[02:40] hajour has a "finished" wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour [02:43] sounds like she might be a real benefit to having on the accessibility team [02:44] I can't sentence today... Let's try that again. It sounds like she'd be a real benefit to the team [02:45] :D maybe she can help dutchie on the persona profile of Simon [02:45] well, do it for me considering the amount of work i have on [02:46] although term finishes a week today \o/ [02:46] dutchie: which persona is Simon? I've forgotten [02:46] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon [02:46] Ah, OK. [02:46] wonder how much i could simulate simon by taking my glasses off [02:46] might try that over the holidays [02:47] I'm supposed to be working on the cognatively impaired persona... She might be able to pitch in on that, too [02:47] I'm hoping to have a chance to get to work on that, just as soon as I'm not spending every third day at the clinic. [02:49] youre a nurse ? [02:50] haha, no, I wish. [02:50] Patient [02:51] dutchie, hajour says: she likes to work on the profile together, first project you see [02:51] oh, ok [02:51] fair enough [02:53] dutchie, hajour says: you can emulate the sight with 2 cocktail glasses [02:54] * MichelleQ recruits hubby for sight-impairment testing [02:54] ;) [02:54] UndiFineD: i am very short sighted, i was wondering how close my unaided eyes are to an officially visually-impaired person [02:54] I use font size increasement, alot [02:54] without his lenses, he's pretty impaired. I'm sure he'd be willing to help out. :-) What's one more project? [02:55] my prescription is -10 dioptres and i have only met one person who is as bad as me [02:57] hai all [02:58] its 4 o clock at night here so i stay 10 minits .then i go to sleep [02:58] good gracious, hajour! [02:58] tomorrow we 'll let her sign the CoC [02:59] It's 10pm my time, and I'm struggling to maintain consciousness. [03:00] dutchie if you take to glasses with thick soil and look treu it.then you see like the person [03:00] 3 am for me \o/ [03:00] hajour_: ah, thanks. i will try that when term has finished [03:01] the memory person. is that problems with short memory just like me? [03:02] if memory serves, it's a short-term impairment, yes [03:02] ok [03:06] imagine you go to a page but you don t find it immediately.and you are 3 pages far.then you already forgot what you are looking for [03:06] ore maiby at page s 2 already [03:06] is there no spellings control on this chat? [03:07] now i have to go to google translate every time [03:08] what good help with that problem is.a place in the corner of the monitor were can note what the person is looking for [03:09] i have to study the persons better.but that was coming right in my mind. [03:11] if 1 of you want to ask something about me about that sort of things. just ask.you sal not hurt my feelings ore something :P === nigelbabu is now known as nigelb [03:14] michelleQ dont fall asleep on your keyboard else you got tommorow a alphabet tattoo on your face :) [03:17] hmm, i will finish this problem sheet in the morning [03:17] goodnight everyone [03:17] i reely need to sleep. tomorow i sal be on chat again.mostly in the evening here [03:17] sweet dreams dutchie [03:18] i dont now how late it is in outher country s then [03:18] it's 20 past 3 here in the UK [03:19] here a hour later [03:19] Night everyone. I'm headed to bed, too. :-D [03:19] night michelle. [03:20] sweet dreams everyone i am going to sleep to. [11:29] hai all [11:29] hi [11:30] already got some information on my wiki page. [11:31] if i have it understand correctly pendulum is on vacation [11:32] AlanBell, if i got understand correctly pendulum is on vacation. [11:33] it is thanksgiving weekend in the US [11:33] which seems to be a bigger deal than Christmas [11:36] but i wonder .if i got a question about the program.wo i can talk to then [11:37] just ask your question [11:37] either someone will know the answer, or perhaps not! [11:38] or we might be able to point you in the right direction to get it answered [11:38] ok because its the first time i ever work about something like this [11:42] beter say .i have not got a job in about 18 years because of my handicaps.i just being looking around 1 month.because i now finally can concentrate thanks to the medicin i have from 2 months ago. [11:43] all i now and can do i have learned myself by doing and reading on internet so mutch i can. [11:44] and by experience [14:39] AlanBell, your