[00:00] <charlie-tca> Pendulum and AlanBell are personas, myself, Pendulum are wiki, TheMuso is development, and the then it gets hard to decide
[00:01] <hajour> for new people it might be useful
[00:01] <charlie-tca> true
[00:02] <hajour> charlie-tca,  can we make self also personas?
[00:02] <charlie-tca> We send the new people to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/GettingInvolved
[00:03] <charlie-tca> hajour, you need to talk with Pendulum and AlanBell about it. They aren't here tonight, though. It is late for them
[00:03] <hajour> yes i now.just was wondering ore that was possible
[00:04] <charlie-tca> I don't really know. I try to stay away from personas, since I also am the Xubuntu Project Leader
[00:05] <charlie-tca> I do testing, bug triage, and wiki writing, and then I do xubuntu too
[00:05] <hajour> i dont now what a Xubuntu project leader does
[00:05] <hajour> a ok
[00:05] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu is a distribution based on Ubuntu
[00:06] <charlie-tca> http://xubuntu.org
[00:06] <hajour> ok charlie-tca :) lots of work 
[00:06] <charlie-tca> I stay busy, yes
[00:08] <hajour> i just enjoying 2 weeks no helpers in my home
[00:09] <hajour> i got people almost everyday here ore i be in hospital for myself ore my children
[00:10] <hajour> but i do also nice things.
[00:10] <charlie-tca> It is nice to have no help once in a while. As long as help is there when you do need it.
[00:11] <hajour> i bake bread and make candy.pindabutter enz enz.i cut hair from my childeren.i make makeup for my daughters.because of there alergie
[00:12] <charlie-tca> That is a lot
[00:12] <hajour> and cloths if i got time
[00:12] <hajour> long ttime ago that i good paint
[00:13] <charlie-tca> You don't do paint no more/
[00:13] <charlie-tca> ?
[00:13] <hajour> almost not.my daughters need mutch help to learn things
[00:14] <charlie-tca> Yes, I would think so. But they have you to help them!
[00:14] <Cheri703> I'm planning what holiday treats to make
[00:15] <Cheri703> I am leaning toward making 2 different types of cookies to give out
[00:15] <hajour> example my oldest daughter have take 7 years to learn swimming with special help
[00:16] <hajour> :)) i make a lot of different things
[00:17] <hajour> italian,greek,french,dutch,spanish food
[00:17] <charlie-tca> I am leaning towards hoping someone gives me homemade cookies
[00:18] <hajour> iff i good i would give you.XD its only not possible online
[00:18] <charlie-tca> !cookie
[00:18] <ubot2> Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
[00:19] <Cheri703> charlie-tca: where are you located?
[00:19] <charlie-tca> Idaho, USA
[00:19] <Cheri703> ah, I'm in ohio
[00:19]  * Cheri703 might see about the logistics of shipping cookies ;)
[00:20] <Cheri703> are you allergic to any foods?
[00:20] <charlie-tca> nope
[00:20] <charlie-tca> but it is okay. I have neighbors and friends here. 
[00:20] <Cheri703> where in idaho? my brother was there for 2 years
[00:20] <hajour> XD here catch .just have thrown a cookie to you charlie-tca 
[00:21] <charlie-tca> Idaho Falls, eastern edge
[00:21] <Cheri703> ah, ok
[00:21] <Cheri703> my brother was in the boise area
[00:21] <charlie-tca> I moved from Boise to here in July
[00:22] <Cheri703> ah, ok
[00:22] <hajour> i have to make all kind off food because i am alergic from msg (monosodiumgludomaat)
[00:22] <Cheri703> I think I'd be more motivated to cook for myself if I had food allergies...it's too easy to just buy stuff
[00:22] <hajour> and it is in almost everything
[00:23] <charlie-tca> Agreed. Much easier
[00:23] <hajour> even in milk
[00:24] <hajour> not only me also 3 of my daughters are alergic for msg
[00:24] <charlie-tca> hajour, you have msg in milk there?
