[01:00] <pleia2> hi everyone, Americas board meeting should be starting now but it looks like neither of the folks on the list are here at the moment
[01:00] <pleia2> kombuchakip? dhillonv10?
[01:01] <pleia2> we'll be here for a half hour if either of them comes by, but then we'll have to call it a night
[01:06] <dinda> pleia2: ok, i
[01:06] <dinda> pleia2: I'm around if needed
[01:07] <pleia2> ok, I'll ping you if they show up :)
[01:07]  * pleia2 has an ubuntu hour to skip off to after the meeting anyway
[01:30] <pleia2> ok folks, I think we're going to wrap this up
[01:30] <nhandler> Sorry for anyone who showed up to support any of the applicants
[01:30] <pleia2> thanks for coming anyway :)
[09:59] <czajkowski> /c
[10:00] <jpds>  /j
[10:34] <soren> /?
[14:52] <pitti> skaet: good morning! meeting is in 8 mins, right?
[14:55] <tsimpson> Pici: fridge says it stars in an hour
[14:55] <tsimpson> err, pitti
[14:55] <tsimpson> (tab-fail)
[14:55] <Pici> tsimpson: its okay, I'm used to getting pitti's hilights.
[14:56] <pitti> * Time: 1500UTC - 1630UTC
[14:56] <pitti> that's what the email invitation said
[14:56] <pitti> (and that also was the usual time for many, many months)
[14:57] <pitti> tsimpson: I guess the fridge isn't UTC based?
[14:57] <tsimpson> pitti: it _should_ be, butt google has UTC fail recently
[14:58] <tsimpson> I think it gets confused about DST changes
[15:00] <apw> yep, 15:00 is now
[15:07] <ogra> pitti, in 1h
[15:07] <ogra> as usual
[15:07] <pitti> ogra: depends on the definition of "as usual" :) 1500 UTC was "as usual" during summer
[15:07] <pitti> and also in the previous winter
[15:08] <ogra> well, i got an invitation from skaet that says 17:00 local time for me
[15:08] <pitti> gcal is broken
[15:08] <ogra> i usually trust evolutions TZ translation here
[15:08] <pitti> ogra: the email invitation said 1500 UTC
[15:08] <ogra> more than gcal
[15:08] <apw> * Time: 1500UTC - 1630UTC
[15:08] <pitti> but anyway, she's not here yet, so I guess we postpone it to later
[15:09] <skaet> pitti,  sorry about the calendar glitch.   I was expecting it to start in an hour....
[15:09] <apw>  apw@dm$ date -u
[15:09] <apw> Fri Nov 19 15:08:58 UTC 2010
[15:09] <apw> skaet, that is cause you believed the crap google cal tells you :)
[15:09] <ScottK> o/
[15:09] <apw> it has never been right since you guys moves the time of the DST transitions off the time the rest of the world does them
[15:09] <skaet> apw,  indeed...   silly me,  believing the tools work.   sigh.  should know better.
[15:09] <apw> :)
[15:10] <ScottK> apw: Well that's over now, so I think that's not it.
[15:10] <apw> ScottK, is it?  ok
[15:10] <ScottK> I think.  Doesn't Europe switch first?
[15:10] <ScottK> US switched last weekend.
[15:10] <ScottK> (or was it two weeks, I've lost track)
[15:11] <apw> yeah we switched when you used to do ... having aligned with you :)
[15:11] <ScottK> Of course.
[15:11] <skaet> see y'all back here in an hour, ok?
[15:11] <ScottK> At least it's not like Argentina where the legistlature has to decide it every year.
[15:12] <pitti> skaet: why not start now?
[15:12] <skaet> don't think marjo & victorp are around...
[15:12] <ogra> pitti, because i have my page not ready yet :P
[15:12] <pitti> skaet: if not, do we officially move it later one hour just for today, or for subsequent meetings as well?
[15:12] <victorp> skaet - hi
[15:12] <skaet> pitti,  all subsequent ones.
[15:13] <victorp> my calendar shows that it starts in 45min
[15:13] <apw> skaet, have you checked if the hour after is empty too ?
[15:13] <victorp> busy now
[15:13] <apw> victorp, your calendar is wrong sadly ... google is hopeless with DST handling
[15:13] <victorp> apw - yes it is
[15:14] <victorp> the sad fact still remain that I am book in another meeting :)
[15:14] <apw> skaet, ok on the fridge its at 16:00-17:00 UTC
[15:16]  * skaet shakes head head - its showing on mine (and I set it, as 10am)...
[15:17] <skaet> I'll go in, and re-create it now that all the time zones have settled down, and see if we can get it on everyone's calendar properly.
