[00:34] argh [00:34] why has bluetooth suddenly stopped working [00:49] and now it's back [00:49] weird [06:19] [Ralph Janke] AskUbuntu reaches 4000 questions - 9000 answers - 6000 users - 40000 votes - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/askubuntu-reaches-4000-questions-9000-answers-6000-users-40000-votes [07:39] morning all [07:39] Morning AlanBell [07:59] Morning [08:21] Morning earthlings [08:28] Am I the only person who's eying up a tablet as an easy way to get a car pc? All I need do is find a tablet of the correct dimensions [08:29] Morning all & Nanu Nanu to TheOpenSourcerer [08:31] Morning all [08:32] daubers: how you planning on fixing it in? [08:33] nperry: No idea [08:33] daubers: I've seen a few suggestions for that idea [08:34] hmmm [08:34] Really do want to rip out my radio and replace it with a small computer [08:36] daubers: What would you do about a radio then? I know you'd have live streaming, but could be bandwidth heavy for regular use [08:37] DJones: I'd stick a DAB radio thing in it. Used to be able to get USB radios for ~£20-30 [08:38] Everybody will have to do that in about 5 years anyway when normal radio frequencies get turned off anyway [08:38] Assuming it happens to plan [08:40] Yup [08:43] I would think the ideal would have built in sat-nav etc which is installed on teh device, rather than downloading maps all the time [08:44] Not to sure if it would legal though, as police would class it as distracting you.. [08:45] I'm not too sure about that, a few cars have built in car-puters, and people put satnavs in as after market addons, I guess it would depend on how you were using it [08:46] My aftermarket headunit has a bright blue led display, police pulled me over saying that they could see it when they were behind distracing them for driving... [08:46] t/for/from [08:46] Not to sure if it was an excuse to check my insurance etc, but they seem hung up on it.. [08:47] They didn't seem happy with me "go tell kenwood then, I just brought it" [08:47] Is there anyway you can change the display? With things like tablet pc's you seem to be able to change backgrounds, change brightness etc so it shouldn't be as much of an issue [08:48] You could change brightness and the timeout, so screen turns off after 5secs [08:48] Right, not quite as simple with a dedicated unit I would guess [08:51] But on-board computers stay on all the time and are bright in my brothers new astra.. [08:51] However it is at a funny angle, so that may be the soultion.. [08:52] I could might a joggler load ubuntu on and have it in my car though, would be very nice... [08:53] t/might/have [08:54] Man, this first coffe this morning hasn't kicked in yet... [08:54] And our it deparment are annoying me :( [08:57] Don't upset them, they might change all your passwords :) [08:58] Our cisco phones are down, and they've got me to unplug it for 30seconds 3 times already... that isn't actually working... [08:59] The normal "have you turned it off and back on again" [08:59] nperry: Are they all down? [08:59] Tell them its Cisco, _NOT_ Windows XP [09:09] daubers: They are saying the asdl is down, but I'm on the internet... and we can call internally to off site but not got an external line. [09:09] t/got/get [09:09] God, I quit typing :( [09:13] nperry: Sounds like a switching/routing issue [09:17] Morning ya'll [09:23] morning [09:25] Good morning one and all [09:26] o/ [09:26] daubers: surely if routing was down, the internal calls (which go offsite to ho) will be. [09:26] Morning :) [09:26] coffee time... [09:27] * gord wonders how many replies of irssi are going to be sent to the mailing list ;) [09:27] nperry: Depends where abouts the router with the issue is [09:28] Alans are ye going to http://digitalsurrey.co.uk/events/IdentifyinginfluencersaspartofyoursocialmediastrategyDigitalSurreyevents.php [09:30] popey: AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer ^^ [09:31] i wasn't planning on it [09:31] Could anybody with ethernet over AC recomend products? [09:31] devolo [09:31] czajkowski: Yes, I am. [09:31] I have 4 of them, work perfectly [09:31] morning :) [09:31] that was @ bigcalm [09:32] TheOpenSourcerer: excellent see you there [09:32] bigcalm: anything that supports one of the homeplug standards [09:32] popey: my dad is looking at making use of it and has asked me to comment on http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/powerline-home-networking/727_7090_70097_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html [09:32] yup, i have the white ones of those [09:32] 200Mb/s [09:32] you need at least two :) [09:33] Indeedie :) [09:33] czajkowski: yes, planning to go I think [09:34] czajkowski: The beer is being sponsored by one of our customers :-) [09:35] Damn you for being near London :P [09:35] AlanBell: Spaces are restricted so you do need to book. [09:35] TheOpenSourcerer: ahh didnt know you had to register [09:35] just looking to see if I have [09:35] bigcalm: devolo + 1 [09:35] how does one book? just email Abigail? [09:36] Yes, or tweet @DigitalSurrey [09:37] http://twitter.com/#!