[14:40] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[19:18] <micahg> mr_pouit: I was hoping to start getting involved in xubuntu development, is there stuff I can help with in UBuntu?
[19:19] <mr_pouit> yeah, sure, most of the fun will start after I upload xfce4-panel
[19:19] <mr_pouit> put it won't happen before alpha1, because it breaks everything
[19:19] <mr_pouit> s/put/but/
[19:20] <micahg> mr_pouit: ok, I can't commit a significant amount of time at the moment, but can help with merges/syncs from Universe
[19:20] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I can now reproduce the disappearing panel anytime
[19:20] <charlie-tca> even in natty
[19:20] <micahg> s/from/in
[19:21] <micahg> mr_pouit: I'm subscribe to the pkg-xfce list in Debian and am happy to keep natty in sync with the latest uploads to Debian if that helps any
[19:21] <mr_pouit> micahg: okay, everything is already in the pkg-xfce svn repo, so it will only need to import that, and have some fun with gold & as-needed
[19:22] <mr_pouit> micahg: that's why I'm using -0faksync1, because it's easy to differentiate what is "long-term ubuntu changes" and the rest
[19:22] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: mmh, I guess we'll have to live with it until the alpha1. After that I'll upload xfce4-panel 4.7 which might fix that
[19:23] <charlie-tca> Hoping
[19:23] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: or we can decide not to release this alpha 1, in which case I upload much sooner
[19:23] <micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, but that's not what it's meant for, also, if you're clear in the changelog, the person doing the merge next time will know to sync
[19:24] <charlie-tca> Would we be better off not to release alpha1? It gives us an opportunity to make sure everything is working. 
[19:24] <micahg> mr_pouit: is most of the work then uploading new versions from pkg-xfce?
[19:24] <mr_pouit> micahg: well, I don't really trust "the person doing the next merge" (because most uploaders do not bother getting in touch with the xubuntu team)
[19:24] <micahg> directly to Ubuntu and not through Debian
[19:25] <micahg> mr_pouit: that's an issue, this early in the cycle, anyone doing the merge should contact the TIL person
[19:25] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we are planning to roll out the Xubuntu 10.04.2 release, too
[19:25] <charlie-tca> scheduled for February 17
[19:25] <mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, I worked directly with the debian maintainer to put everything in their svn
[19:25] <micahg> mr_pouit: and if that's not happening, that should be brought up on the -motu list and/or IRC channel
[19:29] <mr_pouit> micahg: it's not a big deal, I don't think that's worth the pain (and when it is autosynced, 'motu' is set as a maintainer and not 'xubuntu-team', so I can't blame him). But e.g. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/2010-November/001152.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/2010-November/001658.html : I wasn't contacted before the upload, and I would've told him that he's wasting his time, because everything wil
[19:30] <micahg> fun, 2 MOTUs
[19:30] <micahg> mr_pouit: also, it's not ubuntu-dev and not motu as contact
[19:30] <micahg> *now
[19:30] <mr_pouit> ah yeah right
[19:31] <micahg> mr_pouit: right, but they can be reminded of the courtesy to ask first
[19:31] <micahg> it's more important in this case since they're flavour packages
[19:32] <micahg> mr_pouit: I can send a generic e-mail to the MOTU list reminding people to contact the TIL person before doing a merge/sync
[19:33] <micahg> mr_pouit: eventually, this'll be sorted out with the archive reorganization
[19:33] <micahg> MOTU will only be able to upload unseeded packages
[19:36] <micahg> mr_pouit: anyways, I can do simple things now, maybe more starting in January
[19:37] <mr_pouit> micahg: you can look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Natty/Xfce4.8
[19:38] <mr_pouit> I try to keep it up-to-date
[19:38] <mr_pouit> most of the things are blocked by xfce4-panel (and so the alpha1), so there's not much to do now, unless if you want to start preparing panel-plugins somewhere?
[19:39] <micahg> mr_pouit: as in prepare a rebuild of all of them for after the new panel is uploaded?
[19:42] <mr_pouit> yeah, as long as you put your name on the wiki page so we don't do duplicate work, I'm fine
[19:43] <micahg> mr_pouit: if it helps you, I'm happy to do it
[19:43] <mr_pouit> if you don't like panel plugins, there are a few standalone apps that are simpler, e.g. ristretto & xfce4-volumed
[19:43] <mr_pouit> but no need to rush until alpha 1, so don't feel forced to do it immediately
[19:50] <micahg> mr_pouit: at what point do you think natty will be stable enough for daily Xubuntu usage?
[19:50] <charlie-tca> micahg: I am using it daily already
[19:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: it hasn't started breaking yet :)
[19:51] <charlie-tca> I upgraded from maverick.
[19:51] <charlie-tca> No, it should break all the way to the RC
[19:51] <charlie-tca> Only thing I don't understand is why ff has not upgraded to 4.0. It is already in the images
[19:52] <micahg> I usually upgrade around beta since all the major changes are in place and I don't expect non-responsive system breakage
[19:52] <micahg> charlie-tca: local mirror?
[19:52] <charlie-tca> nope
[19:52] <charlie-tca> us.archives
[19:52]  * micahg needs to update the firefox-next PPA for FF 4.0 beta 7
[19:52] <charlie-tca> same as the cd
[19:53] <charlie-tca> well, actually, same sources.list as after installing from the alternate image
[19:54] <mr_pouit> micahg: xfce 4.7.x is already rather "stable". And the panel breakge will only annoy stupid people ignoring warnings from their package manager (because the old plugins will conflict with the new panel, everything will be kept, unless you force a dist-upgrade)
[19:54] <mr_pouit> but I'm hoping we'll have rebuilt everything for the 2nd alpha
[19:55] <mr_pouit> (I guess the conflicts will be iso generation though, so potentially no daily image for more than a month)
[19:55] <mr_pouit> s/be/break/
[19:56] <micahg> mr_pouit: ok, so I'll plan on upgrading as soon as they get all the X/Mesa changes in
[19:56] <micahg> that didn't happen right before beta for maverick
[19:56] <micahg> *until
[19:58] <micahg> mr_pouit: so, I have to port the xul rdepends this cycle as well, so I don't know how much time I'll have, I do want to help though, I guess I should chat with you again after alpha 1
[19:59] <mr_pouit> no problem :)
[20:00] <micahg> mr_pouit: feel free to ping me if there's something you think you can easily offload in the mean tiem
[20:00] <micahg> *time