[00:25] <virtuald> paultag: you're supposed to have a package training session now
[00:26] <virtuald> paultag: according to classbot it started 26 minutes ago :)
[00:39] <paultag> off-by-one virtuald :)
[00:40] <paultag> it's on sunday last I was told
[00:40] <paultag> unless...
[00:40] <paultag> crap, brb, food's burning
[00:44] <virtuald> paultag: twitter and google calendar says it's now :p
[00:44] <penguin42> google is all knowing
[00:44] <virtuald> yeah
[00:45] <virtuald> the closest thing to a god we have
[01:36] <paultag> shoot!
[02:44] <infinity__> hi all
[02:44] <infinity__> can i ask something
[02:45] <xelister> recent ubuntu updates destroyed my bitcoin miner program
[02:45] <xelister> it uses python a bit, and mostly opencl. With amd stream sdk, and closed source drivers.
[02:45] <xelister> Im trying to debug this...
[02:46] <xelister> - how to get packages as I had them 5 days ago? i.e. I know what packages I want to downgrade, now how to find out the version and do it?
[02:47] <xelister> - btw how to know exact gfx driver in use,  and version of fglrx, and of catalyst drivers (radeon)?
[02:49] <infinity__> some icons in the taskbar and the avatars in skype are broken, sometimes they are not (i`m using kubuntu)
[05:42] <vish> nisshh: no need to move 'new' bugs, only the triaged and inprogress , maybe the confirmed ones at times.. milestone the bugs only when you feel they are papercuts
[11:31] <devildante> anyone have text disappearing in natty?
[11:35] <ari-tczew> devildante: which text?
[11:36] <devildante> lemme explain
[11:37] <devildante> when logging in to gnome, the wallpaper + panels appears like usual, but any text on them doesn't
[11:37] <devildante> worse, ANY text from any window or dialog doesn't appear
[11:38] <yofel> (-> #ubuntu+1)
[11:39] <yofel> but I only heard of the panels not coming up at all, not yet that they appear but without text o.O
[11:41] <devildante> yofel: not only the panels, everything that has text on it
[11:41] <devildante> that includes terminal, menus, etc
[11:41] <yofel> no idea, I'm using KDE which works fine in natty
[11:41] <devildante> ah
[13:46] <BUGabundo> o/
[13:47] <AbhiJit> \o/
[15:11] <penguin42> I think bug 678125 should probably be set to wishlist
[15:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 678125 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "No A6 format preset in 'page' dialog (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678125
[15:13] <charlie-tca> I take it that is a different paper size; like letter, legal, A4?
[15:13] <penguin42> yeh
[15:14] <charlie-tca> Never heard of A6 before, myself. I agree with wishlist, though. will set it
[15:14] <penguin42> charlie-tca: It's one of the sequence of ISO paper sizes; they go smaller as you get a larger number; i.e. a6 is smaller than a5 is smaller than a4
[15:14] <penguin42> charlie-tca: http://www.ukofficedirect.co.uk/iso_paper_size_cp.aspx
[15:15] <charlie-tca> Probably needs to go upstream, too
[15:15] <charlie-tca> set it to wishlist
[15:16] <penguin42> I can upstream it
[15:17] <penguin42> I've never actually had a use for A6 that I can think of, A3,A4 and A5 are quite common
[15:19] <penguin42> hehe, I've just found an upstream bug which fixed i t - last week even though it had been open for ~4 years
[15:25]  * penguin42 reads the wikipedia page on paper sizes and learns a whole bunch of probably useless info
[15:29] <charlie-tca> thanks, penguin42.
[15:46] <penguin42> can someone set importance on bug 677955 - I suggest low
[15:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 677955 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Grub 1.98 crashes with command 'help b' (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677955
[15:49] <charlie-tca> Why is that even valid? I would think most commands if run by the alphabet will crash on some letters
[15:50] <charlie-tca> Or, does every crash mean it is a bug?
[15:52] <penguin42> help b     should display help on the b commands
[15:53] <penguin42> help should never crash
[15:53] <charlie-tca> yeah? Okay, triaged and low
[15:54] <charlie-tca> My new item learned today! Thanks
[15:54] <penguin42> charlie-tca: A command might tell you that a parameter is invalid or if the parameter is something like an address then it could do something evil, but in general it shouldn't hang the machine
[15:55] <charlie-tca> I agree with that. I did not know that help (letter) would display help for that letters commands. does that work everywhere or just in grub?
[15:56]  * charlie-tca hates the grub command line thingy
[15:56] <penguin42> help is a grub command
[15:56] <penguin42> bash also has it
[15:57] <charlie-tca> heh, Thanks so very much. I tend to even reinstall if it is a fresh install dropping me to the grub command line.