/DigitalSurrey/status/5205955163721728 [09:38] czajkowski: We will be adjourning to the Hop Blossom afterwards too :-) [09:38] I use http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150039 bigcalm [09:39] Works in a 150 year old house fine :) [09:39] http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/powerline-home-networking/727_7090_70097_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html [09:40] Woops wrong button :/ [09:41] Ug [09:42] My browser was slightly thin due to some other work. Just made it wider while on ebuyer. Instantly felt sick [09:42] TheOpenSourcerer: thanks [09:43] AlanBell: reminders have been sent re speaking [09:45] bah, need moar caffeine [09:46] popey: are the eth-over-power things functionally equivalent to a piece of cat5? i.e. could you put a switch at each end and use the mains to brige the networks together? or is there some higher layer magic that means it's only suitable for plugging a host directly into [09:47] Ng: Yup, thats how mines setup at home [09:47] Ng: You can get some that are also switches too [09:47] sweet, nice way to get a wired connection for a PC and an access point into a room with sucky wifi [09:48] Ng: see http://www.ebuyer.com/product/233956 :) [09:48] Ng: Mine gets t'interwebs to my xbox [09:49] daubers: hey that's a pretty decent value offering, 70 quid for two :) [09:49] daubers: Have you tried connecting a wireless access point to the switch at the end to improve wireless in the 2nd room [09:49] Ng: Yup, it's the second thing on my list for xhristmas# [09:49] urgh [09:49] christmas even [09:49] Xmas will do [09:49] DJones: I did at one point and it was alright (even though the AP was a bit pants) [09:50] I do like Futurama for renaming it to Xmas [09:50] bigcalm: Just don't axe why! :p [09:50] DJones: http://solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-av-pew.htm [09:50] daubers: my parents refused to put cat5 in the walls when they bought their house and had to have every ceiling ripped out to remove asbestos and now they have *awful* wifi range, so all their PCs have stupid hacks like giant USB cables to get a usb wifi stick nearer to the AP. I aim to fix this one way or another and this looks like a great option :) [09:50] so thanks :) [09:51] daubers: how likely is doom and failure from multiple power circuits in the house? [09:51] like, the upstairs and downstairs might not be connected? [09:52] They all go to the same distrabution board [09:52] The main thing is that it has to be on the same phase [09:52] Ng: I put them in my in-laws house which is extended, so has multiple loops, and they work at both ends. [09:52] This means there is the danger of 3 doors down getting your LAN as well [09:52] Ng: depends on the age of your house wiring I suppose [09:53] bigcalm: You can encrypt them [09:53] daubers: good [09:53] Ng: You also have to be aware that if you plug them into an extension lead, they're rubbish [09:53] Interesting [09:53] bigcalm: Mine have a button on the bottom which does some form of automatic encryption [09:54] daubers: ok thanks [09:54] Heeheehee [09:55] I love Latitudes descriptive phrases [09:55] "Show stale friends" [09:55] Apparentley popey and AlanBell are stale [09:55] Heh [09:57] great, so it seems that ubuntu and windows are using different audio out ports to do different speakers for this 5.1 setup... thats not a pain and a headache at all :( [09:58] daubers: which email address do you have for me on latitude? [09:58] daubers: I have got mine on an extension lead and get high speed connection between the two [09:59] hi [09:59] daubers: do I show up now? [09:59] popey: Thanks for the email [09:59] np [09:59] much appreciated [09:59] vnstat is really nice [10:00] vnstat :) [10:00] * screen-x checks his vps has vnstat