[00:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] New Ubuntu Patch Pilot Scheme - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/20/new-ubuntu-patch-pilot-scheme/
[08:37] <finelytuned> o/
[08:49] <popey> morning slackers
[08:49] <finelytuned> morning popey
[09:00] <danfish> I would say lo but I'm too slack :)
[09:06]  * AlanBell just woke up
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> nothing wrong with that, it's the weekend :)
[09:06] <winniesun> hello everyone
[09:07] <AlanBell> hi winniesun
[09:08] <winniesun> AlanBell:I am from China
[09:08] <AlanBell> great
[09:08] <AlanBell> there is a china loco channel too
[09:08] <AlanBell> !cn
[09:08] <winniesun> well,just practise my English,thanks
[09:09] <AlanBell> that is fine, you are doing great so far, much better than my chinese
[09:09] <finelytuned> AlanBell: second that
[09:10] <winniesun> you are so kind
[09:15] <danfish> I thought openvz was effectively dead, but someone's ported it to a relatively new kernel
[09:16] <danfish> http://forum.proxmox.com/threads/4974-KVM-0.13.0-for-Proxmox-VE-1.6-(for-2.6.32-and-2.6.35)-pvetest-repository
[09:16]  * danfish likes openvz
[09:22]  * MartijnVdS hates it
[09:23]  * popey is ambivalent
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> Sysadmins at work are in love with it, but all I get (as a user of their servers) are slowdowns and "lag peaks" (a few seconds where nothing happens, then everything continues as normal)
[09:25] <danfish> MartijnVdS: what are you running on them?
[09:25] <danfish> blender?
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> danfish: gvim (X11 forwarding), NFS homedirs, and an unused apache
[09:30] <danfish> not an awful lot then. If you (or rather the sysadmins) mess around with some of the backend settings too much, like tinkering with the backend counters, you can really stuff things up :(
[09:32] <danfish> easier to put it in the hands of something like proxmox
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> or just use a supported virtualization tech
[09:36] <danfish> by supported I assume you mean kernel native, like kvm?
[09:36] <kazade> morning all
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> yes
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> something that people still work on
[09:40] <danfish> the proxmox team still do
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> I hope it won't turn into our previous "adventure"
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> (still running some pre-war version of FreeBSD on some boxes)
[09:50] <danfish> heh
[09:50] <looba> hi
[09:52] <kazade> popey, just uploaded screenshots of my level editor: http://kazade.imgur.com/platformation :D
[10:15] <czajkowski> c
[11:35] <jacobw> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326604/Living-slow-lane-Hundreds-orphaned-sloths-given-new-lease-life-Costa-Rican-sanctuary.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
[14:55] <jacobw> can data be recovered from a CD with a small crack?
[14:55] <BigRedS> jacobw: generally not AFAIK
[14:55] <jacobw> the CD in question has a small crack about 1.5cm originating from the centre
[14:55] <jacobw> BigRedS, :(
[14:56] <BigRedS> You might be able to get some stuff from the outer portion of it, but I don't think there's any sort of data redundancy for that sort of instance
[14:56] <penguin42> I suspect the big problems are 1) Making sure the drive goes slow rather than trying to go at a high speed and 2) the tracking probably goes
[14:56] <BigRedS> so if the bits themsevles cannot be read, there's no way to calculate what they should have been from the rest of the CD
[14:57] <stuphi> ddrescue -b 2048 /dev/cdrom cdimage logfile
[14:57] <stuphi> Found that at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery
[14:59] <jacobw> thanks
[14:59] <stuphi> Hope it helps :-)
[15:11] <OmNomSequitur> jacobw: depends on how long the crack is, if it unbalances the disc...
[15:12] <OmNomSequitur> You'll lose all data from the tracks over the crack.
[15:12] <OmNomSequitur> So a crack going up 1cm from the centre means you lose all data up to 1cm from the centre.
[15:13] <jacobw> i guess i'll find out with this ddrescue thing
[15:14] <stuphi> Once you do the ddrescue, you can mount the image on a loopback device and play around without damaging the disk any more.
[15:23] <jacobw> hopefully :) i could be in trouble for losing the holiday photos :o
[15:24] <danfish> recipe no2 added to the new website http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/20/a-spanish-twist-on-a-yorkshire-classic/
[15:29] <jacobw> i've got a very simple receipe.. cashew nuts and sweet chilli sauce mixed together in a bowl
[15:39] <penguin42> what is this? An Open sauce movement?