[15:58] <penguin42> I preferred old-grub1 but grub command line can get you out of one hell of a mess
[15:59] <charlie-tca> I suppose it can, I just try really hard not to use it
[16:01] <penguin42> it's got tab complete and stuff so it's not too bad - especially compared to what Grub1 setup was like in the early days
[16:02] <penguin42> (Anyone who understands Chinese might like to take a look at bug 677841 - google translate doesn't do a very good job)
[16:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 677841 in empathy (Ubuntu) "無法顯示名子，只顯示帳號 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677841
[16:03] <charlie-tca> Might be a good one to try the "convert to a question so it can be translated" thing
[16:03] <kklimonda> indeed, it's the new, proposed workflow
[16:03] <penguin42> well it's already got a forum discussion associated with it
[16:04] <charlie-tca> Still needs to be translated, though, right?
[16:04] <kklimonda> I still don't think it's worth an effort but meh, I'm not going to translate it myself :)
[16:04] <kklimonda> penguin42: forum discussion is also in Taiwanese
[16:45] <mortal> when will the new pidgin be uploaded?
[17:07] <kklimonda> new?
[17:08] <kklimonda> mortal: to natty, as soon as someone have time to do that. to previous releases never, unless you count in backports (in which case it's the same as natty - as soon as someone asks for it and developers have time to prepare a backport)
[17:14] <xelister> on ubuntu, how to check installed fglrx version?
[17:14] <penguin42> remind me, does ubuntu pull from sid or testing ?
[17:15] <xelister> debian guy thinks ubuntu sucks because dpkg can't even say what fglrx version it is, and debian does. version like 10.09 drivers etc
[17:16] <penguin42> what's the debian guy on? dpkg will show you the version of your package?
[17:17] <xelister> yeah but it shows stupid version, like
[17:18] <xelister> 2:8.780-0ubuntu2
[17:18] <penguin42> and why's that stupid?
[17:18] <xelister> well debian says
[17:18] <xelister> fglrx-driver   1:10-10-1
[17:19] <xelister> which is much more informative, because it refers to ATI's upstream version number (10.10) which is important in debugging etc with AMD/Ati
[17:20] <xelister> and here on Ubuntu if some Ati guys asks "what drivers you use, 10.10 or 10.9" I can't say
[17:20] <penguin42> hmm
[17:22] <xelister> 10.9 = 8.771      10.10 = 8.783
[17:22] <penguin42> and I don't think it's that out of date
[17:22] <penguin42> xelister: It should show the version in /var/log/Xorg.0.log anyway when you try and run it
[17:23] <xelister> ubuntu uses some strange version between officiall 10.9 and 10.10 (other guys say, probobly they are right)  why not just ship 10.10 based driver then (and btw, name it like, 2:8.780-0ubuntu2-catalyst-10-10-based or something)
[17:23] <xelister> Im on maverick
[17:24] <penguin42> I don't know the mechanics of how it gets packages - you could try #ubuntu-x
[17:24] <penguin42> xelister: However you might get further if you don't say it sucks; even if it isn't clear!
[17:26] <xelister> well I was toning down what he said lol
[17:26] <penguin42> hehe
[17:26] <xelister> anyhow, on #bitcoin-dev there are often interesting discussion about GFX hardware, also on linuxes and ubuntu. bbl
[17:50] <micahg> xelister: penguin42, we got a pre-release version of the AMD driver to ship with
[17:50] <penguin42> micahg: Yeh makes sense; so why the weird numbering?
[17:51] <micahg> penguin42: it's a pre-release version
[17:52] <penguin42> micahg: But I think what xelister is pointing is that the numbering doesn't look even similar tot eh ati numbering; the current ati numbering is 10.x
[17:52] <yofel> micahg: that means we only had pre-release versions? I can't remember the package ever having a logical version number
[17:52] <micahg> penguin42: no, that's the catalyst version, not the fglrx version
[17:53] <yofel> xelister: you should probably go to #ubuntu-x and ask Sarvatt. IIRC he makes the packages for the x-updates ppa so he should know where the numbers are from
[17:53] <micahg> yofel: huh?, no just for maverick we got the prerelease so we could ship with KMS for ATI AFAIK
[17:53] <penguin42> micahg: Ah there was only one number visible on the ATI website to casual inspection
[17:54] <yofel> micahg: ah, I didn't know there was a difference between catalyst and fglrx, I always assumed they're the same
[17:54] <yofel> most people that asked about ati ususally didn't make much of a difference there
[17:58] <yofel> then again, why do the debian folks use the catalyst version for the fglrx package then...
[17:59] <yofel> great, viewing the ati homepage crashed ffx4..
[18:00] <yofel> micahg: by the way... about the mozilla crash reporter: Just adding a comment what I was doing and sending the report is fine?
[18:01] <micahg> yofel: yep
[18:01] <micahg> yofel: we're working on getting access to those upstream crash reports as well in case there's an Ubuntu specific issue
[18:08] <xelister> krusader seems to be totall crap
[18:09] <xelister> it crashes. always. for long time.
