[00:31] <DeathSling> night all
[06:30] <AlanBell> morning all
[06:44] <Arigead> AlanBell: morning back to you. Bit of an early bird but then that depends on where in the world you are.
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> morning everyone
[08:08] <diplo> morning
[08:19] <DJones> Morning all
[08:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Glowing bio-LED trees could replace street lights: http://is.gd/hp3zP Is that cool or what?
[08:53] <finelytuned> o/
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> would be annoying though
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> you can turn off street lights if you have to
[08:54] <finelytuned> MartijnVdS: i'm gonna do some more study today... so might have some newb problems i'll need help with if your on here
[08:54] <BigRedS> bioLED? where's the 'd' bit?
[08:56] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:56] <finelytuned> morning screen-x
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Dunno. Maybe each leaf is a diode?
[09:00] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: Haha, perhaps. I suppose 'led' has come to mean 'modern light source' rather than, well, LED...
[09:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon czajkowski
[09:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ping free for a call later on
[09:11] <mattt> soooo tired
[09:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: AlanBell is out at the moment, networking in Godalming
[09:14] <czajkowski> where?
[09:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> in Godalming
[09:15] <czajkowski> *googles* doesnt sound like a real place
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> It is a very nice small town not far from Guildford.
[09:16] <czajkowski> ahhh
[09:16] <czajkowski> ok thanks
[09:16] <czajkowski> shall poke him later re some event
[09:16] <czajkowski> thank you
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> np
[09:19] <AlanBell> back now
[09:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> that was quick
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice - Francis Maude: "I want to personally encourage the army of armchair auditors to look at  this information, scrutinise and question us and ensure that every penny  of taxpayers money is being spent judiciously."
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/19/francis-maude-government-data-published
[09:21] <AlanBell> yes, didn't hang about today, had to get back for the piano tuner
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Our came last week
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\Our\Ours
[09:22] <AlanBell> we have *very* different pianos
[09:22] <popey> morning all
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[09:22] <finelytuned> o/ popey
[09:23] <AlanBell> my piano is not finelytuned
[09:23] <finelytuned> ouchies
[09:24] <finelytuned> :)
[09:24] <czajkowski> AlanBell: when is good for a call re event today?
[09:25] <AlanBell> any time this afternoon
[09:29]  * popey notes that working around the nasty work proxy is useful
[09:29] <popey> unfortunately once co-workers know about it I end up having to print stuff like this http://www.curchods.com/display/104703?n=7
[09:30] <popey> because the estate agent links their pictures directly to IP address hosts, not hostnamed hosts, so thats blocked
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> *facepalm*
[09:37]  * screen-x is moving forward in the queue and will be connected to an advisor shortly
[09:38] <popey> ooo reminds me, need to call apple
[09:39] <gord> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/229961 huh, £55 for a hd media player - interesting machine
[09:43] <popey> that is an interesting device gord
[09:43] <screen-x> gord: no NIC, but maybe could do something with that usb socket..
[09:44]  * popey has an apple usb to ethernet device
[09:44] <popey> and a nintendo one :)
[09:45] <screen-x> popey: you have an MBA as well?
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> do they work in Ubuntu?
[09:45] <popey> no
[09:45] <popey> MartijnVdS: yes
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: with or without dirty hacks?
[09:46] <popey> just works
[09:46] <jpds> popey: Do you find that it adds overhead?
[09:46] <popey> do i find what adds overhead to what?
[09:47] <gord> to the giggybytes?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> "is it laggy"
[09:48] <popey> not sure what you mean
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> popey: well, with some USB disks you notice it's USB because it is (or "feels") slower
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> We're wondering if that's the case with usb-ethernet as well
[09:50] <gmb> Can anyone recommend a good DAS unit that supports RAID0,1, has a FireWire 400/800 interface and either comes with (at least) 2x1TB drive or is an empty shell which will happily support up to 2x2TB?
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> gmb: and a pony?
[09:50] <gmb> MartijnVdS: And a plastic rocket.
[09:50] <popey> gmb: EDGE10
[09:50] <gmb> popey: I thought that was USB and eSATA
[09:50] <popey> oh, duh, sorry
[09:51] <popey> buy my drobo off me then :)
[09:51] <danfish> morning
[09:51] <gmb> Hahahahaah.
[09:51] <kazade> morning all
[09:51] <popey> (it has fw)
[09:51] <screen-x> gmb why fw?
[09:51] <gmb> popey: Between you and Drew Gardner I've been absolutely convinced not to do that.
[09:51] <popey> excellent, good man
[09:51] <popey> morning kazade
[09:51] <kazade> popey, https://launchpad.net/platformation
[09:51] <popey> MartijnVdS: not noticed, but not tested very much, will test later tonight if you remind me
[09:51] <gmb> screen-x: MacBook Pro has USB or FireWire, no eSATA. And I need to shift large amounts of data (images and video) at speed.
[09:52] <kazade> Got round to registering it just now :)
[09:52] <popey> yay
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you manage to fit all the snow-preparation stuff in your car btw?
[09:52] <screen-x> gmb: that's the only time I've used fw800 :)
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> gmb: gig-e ;)
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> gmb: macbooks also have that
[09:53] <gmb> MartijnVdS: True, but I'd like to not have to upgrade my somewhat crappy network infrastructure whilst I'm at it.
[09:53] <popey> :) MartijnVdS
[10:02] <daubers> o/
[10:02] <screen-x> morning daubers :)
[10:04] <daubers> gmb: NFS is your friend in that situation :)
[10:06]  * daubers quite often shifts data around at 108+MB/s
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> hmmmm data
[10:06] <gmb> daubers: See above re: crappy network. But point taken.
[10:07] <daubers> gmb: Take a small shuttle PC with a 2/3disk raid to the desk, crossover between them, NFS to it, move on :)
[10:08] <daubers> If ones a MBP you can actually make it a firewire target
[10:08]  * popey coughs up a drobo
[10:08] <daubers> gmb: Hold down T while it's booting, it'll become a firewire target
[10:08] <gmb> daubers: I like your thinking :)
[10:08] <screen-x> target disk mode.. why on earth is that in firmware rather than OS?
[10:09] <daubers> screen-x: I'd imagine it's something on the board that does it. Part of the EFI somewhere
[10:10] <popey> gmb: setup a new network? buy a GbE switch and just have the storage and the mbp on it
[10:10] <screen-x> daubers: would useful if you could do it from disk utility
[10:10] <shauno> I'm not sure exporting the entire physical disk as a read-write target would be sensible while there's an OS running on it
[10:11] <screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export
[10:11] <popey> in a laptop?
[10:11] <screen-x> or partition etc
[10:11] <popey> unlikely on a mac
[10:11] <daubers> popey: Mac Pros do it too
[10:11] <popey> yes
[10:11] <popey> thats what I'm saying
[10:11] <popey> 10:11:04 < screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export
[10:11] <daubers> mac pros can take 4 disks by default, come with caddies too
[10:11] <popey> 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop?
[10:11] <screen-x> maybe partition wouldn't work
[10:11] <popey> oh, desktops?
[10:12] <daubers> popey: I think we've moved away from gmb's specific case
[10:12] <shauno> I'm sure there's 101 ways to export a filesystem or block device over a network.  having target-disk being no-os has saved my skin many times
[10:12]  * popey considers himself shutup
[10:12] <daubers> popey: Yep, mac pro, not macbook pro :)
[10:12] <gmb> If anyone has a Mac Pro they want to give me, I'm open to it.
[10:13] <daubers> gmb: What are you taking the data too off the MBP?
[10:13]  * screen-x imagines some trade show booth giving away branded mac pros
[10:13] <daubers> screen-x: Razorlab laser etches the,
[10:13] <daubers> them
[10:14] <daubers> screen-x: http://www.razorlab.co.uk/itattoo/
[10:14] <Darael> ost of Linux  |
[10:14] <Darael> What?
[10:14] <Darael> Whoops.
[10:14] <Darael> Sorry.
[10:18] <gmb> daubers: I'm not sure I understand your question.
[10:18] <daubers> gmb: Is this a one shot thing or something that will become regular?
[10:19] <daubers> gmb: Also are you going from MBP -> ? or ? -> MBP?
[10:19] <gmb> daubers: Regular. Basically I'll be dumping large wodges (4GB+) of data (images, videos, audio) onto it and then editing them from the MBP.
