[00:31] night all [06:30] morning all [06:44] AlanBell: morning back to you. Bit of an early bird but then that depends on where in the world you are. [08:07] morning everyone [08:08] morning [08:19] Morning all [08:51] Glowing bio-LED trees could replace street lights: http://is.gd/hp3zP Is that cool or what? [08:53] o/ [08:53] would be annoying though [08:53] you can turn off street lights if you have to [08:54] MartijnVdS: i'm gonna do some more study today... so might have some newb problems i'll need help with if your on here [08:54] bioLED? where's the 'd' bit? [08:56] morning :) [08:56] morning screen-x [08:59] BigRedS: Dunno. Maybe each leaf is a diode? [09:00] TheOpenSourcerer: Haha, perhaps. I suppose 'led' has come to mean 'modern light source' rather than, well, LED... [09:06] aloha [09:06] afternoon czajkowski [09:10] AlanBell: ping free for a call later on [09:11] soooo tired [09:11] czajkowski: AlanBell is out at the moment, networking in Godalming [09:14] where? [09:14] in Godalming [09:15] *googles* doesnt sound like a real place [09:15] It is a very nice small town not far from Guildford. [09:16] ahhh [09:16] ok thanks [09:16] shall poke him later re some event [09:16] thank you [09:16] np [09:19] back now [09:19] that was quick [09:21] Nice - Francis Maude: "I want to personally encourage the army of armchair auditors to look at this information, scrutinise and question us and ensure that every penny of taxpayers money is being spent judiciously." [09:21] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/19/francis-maude-government-data-published [09:21] yes, didn't hang about today, had to get back for the piano tuner [09:22] Our came last week [09:22] s\Our\Ours [09:22] we have *very* different pianos [09:22] morning all [09:22] lo popey [09:22] o/ popey [09:23] my piano is not finelytuned [09:23] ouchies [09:24] :) [09:24] AlanBell: when is good for a call re event today? [09:25] any time this afternoon [09:29] * popey notes that working around the nasty work proxy is useful [09:29] unfortunately once co-workers know about it I end up having to print stuff like this http://www.curchods.com/display/104703?n=7 [09:30] because the estate agent links their pictures directly to IP address hosts, not hostnamed hosts, so thats blocked [09:34] *facepalm* [09:37] * screen-x is moving forward in the queue and will be connected to an advisor shortly [09:38] ooo reminds me, need to call apple [09:39] http://www.ebuyer.com/product/229961 huh, £55 for a hd media player - interesting machine [09:43] that is an interesting device gord [09:43] gord: no NIC, but maybe could do something with that usb socket.. [09:44] * popey has an apple usb to ethernet device [09:44] and a nintendo one :) [09:45] popey: you have an MBA as well? [09:45] do they work in Ubuntu? [09:45] no [09:45] MartijnVdS: yes [09:46] popey: with or without dirty hacks? [09:46] just works [09:46] popey: Do you find that it adds overhead? [09:46] do i find what adds overhead to what? [09:47] to the giggybytes? [09:47] "is it laggy" [09:48] not sure what you mean [09:49] popey: well, with some USB disks you notice it's USB because it is (or "feels") slower [09:50] We're wondering if that's the case with usb-ethernet as well [09:50] Can anyone recommend a good DAS unit that supports RAID0,1, has a FireWire 400/800 interface and either comes with (at least) 2x1TB drive or is an empty shell which will happily support up to 2x2TB? [09:50] gmb: and a pony? [09:50] MartijnVdS: And a plastic rocket. [09:50] gmb: EDGE10 [09:50] popey: I thought that was USB and eSATA [09:50] oh, duh, sorry [09:51] buy my drobo off me then :) [09:51] morning [09:51] Hahahahaah. [09:51] morning all [09:51] (it has fw) [09:51] gmb why fw? [09:51] popey: Between you and Drew Gardner I've been absolutely convinced not to do that. [09:51] excellent, good man [09:51] morning kazade [09:51] popey, https://launchpad.net/platformation [09:51] MartijnVdS: not noticed, but not tested very much, will test later tonight if you remind me [09:51] screen-x: MacBook Pro has USB or FireWire, no eSATA. And I need to shift large amounts of data (images and video) at speed. [09:52] Got round to registering it just now :) [09:52] yay [09:52] popey: did you manage to fit all the snow-preparation stuff in your car btw? [09:52] gmb: that's the only time I've used fw800 :) [09:52] ;) [09:52] gmb: gig-e ;) [09:53] gmb: macbooks also have that [09:53] MartijnVdS: True, but I'd like to not have to upgrade my somewhat crappy network infrastructure whilst I'm at it. [09:53] :) MartijnVdS [10:02] o/ [10:02] morning daubers :) [10:04] gmb: NFS is your friend in that situation :) [10:06] * daubers quite often shifts data around at 108+MB/s [10:06] hmmmm data [10:06] daubers: See above re: crappy network. But point taken. [10:07] gmb: Take a small shuttle PC with a 2/3disk raid to the desk, crossover between them, NFS to it, move on :) [10:08] If ones a MBP you can actually make it a firewire target [10:08] * popey coughs up a drobo [10:08] gmb: Hold down T while it's booting, it'll become a firewire target [10:08] daubers: I like your thinking :) [10:08] target disk mode.. why on earth is that in firmware rather than OS? [10:09] screen-x: I'd imagine it's something on the board that does it. Part of the EFI somewhere [10:10] gmb: setup a new network? buy a GbE switch and just have the storage and the mbp on it [10:10] daubers: would useful if you could do it from disk utility [10:10] I'm not sure exporting the entire physical disk as a read-write target would be sensible while there's an OS running on it [10:11] shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export [10:11] in a laptop? [10:11] or partition etc [10:11] unlikely on a mac [10:11] popey: Mac Pros do it too [10:11] yes [10:11] thats what I'm saying [10:11] 10:11:04 < screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export [10:11] mac pros can take 4 disks by default, come with caddies too [10:11] 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop? [10:11] maybe partition wouldn't work [10:11] oh, desktops? [10:12] popey: I think we've moved away from gmb's specific case [10:12] I'm sure there's 101 ways to export a filesystem or block device over a network. having target-disk being no-os has saved my skin many times [10:12] * popey considers himself shutup [10:12] popey: Yep, mac pro, not macbook pro :) [10:12] If anyone has a Mac Pro they want to give me, I'm open to it. [10:13] gmb: What are you taking the data too off the MBP? [10:13] * screen-x imagines some trade show booth giving away branded mac pros [10:13] screen-x: Razorlab laser etches the, [10:13] them [10:14] screen-x: http://www.razorlab.co.uk/itattoo/ [10:14] ost of Linux | [10:14] What? [10:14] Whoops. [10:14] Sorry. [10:18] daubers: I'm not sure I understand your question. [10:18] gmb: Is this a one shot thing or something that will become regular? [10:19] gmb: Also are you going from MBP -> ? or ? -> MBP? [10:19] daubers: Regular. Basically I'll be dumping large wodges (4GB+) of data (images, videos, audio) onto it and then editing them from the MBP. [10:19] 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop? [10:19] oops [10:19] gmb: What data rate video (also, welcome to my office :) ) [10:20] gmb: Also is this a company thing or a personal thing? [10:22] daubers: Personal. We're talking video from a 5D or D7000, so it's about 38Mb/s, I'd expect. [10:22] I'm taking a punt on the bitrate of the D7000, but it's a reasonable ballpark. [10:22] gmb: A lot of people in your situation use something like http://www.lacie.com/uk/products/product.htm?pid=11142 but in a post house they'd use either a fibre san (depending on no. seats) or a nice big raid connected over nfs [10:23] daubers: Yeah, as a one man op the LaCie is tempting. I've heard bad things about noise levels from it (which is irritating if you're recording VOs) [10:24] gmb: RAID is normally on it's own isolated network to reduce traffic and switches coughing at latency [10:24] daubers: Right. A crossover is about as isolated as it gets :) [10:25] gmb: If you're looking at spending £lots you can build a small linux box with 4/5 disks in raid 5, you'll easily saturate GigE over NFS [10:26] how portable does it need to