[00:58] <TheMuso> abogani: I really need to try and find some time to take a look at the low latency kernel, and see about getting it into natty.
[01:04] <ScottL> TheMuso, someone is supposed to prepare a procedure for doing that
[01:04] <ScottL> from the kernel team, hold on, i'll see if i can find who, just gotta look
[01:08] <ScottL> ah yes, TheMuso , apw is supposed to make a procedure to get kernel variants into the archives
[01:08] <ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours
[01:08] <ScottL> i'm feeling antsy about this
[01:08] <TheMuso> ah ok.
[01:09]  * ScottL wants to keep telling people, "we're running out of time people, we're running out of time"
[01:09] <TheMuso> Heh.
[01:09] <ScottL> i have so far managed not to do it ;)
[01:10] <ScottL> i believe persia expects something within the next week or so
[01:15] <TheMuso> ok
[01:25] <persia> Rather, I have been asked to notify someone able to escalate the issue within Canonical if there remains nothing the week past next.  Next week is expected to be slower, as both the person asking me to watch the specification and the person to whom they would escalate are expected to be distracted by the Thanksgiving holiday.
[01:55] <ScottL> persia, it appears that gdebi is bringing in phonon...seems very strange
[01:55] <ScottL> however, i got interrupted as i was working on this by my kids fighting so i need to go back upstairs and confirm
[01:57] <scott__> scott@lucid-studio:~$ aptitude why phonon
[01:57] <scott__> i   gdebi-kde   Depends python-kde4 (>= 3.16.0-0ubuntu11)
[01:57] <scott__> i A python-kde4 Depends phonon (>= 4:4.5.2)      
[01:57] <scott__> that's the output
[01:59] <scott__> i was going to grep the seeds and see where this is coming in
[01:59] <scott__> and it appears that the dekstop seed is adding gdebi on line 104
[02:00] <scott__> very strange that including gdebi works itself into including phonon into ubuntustudio :/
[02:04] <scott__> hmmm, it would also appear that wacom-tools package is not in the repos anymore
[02:24] <scott__> ack, silly me, actually it's the 'install-package' package that is pulling in gdebi-kde
[02:26] <scott__> bleargh, i can't figure it out, it all looks like one big circular dependency at this point
[03:24] <ScottL> hi paultag
[03:25] <persia> ScottL, Find out what pulls gdebi-kde: it may be possible to pull gdebi instead (the GNOME GUI), and still satisfy the dependencies without pulling phonon.
[03:31] <paultag> good evening there ScottL 
[03:34] <scott__> persia, it seems circular according to 'aptitude why gdebi-kde'
[03:34] <scott__> it depends on phyton-kde4
[03:34] <scott__> which depends on kdebase-runtime
[03:34] <scott__> which *recommends* kubuntu-debug-installer
[03:35] <scott__> which depends on kpackagekit
[03:35] <scott__> which depends on software-properties-kde
[03:35] <scott__> which depends on install-package
[03:35] <scott__> which depends on gdebi-kde
[03:35] <scott__> my brain hurts
[03:36] <TheMuso> Afaik gdebi is going away, adn the software centre will manage deb installs from now on IIRC.
[03:37] <persia> ScottL, There's probably an entry into the circularity somewhere which could be diverted with either a package change or an alternate seeding.
[03:37] <persia> (finding it is tricky)
[03:38] <persia> I suspect the path is something like dssi-vst -> wine1.2 -> kdebase-runtime
[03:38] <persia> Once we have kdebase-runtime, keeping KDE out gets hard.
[03:38] <persia> (another potential path is lmms-vst -> wine1.2 -> kdebase-runtime)
[03:40] <persia> If my guess is correct, it can be short-circuited with seeding of gnome-exe-thumbnailer, but there may be another path (and one wonders if VST is important enough to justify shipping WINE)
[03:40] <scott__> lmms-vst is not installed
[03:40] <persia> If Studio ships software-center, it is probably easier to not ship gdebi, and let software-center handle it.
[03:41] <scott__> software-center was not being installed because of a name change (ubuntu-software-center -> software-center)
[03:41] <scott__> howerver, i have updated the seeds for that
[03:41] <persia> And you re-ran germinate, and the meta is still pulling phonon?
