[00:00] Pendulum and AlanBell are personas, myself, Pendulum are wiki, TheMuso is development, and the then it gets hard to decide [00:01] for new people it might be useful [00:01] true [00:02] charlie-tca, can we make self also personas? [00:02] We send the new people to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/GettingInvolved [00:03] hajour, you need to talk with Pendulum and AlanBell about it. They aren't here tonight, though. It is late for them [00:03] yes i now.just was wondering ore that was possible [00:04] I don't really know. I try to stay away from personas, since I also am the Xubuntu Project Leader [00:05] I do testing, bug triage, and wiki writing, and then I do xubuntu too [00:05] i dont now what a Xubuntu project leader does [00:05] a ok [00:05] Xubuntu is a distribution based on Ubuntu [00:06] http://xubuntu.org [00:06] ok charlie-tca :) lots of work [00:06] I stay busy, yes [00:08] i just enjoying 2 weeks no helpers in my home [00:09] i got people almost everyday here ore i be in hospital for myself ore my children [00:10] but i do also nice things. [00:10] It is nice to have no help once in a while. As long as help is there when you do need it. [00:11] i bake bread and make candy.pindabutter enz enz.i cut hair from my childeren.i make makeup for my daughters.because of there alergie [00:12] That is a lot [00:12] and cloths if i got time [00:12] long ttime ago that i good paint [00:13] You don't do paint no more/ [00:13] ? [00:13] almost not.my daughters need mutch help to learn things [00:14] Yes, I would think so. But they have you to help them! [00:14] I'm planning what holiday treats to make [00:15] I am leaning toward making 2 different types of cookies to give out [00:15] example my oldest daughter have take 7 years to learn swimming with special help [00:16] :)) i make a lot of different things [00:17] italian,greek,french,dutch,spanish food [00:17] I am leaning towards hoping someone gives me homemade cookies [00:18] iff i good i would give you.XD its only not possible online [00:18] !cookie [00:18] Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie! [00:19] charlie-tca: where are you located? [00:19] Idaho, USA [00:19] ah, I'm in ohio [00:19] * Cheri703 might see about the logistics of shipping cookies ;) [00:20] are you allergic to any foods? [00:20] nope [00:20] but it is okay. I have neighbors and friends here. [00:20] where in idaho? my brother was there for 2 years [00:20] XD here catch .just have thrown a cookie to you charlie-tca [00:21] Idaho Falls, eastern edge [00:21] ah, ok [00:21] my brother was in the boise area [00:21] I moved from Boise to here in July [00:22] ah, ok [00:22] i have to make all kind off food because i am alergic from msg (monosodiumgludomaat) [00:22] I think I'd be more motivated to cook for myself if I had food allergies...it's too easy to just buy stuff [00:22] and it is in almost everything [00:23] Agreed. Much easier [00:23] even in milk [00:24] not only me also 3 of my daughters are alergic for msg [00:24] hajour, you have msg in milk there? [00:24] yes [00:24] ouch [00:24] they put it in for to make longer good [00:24] hajour: I drink goat milk usually. right now I'm having to buy it, but as soon as one of the goats has its baby, I can get it again from some people I know. very fresh goat milk = wonderful [00:24] They are not allowed to do that here, as far as I know [00:25] yes in europe it is approved E nummer [00:26] in netherland it is .:( [00:28] its in milk bakingbutter .bread,all kind of sauces,eten in blik,they even spray it out on meat for on sandwich [00:29] eten in blik=cannes food [00:29] wrong words copie sorry [00:29] and in a lot more product [00:30] to mutch to type here [00:30] Korea was like that, too [00:32] they are now required to put it on the label on the product.but often they put on the label maisflower ore something else. [00:33] 2 weeks ago that was happend .i was very sick because i eat msg [00:34] korea not anymore? [00:35] Cheri703, here it is dificult to get goatmilk.even lot of anymals get food with msg in it here. [00:35] that's crazy [00:35] I guess clear labels are a problem everywhere [00:36] yes i find that to [00:37] i hope that 1 day ther sal not anymore in food [00:37] no msg i mean [00:37] hajour: do you live in a city? or out in the country? [00:39] village but farmers have rule s they are not allowed officel to sell from there farm [00:39] all go s straight to the fabrics [00:39] well, I was going to say that maybe you guys could get an animal? goat or chickens? maybe have a garden? [00:41] i have not a great garden.but yes next year we go trye to make a garden.but we need earth,also cost money. [00:41] here you can get earth from people who are changing their own yards, often for free [00:41] here not [00:42] :( [00:42] we are in wellfare you call it? [00:42] yes [00:43] my husband receives money because he is unemployed [00:43] Undifined lost his job 6-3-2010 [00:44] i cant work only in adjusted job.but there is a waiting list fore that from 4 till 7 years [00:44] :( [00:45] i heard that 1 month ago.i was very disapointed [00:46] i realy want to work.its not only the money.but it gives a good feeling to have job [00:46] work [00:46] yeah, I have a job, and I like the work, but the boss is...horrible [00:47] i am 18 years home now.its my dream to get work [00:47] could you sell some of those things you make? [00:48] i have not enough time with the kids to make enough.iff you make money.you have to give it back to the goverment again [00:50] people have say to me to trye to poetry.but i am not sure if it is good enough. [00:50] ah, understandable [00:50] here if you make under a certain amount from it, you don't have to pay taxes on it [00:51] here you may give it right away to the goverment [00:51] :( [00:51] to give out a poetry i mean [00:52] well, if you do try poetry, you could post it online [00:53] i have 165 poems [00:53] i have written it in 2 years [00:53] nice [00:53] but it need to look spelling control [00:54] Cheri703, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/poems [00:58] i was succeed for the entrance exam for Graphic lyceum.2000 people thit exam 30 people where allowed.but i failed.the school was to big for me.i did not now yet that i had add then. [00:58] :( [00:59] i dont now witch level a school like that is called in your country [01:00] google dont now it either.XD google is not so mutch smarter then me .Xd [01:01] but now i have this to work on. and i enjoy it a lot [01:02] :( [01:02] bah [01:02] it is always fun to find a new project! I just have trouble finishing the one before it :/ [01:02] that was what I meant to type [01:02] I accidentally hit the up arrow and got the :( [01:03] first time i feel like i realy doing something good [01:03] to help i mean [01:03] np :) [01:04] I really enjoy helping people too. just last week I helped a guy who was trying to get ubuntu to do something, I was able to spend a bit of time and get it to do what he wanted, he was very excited, I like that :) [01:04] yes [01:05] and i hope we sal make a difference to a lot off people with this program [01:07] definitely [01:07] you now 1 off the sugestions already is going to put in 1 off the program from ubuntu [01:08] UndiFineD, nows wich one [01:08] i forgot the name from it [01:08] very cool! [01:08] yes i find that to. [01:09] so you see it slowly comes [01:09] it was 1 off the memory sugestions [01:09] nice [01:10] mmm i miss my english spellingcontrol here in chat [01:10] you're doing very well tonight! [01:11] after my pc was crashed it was again in dutch [01:11] mutch google [01:11] every time switch [01:11] did UndiFineD show you the built in ubuntu dictionary? [01:11] I showed him that it has a dutch to english setting [01:11] might save the googling a bit [01:12] and i look every time in chat by your lines how to wright Xd [01:13] :) [01:13] UndiFineD, was tired i hat 36 hours no sleep.he wanted first to fix my pc [01:13] ah [01:14] i nows how mutch it means to me [01:14] hajour, I think you mean "he" not, "I" [01:14] it have no use to say then to him he have to sleep [01:15] yes [01:15] (not trying to be rude, just trying to help :) ) [01:15] yes i now :)) [01:15] ok, just wanted to make sure :) [01:15] its ok. no worry [01:17] i just was early in day a little emotional.because in 1 off the ubuntu chats someone called me stupid.just have handle it off with a joke.but .. [01:17] :( yeah, I hate that [01:18] it give s a bad feeling [01:18] many of the rooms are filled with jerks (rude people), which is sad because it's contrary (not following) the whole point of ubuntu [01:18] is it helpful if I give a simpler version of a word after it? like above? I don't know if that helps at all [01:18] yes thanks [01:19] hajour, You can report that when it happens to #ubuntu-ops [01:19] ok, I thought it might be helpful, but if you have to look up both, then it's probably not! [01:19] But not too late after it happens [01:20] you now i have no low ig.but i feel offten like i am stupid. [01:21] i dont no annymore witch chat and who it was charlie-tca .chat history is gone to after the crash [01:21] well, I have to head out. I'll be back online in a few hours. Have a good night. nice talking to you charlie-tca and hajour :) [01:22] Yes, unfortunately. It needs to be reported right away [01:22] good night, Cheri703 [01:22] (head out = leave) :) [01:22] or, rather, good-bye [01:22] sleep well Cheri703 and thanks for the nice talking [01:23] charlie-tca, i mostly not give someone to report.i am to soft i think [01:24] I know. Most