be? [10:26] daubers: I think I'll start with £NotALot :) [10:26] popey: Not very. [10:26] studio based? [10:26] gmb: But if the data is coming off a different machine, get a firewire cable and hold T when you boot the MBP, that makes the MBP into a firewire drive [10:27] daubers: Noted, thanks. [10:27] gmb: You can then transfer stuff onto the MBP from $another machine [10:28] popey: No, but I've got other plans for portable storage (i.e. I'll mostly edit at home anyway, but the RAID is going to be the canonical place for data to live). [10:28] I'd still get an edge10 and GbE [10:29] popey: Maybe that's the way to go. After all, I've had this router since 2003 and that's the bottleneck on the network. [10:29] i have cable modem -> router/wifi -> GbE switch, everything is plugged into that. [10:29] just an el-cheapo blue netgear one [10:30] popey: Ah, yes, that would work, too. [10:30] http://www.ebuyer.com/product/129220 [10:32] Ta [10:32] * gord presses his face against the window again waiting for the postman to come give him his networking shinys [10:32] i love my edge10 box [10:33] not as well built as the drobo, but its lovely [10:33] gmb: Personally I'd (very biasedly) recommend http://gblabs.interads.co.uk/?q=node/13 but that's cause I built it [10:33] also gmb you could get an esata pci express card for the mbp could you not? [10:34] haha, overkill :) [10:34] popey: For his case, very much so :) [10:34] is that a standard case? [10:35] or custom [10:35] also, get whoever makes that host to setup drupal correctly so you get nice urls [10:35] ?q=node/13 is fugly [10:35] hi guys [10:35] hello [10:35] half and half, starts life as a standard one, then get's attacked with a cutting torch [10:35] hah [10:36] popey: I know :( The web dev is on holiday so I can't get it fixed [10:36] he he [10:36] web dev? [10:37] web developer [10:37] the difference between a good url and a bad one, i navigate launchpad entirely by fitting the right verbs and nouns into the right places in the url [10:38] i navigate the rest of the web with google [10:38] oh i see [10:38] googleh is teh w3b!!!! [10:40] quite right comes in pretty handy sometimes [10:42] daubers: comes in handy good 'ol google [10:42] !ping [10:42] pong [10:46] daubers, popey, screen-x: Thanks for the suggestions. Of course, I basically want to have enough money (and need) to have Chase Jarvis's setup (http://bit.ly/8YyY2V), but I'm British, so I'll scale it down a bit. [10:47] am I the only one who hates that effect of jump zoom [10:50] popey: Yeah, but they're limited to what they can do when they're shooting on DSLRs. Whip-pans don't work because of the rolling shutter, so it's either jump zooms or Star Wars-style wipes. [10:50] gmb: star wars-style wipes rock though [10:50] gmb: You using FCP? [10:50] *always* star wars wipes. never use anything else. [10:50] gmb: well that or jump zooms [10:51] no, i'm with popey, i hate them [10:51] daubers: I'm experimenting with both FCP and Premier Pro CS5; Haven't decided which I prefer. [10:51] gmb: (FCP is much nice on storage....) [10:51] daubers: So I hear :) [10:52] Also, it crashes a damn sight less often. [10:52] I also dislike the guy in that video even though I have the volume muted :) [10:52] irrational, I know [10:52] popey: Which guy? [10:52] There's more than one. [10:52] gmb: Yeah, there is that. I quite like the UI in FCP tbh, didn't really get on with CS5 [10:52] the main guy, not the big lad [10:52] he is too attractive :) [10:52] annoyingly so [10:52] popey: This has been noted in our house. [10:53] :) [11:01] so the wrong time to look back at this screen [11:02] czajkowski: Why? Was it our A/V data nerdout or was it popey dissing Chase Jarvis for his looks? [11:03] the latter [11:03] felt compelled to check him out huh? [11:06] I wish people wouldn't use shortners in contexts that don't require brevity. saves me the let-down of discovering it's a site that's blocked at work :( [11:07] howdy guys [11:08] is it possible to install ubuntu to a separate partition using wubi ? [11:08] i.e. if I partition 200GB for Windows, I'm going to leave 300GB left on the disk