[18:09] <xelister> will anyone ever fix it
[18:09] <xelister> crashed again, as usuall, when closing some tab
[18:09] <micahg> xelister: have you used the KDE crash reporting tool?
[18:11] <xelister> yeah I will. probably will not help anything.
[18:11] <xelister> also bugs there where reported many many times since always
[18:11] <xelister> same bugs
[18:48] <penguin42> hi can someone look at bug 65821 and tell me if they agree that it is not a dupe of 595321 ?
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 65821 in mutt (Ubuntu) "edgy beta - mutt sasl authentication broken (heat: 2)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65821
[18:48] <penguin42> try that again
[18:48] <penguin42> bug 658521
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 658521 in mountall (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "In Live session or installation HD not recognized (dup-of: 595321)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658521
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 595321 in linux (Ubuntu) "Sata drives not detected by 2.6.35.* kernels (affects: 6) (dups: 1) (heat: 54)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595321
[18:48] <penguin42> that's better
[18:49] <charlie-tca> It is a linux bug. We do not mark any bugs against the kernel as duplicates
[18:49] <charlie-tca> You need to have the kernel team review it for that. #ubuntu-kernel
[18:49] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Indeed - I think what confused it was that 658521 wasn't marked as Linux
[18:50] <penguin42> you can't tell who marked it as a dupe can you?
[18:50] <penguin42> (If it was one of the kernel guys I wouldn't undupe it - otherwise I think I should)
[18:51] <yofel> you can - full activity log (I think that's njin)
[18:51] <yofel> 2010-10-30 12:49:03 	Fabio Marconi 	marked as duplicate 		595321
[18:51] <charlie-tca> njin
[18:51] <charlie-tca> isn't it?
[18:51] <yofel> it is
[18:52] <penguin42> ok, I'll flip it to Linux and undupe it
[18:54] <micahg> :(
[18:58] <charlie-tca> Thanks again, penguin42. That was a good find
[18:58] <penguin42> someone on +1 seems to have the same controller
[23:15] <maco> lifeless: why shouldnt it be a bug on launchpad that launchpad is giving an incorrect command to users?
[23:15] <lifeless> maco: launchpad doesn't give that command
[23:16] <lifeless> maco: its just data configured by the ubuntu bug squad
[23:16] <lifeless> maco: also, its an ubuntu bug if they changed things incompatibly with their own messages
[23:17] <maco> well then the package would be apport
[23:17] <lifeless> perhaps
[23:17] <maco> but how does the message on lp get changed?
[23:18] <lifeless> just edit it
[23:20] <lifeless> I may be wrong, but I really wouldn't expect this to be code rather than data.
[23:21] <maco> edit it where?
[23:22] <JanC> I guess an ubuntu project owner has to set it or something like that?
[23:23] <micahg> what's the issue?
[23:24] <maco> the "please use ubuntu-bug" message on lp gives a deprecated syntax for how to use it
[23:24] <micahg> maco: where?
[23:24] <lifeless> this one
[23:24] <lifeless> xterm (Ubuntu) bug reporting guidelines:
[23:24] <lifeless> Please report bugs against xterm with this command:
[23:24] <lifeless>   $ ubuntu-bug -p xterm
[23:24] <lifeless> For more tips on effective bug reporting against Ubuntu Xorg packages, please see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting and thanks ahead of time!
[23:24] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xterm/+filebug
[23:25] <micahg> yeah, we can edit that
[23:26] <lifeless> maco: in summary: data in launchpad isn't a bug of launchpad itself.
[23:27] <maco> is there a better place to report such bugs than the blackhole of no-package-set?
[23:28] <lifeless> I don't know
[23:29] <lifeless> Is there a meta place for bugs about ubuntu itself: governance issues, TB issues etc.
[23:32] <lifeless> speaking of bug stuff
[23:33] <lifeless> anyone got an answer for the last question in bug 677558
[23:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 677558 in launchpad "launchpad chooses package fglrx-installer when reporting a bug for package fglrx (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677558
[23:38] <charlie-tca> lifeless: yes, there is a way.
[23:38] <charlie-tca> I don't how practical it is or how to implement it though.
[23:38] <charlie-tca> I can use https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search  to search for any package, binary or source.
[23:39] <charlie-tca> If it is a binary package, it will give me the source it is in
[23:41] <charlie-tca> Since launchpad bugs are always filed against source packages, searching for fglrx shows me fglrx-installer as the package affected
[23:48] <lifeless> charlie-tca: yeah, but how can we communicate better with users that don't know this structure
[23:49] <charlie-tca> Education?
[23:49] <charlie-tca> We need to educate the users either through classes or documentation.
[23:51] <charlie-tca> perhaps we need to review the procedures we (bug triagers) use. Why do we insist on telling the reporter "you made a mistake. The package should have been..." instead of just changing it to the correct package
[23:52] <charlie-tca> The reporter should be able to tell us "this is a bug I found." Part of triaging is to insure the package is correct. The reporter did not make a mistake.