[10:19] <popey> 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop?
[10:19] <popey> oops
[10:19] <daubers> gmb: What data rate video (also, welcome to my office :) )
[10:20] <daubers> gmb: Also is this a company thing or a personal thing?
[10:22] <gmb> daubers: Personal. We're talking video from a 5D or D7000, so it's about 38Mb/s, I'd expect.
[10:22] <gmb> I'm taking a punt on the bitrate of the D7000, but it's a reasonable ballpark.
[10:22] <daubers> gmb: A lot of people in your situation use something like http://www.lacie.com/uk/products/product.htm?pid=11142 but in a post house they'd use either a fibre san (depending on no. seats) or a nice big raid connected over nfs
[10:23] <gmb> daubers: Yeah, as a one man op the LaCie is tempting. I've heard bad things about noise levels from it (which is irritating if you're recording VOs)
[10:24] <daubers> gmb: RAID is normally on it's own isolated network to reduce traffic and switches coughing at latency
[10:24] <gmb> daubers: Right. A crossover is about as isolated as it gets :)
[10:25] <daubers> gmb: If you're looking at spending £lots you can build a small linux box with 4/5 disks in raid 5, you'll easily saturate GigE over NFS
[10:26] <popey> how portable does it need to be?
[10:26] <gmb> daubers: I think I'll start with £NotALot :)
[10:26] <gmb> popey: Not very.
[10:26] <popey> studio based?
[10:26] <daubers> gmb: But if the data is coming off a different machine, get a firewire cable and hold T when you boot the MBP, that makes the MBP into a firewire drive
[10:27] <gmb> daubers: Noted, thanks.
[10:27] <daubers> gmb: You can then transfer stuff onto the MBP from $another machine
[10:28] <gmb> popey: No, but I've got other plans for portable storage (i.e. I'll mostly edit at home anyway, but the RAID is going to be the canonical place for data to live).
[10:28] <popey> I'd still get an edge10 and GbE
[10:29] <gmb> popey: Maybe that's the way to go. After all, I've had this router since 2003 and that's the bottleneck on the network.
[10:29] <popey> i have cable modem -> router/wifi -> GbE switch, everything is plugged into that.
[10:29] <popey> just an el-cheapo blue netgear one
[10:30] <gmb> popey: Ah, yes, that would work, too.
[10:30] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/129220
[10:32] <gmb> Ta
[10:32]  * gord presses his face against the window again waiting for the postman to come give him his networking shinys 
[10:32] <popey> i love my edge10 box
[10:33] <popey> not as well built as the drobo, but its lovely
[10:33] <daubers> gmb: Personally I'd (very biasedly) recommend http://gblabs.interads.co.uk/?q=node/13 but that's cause I built it
[10:33] <popey> also gmb you could get an esata pci express card for the mbp could you not?
[10:34] <popey> haha, overkill :)
[10:34] <daubers> popey: For his case, very much so :)
[10:34] <popey> is that a standard case?
[10:35] <popey> or custom
[10:35] <popey> also, get whoever makes that host to setup drupal correctly so you get nice urls
[10:35] <popey> ?q=node/13 is fugly
[10:35] <Phineas> hi guys
[10:35] <popey> hello
[10:35] <daubers> half and half, starts life as a standard one, then get's attacked with a cutting torch
[10:35] <popey> hah
[10:36] <daubers> popey: I know :( The web dev is on holiday so I can't get it fixed
[10:36] <Phineas> he he
[10:36] <Phineas> web dev?
[10:37] <daubers> web developer
[10:37] <gord> the difference between a good url and a bad one, i navigate launchpad entirely by fitting the right verbs and nouns into the right places in the url
[10:38] <gord> i navigate the rest of the web with google
[10:38] <Phineas> oh i see
[10:38] <daubers> googleh is teh w3b!!!!
[10:40] <Phineas> quite right comes in pretty handy sometimes
[10:42] <Phineas> daubers:  comes in handy good 'ol google
[10:42] <Phineas> !ping
[10:46] <gmb> daubers, popey, screen-x: Thanks for the suggestions. Of course, I basically want to have enough money (and need) to have Chase Jarvis's setup (http://bit.ly/8YyY2V), but I'm British, so I'll scale it down a bit.
[10:47] <popey> am I the only one who hates that effect of jump zoom
[10:50] <gmb> popey: Yeah, but they're limited to what they can do when they're shooting on DSLRs. Whip-pans don't work because of the rolling shutter, so it's either jump zooms or Star Wars-style wipes.
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> gmb: star wars-style wipes rock though
[10:50] <daubers> gmb: You using FCP?
[10:50] <gord> *always* star wars wipes. never use anything else.
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> gmb: well that or jump zooms
[10:51] <gord> no, i'm with popey, i hate them
[10:51] <gmb> daubers: I'm experimenting with both FCP and Premier Pro CS5; Haven't decided which I prefer.
[10:51] <daubers> gmb: (FCP is much nice on storage....)
[10:51] <gmb> daubers: So I hear :)
[10:52] <gmb> Also, it crashes a damn sight less often.
[10:52] <popey> I also dislike the guy in that video even though I have the volume muted :)
[10:52] <popey> irrational, I know
[10:52] <gmb> popey: Which guy?
[10:52] <gmb> There's more than one.
[10:52] <daubers> gmb: Yeah, there is that. I quite like the UI in FCP tbh, didn't really get on with CS5
[10:52] <popey> the main guy, not the big lad
[10:52] <popey> he is too attractive :)
[10:52] <popey> annoyingly so
[10:52] <gmb> popey: This has been noted in our house.
[10:53] <popey> :)
[11:01] <czajkowski> so the wrong time to look back at this screen
[11:02] <gmb> czajkowski: Why? Was it our A/V data nerdout or was it popey dissing Chase Jarvis for his looks?
[11:03] <czajkowski> the latter
[11:03] <popey> felt compelled to check him out huh?
[11:06] <shauno> I wish people wouldn't use shortners in contexts that don't require brevity.  saves me the let-down of discovering it's a site that's blocked at work :(
[11:07] <andylockran> howdy guys
[11:08] <andylockran> is it possible to install ubuntu to a separate partition using wubi ?
[11:08] <andylockran> i.e. if I partition 200GB for Windows, I'm going to leave 300GB left on the disk for ubuntu..
[11:08] <andylockran> would I be able to install that using wubi
[11:08] <BigRedS> I imagine it'd have trouble online resizing ntfs
[11:09] <BigRedS> oh, pre-partitioned
[11:09] <andylockran> just a wubi question rather than ubuntu one
[11:09] <andylockran> as I can install using ubuntu usb, but wondering if wubi was capable
[11:10] <popey> why use wubi?
[11:10] <andylockran> good point
[11:10] <andylockran> didn't have a CD drive this morning
[11:11] <andylockran> but just nicked one from next door
[11:11] <andylockran> therefore, the point is moot
[11:11] <popey> \o/ petty theft
[11:11] <andylockran> cheers popey
[11:11] <popey> np
[11:11] <AlanBell> shauno: use ubunt.eu \o/
[11:11] <andylockran> next door = colleagues PC
[11:11] <shauno> AlanBell: it was the destination (youtube) that's blocked, not the shortener :)
[11:12] <popey> \o/ bypassing proxies
[11:12] <gord> \o/ toast
[11:13] <daubers> \o/ coffee
[11:13] <AlanBell> \o/ bourbon biscuits to go with coffee
[11:14] <gord> what? no. why would you buy bourbons when you could get custard creams?
[11:14] <popey> oooo ooo!
[11:14] <popey> I know this!
[11:15] <popey> chocolate
[11:15] <popey> also.. custard digestives..
[11:15] <shauno> I try not to push my luck with proxies too much .. I dread the day they notice that I stay connected to 443 for 12 hours at a time
[11:16] <andylockran> hmm, I'd quite like a custard creme at the moment
[11:16] <andylockran> good call
[11:16] <andylockran> looking forward to the ubuntu monospace font
[11:16]  * popey listens to a bit of ELO
[11:16] <andylockran> spend over 60% of my time in the terminal, so that'll make a nice little difference to me
[11:17] <popey> chaps..