[00:24] <hajour> yes
[00:24] <charlie-tca> ouch
[00:24] <hajour> they put it in for to make longer good
[00:24] <Cheri703> hajour: I drink goat milk usually. right now I'm having to buy it, but as soon as one of the goats has its baby, I can get it again from some people I know. very fresh goat milk = wonderful
[00:24] <charlie-tca> They are not allowed to do that here, as far as I know
[00:25] <hajour> yes in europe it is approved E nummer
[00:26] <hajour> in netherland it is .:(
[00:28] <hajour> its in milk bakingbutter .bread,all kind of sauces,eten in blik,they even spray it out on meat for on sandwich
[00:29] <hajour> eten in blik=cannes food
[00:29] <hajour> wrong words copie sorry
[00:29] <hajour> and in a lot more product
[00:30] <hajour> to mutch to type here
[00:30] <charlie-tca> Korea was like that, too
[00:32] <hajour> they are now required to put it on the label on the product.but often they put on the label maisflower ore something else.
[00:33] <hajour> 2 weeks ago that was happend .i was very sick because i eat msg
[00:34] <hajour> korea not anymore?
[00:35] <hajour> Cheri703, here it is dificult to get goatmilk.even lot of anymals get food with msg in it here.
[00:35] <Cheri703> that's crazy
[00:35] <charlie-tca> I guess clear labels are a problem everywhere
[00:36] <hajour> yes i find that to
[00:37] <hajour> i hope that 1 day ther sal not anymore in food
[00:37] <hajour> no msg i mean
[00:37] <Cheri703> hajour: do you live in a city? or out in the country?
[00:39] <hajour> village but farmers have rule s they are not allowed officel to sell from there farm
[00:39] <hajour> all go s straight to the fabrics
[00:39] <Cheri703> well, I was going to say that maybe you guys could get an animal? goat or chickens? maybe have a garden?
[00:41] <hajour> i have not a great garden.but yes next year we go trye to make a garden.but we need earth,also cost money.
[00:41] <Cheri703> here you can get earth from people who are changing their own yards, often for free
[00:41] <hajour> here not
[00:42] <Cheri703> :(
[00:42] <hajour> we are in wellfare you call it?
[00:42] <Cheri703> yes
[00:43] <Cheri703> my husband receives money because he is unemployed
[00:43] <hajour> Undifined lost his job 6-3-2010
[00:44] <hajour> i cant work only in adjusted job.but there is a waiting list fore that from 4 till 7 years
[00:44] <Cheri703> :(
[00:45] <hajour> i heard that 1 month ago.i was very disapointed
[00:46] <hajour> i realy want to work.its not only the money.but it gives a good feeling to have job
[00:46] <hajour> work
[00:46] <Cheri703> yeah, I have a job, and I like the work, but the boss is...horrible
[00:47] <hajour> i am 18 years home now.its my dream to get work
[00:47] <Cheri703> could you sell some of those things you make?
[00:48] <hajour> i have not enough time with the kids to make enough.iff you make money.you have to give it back to the goverment again
[00:50] <hajour> people have say to me to trye to poetry.but i am not sure if it is good enough.
[00:50] <Cheri703> ah, understandable
[00:50] <Cheri703> here if you make under a certain amount from it, you don't have to pay taxes on it
[00:51] <hajour> here you may give it right away to the goverment
[00:51] <Cheri703> :(
[00:51] <hajour> to give out a poetry i mean
[00:52] <Cheri703> well, if you do try poetry, you could post it online
[00:53] <hajour> i have 165 poems
[00:53] <hajour> i have written it in 2 years
[00:53] <Cheri703> nice
[00:53] <hajour> but it need to look spelling control
[00:54] <charlie-tca> Cheri703, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/poems
[00:58] <hajour> i was succeed for the entrance exam for Graphic lyceum.2000 people thit exam 30 people where allowed.but i failed.the school was to big for me.i did not now yet that i had add then.