running [10:01] daubers: the reason I show as stale is because latitude on iphone isn't integrated into google maps, so I have to actively start latitude, which I don't do very often [10:01] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2010-November/235439.html \o/ vnstat [10:01] popey: is there somesort of threshold which i can set and if certain parameters like packet loss and latency [10:01] kaushal: mtr? [10:01] and alert me in the form of email [10:02] nagios [10:03] or opsview [10:03] or opennms [10:04] I have a problem trying to install my printer, in that I'm asked for my admin password and when I enter it, it says that the entry was incorect [10:04] help [10:04] ian__: how are you adding the printer? [10:04] ian__: also, what make/model of printer [10:04] popey: Yes you do :) [10:04] with the disk provide [10:04] popey: I just found the phrasing a bit funny :) [10:04] lexmark impact s305 [10:05] ian__: you shouldn't need the driver disk from the manufacturer [10:05] ok [10:06] then how do I add the printer [10:06] please [10:06] ian__: are you running 32-bit or 64-bit Ubuntu? [10:06] 32 [10:06] http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=product&segment=DOWNLOAD&productCode=LEXMARK_IMPACT_S305&locale=en&userlocale=DE#1 [10:07] looks like someone has contributed a driver [10:07] http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Lexmark/Lexmark-S305 [10:07] but it's not been reviewed yet [10:07] thanks [10:07] ian__: is there an apple mac driver on the cd? [10:07] yes [10:07] hmm [10:08] i have had some success with my printer using the driver from the mac [10:08] ok if one doesn't work I can try the other [10:08] i had to install it on a mac to unpack it though [10:09] the lexmark website has drivers for Ubuntu 10.04 last updated on 16/11/2010 [10:09] i didnt see that [10:09] Didn't somebody mention that Lexmark had gone through a process of releasing drivers for linux for their complete range [10:09] thank you, catch you all later [10:09] only fedora and opensuse [10:09] ok [10:09] the driver without jre is for 64bit only [10:10] but the one with jre is i386 lexmark-inkjet-legacy-wJRE-1.0-1.i386.deb.sh.tar.gz [10:11] hmm, wonder why I cant see that at the link you gave AlanBell [10:11] There is http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=content&productCode=LEXMARK_IMPACT_S305&actp=RECOMMEND&id=DR20547&segment=DOWNLOAD&userlocale=EN_US&oslocale=en_US&locale=en with an i386 .deb for up to 9.10 [10:12] wheeeeeee [10:12] click for linux downloads, then Printer Driver with JRE for Debian Package Manager based distros [10:12] new toy [10:12] nope, i dont see that, only suse and fedora [10:13] silly website [10:13] popey: New toy? [10:13] ipad [10:14] how odd, I see without JRE for debian based distros, with jre for redhat based, with jre for debian based [10:14] popey: you should wrap that up adn put it away for xmas [10:14] AlanBell: I see the same [10:14] its not an xmas pressie :) [10:16] Q: how can you tell when someone has an iPad [10:16] A: they tell you [10:16] quoting one Alan Pope from Twitter [10:17] \o/ [10:18] pretty sure it's "they show you" [10:18] http://friendfeed.com/popey/eea129d0/humphreybc-q-how-do-you-know-when-someone-has [10:19] thats the one [10:20] And just think, it used to be all about Golf bores. Now it's iPad/Anything Apple bores... ;-) [10:20] :) [10:21] * AlanBell loves freedom [10:21] * popey loves functionality [10:21] this discussion is suited to over beers [10:21] I'm waiting for Apple to trademark a "mobile device viewing disablement system" called the iLid [10:21] an excellent plan czajkowski [10:22] I come up with some great plans :) [10:22] I have an htc hero with a PAYG sim in it, never used it to make a call, brand new. I have 3 missed calls [10:22] nobody knows the number [10:23] http://www.telepest.co.uk/01267+222640 [10:23] they called me [10:23] http://www.telepest.co.uk/01267222640 rather [10:24] Have you seen this page about that number http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/01267222640 [10:24] they're both showing much the same information - evil phone spamm0rs [10:25] what threw me is that the STD code is similar to one near me.. 01276 ~ 01267 [10:27] My university blocks outgoing SMTP connections, how can I circumvent this block so that I can send mail using Evolution? [10:27] Sending email is quite important to a uni student. [10:28] Use webmail [10:28] golly, i wonder