[00:08] robert_ancell, no natty yet. wow. :P [00:09] bcurtiswx, in 38 minutes... I've been running it in a VM though [00:10] robert_ancell, i did that for a while in previous releases, but with all these graphics changes, VM's make testing and seeing the changes tough [00:10] like having unity change to default, or the switch eventually to wayland [00:15] pitti: Bryce has some mesa packaging changes for Wayland, and I was going to roll them up. That's “sometime this week”, though, so I could do mesa now as space is tight. [00:39] * robert_ancell reboots, you may or may not see me back here soon [00:42] That seems like it's worked ok :) [00:42] rickspencer3, I see what you mean about crashing... compiz crashes on startup [00:43] :/ [00:44] robert_ancell, under Unity, or just alone? [00:44] bonus feature of the menubar being able to drag the window - you can work witthout a window manager [00:44] it's just in standard gnome, but I didn't seem to have a unity option in gdm [00:44] compiz works "ok" for me, but on Friday, Unity crashed it too much [00:45] robert_ancell, I think you need to install unity, than turn on the plugin in that compiz plugin manager thing [00:45] If I run compiz --replace, I get "couldn't load plugin 'decoration'", and similar for png, svg, compozite, neg [00:45] unity appears to be installed [00:45] huh [00:45] that's pretty bad [00:45] what graphics hardware? [00:46] I'm on i965, and I even get wobbly windows [00:46] ATI M92 [00:46] r... 300? [00:46] oh [00:47] hmmm [00:47] it's completely busted on the nvidia blob too http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xsession-errors.txt [00:47] robert_ancell, RAOF can you guys help the compiz team get to the bottom of these crashers [00:47] ? [00:47] Wow, that's surprising. [00:47] at least make sure their are bugs filed [00:48] but whatever you can do to resolve these quickly [00:48] will try [00:49] RAOF, what's the best way to confirm my video driver? [00:49] robert_ancell: “glxinfo | grep renderer” is fairly good. [00:50] Xorg.0.log has more details, though. [00:50] OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R600 (RV710 9553) 20090101 TCL DRI2 [00:51] Ooookay. [00:51] What's the compiz error you're getting? [00:52] the first one is the failure to load the decoration plugin [00:52] and eventually it segfaults [00:53] yeah gtk-window-decorator segfaults quite often here, hit 37 segfaults in a 5 minute period the other day but haven't had time to look at whats going on [00:53] dmesg shows the segfault is in libopengl.so [00:54] takes out window decorations every time it does [00:54] Why do *none* of my systems *ever* exhibit these widespread bugs? :) [00:54] howdy! [00:54] what hw do you have? This is a standard Dell Studio, about 1 year old [00:55] RAOF: because you have the perfect 50%/bell curve system? :P [00:55] robert_ancell, dell studio hybrid or dell studio? [00:55] GM45, Radeon evergreen has the moste testing. [00:55] (by me) [00:56] cyphermox, standard Dell Studio 1555, bought off the website [00:56] ah, [00:56] Sarvatt: That xsession backtrace isn't nVidia related; it's a libbamf problem. [00:56] I meant it was busted on my machine with the blob, sorry :) [00:57] 'sok :) [00:57] ok, I'm going to enable fglrx and see if that solves it [00:58] RAOF, so I guess I'm going to be a guinea pig for drivers from you? [00:58] Hm. I'm not running from the Unity PPA anymore; this is stock Natty packages. [00:58] robert_ancell: I guess so! [00:59] You're probably on i386, aren't you? [00:59] amd64 [00:59] Woot! [01:00] ok, installed, I'll be back [01:01] the gtk-window-decorator segfaults will be in ~/.xsession-errors [01:01] ah too late [01:02] Hm. Has the settings migration code landed in compiz? [01:03] That might explain my differing results; I switched before the migration code and manually transferred my settings. [01:05] I had to delete ~/.config/compiz* to get a desktop up on both natty systems [01:06] Unity likes r600g quite a lot, it seems. Ah. Except for blur. [01:08] Hm. Given Robert's continued absence I'm guessing Unity doesn't like fglrx much. [01:09] very weird, my bios took *minutes* to start. Running fglrx now, but same