[00:58] <Cheri703> :(
[00:59] <hajour> i dont now witch level a school like that is called in your country
[01:00] <hajour> google dont now it either.XD google is not so mutch smarter then me .Xd
[01:01] <hajour> but  now i have this to work on. and i enjoy it a lot
[01:02] <Cheri703> :(
[01:02] <Cheri703> bah
[01:02] <Cheri703> it is always fun to find a new project! I just have trouble finishing the one before it :/
[01:02] <Cheri703> that was what I meant to type
[01:02] <Cheri703> I accidentally hit the up arrow and got the :(
[01:03] <hajour> first time i feel like i realy doing something good
[01:03] <hajour> to help i mean
[01:03] <hajour> np :)
[01:04] <Cheri703> I really enjoy helping people too. just last week I helped a guy who was trying to get ubuntu to do something, I was able to spend a bit of time and get it to do what he wanted, he was very excited, I like that :)
[01:04] <hajour> yes
[01:05] <hajour> and i hope we sal make a difference to a lot off people with this program
[01:07] <Cheri703> definitely
[01:07] <hajour> you now 1 off the sugestions already is going to put in 1 off the  program from ubuntu
[01:08] <hajour> UndiFineD,  nows wich one
[01:08] <hajour> i forgot the name from it
[01:08] <Cheri703> very cool!
[01:08] <hajour> yes i find that to.
[01:09] <hajour> so you see it slowly comes
[01:09] <hajour> it was 1 off the memory sugestions
[01:09] <Cheri703> nice
[01:10] <hajour> mmm i miss my english spellingcontrol here in chat
[01:10] <Cheri703> you're doing very well tonight!
[01:11] <hajour> after my pc was crashed it was again in dutch
[01:11] <hajour> mutch google
[01:11] <hajour> every time switch
[01:11] <Cheri703> did UndiFineD  show you the built in ubuntu dictionary?
[01:11] <Cheri703> I showed him that it has a dutch to english setting
[01:11] <Cheri703> might save the googling a bit
[01:12] <hajour> and i look every time in chat by your lines how to wright Xd
[01:13] <Cheri703> :)
[01:13] <hajour> UndiFineD,  was tired i hat 36 hours no sleep.he wanted first to fix my pc
[01:13] <Cheri703> ah
[01:14] <hajour> i nows how mutch it means to me
[01:14] <Cheri703> hajour, I think you mean "he" not, "I"
[01:14] <hajour> it have no use to say then to him he have to sleep
[01:15] <hajour> yes
[01:15] <Cheri703> (not trying to be rude, just trying to help :) )
[01:15] <hajour> yes i now :))
[01:15] <Cheri703> ok, just wanted to make sure :)
[01:15] <hajour> its ok. no worry
[01:17] <hajour> i just was early in day a little emotional.because in 1 off the ubuntu chats someone called me stupid.just have handle it off with a joke.but ..
[01:17] <Cheri703> :( yeah, I hate that
[01:18] <hajour> it give s a bad feeling
[01:18] <Cheri703> many of the rooms are filled with jerks (rude people), which is sad because it's contrary (not following) the whole point of ubuntu
[01:18] <Cheri703> is it helpful if I give a simpler version of a word after it? like above? I don't know if that helps at all
[01:18] <hajour> yes thanks
[01:19] <charlie-tca> hajour, You can report that when it happens to #ubuntu-ops
[01:19] <Cheri703> ok, I thought it might be helpful, but if you have to look up both, then it's probably not!
[01:19] <charlie-tca> But not too late after it happens
[01:20] <hajour> you now i have no low ig.but i feel offten like i am stupid.
[01:21] <hajour> i dont no annymore witch chat and who it was charlie-tca .chat history is gone to after the crash
[01:21] <Cheri703> well, I have to head out. I'll be back online in a few hours. Have a good night. nice talking to you charlie-tca and hajour :)
[01:22] <charlie-tca> Yes, unfortunately. It needs to be reported right away
[01:22] <charlie-tca> good night, Cheri703 
[01:22] <Cheri703> (head out = leave) :)
[01:22] <charlie-tca> or, rather, good-bye
[01:22] <hajour> sleep well Cheri703  and thanks for the nice talking
[01:23] <hajour> charlie-tca, i mostly not give someone to report.i am to soft i think
[01:24] <charlie-tca> I know. Most of us are like that.
[01:25] <charlie-tca> We get frustrated, but do not speak up like we should. 
[01:25] <hajour> yes.
[01:25] <hajour> UndiFineD, just wake up
[01:25] <charlie-tca> I remember after it is too late, most of the time
[01:27] <hajour> yes me to.also we have a nice team here i find
[01:27] <hajour> with nice people
[01:28] <hajour> realy i find it very nice here
[01:29] <hajour> are you tired charlie-tca ?
