[13:37] <hajour> hello Pendulum , do you have a bit of time for me?
[13:41] <AlanBell> hi hajour 
[13:41] <AlanBell> hajour: Pendulum is in the states, not sure if she is going to be very available today as it is thanksgiving
[13:42] <hajour> hai AllanBell
[13:42] <UndiFineD> vacations, great times to make progress
[13:42] <hajour> :)
[13:43] <hajour> I got some sugestions for the accessibility program
[13:43] <AlanBell> great
[13:44] <hajour> but i dont now where to offer them
[13:44] <AlanBell> here is a great place
[13:44] <AlanBell> there is also the mailing list
[13:44] <AlanBell> what sort of thing did you have in mind?
[13:45] <hajour> by exsample take orca
[13:45] <Pendulum> hi hajour, I'm in and out today so will try to answer stuff when I'm around :)
[13:46] <hajour> hai pendulem
[13:46] <hajour> pff sorry for the falts
[13:46] <hajour> what i have see is this
[13:47] <hajour> long lines.fond sizes
[13:47] <hajour> dificult words
[13:47] <hajour> undifined helps some times
[13:48] <hajour> i got dislectie
[13:48] <hajour> not good eyes
[13:48] <hajour> and apraxie
[13:49] <hajour> if it have to be accessebel for persons like me
[13:49] <hajour> its better that it have short lines.
[13:49] <hajour> simple words
[13:50] <hajour> fonds needs wider space
[13:51] <hajour> and for some people speak guidence
[13:52] <hajour> people with handicaps like to be indipent
[13:53] <hajour> take s some time to type sometimes
[13:53] <hajour> then i ask advice from undifined how to type a word
[13:54] <UndiFineD> :P
[13:54] <hajour> he just say then i write them stil bad :)
[13:56] <hajour> then there is the fact 50% of people that have ad(h)d have a kind of dislectie.
[13:57] <hajour> so page s need to be clear
[13:58] <hajour> no distraction is the best
[13:58] <AlanBell> ok, is this in relation to applications in Ubuntu or on the various websites we have?
[13:58] <UndiFineD> All alan
[13:58] <AlanBell> it would certainly be great to have bugs filed against things that don't work well, they get a priority boost if they are accessibility related
[14:00] <UndiFineD> I just explained the bugs thing, I will set up a LP account for her
[14:01] <hajour> ok also color is importent
[14:03] <hajour> i sal look to the relatet website s
[14:04] <hajour> with some help from undifined
[14:05] <hajour> i should be nice if a dilection program also have a automatic spelling corection
[14:05] <hajour> disalection program 
[14:06] <hajour> hoppe you can understand my line s
[14:07] <hajour> hope i mean
[14:09] <Pendulum> hajour: All of this stuff you're willing to do is great. It's hard for us to know what everyone needs sometimes, although some of the things you've mentioned are definitely things we already wanted to get fixed
[14:09] <Pendulum> hajour: and I understand what you're saying without problems :)
[14:11] <hajour> ok i am just a little bit unsecure .never bin on this sort of chats
[14:13] <Pendulum> hajour: We're happy to have you and you're doing fine :)
[14:13] <hajour> have you also have thought about a sound alfabet for deaf people.i now it sounds crazy.but deaf people cant hear sound .but they can feel them
[14:14] <Pendulum> hajour: I know about deaf people and feeling soundwaves, but I'm not sure how that would translate into software for computers.
[14:15] <Pendulum> To be honest, the deaf people I've talked to say their two computer related concerns are generally having visual alerts along with sound alerts and captioning video
[14:18] <UndiFineD> with certain frequencies and pulses changing, you could make a feelable alphabet for the deaf
[14:18] <hajour> thank you undifined
[14:22] <JanC> I think something like that might be an interesting project students to investigate
[14:22] <JanC> *project for students*
[14:22] <hajour> already talked it treu with undifined before i came here
[14:24] <Pendulum> JanC: yes. I think you're right. 
[14:24] <hajour> i was not sure ore i could help here.
[14:24] <JanC> it certainly would need research into what frequencies work best, how much they need to differ, etc.
[14:25] <Pendulum> JanC: by the way, the CFP for the FOSDEM accessibility dev room should be out soon
[14:25] <JanC> nice
[14:26] <Pendulum> hajour: other than things that you're interested in getting fixed, what are you interested in doing?
[14:29] <JanC> I think her ideas written out on the wiki would be useful (maybe with help from UndiFineD ?)
[14:29] <UndiFineD> yeah we can do that :)
[14:30] <Cheri703> Pendulum: I've been lurking around for a while, and I would like to help in some way, but I'm not a developer in ANY capacity. I'm not entirely sure what I can do...(though the on-screen keyboard thing is still an issue)
[14:30] <Pendulum> UndiFineD & hajour : are you two in the same location? I know you're in the same country
[14:30] <Pendulum> Cheri703: on screen keyboard issue?
[14:31] <UndiFineD> hajour says: I don know anything about software, and because of dyslexia this has always been hard to learn
[14:31] <UndiFineD> we're a couple
[14:31] <charlie-tca> Would it be best to add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/Goals ?
[14:31] <Cheri703> if you are using the on-screen keyboard, and you need to put in the password for administrative tasks, it greys out ALL other programs...including the keyboard...which seems counter productive (also unless you know how to go in and edit the main menu, there is no way to access it initially without using a keyboard)
[14:32] <charlie-tca> Cheri703, I am not a developer either. Just used to be a simple user.
[14:32] <Pendulum> I'm also not a developer
[14:32] <Cheri703> ok :)
[14:32] <charlie-tca> Cheri703, is there a bug for that?
[14:33] <Cheri703> no clue
[14:33] <Pendulum> Cheri703: can you file one?
