/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/19/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

TheMusoabogani: I really need to try and find some time to take a look at the low latency kernel, and see about getting it into natty.00:58
ScottLTheMuso, someone is supposed to prepare a procedure for doing that01:04
ScottLfrom the kernel team, hold on, i'll see if i can find who, just gotta look01:04
ScottLah yes, TheMuso , apw is supposed to make a procedure to get kernel variants into the archives01:08
ScottLhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours01:08
ScottLi'm feeling antsy about this01:08
TheMusoah ok.01:08
* ScottL wants to keep telling people, "we're running out of time people, we're running out of time"01:09
TheMusoHeh.01:09
ScottLi have so far managed not to do it ;)01:09
ScottLi believe persia expects something within the next week or so01:10
TheMusook01:15
persiaRather, I have been asked to notify someone able to escalate the issue within Canonical if there remains nothing the week past next.  Next week is expected to be slower, as both the person asking me to watch the specification and the person to whom they would escalate are expected to be distracted by the Thanksgiving holiday.01:25
ScottLpersia, it appears that gdebi is bringing in phonon...seems very strange01:55
ScottLhowever, i got interrupted as i was working on this by my kids fighting so i need to go back upstairs and confirm01:55
scott__scott@lucid-studio:~$ aptitude why phonon01:57
scott__i   gdebi-kde   Depends python-kde4 (>= 3.16.0-0ubuntu11)01:57
scott__i A python-kde4 Depends phonon (>= 4:4.5.2)      01:57
scott__that's the output01:57
scott__i was going to grep the seeds and see where this is coming in01:59
scott__and it appears that the dekstop seed is adding gdebi on line 10401:59
scott__very strange that including gdebi works itself into including phonon into ubuntustudio :/02:00
scott__hmmm, it would also appear that wacom-tools package is not in the repos anymore02:04
scott__ack, silly me, actually it's the 'install-package' package that is pulling in gdebi-kde02:24
scott__bleargh, i can't figure it out, it all looks like one big circular dependency at this point02:26
ScottLhi paultag03:24
persiaScottL, Find out what pulls gdebi-kde: it may be possible to pull gdebi instead (the GNOME GUI), and still satisfy the dependencies without pulling phonon.03:25
paultaggood evening there ScottL 03:31
scott__persia, it seems circular according to 'aptitude why gdebi-kde'03:34
scott__it depends on phyton-kde403:34
scott__which depends on kdebase-runtime03:34
scott__which *recommends* kubuntu-debug-installer03:34
scott__which depends on kpackagekit03:35
scott__which depends on software-properties-kde03:35
scott__which depends on install-package03:35
scott__which depends on gdebi-kde03:35
scott__my brain hurts03:35
TheMusoAfaik gdebi is going away, adn the software centre will manage deb installs from now on IIRC.03:36
persiaScottL, There's probably an entry into the circularity somewhere which could be diverted with either a package change or an alternate seeding.03:37
persia(finding it is tricky)03:37
persiaI suspect the path is something like dssi-vst -> wine1.2 -> kdebase-runtime03:38
persiaOnce we have kdebase-runtime, keeping KDE out gets hard.03:38
persia(another potential path is lmms-vst -> wine1.2 -> kdebase-runtime)03:38
persiaIf my guess is correct, it can be short-circuited with seeding of gnome-exe-thumbnailer, but there may be another path (and one wonders if VST is important enough to justify shipping WINE)03:40
scott__lmms-vst is not installed03:40
persiaIf Studio ships software-center, it is probably easier to not ship gdebi, and let software-center handle it.03:40
scott__software-center was not being installed because of a name change (ubuntu-software-center -> software-center)03:41
scott__howerver, i have updated the seeds for that03:41
persiaAnd you re-ran germinate, and the meta is still pulling phonon?03:41
scott__i haven't re-run anything tonight, nor pushed to bzr yet03:42
scott__i was hoping to track down some of this to try to fix it before doing that03:43
scott__however, i will be able to do so tomorrow night03:43
persiaI suspect it's the software-center rename that caused the issue.03:43
persiaBecause software-center wasn't present, germinate grabbed alternate stuff, and ended up pulling the KDE software management stack.03:44
scott__looking in synaptic for anything kde and seeing what is installed is kinda depressing :P03:45
scott__it would certainly be worth correcting03:45
persiaMy recommendation when working with seeds is to make one small change, and then reinvestigate after a germinate run.03:47
persiaTrying to fix several issues at the same time usually leads to confusion and extra work, although I know it feels more satisfying for most other sorts of work.03:48
persiaBut the output of seeds is, essentially, installed systems: it's hard to know precisely what the result of the change is without having the new output to check.03:48
