[00:58] <virmin> Evenin' all
[00:59] <virmin> Quick(ish!) question... if you currently had 3 x 1.5TB disks in a RAID 10, and has another matching disk spare... would you a) keep it as a hot-spare, or b) migrate your data onto other disks and re-use the existing three and the new one, in a new 4-disk RAID10?
[01:03] <penguin42> how are you doing RAID10 with 3 disks?
[01:03] <virmin> mdraid
[01:04] <virmin> and far too
[01:04] <penguin42> no, I mean how do you get 10 with 3 disks - 10 is normally mirror+stripe, I don't see how to do that with 3
[01:05] <virmin> Yeah, it's using softraid:
[01:05] <virmin> cat /proc/mdstat
[01:05] <virmin> Personalities : [raid10] [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4]
[01:05] <virmin> md2 : active raid10 sdd2[2] sdb2[0] sdc2[1]
[01:05] <virmin>       2197414656 blocks 256K chunks 2 far-copies [3/3] [UUU]
[01:06]  * penguin42 still doesn't get what md actually does when you ask it for a raid10 on 3 discs
[01:06] <virmin> "normal" RAID10, yes, would require 4 disks but, mdraid has a non-standard implementation
[01:07] <virmin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_RAID_levels#Linux_MD_RAID_10
[01:08] <virmin> I was hoping to be able to add the fourth disk to it, and it would sort itself out but, this is still not implemented... for understandable reasons as well!
[01:09] <penguin42> well, I didn't know it could do that
[01:10] <penguin42> I'd add a 4th drive as a hot spare
[01:10] <penguin42> mind you, it's all swings and roundabouts
[01:11] <hamitron> whenever I want to change mine, I find it hard to find somewhere to move teh data while I rebuild everything :/
[01:12] <virmin> Yup, and I didn't realise when I build the array, that I couldn't grow it either :/
[01:12] <virmin> I've got the 4 x 1.5TB disks but, "only" has 1.3TB of data, and have an assortment of other disks to hand... a couple of 1TB SATAs, and a rake of PATA's
[01:13] <hamitron> so it sounds like you are better kitted out than me :)
[01:14] <virmin> The disadvantage I have, is that this box is a server, and has multiple domain name MX records pointed at it... I could do without the downtime
[01:14] <virmin> It it though, purely personal, so I could direct my mail to a gmail account and deal with it later of course
[01:15] <virmin> The missus would be displeased if I accidentally read one of the email detailing my xmas presents! :D
[01:15] <hamitron> you not got a spare machine to swap in?
[01:15] <virmin> Only other machines these days are laptops/netbooks
[01:16] <virmin> looked early at a NAS box but, wasn't overly keen on them
[01:16] <hamitron> my main fileserver is a NAS now
[01:16] <virmin> Might have to export my data to a single disk, then sort the OS first and look at data when the time comes
[01:17] <hamitron> or you could be lazy and just not do anything... if everything is working ;)
[01:18] <hamitron> but that is boring, so don't listen to me
[01:18] <virmin> There is that.  The existing LVMs df-h --total reads:  "total                 1.7T  1.3T  351G  79%"
[01:18] <virmin> I've 300GB left unallocated on the RAID
[01:19] <virmin> Just a bit miffed having paid £65 for another disk that I can't easily play with...
[01:19] <hamitron> yeh
[01:20] <virmin> I'm sure I've got a 1TB SATA disk sat unused in my hd streamer box
[01:21] <virmin> The other 1TB disk failed (this was my old RAID0 job)
[01:21] <hamitron> I'm on RAID 0 now :/
[01:21] <hamitron> which itself is not a bad thing
[01:22] <hamitron> main problem is I have run out of space on my servers, so I have data stored on it :/
[01:22] <virmin> I moved from RAID0 (two disks) to RAID10 (three disks)
[01:22] <virmin> You know the risks with RAID0 though
[01:22] <hamitron> yeh
[01:23] <hamitron> tbh, I never run RAID on my fileserver here
[01:23] <hamitron> if I was to run raid, it would be mirroring... but I choose to use the extra disk as a backup medium because uptime is not important to me
[01:24] <virmin> The RAID is just for uptime... I've got automated backups of essential data but, I'd like to keep the likes of AV online too
[01:25] <virmin> I've got 2 x RAID10's, one for /boot, and the other is the remainder of the disks, which I make use of LVM2 over
[01:25] <hamitron> can you not remove the 3rd disk to be left with striping, then add them both after?
[01:25] <virmin> Pretty non-standard
[01:25] <hamitron> to have true RAID 10
[01:26] <virmin> Nope... as it's not RAID-1 over RAID-0 in the true sense... it's the funky mdraid-10 implementation
[01:26] <hamitron> ah
[01:26] <hamitron> :)
[01:26] <virmin> At the moment, I'm thinking I'd best leave it be, and keep the new drive as a hot-swap
[01:26] <hamitron> that is certainly easiest
[01:27] <virmin> I'm getting average reads over 300MB/s anyway
[01:27] <virmin> They're Seagate 7200.11's
[01:27] <virmin> I need more SATA ports!
[01:27] <hamitron> :)
[01:27] <hamitron> that was my next question
[01:27] <virmin> Got 4 on the mobo, and 2 x 2 PATAs
[01:27] <hamitron> "any spare sata ports?"
[01:28] <hamitron> :D
[01:28] <virmin> Got one PATA device, and that's my DVDRW
[01:28] <virmin> Best hope I don't need more space soon then! :)
[01:28] <Azelphur> who wants to play help the Azelphur build the aquarium to house his new PC? :D
[01:28] <virmin> I would do if VirtualBox x64 worked for me
[01:28] <hamitron> you don't sound as greedy as some here
[01:29] <hamitron> speak of the devil, Azelphur
[01:29] <hamitron> ;/
[01:29] <Azelphur> you spoke of me? :D
[01:29] <hamitron> "as greedy as some here"
[01:29] <virmin> This box is up 24/7 365 anyway... unless a new kernel needs a reboot
[01:29] <virmin> I'm running 10,04 on that box
[01:30] <Azelphur> haha
[01:30] <hamitron> 10,04 to me is like new :/
[01:30] <virmin> Got 10.10 on my netbook... missus still has 10.04 on her laptop
[01:31] <Azelphur> so, I'm building the motherboard tray out of acrylic which will be cool
[01:31] <Azelphur> I'm sorta pondering the aquarium problem, Acrylic won't really be strong enough for it
[01:31] <hamitron> Azelphur: why?
[01:31] <virmin> Fish?
[01:31] <Azelphur> hamitron: because acrylic is cheap and lightweight and as transparent as glass?
[01:32] <Azelphur> hamitron: did you not hear the whole submerged computer plan?
[01:32] <virmin> I keep reptiles myself... not a good mix... heat for them, cool for the PC
[01:32] <Azelphur> haha
[01:32] <Azelphur> I want to do mineral oil submersion
[01:32] <hamitron> I just don't see why acrylic would not be strong enough
[01:32] <Azelphur> hamitron: for an aquarium with 5 gallons of mineral oil in it?
[01:32] <virmin> Depends upon the volume of liquid maybe?
[01:32] <Azelphur> and I can only find 3mm acrylic
[01:33] <Azelphur> acrylic is pretty bendy
[01:33] <virmin> gallons... millimeters?  Stick to imperial or metric ;)
[01:33] <Azelphur> virmin: google 5 gallons in <x> for your preferred unit :)
[01:33] <hamitron> you could build a metal frame
[01:33] <virmin> (he says pouring a pint of vodka, and ginger ale)
[01:34] <Azelphur> hamitron: nah, that wouldn't look too cool
[01:34] <hamitron> but I reckon 3mm is thick enough if built correctly
[01:34] <Azelphur> virmin: 40 pints lol
[01:34] <virmin> thanks Azelphur, I already knew that but... keeping lizards, it's not so much overall volume that matters but, overall dimensions :)
[01:34] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:34] <virmin> ;)
[01:34] <Azelphur> hamitron: I dunno, I have a sheet of 3mm acrylic already for the motherboard tray
[01:34] <Azelphur> It's really quite bendy
[01:35] <Azelphur> I'd prefer to go overkill on the aquarium...I mean it is going to be holding 5 gallons of oil in my bedroom
[01:35] <Azelphur> that shit breaks and I'm going to be murdered
[01:35] <hamitron> could you not buy a tank for the task?