[01:33] <hajour> charlie-tca, just remember.we can look in the mirror and watch with no shame
[02:02] <charlie-tca> that's right
[02:02] <charlie-tca> sorry.
[02:03] <charlie-tca> Yes, I am very tired tonight
[02:06] <charlie-tca> hajour, you can tell I get tired when I start going to long without answering
[02:06] <hajour> just already noticed that charlie-tca 
[02:07] <hajour> mayby better to sleep?
[02:07] <charlie-tca> I am losing words too, now.
[02:07] <charlie-tca> No, just need to relax, I guess
[02:08] <hajour> :) dont now how late it is there in your country
[02:08] <charlie-tca> It is only 7:00 PM
[02:08] <hajour> here it is 3.15 hours night
[02:13] <hajour> going to take my last sigaret.and then going to have some sleep
[02:15] <charlie-tca> That is a good idea. It has been very nice talking with you.
[02:15] <hajour> i find it also nice talking to you charlie-tca 
[02:18] <hajour> i just was thinking about a program for people wo cant talk and type.mind control program.
[02:19] <UndiFineD> emotiv control of dasher would be great
[02:28] <hajour> going to sleep .good night all
[04:04] <TheMuso> Meego is doomed, or at least according to this article: http://www.techeye.net/software/nokias-meego-is-doomed
[04:28] <cprofitt> charlie-tca: 
[04:28] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/683465
[04:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683465 in launchpad "Signing the CoC is a pain (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[04:28] <cprofitt> would love your input on that charlie-tca 
[04:30] <Cheri703> I agree that it's difficult...I had quite a few issues, even following a tutorial :/
[04:30] <Cheri703> and I'm not dyslexic and I'm reasonably able to figure out stuff on the computer
[04:31] <cprofitt> Cheri703: if you want mark that it affects you too
[04:31] <cprofitt> not sure what can be technically done, but it should be considered
[04:31] <cprofitt> I gotta log and get some sleep, but wanted to let people know that the issue had been reported
[04:32] <Cheri703> at the very least, super simplify the process. and the tutorial is missing some info (at least as far as I could figure out) :/
[04:32] <cprofitt> night all
[04:32] <Cheri703> marked
[04:32] <UndiFineD> :)
[04:32] <UndiFineD> thanks Cheri703 
[04:33] <Cheri703> making a gui way of doing it would be AWESOME
[04:33]  * Cheri703 hearts gui
[04:33] <Cheri703> even without the other features :/
[04:35] <UndiFineD> even if they do not want make it too easy, eassier and accessible would be a win
[04:35] <Cheri703> yeah
[04:38] <charlie-tca> I don't really know what it is like today. I signed it in 2006, when it took me three days just to download Ubuntu
[04:39] <Cheri703> it's...complicated
[04:39] <charlie-tca> Compared to the week to get my network connection working, the CoC signing was pretty easy then.
[04:39] <Cheri703> I had people helping me and I ran into an issue (figuring out how to actually get the final version to upload)
[04:41] <charlie-tca> I believe getting the gpg key is complicated. that might be a documentation issue, though. Maybe we need to look at correcting the documentation?
[04:43] <Cheri703> charlie-tca: is there a way to make a gui way of generating a gpg key and using it to sign documents? people who have trouble with cli are pretty much shut out of the process
[04:44] <charlie-tca> Use seahorse, it is a gui and should be able to generate the keys
[04:45] <Cheri703> ok, but is that process listed anywhere? I'm talking about a program that'd have these functions: generate key, store key, import document, display/create final version for saving/pasting into page to upload (code of conduct and other documents)
[04:46] <charlie-tca> I don't how much of that it can do. Documentation is not good for all of it. but, like I said, I did all that in 2006. After I finally got all the network stuff together (from 3 or 4 different websites), everything was easy.
