| cjwatson | the thing is that the eeebuntu people didn't particularly talk to us about their jaunty fork | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| cjwatson | so it's unlikely to upgrade very cleanly | 00:02 |
| cjwatson | if you do an install as I suggested (mount /home, make sure the format checkbox is cleared, but format /) then it'll just overwrite all the system stuff | 00:02 |
| cjwatson | i.e. fresh install but preserving user data in /home | 00:02 |
| cjwatson | won't preserve /etc or anything else, of course | 00:03 |
| cjwatson | when I did it, I took a full system backup first | 00:03 |
| cjwatson | that way it was cheap to try the install and I knew I could roll the entire thing back if I needed to | 00:03 |
| MHJessen | It's full system backup that would be the problem. I don't have access to external storage due to homelessness. | 00:06 |
| MHJessen | I think I could probably get away with using Synaptics to create a history script that would reinstall the packages I have in play but it's what the versions would be that I'm not sure about. | 00:07 |
| MHJessen | Since the Synaptic solution would be from a Jaunty system what would happen when I tried to bulk install all the packages on a 10.10 system? | 00:08 |
| cjwatson | the eeebuntu packages just wouldn't be available any more | 00:10 |
| cjwatson | I don't know whether synaptic records package+version or just package name | 00:10 |
| cjwatson | if it's the latter then you're ok, it'll do the best it can | 00:10 |
| cjwatson | if it's the former, good question, no idea | 00:10 |
| cjwatson | have a look at the file it generates | 00:11 |
| MHJessen | I think that's my next step. I've been really happy with eeebuntu, but the writing is on the wall that I need to do something because everything is taking longer and longer to trickle back to Jaunty. Thanks for the info! :) | 00:16 |
| cjwatson | jaunty's end-of-life now | 00:16 |
| cjwatson | I doubt anything more will trickle back to it ever | 00:16 |
| MHJessen | That's too bad but I understand the need to keep moving forward. I really noticed it with Firefox. I've been waiting a couple weeks now for 3.6.12 to be available and I'm not sure it ever will. At any rate I have to run. Thanks again! | 00:18 |
| cjwatson | yeah, I think you can assume it won't now, sorry | 00:19 |
| cjwatson | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2010-September/000137.html | 00:20 |
| cjwatson | "Ubuntu 9.04 reaches end-of-life on October 23, 2010" | 00:20 |
| MHJessen | Ouch! Well that does it. Thanks! Bye! | 00:25 |
| === robbiew1 is now known as robbiew | ||
| twb | 10.04 d-i defaults to gpt for brand new 2TB disks | 08:47 |
| twb | This is only going to run 10.04 -- is there any reason I shouldn't continue using msdos partition type? | 08:47 |
| cjwatson | twb: I suspect our comparison is actually against decimal 2TB, which is slightly less than 2TiB | 10:44 |
| cjwatson | which is the actual technical limit | 10:44 |
| cjwatson | twb: you can use either, if it's actually no more than 2TiB. gpt's technically a superior format, but you may have other reasons. | 10:45 |
| twb | technically superior, but more confusing/complicated | 10:45 |
| twb | AFAICT (I've been reading up on it), the practical benefits are minimal | 10:46 |
| cjwatson | certainly, for anything over 2TiB, you must use gpt if you want to be able to address the whole disk | 10:48 |
| cjwatson | gpt is actually simpler | 10:48 |
| cjwatson | if you disregard the protective mbr bit, which is basically for compatibility | 10:48 |
| cjwatson | it doesn't have the whole primary vs. logical partition nonsense, which vastly complicates things | 10:48 |
| cjwatson | it's just a simple linear array of partitions | 10:48 |
| twb | Grante; but I'm using LVM so I only have two partitions per disk | 10:48 |
| cjwatson | so it probably doesn't matter to you | 10:49 |
| twb | If it meant I got "optimal" block alignment for free from partman, that might be a practical win | 10:49 |
| cjwatson | you get that anyway | 10:49 |
| cjwatson | oh, gpt has more robust boot loader storage methods, that's the other major difference | 10:50 |
| cjwatson | we don't have to use the boot track hack any more | 10:50 |
| twb | For me, the bootloader lives in the partition itself :-) | 10:50 |
| twb | I think the other thing that confuses me is that all GPT documentation assumes, to a greater or lesser extent, that I'm running either an Itanium or a macbook | 10:51 |
| cjwatson | mm, just historical - that'll stop as the world moves to >2TiB drives | 11:15 |
| twb | Nod | 11:25 |
| * ev discovers bzr lp-propose-merge | 13:26 | |
| soren | ooooh! | 13:32 |
| soren | ev: Awesome. Thanks for the hint! | 13:33 |
| superm1 | charlie-tca, you realize you closed your own bug with bug 646027 and the triaging scripts? | 15:21 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 646027 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Keyboard can not be changed in Ubiquity (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646027 | 15:21 |