[01:36] <Azelphur> I could but I wasn't much a fan of hacking a tank
[01:36] <virmin> You want to count yourself lucky... smallest enclosure for mine is 1m x 0.5m x 0,5m
[01:36] <Azelphur> virmin: lol
[01:36] <Azelphur> I guess I could buy one though
[01:36] <Azelphur> might be difficult to find a motherboard sized aquarium
[01:36] <hamitron> the main concern I'd have, is the joints if you are just fitting sheets together
[01:37] <hamitron> assuming you find the rigid enough sheets
[01:37] <virmin> Heheh... smallest for the most demanding is 1.25m x 1.25m x 0.5m
[01:37] <virmin> ;)
[01:37] <hamitron> :|
[01:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:38] <Azelphur> maybe buy a tank and hack it instead then, It would be more reliable
[01:38] <hamitron> you could mount the clear sheet you got in it
[01:38] <hamitron> to put the mobo on?
[01:38] <Azelphur> yes that's what I want to do
[01:38] <Azelphur> the sheet I have is for the mobo either way
[01:38] <virmin> If you kept chinese water dragons, you could mix the water cooling on your processor with heating their pool! :D
[01:39] <hamitron> :D
[01:39] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:39] <Azelphur> so yea, first things first I suppose I need to get this nice sheet of acrylic made into a mobo tray :D
[01:39] <hamitron> and you could use your arduino for climate control Azelphur
[01:39] <Azelphur> and for that I need a cheap drill, suggestions? :D
[01:39] <hamitron> gets too cold, overclocks the cpu
[01:39] <Azelphur> hamitron: haha :D
[01:40] <Azelphur> hamitron: I was thinking more attach huge radiators and overclock an i7 to 5ghz
[01:40] <virmin> If I was in your shoes, I'd be making a second sealed enclosure for my PC... bit like double-insulation
[01:40] <hamitron> you are using the oil for cooling?
[01:40] <Azelphur> virmin: yea I thought of that, if I build it myself I probably will, if I buy an aquarium maybe not
[01:40] <Azelphur> hamitron: yes
[01:40] <hamitron> or vacuum sealed so no noise....
[01:41] <Azelphur> both?
[01:41] <hamitron> hmmm
[01:41] <virmin> Vacuum sealed... need to overcome the additional pressure exhorted by the water-tank
[01:41] <hamitron> would a comp work in a vacuum?
[01:41] <virmin> The weight of the water would be greater than normal atmospheric pressure
[01:42] <virmin> And, even then, it's temperature dependant
[01:42] <Azelphur> hamitron: I was just talking about air tight really
[01:42] <Azelphur> like a normal aquarium
[01:42] <Azelphur> it doesn't need to be completely silent, I'm not too finicky about that
[01:42]  * hamitron is
[01:42] <hamitron> ;)
[01:42] <Azelphur> I'm quite happy with my Antec 1200 that has like 6 fans in it and I sleep in the same room
[01:42] <virmin> f*** me, and I thought I was insane with my RAID madness
[01:42] <virmin> :D
[01:42] <hamitron> even though my fans are at 0 rpm atm :/
[01:43] <Azelphur> granted the fans are on low, but I doubt my aquarium rig will get anywhere near that load no matter what I do
[01:43] <Azelphur> loud*
[01:44] <Azelphur> hamitron: my basic idea to start with was to get the aquarium sorted and a radiator and a filter
[01:44] <hamitron> filter?
[01:44] <Azelphur> apparently it builds up dust over a while
[01:44] <hamitron> ah :)
[01:45] <hamitron> thought you were going to change the oil to water, and have tropical fish in with the mobo
[01:45] <Azelphur> puget systems have had an oil cooled rig running for 3 years now
[01:45] <Azelphur> haha :D
[01:45] <virmin> My Antec 1200 case needs its filters cleaning every few weeks :(
[01:45] <hamitron> :/
[01:46] <Azelphur> virmin: I havn't looked at my antec 1200's filters in a year
[01:46]  * Azelphur runs
[01:46] <hamitron> I never get clogged filters in mine
[01:46] <hamitron> ;)
[01:46] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:46] <Azelphur> so yea first things first drill to make holes in acrylic, suggestions?
[01:46] <Azelphur> doesn't need to be an amazing drill, cheap and cheerful is good for me
[01:46] <virmin> The room mine's in, is down to bare plaster...
[01:46] <hamitron> suggestions for what?
[01:46] <Azelphur> hamitron: a drill
[01:46] <hamitron> screwfix?
[01:47] <hamitron> ebay?
[01:47] <Azelphur> no particular brands that are good?
[01:47] <hamitron> Dad's toolbox
[01:47] <hamitron> hmmm
[01:47] <Azelphur> hamitron: except me and my dad havn't talked in over a year :p
[01:47] <hamitron> imo, it shouldn't matter if you are doing something light
[01:48] <Azelphur> cheep and cheerful little drill from argos? http://tinyurl.com/27yq6f4
[01:48] <hamitron> in soft acrylic you could just about use a drill bit with your fingers ;)
[01:48] <Azelphur> haha yea true, acrylic is pretty weak
[01:49] <hamitron> some is
[01:49] <hamitron> ;/
[01:49] <Azelphur> also don't suppose you happen to know the bolts/risers/... I'm going to need to mount the motherboard?
[01:49] <hamitron> think about it
[01:50] <hamitron> you don't need a drill
[01:50] <hamitron> you could just use wood screws
[01:50] <hamitron> unless you feel it would be too weak
[01:51] <Azelphur> I'm a weakling and I'd probably end up messing up if I didn't have something to cut through it like butter
[01:53] <Azelphur> hamitron: happen to know the stuff I need nut/bolt wise?
[01:53] <Azelphur> I assume I'd need a bolt with a couple nuts either side and some washers to raise the mobo properly
[01:53] <hamitron> that is 1 option
[01:53] <hamitron> but I'd use 1 nut
[01:54] <Azelphur> fun
[01:54] <Azelphur> the other cool idea I had would be to put the motherboard on draw type rails so I could lift the motherboard up and suspend it above the aquarium for maintenance
[01:54] <hamitron> could use a star washer if you feel vibration will be high
[01:55] <hamitron> or build a hydralics system the comp comtrols?
[01:55] <hamitron> :D
[01:55] <Azelphur> haha
[01:55] <hamitron> controls
[01:56] <virmin> Why not hand drill it?
[01:56] <Azelphur> (01:51:09) Azelphur: I'm a weakling and I'd probably end up messing up if I didn't have something to cut through it like butter
[01:56] <virmin> Ah
[01:56] <hamitron> you could probably use an old soldering iron
[01:56] <virmin> Sorry, was sampling some JD & ginger
[01:56] <hamitron> ;/
[01:57] <Azelphur> haha I doubt that'd come out neat somehow
[01:57] <hamitron> probably not :)
[01:57] <Azelphur> I'd be dubious as to how neat hand drilled would come out too even if I wasn't a feeble person :p
[01:58] <hamitron> another option....
[01:58] <hamitron> cut the thread off these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC-COMPUTER-PLASTIC-SCREW-IN-MOTHERBOARD-STANDOFFS-X-10-/380288890431?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item588afbf63f
[01:58] <hamitron> and glue them on
[01:58] <hamitron> or even glue them in a hole without taking the thread off
[01:59] <Azelphur> and the motherboard just drops onto them like a clip?