[11:17] <popey> what shall we talk about on uupc on monday
[11:17] <popey> we have no segments lined up
[11:17] <andylockran> me
[11:17] <popey> need two 15min segs
[11:17] <popey> thats 10 seconds sorted
[11:17] <popey> how about the other 29 mins and 50 seconds
[11:17] <matti> ;]
[11:17] <BigRedS> This super phoronix patch and how it's going to cure the common cold
[11:17] <BigRedS> ;)
[11:17] <popey> :)
[11:17] <popey> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/readers-choice-awards-2010  is a possibility
[11:18] <X3N> hum, just did a dist-upgrade and now all my notes are missing... :\
[11:19] <BigRedS> popey: how unity's not as bad as everyone thinks it is? I've not listened for a little bit though, that might've been covered already.
[11:19] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SegmentIdeasFromTheCommunityForUUPC is also available :)
[11:19] <AlanBell> talk about winter survival
[11:20] <popey> :)
[11:20] <shauno> I'm trying to avoid the unity topic until they've changed whatever 3d framework it's using
[11:21] <X3N> it's using compiz now
[11:22] <popey> barely
[11:23] <shauno> the version in 10.10 puts more load on my video card than civ4  (based purely on how obnoxious the fan is)
[11:23] <popey> ouch
[11:24] <shauno> I believe there's changes expected there, hence the 'wait and see' :)
[11:24] <danfish> popey: openrespect.org as a segment?
[11:27] <AlanBell> The christmas party is more news than a topic of conversation really
[11:27] <popey> ooo yes, will add to events
[11:28] <AlanBell> incidentally, only 8 people signed up so far, come on people: http://ubunt.eu/c2
[11:28]  * daubers added it to the official "Matts allowed to do this" calender last night
[11:32] <AlanBell> and bringing Mrs Daubers too
[11:32] <daubers> AlanBell: Indeed
[11:32] <BigRedS> Argh. It feels like Thunderbirds deliberately being obtuse with its 'sensible' defaults
[11:33]  * X3N feels he is going to be representing the youth of today again at The Hub
[11:33] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:33] <popey> incoming!
[11:33] <davmor2> BigRedS: no it's just out to annoy you is it working?
[11:34] <AlanBell> I am not doing so well at getting wifey along to events. "will it be all your geeky friends" "yes" "I will give it a miss" :(
[11:34] <popey> AlanBell: i find it helps if i mention other non-geek women will be there
[11:35] <AlanBell> yeah, tried that too
[11:35] <finelytuned> my wife still struggles with the fact that i talk to people on irc about a os........ dare i tell her about the pod cast??
[11:35]  * davmor2 decides to nice to czajkowski causes it's Friday :D
[11:35] <popey> :)
[11:35]  * popey collapses
[11:36] <shauno> I always had that problem trying to explain why I was laughing at lugradio
[11:36] <davmor2> popey: I'm feeling Good so I'm spreading the feel good feeling
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: neutral good, chaotic good or lawful good?
[11:37] <davmor2> popey: mind you it could be the new pain killers
[11:37] <daubers> AlanBell: The missus came to the RAT and quite enjoyed herself
[11:37] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Generally good :D
[11:37] <popey> AlanBell: does your missus work?
[11:37] <AlanBell> popey: a few days a month at a local school
[11:37] <popey> ah excellent!
[11:38] <popey> my wife works at a school
[11:38] <popey> common interest :)
[11:38] <AlanBell> so it is
[11:38] <AlanBell> I will try again, we are owed loads of babysitting so that isn't an issue
[11:41] <BigRedS> davmor2: it's doing its job wonderfully :/
[11:46]  * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice cold water over davmor2 
[11:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: Ah can't ruin my day :P  /me gives czajkowski a hug
[11:49] <andylockran> what's the default virtualisation platform on ubuntu
[11:49] <andylockran> need to load up a virtual image of centos on my machine, and wondering what to use
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> kvm
[11:49] <andylockran> ok, thanks .
[11:50] <X3N> There isn't a default is also the answer
[11:50] <AlanBell> Virtualbox if you want accelerated graphics
[11:50] <AlanBell> !kvm
[11:50] <AlanBell> ^^ preferred
[11:50] <popey> ^^ AlanBell
[11:50] <danfish> virt-manager is a reasonable GUI for KVM
[11:51] <andylockran> looks like it needs hardware support
[11:51] <daubers> Your machine does need to support virtualisation at the HW level for kvm to work
[11:51] <andylockran> in teh cpu
[11:51] <andylockran> which unfortunately mine doesn#t
[11:51] <daubers> andylockran: Virtualbox
[11:51] <danfish> :(
[11:52] <danfish> not :( to virtualbox btw
[11:52] <andylockran> though vbox + oracle = future pain?
[11:52]  * daubers is currently installing an OSX server into VirtualBox
[11:52] <daubers> andylockran: You could use qemu if it still exists
[11:52] <andylockran> daubers: is breaking license conditions ?
[11:52] <daubers> !qemu
[11:52] <daubers> andylockran: It's on a mac!
[11:54]  * TheOpenSourcerer has OSX in VBox :-)
[11:54]  * AlanBell likes virt-manager +KVM for remote machines and virtualbox for local ones
[11:54]  * AlanBell now has a tuned piano
[11:55]  * DJones wonders if the piano player has also been tuned?
[11:56] <DJones> AlanBell: My wife is having lessons, we've got a piano downstairs which she practises on during the daytime, but evenings when I'm home, she uses a keyboard with a set of headphones (she says so I can't hear how bad she is)
[11:57] <jpds> Hmm, piano lessons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQOSB8TeAs
[11:57] <AlanBell> DJones: I was planning to get a keyboard with headphones but was feeling poor and got a piano on ebay for free (buyer collects)
[11:57] <AlanBell> apparently it is pre- 1935 with art-deco legs
[11:58] <DJones> AlanBell: Yeah, our keyboard was free from my Gran, and the piano came free from a friend who needed the space
[11:59] <danfish> AlanBell: nice - who's it made by?
[11:59] <czajkowski> well that's a bit bloody annoying few free events I want to go to in london and trying to register for them and the website is being a brat!
[12:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> They know who you are czajkowski :-D
[12:02] <danfish> AlanBell: if it's a Steinberg or Steinway from 1930's they can be v valuable
[12:03] <andylockran> Yeah, they're lovely.
[12:03] <andylockran> I have an old Zender of a great-great aunt.
[12:03] <andylockran> Nothing quite like an old piano.. heavy like you wouldn't believe though.
[12:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://blogs.techworld.com/on-the-frontline/2010/11/cisco-machismo-and-the-lan/index.htm
[12:04] <danfish> ooh ooh! Have a good old fashioned Cockney knee's up at the XMAS party :D
[12:05]  * TheOpenSourcerer 's wife's piano is a 1903 Bechstein parlour grand
[12:05] <DJones> danfish: Our church got rid of a steinway grand piano earlier this year for £2K, it was ruined by cold/damp etc, needed £25K of refurbishment and would be valued at £35K in good condition, we didn't have the £25K for refurb, so got rid before it rotted even more
[12:05] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: :(
[12:05] <hoover> hi folks
[12:06] <awilkins> Ok - evangelism opportunity here ( to a large gov dept! ).... our current software project has now breached the limit of the 32-bit JVM on windows for heap space ... so line manager has asked me to prepare some 64-bit Ubuntu LiveUSBs with the software installed to run on our nice beefy 4GB laptops ; I've already customized the iso and added a JDK so the software will run ; I've partitioned the thumb with a casper-rw
[12:06] <awilkins>  ; now I just need to know how to i) Set the keymap to uk on boot ii) automatically choose the new "persistent" menu config I stuck in the isolinux menu instead of the fancy try/install graphical prompt you get when you boot the maverick LiveCD.
[12:06] <danfish> DJones: bummer :(
[12:06] <DJones> danfish: Not so much, we didn't have anybody that could play it anyway :)
[12:07] <danfish> :)
[12:07] <danfish> awilkins: first things first - clone that line manager and send him my way
[12:07] <czajkowski> awilkins: nice
[12:08] <awilkins> danfish, Heheheh. I used to know how to do this too when the isolinux menu was all you got - the pretty gui is stumping me.
[12:09] <danfish> awilkins: does the usb disk creator in ubuntu do the persistent bit for you when you load in the iso?
