[00:03] <cjohnston> mhall119: how do I do the south thing again? :-/
[00:06] <cjohnston> ./manage.ph startmigration venue add_spr --auto
[00:06] <cjohnston> ?
[00:06] <cjohnston> py of course
[00:28] <cjohnston> sweet.. i figured it out.. now to see if all is right
[00:29] <cjohnston> so far so good
[00:55] <cjohnston> just pushed a fix for bug #528829
[00:55] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 528829 in loco-directory "No field for 'state' in venue record (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528829
[01:59] <mhall119> cjohnston: did you check in your migration file?
[02:00] <cjohnston> umm
[02:01] <cjohnston> I does it not do that on commit -m?
[02:03] <cjohnston> mhall119: best I can tell I did, I don't have the scroll up.. but trying another bzr commit says no changes.. do I have to do something special to commit the migration
[02:05] <mhall119> cjohnston: you have to bzr add ./venues/migrations/000#_whateveryoucalledit
[02:06] <cjohnston> oh ya.. der
[02:06] <cjohnston> pushed
[02:19] <cjohnston> mhall119: another merge request
[02:27] <mhall119> cjohnston: btw, I've stopped commiting translation changes, since we export new translation templates as part of the release process
[02:27] <cjohnston> gotcha
[02:27] <mhall119> I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing
[02:27] <mhall119> but it makes diffs smaller
[02:27] <cjohnston> true
[02:28] <cjohnston> but then its a huge translation diff at the end
[02:28] <cjohnston> I dont know which is better
[02:28] <mhall119> yeah, but in the end you can just blow away whatever is there and replace it with the newly exported one
[02:29] <mhall119> and it won't cause merge conflicts when we're testing stuff on our local branches
[02:29] <cjohnston> yup
[02:31]  * nigelb waves
[02:31] <cjohnston> nigelb: !
[02:31] <nigelb> mhall119: Got it working on Flask, struggling, but getting there :-)
[02:31] <nigelb> cjohnston: Hola, hows you?
[02:31] <cjohnston> so I hear the nigelb wants to be a ld dev :-P
[02:31] <cjohnston> not too bad
[02:32] <cjohnston> mhall119: I'm hoping tonight means I'm finally getting out of my slumo
[02:32] <cjohnston> mhall119: I'm hoping tonight means I'm finally getting out of my slump
[02:32] <nigelb> heh
[02:36] <cjohnston> nigelb: you having issues with responsiveness on the server?
[02:37] <nigelb> cjohnston: hah, I thought it was my end
[02:37] <cjohnston> I dunno wtf just happened
[02:37] <cjohnston> it needs a reboot again.. stupid server
[02:37] <nigelb> lol
[02:39] <cjohnston> load avg is fine, mem usage is fine
[02:39] <nigelb> just conectivity isn't
[02:42] <mhall119> cjohnston: order_with_respect_to doesn't seem to be a Form.Meta attribute
[02:46] <cjohnston> nigelb: DDoS at the DC
[02:50] <mhall119> cjohnston: proposed a merge to your branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-directory/681981/+merge/41991
[02:51] <mhall119> merge that into your branch, test it, if it works right push it to your branch on LP and I'll approve it and merge it into trunk
[02:58] <nigelb> cjohnston: what happened? o.O
[03:05] <cjohnston> quit
[03:05] <cjohnston> nigelb: im gonna reboot it since we are having downtime issues anyway
[03:06] <nigelb> cjohnston: sure, np :-)
[03:06] <cjohnston> killin it in one min
[03:07] <nigelb> latersall
[03:11] <cjohnston> mhall119: fixed
[03:13] <nigelb> cjohnston: sigh
[03:13] <cjohnston> back
[03:13] <cjohnston> they said it should be fixed
[03:13] <cjohnston> they were getting 3gigs of inbound traffic a second
[03:13] <nigelb> ewww
[03:18] <cjohnston> mhall119: should have just marked no on mine and made your own, instead of proposing to merge into mine, taking my info out
[03:18] <cjohnston> lol
[03:22] <mhall119> cjohnston: that'd be less work for you then :P
[03:22] <mhall119> approved your spr branch with modifications
[03:22] <cjohnston> cool
[03:37] <mhall119> cjohnston: see my comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/651238/+merge/41988
[03:38] <cjohnston> see my fix?
