[08:15] <dpm> good morning all!
[08:17] <andrejz> Morning!
[08:21] <dpm> good morning andrejz!
[08:21] <andrejz> dpm, i have a question for you (again) :)
[08:22] <dpm> andrejz, no problem, shoot ;)
[08:22] <andrejz> While testing some translations i found out that launchpad import function doesn't work as it should
[08:22] <andrejz> Some translations aren't updated from upstream for a long time
[08:22] <andrejz> an example in our case is gnome-system-monitor
[08:23] <andrejz> which was imported in september 2009
[08:23] <andrejz> and not imported afterwards (from gnome)
[08:23] <dpm> let me have a look at the package...
[08:24] <andrejz> the same thing happened with evolutoin, which was automatically imported from upstream some 2 weeks ago, but not since february before
[08:25] <dpm> ok, let me see if I can find out something
[08:25] <andrejz> i noticed it yeasterday and manually added translation from upstream
[08:26] <andrejz> because i wanted to fix errors before language pack update
[08:27] <dpm> ok, yeah, I'll be looking at the package itself, so don't worry, your latest uploaded translations will not make a difference to what I'm looking at
[08:27] <andrejz> ok, good
[08:43] <dpm> andrejz, ok, I've found out what's happened with gnome-system-monitor. The upstream version is 2.32, whereas in Ubuntu we've got 2.28 (I don't know why, but I'd guess for stability, security or dependencies reasons). So unless you've been comitting to the gnome-2-28 upstream (I'm guessing not, because it's an old version and you've probably been comitting the latest translations to head or gnome-2-32), there are no new upstream translations that c
[08:43] <dpm> an be imported
[08:43] <andrejz> yes, i see.
[08:43] <andrejz> we were always commiting to the newest stable and unstable branch
[08:44] <andrejz> this is not good, because we fix bugs in gnome and then don't check in launchpad.. so is it possible to get a list of packages which are older than newest upstream version?
[08:46] <dpm> andrejz, there might be, but we'd better ask in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-desktop. Let me see if there's anyone around that can help us
[08:46] <andrejz> ok, that would be great, thanks
[08:51] <dpm> ok, asked, let's see if anyone can help
[08:53] <oier> Hello
[08:53] <oier> a team member told me that there is a bug with a basque translation in the kubuntu installer
[08:54] <oier> the original string is "Try Kubuntu"
[08:54] <oier> I am looking for the corresponding package to fix it
[08:54] <oier> but can not find it
[08:54] <oier> could you please help me
[08:55] <oier> ?
[08:58] <andrejz> Hello Oeir
[08:58] <dpm> hi oier, is that what you're looking for: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/eu/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=try+kubuntu
[08:59] <oier> no
[08:59] <oier> that translations are correct
[09:01] <dpm> oier, ok, can you give us more information, so we can better help? What is the incorrect translation? On which version of Ubuntu is it shown?
[09:01] <oier> he told me that the current (wrong) translation says "saiatu kubuntu" instead of the correct "probatu kubuntu"
[09:02] <oier> he didn't told me in which version it is shown but I assume it is Maverick since it followed a post in which I forwarded your message about the Maverick LanguagePack updates
[09:03] <andrejz> oier, it's possible that the translation is correct but has not been exported in time
[09:04] <oier> I am not sure...
[09:04] <dpm> oier, nothing comes up after a search for "saiatu" in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/eu/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=saiatu - that's the only package where AFAIK that string is shown. Could you please ask the person who asked to give more detailed info? E.g. a) Ubuntu version, b) where does he see the string c) a screenshot, if possible, would be great
[09:05] <oier> yes
[09:05] <oier> I can ask him to fill a bug
[09:05] <oier> by the way, I am unsure about how kubuntu translations are managed by Launchpad
[09:06] <dpm> they are managed more or less the same way the gnome translations are
[09:06] <oier> so I assume most of the translations of KDE are imported from upstream
[09:06] <dpm> yes
[09:06] <oier> but we can modify them in Launchpad?