[12:09] <AlanBell> danfish: it is a Rudohf Schuman which neither me, the piano tuner, or google have ever heard of
[12:09] <AlanBell> which either means it is a rare and valuable antique, or old and rubbish
[12:09] <danfish> hah
[12:10] <awilkins> danfish, the USB disk creator makes a loopback file ; I want a native ext3 partition (which I've done)
[12:10] <awilkins> danfish, The persistent bit works, just want to not have to manually do anything.
[12:10] <danfish> ah ok
[12:11] <awilkins> I don't even want to see the try/install prompt because some numpty will push "install" and trash his laptop
[12:11] <awilkins> (horrible full-disk encryption, lots of explaining to ICT services)
[12:11] <gord> load a translation that replaces install with "launch angry godzilla bee's"
[12:12] <danfish> understandable
[12:13] <danfish> putting a postit note on the screen where the "install" button appears probably isn't going to work either
[12:13] <gord> honestly the live stuff is a tricky thing that you need specialist knowledge on, best asking the guys that build the cd
[12:14] <awilkins> Do you know which channel they hang out in?
[12:15] <danfish> awilkins: I might be missing the point, but why not just do a full install onto a usb stick then clone the stick?
[12:15] <awilkins> danfish, this may also be an option.
[12:15] <awilkins> Probably runs faster.
[12:17] <gord> awilkins, i'm being told that #ubuntu-release is the best place to ask, its where the release team live, they set up the iso so they know whats going on
[12:18] <czajkowski> gord: you're rather useful to have in here ;)
[12:18] <awilkins> gord, Thanks for asking for me
[12:18] <andylockran> gord is a useful person to know.
[12:19] <andylockran> installing maverick on my desktop for the first time
[12:19] <andylockran> like the new installer
[12:19] <awilkins> I like the way it downloads updates in the background
[12:19] <andylockran> can't help but notice it's taking quite a bit longer than older versions though - or maybe that's just me
[12:20] <awilkins> andylockran, Are you running it from a CD or a USB?
[12:21]  * awilkins remotes the sensitive Windows drive from his laptop to prevent grub-related accidents to the encryption bootloader
[12:24] <andylockran> awilkins: CD
[12:24] <danfish> awilkins: they are installing that junk here next week :(
[12:25] <awilkins> danfish, Lucky you. The encrypted usb thumbs are rubbish too - all done in software. Cost extortionate money.
[12:25] <andylockran> got a mac keyboard, and bought a new mouse this morning
[12:26] <andylockran> logitech mx512 or something like that
[12:26] <andylockran> 518
[12:26] <awilkins> The only advantages are someone to blame and central key escrow.
[12:26] <danfish> awilkins: already got one of those. £120 I think for a 2gb drive
[12:27] <andylockran> just ordered an entropykey for more entropy on my virtual servers
[12:28] <awilkins> danfish, Whhhhhhhhaaaaattttttt. They must hit you with more of a markup
[12:28] <awilkins> danfish, Our internal purchase form says £65 for those, I've heard verbal quotes of £95
[12:28] <awilkins> My price ; 5 quid for a 2GB USB stick, nothing for Truecrypt.
[12:29] <andylockran> hmm, uptime on my maverick install has just hit 60 minutes :s
[12:29] <awilkins> I might charge oooh 15 quid if I wrote a few scripts to automate formatting them and copy the keyblocks to an escrow server.
[12:29] <danfish> awilkins: yup - our it guys seem to take the list price, double it and pass it on
[12:30] <danfish> awilkins: having someone to blame is the name of the game alright
[12:30] <awilkins> danfish, My assertion that they are rubbish is based on ; they consist of two partitions, one unencrypted that contains a small util that mounts the encrypted partition. One encrypted.
[12:31] <danfish> ...and they can't be read in linux
[12:31] <danfish> AFAIK
[12:31] <awilkins> They do not have hardware encryption like an Ironkey.
[12:31] <awilkins> You must install drivers for them because non-admin users cannot load drivers in Windows
[12:31] <awilkins> So they are equal to truecrypt in most respects
[12:31] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236580
[12:31] <popey> ooooooo
[12:32] <awilkins> perrty
[12:32] <awilkins> I think they also charge a per-seat license for the driver that stops you writing to unencrypted USB thumbs
[12:33] <andylockran> my install appears to have hung :(
[12:33] <danfish> ironkey should have got that contract tbh
[12:33] <awilkins> danfish, Seeing the prices of Ironkeys on Dabs, I'm not sure they make enough margin to proffer a really effective bribe.
[12:34] <danfish> awilkins: so you have to pay to have functionally removed from your PC. Craziness
[12:34] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236579
[12:34] <popey> with no windows 7
[12:35] <awilkins> popey, Wow, a price differential that actually reflects the price of an OEM windows license
[12:35] <danfish> popey: that's more tempting
[12:35] <awilkins> "Linpus linux"
[12:35] <awilkins> Sounds like an infection
[12:35] <awilkins> "Sorry, can't come into work today, I'm oozing linpus
[12:36] <andylockran> nope, unhung now... gd gd
[12:36] <andylockran> weird.
[12:36] <andylockran> no action for circa 20 mins
[12:36] <danfish> awilkins: from where ? :D
[12:37] <awilkins> Mine just crashed because of a disk failure... given it's a flash drive, that does not full me with confidence
[12:37] <awilkins> El-cheapo 8GB flash drives are cheap for a reason, it seems
[12:38] <finelytuned> popey: to the unknowing public who might look at them 2 pages, they could think that they are getting so much more with the windows one, due the the amount of stuff listed under software
[12:38] <popey> they get a bigger disk!
[12:39] <awilkins> finelytuned, This is part of what produces a higher return rate for Linux machines - shame that MS like to yell about what is effectively uninformed buyers
[12:39] <awilkins> I suppose Windows needs a bigger disk
[12:40] <awilkins> I find a 60GB partition barely adequate for Vista and up
[12:40] <directhex> awilkins: windows 7 is about 10 gig smaller than vista
[12:41] <awilkins> directhex, Or does it just report disk consumption better - I know a lot of the apparent consumption is actually hardlinked files
[12:41] <popey> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/ubuntu-running-on-galaxy-tab/
[12:41] <directhex> awilkins: i think it's actually smaller. vista carries LOADS of duplicate libraries with slightly different versions, 7 has a clever way to make one lib with multiple overlays
[12:41] <awilkins> Shiny. Shame the Tab is so expensive
[12:42] <awilkins> directhex, I had the RC version until they canned it
[12:42] <awilkins> directhex, I liked it better than Vista - but not enough to pay for 7
[12:43] <directhex> i thought it was worth £40
[12:44] <awilkins> directhex, Plus all the hassle of reinstalling it, a lot of your games, etc. I only really use it for games now.
[12:44] <awilkins> Steam games are fine but a lot of them whine and moan when their DRM components disappear
[12:45] <awilkins> Excellent, my parcel is here
[12:45] <awilkins> Including complete Farscape box set.. there goes my productivity for a month or three
[12:47] <danfish> including the peacekeeper wars?
[12:51] <awilkins> Indeed
[12:52] <danfish> sweet
[12:52] <awilkins> Plus ; displayport / VGA adapter. No longer will my Linux system at work be relegated to a mere 1 monitors.
[12:53] <awilkins> And ; fast kettle. Because waiting for tea is wrong.
[12:58] <finelytuned> this is a ramdom question but does anyone know how many schools run open source software?
[12:59] <popey> nope
[12:59] <popey> how can anyone possibly know
[12:59] <popey> well, other than asking them all :)
[13:00] <finelytuned> like i said totally random
[13:04] <DJones> This is not on, BBC headline "Gentoo penguin born in Australia", Never mind that, where's the Ubuntu penguin born in South Africa http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11796080?
[13:05] <directhex> http://i.imgur.com/iq6Fu.jpg
[13:05] <bigcalm> popey: I blame you for getting me interested in minecraft. I'm still in bed, playing on my laptop
[13:06] <popey> :)
[13:06] <DJones> directhex: My parents have just come bax from Oz, they've got an even better picture than that, looks like its the same animal, just even more gross
[13:07] <DJones> s/bax/back
[13:11] <gord> geez
[13:11]  * popey tickles gord 
[13:12] <gord> royal mail tracking has three states, "we do not have your item" "our item is somewhere in our network" "we delivered your item"
[13:13] <screen-x> gord: so your powerline ethernet adapters are still in state 2?