[15:18] <skaet> sorry 'bout the glitch.  :(
[15:19] <skaet> pitti, ScottK, ogra, victorp, apw - will see you back here in ~40 mins.    thanks for your patience.
[15:19] <charlie-tca> I am starting to severely dislike these calendars. They seem to fail often
[15:19]  * skaet nods
[15:28] <soren> skaet: Secret trick: If the calendar you're using doesn't let you set UTC as your timezone, try setting it to Iceland. They follow UTC (and have no DST).
[15:31] <soren> skaet: That's TZ="Atlantic/Reykjavik", by the way.
[15:31]  * skaet hugs soren - good tip!
[15:32] <soren> skaet: The problem is if it's been scheduled in a TZ that has DST. Then the UTC time of it changes as that TZ moved in and out of DST. Mass confusion ensues.
[15:57]  * skaet has gone in and recreated the calendar entry - it should be showing up at 16:00 UTC ... fingers crossed.
[15:57] <skaet> which should be in about 3 minutes from now.....
[15:58] <ogra> 2
[15:59] <ScottK> 1
[15:59]  * marjo waves
[15:59] <skaet> #startmeetin
[15:59] <ogra> GOOOOOO ! :)
[15:59]  * pitti throws a g
[15:59] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is skaet.
[15:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00]  * joshuahoover waves
[16:00] <skaet> morning all,  sorry about the calendar glitches....
[16:00]  * charlie-tca waves - observing
[16:01] <skaet> welcome to kickoff for Natty release planning.
[16:01] <skaet> Release Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[16:01] <robbiew> o/
[16:02] <zematynnad> o/
[16:02] <skaet> on the agenda,  there are a variety of actions that have caried over from the UDS BOF.
[16:02] <skaet> most are for me, and are in progress ;)
[16:03] <ScottK> skaet: FWIW, I'd prefer the term lessons learned over post-mortem.
[16:03] <skaet> just wondering if anyone had comments about the NattyReleaseSchedule?
[16:03] <skaet> ScottK,  no problem - will change it.
[16:04] <marjo> skaet: another term is "retrospective"
[16:05] <skaet> Thanks marjo,  will work with "lessons learned",  have heard it used a bit more in other places.  :)
[16:05] <sconklin> could you post the agenda link please?
[16:05] <jdstrand> o/
[16:05] <skaet> is cjwatson around?
[16:05] <ScottK> skaet: IIRC we were going to add the Linaro freeze to the schedule.
[16:05] <marjo> sconklin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-11-19
[16:05] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-11-19
[16:06] <skaet> all,  the link is in the meeting invite as well for future reference.
[16:06] <cjwatson> hi
[16:06] <skaet> ScottK,   Linaro invite is on the NattyReleaseInterlock page
[16:07] <skaet> hi cjwatson, before natty alpha1, merge cron jobs (still limited cron jobs) - where are we with this?
[16:07]  * skaet just going through the action items, before going into the round table.
[16:08] <cjwatson> skaet: not sure I understand what that means.  do you remember more detail?
[16:08] <ScottK> skaet: I'm reasonably certain most people will just look at the release shcedule.
[16:08] <skaet> cjwatson, hmm, not handy - will take it up with you offline then.
[16:09] <cjwatson> skaet: if it means cdimage cron jobs, that's all don
[16:09] <cjwatson> *done
[16:09] <cjwatson> but I don't know if that's what it means
[16:09] <skaet> ScottK,  if so, will work with JamieBennett to get it added in
[16:09] <skaet> cjwatson, thats likely it, will double check later.
[16:10] <skaet> On to Team Updates Section now...
[16:10] <ScottK> skaet: Is there supposed to be an A-1 work item iteration in the schedule (it seems odd to start with 2)?
[16:10] <ScottK> skaet: There was an item in the overview we needed to discuss
[16:11] <ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/677209
[16:11] <skaet> ScottK, when I asked about that A-1 vs. A-2, was told we don't make commitments for A-1,  only going in for A-2, which is why its listed as such.
[16:11] <ScottK> OK.
[16:12] <pitti> we still use some a1 milestoning for stuff that really needs to land early, FWIW
[16:13] <pitti> but that can be considered "team-internal planning" only
[16:13] <skaet> ScottK,  re: 677290,  cjwatson is aware of it.   Not sure there's a solution known - but agree need to figure something out.
[16:14] <ScottK> skaet: OK.  All the items in the related bug are about the bug tracker.  I think that have access to the Ubuntu archive is a rather more urgent and serious matter.
[16:14] <skaet> cjwatson, robbiew ?