problem [01:09] Got a ~/.xsession-errors for us? [01:12] http://paste.ubuntu.com/535412/ [01:12] weird, when I run firefox it seals the keyboard focus from all applications [01:13] steals [01:17] Hm. Ok. My compiz doesn't use the gconf backend, it uses ini. [01:18] Hm. And I *don't* load the decoration plugin. [01:18] This suggests that old gconf settings might be a problem. [01:19] sure you aren't using a PPA version? :) [01:19] Installed: 1:0.9.2.1+glibmainloop-0ubuntu3 [01:20] Yup, I am now sure :) [01:20] nope, standard 1:0.9.2.1+glibmainloop-0ubuntu3 [01:20] Backend : gconf here too [01:21] RAOF: To be fair blur does require the incredibly advanced capabilities of... fragment programs [01:21] RAOF: Don't try to enable to gconf backend [01:22] Amaranth: I wasn't going to; I was going to get them to try enabling the ini backend. [01:22] The gconf backend will pump the glib mainloop if ccp doesn't detect the glib plugin loaded [01:22] But core also pumps the glib mainloop [01:22] So... deadlock [01:23] robert_ancell, Sarvatt: So, why not try setting “ini” in ~/.config/compiz-1/compizconfig/config [01:23] why is it not the default if it has problems? [01:24] The ini backend is the default [01:24] has problems otherwise [01:24] RAOF, looks like you were right, I did a recursive-unset on my old compiz settings and now it works [01:24] If core.xml specifies the ccp plugin it'll use the ini backend by default and ccsm will still work [01:25] Amaranth: Where's core.xml? [01:25] old settings: http://paste.ubuntu.com/535414/ [01:25] RAOF: /usr/share/compiz/ [01:26] there is also some sort of redraw error when I switch windows. The window doesn't seem to redraw until it is resized [01:26] I'm going to disable fglrx and come back [01:27] well, fresh maverick install -> upgrade to natty = using gconf [01:28] Sarvatt: For compiz? That's not actually possible [01:28] Well, we've got two datapoints suggesting that it's not only possible, but it happens. [01:29] 0.9 uses a different path for the compizconfig settings file so the gconf setting won't carry over and if it somehow did compiz would deadlock [01:29] Check out their xsession-errors - http://paste.ubuntu.com/535412/ , for example. [01:29] OOo is currently eating my machine [01:30] Might take me a minute :) [01:30] Oh, someone is using unsupported third party scripts to start compiz [01:30] That's compiz-check or whatever [01:30] I have no idea what it might break [01:31] I'm pretty sure that's not compiz-check. [01:31] That's not compiz itself and the shell script we used to use didn't print anything like that either [01:31] My /usr/bin/compiz is a binary file, and *I* get that output. [01:32] http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xsession-errors.txt that one was a fresh maverick install and update to natty immediately after [01:32] Except with “ini”, and it works. [01:32] arg, did smspillaz change something? [01:33] I suspect the answer is “yes” [01:33] ok, so compiz boots now, but still no unity.. [01:33] Have you enabled it yet? [01:33] isn't it supposed to be automatic? [01:33] I'm not sure; I don't think that switch has been flicked. [01:33] Ok, OOo seems to have given up [01:34] Amaranth: But not relieved it's vice-like grip on your system? :) [01:34] It's using 874MB of RAM [01:35] robert_ancell: You know how to enable it, right? [01:35] RAOF, nope [01:36] Fire up ccsm (installing it if necessary, it's in the compizconfig-settings-manager package) and scroll down to enable the unity plugin; it's right at the bottom. [01:36] Hm. I may have broken this mac bluetooth mouse while trying to clean the scroll-ball. Boo. [01:36] Is this a PPA? [01:37] No - packages straight out of Natty. [01:40] I use a fresh user for compiz/unity testing. :) [01:41] Which might be why you haven't seen problems :) [01:41] heh [01:41] Just a suggestion. :) [01:49] I upgraded from 0.8 to 0.9 just fine === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth [01:49] I think I've killed kword too [01:50] RAOF, Now i'm running some weird broken hybrid of GNOME and unity, uh, help? [01:50] Hah. [01:50] In what way is it borken? [01:51] Oh, you've still got some gnome-panels? [01:51] well, I