[13:13] <gord> yes
[13:13] <screen-x> :(
[13:13] <gord> last updated three days ago, it doesn't take three days to go from wales to crewe
[13:14] <czajkowski> wow
[13:14] <czajkowski> gord: perhaps they opened the package saw how much fun it was and decided to keep it
[13:14] <awilkins> I think this USB drive is a pile of rubbish.
[13:15]  * screen-x is also attempting to leave wales
[13:15] <awilkins> 'cause now installs are failing because perl is broken.
[13:15] <evilchristel> aww why would you want to leave wales?
[13:15] <czajkowski> but the welsh are nice
[13:15] <czajkowski> well the accent more than anything really
[13:15] <czajkowski> and  RUGBY :D
[13:15] <gord> nevermind, i now have a mince pie and Hey Eugine by Pink Martini playing, everything is well again
[13:15] <awilkins> Knew a girl from North Wales at med school. Could only understand her when we were both drunk.
[13:16] <screen-x> awilkins: haha
[13:16] <czajkowski> awilkins: lol
[13:16] <evilchristel> haha
[13:16] <screen-x> I do know plenty of nice welsh people, I'm just having issues with a few troublesome ones :(
[13:16] <czajkowski> I just nod and smile it's a lovely accent
[13:17] <czajkowski> evilchristel: hello darling
[13:17] <screen-x> having said that, the trouble is in wales, that doesn't necessairly mean the trouble makers are welsh..
[13:17] <gord> never had any trouble with welsh accents myself, its nice :)
[13:28] <kazade> funniest picture ever: http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbfzyy2oc61qzlfumo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1290256133&Signature=W7ToDAICiEYXDm4l%2BVPg08FVxzc%3D
[13:29] <kazade> sorry, had to share that :)
[13:29] <BigRedS> kazade: That's awesome!
[13:30] <evilchristel> heya czajkowski me love! a letter arrived for you!
[13:31] <czajkowski> ohh
[13:31] <czajkowski> evilchristel: can you open it and let me know what it is please.
[13:31] <czajkowski> can't be a bill :)
[13:32] <andylockran> wahey - maverick installed
[13:36] <andylockran> internet connection here is awful mind
[13:40] <shauno> sometimes I swear the ladies in the canteen are trying to fatten me up
[13:40] <jpds> shauno: Yes, they're trying to feed you.
[13:41] <andylockran> any ideas
[13:41] <andylockran> will just stop during download
[13:41] <andylockran> if I cancel and restart then it'll be fine
[13:41] <kazade> anyone know of a program that can shove (L)GPL headers into a directory full of source files?
[13:41] <popey> cp
[13:41] <andylockran> kazade: sed ?
[13:41] <BigRedS> sed?
[13:41] <kazade> heh
[13:42] <kazade> well, ok that would do it
[13:42] <daubers> What they sed
[13:42] <popey> That's what she sed.
[13:42]  * kazade doesn't really know how to use sed
[13:42]  * daubers gets his coat
[13:42] <jpds> kazade: cat lgpl-template.txt sauce.cpp > result.cpp
[13:42]  * AlanBell tickles czajkowski 
[13:43] <kazade> jpds, oh cool
[13:43] <BigRedS> for i in `ls`; do cat boilerplate $i > tmp ; mv tmp $i; done
[13:43] <BigRedS> perhaps with the semicolons in different placesi
[13:44] <kazade> thx BigRedS I'll try taht
[13:44] <kazade> *that
[13:49] <kazade> BigRedS, worked a charm!
[13:51] <czajkowski> no tickles
[13:51] <BigRedS> Wow. I got bash right first time! :)
[13:52] <kazade> BigRedS, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kazade/platformation/trunk/revision/28
[13:54] <BigRedS> kazade: I expect to see my name under 'contributors' ;)
[13:54] <kazade> indeed ;)
[13:58] <andylockran> evolution on maverick is just unusable.
[14:00] <gord> it is?
[14:00] <gord> seems fine here
[14:00] <gord> are  you using imap+? if your not using imap+ you should be using it
[14:01] <andylockran> I'm using imap
[14:02] <andylockran> wil l switch to imap+
[14:02] <andylockran> what's the difference?
[14:03] <daubers> awesumsauce
[14:03] <daubers> imap+ is threaded (I believe... certainly acts that way)
[14:03]  * BigRedS still wants an imap client that lets him instruct it to only download the latest X messages
[14:04] <BigRedS> Well, I have one. But it's quite clunky. More imap clients should honour imap
[14:08] <popey> does gmail support imap+ ?
[14:10] <andylockran> cheers for that tip Gord - really improved it! :)
[14:16] <davmor2> popey: try it :D
[14:17] <shauno> I didn't think imap+ was something that needed to be specifically supported.  just a better rewrite of the imap module for evo, but they haven't expired the old one (yet) because it's tried & trusted
[14:19] <popey> My bosses wife is pregnant with their 9th child.
[14:19] <awilkins> kazade, Extra tip - sponge
[14:19] <awilkins> kazade, cat license.txt source.cpp | sponge source.cpp
[14:19] <finelytuned> wow 9 children........ i have 3 they keep me busy all the time lol
[14:19] <daubers> popey: 9????
[14:20] <popey> they want 13
[14:20] <daubers> 13???
[14:20] <popey> yup
[14:20] <popey> well.. _she_ wants 13
[14:20] <daubers> Do they want to generate some kind of family choir in the hills of austria?
[14:20] <czajkowski> what
[14:20] <popey> :)
[14:20] <czajkowski> sweet jebus mary and holy saint jack daniels
[14:20] <danfish> 13 - rugby league team
[14:20] <finelytuned> is it for a family football team or something?
[14:20] <shauno> cztab .. well there's names for half of them
[14:21] <czajkowski> popey: were any of them twins or anything
[14:21] <popey> nope
[14:21] <daubers> shauno: Hugh, Pew, Barney, McGrew, Cuthburt, Dibble and Grub?
[14:21] <shauno> someone really should take mercy on them and buy them a TV
[14:25] <kazade> awilkins, ah cool thanks
[14:25] <kazade> awilkins, so no need for the tmp file with sponge I assume?
[14:30] <awilkins> kazade, Nope, I did exactly the same top-license-shoving exercise with it a few days ago
[14:36] <andylockran> yo.
[14:36] <andylockran> what's the view called where all the windows get tiled next to each other
[14:36] <andylockran> and how can I get that setup?
[14:37] <andylockran> hostname
[14:37] <andylockran> dmesg
[14:37] <andylockran> oops
[14:41] <awilkins> andylockran, try win-E
[14:42] <andylockran> er.. that's not so good with 16 virtual desktops :p
[14:42] <awilkins> Heh, I put them in more than one row and it improves
[14:42] <andylockran> but yeah - thanks :)
[14:45] <daubers> hmmm... just found all the tapes with oggcamp stuff on them
[14:45]  * daubers really wants a tapeless camera
[14:50] <evilchristel> czajkowski: its a questionnaire from your bank wanting your feedback on your experience of opening an account with them!
[14:50] <evilchristel> (how peculiar, my bank never sends me questionnaires like that) :(
[14:52] <czajkowski> evilchristel: oh good I can tell them they told me I wasn  set up for online banking and I wasn't which was rather confusing
[14:52] <czajkowski> evilchristel: thank you
[14:53] <evilchristel> <3
[15:02] <ikonia> evilchristel: 2 days on the trot.....what a treat
[15:06] <lowrr> hi
[15:06] <lowrr> for mail/web servers  does ubuntu auto configure it for you
[15:06] <lowrr> or it needsto be done like in fedora and stuff
[15:06] <popey> depends what config you want :)
[15:07] <screen-x> lowrr: some config is done through the package manager, some will have to be done with an editor.
[15:07] <lowrr> but usually is it all set
[15:08] <screen-x> lowrr: for example, when apt installs apache it is all ready, but you'll have to create config files if you want virtual hosts.
[15:10] <lowrr> ic
[15:10] <screen-x> 555?
[15:14] <screen-x> screen-x: http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[15:15] <Azelphur> Anyone on Ubuntu care to click "I have this problem too." https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/765355 ?