[16:14] <cjwatson> aye
[16:15] <cjwatson> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
[16:15] <cjwatson> Most specs are in place now.  A lot of our work is carried over from previous cycles, so we didn't have so much drafting to do this time round, although there are a few significant additions.
[16:15] <cjwatson> A selection of interesting things that have been happening over the last couple of weeks in foundations, aside from the usual bringing up of the archive, CD images, merges, and the like:
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * early development work on flicker-free boot
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * gcc linking changes, dealing with associated build failures
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * preliminary patches for notifying plymouth about upstart state changes
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * primary and ports builds consolidated into single directories on cdimage
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * pushing the grub/btrfs licensing question a bit further up the hill with relevant external licence holders
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * python2.7 build failure work
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * software-center ratings-and-reviews work
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * training new team member on upstart
[16:15] <cjwatson> One thing I should note is that Ubuntu 10.04.2 is not all that far away.  If you have bugs you want to get fixed there, get them into the SRU process as soon as possible!
[16:15] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04.2
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04.2
[16:15] <cjwatson> I think that's all
[16:15] <cjwatson> 677209: I'm going to try changing the owner to ubuntu-archive today
[16:16] <cjwatson> in fact, right now.  let's see what blows up.
[16:16]  * skaet LOL.... wasn't quite ready to go there, but .... ok,  lets head in.
[16:16] <cjwatson> oh, sorry!  I thought you were asking for the foundations update
[16:16] <skaet> lol
[16:16] <skaet> no worries.
[16:17] <marjo> skaet: feels like a first release meeting :)
[16:17] <skaet> [TOPIC] Team Updates
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team Updates
[16:17] <cjwatson> ForbiddenAttribute.  poo.
[16:17] <cjwatson> I'll ask for a LOSA to do it.
[16:17] <skaet> next week - concerned that Alpha1  is week after, and its also Thanksgiving weekend.
[16:18] <skaet> cjwatson are we in good enough shape, we can cancel the meeting or should I hold it?
[16:18] <pitti> cjwatson: I guess python2.6 is meant to disappear from a standard install by final natty? or is there a different plan for 2.6/2.7?
[16:19] <skaet> Also,   just want people to know we'll be starting up a bi-weekly meeting to discuss SRU and 10.04.2 LTS next monday, and 10.04.2 won't be covered in this meeting.
[16:20] <cjwatson> skaet: up to you, Thanksgiving doesn't affect me :)
[16:20] <cjwatson> pitti: ScottK will know current thinking better than I.  I think we want to avoid multiple Python versions on the CDs though
[16:20] <ScottK> pitti: We need to see how 2.7 goes.  Plan is to make a final decision before feature freeze.
[16:20]  * jdstrand won't be here, but also won't have anything to contribute in the highest of all likelihoods
[16:20] <pitti> ScottK: so it'll be one or the other?
[16:20] <skaet> cjwatson,  ok.   Will cancel it formally, but if it looks like an ad-hoc is needed, we can use this slot, for those around...
[16:21] <ScottK> pitti: We may have to support both, but only one needs to be on the CD (although .so duplication in extensions and such will still cost space)
[16:21] <pitti> ScottK: understood, thanks
[16:21] <skaet> Other piece of news,  is that we'll be opening up o-series and p-series as planning place holders in next month.
[16:21] <skaet>     * These are for assigning bugs and workitems to (so they don't get lost, and can be revisited in and organized fashion at the start of each cycle).
[16:21] <skaet>     * Nothing can be uploaded to o-series (or p-series for that matter) until the start of the next release cycle.
[16:21] <skaet>     * More communication will be coming out.
[16:22] <pitti> ScottK: at least we'll have some more potential space savings for the next cycle again :)
[16:22] <ScottK> Yep
[16:22] <pitti> skaet: \o/
[16:22] <pitti> great help for bug targetting
[16:22] <ScottK> barry has been discovering some undocumented gotchas in 2.7, but nothing that's a show stopper so far.
[16:22] <skaet> pitti: indeed.   :)    Thanks to jml and launchpad team for helping with this.
[16:23] <skaet> ok... moving on to the roundtable...
[16:23] <skaet> [TOPIC] QA update
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA update
[16:23] <marjo> hi folks!
[16:23]  * skaet o/
[16:23] <marjo> in case you missed the memo, Quality Is A Major Focus For Natty!
[16:24] <marjo> * Blueprints Review
[16:24] <marjo> All blueprints and work items approved and some already done.
[16:24] <marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa.html
[16:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa.html
[16:24]  * pitti makes a note that work item chart URLs sohuld use ~platform now
[16:24] <marjo> pitti: ack
[16:24] <ogra> but but ... the credits !