| charlie-tca | closed another bug? | 15:28 |
| charlie-tca | oh, no | 15:29 |
| charlie-tca | I did not realize I was the reporter. The bug is invalid, though, now | 15:29 |
| superm1 | i just thought it was a little funny :) | 15:29 |
| charlie-tca | It is, when I see the reporter name | 15:30 |
| twb | I once solved a bug by googling, and finding a pastebin I had pasted six years prior | 15:30 |
| charlie-tca | I don't always look at the name, but I did try to reproduce it | 15:30 |
| dlyneswork | Is there a pkgsel/exclude verb? | 16:44 |
| dlyneswork | Or something that would achieve the same end? | 16:44 |
| dlyneswork | I want to be able to tell 10.04 NOT to install nouveau (system hangs at startup after about 5 lines of kernel output...last four lines are nouveau output) | 16:45 |
| twb | https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/amd64/appendix-preseed.html covers options you can pass | 16:45 |
| twb | I can't see anything relevant | 16:46 |
| twb | Re nouveau specifically, post-install I think you can blacklist the kernel module | 16:46 |
| dlyneswork | twb, but i can't blacklist it if i can't boot up | 16:48 |
| dlyneswork | twb, to do that, i'd need to rip the hard drive out of every single machine after I've installed, throw it onto another machine as a secondary drive, modify the config files, disconnect, and reinstall into the original machine | 16:49 |
| cjwatson | you can blacklist on the kernel command line | 16:50 |
| dlyneswork | twb, is there a reason it insists on installing a video driver, even though i haven't told it to install x11? | 16:50 |
| twb | There's a boot-time option like "video=nouveau:disable" or "video=vga16fb" or something | 16:50 |
| dlyneswork | Oh, ok | 16:50 |
| cjwatson | not that I know the syntax off the top of my head | 16:50 |
| cjwatson | the video driver is part of the kernel | 16:50 |
| dlyneswork | It's in /target/....?? | 16:50 |
| twb | dlyneswork: loading video drivers is opt-out in recent kernels so the naff splash stuff can run | 16:51 |
| cjwatson | video mode setting is moving from X to the kernel because it's loads more robust there in general | 16:51 |
| dlyneswork | Ah...I'm still accustomed to the good old days when nobody used framebuffer drivers in the kernel bootup :) | 16:51 |
| cjwatson | twb: nonsense | 16:51 |
| cjwatson | frankly | 16:51 |
| cjwatson | KMS is far wider than just plymouth, although I realise it's fashionable to blame plymouth for stuff | 16:51 |
| twb | cjwatson: so it's also there to make text unreadably small? :-P | 16:52 |
| dlyneswork | kms? | 16:52 |
| cjwatson | kernel mode setting | 16:52 |
| dlyneswork | ah | 16:52 |
| cjwatson | you can boot with 'nomodeset' to disable it | 16:52 |
| twb | That's the one I was trying to remember | 16:52 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, but in 10.04, where is it that it gets modified? Is it in the same file and the same way as 9.04? | 16:52 |
| twb | FWIW, Debian has KMS, but it doesn't compile it into the kernel | 16:52 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, with 9.1 ubuntu switched to grub2, didn't it? | 16:53 |
| cjwatson | dlyneswork: I don't recall the state of 9.04, but it probably didn't have KMS | 16:53 |
| cjwatson | dlyneswork: correct | 16:53 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, so is there any documentation as to which file I need to modify and where? I don't have a working 10.04 install to look at to know where to fix it in my preseed script | 16:54 |
| twb | Oops, I just added nomodeset to my new LXC server, and os-prober found lucid on all the containers and added them to grub.cfg | 16:54 |
| cjwatson | dlyneswork: just add nomodeset to the end of the kernel command line when installing; or for already installed systems you can try it out by editing the kernel parameters interactively at boot time | 16:54 |
| cjwatson | dlyneswork: to make it permanent, add it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub and run update-grub | 16:55 |
| cjwatson | twb: it's not built-in in Ubuntu either, it's modular | 16:55 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, ah, ok...so I'll need to hit left shift to do it, then...ok...thought I had to edit the grub file after it was installed /target/boot/grub/menu.lst on grub1 | 16:55 |
| ev | hm, since when does -l need to come after -o in gcc? | 16:55 |
| cjwatson | ev: technically it always ought to have done, but the linker was made stricter on Monday | 16:56 |
| cjwatson | as part of other changes | 16:56 |
| ev | ah, fair enough | 16:56 |
| cjwatson | actually I think it only needs to come after the object that uses symbols from the linked libraries, not necessarily after -o | 16:56 |
| ev | right | 16:56 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, ok...so /target/etc/default/grub, and then run update-grub against /dev/sda | 16:57 |
