[00:07] o and thanks for the answer dutchie [12:03] hai all [20:22] Pendulum, if you don't mind, you appear to be stuck with me for a while [20:22] charlie-tca: I want you around. [20:23] Great! got to much to try and get done to go away [20:23] charlie-tca: you're important for this project and that e-mail was not about you in particular. It was that the way things were happening weren't working and finding a better way [20:24] and obviously something happened since alejandra has now e-mailed with a mock up for trying to fix the website design [20:24] Yeah, I read it again. I am really frustrated with the websites. It really gets to me when my eyes start fading again. [20:25] Maybe did a teeny bit of good, too. [20:25] totally understandable [20:25] I understand. I'm hoping that there's now a compromise that will work [20:25] and I think we are moving to a better working relationship with the design team and web team [20:25] partly as a result of kicking up a bit of a fuss [20:25] yeah [20:26] Just seems a little(or a lot) wrong that the website team keeps saying the design team is responsible, but they won't be told anything is wrong... [20:26] it is, which is what happened on saturday [20:27] heh, then it is okay [20:27] charlie-tca: one of the reasons I copied as many people as I did on that e-mail was because I wanted jono and the design team to be aware that the LD and website people were not being helpful [20:28] or were being helpful in limited ways [20:28] but now we have demanded their attention we have to concentrate on building that better working relationship [20:28] yeah [20:28] Agreed. That's why I got to keep quiet on it [20:28] I'm all for AlanBell or phillw to take the thing [20:29] *nods* [20:29] well aint that an easy excuse, someone else is responsible, i thought people should think for themselves ... [20:30] What? me letting go? [20:30] "the website team keeps saying the design team is responsible" [20:30] Oh, that. Yeah [20:30] UndiFineD: yes, and now we understand what they actually meant by that [20:31] I asked phillw to join the channel [20:31] hajour will be back online later, I had to re-install the eepc, this time fullblown ubuntu, which is eassier for config [20:32] me and phill get along well :) [20:32] Well, I kicked the ball as hard as I dared. [20:32] hey phillw :) [20:32] Hello, phillw [20:32] appears as summonsed, I'm good like that :P [20:34] hi phillw :) [20:34] o/ [20:34] We were discussing the website and design team stuff [20:34] In response to the email, I was thinking of grabbing AlanBell tonight and asking if he wished to be 1st point of contact. We are both UK based [20:34] oh, me and hajour did a lot of work on personas together ... might want to check it out [20:35] I am happy either way [20:35] UndiFineD: awesome! [20:35] hiyas UndiFineD, we'll have to stop meeting like this, people will talk :D [20:35] phillw, as long as it is not me [20:35] hiyas charlie-tca and Pendulum [20:35] shht phillw [20:35] * AlanBell wonders off for food [20:36] UndiFineD: that'd be really good, as the accessify forum is really interested in how ubuntu is driving forwards. [20:37] I know I'm not that active on the mailing list, but I do follow avidly what is going on and have another convert to coding sites to AAA standards which is always good :) [20:38] we did some work in hajour her pages, based on personal experiances: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/accessibility [20:39] I really should use the forums :-/ [20:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/accesibility [20:39] I just have only so many methods of communication that I can handle at once [20:39] missing an S i see [20:40] phillw: I'm happy with either of you so the two of you can duke it out ;-) Just please copy me on related e-mails to the design team, etc. if you can? [20:42] Pendulum: we will, myself and AlanBell already know eachother so it's hardly going to be a fight to the death :) [20:44] * charlie-tca thinks that would be good. We need both people [20:46] yeah [20:46] heh [20:47] charlie-tca: we already liase across another project, or two. So you'd get two for the price of one :P [20:47] phillw: btw, if you didn't know, I'm Penelope :) [20:47] Pendulum: I guessed :P [20:47] (I get confused between people often and have spent my day fighting on medical stuff so my brain isn't working anyway) [20:49] sorry, Pendulum. I know that one well, too [20:49] I am always here to help in any way I can, I quietly (and some times loudly) champion accessibilty, it is something I very strongly believe in. [20:49] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw#Accessibilty [20:50] I might get a little loud, too, now and then. [20:50] charlie-tca: you'll love this, my insurance is currently approving a week of PT at a time [20:50] you [20:50] you're kidding! :-( [20:51] nope [20:51] they approved 3 visits initially [20:51] so last tuesday I had to fill out another survey for them [20:51] they've approved another 2 visits [20:51] Hard to believe. but then, mine approved two visits initially, then I had to reapply monthly [20:51] so this thursday I'll fill out another one [20:52] to make it worse, if I don't show improvement, they'll deny [20:52] even after 3 visits [20:52] (went through that with different PT over the summer) [20:52] yup, improvement is all that matters, isn't it? [20:52] doesn [20:52] heh [20:52] doesn't occur to them the progress might be slow and take time to show [20:53] I love that for my genetic condition I'm supposed to magically improve in 3 visits, one of which was an eval with no treatment [20:53] so I tell them I'm improving whether I am or not [20:54] You have to. It's the only way to keep things going, sometimes. [20:54] and working with the therapist to get stuff I can do at home or in any pool so that when insurance stops improving it's not a disaster [20:54] *approving [20:54] but I have an insurance where doctor's offices see it and cringe [20:55] I had a total of 6 months last time my legs went. It took about 4 years to get them fully working. [20:55] from what I can tell it covers about the same as medicaid (possibly a little less) with much higher copays [20:55] That hurts, too [20:55] yeah [20:56] I did try doing some of the stuff without filing the insurance claims. They charge me about twice what they charge the insurance [20:58] I pay $50/visit for PT. which is admittedly a lot better than the $300/visit I'd probably be paying out of pocket [20:58] what is PT ? [20:59] UndiFineD: physiotherapy [20:59] oh [20:59] :) [21:00] charlie-tca: what really gets me is that the insurance companies make deals with providers. So I'd get charge out of pocket about $300, I pay a copay of $50, and then it turns out the deal my insurance company has made means they only pay $30 [21:00] do you have your a chance your health will improve Pendulum / charlie-tca [21:00] ? [21:01] I know, Pendulum. It is really frustrating. [21:01] And then the insurance wants to know why you used it... [21:01] UndiFineD, not here. Mine improved as much as it will. It is slowly going downhill now [21:01] UndiFineD: not hugely. I have a rare genetic condition called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and it's a matter of trying to manage symptoms, but it probably will get worse ;) [21:02] that aint good, sorry to hear [21:03] you do the best you can while you can [21:03] tbh, the only things I really care about improving are pain and fatigue levels [21:03] Pendulum, Have you been able to try modafinal for fatigue? [21:04] pain and fatique are the worst indeed [21:04] charlie-tca: no. because no one is doing a good job of managing my meds right now [21:04] It is probably the best drug out there for it. It does take monthly authorizations from the insurance company, though. [21:04] I'm not sure my insurance covers it at all, tbh [21:05] I can make it through a normal day with 100mg a day, but it is still about $3 a pill, too [21:06] as for the rest, the VA says, "what do you think will help?" and prescribes whatever I tell them :-( [21:06] heh [21:06] I just don't know the right drugs and doses to even try [21:07] I've just had to fight to get any medication [21:07] since I spent so long undiagnosed [21:07] that the only doctor willing to treat my pain was my psychiatrist [21:07] insurance deciding whether your allowed to get medicine ? that is crazy, it means one day they can say "just die already" [21:07] UndiFineD: the US healthcare system shouldn't have "care" in the name. and it's very messed up [21:08] yup [21:08] so I'm now trying the pain clinic route, but we'll see [21:10] My sister is doing that, too. Trigeminal Neuralgia for 10 years [21:10] unfortunately I maxed out on non-narcotics when I was about 18 [21:10] and no one likes putting someone my age on narcotics [21:11] heh, they don't like putting someone my age on them. We have to push for it [21:11] addictive, they said. [21:12] my answer: takes the pain lower? addictive is better than not at all [21:12] but, then you have to keep increasing the dose to maintain the effectiveness [21:12] Pendulum: one of my cousins has the narcotics fight in hospital ERs regularly [21:14] charlie-tca: medical marijuana is my answer to how they should solve that problem. doesn't generally end up with the same levels of tolerance as narcotics do [21:15] This is true too. Doesn't calif. have that now? [21:15] a bunch of states do [21:15] CA has for a while [21:15] sadly my state doesn't :( [21:15] Oregon has it, Idaho does not [21:16] I'm actually on marinol, which works better for me than a narcotic but not as well as actual marijuana, but we never managed to actually get dosage that was perfect with it because we were worried about messing too much [21:16] tried medicinal weed ? [21:16] UndiFineD, not legal in many of the states here [21:16] UndiFineD: in the Netherlands yes, but not availible everywhere here (it's what we were just discussing) [21:17] sometimes pot works better than morfine [21:17] UndiFineD: not the only reason I love Amsterdam, but I have to say I'm in better shape there than I am anywhere else these days ;-) [21:22] move to another state / country perhaps ? [21:25] UndiFineD: if I could, I would [21:25] hajour:my eepc crashed so can t come on my own chat. [21:25] hajour:not my falt this time [21:25] UndiFineD: say hi to hajour for me :) [21:29] Well, I better go try to natty again [21:29] hajour: pendulum in 2008 i had a acute hernia.they have operate 3 days later.they have give me morfine a lot.but i needed more and more.my neighbour hath ms.she adviced me weet for the pain.i needed not mutch to ease my muscles [21:31] hajour:they hat say i not was able to walk again. [21:32] hajour:just proved my body is weird i think. because in about 10 months i walked again with no help [21:34] hajour:but i think that the boss from your haeltcare must exsperiance the pain you have.lookwhat he have to say after that day [21:35] hajour: Pendulum about the accessibility program [21:36] hajour: What you think of the sugestions i have made? [21:37] hajour: UndiFineD have help with the technical words and spelling [21:39] good night charlie-tca [21:40] good night, UndiFineD [21:40] hajour: goodnight charlie-tca [21:40] good night, hajour [21:41] LOL hajour was mistaken by the word "natty" [21:41] I explain [21:42] hajour: thought you was going to sleep charlie-tca [21:42] oh [21:43] Sorry. I just have to try and fix Natty Narwhal [21:43] hajour: sorry [21:43] I broke it in three systems at the same time [21:43] clusterssh ? [21:44] no, three different installs, one on a p4 2.8GHz. One on VirtualBox and one on a amd64 [21:44] and three different problems, too. I am good! [21:46] bug triaging :) [21:46] I should do some testing on natty myself soon too [21:46] It isn't really working yet [21:46] i use vm [21:47] virtualbox [21:48] yeah, me too. but with unity and compiz, VBox won't work for Ubuntu images [22:06] also, VM's don't generally do 3-D accelleration which means you can't test Unity on them [22:07] my system does not do 3d at all [22:07] *nods* [22:07] I bought an ATI video card so I can test natty [22:08] compiz does work, for a bit, but the dual gpu setup is giving poor performance [22:08] onboard bad ati does the rendering for an offboard good ati gpu [22:09] onboard does not get turned off due to a hardware bug [23:53] great to see duanedesign 's cli companion nearing release: helps for memory issues