[09:07] <dpm> yes
[09:07] <dpm> oier, probably there is no need to file a bug for the "saiatu" issue. If he can just give you that info, you can just forward it to us on IRC and we'll try to find out. If the problem becomes complex, we can think of filing a bug
[09:08] <oier> ok
[09:10] <oier> by the way dpm
[09:11] <oier> did you received my email yesterday with the question?
[09:12] <dpm> oier, yes, I haven't got to it yet. Let me see if I can answer you in the next few minutes
[09:12] <oier> thanks!
[09:13] <dpm> no worries :)
[09:27] <dpm> andrejz, here you can see all the desktop-related packages' versions. If you want to filter out on versions, you can play around with the code used to generate the list (there is a link at the bottom of the page). I hope this helps
[09:29] <andrejz> where is here?
[09:31] <andrejz> i think you forgot to give me the link
[09:31] <dpm> andrejz, err copy & paste fail, here it is: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html ;)
[09:31] <andrejz> ok, great thanks
[09:32] <andrejz> i would also like to mention that i agree with the procedure for SRU of lang pack
[09:33] <andrejz> Also about the thing i was bugging you last week - about the list of words - we found a solution via a firefox extension and it works great for our purposes. I will blog about it on the planet sometime this week
[09:33] <dpm> ah, great, glad to hear that, some people were not so happy with it and preferred langpacks to be updated without testing, so that's great to hear :)
[09:33] <dpm> and looking forward to hear more from that FF extension :)
[09:34] <andrejz> Well, in general i believe that in 99% of the cases the translations improve with the update so it's not really that necessary, but i think it's good to do a quick check
[09:34] <andrejz> that's how i found out gnome-system-monitor translations didn't update properly
[09:35] <andrejz> my moto is that you always learn something (even if it's not what you thought it would be initially)
[09:37] <dpm> :-)
[09:38] <dpm> oier, if you're still around, I've replied to your e-mail question on a private message, let me know if that helped you
[09:39] <oier> yes it helped very much
[09:39] <oier> thanks
[09:39] <oier> BTW
[09:39] <oier> I got feedback
[09:39] <oier> from the translation bug
[09:40] <oier> the reporter told me that the string appears when you boot from a Kubuntu or Ubuntu 10.10 CD
[09:40] <oier> and you get two options "try (k)ubuntu" or to install it
[09:41] <oier> so that first string appears to be the problematic one
[09:41] <oier> is that the ubiquity package?
[09:41] <dpm> oier, yeah, if it's not bootloader, it can only be ubiquity or debian-installer. Try to do a search for "saiatu" there
[09:42] <oier> ubiquity-debconf?
[09:42] <andrejz> dpm, i have an idea. Do you think it's possible/makes sense to add some space on the installation slideshow (like two or three sentences) where translator teams could add link to local pages / support forums
[09:43] <dpm> oier, yes, sorry, I meant ubiquity-debconf, not ubiquity
[09:43] <oier> ok
[09:43] <oier> I think I found it
[09:43] <andrejz> if someone uses ubuntu in slovenian it would be great if he would also have links to available ubuntu resources in slovenian
[09:44] <oier> thanks!
[09:47] <andrejz> or anyone else - so you think idea above is good / makes sense ?
[09:49] <dpm> andrejz, that's something someone tried to do by changing the links to the official channels in a translation, and the ubiuity developers weren't too happy about it. The argument was that for an LTS release there should only be links that are supposed to be alive throughout the 5 years lifecycle of the release. That said, I think it makes sense. It would be a good idea to start a debate about it. Perhaps on the ubuntu-translators and loco-contacts
[09:49] <dpm>  mailing lists + the ubiquity-slideshow one, if there is one
[09:49] <andrejz> OK, i will post it on loco contacts and ubuntu translations later today
[09:58] <oier> dpm
[09:58] <oier> I have another problem...