| ev | cjwatson: thanks for the clarification | 16:57 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, thanks | 16:57 |
| cjwatson | dlyneswork: um, why are you fiddling with /target for this? | 16:57 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, because it's borked after the pxe boot install | 16:57 |
| cjwatson | dlyneswork: why not just boot it interactively with nomodeset, and then you can edit it directly when it's running? | 16:58 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, so i need to fix it as part of my preseed/late_command | 16:58 |
| cjwatson | ah, no, better solution for that | 16:58 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, because I want to be able to have it fixed without trying to explain to some windows user how to fix it | 16:58 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, it's probably going to be some clueless windows user installing these systems...I'm just setting up the automated installer | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | put nomodeset on the end of the append line in your pxelinux configuration | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | make sure there's a "--" parameter somewhere before it | 16:59 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, not needed there....the pxeboot is working just fine | 16:59 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, it's the post install that's not | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | everything after "--" (with a few specific exceptions) gets copied into the installed bootloader configuration | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | trust me | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | this is much simpler and more robust than using preseed/late_command | 16:59 |
| twb | dlyneswork: if you put it in the pxelinux APPEND *after* a --, it'll be added automatically post-install | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | so the append line would look like "blah blah blah -- nomodeset" | 17:00 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, oh...so whatever I add into the kernel parameters for the pxelinux.cfg/default file gets applied to the /etc/default/grub in the install? | 17:00 |
| dlyneswork | twb, ah...cool...thanks both of you | 17:00 |
| cjwatson | anything after "--", yes | 17:00 |
| CIA-4 | migration-assistant: evand * r105 migration-assistant/ (Makefile debian/changelog): Fix linking to libxml2. | 17:01 |
| dlyneswork | erm...sorry... i386/boot-screens/text.cfg right? | 17:01 |
| cjwatson | whatever you're using :) | 17:02 |
| dlyneswork | And there I would move my vga-normal from before the '--' to after the '--'? Or put it in both locations? | 17:02 |
| dlyneswork | erm vga=normal, i mean | 17:02 |
| twb | IIRC vga is magical and is always ignored | 17:03 |
| twb | In terms of propagation to post-boot | 17:03 |
| dlyneswork | ah, ok | 17:03 |
| dlyneswork | so just -- nomodeset then, instead | 17:03 |
| cjwatson | twb is correct | 17:03 |
| cjwatson | vga= breaks suspend/resume so we filtered it out | 17:04 |
| dlyneswork | ah | 17:04 |
| dlyneswork | Trying with the nomodeset now in text.cfg, then | 17:05 |
| dlyneswork | Will that get rid of plymouthd on startup, as well? | 17:05 |
| twb | dlyneswork: fyi, here's my netboot script: http://paste.debian.net/100222/ | 17:06 |
| ev | you cannot get rid of plymouth | 17:06 |
| cjwatson | just remove 'splash' for that | 17:06 |
| cjwatson | plymouthd will still run, but not the splash screen | 17:06 |
| CIA-4 | migration-assistant: evand * r106 migration-assistant/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.6.8 | 17:06 |
| twb | I noticed that if you hit ESC twice, plymouth will put two copies of the console output one after the other on the screen | 17:06 |
| cjwatson | (which is what most people who ask this question care about) | 17:06 |
| cjwatson | twb: I think that's fixed upstream | 17:06 |
| dlyneswork | twb, and what exactly does that do? | 17:07 |
| dlyneswork | twb, your script, that is | 17:07 |
| cjwatson | I noticed something that looks very plausible for that in the merge diff | 17:07 |
| twb | dlyneswork: it creates /srv/tftp | 17:07 |
| dlyneswork | twb, you mean a mirror? | 17:07 |
| twb | dlyneswork: no, for PXE booting. | 17:07 |
| dlyneswork | twb, or you mean the tftp pxeboot stager? | 17:07 |
| dlyneswork | twb, ah..yeah...I've got all that set up already | 17:07 |
| dlyneswork | twb, got it set up for 9.04, 10.04 and 10.1 | 17:07 |
| dlyneswork | twb, for multiple specialized configurations | 17:08 |
| twb | dlyneswork: I was just mentioning it in case you wanted to compare implementations | 17:08 |
| dlyneswork | twb, ah....yeah...I used the ubuntu pxeboot howto as a template, but have performed fairly extensive modifications to it, because i need a 2nd stage installer to do the drbl installation | 17:09 |