[15:42] <jacobw> ;)
[15:47] <stuphi> danfish: So you have given us the source code, when can we sample a pre-compiled version? :-)
[15:49] <jacobw> i've just joined twitter, i'm looking for people to follow, any suggestions?
[15:49] <jacobw> http://twitter.com/jacobw0
[16:04] <kaushal> hi
[16:04] <kaushal> has anyone tried searching @domainname.com in the search bar inside gmail ?
[16:05] <danfish> stuphi: there's some leftovers in the bin - I'll post them to you :D
[16:05] <kaushal> is that possible ?
[16:11] <BigRedS> kaushal: it's possible
[16:11] <BigRedS> it's just a full-text search for that string though
[16:32] <Azelphur> got a player who can't connect to my game server, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=PsAMhhtp
[16:32] <Azelphur> looks like a pretty broken tracert that :(
[16:32] <Azelphur> any idea how he'd approach getting that fixed?
[16:36] <cprofitt> hello beginners team -- say hello to my class
[16:37] <jacobw> hallo class
[16:37] <AlanBell> o/
[16:37] <finelytuned> o/
[16:41] <Pendulum> o/
[16:42] <Pendulum> although last I checked this was #ubuntu-uk, not the Beginners Team
[16:44] <popey> :)
[16:44] <BigRedS> Azelphur: can you get to him?
[16:45] <BigRedS> as in traceroute to his IP
[16:45] <Azelphur> BigRedS: dunno
[16:45] <Azelphur> I'll find out
[16:46] <BigRedS> but I'd blame hisIP
[16:46] <BigRedS> ISP
[16:48] <Azelphur> BigRedS: I don't even get first hop on my way to him
[16:48] <ali1234> looks like intermittent connection
[16:49] <ali1234> that would explain the on-off dns and the random stop in the tracert output
[16:49] <Azelphur> if I don't even get first hop from the datacenter to his IP doesn't that mean some form of filtering is going on?
[16:49] <popey> hello ali1234, not seen you for a while, welcome back
[16:49] <ali1234> popey: i was at meego conf :)
[16:49] <popey> ahhh
[16:49] <ali1234> ironically i hate mobile computers
[16:49] <ali1234> so i didn't go on the internet for a week or so
[16:50] <ali1234> Azelphur: filtering at your end, yeah :)
[16:51] <Azelphur> hmm
[16:51] <ali1234> Azelphur: you know how tracert works right? packets have a maximum hop, so it sends a packet with a "max hops" of 1, then 2, then 3... and sees who reports an error. "max hops" also known as time to live. but some routers will silently drop those errors.
[16:51] <Azelphur> yea I know that
[16:51] <Azelphur> how would I check that my server hasn't somehow firewalled him?
[16:52] <Azelphur> I've never touched iptables so it shouldn't be that
[16:52] <ali1234> i doubt it would accidentally filter one guy
[16:53] <BigRedS> if it was a firewall error, he'd get almost as far as you
[16:53] <ali1234> but it can be hard to figure out what your firewall is really doing
[16:53] <ali1234> that his DNS is intermittent suggests a intermittent internet connection
[16:54] <Azelphur> still even if he had an intermittent connection or was completely unplugged, I should still get past the first hop right?
[16:54] <ali1234> yeah but that is unrelated
[16:54] <Azelphur> it is?
[16:54] <ali1234> yes
[16:55] <ali1234> presumably
[16:55] <ali1234> i mean his DNS path goes nowhere near your server
[16:56] <ali1234> if i were him i would do a ping -nt 204.145.82.242 and leave it going for a while
[16:56] <Azelphur> he's on windows
[16:56] <ali1234> windows has ping
[16:56] <Azelphur> ok :p
[16:56] <ali1234> i dunno if -n is right though
[16:56] <ali1234> but whatever one makes it not look up ips
[16:57] <ali1234> it's just ping -t
[16:57] <ali1234> doesn't resolve by default
[16:58] <ali1234> if that works ok i would start poking the dns servers
[16:59] <Azelphur> he randomly left after 30 minutes of debugging anyway \o/
[16:59] <Azelphur> gotta love the ask n runners
[17:02] <ali1234> randomly, or his connection went totally kaput
[17:02] <Azelphur> like he quit :p
[17:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dean Sas] Married - http://www.deansas.org/blog/2010/11/20/married/
[17:25] <popey> how was meego conf btw ali1234 ?