[03:39] <cjohnston> o
[03:39] <cjohnston> hmm
[03:39] <cjohnston> ya
[03:39] <cjohnston> i fixed it
[03:39] <cjohnston> 29 minutes ago
[03:39] <cjohnston> right?
[03:40] <mhall119> ah, so you did, let me try it again
[03:40] <cjohnston> lol
[03:41] <cjohnston> I'm trying to work on Bug #618602 but ive begun to frustrate myself
[03:41] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 618602 in loco-directory "would like to turn off registration on specific events (affects: 1) (heat: 2)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618602
[03:43] <mhall119> approved and merged
[03:43] <cjohnston> sweet
[03:45] <cjohnston> people are going to check their email on monday and flip
[03:46] <mhall119> nah, I think dholbach is the only one who reads those
[03:46] <mhall119> I know i don't
[03:46] <cjohnston> lol
[03:46] <cjohnston> czajkowski: does
[03:53] <cjohnston> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/681981/+merge/41990
[03:53] <cjohnston> :-P
[04:00] <cjohnston> mhall119: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/608289   how is it currently determined what continent to place the venue in? just based upon the country?
[04:00] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 608289 in loco-directory "Add continent field to venue (affects: 1) (heat: 1)" [Low,Triaged]
[04:02] <cjohnston> and dont teams go based upon their countries as well, and not have a specified continent?
[04:04] <mhall119> yeah, country should be the go-between for continent
[04:05] <cjohnston> i dont understand
[04:06] <mhall119> oh, I see now, old bug I had forgotten about
[04:06] <cjohnston> invalid?
[04:06] <mhall119> not really
[04:06] <mhall119> the issue is that some countries, like Turkey, are in two continents (Europe and Asia)
[04:07] <mhall119> if we say a venue is in Turkey, then we don't really know if the Venue is in Europe or in Asia
[04:07] <mhall119> we don't want to list a venue in Asian-Turkey as being in Europe
[04:07] <cjohnston> right.... so how would you make it work.. if the venue has it specified, then display based upon spec, if it doesnt display whatever the "default" is for that country?
[04:08] <mhall119> are you still working on bug 618602?
[04:08] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 618602 in loco-directory "would like to turn off registration on specific events (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618602
[04:08] <cjohnston> and would/should we not also add continent to teams too then?
[04:08] <cjohnston> i kinda gave up
[04:08] <mhall119> ideally we add a Continent field to the Venue to let them specif
[04:09] <mhall119> here's a simple fix to that bug: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-directory/618602/+merge/41994
[04:09] <cjohnston> right.. but most of the venues that already exist, probably wont get updated
[04:09] <mhall119> cjohnston: right, I think if the Venue.Continent is blank, we use the first continent for the Country
[04:10] <mhall119> this would be a very low priority bug though
[04:10] <cjohnston> ok..
[04:10] <cjohnston> ya.. im just trying to find something to work on
[04:10] <mhall119> as it affects only a handful of teams
[04:15] <mhall119> you could do code-reviews if you can't find code to hack on
[04:15] <cjohnston> I think theres only one or two now right?
[04:15] <mhall119> two
[04:15] <mhall119> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/627492 would be a good one for you to work on
[04:15] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 627492 in loco-directory "Limit selection of loco-contacts to team members (affects: 3) (dups: 2) (heat: 17)" [High,Triaged]
[04:15] <cjohnston> lol
[04:16] <mhall119> why is that funny?
[04:16] <cjohnston> cause id have to figure out where to start
[04:18] <cjohnston> I get to go see TSO on the 12th!