person Faisal got rheumatoid arthritis. this sal be mutch more bad. if the disease sal progressing.he sal not be able to use his hands at all.he needs a speach commando program with voice recognition.the voice recognition is needed.because he need it also in class [14:42] Pendulum: I created a new series in ubuntu-website: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/light-a11y-theme [14:42] mhall119: thanks :) [14:42] you can start targetting your a11y bugs there, and if the design team doesn't get off their butts on this we'll just start doing it ourselves [14:42] I'm tired of this back and forth [14:42] so'm I [14:42] I just want to see something done [14:43] thanks [14:43] so if you and charlie-tca can start collecting ideas of what would make it better, put it there [14:43] AlanBell, i now it because my mother got that disease [14:43] np [14:43] and i got the beginning symptoms [14:45] Pendulum, what you think about my wiki page.its it clear enough for other people? [14:45] wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour [14:46] great work mhall119 [14:49] hajour: you have 4 children? how do you manage to ever have time for yourself? ;-) [14:51] hajour: the only thing I'd suggest is removing one of the headings that says "hajour" [14:51] otherwise looks good for now :) [14:52] i have no time fore myself.:)) [14:53] the 2 times hajour was not the meaning.undifined is already looking at it [14:53] :) [14:54] the inmoprtant thing is.is that it is understandeble for others [14:55] i got to look for some spelling control for here in chat :( [14:58] what also need to be in my wiki profile is:sometimes my the fingers of my left hand refuse to cooperate [15:00] then i cant use them at all.by exsample then my daughter cut my meat with diner [15:01] mhall119, i have heard from undifined what you going to do.realy great [15:04] o and i already have found 10 alfabet sighn Languages [15:04] stil looking for the french [15:06] who has person Henrietta? [15:11] Faisal need also contrasting colors.because he seeing al kind of grey .meaning more like black on white [15:11] instead of by exsample yellow he seeing light grey [15:12] my cousin is colorblind thats why i now it :) [15:16] Pendulum i now a lot of things for the persons but i can type there because my writing is very bad.undifined was last night 2 hours bussy to make my page with out mistakes :( [15:18] before that i had checkt already on google for spelling and then with google translate. [15:19] so 3 and half hours work for me and stil not good [15:20] mhall119, i got a question [15:21] hajour: wow. tbh, that's better than a lot of early wiki pages I've seen [15:22] o i dont now ore it have to be a question on you mhall119 [15:22] thank you Pendulum [15:23] mmm what means tbh [15:23] hajour: sorry, tbh means to be honest [15:23] ok:) [15:24] i have put some information in chat [15:27] i have tried to use.short lines as posible.pity i could not Select other fonts [15:34] Pendulum, think the program can be used on a note book.? i mean taking into account of the strength from the Proccesor? [15:35] hajour: what program? [15:35] the accessible program [15:35] (sorry, i've been drafing a long e-mail and not paying a huge amount of attention) [15:35] np :) [15:36] as far as I know, Orca runs fine on a notebook, I know the on screen keyboards and dasher work fine on them [15:36] hajour: does that answer your question? [15:37] this machine i am using is an eeepc 901 [15:37] heh [15:37] runni9ng xubuntu 10,10 [15:38] I haven't tried Orca on something that small [15:38] my old pc is dead [15:38] I do use on screen keyboards on my Dell Mini10v, though [15:38] undifined have say to me orca is to heavy [15:38] ah [15:39] thats the problem [15:42] Pendulum, how i can give al of my knowledge for the persons.with out put the chat full of it.they ask me to do some persons.but i have a great problem with writhing.and that is not only in english.also in my own laughwich [15:43] hajour: are you asking how to give feedback without writing it or how to give feedback on a place other than IRC? [15:44] If you are okay giving written feedback, you could e-mail me: pendulum@ubuntu.com , the mailing list: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com , or possibly AlanBell (but I won't give out his e-mail without his permission) [15:46] If you'd rather do oral feedback, if you can do it in English, we could either set up a call using something like skype for some point