[01:59] <hamitron> yes
[01:59] <Azelphur> no need for screws I sorta like it
[01:59] <hamitron> not as strong
[01:59] <Azelphur> they look a bit flimsy though I wonder if they'd stand up in oil
[01:59] <Azelphur> yea
[01:59] <hamitron> well
[02:00] <hamitron> the weight of the cpu cooler would worry me more
[02:00] <Azelphur> yea, It's gonna be a big one
[02:00] <hamitron> oh yeh ;/
[02:00] <Azelphur> as big as possible in order to have maximum oil contact
[02:01] <Azelphur> so yea probably best to stick with big ol chunks of metal for that one
[02:01] <hamitron> how often does it need an oil change?
[02:01] <Azelphur> it doesn't
[02:01] <hamitron> or service :D
[02:01] <Azelphur> ^ in theory
[02:02] <hamitron> I'd personally go for super glue with the clips
[02:02] <hamitron> and drill/tap holes in the acrylic for them
[02:02] <Azelphur> http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/coolx/zalman9700/zalman9700-onmobo.jpg I'm probably sticking something at least that big on there
[02:03] <hamitron> and apply glue to thread to hold them tight
[02:04] <hamitron> have you never used these clips?
[02:04] <Azelphur> no
[02:04] <Azelphur> I've never really built a computer before, that's what makes this extra fun
[02:04] <hamitron> :(
[02:04] <hamitron> now I am worrying
[02:04] <Azelphur> I mean I know the usual stuff, I shuffle HDDs and Opticals every 5 minutes
[02:04] <hamitron> your first comp build will be an oil tank?
[02:05] <Azelphur> and I've replaced the odd PSU
[02:05] <Azelphur> yup, I'm crazy
[02:05] <hamitron> yes
[02:05] <hamitron> haha
[02:05] <Azelphur> I also reflashed my G1 (£200), Linksys WRT610N (£120?) and hard-modded my G19 (£120) all within an hour of unboxing
[02:06] <Azelphur> :D
[02:06] <directhex> the zalman 9700 is small by modern standards
[02:06] <hamitron> I reckon the clips would hold it
[02:06] <Azelphur> directhex: just some random zalman cooler I google'd, havn't selected a cooler yet
[02:07] <Azelphur> hamitron: but yea that's why I'm talking a lot about it pretty much everywhere, getting lots of good input from everyone so hopefully it'll come out ok :D
[02:07] <directhex> http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/125/Mtd-15.jpg isn't that big anymore either
[02:07] <hamitron> oh Azelphur, is it mounted vertically?
[02:07] <Azelphur> I'mma build and test the tank before I buy any hardware so worst case scenario I waste the money I spent on the tank
[02:07] <Azelphur> directhex: haha
[02:08] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea
[02:08] <Azelphur> I could change that I suppose, it would solve the heat sink weighing half a tonne and bending the mobo
[02:08] <directhex> http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Scythe-Orochi-Meet-the-Largest-CPU-Cooler-Ever-4.jpg/ ?
[02:08] <Azelphur> would be easier to access the board too wouldn't need the drawer rails
[02:09] <Azelphur> directhex: haha, bet that'd go good in oil
[02:09] <hamitron> do you have an oil pump for this?
[02:09] <directhex> mineral oil cooling? good luck.
[02:10] <Azelphur> directhex: ty :D
[02:10] <Azelphur> hamitron: nope
[02:10] <hamitron> directhex: for his first comp build ;/
[02:10] <hamitron> gets better \o/
[02:10] <Azelphur> hamitron: no point building if you don't have fun with it *shrug*
[02:10] <ali1234> building computers isn't exactly hard though
[02:10] <ali1234> chosing the right cmponents is hard
[02:11] <hamitron> true
[02:11] <Azelphur> ^ true
[02:11] <ali1234> plugging them all in isn't
[02:11] <Azelphur> but yea with the whole oil thing I'm just taking everything one step at a time, not running out and spending £1.6k on the hopes it'll work here
[02:11] <directhex> pfft
[02:11] <Azelphur> If this fails I'll probably loose no more than £50
[02:11] <directhex> oil's for wusses
[02:11] <Azelphur> directhex: haha, what's wrong with oil? :D
[02:11] <directhex> real men run phase change cooling
[02:11] <hamitron> water \o/
[02:12] <Azelphur> directhex: also that heat sink is pretty cheap I could actually buy that lol
[02:12] <Azelphur> tis only $80
[02:12] <directhex> actually, phase change is totally old hat now too
[02:13] <Azelphur> I don't think any form of water cooling can come close to mineral oil
[02:13] <directhex> real men just put a giant metal hollow cylinder on their cpu, and keep pouring liquid nitrogen into it
[02:13] <Azelphur> just by the simple logic of copper > any liquid
[02:13] <hamitron> "real men", haha
[02:13] <Azelphur> directhex: haha, true true :D
[02:13] <directhex> fwiw you can buy a retail motherboard where that's the cooling solution just for the mobo chipset
[02:13] <directhex> not the cpu, just the mobo chipset
[02:13] <hamitron> "real men" have nothing lacking, so have no need to try make up for it in other ways ;/
[02:15] <Azelphur> directhex: yea but imo mineral oil is about as good as it gets short of dice/nitro/hydrogen
[02:15] <directhex> http://www.foxconnchannel.com/product/motherboards/detail_overview.aspx?id=en-us0000430 - " Swap out the NB parts to configure it for air, water or more extreme forms of cooling!"
[02:15] <Azelphur> and of course flurinert
[02:15] <Azelphur> basically mineral oil is about the best bang for your buck cooling
[02:15] <directhex> Azelphur: ever wondered why it's so uncommon?
[02:16] <Azelphur> directhex: because it's difficult to maintain
[02:16] <Azelphur> and ship
[02:16] <Azelphur> and it's generally a nightmare for anyone but an enthusiast
[02:16] <hamitron> why the need to have the mobo swimming in it?
[02:16] <Azelphur> hamitron: because then you can have heat sinks the size of a small planet
[02:16] <directhex> Azelphur: i'm talking about enthusiasts.
[02:16] <Azelphur> directhex: dunno, it scares people I think
[02:17] <Azelphur> the enthusiasts all say "eww, dirty"
[02:17] <Azelphur> at least that's the reaction I got from various enthusiasts and blogs
[02:17] <hamitron> what scares me, would be wanting to change hdd and stuff and the mess :/
[02:17] <directhex> Azelphur: oil cooling is way, way, way, way, way off the bottom of the popularity list. second hand vapochills are way more common
[02:17] <Azelphur> they want to constantly tweak and oil submersion makes this difficult
[02:17] <Azelphur> directhex: why do you think it's uncommon?
[02:17] <Azelphur> hamitron: hdd/optical stays out
[02:18] <hamitron> that makes it boring then :/
[02:18] <Azelphur> hamitron: not really they don't need cooling just pointless heat generation :p
[02:18] <directhex> Azelphur: because i hang around pc enthusiast communities, and i have never heard of anyone doing mineral oil other than as a joke
[02:18] <hamitron> my hdd are the hottest part of my comp
[02:18] <Azelphur> psu probably stays out too
[02:18] <hamitron> hmmm
[02:19] <Azelphur> directhex: well it the premise of full submersion obviously works reasonably well, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it with super computers
[02:19] <Azelphur> granted they are using flurinert but mineral oil isn't a bad budget alternative to that
[02:19] <hamitron> you know how the chip frier gets solid bits in the oil? :/
[02:19] <ali1234> aren't all supercomputers built of white box commodity  PCs these days?
[02:19] <directhex> Azelphur: which supercomputers would those be?
[02:19] <directhex> ali1234: yes
[02:19] <Azelphur> directhex: most if not all of the cray series
[02:19] <ali1234> if they melt you just buy some more and its no big deal
[02:20] <Azelphur> ali1234: indeed
[02:20] <ali1234> i'm not convinced about this mineral oil plan :)
[02:20] <ali1234> i can see several problems
[02:20] <Azelphur> ali1234: go for it
[02:21] <directhex> Azelphur: cray isn't immersion based
[02:21] <ali1234> first, you still going to have hot spots just like with air cooling
[02:21] <hamitron> I have visions of the oil clogging up the fins
[02:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: yup,
[02:21] <directhex> Azelphur: current gen cray is phase change
[02:21] <Azelphur> hamitron: fans survived fine in that 3 year old puget systems box
[02:21] <ali1234> second, the oil isn't conductive when you build it... but it only takes one leaking capacitor...