if StudentSam is the same as Samuel-NotAFK [10:28] bigcalm: Webmail sucks. [10:28] StudentSam: use your institution's SMTP server for all outgoing. it will likely require authentication [10:28] StudentSam: send to an internal smtp server [10:28] I had a couple from an indian call centre at the weekend for a "marketing survey", 1st time said I wasn't interested, 2nd time told themthe number was TPS registered & not interested and if they rang again I charged £150 to answer a survey, if they rang back they were accepting those conditions and could they give me an address to send the bill to. They didn't ring back :) [10:29] directhex AlanBell: That may work, I'll try it. Thanks. :) [10:37] directhex AlanBell: I think the internal SMTP is only for staff at the uni. :( [10:37] StudentSam: i doubt that [10:38] "Outgoing port 25 (smtp) is blocked. This is to stop mail spammers." [10:39] and 587? [10:39] Maybe my Hotmail will work with 587 [10:40] hotmail doesn't need an smtp server. it's webmail. [10:40] directhex: I think Evolution only supports port 25 [10:40] StudentSam: i doubt that [10:41] popey: is jsvnstat configurable for eth0 and eth1 [10:42] given i use evolution on all my machines, via a departmental server on a high port number, i'm pretty sure i didn't imagine the port number [10:42] StudentSam: there will be instructions from the uni somewhere on how to set up a mail client [10:42] the instructions for outlook express or whatever will contain the required information [10:43] we are not going to be able to help further as we don't know the internals of your local network [10:43] AlanBell: e.g. http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/nexus/email/clients.xml here [10:44] which includes pine config, but not mutt [11:03] kaushal: yes [11:07] popey: you got unity on natty to work yet [11:07] popey: I lost window decs and all sorts [11:08] morning all [11:08] its not great [11:09] its on a spare laptop so i dont mind though :) [11:11] popey: yeah I'm having to run metacity --replace in terminal currently to get the laptop working properly :D [11:13] I was thinking of dropping maverick une on it and upgrading trying that way instead that or just whining at njpatel instead :D [11:13] i'm fixing the natty issues today, though I'd really wait 'till A1 is released :) [11:19] * popey tickles njpatel [11:21] * czajkowski hugs davmor2 [11:21] davmor2: that's your one for the week === yaili_ is now known as yaili [11:22] morning czajkowski what did I do to deserve that? [11:23] It's monday I thought I'd be nice [11:27] czajkowski: going down hill from here then :) [11:31] time to put on some soothing jpop and pretend its the future or at the very least, not monday morning [11:34] * njpatel sneezes for the 100th time [11:36] njpatel, are there periods of the year where you are without a cold? ;) [11:36] gord, there are, they're just few and far between [11:36] Canonical has kept me constantly poorly since joining 2.6 years ago [11:38] oh, we recently passed 770 memebers in LP === yaili_ is now known as yaili [11:44] popey: not sure how do i set it [11:44] I wanted to set both the interface [11:44] eth0 and eth1 [11:45] settings.php under jsvnstat does not allow me to do that [11:59] Has anyone noticed the cli "paste" command doing weird things? It seems to be repeating sections of my input files, odd. [12:03] hi [12:03] I am using lightning under Thunderbird [12:04] is there a way to sync up available meeting rooms in lightning under TB ? [12:04] In outlook its there [12:10] kaushal: are rooms additional calendars that you can subscribe to? [12:10] ok [12:10] screen-x: so i have to import it ? [12:11] kaushal: it was a question... I don't know how your calendaring system is setup, but if the rooms are represented as additional calendars, you should be able to subscribe to them as you would another person's calendar. [12:12] screen-x: basically we have setup meeting rooms [12:12] and its being seen on Microsoft Outlook Calendar [12:12] not sure how do i set it up on TB using lightning [12:15] screen-x: please give me a moment [12:22] howdy [12:22] things going well for people [12:22] loving my current setup :) [13:07] andylockran: Get your raid thing going? [13:35] we've been bought :P http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/broadcom-corporation-to-acquire-gigle-networks-inc-109862534.html [13:35] looks like /me will have a new employer soon [13:37] neuro: ello my dear [13:37] why aye [13:37] job going well ? [13:50] * screen-x phoned up, waited in queue, then realised he'd called the wrong company! [13:54] czajkowski: yeah, ta [13:54] just waiting to hear what's happening now we've been acquired [13:55] nods [13:55] hopefully all jobs will be uneffected [13:59] Ooooooh [13:59] Vue taking prebookings for Tron [14:05] Oooo [14:06] We have an odeon, so Wednesdays are busy time. We can go on a Friday or Saturday night and it be faily empty [14:07] tempted to go at 00:01 on the 16th [14:07] http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Novell-Agrees-to-be-Acquired-prnews-3497355694.html?x=0&.v=1 [14:08] daubers: it will be cool, but sleep is cooler :) [14:08] Novell also announced it has entered into a definitive agreement for the concurrent sale of certain intellectual property assets to CPTN Holdings LLC, a consortium of technology companies organized by Microsoft Corporation, for $450 million in cash, which cash payment is reflected in the merger consideration to be paid by Attachmate Corporation. [14:08] Probably some bloody Linux patents in there. :-( [14:09] i didn't think novell had many linux patents, but they have some powerful OIN stuff [14:09] e.g. novell own patents on ecommerce [14:09] owned... [14:11] directhex: mono? Novell beat SCO on linux, etc, etc, etc [14:11] screen-x: I saw Star Trek at that time, and it was worth it :) [14:12] davmor2: unic xopyrights? dunno what MS would do with those [14:12] i'd like to hear details from someone at novell [14:12] directhex: just full disclosure would be good :) [14:12] TheOpenSourcerer: Of course, those patents won't be valid in the UK :) [14:14] Instead of 247, they'll soon be saying 302 :-) And going after Google/Oracle/RedHat/Canonical... [14:48] hrm, ethernet over power is being a bit underwhelming, as bad as my wifi so far [14:50] i wonder if EoP works over PoO [14:50] PoE [14:50] you could connect power over ethernet to an ethernet over power device and get unlimited energy? [14:54] gord: What rate are you getting on it? [14:54] daubers, "not enough to stream hd" [14:55] i'll give it its own plug socket and see if that helps [14:55] probably the wiring, get quite decent speeds on ours at home [14:55] eh its a fairly new house [14:55] belkin summatorother [14:55] gord, "its own plug socket", you had it plugged into an extension lead? [14:56] gord: Putting it on a clean socket (no extensions) really does help [14:56] yeah ours are [14:56] think its about 80 meg [14:57] i'm a nerd [14:57] plug sockets are in very short supply [14:57] gord: Moar extension leads on the other socket :) [14:57] 's what I did with mine [14:58] gord: EoP adapters with pass-through sockets with extensions plugged in :) [14:58] ah, you make the fundamental assumption that there are two sockets daubers :) [14:59] i have two sockets at the router, almost everywhere else in my house its single sockets [14:59] What I don't understand is why extension leads are so much worse than the split that must occur in the socket box? [15:00] screen-x: Noise, you get all kinds of noise fed back from each appliance that's plugged in [15:00] so a 4 way adapter might have 3x more noise than it being on a single thing [15:01] I don't suppose anyone here can recommend me some cheap homeplug-style ethernet over power adaptors? [15:01] hmmm, need a power filter, like audio people use. [15:02] kazade: you seem to have hit the question of the moment. [15:03] I remember seeing someone discussing it in here the other day.. which got me thinking about it :) [15:03] people were raving about devolo earlier [15:03] devolo \o/ [15:03] gord: has learnt that adapters with pass through sockets are useful ;-) [15:04] and I'll buy anything from solwise.co.uk because their website is teh awesomes. [15:04] screen-x: until you need to pull out the base adapter :) [15:05] davmor2: hopefully not a frequent occurrence [15:05] screen-x: You'll be surprised [15:06] * daubers is looking forward to buying a house next year and (while then ebing overburdened with debt) being able to put structured cat 6 everywhere [15:06] daubers: thats what I did when I moved [15:06] spent the first day doing it [15:07] DaveMorris: Based on some of the discount I get in the office, I'm considering whether it's worth laying a small amount of fibre. Just to critical places like what will become an office/workshop and so on :) [15:07] Daviey: http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/kvm-snapshot-backups-with-qemu-img/ [15:07] On a related note, my feed doesn't appear to be coming through on planet.ubuntu-uk [15:07] daubers: install the fibre, then wait a while till you can afford the transceivers ;-) [15:08] cat6 will allow you to have your adsl modem/phone anywhere around the house [15:08] screen-x: :p Admittedly they are a bit expensive at ~£500 a pop [15:08] daubers: yeah, but dark fibre is all the rage :p [15:09] might get these: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/160665 [15:09] screen-x: Exactley! Ii'd lvoe to have the ability to have 10GbE networking throughout my house [15:09] install one of these on your master socket http://solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters-faceplates.htm (ADSL-NTEFACE-SOL) [15:09] DaveMorris: That *is* interesting. Was wondering about the various ways to take backups of customers' VMs without stopping them first. Currently we run backup scripts from *inside* the vm, but this isn't quite the same... [15:10] TheOpenSourcerer: yeah I thought people would find it interesting [15:12] I've put that function into my backup script, just finished setting it up to run with a couple of VPNs this week, before I roll it out over all of them. Not tried it with my Windows VM yet (only buildbot so I could just pause that domain) [15:15] daubers: I wouldn't mind plenum-rated Cat5e, but the trouble with buying a house is all the stuff you find out about /after/ buying the house [15:15] In our case the main beam of the house was broken, so that blew a few grand [15:15] ...then there's the plumbing and electric [15:15] ball: My boss found out that someone had repaired the ceiling beams by replacing them with fence posts [15:16] oh yeah, allow a budget for things not working when you move [15:16] ball: However, plumbing and electric should be easy as my old man was an electrician and my uncles a plumber :) [15:17] daubers: wow [15:17] fence posts [15:17] I suspect I'll end up moving walls and stuff wherever I move [15:17] dutchie: Yup [15:17] He wondered why it sagged a bit [15:17] took the floor up to look, and found fence posts [15:17] scary [15:18] very [15:18] I re-wired my garage to take the constant load of my computers + power tools, found that the consumer unit had been wired backwards, with the neutral been on the single pole isolator [15:18] heh [15:20] I know my house needs rewiring because none of my "grounded" outlets are and the wiring in the attic has fabric insulation. [15:20] \o/ [15:21] ball: Excellent time to lay some structured network cableing then :) [15:21] moved plugs, didn't help [15:21] hello all [15:21] i think everyone must be lying about their speeds, its the only reasonable conclusion [15:21] gord: You have disabled the wlan? It's not stil routing over your wifi access? [15:21] i have [15:22] That one got me for about 20 minutes the other week :( [15:22] it was the first thing that i did :P [15:23] gord: You could try plugging it in closer to the router. See if it's speed goes up. Also, what brand/model are these? [15:23] plugging it closer to the router isn't really what i would call a solution ;) [15:23] devolo [15:24] gord: No, but it would identify it being the EoP things are something else in the system [15:24] s/are/or [15:24] daubers: I wouldn't want the Ethernet near the power cables and besides, I can't afford to run either. [15:25] daubers, well my wifi is faster and direct ethernet is faster, i wouldn't know how it could be something else :P [15:25] ball: Ah. I just meant it's easier to do both if you already have the walls in bits to do one [15:26] gord: In that case possibly so :) I blame however your house is wired [15:26] I get ~180Mb/s across mine [15:27] 5ghz++ [15:27] Saying that, going between the two circuits in the office, I only got 85Mb/s or so [15:28] gord: Put fibre in your walls. That'll solve it :) [15:29] gord: or! Ignore the fibre completley, ensure your router has LoS to your desk and just use a laser! [15:29] IrDA++ [15:31] gord: Or! If no LoS... get some mirrors!!! [15:31] Easy this problem solving lark [15:31] i'm gonna blame the underperforming tech [15:45] BT HID is supported on iPhone4 & 3GS, but not 3G. Isn't supported on any version of android as far as I can tell :( [15:46] howdy [15:47] is there a way that two users logging onto the same server can both attach to the same screen ? [15:47]