[04:24] <mhall119> nice
[04:25] <mhall119> look at how ./events/forms.py TeamEventForm uses the grouped_venue_list function to suppose self.fields['venue'].choices
[04:26] <mhall119> that's what you'd need to to do supply just UserProfile.objects.get(team_set=team_object)
[04:26] <mhall119> s/get/filter/
[04:26] <mhall119> but you'll get the idea
[04:27] <mhall119> g'night
[04:27] <cjohnston> theres another review waiting for you :-P
[08:48] <YoBoY> good morning
[12:41] <cjohnston> mhall119: ping
[12:43] <czajkowski> cjohnston: filling up my inbox again I see 
[12:44] <cjohnston> mhall119: I told you she would say something!
[12:44] <cjohnston> czajkowski: your point?
[12:44] <cjohnston> we had a little hack session last night
[12:46] <czajkowski> nada 
[12:46] <czajkowski> :)
[12:47] <cjohnston> :-P
[12:50] <mhall119> morning cjohnston and czajkowski 
[12:50] <czajkowski> mhall119: ello
[12:51] <cjohnston> hey mhall119 
[12:51] <mhall119> cjohnston: I'm not sure "loco-user" is the best default
[12:51] <cjohnston> I'm getting an error on your registration field
[12:51] <cjohnston> pick something then
[12:51] <cjohnston> :-P
[12:52] <cjohnston> 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'fromlocaltime'
[12:52] <cjohnston> czajkowski: what should the default nick be for someone who isnt logged into LD when they go to the chat page
[12:52] <mhall119> cjohnston: can you pastebin the stacktrace?
[12:52] <mhall119> cjohnston: I'd be okay with locodir-user or ld-user
[12:52] <cjohnston> ok
[12:53] <mhall119> just not crazy-user
[12:54] <cjohnston> http://paste.ubuntu.com/537036/
[12:54] <czajkowski> Ubuntulocouser? 
[12:54] <czajkowski> or locoteamember ?
[12:56] <cjohnston> but our they a locoteammember
[12:56] <mhall119> cjohnston: good catch, I thought we required venues for events
[12:56] <cjohnston> nope
[12:56] <mhall119> cjohnston: did you file a bug on that yet?
[12:56] <cjohnston> no.. because right now, we make team meetings based upon not having a venue
[12:57] <czajkowski> Ubutuuser?
[12:57] <cjohnston> and there should be the ability to add an event even if there is not yet a venue
[12:57] <cjohnston> imo
[12:57] <mhall119> cjohnston: I know, I'm working on the fix
[13:02]  * nigelb jumps up and down.
[13:02] <nigelb> mhall119: I got it working \o/
[13:02] <cjohnston> uh oh
[13:02] <mhall119> got what working?
[13:03] <nigelb> Flask was pretty cool, good community and good docs and easier to use than django :-)
[13:03] <nigelb> https://github.com/nigelbabu/git2web
[13:03] <nigelb> http://imagebin.ca/view/lIGHeHz.html
[13:03] <mhall119> cjohnston: bug 682103 has a merge proposal
[13:04] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 682103 in loco-directory "Error adding event without venue (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682103
[13:04] <cjohnston> whatcha makin mr. nigelb 
[13:05] <nigelb> cjohnston: web interface to gitosis server
[13:05] <nigelb> first web thingy in python 
[13:05] <cjohnston> gitosis sounds like a disease
[13:05] <nigelb> err, first web thingy I'm writing in python
[13:05] <nigelb> cjohnston: lol, it predates stuff like github
[13:06] <nigelb> Very nice tool, its a git server, very little configuration and pain involved
[13:06] <cjohnston> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/656205/+merge/41996
[13:06] <mhall119> cjohnston: have you come to an agreement on the default webchat username?
[13:06] <mhall119> still says loco-user in the diff
[13:07] <cjohnston> give it a sec.. must not have updated yet
[13:08] <cjohnston> its up now mhall119 
[13:08] <mhall119> yeah, I got it
[13:08] <mhall119> looks good
[13:16] <cjohnston> mhall119: looks like I have a day of programming... if I can stay in the mood.. hope and kids are going out on a play date
[13:17] <mhall119> fun
[13:17] <mhall119> I'll be heading out in about an hour to Melbourne
[13:17] <cjohnston> boo
[13:17] <cjohnston> whats goin on over there?