persiaSame as if you're debugging the simple "#! /bin/sh\necho Hello Wolrd\n", it's easier to see the bug in the output than in the input, and it's worth testing (although it's *lots* easier to test the shell script)03:49
ScottLright, i'm stopping for tonight, i'll see about pushing to bzr later tonight though03:49
ScottLpersia, TheMuso , changes pushed to bzr04:03
ScottLhttps://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty04:04
ScottLcheck it as you will and tomorrow i'll see about updating the meta package04:05
persiaScottL, Thanks for the alert: I'll take a look in a few hours.  Note that the tasks will be updating automatically, so the next image run ought reflect a mix of the old and new.04:38
TheMusoScottL: Worth noting that your seed changes broke the build. :)06:57
TheMusoI'll see if I can find some time on the weekend to look them over.06:57
ScottLTheMuso, oh goodie :P12:01
ScottLTheMuso, i should have the meta updated and hopefully that will fix it no?12:01
ScottLquadrispro,  i believe phasex is in debian from  http://www.sysex.net/phasex/12:03
ScottLbut, my understanding is that development has stagnated12:03
quadrisproehy ScottL, yes it is from sysex.net12:04
ScottLquadrispro, however, there is a development branch here that seems to be fairly active http://disabled.github.com/phasex-dev/12:04
ScottLalthough the word "disbaled" in the URL is a little bothersome12:04
ScottLbut they've added lashd support among other things, so it at least seems to be more current that the sysex.net code, no?12:05
quadrisprojust a moment, I'm fixing a bug in flake, getting back soon12:05
ScottLquadrispro, no rush, just wanted to pass on the information that i ran across12:05
* ScottL is leaving for work, be on as scott-work in ~ 30 minutes12:07
TheMusoScottL: no12:54
TheMusoScottL: It appears you didn't get the syntax right somewhere, but I would need to look to be sure.12:54
TheMusoAnd I am aobut to go to bed.12:54
quadrisproscott-work, well, it seems up-to-date12:56
scott-workTheMuso: then i suppose i shouldn't rush to update the metapackage then12:59
scott-workquadrispro:  are you saying that the code in debian and the code for phasex-dev are the same?12:59
quadrisprono, just phasex-dev is the real upstream now13:00
quadrisproand I should get the code from that new source13:00
scott-workoh good :)13:01
quadrisproI'm working on an upload to experimental right now13:01
scott-workwow!  you move fast :P13:02
quadrispro:)13:02
scott-workit took me several weeks to only update that seeds, and i apparently still managed to break it :/13:02
quadrisproscott-work, ah! what's the problem with lmms? I've read on a cd-health check that uninstallable binaries get built :/13:04
scott-workquadrispro: i don't know...to be honest, i hadn't really looked until now13:08
* scott-work had changed some gmail settings and some studio emails goes to a folder i'm not used to looking at13:08
scott-workyet13:08
quadrisprook13:09
quadrispro0.12.0+m1 seems a good versioning...13:09
quadrisprommm13:09
scott-workquadrispro: it looks like lmms did build https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/lmms/+builds13:13
scott-workor at least build without any obvious errors13:13
quadrisproin fact, I've uploaded it some days ago13:13
scott-workthe log didn't seem to show anything untoward either, again at least in an obvious manner13:14
quadrisproscott-work, argh... upstream has included a debian/ dir!13:18
scott-workquadrispro:  is that bad because you didn't expect it or because they did it wrong?13:23
quadrispro1) I didn't expect it13:23
quadrispro2) they did wrong13:23
quadrispro:)13:23
quadrisprobtw, it is not a real issue, maybe the new upstream doesn't know that the package is already available in Debian/Ubuntu13:24
scott-workbut isn't _everything_ available in debian? ;)13:25
quadrisproalmost everything :)13:27
scott-workahck, puttoi13:28
scott-worki'm doing work here at work setting up standards13:28
scott-workbecause it hasn't been updated in almost fifteen years13:28
scott-workand now i'm dealing with this office and another remote office that does things completely different13:28
scott-workand it's been a very, very frustrating three months or so :(13:28
scott-workstandards for the drafting/detailing/designer department, i should say13:29
scott-workand since this industry is so singular, there aren't really any industry standards to leverage13:34
scott-workso i'm also fighting a cultural momentum because "this is the way we've done stuff for years"13:34
scott-workat least i manage to get them to install mediawiki and mysql on the servers though :)13:34
scott-workyay for open source13:34
quadrispro"this is the way we've done stuff for years" -> this reminds me.... mmmm... oh yes, my country13:36
scott-worklol, but i will bend everyone to my will <insert evil laughter>13:40
scott-worki jest, but i *can* make this happen, but it just takes enormous amounts of continual effort13:41