[15:16] <Azelphur> It really makes Firefox unusable, it's been a problem for ages too -.-
[15:18] <BigRedS> Azelphur: that's also a long-standing brokenness on tbird
[15:18] <Azelphur> god alone knows why they don't fix it :(
[15:19] <Azelphur> BigRedS: evolution has it really bad too
[15:19] <Azelphur> chrome works fine \o/
[15:19] <diplo> Submitted :)
[15:19] <BigRedS> I'd imagine it's only an issue on Ubuntu's dark themes - I think everybody else still uses light coloured themes
[15:19] <Azelphur> indeed :p
[15:19] <BigRedS> but I don't want FF to stop using the GTK theme, I want it to use the whole of it
[15:19] <davmor2> Azelphur: doesn't effect me
[15:19] <BigRedS> both background *and* foreground
[15:20] <Azelphur> davmor2: are you using a dark theme?
[15:20] <Azelphur> davmor2: by dark I mean black background white text
[15:20] <davmor2> yeap
[15:20] <Azelphur> what theme?
[15:20] <davmor2> Azelphur: the default theme
[15:20] <Azelphur> that's not a dark theme
[15:21] <davmor2> Azelphur: How's it not dark?
[15:21] <Azelphur> ambiance is light
[15:21] <Azelphur> uhh, because it's ~80% white?
[15:22] <Azelphur> and the text is black?
[15:22] <davmor2> Azelphur: then you'll need to give an example
[15:22] <Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Divinorum?content=65533 is dark
[15:23] <Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Slickness+Black?content=73210 also dark :p
[15:23] <davmor2> Azelphur: Try with Epiphany if that has the same issue it's a fault in GTK and not firefox
[15:24] <Azelphur> davmor2: chrome doesn't suffer from it, trying epiphany now
[15:26] <Azelphur> davmor2: yea epiphany suffers but differently
[15:26] <davmor2> Azelphur: then it is likely to be GTK and not FF that is at fault
[15:27] <Azelphur> even though chrome doesn't have the problem?
[15:27] <evilchristel> ikonia: i just cant keep away
[15:29] <Azelphur> davmor2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/November%202010/2010-11-19-152908_1266x1143_scrot.png
[15:29] <davmor2> Azelphur: Epiphany is as close to gtk as you can get.  all the other browsers use aspects and modify things to suit their browsers so are 3-4 + layers away from gtk so it will either magnify a fault or get rid of it depending on how they twist it.
[15:29] <gord> Midori is just gtk + webkit like ephinany too i think
[15:31] <davmor2> Azelphur: so what you'll find is that Chrome is blatantly ignoring the gtk element for everything other than the title bar iirc
[15:32] <Azelphur> davmor2: it should do, otherwise you end up with a completely broken experience as you can see
[15:32] <Azelphur> gord: midori suffers from the problem too :(
[15:33] <davmor2> Azelphur: again the issue is with gtk,  if gtk fix the issue their end it fixes it for user across the board
[15:33] <Azelphur> davmor2: it's not, the problem is that gtk applies the theme to the page, and then the css in the page has it's own style too
[15:33] <Azelphur> at least I think
[15:34] <gord> Azelphur, run firefox in wine ;)
[15:34] <Azelphur> haha
[15:36] <davmor2> Azelphur: Yes so if GTK fix things their end it won't effect the browsers anymore,  there is a whole heap of these minor issues that annoy the living daylights out of users,  I'm hoping that GTK+3 will put pay to some if not all (It would be nice)
[15:37] <Azelphur> I guess
[16:02] <DJones> Ooh, UbuntuOne for Windows beta testing
[16:03] <popey> .net 4 :S
[16:05] <DJones> It'll be interesting to see how it compares with dropbox once it gets a final release
[16:07]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
[16:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: Why what did I do?
[16:08] <popey> DJones: "not as good" is my generaly opinion
[16:09] <gord> .net seems like an acceptable tech if your on windows
[16:09] <DJones> popey: That wouldn't surprise me with dropbox having a significant head start, but hopefully there'll be a good attempt at it anyway
[16:10] <gord> windows does install .net for you now right? you don't have to go off to some website to download it
[16:10] <Phineas> hi guys
[16:10] <popey> *shrug*
[16:10] <danfish> gord: w7 yes, xp no
[16:10] <Phineas> have i spelt my nick right
[16:11] <DJones> Phineas: Nope, thats not how you spell "nickname" :)
[16:11] <gord> i don't have a reason to use ubuntu one on windows, so i guess this is the first beta of ubuntu one that i won't take part in :(
[16:11] <Phineas> DJones,  i mean my nickname , Phineas
[16:12] <shauno> no mac client?
[16:12] <gord> not yet
[16:13] <Phineas> have i spelt my nickname right as in my nickname Phineas
[16:13]  * AlanBell just made a 29GB zip file from 140,000 files totalling 38GB
[16:13] <AlanBell> and nothing broke
[16:13] <gord> AlanBell, okay now lmza it!
[16:14] <AlanBell> I was going to encrypt it with rot13
[16:14] <popey> or lzma
[16:14]  * Phineas made one totalling about 56GB
[16:14] <gord> lamaz! whatever :P
[16:15] <Phineas> what its true
[16:16] <Phineas> brb
[16:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] LibreOffice: Document Foundation Steering Committee Public Phone Conference 20-Nov-2010 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-document-foundation-steering-committee-public-phone-conference-20-nov-2010
[16:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooooh ZBosons observed for the first time at the LHC: https://twitter.com/#!/CERN/statuses/5653178590699521
[16:20] <Phineas> did my away message work
[16:21] <AlanBell> and issyl0 gets applauded at European level https://twitter.com/#!/NeelieKroesEU/status/5651141715042304
[16:22] <Phineas> did my away message work
[16:22] <Phineas> ?
[16:22] <AlanBell> !away
[16:22] <issyl0> AlanBell: I know, I just saw that! :O
[16:22] <popey> test your away messages elsewhere Phineas
[16:22] <davmor2> Phineas: I don't know you're not away
[16:22] <AlanBell> Phineas: didn't see anything
[16:23] <AlanBell> issyl0: told a customer about govspark last week
[16:23] <issyl0> AlanBell: oh?
[16:23] <Phineas> popey,  sorry if my away message is 'noisy'
[16:24] <popey> Phineas: i havent seen any away message from you at all, lets keep it that way
[16:24] <czajkowski> popey: AlanBell http://ossg.bcs.org/2010/09/30/open-source-as-open-innovation-creating-and-capturing-value-in-value-networks-london-021210/
[16:24] <Phineas> popey, :)
[16:24] <popey> thanks czajkowski
[16:24]  * popey is going out in london that evening
[16:24] <czajkowski> ahh
[16:25] <czajkowski> said I'd go it's free event and looks interesting
[16:25] <Phineas> sounds intresting
[16:27]  * AlanBell checks diary
[16:28] <Phineas> aparently there are no guidelines in this channel
[16:28] <popey> feel free to test that theory Phineas
[16:28] <czajkowski> Phineas: what kind of guidelines?
[16:29] <davmor2> Phineas: yes there are the same as every other channel related to Ubuntu
[16:29] <DJones> !guidelines
[16:29] <Phineas> oh i see
[16:31] <gord> huh, i calculated that its gonna take 13 days of constant uploading at my max speed before my ubuntu one music will finish =\
[16:31]  * gord cherry picks instead
[16:32] <popey> gord: go somewhere with free wifi?
[16:32] <gord> i don't actually know anywhere here that has free wifi, everything is pay for and slooooowww
[16:32] <AlanBell> gord: Millbank!
[16:33] <AlanBell> although that isn't *here* for most values of here
[16:33] <gord> maybe i could just take a usb drive and give it to the folks at millbank and tell them "this is what i want on ubuntu one, its quicker than syncing"
[16:33] <DJones> gord: How much have you got to upload?
[16:33] <davmor2> gord coffee shop
[16:33] <gord> 8gb, i have slow internet
[16:35] <DJones> heh, that could take a while even with faster broadband
[16:36] <gord> honestly cherry picking makes sense.like the rest of humanity 70% of my music collection is stuff i stopped listening to years ago
[16:36] <davmor2> DJones: 8gb is about 40 minutes
[16:38] <gord> just copying 500mb over wifi is gonna take ten minutes :(
[16:39] <gord> it is not uncommon for people to have better internet connections than i do wifi
[16:39] <danfish> where are the actual servers that serve ubuntu one? Just curious
[16:40] <gord> I imagine its a cloud tech that uses wherever is closet to you
[16:40] <gord> closest*
[16:40] <danfish> ok
[16:41] <popey> gord: could you move y'know, closer to the access point?