have a gnome-panel underneath the unity panel, and the nautilus bg. i.e. is gnome-session aware this is unity? [01:52] The nautilus BG is intentional, AFAIK. I don't think gnome-session is aware, and it shouldn't be, because the Unity you've got is incomplete. [01:52] (If you didn't have a gnome-panel running, Alt-F2 wouldn't work, and so you wouldn't be able to launch anything not already on your Unity panel) [01:53] I presume the next Unity release will actually allow one to launch arbitrary apps, by fixing the places :) [01:53] You know, unity is actually the way compiz was meant to be used [01:54] * robert_ancell shakes hand at rickspencer3 for suggesting this :) [01:54] Trying unity? [01:54] it seems a little broken at the moment... [01:54] robert_ancell: Oooh, ooh! Could you try alt-tabbing? [01:54] Uh oh [01:55] RAOF, thanks for that... [01:55] Did it crash? [01:55] Ah, so that's not just broken on Evergreen, then? [01:55] everything broke, I've manually started metacity now [01:55] :) [01:56] my gnome-panel has slowly lost all its applets, it keeps complaining they're all broken [01:56] ok, I'm off for lunch, be back in a bit [01:56] Whoa, kword has loaded my 23MB doc file and is only using 359MB of RAM [01:57] robert_ancell: If you'd like alt-tab to work, the mesa in http://cooperteam.net/Packages should work. [01:57] Oh, but it's only actually loaded 5 pages of it so far... [02:04] unity doesn't work for me either [02:04] ATI Radeon graphics card [02:06] the ubuntu logo supposedly would be clickable to show another screen.. but ATM it does nothing [02:07] as soon as i close the ccsm it crashes [02:10] Well, the Ubuntu logo doing nothing is a known deficiency, at least according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuide [02:15] RAOF: yes I originally had crashes with compiz, smspillaz suggested I turn off mipmapping for the switcher plugins, which helped. Running a RV770 here. [02:18] jasoncwarner1, to answer your question, I was able to install compizconfig-settings-manager then enable the unity plugin in ccsm [02:18] robert_ancell, now just get it to stop crashing! [02:18] I would think it's due to be enabled by default eventually, but it more or less work... though I now lose NM-applet if it's enabled :'( [02:18] TheMuso: Ok, thanks for that. I thought the mipmapping problem was restricted to Evergreen cards, which aren't going to be well supported by r600c anyway (and r600g works fine) [02:19] I see I should start fixing that mipmapping stuff. [02:20] cyphermox: thanks...installing now... [02:27] well, Is unity really planned on being default by alpha1 ? [02:27] doesn't seem like a good idea IMO if its trie [02:27] true* [02:30] I don't know; #ayatana probably does. [02:34] OK :) thx [02:35] I'd also say that Didrocks would have a better idea of that as well. [02:36] I'd *hope* he's asleep now, though. [02:36] I know didrocks and DX were discussing technical aspects of the fallback plan last night. [02:37] yeah, hes over in the UK, right? [02:37] France [02:37] then yes, he's halfway through his night by now === virtuald is now known as leagris === leagris is now known as virtuald === asac_ is now known as asac [03:05] grr, my visa card must have got copied at UDS - it got cancelled due to a dodgy US transaction [03:08] Time to go over my transaction statement, is it? :( [03:11] well, I guess it could have been copied from any country, but it never hurts [03:25] I already had that happen to me late last year, don't want it to happen again, so yeah, good idea. [03:25] ...and to think we are going to the same hotel as UDS Lucid for the sprint in January. [03:26] Which is where I suspect the copy was made.. [07:55] Good morning [07:55] RAOF: mesa> it's not "this week" urgent, but would be nice for alpha-1 [07:58] good morning === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [08:37] morning [08:37] hey rodrigo_, how are you? [08:37] didrocks, a bit sleepy still :) [08:37] :) [08:38] but fine otherwise, you? [08:38] I'm fine thanks, it's snowing a lot outside :) [08:38] oh, cool! [08:38] yeah \o/ [08:39] do you ski? [08:40] I ski, but not a lot (like 3/5 days per year), enough to enjoy it :) [08:40] you? [08:41] didrocks, show? already? where are you based? [08:41] ara: I'm currently near Annecy (in the Alps), will be finally based in Lyon next month :) [08:42] didrocks, that makes sense then :) [08:42] didrocks, yes, I do [08:42] ara: right :) [08:42] didrocks, I asked because usually people hate snow, except if they ski :) [08:43] hey ara [08:43] rodrigo_: ahah, that's more or less true. People especially hate snow in towns (it's true that it's getting dirty very quick) [08:43] hey rodrigo_ :) [08:53] ara, no snow yet in Berlin? [08:57] rodrigo_, not yet, but they say it will snow this week [08:58] ara, cool, although I guess you don't like it much? [08:59] rodrigo_, I will love it! I never lived in a city where it snows! [08:59] ah cool then [08:59] rodrigo_, I might hate in two months, maybe... but right now, let it show! [08:59] :) [09:00] hey there! [09:00] hi seb128 [09:00] hey rodrigo_, ara [09:01] how are you? [09:01] seb128, fine, thanks, you? [09:01] hey seb128, fine thanks! yourself? [09:02] I'm fine thanks [09:03] salut seb128 [09:04] lut didrocks [09:05] seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-applets/no-more-deprecated/+merge/41494 [09:05] rodrigo_, oh nice, I wanted to check where you got with those [09:06] seb128, don't approve it though, the invest applet crashes with gtk2 gir and hangs with gtk3 gir [09:06] is that new? [09:06] so trying to find where the problem is, I think it's the gtk2 gir [09:07] seb128, I could submit just the null applet part, but I've been holding this to submit both at the same time [09:07] seb128, what do you mean new? [09:07] did it work at some point and got broken by a gtk or gir update? [09:08] no, nver worked for me [09:08] ok [09:08] I asked in #introspection, and the suggestion was that it seemed gtk2 gir was broken [09:08] why did you comment the silent applet cleaning patch from the serie? [09:08] seb128, ah, still needing a rebase [09:08] rodrigo_, we don't want to depends on gtk3 yet though [09:08] yeah [09:09] and it can't use gtk3, libpanel-applet-3 is gtk2 [09:09] right [09:09] seb128, maybe you can try it to see if you have the same crash as I do? [09:09] I can [09:10] running /usr/lib/gnome-applets/invest-applet should give you the error [09:21] hum, micahg, interesting email on the list [09:21] not sure I like issues being pointed by Cc-ing other people before asking the concerned team though [09:22] seb128: I'm sorry, i wasn't sure what to do [09:22] seb128: I'll be sure to check with you next time I see an issue [09:23] seb128, can you tell me which package the files in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0/gi/overrides/ belong to? [09:24] they seem to not belong to any package, and that's where the applet fails [09:24] seb128, or python2.7 [09:25] rodrigo_, should be python-gobject [09:25] ah, ok [09:25] micahg, thanks [09:25] micahg, the people have been added to the team to be able to use the GNOME3 ppa [09:26] morning [09:26] micahg, we never really excerced the policy you pointed and I forgot about it [09:27] seb128: right, I figured as much, can I suggest separating out the uploaders from the PPA/bzr committers, we do this in the Mozilla team which allowed me to contribute heavily well before getting upload rights [09:27] is there any way to do that or do we need a new ppa team then? [09:28] seb128: no, you can keep the current team, just create a new uploaders team [09:28] well then we need a new team [09:28] we should probably ask cjwatson first, but I think that's the way to go [09:28] we can't have different acls for code and ppa in the same team right? [09:28] seb128: right, AFAIK [09:28] ok, need some discussions [09:29] well I though in the current situation we don't really need that [09:29] we can just probably get rodrigo_ and mterry approved for the team [09:30] right, I guess it depends how green the contributors generally are to packaging when they're hired [09:32] micahg, well that ppa is the official GNOME3 one [09:32] the things landing there will go to natty [09:35] we probably want to give upload rights to people who should be trusted for uploads to ubuntu [09:40] right, but there's a difference