[16:14] <lifeless> moin
[16:16] <jml> lifeless: hi
[16:16] <lifeless> hiya jml
[16:17] <jml> lifeless: just polishing off the last of the testtools/twisted-related failures
[16:17] <lifeless> \o/
[16:18] <jml> lifeless: looks like iterating the reactor is necessary for many tests because of bugs in Twisted (either core or APIs)
[16:18] <jml> lifeless: I'm thinking of giving AsynchronousDeferredRunTest some kind of option that controls whether we do that iterating
[16:18] <lifeless> jml: don't measure, don't get. [e.g. thats kindof predictable]
[16:18] <lifeless> jml: I noticed you deleted the mention of iteration from the docstring
[16:19] <jml> lifeless: I actually had deleted iteration at one point, because I thought we could do without it. (I fixed the motivating use case at the root)
[16:19] <lifeless> jml: of a helper function; I assume you had good reason but I wanted to mention that it feels kindof lacking - that its not very clear whats going on.
[16:19] <jml> lifeless: but now I've restored it along with the docstring
[16:20] <lifeless> jml: an option feels nice; then we can report on the failing code periodically
[16:20] <jml> lifeless: anyway, I'm thinking maybe a 'strict' optional parameter to ADRT that defaults to True.
[16:21] <jml> lifeless: more hassle now, fewer backwards compatibility problems later
[16:21] <lifeless> I think thats swings and roundabouts
[16:21] <lifeless> folk will learn to always put strict=False in
[16:21] <lifeless> it will never be able to go away.
[16:22] <jml> lifeless: good point.
[16:22] <lifeless> perhaps a parallel class
[16:22] <lifeless> or something like that
[16:22] <jml> lifeless: suggested names?
[16:22] <lifeless> ADRTIterating
[16:22] <lifeless> ADRTBrokenTwisted
[16:22] <lifeless> uhm
[16:23] <jml> lifeless: what advantage does that have over an option?
[16:23] <lifeless> jml: the non iterating codepath doesn't need conditionals
[16:24] <jml> lifeless: hmm
[16:25]  * jml gives it a shot
[16:25] <jml> lifeless: btw, would appreciate your thoughts on https://bugs.launchpad.net/testtools/+bug/654474
[16:25] <_mup_> Bug #654474: An unexpectedSuccess is like a failure not a success <regression> <selftest> <testtools> <Bazaar:Confirmed> <subunit:New> <testtools:In Progress by jml> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/654474>
[16:28] <lifeless> they are shallow, but added
[16:28] <lifeless> jml: I'd like us to do a release this week.
[16:28] <lifeless> And get it up to debian unstable
[16:28] <lifeless> is that reasonable?
[16:29] <jml> lifeless: yes, but as mentioned before, I would like to get this Launchpad branch that actually uses the deferred stuff landed before we do a release.
[16:29] <lifeless> jml: yes, I'm asking 'all things considered'
[16:29] <jml> lifeless: however, that seems likely to happen early this week.
[16:29] <jml> lifeless: and after that, a release would be very welcome.
[16:30] <lifeless> ok, please let me know if that is likely to slip, so that I can put 0.9.5 up - maxb is keen to help bzr in debian build sanely
[16:31] <lifeless> I've been thinking about the datamapping layer vs test parallelisation
[16:31] <lifeless> I'm still of the opinion that test parallelisation is past the really hard bit
[16:32] <lifeless> if I did nothing but it until the epic, it might be working by then
[16:32] <lifeless> but I don't think so - latency is going to be a killer on getting it all figured out and sorted.
[16:32] <lifeless> and I only have 3 work weeks between now and then
[16:32] <jml> lifeless: *nod*
[16:33] <jml> lifeless: I think parallelization needs someone to own it, coordinate, report on progress etc.
[16:33] <jml> lifeless: that is if we actually want to make progress on it
[16:33] <lifeless> So, balanced consideration - a data mapping layer, with test double - thats our most urgent infrastructural need with the largest payoff both short and long term.
[16:34] <lifeless> jml: I've found a small bug in the canonical.lp.host glue in my databasefixture branch, else that would have landed.
[16:34] <lifeless> and immediately after it my librarian branch.
[16:35] <jml> lifeless: what's your plan w/ data mapping layer then?
[16:35] <lifeless> jml: spend 9-10 days sketching and bootstrapping it
[16:35] <lifeless> jml: talk a lot
[16:36] <lifeless> jml: and at the epic recruit a task force for it
[16:36] <jml> lifeless: ok.
[16:36] <jml> lifeless: makes sense.
[16:36] <lifeless> oh, and do plenty of literature searches
[16:36] <lifeless> we *may* find something precanned that we can 'fix up'.
[16:37] <jml> lifeless: sounds a little big & risky, but a risk worth taking.
[16:37] <lifeless> jml: indeed
[16:38] <jml> lifeless: any feelings on diverging from stdlib unittest behaviour re unexpected success?
[16:38] <lifeless> I think we need to remove the 'please report bugs in launchpad' link from the footer.
[16:38] <lifeless> jml: I don't think the stdlib unittest behaviour has had a lot of user feedback and polish
[16:38] <lifeless> jml: remember that it was done in situ, not by merging an established implementation.