[03:42] <scott__> i haven't re-run anything tonight, nor pushed to bzr yet
[03:43] <scott__> i was hoping to track down some of this to try to fix it before doing that
[03:43] <scott__> however, i will be able to do so tomorrow night
[03:43] <persia> I suspect it's the software-center rename that caused the issue.
[03:44] <persia> Because software-center wasn't present, germinate grabbed alternate stuff, and ended up pulling the KDE software management stack.
[03:45] <scott__> looking in synaptic for anything kde and seeing what is installed is kinda depressing :P
[03:45] <scott__> it would certainly be worth correcting
[03:47] <persia> My recommendation when working with seeds is to make one small change, and then reinvestigate after a germinate run.
[03:48] <persia> Trying to fix several issues at the same time usually leads to confusion and extra work, although I know it feels more satisfying for most other sorts of work.
[03:48] <persia> But the output of seeds is, essentially, installed systems: it's hard to know precisely what the result of the change is without having the new output to check.
[03:49] <persia> Same as if you're debugging the simple "#! /bin/sh\necho Hello Wolrd\n", it's easier to see the bug in the output than in the input, and it's worth testing (although it's *lots* easier to test the shell script)
[03:49] <ScottL> right, i'm stopping for tonight, i'll see about pushing to bzr later tonight though
[04:03] <ScottL> persia, TheMuso , changes pushed to bzr
[04:04] <ScottL> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty
[04:05] <ScottL> check it as you will and tomorrow i'll see about updating the meta package
[04:38] <persia> ScottL, Thanks for the alert: I'll take a look in a few hours.  Note that the tasks will be updating automatically, so the next image run ought reflect a mix of the old and new.
[06:57] <TheMuso> ScottL: Worth noting that your seed changes broke the build. :)
[06:57] <TheMuso> I'll see if I can find some time on the weekend to look them over.
[12:01] <ScottL> TheMuso, oh goodie :P
[12:01] <ScottL> TheMuso, i should have the meta updated and hopefully that will fix it no?
[12:03] <ScottL> quadrispro,  i believe phasex is in debian from  http://www.sysex.net/phasex/
[12:03] <ScottL> but, my understanding is that development has stagnated
[12:04] <quadrispro> ehy ScottL, yes it is from sysex.net
[12:04] <ScottL> quadrispro, however, there is a development branch here that seems to be fairly active http://disabled.github.com/phasex-dev/
[12:04] <ScottL> although the word "disbaled" in the URL is a little bothersome
[12:05] <ScottL> but they've added lashd support among other things, so it at least seems to be more current that the sysex.net code, no?
[12:05] <quadrispro> just a moment, I'm fixing a bug in flake, getting back soon
[12:05] <ScottL> quadrispro, no rush, just wanted to pass on the information that i ran across
[12:07]  * ScottL is leaving for work, be on as scott-work in ~ 30 minutes
[12:54] <TheMuso> ScottL: no
[12:54] <TheMuso> ScottL: It appears you didn't get the syntax right somewhere, but I would need to look to be sure.
[12:54] <TheMuso> And I am aobut to go to bed.
[12:56] <quadrispro> scott-work, well, it seems up-to-date
[12:59] <scott-work> TheMuso: then i suppose i shouldn't rush to update the metapackage then
[12:59] <scott-work> quadrispro:  are you saying that the code in debian and the code for phasex-dev are the same?
[13:00] <quadrispro> no, just phasex-dev is the real upstream now
[13:00] <quadrispro> and I should get the code from that new source
[13:01] <scott-work> oh good :)
[13:01] <quadrispro> I'm working on an upload to experimental right now
[13:02] <scott-work> wow!  you move fast :P
[13:02] <quadrispro> :)
[13:02] <scott-work> it took me several weeks to only update that seeds, and i apparently still managed to break it :/
[13:04] <quadrispro> scott-work, ah! what's the problem with lmms? I've read on a cd-health check that uninstallable binaries get built :/
[13:08] <scott-work> quadrispro: i don't know...to be honest, i hadn't really looked until now
[13:08]  * scott-work had changed some gmail settings and some studio emails goes to a folder i'm not used to looking at
[13:08] <scott-work> yet
[13:09] <quadrispro> ok
[13:09] <quadrispro> 0.12.0+m1 seems a good versioning...