[10:00] <oier> a team member exported the translations of Transmission in Launchpad (which is upstream) and imported it in the Maverick package
[10:00] <oier> but 58 unstranslated strings are shown after the import
[10:01] <oier> and it looks like some strings have been slightly modified
[10:01] <oier> for example from "Set _Location..." in Launchpad
[10:01] <oier> to "Set _Location" in the maverick package
[10:02] <oier> or from "Use _global settings" to "Use global settings"
[10:05] <oier> do you know why or how this divergence happened?
[10:12] <oier> dpm are you there?
[10:40] <dpm> oier, I am back, I was in a call, let me have a look...
[10:42] <dpm> oier, the divergence is because most probably the upstream code is newer than the maverick package. So I think the upstream code (which might not even have been released) might have just changed some original strings, but these new strings are not in maverick yet, because maverick has the latest stable version of the package instead of the bleeding edge upstream code
[10:43] <oier> but 58 different strings are quite a lot and most of the changes are minor things as you can see in the examples
[10:48] <dpm> oier, well, to Launchpad "_this string" and "this string" is not a complete match, so it won't add the translation of the first one to the second one, and it will not do fuzzy matching either, so even if "_this string" is translated, when importing the translations, when it finds "this string" it will not translate it
[10:48] <dpm> so it does not matter if it's a minor difference, as long as it is a difference, translations will not be carried over
[10:50] <oier> ok
[10:50] <oier> thanks
[14:15] <dpm> TLE, are you around? Are you happy with using the next maverick PPA langpacks for testing and subsequent upload to maverick-updates? I figured out, that even if they did not fit any scheduled date on the calendar, we might as well release them asap, since it's been too long without any update for maverick
[15:03] <askhl_> dpm: For what it's worth I think it's an excellent idea to release a langpack update at this point
[15:04] <dpm> askhl_, ah, thanks for the feedback, glad to hear that!
[16:18] <TLE> dpm: get back to you when I get home, or tomorrov of you have left by then
[16:29] <dpm> Andre_Gondim, could you confirm that bug 632760 has been fixed in maverick for the Brazilian version of Firefox?
[16:29] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 632760 in language-pack-zh (Ubuntu) (and 6 other projects) "Language variants don't work in Firefox because the language codes are separated with an underscore rather than a hyphen in chrome.manifest (affects: 16) (dups: 1) (heat: 103)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/632760
[16:52] <Andre_Gondim> dpm, let me c, just a moment
[16:53] <dpm> cool, thanks Andre_Gondim :)
[16:54] <Andre_Gondim> dpm, yeah, it's solved
[16:55] <dpm> thanks Andre_Gondim!
[17:02] <TLE> dpm: hey
[17:02] <dpm> hey TLE, thanks for coming back to me :-)
[17:03] <TLE> *G* np, I was in the lab all day, so I didn't see your message before like 1 minute before I was running out the door
[17:04] <dpm> :)
[17:04] <TLE> you were saying something about doing an update soon, because we have not have one yet
[17:09] <TLE> ok, so
[17:10] <TLE> according to the plan it is release + 2, 6, 12, 22, 35 and 43 weeks
[17:10] <TLE> 2 and 6 have already passed due to me being to slow
[17:11] <TLE> 12 would be due in week 1 of next year and should be a 2 week testing release
[17:11] <dpm> TLE, it's not you being slow, it's just the way it went. The maverick PPA was not ready until last week, so there is not much we could do
[17:11] <TLE> but we could just move it forward and take it in the first beginning of december
[17:12] <TLE> in the first part of december
[17:12] <TLE> I'll draw up a scedule right now and send it to you
[17:13] <dpm> TLE, I was thinking of doin it this week as per the message I sent to the list. The packages in the PPA will be ready on Wed/Thu and we could send the call for testing then
[17:13] <TLE> and then along with I'll also send those durations of the different parts of a language part update that we talked about
[17:13] <TLE> ok, that sound fine
[17:14] <dpm> TLE, ok, that sounds good too, thanks
[17:38] <TLE> dpm: there we go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA/MaverickLanguagePackUpdateReleaseSchedule
[17:45] <dpm> TLE, great, thanks! One thing though: I'd suggest shortening the test period to 1 week instead of two, in order to reduce the time it takes to get a language pack out. It is also the same amount of time the QA team spend for the testing periods before releasing milestones during the release cycle, and I think the simple tests we've got with translations shouldn't really take more than a week. Does it sound good to you?