[16:39] <jml> *nod*
[16:39] <jml> lifeless: we need to have some way for users who find problems w/ Launchpad to report those problems.
[16:40] <lifeless> jml: agreed
[16:40] <lifeless> jml: we're getting primarily ubuntu bugs at the moment
[16:40] <jml> lifeless: fsvo "primarily"
[16:40] <lifeless> poolie filed a bug about the page we're directing them to and how it could help with the confusion
[16:40] <lifeless> jml: its about equal to genuine Launchpad bugs.
[16:41] <lifeless> jml: we're not dying, but none of those bug reports will get good treatment in Ubuntu because they aren't apport filed
[16:41] <lifeless> and many should be questions in the first place.
[16:41] <lifeless> s/q/Q/
[16:44] <lifeless> wtf with bug 606296
[16:44] <_mup_> Bug #606296: Fix codehosting acceptance tests to not use sample data <tech-debt> <openwns-app:Fix Released by www-martinez187> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/606296>
[17:02] <jml> shrug
[17:04] <lifeless> jml: new user confused by UI I guess
[17:13] <lifeless> jml: the link in the footer used to be edge only
[17:13] <lifeless> jml: I made them the same during the convergence part of unifying edge
[17:37] <jml> lifeless: ahh right
[17:37] <lifeless> jml: so I think rolling it back to what we had on prod before (nothing) will stop confusing users who are new to the environment.
[17:37] <jml> lifeless: indeed.
[17:37] <lifeless> jml: until we have a better UI for /launchpad/+filebug
[17:38] <lifeless>  - at which point I'd like to bring the link back, because I really value user feedback
[17:38] <lifeless> jml: you agree?
[17:38] <jml> lifeless: yeah
[17:39] <jml> lifeless: I also think we need to think more broadly about user feedback / beta stuff anyway
[17:39] <lifeless> agreed
[17:40] <jml> ok. that's all the tests running locally
[17:40] <jml> not sure how the ForBrokenTwisted experiment will pan out with actual use, but worth a shot
[17:41] <lifeless> well, how does the code look ?
[17:41] <lifeless> and how will we/users know when they can use the unbroken one?
[17:43] <jml> lifeless: they'll use the unbroken one by default. the trick is how do you know that the unclean warning you get is from your buggy tests or twisted's buggy APIs
[17:43] <lifeless> would it be feasible to whitelist?
[17:43] <jml> lifeless: I don't think so.
[17:44] <lifeless> jml: by twisted release?
[17:44] <lifeless> jml: I mean, release a new testtools in a few weeks when twisted is fixed
[17:44] <jml> lifeless: sorry, I don't understand what would actually be on the white list.
[17:45] <lifeless> jml: versions of twisted that are not broken.
[17:45] <jml> lifeless: oh right. but you can use it with current Twisted for many things
[17:56] <jml> lifeless: anyway, I'm doing a full test run now. mildly optimistic.
[17:58]  * jml off.
[18:03] <lifeless> gl
[22:24] <jml> lifeless: failures. looks like I'm going to have to practically rewrite the distributionmirror_prober tests.
[22:25] <lifeless> jml: can we land what you do have working ?
[22:25] <jml> lifeless: yeah, we could actually. Wouldn't be able to delete the old layers, of course
[22:26] <jml> lifeless: funny thing is, the failures in the distributionmirror tests only showed up in completely different tests. I wouldn't have known it was distributionmirror unless I had accidentally left DelayedCall debugging enabled
[22:27] <jml> lifeless: I'd like to poke a little to see if I can get the errors better lined up with the tests that caused them.
[22:27] <lifeless> that would be nice
[22:38] <lifeless> Time Out Counts by Page ID
[22:38] <lifeless> Hard	Soft	Page ID
[22:38] <lifeless> 3555	0	LoginToken:+accountmerge
[22:38] <lifeless> 266	54	Person:+commentedbugs
[22:38] <lifeless> 203	6295	Archive:+index
[22:38] <lifeless> 77	280	BugTask:+index
[22:38] <lifeless> 12	93	ProjectGroupSet:CollectionResource:#project_groups
[22:38] <lifeless> 10	245	Distribution:+bugtarget-portlet-bugfilters-stats
[22:38] <lifeless> 10	26	DistroSeries:+queue
[22:38] <lifeless> 10	9	Person:+bugs
[22:38] <lifeless> 8	1	BinaryPackageBuild:+retry
[22:38] <lifeless> 6	38	Milestone:+index
[22:38] <lifeless> 3553 https://launchpad.net/token/.../+accountmerge
[22:38] <lifeless> one url
[22:42] <jml> will get to both of those later, if I can.
[22:42] <lifeless> wgrant: do you know where sense Hofstede hangs out on IRC?
[22:42] <jml> bed for now
[22:42] <lifeless> jml: gnight
[22:45] <mwhudson> lifeless: he's 'sense' i think
[22:45] <lifeless> I think he has merge on autopost with wget ;)
[22:46] <mwhudson> hm?
[22:46] <mwhudson> oh
[22:47] <lifeless> mwhudson: https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/lpnet-oops.html - 3555 oopses, one url ;)
[22:47] <mwhudson> ah
[22:47] <mwhudson> that's a bit rude