between trusted to not be malicious and trusted to not break things [09:42] in this case we want both for the ppa [09:42] Like packaging a gcr with a new ABI but not changing the package name? [09:42] :) [09:42] heh [09:43] right [09:43] rodrigo_ still need some reviewing [09:43] rodrigo_, no offense to your work btw [09:43] yes, I only upload/Merge stuff after approval [09:43] it's just that such issues are sort of basic library packaging rules [09:43] seb128, no, no offense taken :) [09:43] Libraries are hard. [09:44] well basis are not so hard [09:44] like having the naming matching the soname [09:45] checking abi breakages is harder [09:49] hmmmm, more toolchain breakage! http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59475228/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.xulrunner-1.9.2_1.9.2.13%2Bbuild1%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz [09:50] chrisccoulson: It must be so much fun to have a package so sensitive to build breakage ;) [09:51] chrisccoulson: I saw a similar break in the PPA for xul 2.0 that I thought you fixed [09:53] RAOF, yeah, it's a lot of fun ;) [09:53] micahg, i don't think i fixed anything like this yet [09:58] ah, ccsm is indeed quite nice -- I get focus-follows-mouse again, plus my keybindings, plus my 2x2 workspaces [09:58] still doesn't solve the upgrade problem, though [09:58] pitti, how did you get your keybindings? [09:59] seb128: the one I'm missing most is Alt+B to lower the current window [09:59] pitti, the recent update which activates gnomecompat and vpswitcher should solve that? [09:59] seb128: no, they didn't [09:59] you had to change the backend to gconf for it? [09:59] when I switched from metacity to compiz again this morning, everything was still broken [09:59] seb128: I did enable the gnome compat plugin manually before, though [09:59] well that's different from upgrading [10:00] your config can't be consider as upgradable [10:00] there is no way to change the list of default plugins once you are upgraded [10:00] you got in a custom state by fixing things manually [10:00] right, just now [10:00] even before, it doesn't change the list of plugins [10:00] but before that I only touched ccsm once to manually enable "gnome compat" [10:00] so, the list of plugin is always copied and considered "custom" [10:00] well what didrocks says is that the migration happens once when you install 0.9 [10:01] so if you upgraded to a buggy version you are screwed [10:01] next updates will not fix it for you [10:01] I see [10:01] so if I'd restore my maverick configuration now and upgrade again, it should work? [10:01] same issue with gnome-panel and others… [10:01] pitti, not perfectly yet [10:01] pitti: well I'm just testing this :) [10:01] didrocks: nice :) [10:01] but some of the issues are fixed yes [10:01] and we will add tomorrow the profiles [10:01] seb128: ok, I'm glad to hear that; thanks for the heads-up [10:01] pitti, yw ;-) [10:02] congrats to didrocks [10:02] * pitti hugs didrocks [10:02] he did a rocking job on getting the new compiz in [10:02] * didrocks hugs pitti [10:02] we get very few upgrade issues [10:02] just a few settings glitches but that easy to workaround [10:02] well, hope to remove every glitches + adding the profile for tomorrow :) [10:02] ;-) [10:03] but this gnome-wm thing makes me crazy, but we can't remove it, it seems… [10:03] why does it make you crazy? [10:04] seb128: I think we should try to remove it, this wrapper use alternatives that we don't use anymore, it's launched by the "required_componenents/windowmananger" gconf key, but gnome-appearance-properties overwrites it to metacity or compiz… [10:05] so, basically, it's just use until you change it in gnome-appeareance-properties which has a different logic then, doesn't look nice :) [10:06] no it's not? [10:06] the wrapper has cases for other wm out of those [10:07] it just has logic to respect the GNOME config if there is one [10:07] seb128: right, but gnome-appearance-properties shouldn't overwrite the wrapper launch then, so that we always use the wrapper and tweak the secondary keys [10:08] (also, we still have patch for dapper update…) [10:08] well arguably we are