[13:17] <nigelb> mhall119: Australia? O_O
[13:17] <mhall119> Michelle scored us an hour ride on a sailboat
[13:17] <mhall119> nigelb: no, Florida
[13:17] <cjohnston> oh that thing ive been seein her post
[13:18] <mhall119> yeah, that thing
[13:18] <cjohnston> I have a buddy out in LA who has a sailboat that he took me out on a few years ago.. was a really good time
[13:18] <nigelb> mhall119: Woo, have fun :-)
[13:18] <mhall119> the kids will enjoy it
[13:18] <mhall119> I hope
[13:18] <cjohnston> as long as they dont get scared i should
[13:19] <cjohnston> s/i/they
[13:41] <cjohnston> nigelb: bug 650647 is something you could work on
[13:41] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 650647 in ubuntu-website (and 1 other project) "Check the footer color (affects: 1) (heat: 5)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650647
[13:41]  * nigelb looks
[13:42] <cjohnston> iirc I know its wrong
[13:42] <nigelb> cjohnston: wait, isn't there a branch?
[13:44] <cjohnston> yup
[13:44] <cjohnston> rejected
[13:44] <cjohnston> so if you want to get his file, and make a new merge
[13:44] <nigelb> what theee
[13:44] <nigelb> thats a lot of changes in 1 merge
[13:44] <cjohnston> ya
[13:44] <cjohnston> thats why I no'ed it
[13:45] <mhall119> cjohnston: bug 681978 is something we can fix in code
[13:45] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 681978 in ubuntu-website "website design causes text to overwrite other text (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681978
[13:45] <cjohnston> well.. we dont have access to fix it
[13:46] <cjohnston> but everything is specific sizes for a reason, so, we can ask matt, but I would say thats a design team decision
[13:46] <nigelb> newz doesnt belive in fluid layouts:/
[13:49] <cjohnston> mhall119:  bug 682112
[13:49] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 682112 in loco-directory "When using outside registration, "Attendees" text should not be shown (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682112
[13:49] <cjohnston> What should Attendees be changed to.. Register
[13:49] <cjohnston> ?
[13:49] <czajkowski> whas wrong with Attendees?
[13:50]  * nigelb waves to czajkowski :-)
[13:50] <czajkowski> nigelb: hi
[13:51] <nigelb> czajkowski: good weekend?
[13:51] <czajkowski> yeah grand
[13:51] <nigelb> :-
[13:51] <nigelb> :-)
[13:51] <cjohnston> czajkowski: if you arent using LD to register attendees, why display attendees
[13:52] <cjohnston> reference: Bug #618602
[13:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 618602 in loco-directory "would like to turn off registration on specific events (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618602
[13:53] <cjohnston> mhall119: do we need to be worried about all the schemia changes?
[13:54] <czajkowski> hmmm
[13:54] <czajkowski> cjohnston: still be nice to see for those who are using it 
[13:54] <cjohnston> right
[13:54] <cjohnston> it needs to be an if
[13:54] <czajkowski> nods
[13:55] <mhall119> cjohnston: worried? no, but have a backup ready
[13:55] <cjohnston> ok.. I just wasnt sure if we should do a bunch at once or seperate them out
[13:56] <mhall119> a bunch at once is fine
[13:56] <cjohnston> Should it be "Attendees"/"Register" based upon the registration location?
[13:56] <mhall119> cjohnston: I wasn't going to make that much  of a change
[13:57] <cjohnston> what do you mean?
[13:57] <mhall119> do you think we should make it more explicit that they're using a different system?
[13:57] <cjohnston> it just looks silly to say "Attendees" if there will never be a list of attendees imo
[13:58] <mhall119> true
[13:58] <mhall119> I doubt it'll be used that much, so I didn't put a whole lot of work into it
[13:58] <cjohnston> if you think that sounds good, ill do it
[13:59] <mhall119> sounds fine to me
[13:59] <cjohnston> czajkowski: any objection to that wording?