[16:24] <marjo> * Would like to introduce Jean-Baptiste Lallement (jibel). He's taken over testing lead from ara. Thank you to ara for all her excellent work in previous releases!
[16:25] <skaet> thanks ara, and welcome jibel   :)
[16:25] <jibel> Hi all
[16:25] <marjo> * Natty Test Plan
[16:25] <marjo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-qa-n-testplan
[16:25] <marjo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/NattyTestPlan
[16:25] <marjo> Please review and provide feedback; it's not too late
[16:26] <skaet> marjo,  will do.  thanks.
[16:26] <marjo> As part of jibel's work, please take a look at the following
[16:26] <marjo> * Desktop Automated Testing Results
[16:26] <marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/#unity
[16:27] <marjo> i think it's quite a nice format, but as usual, if you have any enhancement requests, please just ask
[16:27] <pitti> that's quite impressive!
[16:27] <marjo> we want the QA reports to be useful and meaningful so we can use the data for decision making
[16:28] <pitti> lots of script errors, but I guess these are being worked on?
[16:28] <marjo> pitti: i agree and thx on behalf of the qa team
[16:28] <marjo> pitti: ack
[16:28] <fader_> Minor suggestion: it might be nice to highlight failed cases a bit more (change the color of the number or the background of the table cell?)
[16:29] <pitti> marjo: can we link failures with bugs?
[16:29] <marjo> fader_ ack and thx
[16:29] <pitti> fader_ +1
[16:29] <marjo> pitti: have received similar suggestion from skaet
[16:29] <marjo> will consider both to make it easy to link failed tests directly to bug reports
[16:29] <skaet> marjo, is everything ready to start the testing  of the alpha1 images, the week after next?
[16:29] <jibel> pitti, thats mainly scripts that are not compatible with unity (app menu, indicators, ...) they need a rewrite.
[16:30] <pitti> jibel: ah, I see
[16:30] <marjo> skaet: yes, will be ready, mostly setting up iso tracker (that's SOP)
[16:30] <skaet> marjo, jibel:  cool.  :)
[16:31] <skaet> any other questions?
[16:31] <marjo> here's the QA Dashboard
[16:31] <marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/qadashboard.html
[16:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/qadashboard.html
[16:32] <marjo> It's under development, so looking for feedback as always
[16:32] <marjo> skaet: that's it from QA team
[16:32]  * skaet looks around for hands...
[16:32] <marjo> thx all!
[16:33] <skaet> thanks marjo.
[16:33] <apw> skaet, ? hands for ?
[16:33] <charlie-tca> o/
[16:33] <skaet> raising hands for questions....  ;)
[16:33]  * charlie-tca raises hand
[16:33]  * apw looks stupid
[16:34] <skaet> charlie-tca, goahead, then we'll move on to Hardware Cert
[16:34] <charlie-tca> It seems like it is going to be hard to test alpha1 for accessibilty, since I don't have a good image to even complete a test case yet
[16:35] <charlie-tca> Is that something that was planned for alpha1 or 2?
[16:36] <dbarth> charlie-tca: do you mean with unity or the classic desktop?
[16:36] <marjo> charlie-tca: if necessary, can postpone to alpha-2
[16:36] <dbarth> unity won't have a11y support until a2
[16:36] <cjwatson> good image> what's the problem?
[16:36] <apw> in what way is the image not good ?
[16:36] <charlie-tca> either. Classic and unity are both failing right now
[16:36] <marjo> if functionality not there
[16:37] <charlie-tca> it doesn't install/login
[16:37] <cjwatson> period, or just with a11y?
[16:37] <charlie-tca> Natty won't install with nvidia at all
[16:37] <cjwatson> anyone know if this is just a general problem?
[16:37] <cjwatson> I can try a kvm test today
[16:37] <apw> charlie-tca, bug number ?
[16:37] <charlie-tca> also won't login for most of us if we do get it to install
[16:38] <charlie-tca> duh
[16:38] <cjwatson> if the images are just entirely broken then obviously we need to fix that for a1
[16:38] <apw> cjwatson, i've booted but not installed the lives from a couple of days ago
[16:38] <charlie-tca> I don't have the bug number
[16:38] <pitti> cjwatson: yesterday's image just loops with X start in kvm, haven't had time to investigate yet
[16:38] <pitti> and I didn't try yet on real iron
[16:38] <apw> pitti, that is a kernel issue, and only affects kvm
[16:38] <apw> we have the fix committed for that
[16:38] <pitti> ah, cool
[16:38] <charlie-tca> I can get a desktop, but can not run the install. It fails everytime. I will run it again and get a bug for it
[16:39] <skaet> charlie-tca, cjwatson, apw - is Bug #661568 related?