faster by overwriting the wrapper [10:09] yeah, but we have another code path and such… for instance, I don't really quite well understand why people having gnome-wm, on compiz update, seems to have metacity overwritten… (still need confirming) [10:09] there is no point to run a shell wrapper at each login to start a known wm [10:09] well, that's what we do for gdm :) [10:09] well maybe we should fix what we do for gdm then? [10:10] rather than adding slow code in the session [10:10] I'm not a fan of adding shell scripts to the session when not needed [10:10] it's just costing login time [10:10] I wanted to whip it out at first… [10:10] we had to work hard enough to spare some [10:10] but if people don't have compiz, they won't have the fallback [10:11] well we could argue that if you get out of the default install enough, ie uninstall compiz, it's your job to fix the session [10:11] we could do that for gdm, as it seems xfce people are just running an autostart .desktop file for their wm, so we can change the "mandatory" key [10:12] so, you would be in favor to remove gnome-wm definitively? [10:12] not sure, I need to think about it a bit [10:12] not removing it in any case [10:13] just not using it by default [10:13] we still need it for upgrades [10:13] user configs might be set on it [10:13] yeah, that's what I meant "removing == changing the required_component key to compiz for user session and metacity for gdm" [10:13] since we don't have a nice way to change user gconf configs on upgrades [10:14] seb128: as a side note, I'm curious, why setting metacity as default on user upgrade for dapper? compiz wasn't still the default IIRC? [10:14] what? [10:14] oh [10:15] I think because it was the default winmanager by then [10:15] we didn't want to force compiz for upgraders [10:15] we still wanted to default to what people had before upgrading [10:15] less risky way [10:15] "keep what people had and let them opt in if they want" [10:15] seb128: oh ok, let upgrade get metacity, for new install compiz? [10:15] ok :) [10:16] didrocks, correct [10:16] I was curious about it :) [10:16] so, it seems you deal with that in the upgrade for user gconf key, touching /var/lib/gnome-session/dapper-upgrade after the gnome-session upgrade [10:17] I'm still thinking do we want compiz or not, as if it's not the case, people upgrading won't have gnome-panel, neither unity [10:17] we can drop those hacks now [10:17] yeah, it's leftover for merges [10:17] didrocks, why would people not get gnome-panel on upgrade? [10:20] didrocks, ? [10:21] seb128: because with unity in the default session, we don't need gnome-panel, so removing it as a required_components [10:22] didrocks: Bug #671776 is what you were looking for :) [10:22] Launchpad bug 671776 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "NetworkManager applet not shown with applications view (affects: 1) (heat: 208)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671776 [10:22] didrocks, ok, need some thinking [10:23] vish: oh thanks! can you put it as a duplicate? [10:23] didrocks: sure.. np.. [10:23] seb128: well, basically, I have a patch on gnome-session to tell "ok, gnome-panel isn't a required component, don't respawn it" [10:24] so, we will be able to let it that way [10:24] but sounds hackish to kill it at start once unity is there [10:24] right, not to mention that we want to respawn it in the 2d session [10:25] seb128: well, the 2d session is a different session, we can let it as a required_componenent [10:25] with the gconf paths [10:25] well unity session fallback if you want [10:25] like unity session but were unity start is failing [10:25] right [10:25] so, the hack to readd it doesn't work [10:26] as discussed yesterday [10:26] it can't match the app and the client on dbus [10:26] I tried to find a way to tell "hey hey, it's the same" [10:26] but didn't work very well [10:26] could you do an email about that with all the scenario to take in account? [10:27] like upgrades using compiz, upgrades not using it, unity session where unity is not working, 2d session [10:27] I think it need some thinking out of IRC with a summary [10:27] we might get ideas on the list [10:27]