[14:33]  * Cheri703 isn't super up on the bug thing
[14:33] <Cheri703> would it be 2 separate bugs?
[14:33] <Cheri703> one for keyboardless access, one for being unable to enter passwords?
[14:33] <hajour> i just now only a lot about dislectie ,apraxie ,add ,adhd ,motor skils disfunction, not good seeing
[14:33] <charlie-tca> if not, can you file one against at-spi using         ubuntu-bug at-spi
[14:34] <charlie-tca> single bug is okay. I will sort it out if need be
[14:34] <Cheri703> I don't even know what at-spi is...?
[14:34] <charlie-tca> That is the assistive technology package
[14:34] <hajour> and a some about autisme
[14:34] <Cheri703> ah, ok
[14:34] <charlie-tca> It will then get to the right place. Let me know what the bug number is, please.
[14:35] <Cheri703> ok
[14:36] <Cheri703> also, I did check, and it would seem to be an issue still on 10.10 (I generally use 10.04), so which version should I file it against?
[14:37] <Cheri703> or?
[14:37] <Cheri703> like I said, new to the bug reporting world :/
[14:37] <Cheri703> I think I found it...
[14:38] <charlie-tca> 10.04 is fine. I will process the bug into all versions
[14:38] <charlie-tca> sometimes having people that are willing to file bugs is a huge help
[14:40] <charlie-tca> The biggest thing when filing a bug is to tell how to reproduce the issue clearly.
[14:45] <UndiFineD> What you expected to happen; What actually happened; The minimal series of steps necessary to make it happen.
[14:45] <UndiFineD> from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[15:03] <charlie-tca> Bug 681412 , importance high, ubuntu completely unusable without using the traditional keyboard
[15:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 681412 in at-spi (Ubuntu) "Can not enter password for Administrative tasks using Onboard Keyboard (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681412
[15:16] <hajour> pendulum i sure would like to help.i dont now where to start and where i could help
[15:22] <Pendulum> hajour: well, not even thinking about computers for a second, what do you like to do?
[15:26] <hajour> i like to make things.i design clothes and make them.i paint.i make poems.i write.i play piano,clarinet,and sing.i make delicatesses without chemical igredients,like candy cake bread enz.
[15:28] <hajour> and gather information about al kinds off research related to food alergie,adhd ,dislectie enz
[15:47] <Pendulum> Okay. My first thought is that you can definitely do testing of new stuff. I'm also going to think about other things that you could do that use the skills you already have because I think they're all skills that could be very useful for us!
[15:48] <Pendulum> hajour: also, I'm jealous that you can do clothing design! I can't sew anymore so I don't even make my own clothes anymore, but I've never managed design
[15:48] <hajour> and put that information together to combine .to come to easyer and more fun ways to learn things
[15:48] <Pendulum> :)
[15:49] <hajour> thank you :) it not always works.it depends how my hands function
[15:50] <hajour> on good days i can do what i want
[15:50] <hajour> i type with 1 hand
[15:52] <hajour> but i want to do something where other people are helped with to.
[15:52] <Pendulum> :)
[15:55] <hajour> o btw there are sewing machines with posibility s to conect to pc.program on the pc.and the machine do the most of the work.
[15:56] <hajour> like a desighn s.dont be afraid to try out.if it dos not work.just try again but only a different way
[15:57] <Cheri703> charlie-tca: still around?
[15:57] <charlie-tca> yup
[15:58] <charlie-tca> onboard in menu is bug 622415
[15:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 622415 in onboard (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Onboard keyboard in not in the menu (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622415
[15:58] <Cheri703> one other thought on the on screen keyboard that I haven't tested at all, but will look into: is it accessible from the login screen? I know there is definitely no option from the lock screen, but not sure about login
[15:58] <hajour> and it depends what your body can do ore mind.ore boths
[15:58] <Cheri703> (in windows, you can pop up the keyboard for login)
[15:59] <charlie-tca> as far as I know, it is fully usable from the gdm login screen. Click the little accessibility icon in the lower part of the screen and turn it on.
[16:00] <charlie-tca> hajour, agreed
[16:00] <hajour> and never look what you can not do but to look what you can do
[16:01] <Cheri703> ok, I'll poke at it
[16:01] <Cheri703> thanks charlie-tca :)
[16:02] <Cheri703> I'm off for thanksgiving dinner :) have a good holiday / thursday, depending on what part of the world you're in.
[16:02] <hajour> have fun cherie
[16:56] <hajour> pendulum just have read back.i am wonder wich of the skills are usefull.and sure i would  help with testing.:)
[16:57] <Pendulum> design/art abilities have potential and research abilities are always good :D
[16:57] <Pendulum> plus anything you can write up about how you do things can possibly be used in documentation
[17:01] <hajour> i have to eat now. after diner i come back.:)
[19:16] <hajour> think it sal be tomorrow that undifined and i make my profie on wiki for ubuntu.
[19:18] <hajour> when undifined works on a idea ore program he often forget to sleep.so now he was very tired and is sleeping
[19:36] <charlie-tca> Great!
[19:36] <charlie-tca> We are glad to have some more help and suggestions
[19:40] <hajour> i sal do the best i can :)
[19:40] <charlie-tca> That's what we all try for
[19:41] <hajour> :)
[19:51] <hajour> i now i have to learn a lot.but i am happy i can help also.that feels good.
[20:00] <charlie-tca> I desire to help and willing to learn is the most important part. Sometimes it does become too much, though. 
[20:03] <hajour> i think you have to look good to what you can handle.and dont take to much in 1 time
[20:16] <charlie-tca> I did that, for a long time. Now, they are trying to keep me busy here and in Xubuntu.