for ubuntu.. [11:08] would I be able to install that using wubi [11:08] I imagine it'd have trouble online resizing ntfs [11:09] oh, pre-partitioned [11:09] just a wubi question rather than ubuntu one [11:09] as I can install using ubuntu usb, but wondering if wubi was capable [11:10] why use wubi? [11:10] good point [11:10] didn't have a CD drive this morning [11:11] but just nicked one from next door [11:11] therefore, the point is moot [11:11] \o/ petty theft [11:11] cheers popey [11:11] np [11:11] shauno: use ubunt.eu \o/ [11:11] next door = colleagues PC [11:11] AlanBell: it was the destination (youtube) that's blocked, not the shortener :) [11:12] \o/ bypassing proxies [11:12] \o/ toast [11:13] \o/ coffee [11:13] \o/ bourbon biscuits to go with coffee [11:14] what? no. why would you buy bourbons when you could get custard creams? [11:14] oooo ooo! [11:14] I know this! [11:15] chocolate [11:15] also.. custard digestives.. [11:15] I try not to push my luck with proxies too much .. I dread the day they notice that I stay connected to 443 for 12 hours at a time [11:16] hmm, I'd quite like a custard creme at the moment [11:16] good call [11:16] looking forward to the ubuntu monospace font [11:16] * popey listens to a bit of ELO [11:16] spend over 60% of my time in the terminal, so that'll make a nice little difference to me [11:17] chaps.. [11:17] what shall we talk about on uupc on monday [11:17] we have no segments lined up [11:17] me [11:17] need two 15min segs [11:17] thats 10 seconds sorted [11:17] how about the other 29 mins and 50 seconds [11:17] ;] [11:17] This super phoronix patch and how it's going to cure the common cold [11:17] ;) [11:17] :) [11:17] http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/readers-choice-awards-2010 is a possibility [11:18] hum, just did a dist-upgrade and now all my notes are missing... :\ [11:19] popey: how unity's not as bad as everyone thinks it is? I've not listened for a little bit though, that might've been covered already. [11:19] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SegmentIdeasFromTheCommunityForUUPC is also available :) [11:19] talk about winter survival [11:20] :) [11:20] I'm trying to avoid the unity topic until they've changed whatever 3d framework it's using [11:21] it's using compiz now [11:22] barely [11:23] the version in 10.10 puts more load on my video card than civ4 (based purely on how obnoxious the fan is) [11:23] ouch [11:24] I believe there's changes expected there, hence the 'wait and see' :) [11:24] popey: openrespect.org as a segment? [11:27] The christmas party is more news than a topic of conversation really [11:27] ooo yes, will add to events [11:28] incidentally, only 8 people signed up so far, come on people: http://ubunt.eu/c2 [11:28] * daubers added it to the official "Matts allowed to do this" calender last night [11:32] and bringing Mrs Daubers too [11:32] AlanBell: Indeed [11:32] Argh. It feels like Thunderbirds deliberately being obtuse with its 'sensible' defaults [11:33] * X3N feels he is going to be representing the youth of today again at The Hub [11:33] Morning all [11:33] incoming! [11:33] BigRedS: no it's just out to annoy you is it working? [11:34] I am not doing so well at getting wifey along to events. "will it be all your geeky friends" "yes" "I will give it a miss" :( [11:34] AlanBell: i find it helps if i mention other non-geek women will be there [11:35] yeah, tried that too [11:35] my wife still struggles with the fact that i talk to people on irc about a os........ dare i tell her about the pod cast?? [11:35] * davmor2 decides to nice to czajkowski causes it's Friday :D [11:35] :) [11:35] * popey collapses [11:36] I always had that problem trying to explain why I was laughing at lugradio [11:36] popey: I'm feeling Good so I'm spreading the feel good feeling [11:37] davmor2: neutral good, chaotic good or lawful good? [11:37] popey: mind you it could be the new pain killers [11:37] AlanBell: The missus came to the RAT and quite enjoyed herself [11:37] MartijnVdS: Generally good :D [11:37] AlanBell: does your missus work? [11:37] popey: a few days a month at a