[13:59] <czajkowski> seems fine
[13:59] <czajkowski> I can only see it being used the odd time tbh 
[14:00] <cjohnston> I agree..
[14:00] <cjohnston> It seems like some people in our loco would rather use meetup tho.. so i dunno
[14:02] <cjohnston> mhall119: that email from charlie is also reference to the wiki having 4 colors of links
[14:02] <cjohnston> which is a design team thing
[14:02] <czajkowski> *sigh* I wish folks would realise some things are design issues and not bugs against the LD 
[14:03] <Pendulum> well, design issues are bugs in the LD, they're just not ones that the LD team has much control over
[14:04] <cjohnston> but it doesnt need to be reported against LD/ubuntu-website imo
[14:04] <cjohnston> all it does is creates noise
[14:04] <czajkowski> aye 
[14:05] <czajkowski> noise isn't always constructive 
[14:05] <Pendulum> Other than e-mailing and e-mailing and e-mailing the website team and the design team, what can be done?
[14:05] <Pendulum> because I know most design issues are accessibility related
[14:05] <cjohnston> well.. if they choose not to deal with it, other than elevating it above them (i dont know if that would work) then nothing
[14:06] <Pendulum> and I need to know what to tell my team when they're getting frustrated and feeling like they're being ignored
[14:06] <Pendulum> and we can start bringing in jono on everything (and he has offered), but I think it's a bit ridiculous that everything keeps having to go that way
[14:07] <cjohnston> try to schedule a meeting with the two relevant design team members
[14:07] <czajkowski> yes but logging the issues against LD when the design team arent even on LD bugs I think is the issue 
[14:07] <czajkowski> at least with regards to the LD 
[14:07] <cjohnston> LD and ubuntu-website
[14:07] <Pendulum> czajkowski: but a lot of people don't know that the design team isn't on those bugs
[14:07] <Pendulum> I didn't realise they weren't, tbh
[14:07] <cjohnston> I mean, sabdfl stepped in and said to close the last bug.. 
[14:07] <czajkowski> Pendulum: but looking at a bug, you can see who is ....
[14:08] <Pendulum> czajkowski: right, but if people don't know every person on the design team
[14:08] <czajkowski> well it'll say deisng team or even the key people.
[14:08] <czajkowski> I not trying to make excuses 
[14:08] <Pendulum> tbh, I'd think the people on the design team who work on things like the website design _should_ be on the LD and website bugs
[14:08] <cjohnston> let them know that the design team, afaik is not subscribed automatically to ANY ubuntu-website or loco-directory bug
[14:09] <czajkowski> I'm just tired of seeing the design team get blamed for not doing stuff if they don't know ....
[14:09] <cjohnston> Pendulum: but then they will get bugs saying that the md5 hash needs to be updated.. which has NOTHING to do with them.. so they dont need the extra spam
[14:09] <Pendulum> I think the problem here is communication
[14:10] <Pendulum> so other than e-mail/mailing lists, is there a place that bugs can be filed for design issues on the LD and website?
[14:10] <cjohnston> the ubuntu-website package is NOT for design ideas... it is for bugs in the website... if a page isnt being displayed properly (properly means the way it was intended), if some text is wrong, etc
[14:10] <cjohnston> nope
[14:11] <cjohnston> we follow the design guidelines which are published by the design team.. if the problem is with the design guidelines, it needs to be taken up with the design team
[14:11] <Pendulum> okay
[14:11] <Pendulum> than that needs to be communicated
[14:12] <cjohnston> then the question needs to be asked.. and it has been communicated.. many times.. by myself and others
[14:12] <Pendulum> because in the past we've been told (admittedly not be LD/website people) that design bugs should be logged
[14:12] <Pendulum> and that they should be filed against where they're found
[14:12] <cjohnston> if it is a bug in which the LD is not following the design guidelines, then it needs to be reported to us.. if the problem is the design guidelines, its out of our hands
[14:12] <czajkowski> We've had the design team over view the LD 
[14:13] <Pendulum> *nods*
[14:13] <czajkowski> and they've said it' meets their standard
[14:13] <Pendulum> yeah, the problem is that their standards aren't accessible :(
[14:13] <cjohnston> minus the bugs that we have filed.. but non are a11y
[14:13] <czajkowski> so if we're doing it wrong, it's not our fault, so the issue needs to go to design team 
[14:13] <Pendulum> who on the design team does the website design?