[17:46] <TLE> just for this one, or in general?
[17:48] <dpm> in general
[17:50] <TLE> we could do that, since people have been warned in advance that is probably ok
[17:51] <TLE> it would however not be exactly one week but more like 5 days
[17:58] <dpm> TLE, I think it should still be fine, if not, we can look at going back to 2 weeks. Btw, why would it be ~5 days instead of 7?
[17:59] <TLE> deadline for testing is one day before upload and call for testing is probably one day after they have been uploaded to released
[18:01] <dpm> right, gotcha
[18:02] <TLE> I'll update the schedule in a sec
[18:04] <dpm> ok, thanks. So I'll go ahead with the schedule and do the call for testing when the packages are copied to -proposed
[18:06] <TLE> yes
[18:07] <TLE> btw, about the calendar
[18:07] <dpm> and I've just read your e-mail, thanks a lot, I'll update the figure accordingly
[18:07] <TLE> I'll just do a google calendar (and I-Cal file) this time, then we can figure out later if that is the way we want to go
[18:07] <TLE> great
[18:09] <dpm> TLE, yeah, I think that'll be the easiest option to get us started. Once we've got that, we can copy the milestones to the main calendar or decide if we want to keep it separate
[18:09] <TLE> dpm: yes
[18:12] <TLE> dpm: there we go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA/MaverickLanguagePackUpdateReleaseSchedule
[18:12] <TLE> do you see any other problems with it?
[18:13] <dpm> TLE, we'll also have to think the location where we want to have the wiki calendar, as I'd like to have it somewhere else than as a subpage of LanguagePackQA - I'm thinking of either w.u.c./Translations/MaverickLangpackSchedule, w.u.c/MaverickLangpackSchedule or w.u.c/MaverickReleasaSchedule/MaverickLangpackSchedule. I haven't thought about it in detail yet, and I'm open to suggestions. It may well be that after the e-mail conversation with Kate S
[18:13] <dpm> tewart we consider putting it in that *Interlock page or on the main release schedule page
[18:13] <dpm> TLE, let me have a look at it now, thanks
[18:15] <TLE> w.u.c.?
[18:16] <dpm> wiki.ubuntu.com, sorry
[18:16] <TLE> ahh *G*
[18:17] <TLE> I don't have any string opinions about that, maybe it's most appropriate as a w.u.c./Translations/-subpage?
[18:17] <TLE> err: strong opinions
[18:18] <dpm> TLE, yes, perhaps. I'll think about it and come up with something before Thursday
[18:18] <TLE> string opinions what the hell is that, maybe something you have considering python
[18:18] <dpm> TLE, well translators do have strong string opinions when reviewing translations ;)
[18:19] <TLE> true abough :: yes ok, but as long as the wiki-page is done is should be easy to move, I will get going with the calender so we can have it all ready for thursday
[18:20] <dpm> TLE, yeah, the updated Maverick schedule looks good to me, I think we're good to go to road-test it on the update this week. And yes, having the calendar there by then would be awesome
[18:28] <TLE> grumble, enter time zone madness
[18:31] <dpm> TLE, :-) I'd just stick to UTC
[18:32] <TLE> yeah, the problem is that I google calendar uses my time as the reference, oh well, I'll figure it out
[18:55] <dpm> ok everyone, see you all tomorrow!
[18:55] <michael_k> bb!