:49
dpmI'm not part of the Kubuntu community as a user, and I think you guys should decide, but whichever decision you take, please ask translators on the mailing list16:49
ScottKdpm: Do you think I captured the points fairly?16:49
RiddellI'm -1 for not reducing the fiddly .pot and .desktop .pot generation and for apparantly not having a current problem to fix and not having an overview of what languages we'd lose because they're in rosetta and not upstream16:50
* apachelogger notes that langauges being in rosetta and not upstream is a problem right there16:51
ScottKI'm +1 for not having to worry about translators in Rosetta changing existing translations.16:52
dpmScottK, yes, although I believe it is quite difficult to review upstream social impact, "before and after". We haven't had complaints on translations for a while, afaik, and I don't think we'd get them after a potential switch, either, unless things would go horribly wrong16:52
ScottKdpm: I agree it's not an easy thing to know.16:52
Riddellapachelogger: it is but you can't blame rosetta for offering a nicer UI than upstream (of course some people think the opposite is true)16:52
ScottK(if we had template locking now, I wouldn't have brought this up)16:53
* ScottK looks at apachelogger, neversfelde, and JontheEchidna to vote.16:53
apacheloggerRiddell: no, I blame rosetta for not offering a nicer solution than not upstreaming at all16:53
dpmso that's one of my concerns, although the biggest one is pretty please, talk to translators and include them in the conversations16:53
dpmI can help with that if you guys want16:53
apacheloggerhmm16:54
dpmand just to bring some more info in the discussion, here's the status of LP Translations development right now, for anyone interested:16:55
dpmhttps://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg05638.html16:55
apachelogger+(1/2) since template locking is important, yet not in sight, since upstreaming is important, yet not in sight, since there have been problems ever since rosetta was introduced ... however I am not entirely sure the effort would be worth the time (fortunately enough, unlike rosetta support it does not require constant maintenance)16:57
apacheloggeralso this vote is bound to having translators made well aware of why the decision was made and understand and agree with the reasoning16:58
JontheEchidnao/16:58
neversfeldeI am not sure how to vote, I think I first should have a deeper understanding about this. take it as a 0. If we are 2 : 2 we'll have to wait until I can decide :)16:58
JontheEchidnasorry about lateness16:58
ScottKdpm: I don't see the template locking on that roadmap.16:59
apachelogger(i.e. if they disagree our own arguments probably have not been sound)16:59
RiddellScottK: can you chase up votes from the other council members17:00
ScottKRiddell:  I can.17:00
Riddellthen we'll need to work out what happens if it's obviously split17:00
ScottKYes.17:01
Riddellwe have it written down somewhere, from some past UDS17:01
ScottKapachelogger: Can you take an action to pursue talking with Rosetta and KDE translators?17:01
ScottKI'd say we should move on.17:01
apacheloggercando17:01
apacheloggersuppose17:01
apacheloggershadeslayer: ^ work for you17:01
ScottKRiddell: Do you know if the work described in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-dx-n-qt-support is upstreamable?17:02
ScottKThat's my primary concern with that one.17:02
RiddellScottK: it is upstream17:03
Riddellthey're the ones who discussed it and will do it17:03
Riddellwith help from Duncan and his team17:03
ScottKRiddell: They being Nokia?17:03
Riddellyes17:03
ScottKSounds good then.17:03
dpmScottK, it isn't there, and it is not on sight. To be honest, I believe the problems with modifying translations is no longer as important as it was before. Some years ago most of the translations teams were Open, nowadays there is a policy that they should be moderated. They act as reviewer teams and should not modify upstream strings, and this has improved a lot, apart from the fact that several teams work both upstream and downstream - but granted, 17:03
dpmyou'll still get some unwanted changes, to be fair. In short, my opinion is that template locking is no longer as relevant as it was before.17:03
Riddellso hopefully we'll have nice touch support in Qt 4.817:03
dpmbut anyway, just replied for the sake of completeness, please move on :)17:04
ScottKDoes anyone else have spec questions?17:05
apacheloggerwhy did fluffy not get spec'd? :P17:05
ScottKapachelogger: You didn't assign shadeslayer to write the spec.17:05
apacheloggershadeslayer: ^ yet more work for you17:05
ScottKWhat was the conclusion on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-kubuntu-n-ubuntu-one ?17:05
* ScottK missed that one17:05
RiddellI think they agreed to have a semi-sane policy for libraries and third party translators17:06
Riddellbut we'll have to see if they follow it17:06
ScottKIs anyone volunteered to work on the project?17:06
RiddellI'm being pinged by ubuntu one as we chat about how ubuntu sso should be modularied to allow kde/gnome support in it17:06
apacheloggeralso stuff of ubuntone-kde is salvageable if only someone were to step up and do magic17:06
Riddellit'll need a volunteer to get the ubuntu one kde bits complete and nobody has so far volunteered17:07
ScottKI think that one should just stay as it is (and not get approved) until there is some movement on actually doing it.17:07
ScottKRiddell: Did you find a time to sit down with padams yet about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-kolab ?17:08
Riddellyes17:08
Riddellyes to the above not getting approved17:08
ScottKHow'd that go?17:08
ScottKAh.17:08
Riddellno I've not had a meeting with padams, I'll probably ping him shortly to see if he's going to buy me more pizza17:08
apacheloggerlol17:09
ScottKOK.  I think that one we should hold off a bit on until we see what upstream support we have.17:09
ScottKAFAIK, all the othes are fine.17:10