[14:14] <cjohnston> its in the emails.. i forget.. i think aljandra and yali (im sure i misspelled both
[14:14] <nigelb> yali?
[14:14] <nigelb> (gah, cjohnston was too fast)
[14:15] <Pendulum> okay, I knew alejandra
[14:15] <cjohnston> yali is the css guru
[14:15] <czajkowski> I'm meeting with her on thursday 
[14:16] <czajkowski> I'll bring it up again with her 
[14:16] <Pendulum> czajkowski: thanks. 
[14:16] <Pendulum> I'm also going to send an e-mail out to the accessibility team asking them to cease and desist on the bugs
[14:17] <czajkowski> ok
[14:17] <Pendulum> what are lists I can tell them to e-mail about design issues?
[14:17] <cjohnston> Pendulum: I wouldnt go filing off a hundred emials
[14:18] <cjohnston> you need to get everything together and make one email
[14:18] <Pendulum> cjohnston: but when we send one, the entire thing gets ignored
[14:18] <cjohnston> i would have a point of contact with your team, and all issues go to that person, and then that person sends an email
[14:18] <cjohnston> send a hundred and im sure they will get pissed off...
[14:18] <nigelb> Having worked with desingers, that's sometiems the way to get work done.
[14:18] <Pendulum> cjohnston: we tried that when the design sample came out for the website. the e-mail was ignored
[14:19] <nigelb> s/sometiems/always
[14:19] <Pendulum> (so before the new website was launched)
[14:19] <cjohnston> this is just like the moving the buttons from R to L.. I marked the bug invalid based on the images that they released.. and noone believed me.. the design met the guidelines.. so most of the bugs that get filed are technically invalid because they meet the guidelines
[14:19] <Pendulum> right. and I realise what it really means in the long run is that the guidelines are the problem
[14:20] <cjohnston> Pendulum: then I dont know what to tell you.. im not in a position to speak for them.. all I can tell you is that people on the ubuntu-website team and LD team are getting pissed.. and by people, so that im not speaking for others, I do mean myself...
[14:20] <Pendulum> cjohnston: I know, but a good number of people on our team are pretty pissed as well. And for them it's a matter of even being able to use the websites.
[14:21] <Pendulum> and they feel like they're chasing tail because the only people who seem to even acknowledge the issues are you guys
[14:21] <cjohnston> right.. but its like talking to jono about a gwibber problem... barking up the wrong tree
[14:21] <Pendulum> yeah
[14:21] <czajkowski> It's an unforatunate catch 22 here folks 
[14:21] <Pendulum> yep
[14:22] <czajkowski> logging bugs aginst the LD only gets delt with by cjohnston mhall119 dholbach Daviey and a few others
[14:22] <czajkowski> they are the ones getting the flack from people when things arent changing and it's nothing tey can do about it 
[14:22] <nigelb> The problem is a11y bugs need to be documented somewhere, and -website is the only project to log it on
[14:22] <czajkowski> so the issue is with the guidelines 
[14:22] <Pendulum> it's really too bad there's no "website design" project that bugs could get logged against
[14:22] <cjohnston> ubuntu-website is NOT for the website design
[14:23] <czajkowski> nigelb: you're getting confused on the issues here 
[14:23] <cjohnston> unless there is a BUG in the website design
[14:23] <nigelb> czajkowski: um, no
[14:23] <nigelb> cjohnston: the themes go where?
[14:23] <cjohnston> there is no BUG.. it is as intended
[14:23] <nigelb> But how do we convince the design team that the intention needs to change, which is the problem here?