[17:26] <ali1234> very technical, nokia played it very low key as well
[17:26] <ali1234> possibly because they don't want to take the blame for meego handset being totally unusable :)
[17:27] <popey> heh
[17:27] <ali1234> that and there is no official hardware to run it on
[17:27] <popey> helpful
[17:27] <popey> is there an x86 port?
[17:27] <popey> or is it arm only?
[17:27] <ali1234> of handset? yeah
[17:27] <ali1234> there's even an x86 phone that runs it, called avaa or something
[17:27] <ali1234> not available to the public though
[17:27] <ali1234> they wouldn't even let people take photos of it at the conf
[17:27] <popey> i guess they're using reference hardware?
[17:28] <popey> not actual phone shaped things?
[17:28] <ali1234> the avaa is phone shaped
[17:28] <ali1234> most community developers are using the n900
[17:28] <ali1234> it's not officially supported for for end users but nokia are putting some resources into the port
[17:28] <ali1234> but it will never be an official upgrade
[17:29] <ali1234> they gave us all ideapads though... netbook that transforms into a tablet
[17:29] <ali1234> so it has a touch screen... so we can develop meego touch apps
[17:30] <popey> the lenovo thing?
[17:30] <ali1234> yes
[17:30] <popey> nice
[17:30] <popey> well, is it a nice device?
[17:30] <popey> or are you under NDA and cant say? :)
[17:30] <ali1234> no NDA, it's not exactly new hardware either
[17:31] <ali1234> been out for like a year
[17:31] <ali1234> it's alright, i mean i can't really complain for free
[17:31] <popey> sure
[17:31] <ali1234> it's not as nice as that new dell thing though
[17:31] <ali1234> build quality... is a bit wobbly
[17:31] <ali1234> i wouldn't buy one for the price they normally cost... i'd get the dell instead
[18:24] <nucc1> erm, if apache simply says "fail" on the terminal when I try to start it, where can i find out why its failing?
[18:37] <penguin42> isn't there an apache log somewhere?
[18:51] <nucc1> penguin42, there is. thanks. thought there was some way of getting the daemon to spit out the errors it encountered
[18:54] <popey> evening
[19:01] <issyl0> popey: evening :)
[19:03] <jacobw> evening
[19:11] <czajkowski> bah
[19:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] The Etherpad Foundation is Hiring - http://popey.com/blog/2010/11/20/the-etherpad-foundation-is-hiring/
[19:28] <DJones> popey: Have you seen the email re changing the /topic for the new log location? Looking at the wording on jussi's email, its not going to fit.  Any suggestions, or just change the log location part & miss out the acceptance of terms section
[19:28] <jussi> DJones: please use the chanserv message ;)
[19:29] <DJones> jussi: ok, cheers
[19:29] <jussi> DJones: as listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
[19:29] <jussi> DJones: theres no need for it to be in the topic if theres an entry message
[19:29] <DJones> jussi: Yes, thats where I'm looking, thats fine, solves the problem
[19:29] <jussi> excellent :)
[19:30] <DJones> Is it just the owner that can set entry messages, or anyone with ops
[19:30] <jussi> anyone with +s
[19:31] <DJones> msg ChanServ SET #ubuntu-uk ENTRYMSG Welcome to #channel. This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com. Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
[19:31] <Azelphur> derp :p
[19:31] <Azelphur> oh dear not an entry message
[19:31] <Azelphur> those are silly
[19:31] <jussi> DJones: you need to fix the #channel
[19:31] <DJones> Yup, should have it now
[19:31] <Azelphur> jussi: entry messages are silly, that's what the topic is for :(
[19:32] <jussi> DJones: great :)
[19:33] <DJones> Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/ | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 ☃
[19:35] <jussi> lol
[19:35] <jussi> not quite ;)
[19:37] <Azelphur> christmas party :o
[19:37] <czajkowski> Azelphur: where you been :)
[19:37] <Azelphur> nowhere :D
[20:31] <finelytuned> evening all
[20:55] <AlanBell> evening all
[20:57] <finelytuned> hi ya
[20:58] <dutchie>  hi AlanBell and finelytuned
[21:00] <Pendulum> hiya
[21:04] <AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/todays-chatter updated with the new log location
[21:15] <finelytuned> is there another alternative program to wine?