[02:22] <directhex> Azelphur: you're thinking of the cray 2, which is... not relevant in 2010
[02:22] <Azelphur> directhex: true
[02:22] <ali1234> third, it will be super heavy...
[02:22] <directhex> of the modern generation of crays, XT3/4 are air cooled, XT5 is phase change
[02:23] <Azelphur> ali1234: heavy really couldn't care less about
[02:23] <Azelphur> it's not moving anywhere :p
[02:23] <ali1234> well as long as you don't put it on the second floor of your house... you will get cracks in the clielings below and stuff :)
[02:23] <ali1234> *ceilings
[02:24] <Azelphur> directhex: does phase change require constant refuelling?
[02:24] <hamitron> "Azelphur: I'm a weakling"
[02:24] <hamitron> ;/
[02:24] <Azelphur> ali1234: I'm on the 3rd floor and I have a huge desk quad screen and an antec 1200 up here
[02:24] <directhex> Azelphur: no. but for consumer phase change, it requires very careful handling of condensation
[02:24] <hamitron> slightly misquoted
[02:24] <Azelphur> ali1234: I doubt that the tank will weigh more than a person, or a populated cupboard. I don't think it's that bigger deal
[02:25] <directhex> Azelphur: sub-zero temperatures means condensation and.or ice forming on nearby components
[02:25] <Azelphur> I like this sub-zero part though
[02:26] <hamitron> :/
[02:26] <ali1234> i'd be worried about the fire hazard too
[02:27] <Azelphur> ali1234: I checked into the fire hazard stuff the ignition point of mineral oil is 170C, plus the obvious lack of oxygen in a submerged environment, it should act as a fire suppressant
[02:27] <Azelphur> but I am totally interested in phase change :)
[02:28] <Azelphur> directhex: how much does a phase change kit set you back?
[02:28] <directhex> Azelphur: 500 or so, starting price? :>
[02:28] <Azelphur> youch, there goes half mu budget :p
[02:28] <ali1234> phase change needs a compressor though right?
[02:28] <hamitron> why not just get a bit nicer comp?
[02:28] <ali1234> so it's not going to be quiet
[02:29] <hamitron> ie more ram
[02:29] <hamitron> ;/
[02:29] <Azelphur> so I guess the question I should be asking is, "Is mineral oil cooling cost effective compared to other cooling methods"
[02:29] <Azelphur> I reckon I can build the mineral cooling setup for about £150, so what could I get for that?
[02:29] <hamitron> air is cheapest imo
[02:30] <Azelphur> but I wouldn't be able to clock it very high
[02:30] <ali1234> CPU is not the bottleneck these days anyway
[02:30] <ali1234> crap software is :(
[02:30] <Azelphur> haha
[02:31] <hamitron> I'd rather have 16Gb RAM with air cooling, than 8Gb with oil
[02:31] <Azelphur> hamitron: and I'd rather have 6GB than 8GB for tri channel
[02:31] <hamitron> gotta get 24Gb then :/
[02:32] <Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/building-my-dream-oil-submerged-computer take a look at the hardware I picked out so far
[02:32] <hamitron> or 15gb
[02:32] <hamitron> if you can get 15
[02:32] <hamitron> ;/
[02:32] <directhex> ocz has a budget system
[02:32] <Azelphur> directhex: 1k is budget? :/
[02:33] <directhex> $379.99
[02:33] <directhex> for phase change, that's budget
[02:33] <Azelphur> oh that ain't bad for phase change
[02:33] <Azelphur> but I'm in the UK here, I doubt I'll get it for the US price
[02:33] <hamitron> 850W psu?
[02:34] <hamitron> geez
[02:34] <Azelphur> hamitron: gotta remember I was intending on clocking this a lot
[02:34] <hamitron> suppose
[02:34] <hamitron> but 850W is a lot of power in todays "green" mindset
[02:34] <hamitron> :)
[02:35] <Azelphur> when I get rich I'll build a wind farm to offset my power hungry activities.
[02:36] <Azelphur> directhex: what's the model of that phase change?
[02:36] <Azelphur> I'll try and find it cheap
[02:36] <hamitron> criminal to put such a nice spec comp in oil :/
[02:36] <directhex> cryo-z. but as standard it only has 755 and am2 mounts. the modern mounts are exclusive to frozencpu.com
[02:37] <Azelphur> yea I'm starting to move over to you guys way of thinking on the mineral oil idea
[02:37] <Azelphur> I see
[02:37] <virmin> synthetic then!?
[02:37] <virmin> *rejoins*
[02:37] <Azelphur> lol
[02:39] <virmin> Sorry, there's been a lot of chat since I was last on, and it's late/early so as I'm unlikely to hang about much, I'll just play catchup :)
[02:39] <hamitron> Azelphur: you have £120 left
[02:39] <Azelphur> \o/
[02:39] <Azelphur> I can go over a bit if necessary
[02:40] <hamitron> sounds like enough for a good case and air cooling to me
[02:40] <virmin> lol... sounds like me!  I set a ball-park entry price... then go overboard! :D
[02:40] <hamitron> :)
[02:41] <hamitron> I am mostly the other way
[02:41] <virmin> Fortunately Mrs V doesn't care less, it's my money
[02:41] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:41] <hamitron> I gave myself £300 for upgrades lately, and have settled at spending £94
[02:41] <virmin> I upgrade rarely
[02:42] <virmin> When I do, it tends to be during winter, when I'm stuck in at home and not wanting to do much outdoors! :D
[02:42] <hamitron> :)
[02:42] <hamitron> I only decided to because I got a new game that struggled
[02:43] <virmin> She doesn't care, as long as her laptop's working and I'm serving her email :)
[02:43] <hamitron> I like to use stuff till it breaks :/ computers never break fast enough
[02:43] <virmin> I soft-modded her wii for games
[02:43] <Azelphur> well, I'm depressed now I've been dreaming about building the amazing submerged oil rig for 4 years :p
[02:44] <hamitron> :/
[02:44] <Azelphur> lol
[02:44] <hamitron> build a leaning tower of mobo
[02:44] <virmin> The wii mod, was on the promise that if it went wrong, I'd buy her another one! :D
[02:44] <ali1234> get a hexapod robot instead, or something
[02:45] <ali1234> much more entertaining
[02:45] <hamitron> design and build a robot \o/
[02:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: nooo, the flying ones are better
[02:45] <hamitron> or learn electronics first ;)
[02:45] <ali1234> you don't need to know electronics to build robots these days
[02:45] <Azelphur> directhex: what's your opinion on bong/evaporation cooling?
[02:45] <ali1234> build it with openservos
[02:45] <Azelphur> or anyone else feel free to chip in
[02:45] <hamitron> pfffffft
[02:45] <Azelphur> that's the other idea that's been thrown around
[02:46] <virmin> ./configure && make && make install ;)
[02:46] <hamitron> fun to "know it all"
[02:46] <hamitron> ;/
[02:46] <virmin> I'm gonna go up to bed after this next drink, I'm rather well done! :|
[02:47] <hamitron> :)
[02:51] <virmin> Right, I'm off... cheers for the RAID chat :)
[03:13] <StudentSam> I hate how my university internet connection blocks SMTP; I can't send email using Evolution. :(
[09:04] <daubers> Morning
[09:25] <danfish> hello
[09:25] <daubers> This is _awesome_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLgJ7pk0X-s
[09:36] <danfish> they are rather good - saw them in concert a few months ago
[10:34] <Zabadda> Morning
[10:37] <Zabadda> I have just reinstalled Windows and Ubuntu on my drive as a dual boot (windows first) but when I restart Grub does not pick up the windows partition, but I can mount it when booted in Ubuntu so its there somewhere, any ideas how to get grub to pick it up?
[10:44] <directhex> Zabadda: what does "sudo os-prober" return?
[10:46] <Zabadda> command not found :P lol
[10:51] <neptune> anybody used pstack before? when i run it , it complains " opening object file: No such file or directory". anybody to help?