local school [11:37] ah excellent! [11:38] my wife works at a school [11:38] common interest :) [11:38] so it is [11:38] I will try again, we are owed loads of babysitting so that isn't an issue [11:41] davmor2: it's doing its job wonderfully :/ [11:46] * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice cold water over davmor2 [11:48] czajkowski: Ah can't ruin my day :P /me gives czajkowski a hug [11:49] what's the default virtualisation platform on ubuntu [11:49] need to load up a virtual image of centos on my machine, and wondering what to use [11:49] kvm [11:49] ok, thanks . [11:50] There isn't a default is also the answer [11:50] Virtualbox if you want accelerated graphics [11:50] !kvm [11:50] kvm is the preferred virtualization approach in Ubuntu. For more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM [11:50] ^^ preferred [11:50] ^^ AlanBell [11:50] virt-manager is a reasonable GUI for KVM [11:51] looks like it needs hardware support [11:51] Your machine does need to support virtualisation at the HW level for kvm to work [11:51] in teh cpu [11:51] which unfortunately mine doesn#t [11:51] andylockran: Virtualbox [11:51] :( [11:52] not :( to virtualbox btw [11:52] though vbox + oracle = future pain? [11:52] * daubers is currently installing an OSX server into VirtualBox [11:52] andylockran: You could use qemu if it still exists [11:52] daubers: is breaking license conditions ? [11:52] !qemu [11:52] qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo [11:52] andylockran: It's on a mac! [11:54] * TheOpenSourcerer has OSX in VBox :-) [11:54] * AlanBell likes virt-manager +KVM for remote machines and virtualbox for local ones [11:54] * AlanBell now has a tuned piano [11:55] * DJones wonders if the piano player has also been tuned? [11:56] AlanBell: My wife is having lessons, we've got a piano downstairs which she practises on during the daytime, but evenings when I'm home, she uses a keyboard with a set of headphones (she says so I can't hear how bad she is) [11:57] Hmm, piano lessons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQOSB8TeAs [11:57] DJones: I was planning to get a keyboard with headphones but was feeling poor and got a piano on ebay for free (buyer collects) [11:57] apparently it is pre- 1935 with art-deco legs [11:58] AlanBell: Yeah, our keyboard was free from my Gran, and the piano came free from a friend who needed the space [11:59] AlanBell: nice - who's it made by? [11:59] well that's a bit bloody annoying few free events I want to go to in london and trying to register for them and the website is being a brat! [12:01] They know who you are czajkowski :-D [12:02] AlanBell: if it's a Steinberg or Steinway from 1930's they can be v valuable [12:03] Yeah, they're lovely. [12:03] I have an old Zender of a great-great aunt. [12:03] Nothing quite like an old piano.. heavy like you wouldn't believe though. [12:04] lol: http://blogs.techworld.com/on-the-frontline/2010/11/cisco-machismo-and-the-lan/index.htm [12:04] ooh ooh! Have a good old fashioned Cockney knee's up at the XMAS party :D [12:05] * TheOpenSourcerer 's wife's piano is a 1903 Bechstein parlour grand [12:05] danfish: Our church got rid of a steinway grand piano earlier this year for £2K, it was ruined by cold/damp etc, needed £25K of refurbishment and would be valued at £35K in good condition, we didn't have the £25K for refurb, so got rid before it rotted even more [12:05] TheOpenSourcerer: :( [12:05] hi folks [12:06] Ok - evangelism opportunity here ( to a large gov dept! ).... our current software project has now breached the limit of the 32-bit JVM on windows for heap space ... so line manager has asked me to prepare some 64-bit Ubuntu LiveUSBs with the software installed to run on our nice beefy 4GB laptops ; I've already customized the iso and added a JDK so the software will run ; I've partitioned the thumb with a casper-rw [12:06] ; now I just need to know how to i) Set the keymap to uk on boot ii) automatically choose the new "persistent" menu config I stuck in the isolinux menu instead of the fancy try/install graphical prompt you get when you boot the maverick