[16:41]  * gord points its *there*
[16:41]  * popey hands gord a cable
[16:42] <gord> right, i could of just ran some cable for a few minutes then got rid of it again, stop making me look stoopid :P
[16:42] <Phineas> gord,  makes me look smart
[16:44] <awilkins> I find that sometimes, uploads to DropBox happen faster than physically possible - I figure this is because someone already uploaded a file with the same SHA-1 hash
[16:45] <awilkins> I reckon that Ubuntu One could probably use the same thing with the music files
[16:45] <gord> isn't that... dangerous?
[16:45] <awilkins> If it does, you could upload your music collection in seconds
[16:45] <awilkins> Why is it dangerous?
[16:46] <andylockran> guys, any recommendations for a current affairs podcast
[16:46] <gord> its not completely infeasible that two files can share the same hash
[16:46] <awilkins> gord, True, but what about the same hash and same byte count? Or same MD5 and SHA-1?
[16:46] <popey> yup, they do that
[16:46] <awilkins> I'm assuming, like rsync, it does a cheap check backed up by a sure check
[16:48] <gord> makes sense, until sha1 is broken, but then we all have bigger problems ;)
[16:49] <daubers> sha1's been broken hasn't it? Isn't there someone who can break a sha1 in 15minutes or seomsuch?
[16:49] <awilkins> Varies depending on your meaning of "broken"
[16:49] <daubers> Well, easily brute forced in a reasonable time frame
[16:50] <popey> hmm, can you edit a shell script whilst its running?
[16:50] <awilkins> Broken as in "given an arbitrary sense document, find another with the same SHA-1" - pull the other one.
[16:50] <popey> and expect the line you change to be used? like in a dos batch file?
[16:50] <danfish> awilkins: the *real* reason dropbox is so fast is because they copy all your data when you first install it and then put a '.' in front of the file/folder name to hide it
[16:50] <popey> or does the file get fully read at start?
[16:51] <gord> popey, not unless the file is re-read, ie its been called again by another shell script or cron
[16:51] <popey> bum
[16:51] <gord> re-reading all the time would make it slooow
[16:51] <popey> see dos batch files :)
[16:51] <daubers> awilkins: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/18/amazon_cloud_sha_password_hack/
[16:52] <Phineas> popey,  bum?
[16:52] <popey> nvm
[16:53] <gord> daubers, given enough monkeys you can crack anything relatively quickly
[16:53] <gord> (see what i did there?)
[16:54] <awilkins> daubers, Yes, but he was "cracking"  hashes of unsalted 6 char passwords.
[16:54] <daubers> gord: If I had an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters, I could make a killing in the fertilizer business
[16:54] <daubers> awilkins: Didn't really read it that carefully..... obviously misunderstood what I did read
[16:54] <gord> basically, you can always defend against brute force attacks easily when doing online communication, to the point where it can be ignored
[16:54] <awilkins> Anyone who uses an unsalted 6 char password hash in their implementation should not be writing security systems
[16:57] <awilkins> What the story is is really "man demonstrates that renting enough computers to calculate a rainbow table really fast is possible"
[17:00]  * awilkins now has a ludicrous amount of storage because he bought  a new drive because he thought the old one had failed when it was the power electronics in his external caddy
[17:01] <awilkins> What to do with 3.5TB of disk...
[17:01] <directhex> awilkins: you can now do GPU-powered cloud machines, not just regular VMs. someone used a GPU-powered password cracker on a cloud box, for very little money, storming through all passwords up to X characters long
[17:02] <awilkins> directhex, Mmmm, CUDA. Tasty.
[17:04] <gord> still have yet to find a real use for cuda outside the specialist market. would love to use it for something day to day
[17:04] <popey> ffmpeg
[17:04] <popey> (I would use it if it supported ffmpeg)
[17:05] <popey> or vice versa
[17:05] <Phineas> ff hujamaflip
[17:08] <Phineas> oh that converter thing FFMPEG
[17:11] <directhex> omg it's gohometime
[17:11] <Phineas> is it?
[17:12] <awilkins> Here in the UK, yes. Unless your boss is a git.
[17:14] <awilkins> Whee, I like eSata
[17:14] <finelytuned> poets day surely today
[17:14] <popey> i like esata when it isnt a cheap crappy nvidia chipset
[17:14] <awilkins> Ah. I have an MCP55
[17:14] <awilkins> Is that bad?
[17:15] <gord> nvidia do esata?
[17:15] <gord> crazy world we live in
[17:15] <awilkins> Well, it's not esata as such
[17:15] <awilkins> It's an eSata blanking plate attached to my internal SATA controller
[17:15] <awilkins> Which is the integrated nVidia one
[17:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Javascript Q: How to I get a result set, returned to a callback function, back to the original function that called the callback?
[17:16] <awilkins> I had problems writing large files to it last month but figure it was down to the same thing that brought the drive to a halt this month - failing power electronics
[17:16] <awilkins> I shall have another go at writing large files and see if I get the same errors
[17:22] <awilkins> popey, Aaand, there you go
[17:22] <awilkins> popey, Yes, same thing. Lots of ata3.00: failed command: WRITE FPDMA QUEUED
[17:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Funny, but a pretty big whack, whack ooops at the same time: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Free-ClamWin-virus-scanner-moves-most-of-Windows-into-quarantine-1139430.html
[17:24] <awilkins> People will be making a joke of that for aaaages - "ClamWin thought Windows was a virus! Chortle chortle, etc"
[17:24] <shauno> TheOpenSourcerer: closed: notabug
[17:30] <Phineas> bye
[17:30] <Phineas> bye all
[17:41] <awilkins> popey, I think your assesment is correct, the nVidia SATA controller can't cope with eSata drives now, can it.
[17:42] <awilkins> A good job these have USB ports too
[17:43]  * awilkins crawls under his desk to rewire stuff
[17:43]  * awilkins is mumbling, Yosemite Sam style
[17:44] <danfish> I've an esata port on my samsung nvidia lappy. Seems to work ok so far.
[17:45] <Ng> esatap!
[17:45] <Ng> awesome idea, only saw it today, want it!
[17:46] <jpds> I keep readind "esatap" in Spanish.
[17:46] <jpds> Let's just invent esata-ng.
[17:46]  * Ng does a :( at jpds 
[17:46] <Ng> literally
[17:47] <jpds> Ng: I saw that!
[17:47] <Ng> good!
[17:47]  * popey tickles Ng 
[17:47] <Ng> !
[17:47] <jpds> popey: Not literally though.
[17:47] <popey> No, _actually_
[17:47] <popey> bah
[17:47]  * popey farts on apple
[17:47]  * awilkins removes a hard drive from some gravy
[17:48] <awilkins> Happily, not enough gravy to enter any orifices
[17:48] <popey> mmmm gravy
[17:48] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[17:48]  * TheOpenSourcerer is shocked to hear popey scorn the Apple.
[17:48] <Ng> TheOpenSourcerer: it's ok, I've alerted Cupertino, the turtleneck ninjas are on their way
[17:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bangers and Mash for Dinner here :-) With Gravy no doubt.
[17:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone??? "Javascript Q: How to I get a result, that is returned to a callback function, back to the original function that called the callback?"
[17:50] <awilkins> I find it discomforting that the "safely remove drive" option in Ubuntu so often throws an error
[17:50] <awilkins> "Safely" and "Bad stuff happened" are incongruous
[17:51] <jpds> awilkins: Was the drive in gravy at any point in its life?
[17:52] <awilkins> jpds, Very few of the drives I've seen that option throw an error with were ever in gravy
[17:52] <awilkins> Of course, the best ones come in a sealed ziplok bag of the gravy from Mr Brains Faggots.
[17:53]  * awilkins now has 3.5 TB of storage hooked up to his USB ports
[17:53] <awilkins> Bwahahaha, etc
[17:55] <danfish> popey: talking of food, how's the recipe section on the website going?
[17:56]  * BigRedS pictures a vast auditorium with a single door leading into/out of it
[17:56] <popey> heh
[17:56] <AlanBell> danfish: ooh, contributions please
[17:56] <AlanBell> Circle of Food
[17:56] <danfish> np - is a logon needed?