[13:09] <quadrispro> mmm
[13:13] <scott-work> quadrispro: it looks like lmms did build https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/lmms/+builds
[13:13] <scott-work> or at least build without any obvious errors
[13:13] <quadrispro> in fact, I've uploaded it some days ago
[13:14] <scott-work> the log didn't seem to show anything untoward either, again at least in an obvious manner
[13:18] <quadrispro> scott-work, argh... upstream has included a debian/ dir!
[13:23] <scott-work> quadrispro:  is that bad because you didn't expect it or because they did it wrong?
[13:23] <quadrispro> 1) I didn't expect it
[13:23] <quadrispro> 2) they did wrong
[13:23] <quadrispro> :)
[13:24] <quadrispro> btw, it is not a real issue, maybe the new upstream doesn't know that the package is already available in Debian/Ubuntu
[13:25] <scott-work> but isn't _everything_ available in debian? ;)
[13:27] <quadrispro> almost everything :)
[13:28] <scott-work> ahck, puttoi
[13:28] <scott-work> i'm doing work here at work setting up standards
[13:28] <scott-work> because it hasn't been updated in almost fifteen years
[13:28] <scott-work> and now i'm dealing with this office and another remote office that does things completely different
[13:28] <scott-work> and it's been a very, very frustrating three months or so :(
[13:29] <scott-work> standards for the drafting/detailing/designer department, i should say
[13:34] <scott-work> and since this industry is so singular, there aren't really any industry standards to leverage
[13:34] <scott-work> so i'm also fighting a cultural momentum because "this is the way we've done stuff for years"
[13:34] <scott-work> at least i manage to get them to install mediawiki and mysql on the servers though :)
[13:34] <scott-work> yay for open source
[13:36] <quadrispro> "this is the way we've done stuff for years" -> this reminds me.... mmmm... oh yes, my country
[13:40] <scott-work> lol, but i will bend everyone to my will <insert evil laughter>
[13:41] <scott-work> i jest, but i *can* make this happen, but it just takes enormous amounts of continual effort
[13:42] <scott-work> but there is a certain amount of subduction where getting fabricated parts out the door and making money is more pressing and all these improvements get set to the side, which makes it hard to maintain momentum sometimes :/
[13:43] <quadrispro> sure, I understand
[13:44] <scott-work> but i'm done venting and i feel much better now :)
[13:45] <scott-work> boy i hope that the.muse can sort the seeds, i feel really, really bad about that ;(
[13:46] <scott-work> the email i saw that that my revision "wasn't a branch"
[13:49] <quadrispro> so we should wait for luke to fix it 
[13:49]  * quadrispro has built phasex fine
[13:56] <scott-work> quadrispro:  i think luke still feels slightly responsible (being one of the most knowledgeable about the project) but it would be groovy if anyone fixed it
[13:56] <scott-work> just as long as its fixed :)
[14:02] <quadrispro> sure
[14:02] <quadrispro> scott-work, phasex has too many beautiful presets
[14:03] <scott-work> quadrispro:  were you referring to the seeds getting fixed?
[14:04] <scott-work> quadrispro:  i haven't really played with phasex, i'm not much of a synthesizer guy, although i've played a bit following some youtube tutorials
[14:05] <quadrispro> no no, I'm about to upload phasex now :) so I'm having some testing on it, and I find it wonderful
[14:05] <scott-work> you know that wasn't included in ubuntustudio until someone on  #opensourcemusicians told me about it
[14:06] <scott-work> that's the same place where i found out about the phasex-dev
[14:06] <quadrispro> ahh
[14:07] <quadrispro> scott-work, have you read my "bits from multimedia team" post?
[14:07] <scott-work> i have kept up with some of the emails, but i haven't seen your post specifically
[14:08]  * scott-work had changed several gmail settings to avoid inbox with certain email and i'm still not into a routine of checking certain folders now
[14:08] <scott-work> however, i will go look now :)
[14:09] <quadrispro> scott-work, it appeared on planet.ubuntu.com, I think
[14:09] <scott-work> quadrispro: did free post in that thread as well?
[14:10] <quadrispro> free?
[14:11] <scott-work> free ekannayaka
[14:11] <quadrispro> Ah yes, my friend free :) yep, it mailed me (and the team) about something related to fusd-kor or old Demudi packages
[14:12] <scott-work> ah, i found it here quickly with google: http://swik.net/Ubuntu/Planet+Ubuntu/Alessio+Treglia%3A+Bits+from+the+Debian+Multimedia+Maintainers/euixn
[14:12] <quadrispro> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/11/msg00005.html
[14:12] <quadrispro> yep
[14:13] <scott-work> quadrispro:  what's you thoughts on jack sessions vs. lashd?