in the next week or so or you could record your feedback and mail it to me or post it somewhere and I could transcribe it [15:50] hajour: welcome back :) [15:50] pust the wrong button [15:50] I do that all the time :) [15:50] then the notebook was out [15:50] Unfortunately, I know almost no Dutch so I can't help as much with the Dutch -> English issue [15:51] (I started learning Dutch a bit over a year ago and then was really ill for a while so it got put on hold and I've not gotten back to it) [15:54] Pendulum, i have not al the lines what you just have say from my question till hajour welcom back the part between i miss [15:54] i just have look back on undifineds pc [15:55] mmm already lost what there was write down. [15:55] hajour: are you asking how to give feedback without writing it or how to give feedback on a place other than IRC? [15:56] hajour: are you asking how to give feedback without writing it or how to give feedback on a place other than IRC? [15:56] bah, that didn't work [15:56] let me trying pasting that again ;) [15:57] If you are okay giving written feedback, you could e-mail me: pendulum@ubuntu.com , the mailing list: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com , or possibly AlanBell (but I won't give out his e-mail without his permission) [15:57] If you'd rather do oral feedback, if you can do it in English, we could either set up a call using something like skype for some point in the next week or so or you could record your feedback and mail it to me or post it somewhere and I could transcribe it [15:57] I will not be annoying to fill the entire chat by spamming [15:58] of my knowledge [15:58] :) [15:59] sorry it takes long.have to check first and then translate [15:59] that's fine [15:59] first i read back [16:00] hi all [16:00] alanbell@ubuntu.com gets to me [16:00] hey AlanBell [16:00] but chat here or on the list is best because more people see it that way and can learn from it [16:01] yeah [16:01] I was just thinking on personas-specific things it may be more useful to e-mail one of us directly [16:01] ok [16:01] AlanBell: btw, you may want to check out the long conversation had in -locoteams today [16:02] yes, I have seen some of that [16:02] i have put some info here for your person to AlanBell [16:02] just reading back here too [16:02] :)) [16:02] thanks for that hajour, really helpful [16:02] ok.was hoping already that you har something on it [16:03] hat i mean [16:04] wo have henrietta? [16:05] she looks like me thought :P very bad memory [16:05] hajour: MichelleQ does, although I don't think she's here right now. I suspect she'd love any help you want to give! [16:07] already now solution in monitor [16:07] for that person [16:08] and speak memory program [16:08] i head is full of idea s [16:09] to bad i only can up idea s and not more then that [16:12] :) [16:17] ok i going to eat now.i sal think how i is the best way.o and i dont have a microphone. [16:26] for i forget.is there also thought about persons wit discalculie? [16:33] hajour: we'd love to think about that, but we just don't have information on it. One of the major limiting factors when it came to personas was where we did or didn't get survey respondants [16:34] to compute, to calculate, then why is a computer so bad at doing that ? [16:38] a friend of my daughter got discalculie [16:39] I can gather information about that [16:40] I have enough resources where I can get the information from [16:42] just think about spreadsheets by exsample for office work [16:43] ore programs fore on school [16:43] there is almost nothing fore discalculie [16:45] children get discalculie abacuses in klas.en that in the year 2010 [16:46] why not a pc program? [17:26] the programs that are available are mostly very exspensive.schools dont buy them because of that [17:28] most of the schools anyway in netherland.same count for the programs for dislectie.i realy find this program realy great === nigelb is now known as Guest81825 === IdleOne_ is now known as IdleOne === AlanChicken is now known as AlanBell [19:56] mhall119, thank you for helping on that bug [20:54] Hi guys [20:54] Kind of an odd question here: Are there any plans to add speech recognition to ubuntu? [20:59] hi xrdodrx [21:00] perfectly good question :) [21:01] there are two types of speech recognition, speech control which has a limited vocabulary of commands usually trained by the user [21:01] and natural language recognition which is computationally much harder [21:06] I mean the second one [21:08] I'm very accustomed to using Dragon and that's one of the reasons I don't use Ubuntu all the time :-( [21:10] By I'm not here to complain. I just wanted to know about were any plans to add it in the future [21:10] :) [21:11] xrdodrx: there are technically a couple programs in universe that do voice recognition, however, as far as I know none of them work very well. The problem is that voice recognition is a wider problem in open source software and until the program exists somewhere else, Ubuntu can't add it [21:12] Oh, I think I'm confused about it then. [21:12] I thought Ubuntu made its own Acessibility software [21:12] Sorry :( [21:12] that's okay :) [21:13] most of our accessibility software comes from GNOME [21:13] but GNOME didn't develop all of it [21:14] Well, we can only hope that one day someone will develop it [21:14] Or that Nuance open-sources its software [21:14] * xrdodrx laughs :P [21:14] heh [21:14] thanks anyway :D [21:14] there was an early version of ViaVoice that actually worked on debian and red hat, but this was 5-6 years ago [21:14] doesn't exist anymore :( [21:15] and what I'd like to see is one of the projects that's out there now such as Sphinx or Julian to get to the point where it works well, especially, since they're both still active projects [21:16] Yeah. [21:16] What's really strange is why proprietary companies don't release Linux versions :( [21:17] Nuance encompasses a LOT of software these days (they make one of the scanning packages that xerox ships) [21:17] they don't care about it [21:17] Cheri703: yeah, OmniPage [21:17] I've used them both [21:17] they don't see Linux to be as important to revenue to bother to port stuff to it [21:17] plus Linux is so varied that it's hard to release "a linux version" [21:17] I think the projects to watch are the ones that get into devices like GPS systems for cars [21:18] or telephone voice control [21:18] not impossible, but you can't release one place [21:18] AlanBell: unfortunately a lot of that is being done by places like Dragon [21:18] AlanBell: and then you could use that codebase? [21:18] I don't know if you're interested in contributing, but I've been told a couple times that one thing that they always need is more voice samples [21:18] or something like http://live.gnome.org/GnomeVoiceControl for devices without keyboards [21:18] they = the open source voice recognition projects [21:18] Pendulum: I could do that [21:19] I don't know how to code, but I could talk :P [21:19] actually there is a nice list of applications for sphinx http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/wiki/sphinxinaction [21:19] xrdodrx: apparently DNS in wine works for some people [21:20] Cheri703: I use DNS on a lot of machines; the one I'm on right now is a netbook. Wine would slow it down terribly :( [21:20] :/ [21:20] well, for reference: http://grcomputerworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/installing-dragon-naturally-speaking-in.html [21:20] But I have used it in Wine before ^^ [21:21] ah, ok [21:22] Also, voice recognition isn't really just an accessibility thing: sure, it's helpful for disabled people, but it's also very useful just for writing documents. [21:22] (IMO) [21:22] xrdodrx: I agree :) [21:23] AlanBell: is Sphinx in the software center, do you remember? [21:23] I keep thinking it isn't, which is frustrating because it's generally the first open source voice recognition people mention IME [21:23] !info spinx2-bin [21:23] AlanBell: Package spinx2-bin does not exist in maverick [21:24] !info sphinx2-bin [21:24] AlanBell: sphinx2-bin (source: sphinx2): speech recognition utilities. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6-2.1 (maverick), package size 126 kB, installed size 488 kB [21:24] \o/ [21:24] Only 500 kB? [21:24] I happen to know a few people who've used it successfully to program robots to respond to voice commands [21:24] That doesn't sound possible xD [21:24] xrdodrx: I think it pulls in other stuff [21:24] Ah. [21:25] also, I'm not sure if it has a GUI [21:25] !info pocketsphinx-utils [21:25] AlanBell: pocketsphinx-utils (source: pocketsphinx): lightweight speech recognition - command-line tools. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.1+dfsg1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 22 kB, installed size 112 kB [21:25] that too [21:26] Pendulum: That would kill it for me. [21:26] (make it useless) [21:26] yeah [21:26] yeah, last time I looked they seemed like "here is an awesome library, all you have to do is write an entire front end to it" [21:27] OTOH, the library is generally the hard part [21:27] yes, very true [21:27] !info python-pocketsphinx [21:27] AlanBell: python-pocketsphinx (source: pocketsphinx): lightweight speech recognition - Python module. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.1+dfsg1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 35 kB, installed size 180 kB [21:27] Well, I guess we'll just have to see what the future holds :D [21:28] I was trying to get the python wrapper to talk to me (or vice versa as it happens) [21:28] If someone gives me somewhere to send voice samples, I can do that much [21:28] :) [21:28] one of the things that I've noticed with a lot of open source accessibility software is that it's done by universities [21:29] Probably people that want to work for Nuance [21:29] or similar [21:29] nah. a lot of the people have moved on to do nothing in accessibility at all [21:30] yeah, lots of almost identical not quite finished things done by students who move on [21:30] right [21:30] or where it gets moved on between students over time (i.e. dasher) [21:31] there isn't much money to gain in accessibility for linux currently, while there are innitial costs for research etc. [21:31] I know :( [21:31] Other than my eternal gratitude [21:31] XD; [21:31] also, this is not an issue for something being worked on by graduate students, but I know as an undergrad in the programming courses I took, we never worked on developing anything using a GUI [21:31] actually, not quite true, we did do java applets [21:32] but that was it [21:32] and I know that the python and C classes didn't do any developing of a GUI program [21:33] (and the current students at my uni would even get the java applets since they no longer teach java at all) [21:33] Still, this would probably hurt nuances business. It wouldn't take long for a very useful Linux application to be ported to Windows [21:33] I just sometimes wish that it would work vice versa [21:33] :-) [21:33] heh [21:34] you can buy nuances technology for linux, just no end-user stuff [21:34] it's used in the embeded market though [21:35] * xrdodrx is an end-user [21:37] Embedded market? Do you mean like cell phones and stuff? [21:38] more like phone menus and other stuff [21:38] Because most cell phones are based on Linux/Unix [21:39] As far as I know [21:39] actually, most cell phones are based on Symbian [21:39] Symbian? [21:39] * xrdodrx goes to Google [21:39] OS from Nokia, became open source recently [21:39] symbian is rapidly losing market share though [21:40] I was talking about iPhone (unix/Mac OS), [21:40] Cheri703: they have > 50% of the smartphone market, and a huge lump of the ordinary phone market [21:40] android is linux though [21:40] *too [21:40] Android (linux), that other one that starts with an M... [21:40] meego I think? maybe? [21:41] Yeah [21:41] Maemo/Meego [21:41] I was thinking of Maemo [21:41] actually [21:41] there are no Meego phones yet, but it is a fusion of Maemo with Intel's mobile linux [21:41] http://blog.connectedplanetonline.com/unfiltered/2010/11/10/android-ios-overtake-rim-hone-in-on-symbian/ [21:42] symbian (according to these numbers) has more like 37% and falling [21:42] (smartphone) [21:42] Wait, is the BlackBerry OS Linux or Symbian? [21:42] but most "dumbphones" won't be having speech recognition included in general [21:42] LOL dumb phones [21:43] Blackberry is an OS based on AROS or something like that IIRC [21:43] I wish I could find a stat on Symbian that wasn't off their own website (which is where the >50% thing comes from) [21:44] I have also been under the impression that Symbian was on a downturn and whether they can reverse that or not has yet to be seen [21:44] oh no, QNX [21:44] supposedly symbian.org is closing down next month [21:44] Pendulum: search "android ios symbian market share" [21:44] ah no, it's their new OS that is based on QNX [21:44] that's where I found that link [21:44] I remember QNX, they did an amazing OS on a single floppy [21:45] well, Nokia is working on Meego to replace Symbian for high end phones [21:45] for Smarphones basically [21:45] AlanBell: the Blackberry tablet OS is based on QNX [21:46] Nokia has some major issues with selling smartphones in the US [21:46] or at least has in the past [21:47] Pendulum: they are still the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world [21:47] (largely because they haven't managed to strike deals with the mobile phone networks so things like the N95 were $800) [21:47] yeah [21:47] but even they admit that that's not due to sales in the US [21:47] * Cheri703 is an HTC fan [21:47] I do not even think that any Nokia phones are offered by my carrier [21:48] I like my iPhone. I've liked the Nokia smartphones I've used, but I'd never be able to afford them in the US [21:48] xrdodrx: who is your carrier? [21:48] Cheri703: yeah, I have an HTC EVO [21:48] Pendulum: Sprint [21:48] locking a phone to a carrier is forbidden in Belgium :P [21:48] heh [21:48] I wish it were here too [21:48] I'm lusting after the evo, I'm due for an upgrade, but waiting til the price drops a bit [21:48] I have the hero [21:48] I think it's forbidden in France as well [21:49] * xrdodrx wishes it was forbidden in the US [21:49] Well, we can't even get net neutrality, but that's a whole different matter [21:49] on the other hand, the phones might end up being as expensive as unlocked phones are generally [21:49] JanC: how expensive are smartphones in Belgium? [21:50] phones are expensive, but you can get free or cheap phones with some contracts, they just can't lock the phone to it [21:50] ah, okay [21:50] you still have to pay the contract of course [21:50] so that does still happen [21:50] yeah [21:51] we can get free, cheap, or cheaper-than-full price phones in the US with contract [21:51] but no "iPhones only work with network X" [21:51] or we can get really expensive phones that aren't locked to one network [21:51] (like the Nokia smartphones) [21:52] JanC: do they sell iPhones in Belgium? [21:53] xrdodrx: they do (first refused to do so while they lobbied to get the law changed, but that didn't work :P ) [21:56] even "cheap" contracts that don't come with free/cheaper phone are more expensive than prepaid for me, so I'm totally not interrested in any of those expensive contract offers that come with "a cheaper smartphone"... :P [21:59] mhall119: got a sec to talk about this light-a11y-theme thing? [23:17] AlanBell: sure [23:24] so looks like it is based on light-base-theme [23:24] I haven't really used that, what is it for? [23:25] and is this series something that would ever get deployed anywhere? [23:32] AlanBell: right now it's a direct copy of light-base-theme [23:33] but it's going to be the place I start implementing accessibility changes [23:33] great [23:34] we learned some interesting things over the last few days, principally that ubuntu-website is nothing to do with website design [23:35] it's goal is to be the implementation of the design team's designs [23:35] light-a11y-theme is going to break from that unless and until we get an accessible design from the design team [23:36] ok, so what prevents us doing a stack of work on light-ally-theme which then sits there not being used on any websites? [23:36] I'm hoping it won't be more than alternate css stylesheets, so they can be adopted by the other light-*-theme branches [23:37] AlanBell: well, I maintain the light-django-theme, so I'll make sure it goes there [23:37] you're doing light-moin-theme, aren't you? [23:37] well kind of [23:37] in fact no, I am not [23:38] well, however maintains those others would be responsible for incorporating the accessible design changes [23:38] I have offered code to fix some bugs in light-moin-theme [23:38] all light-a11y-theme will do will be provide them with the settings [23:38] kind of like what light-base-theme was [23:38] there isn't any direct inheritance of base theme though is there? [23:39] not technically, though light-django-theme uses unmodified css from the base theme [23:39] but I think light-django is the only one that does [23:40] ok, I have done stuff with light-moin-theme and light-wordpress theme but I don't recognise much in light-base-theme [23:41] I think light-wordpress-theme used an existing wordpress theme and modified that to look like the base theme, instead of going the other way [23:41] not sure how moin came about [23:42] who is maintaining the moin theme? [23:42] newz2000 is maintaining it [23:42] ok [23:42] it wasn't on launchpad until I made a fuss about it [23:42] and now the trunk on launchpad is behind the production server as some live changes were made [23:43] glad you did, cause I've got some changes to it for him [23:43] live changes, FTL [23:43] indeed [23:43] especially as there is an outstanding approved merge request with the changes in [23:44]