LiveCD. [12:06] DJones: bummer :( [12:06] danfish: Not so much, we didn't have anybody that could play it anyway :) [12:07] :) [12:07] awilkins: first things first - clone that line manager and send him my way [12:07] awilkins: nice [12:08] danfish, Heheheh. I used to know how to do this too when the isolinux menu was all you got - the pretty gui is stumping me. [12:09] awilkins: does the usb disk creator in ubuntu do the persistent bit for you when you load in the iso? [12:09] danfish: it is a Rudohf Schuman which neither me, the piano tuner, or google have ever heard of [12:09] which either means it is a rare and valuable antique, or old and rubbish [12:09] hah [12:10] danfish, the USB disk creator makes a loopback file ; I want a native ext3 partition (which I've done) [12:10] danfish, The persistent bit works, just want to not have to manually do anything. [12:10] ah ok [12:11] I don't even want to see the try/install prompt because some numpty will push "install" and trash his laptop [12:11] (horrible full-disk encryption, lots of explaining to ICT services) [12:11] load a translation that replaces install with "launch angry godzilla bee's" [12:12] understandable [12:13] putting a postit note on the screen where the "install" button appears probably isn't going to work either [12:13] honestly the live stuff is a tricky thing that you need specialist knowledge on, best asking the guys that build the cd [12:14] Do you know which channel they hang out in? [12:15] awilkins: I might be missing the point, but why not just do a full install onto a usb stick then clone the stick? [12:15] danfish, this may also be an option. [12:15] Probably runs faster. [12:17] awilkins, i'm being told that #ubuntu-release is the best place to ask, its where the release team live, they set up the iso so they know whats going on [12:18] gord: you're rather useful to have in here ;) [12:18] gord, Thanks for asking for me [12:18] gord is a useful person to know. [12:19] installing maverick on my desktop for the first time [12:19] like the new installer [12:19] I like the way it downloads updates in the background [12:19] can't help but notice it's taking quite a bit longer than older versions though - or maybe that's just me [12:20] andylockran, Are you running it from a CD or a USB? [12:21] * awilkins remotes the sensitive Windows drive from his laptop to prevent grub-related accidents to the encryption bootloader [12:24] awilkins: CD [12:24] awilkins: they are installing that junk here next week :( [12:25] danfish, Lucky you. The encrypted usb thumbs are rubbish too - all done in software. Cost extortionate money. [12:25] got a mac keyboard, and bought a new mouse this morning [12:26] logitech mx512 or something like that [12:26] 518 [12:26] The only advantages are someone to blame and central key escrow. [12:26] awilkins: already got one of those. £120 I think for a 2gb drive [12:27] just ordered an entropykey for more entropy on my virtual servers [12:28] danfish, Whhhhhhhhaaaaattttttt. They must hit you with more of a markup [12:28] danfish, Our internal purchase form says £65 for those, I've heard verbal quotes of £95 [12:28] My price ; 5 quid for a 2GB USB stick, nothing for Truecrypt. [12:29] hmm, uptime on my maverick install has just hit 60 minutes :s [12:29] I might charge oooh 15 quid if I wrote a few scripts to automate formatting them and copy the keyblocks to an escrow server. [12:29] awilkins: yup - our it guys seem to take the list price, double it and pass it on [12:30] awilkins: having someone to blame is the name of the game alright [12:30] danfish, My assertion that they are rubbish is based on ; they consist of two partitions, one unencrypted that contains a small util that mounts the encrypted partition. One encrypted. [12:31] ...and they can't be read in linux [12:31] AFAIK [12:31] They do not have hardware encryption like an Ironkey. [12:31] You must install drivers for them because non-admin users cannot load drivers in Windows [12:31] So they are equal to truecrypt in most respects [12:31] http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236580 [12:31] ooooooo [12:32]