[00:04] <jdeslip> Ubuntu-Server boots so fast.  I think it is literally 2 seconds after my bios...
[00:04] <jdeslip> RHEL used to take like 2 minutes
[00:06] <jdeslip> I guess when you get rid of X, you can boot real fast :)
[00:07] <akk> X doesn't take that long, but gnome does.
[00:07] <akk> I'd love to get that 2-second boot, though! 10 sec is about the fastest I've heard of.
[00:12] <jdeslip> For server even?
[00:12] <jdeslip> It is crazy fast for server
[00:12] <jdeslip> BIOS takes way longer than Ubuntu :)
[00:14] <akk> BIOSes are amazingly slow, some of them.
[00:15] <jdeslip> ya, that is true - particularly on the MoBo's for build-it-yourself computers
[00:19] <seidos> here is an ant simulator that's available in linux that isn't in the repositories.  http://www.not-equal.eu/myrmedrome/main_en.html
[00:19] <seidos> oh, and hello, pardon my manners
[00:20] <pleia2> haha, awesome
[00:20] <seidos> apparently ants separate their cemeteries and nurseries
[00:21] <seidos> hmmm, maybe i should send it to the mailing list
[00:21] <seidos> i'm not sure if it's worthy of spamming a mailbox, but then considering the general boring stuff i get in my box...
[00:28] <jdeslip> Did you create this?
[00:30] <seidos> jdeslip, i wish
[00:31] <seidos> i'm really not good at learning languages, programming included.  probably because i just don't find myself "talking" to my computer much.
[00:33] <seidos> probably because i don't really need my computer to do anything that it can't already do, and i've already programmed a couple tiny programs...
[00:35] <jdeslip> Ya, I slowly got into programming for my desktop when I developed very specific needs :)
[00:36]  * seidos has a conversation with his computer
[00:37] <seidos> that would be a cool title for a novel "My Conversation with a Computer" or something
[00:37] <akk> I wish I could adjust my wants so my computer already did all of them. :)
[00:37] <seidos> well, it kind of already happened in Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, i really need to finish that book
[00:37] <seidos> akk, what is it that you want?
[00:38] <seidos> well, that you're computer can't provide, obviously
[00:38] <akk> seidos: I guess I could send you to my software page for a long list of the things I've (partially) added already ... more stuff all the time.
[00:38] <seidos> i'd love to program my computer to give me some food, but, i don't think that's going to happen :P
[00:38] <seidos> akk, you would have to, i don't remember your website url
[00:39] <akk> E.g. just yesterday I was writing an article and got tired of having to fix all the < to &lt; and so forth when I pasted code samples
[00:39] <akk> and ended up having to write that in elisp because emacs doesn't seem to have a way to do it already.
[00:39] <akk> seidos: http://shallowsky.com/software/
[00:40] <seidos> that is interesting, i just thought about "knows" and memory...
[00:40] <seidos> knowing appears to be more involved than just memory, because if there is no capability for feeling...
[00:41] <seidos> then do you really know it?
[00:41] <seidos> just thinking about this analogy idea i had...
[00:45] <DarkwingDuck> nuboon2age_: ping
[00:45] <nuboon2age_> yo DarkwingDuck
[00:50] <DarkwingDuck> nuboon2age_: care for a PM?
[00:54] <nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: unfortunately i'm in a hurry at the moment but can try and catch up another time
[00:54] <DarkwingDuck> nuboon2age_: roger
[00:55] <nuboon2age_> ty DarkwingDuck
[03:52] <dragon> I'm helping someone remotely to fix a system without kernel. How do I go about doing that?
[03:54] <akk> Without any kernel at all, they'll have to boot into a live cd or rescue disk.
[03:54] <akk> But how did they manage to not have a kernel?
[03:57] <dragon> akk: I removed the -server packages and installed ubuntu-desktop. I was never warned that the system was going into an unusable state.
[03:58] <dragon> akk: they're booted into a liveCD and awaiting my instructions while trying to make the box accessible to me via SSH.
[03:58] <akk> What does it say when it boots? Why do you say there's no kernel there?
[03:59] <akk> If they're in a live CD, they can mount the real filesystem and look at /boot
[03:59] <akk> and see if there are in fact any kernels there.