scott-workbut there is a certain amount of subduction where getting fabricated parts out the door and making money is more pressing and all these improvements get set to the side, which makes it hard to maintain momentum sometimes :/13:42
quadrisprosure, I understand13:43
scott-workbut i'm done venting and i feel much better now :)13:44
scott-workboy i hope that the.muse can sort the seeds, i feel really, really bad about that ;(13:45
scott-workthe email i saw that that my revision "wasn't a branch"13:46
quadrisproso we should wait for luke to fix it 13:49
* quadrispro has built phasex fine13:49
scott-workquadrispro:  i think luke still feels slightly responsible (being one of the most knowledgeable about the project) but it would be groovy if anyone fixed it13:56
scott-workjust as long as its fixed :)13:56
quadrisprosure14:02
quadrisproscott-work, phasex has too many beautiful presets14:02
scott-workquadrispro:  were you referring to the seeds getting fixed?14:03
scott-workquadrispro:  i haven't really played with phasex, i'm not much of a synthesizer guy, although i've played a bit following some youtube tutorials14:04
quadrisprono no, I'm about to upload phasex now :) so I'm having some testing on it, and I find it wonderful14:05
scott-workyou know that wasn't included in ubuntustudio until someone on  #opensourcemusicians told me about it14:05
scott-workthat's the same place where i found out about the phasex-dev14:06
quadrisproahh14:06
quadrisproscott-work, have you read my "bits from multimedia team" post?14:07
scott-worki have kept up with some of the emails, but i haven't seen your post specifically14:07
* scott-work had changed several gmail settings to avoid inbox with certain email and i'm still not into a routine of checking certain folders now14:08
scott-workhowever, i will go look now :)14:08
quadrisproscott-work, it appeared on planet.ubuntu.com, I think14:09
scott-workquadrispro: did free post in that thread as well?14:09
quadrisprofree?14:10
scott-workfree ekannayaka14:11
quadrisproAh yes, my friend free :) yep, it mailed me (and the team) about something related to fusd-kor or old Demudi packages14:11
scott-workah, i found it here quickly with google: http://swik.net/Ubuntu/Planet+Ubuntu/Alessio+Treglia%3A+Bits+from+the+Debian+Multimedia+Maintainers/euixn14:12
quadrisprohttp://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/11/msg00005.html14:12
quadrisproyep14:12
scott-workquadrispro:  what's you thoughts on jack sessions vs. lashd?14:13
quadrisprofirst point: lashd is abandoned14:13
scott-workdoh, we were just pushing it into studio :/14:14
quadrisproso, we should have more and more testing on JACK-session feature before releasing any *stable*-stuff providing it14:15
scott-workargh, it is so frustrating sometimes being lead when i am sooo ignorant about stuff :(14:15
quadrisproscott-work, abandoned, but well-made and enough reliable to land to the next Debian stable14:15
scott-workwell, okay...but i still feel like i'm groping in the dark sometimes14:16
quadrisproah lol14:16
quadrispro:)14:16
quadrisproscott-work, nobody knows everything :)14:16
scott-worki think towards the end of the natty cycle i'm going to take a month off from studio and do two things:14:17
scott-work1) record some freaking music, it's been way too long14:18
scott-work2) maybe make a fit-on-cd, live distribution based on ubuntu for audio recording/tone generation14:18
quadrispro1) good14:19
quadrispro2) good :)14:19
scott-worki would like to see just what can fit on a cd and be viable14:19
scott-workplus if i can work up some tutorial videos to include with it?  that would be a pretty cool tool to give peopel14:19
scott-workthink of it as a "business card" of sorts to introduce ubuntu studio to people14:20
scott-worki'll remove pulse and do it simply by using remastersys14:20
scott-workoh, "do it" means make the ISO, not remove pulse14:20
quadrisproI'd like to help you in making tutorials,screencast etc, I hope to find the time14:21
scott-workjust to be pedantic, i'm using blender to make them ;)14:22
scott-workpeople tend to shun blender because it is intimidating, but it really rocks14:23
scott-worknotklattu from #openpodcast wrote a very simplistic, direct, but thoroughly explantive tutorial for using blender for video14:23
scott-worki think of blender for video editing like CLI14:23
scott-workall the power is there is you know which key to press14:24
quadrisproeh sure14:24
quadrisproi have never used blender :/14:25
quadrisprobut I will take a look at it some day14:26
quadrisproscott-work, "Processing of phasex_0.12.0+m1-1_amd64.changes"14:26
quadrisprowill join the archives in the next few minutes14:27
scott-workquadrispro: yay, thank you quadrispro, you are a HUGE help and i really don't have a clue how we would have made such progress without you14:27
quadrisprosorry, I'm back14:44
quadrispro:) thank you, but I've just given my contribution14:47
quadrisproguys, I have to leave14:52
quadrisprosee you later114:52
quadrispro!14:52
quadrisprobye scott-work !14:52
scott-workbye quadrispro14:53