[14:13] <quadrispro> first point: lashd is abandoned
[14:14] <scott-work> doh, we were just pushing it into studio :/
[14:15] <quadrispro> so, we should have more and more testing on JACK-session feature before releasing any *stable*-stuff providing it
[14:15] <scott-work> argh, it is so frustrating sometimes being lead when i am sooo ignorant about stuff :(
[14:15] <quadrispro> scott-work, abandoned, but well-made and enough reliable to land to the next Debian stable
[14:16] <scott-work> well, okay...but i still feel like i'm groping in the dark sometimes
[14:16] <quadrispro> ah lol
[14:16] <quadrispro> :)
[14:16] <quadrispro> scott-work, nobody knows everything :)
[14:17] <scott-work> i think towards the end of the natty cycle i'm going to take a month off from studio and do two things:
[14:18] <scott-work> 1) record some freaking music, it's been way too long
[14:18] <scott-work> 2) maybe make a fit-on-cd, live distribution based on ubuntu for audio recording/tone generation
[14:19] <quadrispro> 1) good
[14:19] <quadrispro> 2) good :)
[14:19] <scott-work> i would like to see just what can fit on a cd and be viable
[14:19] <scott-work> plus if i can work up some tutorial videos to include with it?  that would be a pretty cool tool to give peopel
[14:20] <scott-work> think of it as a "business card" of sorts to introduce ubuntu studio to people
[14:20] <scott-work> i'll remove pulse and do it simply by using remastersys
[14:20] <scott-work> oh, "do it" means make the ISO, not remove pulse
[14:21] <quadrispro> I'd like to help you in making tutorials,screencast etc, I hope to find the time
[14:22] <scott-work> just to be pedantic, i'm using blender to make them ;)
[14:23] <scott-work> people tend to shun blender because it is intimidating, but it really rocks
[14:23] <scott-work> notklattu from #openpodcast wrote a very simplistic, direct, but thoroughly explantive tutorial for using blender for video
[14:23] <scott-work> i think of blender for video editing like CLI
[14:24] <scott-work> all the power is there is you know which key to press
[14:24] <quadrispro> eh sure
[14:25] <quadrispro> i have never used blender :/
[14:26] <quadrispro> but I will take a look at it some day
[14:26] <quadrispro> scott-work, "Processing of phasex_0.12.0+m1-1_amd64.changes"
[14:27] <quadrispro> will join the archives in the next few minutes
[14:27] <scott-work> quadrispro: yay, thank you quadrispro, you are a HUGE help and i really don't have a clue how we would have made such progress without you
[14:44] <quadrispro> sorry, I'm back
[14:47] <quadrispro> :) thank you, but I've just given my contribution
[14:52] <quadrispro> guys, I have to leave
[14:52] <quadrispro> see you later1
[14:52] <quadrispro> !
[14:52] <quadrispro> bye scott-work !
[14:53] <scott-work> bye quadrispro
[20:39] <TheMuso> scott-work: If someone hasn't looked at the seeds already, I'll take a peak.
[20:45] <TheMuso> Oh Colin fixed it up.
[20:46] <scott-work> TheMuso: that's sort of bitter sweet because I wanted to learn what the problem was, however i am glad it is fixed
[20:46] <TheMuso> scott-work: Just look at the latest revision of the repo.
[20:48] <scott-work> heh, was doing that
[20:48] <scott-work> TheMuso: and i also did a facepalm when i saw the change!
[20:48] <TheMuso> heh
[20:49] <scott-work> i can't believe i didn't do that :/   it's so bleedin' obvious now
[20:50] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[20:50] <TheMuso> I might take a look at lmms in any case.
[20:50] <TheMuso> See hy its broken.
[20:51] <TheMuso> why
[20:51] <scott-work> quadrispro said he fixed it and uploaded already
[20:51] <TheMuso> oh ok then great.
[20:51] <scott-work> said that upstream added a /debian directory thathe didn't expect plus they did it wrong :P
[20:51] <TheMuso> heh right.