Riddellthey'll have their two day testing suite running but I'm not sure what the output of that is or what we do if it shows up problems17:10
Riddellany thoughts on the big Todo list? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo17:11
apacheloggerneeds more assignments17:12
Riddellyes but assignments can act as blockers so don't go assiging unless you're sure they'll follow through17:13
ScottKLooks fine to me.17:14
neversfeldeKDE stable release updates policy is done isn't it?17:14
ScottKyes17:14
ScottKJust need JontheEchidna to upload 4.4.5 to lucid-proposed.17:14
Riddellneversfelde: no but it's not needed now we have "(re-)propose to tech board to include updates in -updates, QA'd in PPA first"17:14
neversfeldeok17:15
Riddellgroovy, shall we move on17:17
Riddellor do we need to vote on the specs and todo list?17:17
ScottKI think we should have a vote.17:17
Riddell[VOTE] agree to follow the specs and todo list for Natty https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSNatty17:17
RiddellI'm +117:18
JontheEchidna+117:18
ScottKProposal: Approve the specs on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSNatty except for Ubuntu One an Kolab.17:18
neversfelde+q17:18
neversfelde117:18
RiddellI'm +1 on that too17:18
* ScottK shouldn't hit enter when scrolled back17:18
ScottK+1 except not Ubuntu One and Kolab.17:18
ScottKAnd translations is pending the other vote17:19
JontheEchidna+117:20
Riddellapachelogger: still awake?17:20
neversfelde+117:20
apachelogger+117:20
Riddelllovely17:20
Riddellthe only other agenda item was I put "partitionmanager in Live CD" down since it was proposed on the mailing list17:20
Riddellseems a reasonable idea as long as a) we have space and b) it has had lots of testing17:21
Riddellwe don't currently have space but maybe that'll change17:21
Riddellanyone tried it?17:21
neversfeldeyes, never had a problem17:22
JontheEchidnaquite a handy tool17:22
JontheEchidnaas long as we have the space I'm +117:22
neversfeldeI used it just a few minutes ago17:22
neversfeldeyes, if we have space +117:22
Riddellanyone want to file a MIR and add to the seed?17:22
Riddellas long as it's known it might come off if we need the space17:23
Riddell(along with kpat which I also added today)17:23
RiddellI can do it if no immediate volunteers17:24
Riddellany other business?17:24
Riddellthen meeting closed17:24
Riddellthanks all17:24
RiddellScottK: get those votes and e-mail the mailing list, I'll chase up our voting rules17:24
neversfeldeI take the MIR for partitionmanager17:25
Riddellneversfelde: it's yours!17:26
ScottKI have another question related to packaging/specs.17:29
ScottK(sorry, too many meetings_17:30
ScottKWe have not traditionally shipped a backup too.17:30
ScottKtoo/tool17:30
ScottKI recently (for maverick) packaged kbackup and I was wondering if that was something we ought to consider including?17:30
apacheloggerI wonder why gst's videowidget eats my mouse at some point17:32
ScottKRiddell, JontheEchidna, neversfelde, apachelogger, others: Thoughts on a backup tool?17:33
apacheloggerif it is easy to use and working and if we had space17:33
apachelogger...17:33
neversfeldeScottK: I never tested a tool, which I would rely on17:33
neversfeldebackupmanager :)17:34
JontheEchidnawhat apachelogger said17:34
ScottKneversfelde: You are more technical than our target user base.17:34
neversfeldeyes of course17:34
ScottKIt seems reasonably easy and functional17:34
JontheEchidna!info kbackup17:34
ubottukbackup (source: kbackup): Easy to use backup program. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7-1 (maverick), package size 525 kB, installed size 1168 kB17:34
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: ^well, there it is. easy to use ;-)'17:34
ScottKPerhaps people could give it a try and see what they think.17:35
ScottKUpstream is reasonably responsive on questions.17:35
neversfeldeI tested lucky backup a few month ago, it was not very reliable17:35
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: :P17:35
* apachelogger managed to get hover detection to work with dvdmenus in phonon-gst too17:38
neversfeldeScottK: sorry, I missed that you were talking about kbackup, thought that this was a general question17:40
neversfeldewill have a look at it17:40
ScottKneversfelde: No problem.17:40
ScottKAnything else for the meeting?17:40
ScottKAnyone on tap for membership?17:41
ScottKRiddell: ENDMEETING?17:44
neversfelde[18:24:43] <Riddell> then meeting closed17:44
neversfelde:)17:44
ScottKOh.17:46
ScottKright.17:46
_Groo_hi/2 all18:12
_Groo_is there a ppa for daily/weekly kde 4.6 builds for maverick?18:12
yofel_Groo_: Project Neon is working on daily builds, but we're not finished yet18:25
_Groo_yofel: k yofel tks :)18:28
yofel_Groo_: visit us in #project-neon if you have questions, so far we have this: https://launchpad.net/~neon/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=maverick18:28
_Groo_yofel: can i use it to replace my default kde packages? or it runs in paralel like amarok neon used to?18:31
yofelit's installed in /opt/project-neon you can have it installed at the same time, a warning: the current python-sip upload breaks system pykde in maverick, so you shouldn't use it right now18:32
ulyssesgood, now Choqok crashes18:36
ScottKfabo: If you have a moment ... Qt build system is currently not being very friendly with me.  I need to add -fno-strict-volatile-bitfields to CXXFLAGS on armel (to work through a gcc bug we've just acquired from Linaro).  I did it in mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf and it initially works, but somehow dissapears partway through the build.18:52
ScottKI was wondering if you might have a suggestion on how I should proceed?18:53
dantti_workapachelogger: around?19:04
apacheloggersorta20:04
apacheloggerdantti: 20:05
=== makl is now known as ximion
=== ximion is now known as makl
CIA-42[muon] jmthomas * 1198846 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/installer/ApplicationModel/ (6 files) In-extender progress reporting for installation/removal of applications.23:47

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!