[21:15] <Azelphur> finelytuned: there are forks of wine, there's also virtual machines
[21:15] <Azelphur> besides that no
[21:15] <dutchie> "windows"
[21:17]  * AlanBell is loving wine
[21:17] <finelytuned> i love a type.......... just not the computing type :0
[21:18] <AlanBell> I am using python under wine to access a clunky old win32 api that extracts stuff from a document management system
[21:19] <AlanBell> then stuffs it into Alfresco via CMIS
[21:19] <Azelphur> I wish my TF2 would stop playing up under wine
[21:19] <AlanBell> about 140,000 files totalling 40GB or thereabouts
[21:20] <Azelphur> Anyone happen to know what this is about? http://pastebin.com/hQdE57SL
[21:20] <finelytuned> brb
[21:20] <dutchie> Azelphur: wine devs probably would if you filed a bug *cough*
[21:20] <Azelphur> the stuff line 33 onwards looks like the breakage
[21:21] <Azelphur> dutchie: I don't think it's a bug
[21:21] <dutchie> what is it then?
[21:21] <AlanBell> it is a bug, unless it also breaks in windows
[21:22] <Azelphur> I have no idea, I have one wine bottle which can launch tf2 but the other can't
[21:22] <Azelphur> I wonder if it's an account thing...
[21:22] <finelytuned> i think i have it working
[21:24] <Azelphur> yea I get that wined3d stuff in my second wine bottle but the game still starts
[21:37] <zleap> hi tombrough
[21:53] <zleap> is the new desktop going to be using unity or wayland
[21:55] <AlanBell> zleap: unity
[21:55] <zleap> ah
[21:55] <dutchie> zleap: it's not an either/or
[21:55] <zleap> so what is wayland,
[21:55] <AlanBell> wayland is a long term possible replacement for X
[21:55] <zleap> ah, so unity will sit on top of X
[21:55] <AlanBell> so one day it might be Unity on Wayland rather than unity on X
[21:55] <zleap> so is wayladn similar to X as in client / server type thing
[21:56] <dutchie> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
[21:56] <AlanBell> (or gnome-shell or traditional gnome panels if this funky new hotness isn't as hot as hoped)
[21:56] <zleap> ah
[21:56] <AlanBell> zleap: less network transparency and more OpenGL
[21:57] <zleap> so that means games are easier to write and other software that needs OpenGL
[21:58] <zleap> so less network transparency means more secure right
[21:58] <AlanBell> not sure it will make much difference to writing stuff that needs openGL
[21:58] <zleap> but it means more stuff like compiz etc
[21:58] <AlanBell> and I wouldn't think it is particularly more secure
[21:59] <zleap> ok
[21:59] <zleap> so what does that mean then
[21:59] <AlanBell> might be better performance
[21:59] <zleap> ah
[22:00] <zleap> sounds good
[22:00] <tombrough> will wayland support the X networking protocols?
[22:01] <zleap> looking at the link posted earlier yes,  as its going to be backward compatable
[22:01] <zleap> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
[22:24] <zleap> so is the switch to wayland ubuntu only or part of a longer term stragegy across distros
[22:27] <dutchie> so far, i think it's only ubuntu out of the major distros that have said they are considering wayland
[22:27] <popey> fedora have too
[22:27] <zleap> ah
[22:27] <popey> and mint say they'll wait and see
[22:27] <zleap> maybe there could be a wubuntu that can be a test bed for wayland development
[22:27] <popey> i dont think that would be helpful
[22:27] <zleap> ah
[22:27] <popey> it should be in the main distro so that its exposed to more people
[22:28] <AlanBell> it is not ready for anything yet
[22:28] <popey> indeed, this is all some way off
[22:28] <zleap> ah
[22:28] <zleap> sounds good though
[23:05] <AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/20/christmas-party/
[23:05] <dutchie> when is that going to stop being beta.?
[23:05] <dutchie> and i like the "no sprouts" rule
[23:06] <AlanBell> "soon"
[23:07] <finelytuned> how do i take ownership of a folder containing multiple files thats been given to me
[23:17] <penguin42> finelytuned: chown -R yourusername directory
[23:18] <finelytuned> penguin42: ty
[23:18] <finelytuned> :)