[16:39] <tgardner> apw, should we respin natty rather then wait for -rc3 ?
[16:39] <charlie-tca> no
[16:39] <cjwatson> fixing kvm asap would be good, I do 95% of my development testing there
[16:39] <apw> tgardner, am now thinking i should yes, likely we'll get an -rc by monday
[16:39] <cjwatson> (though obviously not a whole lot just recently)
[16:39] <charlie-tca> My original question was a11y. Got that answer.
[16:40] <tgardner> apw, I can take care of it.
[16:40] <apw> tgardner, will push that today
[16:40] <skaet> okie.   Looks like it surfaced a bigger problem though... so thanks for raising ;)
[16:41] <skaet> moving on...
[16:41] <skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification  - victorp?
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification  - victorp?
[16:41] <victorp> yes
[16:41] <victorp> I guess I can give you a quick summary of what our plans are
[16:42] <skaet> :)
[16:42] <victorp> we plan to start doing *weekly* testing for Natty starting after alpha1
[16:42] <victorp> the reason for moving from daily to weekly is that we were not finding as many bugs as we should and we are going to concentrate on improving that
[16:43] <victorp> we are also doing SRU testing for maintenance releases so all of that needs to be juggle on the same lab time
[16:43] <victorp> we are creating a gcal to track what happens when
[16:43] <victorp> also we are trying to consolidate all our reporting into a generic hw-cert account on people.c.c
[16:44] <victorp> that is about it
[16:44] <victorp> ah yes, we will also do boot metrics
[16:44] <skaet> victorp, will you be doing a run with the candidate images, before Alpha1, - so we get a baseline with it?
[16:45] <victorp> skaet: we could, although I was expecting Alpha1 to be the baseline
[16:45] <victorp> we need some stability before we can do automated testing on large amount of systems
[16:46] <victorp> also - on the people side of things, Ara will be the lead
[16:46] <victorp> but she is travelling today
[16:46] <skaet> victorp,  it would be good to do a sample of them at least - so we know where we are and can warn folks if necessary.
[16:46] <victorp> skaet - everything is negotiable ;)
[16:46] <victorp> ok - if you believe there is value lets work together to schedule some
[16:47] <skaet> victorp,  :)    Thanks!
[16:47] <skaet> any other questions?
[16:47]  * skaet looks around for o/ s  ;)
[16:48] <skaet> [TOPIC] Security Team - jdstrand
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team - jdstrand
[16:48] <jdstrand> o/
[16:48] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:48] <jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
[16:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
[16:48] <jdstrand> Our bps and work items should be up to date. With the exception of apparmor items, most of our work for this cycle came from bringing forward lucid and maverick bps that were postponed.
[16:49] <jdstrand> though apparmor did have several brought forward too...
[16:49] <jdstrand> Beyond that, there is not a lot to report. Kees is reworking the packaging on AppArmor and fixing various 2.6 bugs (this is part of our long term goal/hope to get apparmor in Debian). jjohansen and I are looking at ipc mediation and dbus confinement, and as a team we are getting to our merges and security fixes for natty.
[16:49] <skaet> thanks jdstrand.  :)
[16:49] <skaet> any questions?
[16:50] <skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel Team Update - apw
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team Update - apw
[16:50] <apw> o/
[16:50] <skaet> :)
[16:50] <apw> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
[16:50] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:50] <apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-1.html
[16:50] <apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:50] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:50] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-1.html
[16:50] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:50] <apw> The burndown is still in flux as new work items are still appearing which is affecting the overall burndown line.  This should resolve in the next week.
[16:51] <apw> Of the bugs called out on the agenda the first is actually an ARM bug.  Of the remainder investigation is ongoing, fuller details are available on the status page (first link above); all seem to be limited to a small number of users.  The main distro blueprints are all at a very early stage but progress is being made, everything planned for natty-alpha-1 seems to be on track currently.
[16:51] <apw> The main distro kernel is now rebased forward to mainline v2.6.37-rc2 and uploaded.  Recent updates have re-enabled aufs support and the live-cds are now booting succesfully (at least for i386 and amd64).  Which ARM kernels we will have and at which versions are still in the air at this time.

[16:51] <skaet> apw,  thanks.   :)   will adjust the tracking of that first bug.
[16:52] <skaet> any questions?
[16:52] <ogra> that bug should also be whishlist ;)
[16:53] <skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations - cjwatson  ( see above log )
[16:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations - cjwatson  ( see above log )
[16:53] <ogra> (not a critical SRU task)
[16:53] <skaet> ogra, ack.