of us are like that. [01:25] We get frustrated, but do not speak up like we should. [01:25] yes. [01:25] UndiFineD, just wake up [01:25] I remember after it is too late, most of the time [01:27] yes me to.also we have a nice team here i find [01:27] with nice people [01:28] realy i find it very nice here [01:29] are you tired charlie-tca ? [01:33] charlie-tca, just remember.we can look in the mirror and watch with no shame [02:02] that's right [02:02] sorry. [02:03] Yes, I am very tired tonight [02:06] hajour, you can tell I get tired when I start going to long without answering [02:06] just already noticed that charlie-tca [02:07] mayby better to sleep? [02:07] I am losing words too, now. [02:07] No, just need to relax, I guess [02:08] :) dont now how late it is there in your country [02:08] It is only 7:00 PM [02:08] here it is 3.15 hours night [02:13] going to take my last sigaret.and then going to have some sleep [02:15] That is a good idea. It has been very nice talking with you. [02:15] i find it also nice talking to you charlie-tca [02:18] i just was thinking about a program for people wo cant talk and type.mind control program. [02:19] emotiv control of dasher would be great [02:28] going to sleep .good night all [04:04] Meego is doomed, or at least according to this article: http://www.techeye.net/software/nokias-meego-is-doomed [04:28] charlie-tca: [04:28] https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/683465 [04:28] Launchpad bug 683465 in launchpad "Signing the CoC is a pain (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] [04:28] would love your input on that charlie-tca [04:30] I agree that it's difficult...I had quite a few issues, even following a tutorial :/ [04:30] and I'm not dyslexic and I'm reasonably able to figure out stuff on the computer [04:31] Cheri703: if you want mark that it affects you too [04:31] not sure what can be technically done, but it should be considered [04:31] I gotta log and get some sleep, but wanted to let people know that the issue had been reported [04:32] at the very least, super simplify the process. and the tutorial is missing some info (at least as far as I could figure out) :/ [04:32] night all [04:32] marked [04:32] :) [04:32] thanks Cheri703 [04:33] making a gui way of doing it would be AWESOME [04:33] * Cheri703 hearts gui [04:33] even without the other features :/ [04:35] even if they do not want make it too easy, eassier and accessible would be a win [04:35] yeah [04:38] I don't really know what it is like today. I signed it in 2006, when it took me three days just to download Ubuntu [04:39] it's...complicated [04:39] Compared to the week to get my network connection working, the CoC signing was pretty easy then. [04:39] I had people helping me and I ran into an issue (figuring out how to actually get the final version to upload) [04:41] I believe getting the gpg key is complicated. that might be a documentation issue, though. Maybe we need to look at correcting the documentation? [04:43] charlie-tca: is there a way to make a gui way of generating a gpg key and using it to sign documents? people who have trouble with cli are pretty much shut out of the process [04:44] Use seahorse, it is a gui and should be able to generate the keys [04:45] ok, but is that process listed anywhere? I'm talking about a program that'd have these functions: generate key, store key, import document, display/create final version for saving/pasting into page to upload (code of conduct and other documents) [04:46] I don't how much of that it can do. Documentation is not good for all of it. but, like I said, I did all that in 2006. After I finally got all the network stuff together (from 3 or 4 different websites), everything was easy. [04:47] well, I'm saying maybe someone could make something to do that [04:48] the current System -> Preferences -> Passwords and keys thing does not generate a good key [04:48] I don't think that is seahorse. It is something else [04:48] It would be a good candidate for a video howto [12:06] charlie-tca, seahorse == System -> Preferences -> Passwords and keys [12:09] hai all [12:26] UndiFineD: that should be able to generate a good key, otherwise that's a bug [12:26] already filed it: bug 683604 [12:26] Launchpad bug 683604 in seahorse (Ubuntu) "generated personal gpg key fingerprints are not accepted by launchpad (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683604 [12:35] UndiFineD: it is normal that it takes a long time to generate a key pair, remember that the faster it is to generate those, the more plausible a brute force attack becomes (for somebody with a supercomputer cluster or a botnet or such at their disposal) [12:36] then I think it is not suitable for the CoC [12:36] why not? waiting doesn't cost anything [12:37] of course the