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> what is it?
[10:51] <nperry> Zabadda: I suggest sudo apt-get install os-prober
[10:51] <nperry> Zabadda: then run it
[10:52] <Zabadda> ah ok let's see...
[10:52] <Zabadda> /dev/sda1:Windows Vista (loader):Windows:chain
[10:53] <nperry> Should have added it to grub now for you
[10:53] <Zabadda> oh really ok let me restart and ill report back :)
[10:55] <Zabadda> nope still nothing in grub
[10:56] <Zabadda> what is annoying is ive done this loads of times before in the past and never had a problem
[10:57] <finelytuned> morning all
[10:57] <Zabadda> morning
[10:59] <jacobw> morning
[11:00] <directhex> Zabadda: after installing os-prober, run sudo upddate-grub
[11:01] <Zabadda> ah ha!
[11:01] <Zabadda> Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic-pae
[11:01] <Zabadda> Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic-pae
[11:01] <Zabadda> Found memtest86+ image: /boot/memtest86+.bin
[11:01] <Zabadda> Found Windows Vista (loader) on /dev/sda1
[11:02] <Zabadda> looks like that might of done it
[11:02] <Zabadda> ok back in a sec
[11:04] <Zabadda> woo! cheers for the help its fixed!
[11:04] <Zabadda> any ideas why it went wrong tho?
[11:08] <Zabadda> right ill get on reinstalling everything now so cheers guys
[11:14] <bigcalm> Hi kids
[11:14] <finelytuned> o/
[11:18] <nucc1> has anyone here had any trouble using a nameserver because "its not listed at the foreign registry"?
[11:25] <popey> lo bigcalm
[11:25] <popey> bigcalm: I've started making a railway to connect all my houses :)
[11:27] <dutchie> hmm
[11:27] <dutchie> i could either use today to get ahead on problem sheets, or i could get minecraft
[11:28] <bigcalm> popey: I guess it's heavy on the iron?
[11:28] <popey> yeah
[11:29] <popey> I've also got a little base near my spawn and started digging in single directions n, w, s, e, and keep discovering caves I've explored already :)
[11:29] <dutchie> right, minecraft it is
[11:29] <jacobw> o/ dutchie
[11:30] <dutchie> hi jacobw
[11:30] <jacobw> i need to get started on minecraft, i've got it now, i've even got a spare PC to dedicate to it
[11:31] <popey> lol
[11:34] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[11:41] <bigcalm> I've been digging a pit, but started it from a tunnel. It's peaceful not being intrupted by creepers or spiders
[11:41] <bigcalm> About to open up the pit to the sky. Made 128 blocks of glass last night
[11:42] <bigcalm> This is what my life has become :(
[11:45] <AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/20/christmas-party/
[11:45] <AlanBell> oh, not the link I thought I had on the clipboard!
[11:46] <AlanBell> http://prezi.com/laeej1m7xjji/overview-zoomy-presentation-stuff-with-opengl/  <- that one
[11:48] <danfish> that's rather good AlanBell
[11:48] <danfish> any links for code etc?
[11:48] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/overview-project
[11:48] <AlanBell> so far it displays a red ball in a window
[11:54] <bigcalm> Oh my
[11:54] <bigcalm> I've just cracked the floor of my pit and there's lava below
[11:54] <dutchie> that was a good start
[11:55]  * dutchie starts again
[11:55] <bigcalm> dutchie: it's a hard game to start
[11:55] <dutchie> i will try not to drown this time
[11:55] <bigcalm> Look up "surviving day one in minecraft" on youtube
[11:55] <popey> dutchie: spacebar prevents you drowning
[11:55] <popey> swim up
[11:56] <popey> also make good use of minecraftwiki
[11:56] <bigcalm> I have the recipe page printed out
[11:57] <czajkowski> ello folks
[11:57] <jacobw> we need a minecraft section on the new website as well as a recipes section
[11:58] <bigcalm> czajkowski: *hugs*
[11:58] <popey> lo
[11:58] <dutchie> haha, didn't expect cacti to sting me
[11:59] <danfish> I think an addiction support section on the website might be better :)
[11:59] <danfish> (to include angry bird addicts like myself)
[12:02] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[12:05] <czajkowski> looking at flights at this time of the morning is confusing
[12:05] <czajkowski> :s
[12:07] <AlanBell> leaving us already?
[12:08] <czajkowski> heh
[12:09] <popey> AlanBell: i guess you need two halves really, the editor and the player
[12:09] <AlanBell> yes
[12:09] <AlanBell> editor will probably be gedit and an XML or json file
[12:09] <AlanBell> ooooh json in CouchDB
[12:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: trying to see if it's an option to head home to susprise my dad for his bday
[12:16]  * dutchie tries to work out why he can't make a torch
[12:16] <popey> stick and coal
[12:17] <dutchie> that's what i'm doing
[12:18] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dan Fish] GU10 halogen bulbs are bad - http://www.ossmedicine.org/home_automation/11/gu10-halogen-bulbs-are-bad/
[12:20] <bigcalm> dutchie: one stick & one coal
[12:21] <bigcalm> Doesn't need a workbench to be made
[12:21] <danfish> hmm - that wasn't supposed to turn up on the planet :(
[12:24] <AlanBell> danfish: but it did and I just read it because it sounded interesting
[12:25] <danfish> :)
[12:26] <dutchie> http://ubuntuone.com/p/QDJ/
[12:27] <shauno> I didn't realise you were playing minecraft.  suddenly the torch comments are a lot more mundane
[12:31] <popey> dutchie: thats flint, not coal
[12:31] <dutchie> that would explain it
[12:31] <popey> i made the same mistake :)
[12:33] <bigcalm> A boat can be used on water
[12:33] <bigcalm> Is there anything that can be used on lava?
[12:34] <popey> no
[12:34] <popey> you can make obsidian with lava though
[12:34] <bigcalm> About to try that
[12:34] <bigcalm> Water poured over lava?
[12:34] <popey> yes
[12:35] <popey> needs to be flat lava, not flowing lava
[12:35] <bigcalm> Ta
[12:35] <bigcalm> That's weird. I have both water and lava at the bottom of my pit
[12:36] <bigcalm> I've been playing minecraft so much, my space bar now squeaks :(
[12:36]  * dutchie goes back to hunting for coal
[12:36] <bigcalm> dutchie: try vertical rock faces
[12:39] <bigcalm> http://twitpic.com/38us4y
[12:40] <awilkins> Is that obsidian?
[12:41] <bigcalm> I assume that I need an iron pick to mine it
[12:42] <awilkins> I have no idea - I own minecraft, but I'm not a junkie :-)
[12:42]  * bigcalm cracks up
[12:43] <bigcalm> I was holding a bucket of water and then closed the door to my house
[12:43] <bigcalm> Instantly flooded my house
[12:44] <awilkins> I saw a very funny video where a guy was trying to demonstrate creating permanent fire in the hearth of his communal log cabin. He learned the advisability of incorporating a fireback into your designs.
[12:46] <bigcalm> Damn it
[12:47] <bigcalm> Spent about a minute mining just one block of obsidian with an iron pick and got nothing for it :(
[12:55] <awilkins> I guess it's diamond or nothing
[13:02] <jacobw> what is the minecraft server to be on?
[13:12] <dutchie> a few folks play on the linux outlaws one
[13:16] <dutchie> ooh, finally found some coal
[13:20] <popey> jacobw: there's lot of servers, most people play on their own first though
[13:21] <popey> however.. gordallott.com is a good one to try :)
[13:21]  * popey is on it right now
[13:23] <popey> bigcalm: you need diamond for obsidian i think
[13:24] <bigcalm> Poop
[13:24] <bigcalm> I have loads of obsidian blocks waiting to be minded
[13:24] <bigcalm> mined
[13:24] <popey> they're not going anywhere
[13:25] <popey> jump on gords server :)
[13:25]  * bigcalm wants!
[13:25] <bigcalm> hokay
[13:28] <dutchie> right, one shelter knocked up
[13:34] <bigcalm> How do you get a shelter preggers?