[04:47] <Cheri703> well, I'm saying maybe someone could make something to do that
[04:48] <UndiFineD> the current System -> Preferences -> Passwords and keys thing does not generate a good key
[04:48] <charlie-tca> I don't think that is seahorse. It is something else
[04:48] <charlie-tca> It would be a good candidate for a video howto
[12:06] <UndiFineD> charlie-tca, seahorse == System -> Preferences -> Passwords and keys
[12:09] <hajour> hai all
[12:26] <JanC> UndiFineD: that should be able to generate a good key, otherwise that's a bug
[12:26] <UndiFineD> already filed it: bug  683604
[12:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 683604 in seahorse (Ubuntu) "generated personal gpg key fingerprints are not accepted by launchpad (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683604
[12:35] <JanC> UndiFineD: it is normal that it takes a long time to generate a key pair, remember that the faster it is to generate those, the more plausible a brute force attack becomes (for somebody with a supercomputer cluster or a botnet or such at their disposal)
[12:36] <UndiFineD> then I think it is not suitable for the CoC
[12:36] <JanC> why not?  waiting doesn't cost anything
[12:37] <JanC> of course the UI should warn about the long time
[12:38] <UndiFineD> ok, if this was a key for continues network transfers to be altered weekly, 10 minutes to generate one is fine, but this is just the CoC, used one time only
[12:38] <JanC> you can use it for other things too, if you want  ;)
[12:39] <UndiFineD> really ? would you ? I would use a diffirent gpg key for communication with other people
[12:39] <JanC> why?
[12:40] <JanC> it's actually better is both keys are the same
[12:40] <JanC> at least then people can be sure you are the same person as you  ;)
[12:42] <JanC> UndiFineD: did you export the key to the keyserver after generating it?  (in seahorse)
[12:42] <UndiFineD> yes
[12:43] <UndiFineD> the signing is done
[12:43] <JanC> but you did it from the commandline I think?
[12:43] <UndiFineD> yep
[12:44] <JanC> maybe it's better if you explain what exactly you did in the GUI and what on the commandline, and where it went wrong
[12:52] <UndiFineD> done
[13:01] <hajour> what they mean by challenge by the personas?
[13:01] <charlie-tca> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/01/0131240/Aussie-government-Gives-PDF-the-Thunbs-Down
[13:02] <JanC> hm, that's only an issue with some PDF documents of course
[13:03] <charlie-tca> If it happens to be a document you really need, it is vital
[13:03] <charlie-tca> Personally, it becomes a major issue when I can't read the one document I need
[13:03] <JanC> well, of course, but making PDF documents better should also be looked into
[13:04] <JanC> I know the Scribus people are looking into that, but it's not always easy to do
[13:06] <hajour> do they mean challenge with ubuntu ore personal?
[13:06]  * hajour busy with the personas
[13:07] <charlie-tca> things like signing the CoC, I think
[13:07] <charlie-tca> also things you want to use the computer for. How easy is it to write, use firefox, use the music player.
[13:08] <UndiFineD> so typical ubuntu stuffs
[13:09] <JanC> your challenges to use Ubuntu, including related resources like the websites
[13:09] <JanC> I think...
[13:10] <hajour> a ok.
[13:30] <charlie-tca> UndiFineD, thanks for the note about seahorse
[13:31] <UndiFineD> :)
[13:32] <JanC> UndiFineD: I think your problem was that you didn't publish the OpenPGP key to the keyserver
[13:34] <UndiFineD> which is gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com (pubic keypart) ?
[13:35] <JanC> yes, or in the GUI select the key and then Remote -> Synchronize or something like that
[13:36] <UndiFineD> that part was not even described on LP i think
[13:37] <JanC> maybe check that again and add that info to the bug you filed against LP
[13:37] <JanC> so that they know why it was so difficult to sign
[13:42] <UndiFineD> then I would have to create another LP user ..
[13:45] <charlie-tca> That is one of the issues involved. Once you have done it, you can not go back and do it again to see where things went wrong.
[13:47] <hajour> AlanBell, can you explain ore no someone who can some off the things they mean by personalas?
[13:48] <hajour> only need for 1.after that i can look back to the 1 wo is ready
[13:49] <hajour> already have work at a copple of the personas
[13:51] <hajour> faisal is almost ready i think
[14:44] <hajour> need to go .have to do other things now.till later all
[15:39] <hajour> good not help it.just have worked further on faisal persona.
[15:40] <hajour> can someone look ore it is good?i want to use faisal for exsample how to make the others
[15:56] <UndiFineD> duanedesign, I think your clicompanion should be on that software list too, for people with memory issues
[16:20] <hajour> i have to go cooking.i can t read back in chat what is say when i was gone.my pc go s automatic out.after a little while.
[16:23] <JanC> you can disable that
[16:26] <hajour> how can i do that JanC ?