[16:54] <skaet> there were some questions on the foundation team's status already above.
[16:54] <davmor2> cjwatson: just to confirm charlie-tca issues on the installs. I left a note on #ubuntu-release last night,  for me plymouth doesn't seem to stop,  All I get is the Ubuntu and the dots below cycling.  If I drop into tty I can stop plymouth and manually start gdm but gdm doesn't appear.   I then ran out of time to do anything and have been too busy today
[16:56] <skaet> any other questions, comments?
[16:56] <skaet> moving on then...
[16:56] <skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - robbiew?
[16:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - robbiew?
[16:57] <robbiew> not much to update in this week
[16:57] <robbiew> sorting out blueprints
[16:57] <robbiew> mostly done there
[16:57] <robbiew> have prioritized
[16:57] <robbiew> but still need to finish up targeting to milestones
[16:57] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyBlueprints
[16:58] <skaet> thanks
[16:58] <robbiew> plan to work on a REAL status page for next time
[16:58] <robbiew> ;)
[16:58] <skaet> :)
[16:58] <skaet> any update on bug#600174?
[17:01] <cjwatson> 600174 looks like a server bug?
[17:01] <cjwatson> oh, sorry, we moved on to server already
[17:01] <skaet> :)
[17:01] <cjwatson> davmor2: thanks
[17:02] <skaet> any other questions for server team?
[17:02]  * skaet notes she needs to pick up pace... meeting running long.
[17:03] <skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team Update  - pitti?
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team Update  - pitti?
[17:03] <pitti> Most blueprints are drafted, approved, and have proper WIs, except for:
[17:03] <pitti> - other-desktop-n-set-default-paper-size-correctly: Needs lots of research, will probably not make natty in its entirety
[17:03] <pitti> - appdevs-desktop-n-app-sandbox: Allison Randal's spec, just landed under the desktop umbrella, but not being worked on by the desktop team
[17:03] <pitti> - packageselection-desktop-n-donations-for-free-software-through-software-center: Being worked on by foundations and online services
[17:03] <pitti> We are on track for natty WIs so far.
[17:03] <pitti> Alpha-1 chart is a bit behind, but we expect to land the WIs in time still. This particularly affects the unification of desktop and netbook seeds/CDs, and landing the new compiz-based Unity (which is happening as we speak).
[17:03] <pitti> e already landed the new compiz 0.9, which broke everyone's configuration and key bindings, but will give us early feedback about hardware compatibility and performance.
[17:03] <pitti> On that front, I bootcharted compiz 0.9, and it's quite a bit faster than 0.8 (maverick) indeed, mostly due to not having to parse tons of XML.
[17:03] <pitti> ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus has the details about the currently tracked RC bugs.
[17:03] <skaet> cool
[17:03] <pitti> sorry,
[17:04] <pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:04] <pitti> Wrt. CD space savings, all planned package mangling stuff is in now, and reasonably working. On that front we mainly need package rebuilds now.
[17:04] <pitti> Perl elimination has turned out to be much harder than anticipated; first because it's against the spirit and letter of the Debian Perl policy, and also raised some discussion with upstream. Hardest problem here is apparmor-utils, which has a very long perl lib dependency chain. So let's not count on Perl removal in Natty, but I think the current optimizations should already get us quite far.
[17:04] <skaet> ok
[17:05] <skaet> any update on the bugs listed in the agenda?
[17:06] <pitti> skaet: they are in the wiki page
[17:06] <pitti> do you want me to paste?
[17:06] <pitti> there is nothing that stands out as a blocker or discussion worthy IMHO
[17:06] <skaet> pitti,  no need.   Will read up after the meeting.
[17:06] <skaet> just needed to know if blocker or discussion worthy ;)
[17:06] <skaet> thanks pitti
[17:07] <skaet> any other questions?
[17:07] <skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team
[17:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team
[17:07] <joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
[17:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
[17:07] <joshuahoover> no big news to share...details are in the link above...
[17:07] <joshuahoover> work on desktopcouch, choosing which folders to sync on each computer, and integration with zeigeist is all actively in-progress
[17:08] <joshuahoover> the other blueprints are either being finalized or are in queue to be worked on next
[17:08] <joshuahoover> our burndown charts will be fixed after today (need to create proper source tasks)
[17:08] <joshuahoover> that's about it
[17:08] <joshuahoover> any questions?
[17:08] <skaet> thanks joshuahoover :)
[17:08] <dbarth> joshuahoover: are you guys using libzg btw? ie know that it's moving to gdbus?
[17:09] <joshuahoover> dbarth: not sure, i'll have to check
[17:09] <dbarth> joshuahoover: get in touch with kamstrup, he'll tell you all about it
[17:09] <joshuahoover> dbarth: cool, thanks!