UI should warn about the long time [12:38] ok, if this was a key for continues network transfers to be altered weekly, 10 minutes to generate one is fine, but this is just the CoC, used one time only [12:38] you can use it for other things too, if you want ;) [12:39] really ? would you ? I would use a diffirent gpg key for communication with other people [12:39] why? [12:40] it's actually better is both keys are the same [12:40] at least then people can be sure you are the same person as you ;) [12:42] UndiFineD: did you export the key to the keyserver after generating it? (in seahorse) [12:42] yes [12:43] the signing is done [12:43] but you did it from the commandline I think? [12:43] yep [12:44] maybe it's better if you explain what exactly you did in the GUI and what on the commandline, and where it went wrong [12:52] done [13:01] what they mean by challenge by the personas? [13:01] http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/01/0131240/Aussie-government-Gives-PDF-the-Thunbs-Down [13:02] hm, that's only an issue with some PDF documents of course [13:03] If it happens to be a document you really need, it is vital [13:03] Personally, it becomes a major issue when I can't read the one document I need [13:03] well, of course, but making PDF documents better should also be looked into [13:04] I know the Scribus people are looking into that, but it's not always easy to do [13:06] do they mean challenge with ubuntu ore personal? [13:06] * hajour busy with the personas [13:07] things like signing the CoC, I think [13:07] also things you want to use the computer for. How easy is it to write, use firefox, use the music player. [13:08] so typical ubuntu stuffs [13:09] your challenges to use Ubuntu, including related resources like the websites [13:09] I think... [13:10] a ok. [13:30] UndiFineD, thanks for the note about seahorse [13:31] :) [13:32] UndiFineD: I think your problem was that you didn't publish the OpenPGP key to the keyserver [13:34] which is gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com (pubic keypart) ? [13:35] yes, or in the GUI select the key and then Remote -> Synchronize or something like that [13:36] that part was not even described on LP i think [13:37] maybe check that again and add that info to the bug you filed against LP [13:37] so that they know why it was so difficult to sign [13:42] then I would have to create another LP user .. [13:45] That is one of the issues involved. Once you have done it, you can not go back and do it again to see where things went wrong. [13:47] AlanBell, can you explain ore no someone who can some off the things they mean by personalas? [13:48] only need for 1.after that i can look back to the 1 wo is ready [13:49] already have work at a copple of the personas [13:51] faisal is almost ready i think [14:44] need to go .have to do other things now.till later all [15:39] good not help it.just have worked further on faisal persona. [15:40] can someone look ore it is good?i want to use faisal for exsample how to make the others [15:56] duanedesign, I think your clicompanion should be on that software list too, for people with memory issues [16:20] i have to go cooking.i can t read back in chat what is say when i was gone.my pc go s automatic out.after a little while. [16:23] you can disable that [16:26] how can i do that JanC ? [16:27] well, I assume it's a setting in Systeem -> Voorkeuren -> Energiebeheer doing this [16:28] its english [16:33] System -> Preferences -> something with "power" or "energy" in the name? ☺ [16:41] ok i sal look thanks JanC [16:54] i have make changes in the faisal persona http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/faisal [16:55] charlie-tca, chanes are in http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/faisal [16:55] i was forgot to put a name in [16:58] not me... AlanBell or Pendulum ^ ^ ^ [17:03] ok :) [18:48] i am bored . i cant go further with the persona.because i need more information .true example from some parts . [18:50] i have spelling English control now. [18:51] English spelling control i mean [19:05] and then suddenly the electricity was going off [19:07] hai jono [19:09] pendulum do you got time to look ore the changes i have make by the persona faisal are good? [19:10] Pendulum, ore AlanBell i mean [19:55] dutchie, what means whatsits by the deaf john persona? [19:56] i am working on the persona john now [19:57] hajour: it doesn't mean anything, i don't know the dutch equivalent [19:58] ok is that a made name from a fantasie company? [20:59] <`marianne`> hiya === JanC_ is now known as JanC [21:36] :) john persona is almost ready [21:37] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/john [21:38] Pendulum, do you a moment? [21:38] got a moment i meant [21:40] hi hajour [21:40] hai AlanBell [21:41] AlanBell, do you want to check my work on the personas faisal and john [21:41] just looking at it now [21:41] ok thank you AlanBell [21:43] i need a exsample for a challenge.if i have that i can make it further [21:45] i now not enough from the handicap deaf .i have to search for more information about that [21:46] do you have the survey results? [21:46] yes, I gave her a coppy AlanBell [21:47] great [21:47] -p [21:47] we need to base some bits on what we found out from the survey because we know that is realistic [21:48] AlanBell, from faisal i now that out personal experience [21:49] i got that myself [21:49] so everthing by faisal is correct [21:50] great [21:50] well not great, but hey you know what I mean [21:52] and the result from more progressive i now because my mother have that [21:53] yes thats why i cant writhe more yet by john [21:53] i now not yet enough from deaf [21:55] but i was playing with the idea to go for a school for deaf people .to ask what the personal experience are from them with PC use [21:55] np AlanBell [21:56] i now what you meant :) [22:00] AlanBell, i have to say something important [22:02] i have made short lines because of people with dyslectic .because some of your team who have to work it out got dyslectic to [22:03] ah, ok [22:03] I wondered what the short lines were for [22:04] yes i was looking what you was doing. and i was thinking nooo [22:05] :)) [22:05] glad you have read chat [22:06] i just have to make it short lines again [22:08] AlanBell, how can we prevent that others make it long lines again? [22:14] i maybe not say much in some chats .but I do watch on what is being said.Thats why i know that some of the team who need to work it out got dyslectic [22:18] well the pad is there for the rough drafting of it [22:18] I am going to take that and make a pretty PDF page, and also put it on the wiki [22:18] and blog it [22:19] so it is going to end up here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Faisal [22:19] so you think it is finished enough [22:20] it is getting close [22:21] don't worry about editing the wiki page, just stick to the etherpad for the moment [22:21] but AlanBell if you look at faisal.you sal see it are not short lines anymore [22:21] when we have the text really good I will format it on the wiki, I was just trying it out [22:21] ok:) [22:22] i just wanted to make easyer for the people who have to work it out . [22:22] yes, that is great [22:22] but the PDF file will be a bit different, it has to look very similar to the internal Canonical documents [22:23] thats why i have used short lines [22:23] mm [22:23] I want them to have the same status as the existing personas they use [22:24] AlanBell, accessibility is for making it easyer yes? [22:24] but the wiki version can be short simple lines [22:24] also, unfortunately line length things are one of the places where you get a lot of conflict between people with different disabilities [22:24] why not start with do that for the group who work on it [22:25] ah, because it would be a failure if only this group read them [22:25] then you need a spoken version to :P [22:25] the point of this is to educate a much wider audience about accessibility needs [22:25] good point, a podcast or something would be a great thing to do with them [22:26] hi Pendulum, how are things with you? [22:26] hai Pendulum [22:26] hope you feeling better then last time [22:29] but AlanBell how i have written.is how it Sal be easier to read for people with dislectia,add,adhd,autism. [22:30] Thats why it was realy hard to read the guide from chat,mail,enz here on ubuntu [22:31] i needed UndiFineD to read it at loud for me [22:31] spoken dont now how to say it [22:32] yes, and it is really interesting to see what you have done with it [22:33] I certainly think we should make a point of that on the Henrietta persona [22:34] ii sal look to the henrietta person [22:35] i got a lot of suggestions and solutions for the henrietta person.already in my subpage from my wiki profile [22:36] i almost not dare to say it.but i have the same problem like henrietta [22:38] addicted to tomboy [22:38] XD [22:39] and i got UndiFineD [22:41] hai Cheri703 [22:41] hi [22:43] AlanBell, maybe it is a idea to note them on the link to the wiki from that persona in the pdf for the team who have to work it out. [22:44] yes, we can certainly do that [22:44] faisal is ready AlanBell says [22:44] not quite ready [22:44] but he will be by the time Natty Alpha1 comes out [22:44] that is only a few hours away [22:45] well, maybe [22:45] is it? [22:45] I broke it bad again [22:45] i was ask some things about the persona.for a example by what there was ment.but nobody good help me [22:45] AlanBell, supposed to be out tomorrow [22:45] oh, well might be a bit late then :) [22:46]