[03:59] <dragon> 1. There's no other option than memtest
[03:59] <akk> Maybe grub is just pointing to the wrong one.
[03:59] <dragon> 2. /boot doesn't contain vmlinuz..., initrd... etc.
[03:59] <akk> Wow, ubuntu-server must cover everything.
[04:00] <akk> How about copying over whatever kernel the livecd has on its /boot?
[04:00] <akk> (assuming there is one there)
[04:00] <dragon> oh also, there was no package called ubuntu-server.
[04:00] <dragon> LiveCD certainly has a kernel, but I'm unsure about what files to copy. Looking for an authoritative list.
[04:01] <akk> vmlinuz-... and initrd-...
[04:01] <akk> the other stuff in /boot (system.map, abi, config, vmcoreinfo etc.) aren't needed to boot.
[04:02] <akk> so you'll need the vmlinuz and initrd, then you'll need to add a grub entry
[04:05] <dragon> akk: got it. What'd be an easy way to add the grub entry? sudo update-grub isn't working as expected.
[04:06] <dragon> akk: please hilight me if possible
[04:07] <akk> It's really easy with grub1. A lot harder with grub2 since it expects to be run only from the installed system. :(
[04:10] <akk> dragon: They can probably edit (on the /boot corresponding to the installed system, not the live CD) /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[04:12] <akk> and add a section that looks like this (with the name of their real kernel, if it's not 25-generic): http://paste.ubuntu.com/535440/
[04:13] <akk> and with the root set to an appropriate partition, not (hd0,5) and the right UUID
[04:17] <dragon1> akk: yes, I'll attempt that as soon as I get the SSH access.
[04:19] <dragon> akk: it appears that LiveCD's /boot doesn't have those files.
[04:22] <akk> liveCDs do have network drivers, though, so I'm sure you can find one to download (maybe the appropriate kernel package .deb).
[04:30] <akk> It might also conceivably work to mount the real /boot over whatever is mounted from the CD, then install kernel packages and update grub (though not sure if the livecd has the appropriate grub files in /etc, might have to install/reinstall grub2 too).
[04:30] <akk> install as in apt-get
[04:33] <dragon> akk: that sounds like something I'd have to do myself, rather than sending the instructions
[04:33] <dragon> I guess they're done for the evening.
[04:33] <dragon> I wish apt-get had warned me about removing the last kernel.
[04:33] <dragon> and I'm positive I installed ubuntu-desktop package. That missed out the kernels?
[04:34] <akk> You should probably figure out which package it was you removed, so you won't do that again.
[04:34] <akk> ubuntu-desktop is desktop stuff -- X, gnome, etc.
[04:35] <akk> And it's just a meta-package -- it's one of the first things that gets removed from my systems (because I remove some things it insists on).
[04:36] <dragon> interesting. ubuntu-desktop recommends linux-headers-generic, but doesn't depend on it.
[04:36] <akk> aptitude show ubuntu-desktop | grep linux shows only linux-headers-generic, no actual kernel packages.
[04:36] <dragon> So you can have ubuntu-desktop running on your system without a kernel!
[04:37] <akk> Oh, you're right, even that is a recommendation.
[04:37] <akk> linux-headers isn't the kernel.
[04:37] <akk> linux-image is the kernel.
[04:37] <dragon> so it depends on the headers, not the actual kernel.
[04:38] <dragon> I'm starting to feel like I'm getting into trouble for recommending Ubuntu.
[04:39] <akk> If you're recommending ubuntu to a newbie who isn't near you, then telling them to remove random large package sets without testing that first
[04:39] <akk> then yeah, you'll probably get into trouble.
[04:40] <akk> I'm all for experimenting and removing stuff, do it all the time ... but not on my mom's machine just before I leave to come back home. :)
[04:41] <dragon> guess so.
[04:47] <crashsystems> Anyone in here have a thinkpad x201?
[04:48] <akk> o/
[04:53] <akk> Why? I quite like mine.
[04:53] <crashsystems> I'm thinking about an x201 for my next laptop
[04:54] <crashsystems> so you have an x201 akk?
[04:54] <akk> Yes -- sorry, o/ means someone raising their hand.
[04:55] <akk> One of those silly IRC shorthands we get used to and forget people might not know.
[04:55] <crashsystems> how is the intel gpu you running for you on 10.10?