[16:27] <JanC> well, I assume it's a setting in Systeem -> Voorkeuren -> Energiebeheer doing this
[16:28] <hajour> its english
[16:33] <JanC> System -> Preferences -> something with "power" or "energy" in the name?  ☺
[16:41] <hajour> ok i sal look thanks JanC 
[16:54] <hajour> i have make changes in the faisal persona  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/faisal
[16:55] <hajour> charlie-tca,  chanes are in http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/faisal
[16:55] <hajour> i was forgot to put a name in
[16:58] <charlie-tca> not me... AlanBell or Pendulum ^ ^ ^
[17:03] <hajour> ok :)
[18:48] <hajour> i am bored . i cant go further with the persona.because i need more information .true example from some parts .
[18:50] <hajour> i have spelling English control now.
[18:51] <hajour> English spelling control i mean 
[19:05] <hajour> and then suddenly the electricity was going off
[19:07] <hajour> hai jono
[19:09] <hajour> pendulum do you got time to look ore the changes i have make by the persona faisal are good?
[19:10] <hajour> Pendulum,  ore AlanBell  i mean
[19:55] <hajour> dutchie, what means whatsits by the deaf john persona?
[19:56] <hajour> i am working on the persona john now
[19:57] <dutchie> hajour: it doesn't mean anything, i don't know the dutch equivalent
[19:58] <hajour> ok is that a made name from a fantasie company?
[20:59] <`marianne`> hiya
[21:36] <hajour> :) john persona is almost ready
[21:37] <hajour> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/john
[21:38] <hajour> Pendulum, do you a moment?
[21:38] <hajour> got a moment i meant
[21:40] <AlanBell> hi hajour 
[21:40] <hajour> hai AlanBell 
[21:41] <hajour> AlanBell,  do you want to check my work on the personas faisal and john
[21:41] <AlanBell> just looking at it now
[21:41] <hajour> ok thank you AlanBell 
[21:43] <hajour> i need a exsample for a challenge.if i have that i can make it further
[21:45] <hajour> i now not enough from the handicap deaf .i have to search for more information about that
[21:46] <AlanBell> do you have the survey results?
[21:46] <UndiFineD> yes, I gave her a coppy AlanBell 
[21:47] <AlanBell> great
[21:47] <UndiFineD> -p
[21:47] <AlanBell> we need to base some bits on what we found out from the survey because we know that is realistic
[21:48] <hajour> AlanBell, from faisal i now that out personal experience
[21:49] <hajour> i got that myself
[21:49] <hajour> so everthing by faisal is correct
[21:50] <AlanBell> great
[21:50] <AlanBell> well not great, but hey you know what I mean
[21:52] <hajour> and the result from more progressive i now because my mother have that
[21:53] <hajour> yes thats why i cant writhe more yet by john
[21:53] <hajour> i now not yet enough from deaf
[21:55] <hajour> but i was playing with the idea to go for a school for deaf people .to ask what the personal experience are from them with PC use
[21:55] <hajour> np AlanBell 
[21:56] <hajour> i now what you meant :)
[22:00] <hajour> AlanBell,  i have to say something important
[22:02] <hajour> i have made short lines because of people with dyslectic .because some of your team who have to work it out got dyslectic to 
[22:03] <AlanBell> ah, ok
[22:03] <AlanBell> I wondered what the short lines were for
[22:04] <hajour> yes i was looking what you was doing. and i was thinking nooo
[22:05] <hajour> :))
[22:05] <hajour> glad you have read chat
[22:06] <hajour> i just have to make it short lines again
[22:08] <hajour> AlanBell, how can we prevent that others make it long lines again?
[22:14] <hajour> i maybe not say much in some chats .but I do watch on what is being said.Thats why i know that some of the team who need to work it out got dyslectic
[22:18] <AlanBell> well the pad is there for the rough drafting of it
[22:18] <AlanBell> I am going to take that and make a pretty PDF page, and also put it on the wiki
[22:18] <AlanBell> and blog it
[22:19] <AlanBell> so it is going to end up here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Faisal
[22:19] <hajour> so you think it is finished enough 
[22:20] <AlanBell> it is getting close
[22:21] <AlanBell> don't worry about editing the wiki page, just stick to the etherpad for the moment
[22:21] <hajour> but AlanBell  if you look at faisal.you sal see it are not short lines anymore
[22:21] <AlanBell> when we have the text really good I will format it on the wiki, I was just trying it out
[22:21] <hajour> ok:)
[22:22] <hajour> i just wanted to make easyer for the people who have to work it out .