[13:34] <dutchie> http://joke.popey.com/
[13:36]  * dutchie has made a hobbit hole \o/
[13:47] <Azelphur> anyone / directhex what's your opinion on bong cooling?
[13:49] <directhex> Azelphur: my opinion is: do it right with air first. worry about fancy cooling later
[13:49] <Azelphur> but I like doing crazy things :(
[14:25] <directhex> Azelphur: if you want to splash out on the cooling, try to build a silent air rig. low-noise components top to bottom
[14:27] <Azelphur> silent doesn't bother me I just want it to be very fast
[14:28] <Azelphur> so things like SSD and fast RAM and overclocking are what I'm aiming at
[14:32] <MartijnVdS> £5000 PCI-E SSD? 8-)
[14:36] <gord> y'know what would make it even faster? just waiting 12 months and getting off the shelf stuff
[14:36] <penguin42> or spending the cost of the wacky cooling things on anothe rnGB of RAM
[14:37] <directhex> Azelphur: ignoring the lace trim, what about the core of it? cpu? gpu?
[14:38] <Azelphur> directhex: http://game.azelphur.com/forum/building-my-dream-oil-submerged-computer is the parts I'm looking at
[14:38] <Azelphur> feel free to pick at it, as I say it's my first build and I don't really know shit
[14:40] <directhex> Azelphur: i think you want a giant watercooler radiator. there's a company making oil cool kits, with rails etc, and their rad is 9x120mm
[14:40] <Azelphur> directhex: puget? Yea I know all about them and how their build works
[14:41] <directhex> Azelphur: midrange gpu seems an odd choice on that build
[14:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/index.html
[14:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Full immersion cooling
[14:41] <directhex> if it's budget, up the gpu & down the cpu to balance the price
[14:41] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: seen them too :D
[14:42] <Azelphur> directhex: what GPU do you think I should get?
[14:42] <Azelphur> It's gotta be nvidia for the Linux drivers
[14:42] <directhex> well, fglrx works these days. i have a radeon
[14:43] <Azelphur> directhex: not very well with wine
[14:43] <directhex> the geforce 580 is out now (£400). or there's the old 480 (£330)
[14:43] <directhex> Azelphur: if you're gaming, buy windows.
[14:43] <directhex> use wine, tinker with wine, but you really really need windows for a gaming pc
[14:43] <Azelphur> directhex: I like Linux gaming, I'm a glutton for pain :D
[14:44] <directhex> Azelphur: i wrote the book on linux gaming. buy windows.
[14:44] <Azelphur> Gaming isn't my primary use
[14:44] <Azelphur> I do pretty much everything
[14:44] <Azelphur> and I switched from windows a few years ago, I like sticking with Linux
[14:44] <directhex> -_-
[14:44] <Azelphur> it isn't the greatest for gaming, but it certainly isn't bad
[14:45] <Azelphur> most of the stuff works
[14:45] <Azelphur> and I don't want the hassle of continually rebooting
[14:46] <directhex> your selection of games is DRASTICALLY reduced, and will run with SIGNIFICANTLY reduced image quality and performance. by all means use wine for convenience, but you badly need windows as an option, for when (not if) wine won't do
[14:46] <Azelphur> I just don't play games that don't run in wine
[14:46] <Azelphur> It's not that bigger deal to me
[14:46] <directhex> ._.
[14:46] <Azelphur> Windows is there if I need it I still have the CD's I've just never bothered to install it
[14:47] <Azelphur> and the games I play work well in wine
[14:48] <directhex> good luck with that
[14:48] <directhex> meanwhile, i bought age of empires 3 with all expansions for 10p this morning
[14:48] <Azelphur> directhex: been doing it for 3 years now and it's been fine
[14:49] <Azelphur> I just need a little more power to run TF2 smooth on all max settings (It's a little jittery on my current rig) and I get trouble multitasking while gaming, it's a CPU/GPU bottleneck
[14:50] <Azelphur> and I don't do bad, I have a 3.07 kdr on TF2 and I'm ranked 12/5380 on my server :)
[14:50] <Azelphur> I also use a trackball, :D
[14:51] <Azelphur> and I have 477 sniper kills, 348 of them headshots (72%)
[14:51] <Azelphur> so Linux gaming works for me.
[14:53] <penguin42> Azelphur: It's interesting the different way I spec'd my machine; it's nearly a year old now but I bought it for compiling and general fiddling rather than games - I did it for about £750 I think
[14:53] <directhex> because you only play one game from 2007. gotcha
[14:54] <Azelphur> penguin42: yea, that's pretty much what my current build is
[14:55] <Azelphur> directhex: I did say gaming isn't my primary use case :)
[14:55] <Azelphur> I also clock up some time on most source games and a few others, SC2 for example ain't from 2007 :)
[14:57] <awilkins> What are the Radeons like for multi-monitor support in Linux? I really don't care about the games or 3D stuff, I still have Windows for that
[14:57] <awilkins> The ATI cards are certainly more attractive from a price / power consumption viewpoint
[14:58] <Azelphur> probably no better than nvidia lol
[14:58] <awilkins> I've been resisting GPU upgrades anyway. My GTS 8800 is still fine for most things
[14:58] <penguin42> multihead normally works well on them on their closed driver, I've not tried multihead on the open driver
[14:58] <Azelphur> hehe, by multi you mean 2
[14:58] <Azelphur> >2 is where you become into a world of hurt
[14:58] <penguin42> Azelphur: What does the £148 PSU give you?
[14:58] <awilkins> 2 is all I need. Don't have enough room on my desk for another 22" widescreen
[14:59] <awilkins> £148 PSU
[14:59] <Azelphur> penguin42: I wanna overclock and I have a lot of drives
[14:59] <awilkins> About 1kW of power
[14:59] <penguin42> Azelphur: Ah OK
[14:59] <awilkins> 3.5" Drives are about 6-8W apiece these days, right?
[15:00] <awilkins> Definitely GPU and CPU that eats the electrons
[15:01] <Azelphur> awilkins: also 2 GPU's since I have quad monitor :)
[15:01] <awilkins> Erk
[15:02] <awilkins> Three might be nice. If you could get XWing vs Tie Fighter and similar to support them.
[15:02] <awilkins> I had my hand on a Saitek X52 earlier in the week. I wish I'd had something that nice to play sim games with 10 years ago
[15:03] <Azelphur> hehe I'll keep one of my 8800GT's for now as the second pair of monitors is a separate X session and only does mundane things
[15:03] <awilkins> But everything on PC is mouse, mouse, mouse now
[15:03] <awilkins> Even that space combat MMO was pretty 2 dimensional
[15:04] <awilkins> Publisher just aren't up for anything that has a learning curve in case it turns people off.
[15:51] <lazarus_>  is it possible to make a script that interacts with ubuntu one i.e logs in using SSO and downloads requested files?
[16:19] <nperry> Wish my cat would appricate that i'm trying to play with unity, rather then keep moving own me when I'm trying to type.. And he digs his claws in
[16:20] <nperry> Now he is giving me an evil look as im not fussing him
[16:20] <Azelphur> lol
[16:22] <nperry> anyhow unity refuses to work on nouveau just comes up with normal gnome wm
[16:24] <AlanBell> nperry: not a bug, it is an evil cat conspiracy
[16:25] <AlanBell> so is that compiz unity?
[16:25] <nperry> Yeah
[16:25] <nperry> Other unity loved nouveau :/
[18:30] <suprengr> 'evening all
[18:32] <nperry> yo
[18:40] <zetyl> hi there
[18:40] <zetyl> i got two pc
[18:41] <zetyl> from windows i connect to ubuntu pc using putty
[18:41] <zetyl> i want to send a file which is on windows to  ubuntu
[18:41] <zetyl> what to do ?
[18:42] <Azelphur> zetyl: winscp
[18:42] <zetyl> winscp ?
[18:42] <Azelphur> !winscp
[18:45] <zetyl> well using winscp i can see all folder which on my ubuntu pc
[18:46] <zetyl> but i think you don't understand my question
[18:46] <zetyl> i need to send a file wich is on windows to ubuntu
[18:47] <zetyl> how to do ?