[14:24] <Pendulum> cjohnston: so things are intended to cut out a group of people so they can't access the website?
[14:24] <cjohnston> it will have to be done through communication with the design team.. not bugs against the website
[14:24] <cjohnston> Pendulum: the design is as intented
[14:24] <cjohnston> i doubt that is the intent.. but raising bugs with someone who cant fix them is a waste of time and resources
[14:25] <Pendulum> cjohnston: we're just saying we wish we had a place we could raise the bugs!
[14:25] <cjohnston> and im telling you how to do it
[14:26] <Pendulum> cjohnston: you're saying e-mail the design team. that's not logging a bug. i'm just saying I wish there was a way to do a launchpad bug. I'm not saying your way is wrong, I'm saying it's frustrating and complicated to explain to new users
[14:26] <nigelb> cjohnston: Can we raise the issue with design team to have a project where we could redirect these bugs to?
[14:26] <cjohnston> if communication with the design team fails, I hate to say it, but thats not my problem.. the a11y team will have to figure out what it takes to get done what they want to get done
[14:26] <Pendulum> and I really do hate the fact that we have a website design that even I have trouble reading. It really doesn't feel inclusive to me :(
[14:27] <cjohnston> nigelb: if you want to, sure
[14:27] <Pendulum> but I know that's not because the developers chose that design
[14:27] <nigelb> I believe that should solve our immediate problem
[14:27] <cjohnston> whats the difference between email and logging a bug... both can be ignored
[14:28] <nigelb> cjohnston: bugs leave a clear trail
[14:28] <nigelb> and can be seen in one-shot instead of having to scourge though archives
[14:28] <cjohnston> so does email
[14:29] <Pendulum> not if we're getting told to send private e-mails
[14:29] <cjohnston> noones said private emails... but you still have your outbox
[14:29] <Pendulum> bugs allow other people to discuss possible fixes and chime in even if they haven't seen it
[14:29] <cjohnston> if the design team wants to allow a project to be created for the design guidelines in which they subscribe, then go for it.. but I wouldnt just make it and subscribe them
[14:30] <Pendulum> and IMO for a new user it may be less threatening to file a bug than to e-mail a team they know nothing about
[14:30] <nigelb> cjohnston: I'm suggesting that as the solution to the catch-22
[14:30] <cjohnston> take it up with them
[14:30] <nigelb> We're stuck, can't file bug because the folks who see it can't fix it
[14:30] <czajkowski> can I make a suggestion, that this is not the time or place as I know this is a subject that people  feel pasionate about and stuff is going to be said shortly that will usept and offend people
[14:30] <czajkowski> tis getting kinda heated in here
[14:31]  * czajkowski offers somce ice tea around 
[14:31] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I was about to suggest that myself :)
[14:31]  * nigelb hugs czajkowski :)
[14:31] <cjohnston> I want a teabag!
[14:31] <czajkowski> who knew I could be the voice of reason,
[14:31] <nigelb> I want dinner, its 8!
[14:31] <czajkowski> cjohnston: I am gonna wallop you good and propper! 
[14:32] <cjohnston> please
[14:32] <nigelb> czajkowski: I'll help you there ;-)
[14:32]  * czajkowski goes off sight seeing 
[14:32]  * cjohnston goes to shower
[14:33] <nigelb> I guess I'll order chicken tikka biriyani and some lassi :)
[14:40] <mhall119> oh, I love chicken biriyani
[14:42] <nigelb> :D
[14:42] <nigelb> this is chicken tikka, so the chicken is roasted over fire instead of cooked in oil
[14:42] <nigelb> More tastier
[15:00] <cjohnston> mhall119: when we do translations at each merge, they get added to the translations template or whatever.. does that then make them available for translators to translate even though the code hasnt been published?
[15:00] <cjohnston> if so, I think that may be better due to giving translators more time to translate prior to release
[23:16] <mhall119> cjohnston: no, it only gets into rosetta when the new .pot is checked into production I think