[22:22] <AlanBell> yes, that is great
[22:22] <AlanBell> but the PDF file will be a bit different, it has to look very similar to the internal Canonical documents
[22:23] <hajour> thats why i have used short lines
[22:23] <hajour> mm
[22:23] <AlanBell> I want them to have the same status as the existing personas they use
[22:24] <hajour> AlanBell, accessibility is for making it easyer yes?
[22:24] <AlanBell> but the wiki version can be short simple lines
[22:24] <Pendulum> also, unfortunately line length things are one of the places where you get a lot of conflict between people with different disabilities
[22:24] <hajour> why not start with do that for the group who work on it
[22:25] <AlanBell> ah, because it would be a failure if only this group read them
[22:25] <hajour> then you need a spoken version to :P
[22:25] <AlanBell> the point of this is to educate a much wider audience about accessibility needs
[22:25] <AlanBell> good point, a podcast or something would be a great thing to do with them
[22:26] <AlanBell> hi Pendulum, how are things with you?
[22:26] <hajour> hai Pendulum 
[22:26] <hajour> hope you feeling better then last time
[22:29] <hajour> but AlanBell  how i have written.is how it Sal be easier to read for people with dislectia,add,adhd,autism.
[22:30] <hajour> Thats why it was realy hard to read the guide from chat,mail,enz here on ubuntu
[22:31] <hajour> i needed UndiFineD  to read it at loud for me
[22:31] <hajour> spoken dont now how to say it
[22:32] <AlanBell> yes, and it is really interesting to see what you have done with it
[22:33] <AlanBell> I certainly think we should make a point of that on the Henrietta persona
[22:34] <hajour> ii sal look to the henrietta person
[22:35] <hajour> i got a lot of suggestions and solutions for the henrietta person.already in my subpage from my wiki profile
[22:36] <hajour> i almost not dare to say it.but i have the same problem like henrietta
[22:38] <hajour> addicted to tomboy
[22:38] <hajour> XD
[22:39] <hajour> and i got UndiFineD 
[22:41] <hajour> hai Cheri703 
[22:41] <Cheri703> hi
[22:43] <hajour> AlanBell, maybe it is a idea to note them on the link to the wiki from that persona in the pdf for the team who have to work it out.
[22:44] <AlanBell> yes, we can certainly do that
[22:44] <hajour> faisal is ready AlanBell  says
[22:44] <AlanBell> not quite ready
[22:44] <AlanBell> but he will be by the time Natty Alpha1 comes out
[22:44] <UndiFineD> that is only a few hours away
[22:45] <charlie-tca> well, maybe
[22:45] <AlanBell> is it?
[22:45] <charlie-tca> I broke it bad again
[22:45] <hajour> i was ask some things about the persona.for a example by what there was ment.but nobody good help me
[22:45] <charlie-tca> AlanBell, supposed to be out tomorrow
[22:45] <AlanBell> oh, well might be a bit late then :)
[22:46] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu desktop testing is on hold until they fix the images.
[22:47] <hajour> they wanted but they don t no it
[22:49] <hajour> i needed a example for some parts
[22:50] <hajour> if i hat that i hat finis at least 1 persona complete
[22:52] <hajour> example like how it stands by personas
[22:57] <hajour> AlanBell, by faisal.how it looks now.it is not good for people with dislectia,adhd,add,autism.because you have put the short lines together 
[22:59] <hajour> i am not want to hurt your feelings.i know from the pdf enz.but on wiki its better for the short line version
[23:00] <hajour> am i allowed to make it with short lines again for the wiki paige?
[23:02] <Pendulum> I think having 2 versions is not a bad idea because, for example, I actually don't do as well with a lot of short lines as I do with paragraphs
[23:02] <Pendulum> (because my brain gets overwhelmed and thinks it's too long to read if it looks like there are a lot of lines)
[23:04] <Pendulum> but the version for developers really should be like the current design personas
[23:05] <hajour> ok Pendulum thats why AlanBell put the lines together in the pdf .i have say my idea to make a link in it to the wiki page for theshort line version
[23:06] <hajour> Pendulum, you know that in the group who have to work it out also people are with dislectie?and there are working a lot of people in the it who have a kind of autism.add.adhd?