[18:47] <zetyl> is it possible with winscp ?
[18:47] <AlanBell> it is
[18:47] <Azelphur> zetyl: ...on the left is your windows pc, on the right is your ubuntu pc...
[18:47] <Azelphur> drag file, drop file
[18:51] <zetyl> autant pour moi i forget that one
[18:51] <zetyl> working now
[18:52] <zetyl> well how to do the same thing  with scp ?
[18:52] <zetyl> on cli
[18:52] <Azelphur> !winscp | zetyl
[18:53] <amarcolino> Can someone help fix dpkg errors, please look at the output in my pastebin http://paste.ubuntu.com/534970/
[18:54] <popey> amarcolino: disk full?
[18:54] <AlanBell> I see a hash prompt
[18:54] <popey> oooo :)
[18:54] <zetyl> why filename two times ?
[18:55] <popey> zetyl: you might want to call it a different name remotely
[18:55] <amarcolino> popey: not even close
[18:55] <popey> amarcolino: when did this start happening?
[18:56] <zetyl> ok thanks a lot
[18:57] <zetyl> i also heard about gsync
[18:57] <zetyl> to do the same thing
[18:57] <zetyl> i don't know how it works ?
[18:57] <popey> never heard of it
[18:57] <AlanBell> !info gsync
[18:57] <popey> I always use scp
[18:57] <AlanBell> rsync perhaps
[18:57] <amarcolino> popey: this is the second time happening, no clue what is going on, I believe it's being cause by snaphosts using the web interface of phpvirtualbox compared to using the command line and I prefer not to go back a previous snapshot as I've spent quite a while setting this up
[18:58] <zetyl> yes rsync
[18:58] <AlanBell> man:rsync
[18:59] <AlanBell> quite a lot of switches available for rsync, but basically it syncronises one directory tree with another
[18:59] <Azelphur> popey: I use sftp the most :)
[18:59] <AlanBell> doing differential updates of each file so it only passes the changes across
[18:59] <Azelphur> I wonder if everyone knows about this one or not but I've been using it a lot
[19:00] <Azelphur> if you fire up nautilus and press ctrl+L, then type sftp://username@address, it mounts a remote machine via sftp/scp
[19:00] <AlanBell> Azelphur: I use sftp, don't think I have ever used scp
[19:00] <Azelphur> so you can just browse it as if it was local, I find it really handy :D
[19:01] <finelytuned> evening all
[19:01] <suprengr> !infogrsync
[19:02] <AlanBell> !info grsync
[19:02] <suprengr> cheers AB
[19:03] <amarcolino> popey: any suggestions
[19:05] <AlanBell> amarcolino: the permissions error seems surprising as you are running aptitude as root
[19:05] <AlanBell> could be something not getting execute bit set
[19:05] <AlanBell> like it being on a noexec mounted disk
[19:05] <AlanBell> which again seems unlikely
[19:08] <amarcolino> AlanBell: yup, earlier on had a few options set in fstab noexec was one of them, completely forgot about that the first time and repeated the same mistake the second time, not one of my best moments
[19:23] <richardsch_> I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on an Evesham Voyager c350, all seems to work except WiFi. Anybody around that can lend a hand?
[19:25] <suprengr> richardsch_: just a stab in the dark but does it show your wifi but won't connect ?
[19:28] <DJones> And is it a usb dongle or built in wireless
[19:29] <richardsch_> no, the "Wireless Networks" is greyed out and a "device not ready" message shows
[19:29] <richardsch_> it is inbuilt
[19:30] <DJones> richardsch_: Can you open a terminal & run the command lspci and then put the results in a pastebin for us
[19:30] <DJones> !paste
[19:31] <DJones> It might just be that the driver needs to be installed
[19:31] <richardsch_> will do as told, -but must first lear to use Pastebin.
[19:33] <DJones> richardsch_: All you need to do is go to the http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org website, copy the results of the command to the website and then click ok/continue & it'll give you a link to the page that you can post here
[19:35] <richardsch_> Djones, lspci on http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/86387
[19:36] <richardsch_> I think the drives installs by default with 10.04... ,
[19:36] <DJones> Just looking up the wifi card
[19:41] <DJones> Heh, just found your question on ubuntu answers
[19:41] <richardsch_> Great!
[19:42] <DJones> Have you tried the solution somebody has suggested in the last few minutes
[19:43] <richardsch_> I tried a number of things suggested in the forums, other suggestions went over my head
[19:43] <richardsch_> I'll check my request on Ubuntu Answers
[19:43] <czajkowski> popey: how do I delete contacts off an iphone ?
[19:44] <DJones> There seems to be a few different suggestions for that card, doesn't seem as though anybody has got a handle on what the specific problem is
[19:44] <popey> czajkowski: go to contacts, click the contact, click edit, scroll down, hit delete contact
[19:45] <czajkowski> one by one...
[19:45] <czajkowski> feck
[19:45] <czajkowski> imported the sim contacts on iphone
[19:45] <czajkowski> and there are numbers thre that mean diddly squat to me
[19:46] <popey> I sync my phone to google and edit on the web
[19:46] <popey> i never edit on the phone itself
[19:49] <richardsch_> DJones, I do not understand the instructions posted by Donald Liu:
[19:49] <richardsch_> 1. Have this file:
[19:49] <richardsch_> - /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945
[19:49] <richardsch_> 2. Content:
[19:49] <richardsch_> ---
[19:49] <richardsch_> alias wlan0 iwl3945
[19:49] <richardsch_> options iwl3945 disable_hw_scan=1
[19:50] <Joeb454> +1 for syncing iPhone with Google :)
[19:50] <popey> !paste | richardsch_
[19:50] <Joeb454> it's cheaper than mobile me, too :P
[19:50] <popey> yeah!
[19:50] <richardsch_> Cheers popey
[19:51] <DJones> richardsch_: It looks as though he's saying to edit the /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945 file and add the two lines in point 2 at the end of the file
[19:52] <richardsch_> Sorry to bore you, how is the file edited?
[19:53] <DJones> richardsch_: Give me a sec, just need to check something
[19:58] <DJones> popey: Can you check something for me if you're still around
[20:00] <richardsch_> DJones, tried to find - /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945 on my system, it does not appear to be there
[20:02] <lazarus_> i cant cd /tmp
[20:02] <DJones> richardsch_:yeah, It looks as though you need to create the file, the only thing I'm not sure about is the filename, every other file I've got in that folder ends in .conf, so I'm just wondering whether this file should be iwl3945.conf or just iwl3945
[20:03] <DJones> richardsch_: I guess you could just try creating the file, "sudo nano /etc/modprobe.d/iwl3945" and then copy & paste the other two lines into it, then Ctrl-X to save
[20:04] <DJones> Reboot & try wireless, if nothing has changed, change the filename to add the .conf
[20:04] <richardsch_> OK, will try
[20:05] <lazarus_> http://pastebin.com/1Sc1F6pe is there any way of improvin this
[20:20] <nucc1> bear with my laziness, but is there some way of getting line numbers in emacs? :)
[20:21]  * penguin42 assumes there is 
[20:21] <nucc1> can't find any thing whose name would suggest
[20:22] <KrimZon> does anyone here use silc?
[20:23] <nucc1> saw a line-numbers toggle, but it seems to have no effect :(
[20:23] <AlanBell> http://www.emacswiki.org/LineNumbers
[20:23] <nucc1> ah, seen
[20:24] <nucc1> the line numbers are not shown on the side, like i expected
[20:24] <nucc1> he he he
[20:24] <penguin42>  :set nu     in vi    :-)
[20:25] <nucc1> he he, my editor of choice is usually gedit, but i have to admit, it sucks as an IDE.
[20:28] <nucc1> AlanBell, thanks, good info on that link.