| dlyneswork | twb, basically pxeboot install the masternode....masternode is a pxeboot server for multiple slave nodes that mount all their files over nfs | 17:09 |
| dlyneswork | twb, plus i have another installer for a copy machine and another one for development machines | 17:10 |
| dlyneswork | twb, drbl's a project from taiwan (drbl.sf.net) | 17:10 |
| twb | Nod. | 17:11 |
| twb | Sounds similar to my project (prisonpc.com) | 17:11 |
| davmor2 | cjwatson: By the way ref the install issues I don't get them if I upgrade only if I install fresh from natty iso | 17:20 |
| dlyneswork | twb, yeah...not so sure drbl has security well in mind :o | 17:20 |
| cjwatson | davmor2: I'm trying a kvm install now | 17:20 |
| dlyneswork | twb, but then again, prisonpc looks like it's geared towards management of a windows network? | 17:21 |
| davmor2 | cjwatson: I might get a bit of quieter time latter if I do I'll do a fresh install and open up ssh for you if that will help, just let me know :) | 17:22 |
| twb | dlyneswork: our primary target is prisons currently running Windows | 17:22 |
| twb | They don't run Windows once we're done with them :-) | 17:22 |
| dlyneswork | twb, yeah...and prisoners would never ever try to pirate software or visit porn sites now, would they? | 17:22 |
| cjwatson | ev: should that m-a upload fix the partman vs. m-a crash somebody reported the other day? | 17:22 |
| dlyneswork | twb, or buy drugs on the internet? :p | 17:22 |
| cjwatson | ev: I just saw that in a no-frills kvm install | 17:23 |
| cjwatson | also, no /var/log/syslog. wtf | 17:23 |
| ev | cjwatson: doubtful. If you're referring to davmor2's bug, that's the result of parted_server shutting down before m-a comes on the scene. | 17:23 |
| twb | dlyneswork: shrug. | 17:23 |
| * cjwatson thinks blackz dropped /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf | 17:24 | |
| cjwatson | ev: confused as to what would have changed to cause that | 17:24 |
| davmor2 | ev: no I blanked the HDD and did a fresh install that didn't trigger the m-a issue I just had plymouth with the Ubuntu logo and the dot constantly cycling | 17:24 |
| ev | cjwatson: indeed, I'm perplexed as well. I'll investigate it after I get through this partman-auto work. | 17:25 |
| * cjwatson concludes that to a first approximation nobody is using natty yet | 17:25 | |
| cjwatson | since there's no bug about rsyslog being configured entirely wrongly | 17:25 |
| ev | cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/534328/ - would you mind committing some variant of that to Debian? | 17:26 |
| cjwatson | are you sure that's needed? that's weird | 17:29 |
| cjwatson | I wouldn't have expected the position of -o to be relevant (as I said above) | 17:29 |
| ev | it appears to be | 17:29 |
| ev | perhaps I'm glossing over a deeper bug | 17:29 |
| cjwatson | partman-base 146ubuntu1 failed to build, certainly, but the unreleased change immediately above yours fixed it | 17:31 |
| cjwatson | it was only necessary to move $(LIBS) after the .c | 17:31 |
| cjwatson | (and I already committed that change to Debian) | 17:31 |
| cjwatson | the current unreleased version builds for me in a natty chroot | 17:31 |
| cjwatson | it's my oversight that I forgot to upload that | 17:32 |
| ev | fair enough | 17:32 |
| cjwatson | sorry about that | 17:32 |
| ev | no worries at all | 17:32 |
| CIA-4 | partman-base: cjwatson * r222 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 146ubuntu2 | 17:32 |
| ev | I'm just trying to plough through so I can get a new ubiquity to work with for the other end of this new partman-auto option | 17:33 |
| dlyneswork | be465n9-r | 18:14 |
| dlyneswork | oops | 18:14 |
| dlyneswork | cjwatson, thanks...that method worked perfectly, and plymouth didn't get in the way that way, either | 18:15 |
| cjwatson | cool | 18:16 |
| dlyneswork | Still need to fine tune it a bit, but it's working in a much more usable manner, now | 18:17 |
| charlie-tca | Is there a way to abort the install now? Installation from live desktop on hardware running 45 minutes | 20:08 |
| charlie-tca | appears to be hung, no dialog in the "ready when you are..." box to indicate, but has not progressed the marker for 30 minutes | 20:09 |
| charlie-tca | natty, by the way | 20:11 |
| cjwatson | yes, I saw that too | 20:11 |
| cjwatson | I killed the vm until I had a chance to investigate properly :) | 20:11 |
| charlie-tca | So, a hardware shutdown? Is there a way to pull the logs for you? | 20:12 |
| cjwatson | it was hard to investigate anything because of rsyslog being broken, so I fixed that and decided to wait for the next build | 20:12 |
| cjwatson | no, there won't be useful logs because rsyslog was busted | 20:12 |
| charlie-tca | Okay, I will try again tomorrow | 20:12 |
| cjwatson | hence my perhaps excessively sarcastic comments on #-devel earlier ... | 20:12 |
| cjwatson | you can certainly do c-a-f1 and poke around on a console | 20:13 |
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