[23:08] <JanC> those people don't necessarily have dyslexia
[23:08] <Pendulum> hajour: to be honest, I know a few people in open source with various things such as autism, adhd, etc. but not everyone needs the short lines and I've not had many people comment on it. 
[23:08] <Pendulum> sorry, I need to disappear again (I am quite literally falling apart today complete with a sprained ankle from trying to walk 2 steps)
[23:09] <hajour> JanC, someone wo have not dislectia but have adhd ore add ore autism cant read it also dificult if it are not long lines
[23:09] <charlie-tca> Pendulum, I would think you know to take care of yourself, please.
[23:09] <hajour> mostly they dont say it
[23:09] <charlie-tca> I hate when I start falling apart, every time I do it.
[23:10] <hajour> but Pendulum  you health is more important
[23:11] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: well the good news is that I already have about 3 different levels of ankle brace ;-) 
[23:11] <charlie-tca> yup! that always helps
[23:12]  * AlanBell hugs Pendulum 
[23:12] <charlie-tca> We need you
[23:12] <AlanBell> hajour: don't edit the wiki page for the moment, not because I don't want short lines there, but because I intend to delete it all and copy it across from the etherpad again
[23:13] <AlanBell> I don't want you to go through the wiki making short lines and then me to go mess it up afterwards!
[23:13] <UndiFineD> can we keep it as an example ?
[23:14] <AlanBell> the short lines are fine, I just want to keep the content editing on the etherpad for the moment
[23:15] <hajour> i know a lot of people with that kind of handicaps.and most of the people choose not to say it to there boss.because they are afraid to loose there job.ore that they not may work anymore to some projects.
[23:15] <AlanBell> yes, that is important
[23:16] <AlanBell> what we have to get across to developers is that if Ubuntu is more accessible then Faisal can keep his job for longer
[23:16] <AlanBell> and Faisal is a really nice chap and we should help him out
[23:16] <hajour> because there are stil many prejudices about that kind of handicaps
[23:19] <hajour> i loved to wrk on the faisal persona because he was come close with a few things tto my experience
[23:19] <hajour> work i mean
[23:20] <AlanBell> that is great, we want them realistic
[23:20] <AlanBell> but not recognisable, they are fictional
[23:20] <hajour> recognisable=?
[23:21] <hajour> UndiFineD,  have already told what that meant 
[23:21] <AlanBell> they are not supposed to be based on anyone we know
[23:22] <hajour> cant help it i have a creaky body :)
[23:24] <hajour> i trye to see things always with a sense of humor.i think thats my power to.that i always hold on and not fast give up
[23:24] <AlanBell> :)
[23:25] <hajour> life is tuf enough.
[23:25] <hajour> why not make it a bit lighter
[23:25] <AlanBell> so it is totally fine to put some of your experiences into faisal, he is a man teaching in india, quite clearly not you!
[23:26] <hajour> yes. so far i now i am still a women.
[23:26] <AlanBell> but I wouldn't turn him into a woman from the Netherlands
[23:26] <AlanBell> presume you are from Holland?
[23:27] <hajour> not me plz i am much to difficult to make a persona from.dive s unther the table
[23:27] <hajour> yes i am from holland
[23:27] <AlanBell> :)
[23:28] <hajour> oops medicine time else i go writhe like a druk.brb
[23:28] <hajour> drunk i mean.already starting
[23:29] <hajour> beginning i mean
[23:32] <hajour> if you want ask me something difficult then wait 10 minits.then medicine sal be working again.
[23:32] <hajour> was to late,forgot
[23:41] <hajour> i have to look better at the time
[23:46] <hajour> AlanBell, i Sal working tomorrow further on the personas
[23:47] <hajour> hai JanC 
[23:49] <AlanBell> night hajour 
[23:50] <hajour> the short lines was not only meant for people with dyslectic.for if you had misunderstand me
[23:52] <hajour> .:)
[23:53] <hajour> o sleep well AlanBell 
[23:56] <hajour> what means Launchpad teams exactly?