[20:29] <peejay1977> Evening all :)
[20:31] <nucc1> bon soir
[20:35] <nucc1> penguin42, alt+m linum-mode in emacs :)
[20:38] <nucc1> err, alt+x linum-mode
[20:39] <penguin42> :-)
[20:39] <penguin42> anyway, TV time
[20:43]  * nucc1 is falling in love with emacs
[20:49] <amarcolino> testing proftpd using filezilla using tls for some reason it connects but outputs 'Connection timed out' than 'Failed to retrieve directory listing', need to find out why, what ports other than 21 do I have to open because if I disable ufw I am able to connect
[20:55] <nucc1> 20, i suspect.
[20:56] <nucc1> ftp uses two ports.
[20:56] <nucc1> one for control, and one for data.
[21:13] <popey> DJones: ?
[21:13] <DJones> popey: no worries, been sorted now
[21:15] <amarcolino> nucc1: I got both ports open and it still can't retrieve directory
[21:16] <nucc1> amarcolino, both server and client are the same machine?
[21:18] <amarcolino> nucc1: no the client (filezilla) is on my laptop and the server (proftpd) is on the machine
[21:18] <nucc1> where is the firewall?
[21:19] <amarcolino> on the machine with proftpd
[21:21] <nucc1> it seems ftp is troublesome to do behind a firewall. http://slacksite.com/other/ftp.html
[21:23] <amarcolino> nucc1: maybe but just had a thought, I am implementing tcp_wrapper... will check that out and get back to you...
[21:27] <AlanBell> ftp is a bit rubbish as a protocol
[21:27] <AlanBell> just open port 22 and use sftp
[21:27] <nucc1> yea, that happens to me a lot :0
[21:27] <nucc1> :)
[21:30] <amarcolino> AlanBell: would do that but I am going to get a few members logging in, I am doing a project with them so it would help if they could use ftp since most if not all are beginners etc
[21:31] <amarcolino> nucc1: I doubt that, today I've been forgetting things feels like I am suffering from alzheimer
[21:42] <nucc1> amarcolino, they can use filezilla for SSH, just like ftp.
[21:45] <AlanBell> amarcolino: consider using bzr or svn instead
[21:45] <AlanBell> if they are beginners rather than learning FTP learn something useful
[21:45] <AlanBell> and something with an undo
[21:45] <nucc1> svn is probably easiest to grasp
[21:47] <amarcolino> AlanBell: makes sense and nucc1 maybe but I still don't know how to implement that
[21:48] <nucc1> ssh is a no brainer, if you just want to upload files to a central place, then ssh is ok.
[21:48] <AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Subversion
[21:48] <nucc1> but if you're doing something such as web development perhaps, svn, bzr, git etc would be best
[21:49] <AlanBell> there are lots of gui clients for svn
[21:49] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/
[21:50] <AlanBell> bzr is great too and you can put your project on Launchpad
[21:53] <nucc1> amarcolino, if you don't feel like going with svn et al, just install openssh-server and open port 22. its almost identical to FTP, but more firewall friendly, among other things.
[21:54] <nucc1> every user that logs on would then need to have a system account, and you'll need to configure the appropriate permissions for the shared folder you want them to access.
[21:56] <amarcolino> I have, I've got ssh and I know how to set-it-up so it locks to one directory which what I need, however, I want to try and sort ftp first
[22:27] <amarcolino> nucc1, AlanBell, got it working had to set passive ports in the conf file and foward them in ufw and router, I feel so much better now that I worked it out. However, I did not think I actually had to considering ports 20 & 21 are open *sigh* going to get a quick grub
[22:27] <AlanBell> yay
[22:52] <UtrinqueParatus> getting people to link your site is an absolute nightmare, i seriously need to raise a budget for an seo expert
[22:53] <AlanBell> meh, have good content
[22:53] <AlanBell> don't try to game google
[22:53] <UtrinqueParatus> it's for a small it support company i'm not sure what content we could provide which is unique and relevant
[22:54] <UtrinqueParatus> maybe we need to look into adding a blog
[22:54] <AlanBell> if you are not unique and relevant then you need to address those problems
[22:55] <UtrinqueParatus> what i mean by that is whatever we post will be second hand regurgitated from the major sites like slashdot etc
[22:55] <AlanBell> eww
[22:55] <UtrinqueParatus> i have published a few money saving energy efficiency articles
[22:55] <AlanBell> why?
[22:55] <AlanBell> why not write something interesting
[22:56] <AlanBell> and then get slashdotted
[22:56] <UtrinqueParatus> you have a very good point however i can't think of anything right now
[22:56] <amarcolino> can someone explain in simple terms what is IP masquerading and when would someone use it?
[22:56] <AlanBell> amarcolino: it is NAT
[22:57] <AlanBell> did that help, or just move the problem?
[22:59] <UtrinqueParatus> so the answer to my issue is stop being lazy and find interesting things to write about :)
[23:00] <AlanBell> or *do* interesting things and then write about them
[23:01] <UtrinqueParatus> what would you suggest the best vehicle for that to be? a blog or extra html pages on the website?
[23:01] <amarcolino> AlanBell: that made me laugh thanks, can you expand a bit more when would anyone use it, I got a vm with an internal ip of 192.168.*.* however what would masquerading do
[23:02] <AlanBell> basically acts like a NAT router, so it can transparently route traffic to an internal IP address for a given port
[23:03] <AlanBell> so you could route port 80 on the IP address of the host to port 80 on the IP address of the VM
[23:03] <AlanBell> so that other machines think that your host is serving a website, when it is actually the VM. Kind of like a socket level proxy server.
[23:04] <AlanBell> a domestic ADSL router does NAT
[23:09] <amarcolino> ok
[23:10] <amarcolino> I guess it wouldn't apply to me considering the guest already has an internal/public ip and so does the host non are using actual static ips
[23:13] <amarcolino> got dyndns working with ddclient, I can use the link internally but if I ask others to test it they can't load the page, do I need to set-it-up in apache or is there another way to go about it?
[23:15] <AlanBell> what is the url?
[23:19] <AlanBell> ok, nothing responding on port 80 on the outside of that address
[23:20] <AlanBell> hang on!!
[23:20] <amarcolino> AlanBell: it might just be me forgetting to open the port in the router
[23:20] <AlanBell> no, you have somehow reported the internal 192.168 address to dyndns
[23:21] <AlanBell> how the heck did you do that I wonder
[23:21] <amarcolino> AlanBell: huh... I have somehow reported... what?
[23:21] <AlanBell> ping it
[23:22] <AlanBell> it should resolve to the outside address of your router
[23:22] <AlanBell> not to 192.168.1.60
[23:22] <amarcolino> oh hmmm
[23:22] <amarcolino> I see what you mean :s
[23:24] <amarcolino> well this should be simpler than my earlier ftp problem
[23:24] <amarcolino> and why am I listening to pink? *sigh* too tired to make sense of things
[23:25] <amarcolino> AlanBell: can you try it again please
[23:26] <AlanBell> It works!
[23:27] <amarcolino> :D
[23:27] <amarcolino> oooh that saves me some typing and means I can go to bed soon not before I eat something again
[23:27] <AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=133475566706516 for facebook type people
[23:28] <Joeb454> AlanBell: I want mince pies like that!
[23:28] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/568/detail/ is the main signup sheet
[23:29] <Joeb454> ah rubbish, it's on my brothers birthday
[23:29] <AlanBell> Joeb454: I think I ate two of them
[23:29] <amarcolino> yummy
[23:29] <Joeb454> as it's his 18th, I don't think I can miss it
[23:29] <AlanBell> Joeb454: bring your brother \o/
[23:29] <Joeb454> lol, you wouldn't want him there AlanBell, he's miserable :P
[23:29] <AlanBell> lol
[23:30] <Joeb454> he's also expressed that he'd quite like to go to the pub, because he's never been before. So I'm going to take him to the local I reckons
[23:30] <AlanBell> I appear to have written the facebook article when in a bit of a bah humbug kind of mood
[23:31] <amarcolino> AlanBell: I might not be in the country from the 17th Dec so might miss that, would've been nice to show up to what would be my first ubuntu related event
[23:31] <AlanBell> well feel free to like the event or whatever it is one does on Facebook
[23:34] <amarcolino> will do like the event