[17:09]  * skaet looks around for more questions...
[17:10] <skaet> ok, moving on...
[17:10] <skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu team update
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu team update
[17:10] <skaet> ScottK or Riddell - who's doing the honors?
[17:10] <Riddell>  * Qt 4.7.1 and QtWebKit 2.1 in
[17:10] <Riddell>  * ScottK still working on ARM workaround for Qt
[17:10] <Riddell>  * Experimentally swiched to gstreamer for phonon backend
[17:10] <Riddell>  * turned on Raster painting engine in Qt
[17:10] <Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.6 beta 1 due next week
[17:10] <Riddell>  * https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[17:11] <Riddell>  we fixed one problem with Qt on ARM but now there's another it seems
[17:11] <ScottK> Qt is fixed, but GCC is broken and it's Qt that suffers.
[17:12] <ogra> poor gcc everyone blames it :)
[17:13] <skaet> :)
[17:13] <skaet> thanks Riddell.  any questions?
[17:14] <skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience
[17:14] <dbarth> hi
[17:14] <skaet> hi
[17:14] <dbarth> The status report is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
[17:14] <dbarth> the details are there but in general
[17:14] <dbarth> blueprints and milestones set in details for the next 2 iterations
[17:14] <dbarth> Unity landed today in Natty
[17:15] <skaet> cool.
[17:15] <dbarth> yeah :-)
[17:15] <dbarth> we're on track with the feature dev. to have all of the launcher and panel again with the compiz version
[17:15] <skaet> let the testing begin....
[17:15] <dbarth> try it out, you'll see how faster it is
[17:15] <dbarth> at the Unity Foundations level (aka Ayatana)
[17:15]  * ogra would like to see if it works with GLES :)
[17:16] <dbarth> the work on porting dbusmenu over to gdbus is almost finished
[17:16] <dbarth> libzg is ready; dee to follow
[17:16] <dbarth> ogra: yeah, again patches welcome
[17:16] <dbarth> last
[17:17] <dbarth> QA: we've connected the dots i think with the QA team
[17:17] <dbarth> and the integration of test plans and teams is going well
[17:17]  * ogra isnt a graphics developer else i would be in another team ;)
[17:17] <marjo> dbarth: ack & thx
[17:18] <dbarth> and on the HW front, we should do the same with victorp next week to make sure we track the compatibility of Unity on a wide range of machines
[17:18] <skaet> :)
[17:18] <skaet> thanks dbarth.     any questions?
[17:18] <dbarth> and we have tarmac and daily builds running now
[17:18]  * skaet oops...
[17:18] <dbarth> that's it for DX
[17:18] <dbarth> ;)
[17:19] <skaet> thanks dbarth,  sorry about being too quick there...
[17:19] <skaet> any questions?
[17:19] <dbarth> nw
[17:19] <skaet> [TOPIC] User Experience Team Update
[17:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  User Experience Team Update
[17:20]  * skaet looks around..  not sure we've got representation here....
[17:20] <skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team Update - ogra
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team Update - ogra
[17:21] <ogra> wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[17:21] <ogra> the team was mostly busy with spec preparation and writing
[17:21] <ogra> OMAP4 daily images build again after Bug 674146 was worked around temporary
[17:21] <ogra> OMAP3 kernel status is not clear yet, while we would like to use linaros kernel, we need confirmation from kernel and security teams for 18 months support
[17:21] <ogra> Swork on SRU bugs has been done
[17:21] <ogra> The FTBFS list on qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs is full of KDE issues caused by Bug 673085 (thanks ScottK for working on a fix)
[17:21] <ogra> The dove architecture has officially been dropped out of official archive builds
[17:21] <ogra> image status:
[17:21] <ogra> they are building, not much QA has been done at this state of the release
[17:21] <ogra> specs:
[17:22] <ogra> Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html
[17:22] <ogra> A1: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-arm-natty-alpha-1.html
[17:22] <ogra> Bugs:
[17:22] <ogra> mainly SRU bugs we are working on
[17:22] <ogra> thats it :)
[17:23] <skaet> thanks ogra.  :)    questions?
[17:23] <skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU Team Update - ScottK
[17:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Team Update - ScottK
[17:23] <ScottK> Hello
[17:23] <skaet> Hello
[17:24] <ScottK> Lots of enthusiasm about working on fixing stuff for the toolchain changes on Natty.
[17:24] <skaet> cool
[17:24] <ScottK> I think a number of people have their head around the no indirect linking changes and are helping others learn how to fix them.
[17:25] <skaet> that's nice to hear.