[17:57]  * AlanBell will create a danfish logon
[17:57] <danfish> yeah!
[17:57] <danfish> I'll put tonight's experimental chorizo sausage toad in the hole recipe on :)
[17:58] <AlanBell> I think we should have an ubuntuish theme to the recipes
[17:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: http://www.opensourcefood.com/people/opensourcerer/recipes/sunday-roast-toad-in-the-hole-and-roast-potatoes
[17:58] <AlanBell> so something including a circle of friends
[17:58] <popey> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/category/recipes/  AHEM!
[17:58] <AlanBell> or the colour #dd4814
[17:58] <jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: Should of been opensaucefood.com.
[17:59] <danfish> popey: that can be desert 2nite
[17:59] <AlanBell> that is an awesome recipe popey
[18:00] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: nice. The chorizo may add a certain 'je ne sais quoi'
[18:00] <danfish> or it'll probably just bollocks up a nice dish
[18:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed danfish, indeed.
[18:01] <AlanBell> didn't know chorizo was made of them
[18:01] <awilkins> I never know how to partition external drives.
[18:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Perhaps a big knokwurst would be better?
[18:01] <awilkins> As long as it's not the one you store the Fallen Madonna in
[18:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> with ze big ...
[18:01] <danfish> AlanBell: only the best spanish bollocks of course ;)
[18:02] <awilkins> ... dumpling
[18:02] <awilkins> s
[18:03] <danfish> german market coming to town this year. Sausage stands everywhere normally.
[18:03] <awilkins> There's one in Leeds too
[18:05]  * AlanBell may try to make the popey cake in an oggcamp mug for photographing
[18:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Put the camera in the microwave for the best images :-D
[18:06] <awilkins> I have a nice Ubuntu mug it might go nicely in
[18:06] <Mez> damnit - memory is failing me.
[18:06] <Mez> What's that famous geek toy/gift/etc site?
[18:07] <AlanBell> thinkgeek
[18:07] <awilkins> thinkgeek.com?
[18:07] <Mez> thats it :D
[18:07] <BigRedS> there's a uk one, too. firebox?
[18:07]  * Mez had a brain fart
[18:07] <BigRedS> something like that
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> iwantoneofthose.com?
[18:07] <Mez> BigRedS: firebox is my company's main competitor.
[18:07] <awilkins> Replica batmobile : £120,000
[18:07] <awilkins> A biiiit much
[18:08] <Mez> BigRedS: and they don't do the cool stuff that thinkgeek do (I'm remembering the mana potions)
[18:08] <AlanBell> and unicorn meat
[18:08] <Mez> AlanBell: yeah - unicorn meat got me dumped :)
[18:08] <AlanBell> http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/wacky-edibles/e5a7/
[18:09] <Mez> AlanBell: when you give unicorn meat as a present to your vegan, animal loving girlfriend... it doesn't go well.
[18:09] <Mez> "But you like Unicorns, right - and it's not like they're real"
[18:09] <Mez> :)
[18:09] <Mez> (yes, I was purposefully trying to get dumped)
[18:11] <Mez> aw what?
[18:11] <Mez> They no longer ship caffeine outside of US ? :(
[18:11] <AlanBell> http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2010/06/officially-our-bestever-cease.html
[18:11] <danfish> AlanBell: login received :)
[18:12] <Mez> AlanBell: old.
[18:13] <AlanBell> I am
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> That is a somewhat relative statement AlanBell
[18:13] <awilkins> The stuffed dismembered unicorn in the can is genius
[18:14] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: true, I am not *that* old :)
[18:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks. :-(
[18:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Time for bangers, mash then Pub!
[18:33] <docsy> anyone about had issues with flash since updating recently (updates within 10.10 x64bit)
[18:54] <finelytuned> ok gotta do dinner bbl o/
[19:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Libreoffice Beta-3 now available on Debian experimental repositories. - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-beta-3-now-available-debian-experimental-repositories
[20:05] <danfish> listening to the radio on the way home Ireland are trying to ease the fiscal problems by sending out free cheese. czajkowski - you're away for a week the the place falls apart ;)
[20:06] <czajkowski> ugh don't get me started
[20:07] <jpds> It's too late for that..
[20:09] <danfish> where did they get the money to buy all that cheese?
[20:09] <Azelphur> danfish: I feel the need to post http://www.splicd.com/2YEfXE2tzyg/46/49
[20:09] <danfish> heh
[20:09] <Azelphur> drunk on cheese \o/
[20:11] <DJones> danfish: Makes you appreciate the value, we (UK etc) lends Ireland £xB, they lend us czajkowski, I would say thats money well spent
[20:12] <DJones> Worth every penny/cent
[20:12] <danfish> DJones: davmor2 may well disagree.
[20:13] <KrimZon> how do i set up my wireless card on ubuntu server?
[20:14] <KrimZon> i think the drivers ought to be working but it doesn't seem to want to connect
[20:14] <DJones> danfish: Thats just bloody mindedness :)
[20:14] <danfish> DJones: true. Mind you he's been nice recently
[20:15] <danfish> KrimZon: what wireless card? also using WPA etc?
[20:15] <KrimZon> danfish: asus pci-g31, wpa-psk
[20:15] <KrimZon> wpa2 rather
[20:16] <KrimZon> i can iwlist scan and get stuff
[20:16] <KrimZon> just can't yet ping anything
[20:16] <KrimZon> i want to get it bridged with the ethernet eventually
[20:17] <danfish> KrimZon: my advice would be to check out wicd-ncurses
[20:17] <KrimZon> what's that?
[20:17] <danfish> !info wicd-ncurses
[20:17] <danfish> nuts
[20:17] <KrimZon> oh, i'm using lucid still
[20:18] <danfish> wicd is an alternative network manager
[20:18] <danfish> !info wicd-curses
[20:18] <danfish> that's better
[20:19] <KrimZon> will it support bridging?
[20:19] <KrimZon> and will it work on a server with nobody logged in?
[20:20] <danfish> re bridging - not sure
[20:20] <danfish> it does work with no-one logged in
[20:21] <danfish> mind you, I've never had great success with getting wireless working on a headless server, but it's been a while since I last tried
[20:32] <KrimZon> hmm, can't get wicd-curses to ask for the passphrase
[20:33] <KrimZon> ah, wicd doesn't support vpn either, which i need
[20:35] <danfish> Did you set the password for the individual network using the right arrow and enable encryption?
[20:56] <danfish> ooh - trailer for xmas dr who on children in need. nice
[21:10] <AlanBell> who brought these last year? http://picasaweb.google.com/alanbelltolc/UbuntuUK#5418429663045996818
[21:11] <finelytuned> evenong all
[21:12] <finelytuned> evening even :)
[21:14] <danfish> AlanBell: the recipe/technique needs to be on the website
[21:15] <AlanBell> it does :)
[21:16] <AlanBell> I think the recipe is: purchase mince pices, add sugar and cinamon using a circle of friends cut from paper as a mask
[21:16] <danfish> chorizo toad in hole got 9/10 from the wife - will post recipe 2moro
[21:17] <KrimZon> danfish: i couldn't see any options - need to get it on again
[21:17] <danfish> they do look a bit too perfect to be homemade
[21:21] <evilchristel> pff shop bought!
[21:21]  * AlanBell looks forward to sampling evilchristel's home made mince pies then
[21:21] <danfish> KrimZon: I think your requirements are beyond wicd. CLI config I think. Not really a personal strongpoint with wireless :(
[21:21] <evilchristel> AlanBell: :D
[21:22] <evilchristel> i shall make mince pies
[21:23] <KrimZon> maybe i'll just need to ask my landlady if i can get another phone socket fitted in the computer room
[21:43] <Nafallo> KrimZon: will you connection saturate the power plugs network then? :-)
[21:44] <KrimZon> powerline stuff is still expensive looking, but it's an option
[21:45] <KrimZon> maybe then i could try running a soft-ap from the server and route a firewalled guest wireless network
[21:45] <KrimZon> i've got it pinging the adsl router over wireless though
[21:45] <KrimZon> actually, full internet
[22:22] <KrimZon> i just realized, the whole lot doesn't have to be bridged - the bridge is only needed for the vpn to talk to the games machine
[22:24] <danfish> adios!
[23:07] <KrimZon> well... i've got it transfering files nicely