[20:51] <scott-work> hopefully tomorrow we can look at the logs and see if the kde packages are gone :)
[20:52] <scott-work> and i should also update the meta package tonight or earlly tomorrow morning
[20:52] <scott-work> per.sia said for me to create a debdiff, report a bug, attach the debdiff, and subscribe him to the bug for updating the metapackage
[20:54] <scott-work> TheMuso: oh, i should wait until the seeds re-germinate before i try to ./update the metapackage, shouldn't i?
[20:55] <TheMuso> scott-work: No, once your changes are in bzr, you can go straight ahead with the metapackage.
[20:56] <TheMuso> scott-work: What changes do you need to make to the metapackage, or is it just a refresh?
[20:56] <scott-work> TheMuso: but then i shouldn't use 'apt-get source ubuntustudio-meta' to get my code
[20:57] <scott-work> TheMuso: just a refresh
[20:57] <TheMuso> scott-work: ubuntustudio-meta is not in bzr.
[20:57] <TheMuso> scott-work: To get a fresh copy of ubuntustudio-meta use apt-get source in natty.
[20:58] <TheMuso> scott-work: If its just a refresh, then I am happy to take care of it for you, unless you really want the experience of doing it for yourself.
[21:00] <scott-work> TheMuso: "ubuntustudio-meta is not in bzr" when per.sia was walking through this before, this was a question/answer area that apparently got confused
[21:00] <scott-work> ultimate i used apt-get source because i'm more familiar with it anyways
[21:01] <TheMuso> Right
[21:01] <scott-work> TheMuso: but also i need to udpate the control file to make an 'ubuntustudio-audio' transition package since we are removing the audio seed, at least until the next LTS version
[21:01] <TheMuso> Ok.
[21:01] <TheMuso> So its not just a refres.
[21:01] <TheMuso> not just a refresh
[21:02] <scott-work> yes, that is correct, which i realized after i reference my notes
[21:02] <scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Update%20ubuntustudio-meta
[21:02] <TheMuso> ok
[21:04] <TheMuso> scott-work: When you have things complete, feel free to ping me also with the bug, and I am happy to attend to it if nobody else has by that time.
[21:04] <TheMuso> i.e when I see the bug number.
[21:05] <scott-work> TheMuso:  so tonight i can complete my natty install (from a previously downloaded daily image), apt-get source, moderate the control file, and ./update, even though the seeds have not regerminated?
[21:06] <TheMuso> scott-work: Seed germination for the disk build is different to germination for the metapackage update.
[21:07] <TheMuso> Or should I say, independant of each other.
[21:07] <TheMuso> So germination of the seeds for the disk build is not required to update the metapackage. Once you update bzr, you can update the metapackage as soon as your bzr changes are pushed.
[21:07] <scott-work> but the ./update will read the seeds, correct?
[21:08] <scott-work> so as long as bzr is current it will be okay?
[21:08] <TheMuso> Yes.
[21:08] <scott-work> cool :)   i'm starting get it sorted in my head
[21:09] <scott-work> the seeds in bzr control both, and both are independent of each other...seems straightforward now
[21:09] <TheMuso> Yep.
[21:10] <TheMuso> But germinating the seeds on the build pulls in teh binary packages built from the source metapackage.
[21:10] <TheMuso> So thats why the metapackage names have to be mentioned in their own seed file.
[21:16] <scott-work> TheMuso: just to make you aware, i replace gnome-network-admin with network-manager-gnome in the seeds
[21:16] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[21:16] <TheMuso> Its not up to me, but why?
[21:17] <scott-work> chris coulsan made a patch so that connection tab was available in network-admin, but users were still complaining that it was very tedious and difficult to make network connections that were not wired to DHCP
[21:24] <scott-work> TheMuso:  it appears that the package "xorg-driver-fglrx" was a transition package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/2:8.723.1-0ubuntu5
[21:24] <scott-work> should we ship the package "fglrx" instead?
[21:24] <scott-work> xorg-driver-fglrx was included in the ship seed
[21:25] <TheMuso> Yes, if its a transition package, we should change to the new package.
[21:25] <TheMuso> bbs breakfast.
[21:25] <scott-work> i will note that for a later update
[22:10] <TheMuso> back
[22:14] <scott-work> thank you for your help TheMuso, i appreciate it
[22:14] <TheMuso> np