[04:55] <akk> I'm not running 10.10, sorry, just 10.04.
[04:55] <crashsystems> ok, in 10.04 then.
[04:55] <akk> It works great on 10.04 -- it's a studly google earth machine.
[04:55] <akk> (I'm not a gamer, so google earth is my ultimate test of 3d)
[04:56] <crashsystems> does it have an hdmi port? I seem to remember seeing that somewhere, but I'm not sure
[04:56] <akk> It has this weirdo lenovo proprietary port, for which you can get an adaptor.
[04:56] <akk> I'm not sure how much the adaptor costs -- I use one at work but didn't have to buy it myself.
[04:57] <crashsystems> it doesn't have a dvd drive, does it?
[04:57] <akk> Oh, wait, sorry, ignorance: is HDMI the video thing, different from DVI?
[04:57] <crashsystems> yes, different from dvi
[04:57] <akk> No, no optical drive at all. Though at work I have a docking station with an optical drive.
[04:58] <crashsystems> what would you say are the things you like most and least about it?
[04:58] <akk> I think the answer is it doesn't have HDMI (or DVI either) built in
[04:58] <akk> but you might be able to get it through a docking station
[04:59] <crashsystems> does it have standard monitor port? I'd be ok with just that
[04:59] <akk> Yes, there's a standard VGA port built in.
[05:00] <akk> Normal plug, no dongle or anything silly like that.
[05:01] <crashsystems> how is the keyboard?
[05:02] <akk> The keyboard is fabulous. Best I've ever seen on a laptop.
[05:02] <crashsystems> :D
[05:02] <akk> With one and a half exceptions: F1 and ESC are interchanged from where I expect them, so I've ended up remapping them 'cause I couldn't get used to it
[05:02] <crashsystems> anything you don't like about the x201?
[05:03] <akk> and Alt and Fn are interchanged compared to my Vaio, but I only count that as half a complaint because it might be the Vaio that's weird.
[05:03] <akk> Wait, not alt -- it's Fn and the Windows key.
[05:03] <akk> Which reminds me, I need to put an ubuntu sticker over that Win logo :)
[05:04] <crashsystems> :D
[05:04] <akk> (thank you mark and zareason :)
[05:05] <akk> And I think it's the Vaio that's weird, not the Lenovo, because the Win key is between ctrl and alt on the Lenovo and my desktop keyboard too
[05:05] <crashsystems> I'm thinking of getting the i7 x201, swapping out the default 4gb ram with 8gb from newegg, and perhaps one of those seagate hybrid drives.
[05:06] <crashsystems> plus a decent sized external screen for when I'm at home
[05:07] <akk> This one is the i5 with 6G (2+4, I know that means they probably can't run dual-channel)
[05:07] <akk> and so far, just the original drive; I have another one that I keep meaning to put in (and I hear they're easy to open but can't speak from experience yet).
[05:08] <akk> And the original win7 takes up WAY too much space on the disk, wish I could stuff it into a VM or something.
[05:08] <crashsystems> I'd be wiping the drive with Ubuntu on the first boot
[05:09] <akk> Oh, I have the Intel wifi (happily) but I think some of them might have Broadcom.
[05:09] <crashsystems> Broadcom works quite well on my dell actuall
[05:09] <crashsystems> actually*
[05:09] <akk> Ah, okay, so you're ready for that if need be.
[05:10] <crashsystems> yep
[05:10] <crashsystems> if nothing else it would be fairly inexpensive to swap it for an intel
[05:10] <akk> I think the only Linux-related issue I've had is that under gnome, the screen brightness kept suddenly dimming
[05:10] <akk> and under openbox and no-gnome, when X starts it severely dims the screen, but if I brighten it it stays bright.
[05:11] <crashsystems> I think there is a setting for that in gnome
[05:11] <akk> I wouldn't have minded if it was like a screensaver, get bright again if I move the mouse, but it would stay dim
[05:11] <akk> so I had to do Fn-Home about six times every few minutes
[05:24]  * akk wonders if there's any way to get ubuntu to make /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video/brightness be writable by someone other than root
[15:16] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours edited
[17:32] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10December19 edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November21 edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/Current edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited
[23:34] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/WhoDoesWhat edited