TheMusoscott-work: If someone hasn't looked at the seeds already, I'll take a peak.20:39
TheMusoOh Colin fixed it up.20:45
scott-workTheMuso: that's sort of bitter sweet because I wanted to learn what the problem was, however i am glad it is fixed20:46
TheMusoscott-work: Just look at the latest revision of the repo.20:46
scott-workheh, was doing that20:48
scott-workTheMuso: and i also did a facepalm when i saw the change!20:48
TheMusoheh20:48
scott-worki can't believe i didn't do that :/   it's so bleedin' obvious now20:49
TheMusoYeah.20:50
TheMusoI might take a look at lmms in any case.20:50
TheMusoSee hy its broken.20:50
TheMusowhy20:51
scott-workquadrispro said he fixed it and uploaded already20:51
TheMusooh ok then great.20:51
scott-worksaid that upstream added a /debian directory thathe didn't expect plus they did it wrong :P20:51
TheMusoheh right.20:51
scott-workhopefully tomorrow we can look at the logs and see if the kde packages are gone :)20:51
scott-workand i should also update the meta package tonight or earlly tomorrow morning20:52
scott-workper.sia said for me to create a debdiff, report a bug, attach the debdiff, and subscribe him to the bug for updating the metapackage20:52
scott-workTheMuso: oh, i should wait until the seeds re-germinate before i try to ./update the metapackage, shouldn't i?20:54
TheMusoscott-work: No, once your changes are in bzr, you can go straight ahead with the metapackage.20:55
TheMusoscott-work: What changes do you need to make to the metapackage, or is it just a refresh?20:56
scott-workTheMuso: but then i shouldn't use 'apt-get source ubuntustudio-meta' to get my code20:56
scott-workTheMuso: just a refresh20:57
TheMusoscott-work: ubuntustudio-meta is not in bzr.20:57
TheMusoscott-work: To get a fresh copy of ubuntustudio-meta use apt-get source in natty.20:57
TheMusoscott-work: If its just a refresh, then I am happy to take care of it for you, unless you really want the experience of doing it for yourself.20:58
scott-workTheMuso: "ubuntustudio-meta is not in bzr" when per.sia was walking through this before, this was a question/answer area that apparently got confused21:00
scott-workultimate i used apt-get source because i'm more familiar with it anyways21:00
TheMusoRight21:01
scott-workTheMuso: but also i need to udpate the control file to make an 'ubuntustudio-audio' transition package since we are removing the audio seed, at least until the next LTS version21:01
TheMusoOk.21:01
TheMusoSo its not just a refres.21:01
TheMusonot just a refresh21:01
scott-workyes, that is correct, which i realized after i reference my notes21:02
scott-workhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Update%20ubuntustudio-meta21:02
TheMusook21:02
TheMusoscott-work: When you have things complete, feel free to ping me also with the bug, and I am happy to attend to it if nobody else has by that time.21:04
TheMusoi.e when I see the bug number.21:04
scott-workTheMuso:  so tonight i can complete my natty install (from a previously downloaded daily image), apt-get source, moderate the control file, and ./update, even though the seeds have not regerminated?21:05
TheMusoscott-work: Seed germination for the disk build is different to germination for the metapackage update.21:06
TheMusoOr should I say, independant of each other.21:07
TheMusoSo germination of the seeds for the disk build is not required to update the metapackage. Once you update bzr, you can update the metapackage as soon as your bzr changes are pushed.21:07
scott-workbut the ./update will read the seeds, correct?21:07
scott-workso as long as bzr is current it will be okay?21:08
TheMusoYes.21:08
scott-workcool :)   i'm starting get it sorted in my head21:08
scott-workthe seeds in bzr control both, and both are independent of each other...seems straightforward now21:09
TheMusoYep.21:09
TheMusoBut germinating the seeds on the build pulls in teh binary packages built from the source metapackage.21:10
TheMusoSo thats why the metapackage names have to be mentioned in their own seed file.21:10
scott-workTheMuso: just to make you aware, i replace gnome-network-admin with network-manager-gnome in the seeds21:16
TheMusoOh ok.21:16
TheMusoIts not up to me, but why?21:16
scott-workchris coulsan made a patch so that connection tab was available in network-admin, but users were still complaining that it was very tedious and difficult to make network connections that were not wired to DHCP21:17
scott-workTheMuso:  it appears that the package "xorg-driver-fglrx" was a transition package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/2:8.723.1-0ubuntu521:24
scott-workshould we ship the package "fglrx" instead?21:24
scott-workxorg-driver-fglrx was included in the ship seed21:24
TheMusoYes, if its a transition package, we should change to the new package.21:25
TheMusobbs breakfast.21:25
scott-worki will note that for a later update21:25
TheMusoback22:10
scott-workthank you for your help TheMuso, i appreciate it22:14
TheMusonp22:14

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