[17:25] <ScottK> I'm a bit concerned about the changes to -no-as-needed where order now matters in a way it didn't before.
[17:25] <ScottK> (sorry, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details myself)
[17:25] <skaet> I'm not sure I understand...
[17:25] <ScottK> It would be useful if someone who really understands the issue would write up a tutorial.
[17:26] <ScottK> There was another change added to linker behavior where it's pickier about the order now.
[17:26] <ScottK> cjwatson: can you help me here?
[17:26] <cjwatson> basically symbols are processed left-to-right
[17:27] <cjwatson> (traditional unix linker semantics)
[17:27] <ScottK> As is usual with gcc, it's just now enforcing what was always that "correct" way to do it, but a lot of sofware is buggy and I don't think people know how to deal with it.
[17:27] <cjwatson> if you have foo.c which uses symbols from libbar, then the link line needs to be foo.c -lbar not -lbar foo.c
[17:28] <ScottK> Yes.  That's the one.
[17:28] <cjwatson> doko did say that he might turn it off, but I think it would be good to leave it in place for a while
[17:28] <cjwatson> it's not as though the changes are making software worse
[17:28] <skaet> does it make sense to ask doko to do a write up, we can point folks to?
[17:28] <ScottK> It would be nice if someone who understands this well would write up a tutorial on it.
[17:29] <ScottK> cjwatson: I'm not arguing to turn it off at this point, I'd like to do what we can to broaden the set of people that can help fix things.
[17:30] <skaet> [ACTION] skaet - find someone to write up a tutorial on increasing strictness of linker and ways to fix it.
[17:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  skaet - find someone to write up a tutorial on increasing strictness of linker and ways to fix it.
[17:31] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:31] <ScottK> That's all.
[17:31]  * skaet hmm,  should probably rephrase the action a bit more, but that's the jist.  ;)
[17:31] <skaet> thanks ScottK.
[17:31] <skaet> any questions?
[17:31] <skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro Update - JamieBennett?
[17:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro Update - JamieBennett?
[17:32] <JamieBennett> All it quiet in Linaro land :)
[17:32] <skaet> congrats on getting the release out :)
[17:32] <JamieBennett> Thanks !
[17:32] <skaet> quiet is good.
[17:32] <JamieBennett> No images atm and lots of work on planning
[17:32] <skaet> when and where will your blueprints be available?
[17:33] <JamieBennett> They are spread over several projects, not ideal
[17:33] <cjwatson> skaet: http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking covers most of it, but the ordering issue needs to be added
[17:33] <JamieBennett> we are writing a tool to collate and show this information
[17:33] <skaet> cjwatson,  thanks!
[17:33] <JamieBennett> So lots of work-item-tracker changes are planned
[17:33] <cjwatson> doko: ^- could you make sure the ordering issue shows up in ToolChain/DSOLinking at some point?
[17:34] <skaet> JamieBennett, cool.   Looking forward to seeing the collated info.
[17:34] <JamieBennett> skaet: yeah, if the tracking stuff comes off soon, we should have some really good tools
[17:34] <skaet> excellent - bounce me a link, when you've got some prototypes.   :)
[17:35] <JamieBennett> will do
[17:35] <skaet> thanks JamieBennett.
[17:35] <skaet> any questions?
[17:35] <skaet> [TOPIC] open floor - new issues, questions, etc. ....
[17:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  open floor - new issues, questions, etc. ....
[17:36] <skaet> sorry all about the google calendar glitches.   Can anyone confirm for me, its now correct in Europe and UK?
[17:37]  * skaet looks around....
[17:37] <skaet> ok,   feels like this meeting should end then now.
[17:37] <pitti> if 1600 UTC is supposed to be the new meeting time, it looks correct to me now
[17:38] <skaet> thanks pitti.   yup,  thats what we were aiming for.
[17:38] <pitti> (but please let's move it back again in March, otherwise this will go too much into Friday evening)
[17:38] <skaet> pitti.   ok. will do.  :)
[17:38] <pitti> thanks everyone!
[17:38] <skaet> thanks everyone.
[17:38] <skaet> #endmeeting
[17:38] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:38.
[17:39] <skaet> thanks everyone.   Sorry it ran so late today.
[17:40] <marjo> thx skaet
[17:40] <skaet> thanks marjo
[17:41]  * skaet has put on her thinking cap, and will try to get this a little more efficient next time.
[17:41] <marjo> skaet: don't let the qa guy run on and on
[17:41] <skaet> lol
[17:42] <marjo> skaet: he likes to ask for feedback
[17:42] <skaet> :)
[17:43]  * skaet heading off for some lunch now...