=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann [01:37] @pilot out === udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: === asac_ is now known as asac [02:26] * sanchaz cya === sanchaz is now known as sanchaz-away [02:48] bryceh: hey. you moved a bug I filed, aaaand I don't see what it had to do with the area you moved it to === Auv5 is now known as Jack[Away] === Jack[Away] is now known as Auv5[Away] [02:57] nemo, I move many bugs, can you be more specific? [02:58] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/661494 [02:58] Ubuntu bug 661494 in gdm (Ubuntu) "Request to limit xinit writes to .xsession-errors to some reasonable value, such as 10 megs" [Undecided,New] [02:58] don't see what gdm has do do w/ xinit [02:58] and X11/Xsession [03:16] nemo, done [03:19] ahhh [03:19] DUDE [03:19] that was the one that caused me to file my enhancement request? [03:20] that bug offered no useful suggestions [03:20] that's why I didn't file it so much as a bug as a request for a specific action [03:20] a simple one at that [03:20] * nemo sighs [03:20] now it is another dupe and disappears below the waves [03:21] but, hey, at least I guess that's a tacit acknowledgement the move was wrong :-p [03:22] but, yeah, bit of a difference between the (repeated) reports of "Ubuntu filled up my HD" and "Ubuntu, please make the following short script change" [03:22] or at least seems that way to me. [03:27] nemo, dude chill it with the attitude [03:27] nemo, I just put your fix in git, but you're making me regret doing so! [03:27] eep [03:27] anyway, I'm well past EOD. [03:27] hey. didn't want it to actually be applied like that [03:27] but. uh. great? [03:28] I was concerned it was a bit too hackish, that there should be a rolling appender [03:28] nemo: Yeah. [03:28] Do you know of one off the top of your head? [03:28] erm. welll. there are the various log dæmons [03:28] do any of 'em take arbitrary streams? [03:28] * nemo looks [03:31] Ideally it should be something we already ship by default. [03:31] hmm. I wonder how hard it would be to make a rolling appender script [03:32] maybe something could be hacked up w/ tee and tail [03:32] * nemo fiddles [03:32] We *used* to have only the first 1,000 lines or so, and that always annoyed me because what I was after was almost always after the end. [03:32] yeah, that's a bit too short [03:38] grr. can't think of anything that doesn't involve a cronjob truncating :( [03:38] maybe #bash has an idea [03:39] what I want from it has always been in the first ~200 lines or at the very end personally, would love to not have this 30MB of nm-applet spam in the rest of it at the moment :) [03:39] Sarvatt: piping it through uniq -c first might help [03:39] assuming nm-applet is being repetitive [03:40] uniq -c does seem to help with my .xsession-errors [03:40] 11355 Attempted to place a tile entity where there was no entity tile! [03:40] the most repeated line :) [03:41] * RAOF agrees with Sarvatt - first ~200 lines + the rest. [03:41] hm. [03:41] that *could* be done with tee [03:42] bryceh: welll. anyway, attitude aside, what about adding uniq -c into the mix? [03:42] seems to help with mine [03:42] | uniq -c | head -c 5000000 [03:42] or whatever [03:43] does unfortunately add spam for the case of single lines though... [03:43] hm [03:44] uniq -c .xsession-errors | sed 's/^[[:space:]]*1[[:space:]]//' | head -c 5000000 [03:44] that avoids spam [03:48] It also doesn't seem to compress the xsession-errors much. [03:48] nemo@nemo-desktop:~$ uniq -c .xsession-errors > /tmp/foo [03:48] nemo@nemo-desktop:~$ ls -l /tmp/foo .xsession-errors [03:48] -rw-r--r-- 1 nemo nemo 1716081 2010-12-01 22:48 /tmp/foo [03:48] -rw------- 1 nemo nemo 7358369 2010-12-01 22:39 .xsession-errors [03:49] (this desktop has no head -c since the session hasn't been restarted in a long time :) ) [03:49] Wheras mine are both 3.5MB both before and after the uniq filtering. [03:49] 1583225 with the sed in place [03:50] RAOF: well, harmless at least [03:50] apart from spawning a couple more processes [03:51] RAOF: bet your log has a lot of timestamped error spam... [03:51] mine is probably filled with minecraft server junk :) [03:51] server/client [03:51] No. It's got a lot of pairs of lines repeating :) [03:51] well. not the server anymore, I moved that off of X [03:51] ah [03:51] shame uniq can't pick up pairs of lines [03:53] I think it'll be better to leave the log unfiltered, just truncate the middle. [03:53] RAOF: and how do you propose doing that? :) [03:53] I can't think of any clever way to do it that does not involve a cronjob [03:53] I dunno :) [03:53] anyway, slapping the uniq -c into mine. [03:54] if I had had that in place before... well, actually, since the stupid oracle process hadn't actually spewed any *lines* it wouldnt've helped [03:54] but the truncate would have [03:54] and clearly the uniq helps on my current desktop [03:55] 80% reduction almost [03:58] nemo: What does the third one result in on your system? wc -l .xsession-errors <(<.xsession-errors uniq -c) <(<.xsession-errors grep -v '^$' | uniq -c) [03:58] nemo: Sorry, wc -c [03:59] nemo@nemo-desktop:~$ wc -c .xsession-errors <(<.xsession-errors uniq -c) <(<.xsession-errors grep -v '^$' | uniq -c) | xargs [03:59] 7372672 .xsession-errors 1729099 /dev/fd/63 1718082 /dev/fd/62 10819853 total [03:59] sorry for pasting 4 lines before, btw [03:59] hm. blank line removal! [03:59] didn't think of that one [04:00] Ok, not much of a difference on your system. On my system, there’s a great number of messages from Gtk applications that have extra newlines, making uniq unable to do its magic. [04:00] I wonder if -Ev '^[[:space:]]*' would help [04:00] eh. might still be worth adding === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [04:01] shell pipes are relatively cheap [04:01] OTOH, i don’t have nearly as many messages in total. The uptime of this laptop is 10 days. My numbers: 316807 295644 236941 [04:02] Sorry, that was with uniq, not uniq -c. 316807 342260 270669 [04:03] (Note how uniq -c actually makes it bigger here.) [04:04] ion: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/661494 - added [04:04] Ubuntu bug 661494 in gdm (Ubuntu) "Request to limit xinit writes to .xsession-errors to some reasonable value, such as 10 megs (dup-of: 589275)" [Undecided,New] [04:04] Ubuntu bug 589275 in xorg (Ubuntu) "client application error messages fill up disk in .xsession-errors" [Low,Fix committed] [04:04] ion: yeah, that's why I did the sed removal of the 1 spam [04:04] ion: that way uniq is always smaller [04:05] wc -c .xsession-errors <(<.xsession-errors uniq -c | sed -r 's/^ +1 +//') <(<.xsession-errors grep -v '^$' | uniq -c | sed -r 's/^ +1 +//'): 316910 297543 239239 [04:05] ion: the grep saved 7,121 bytes over here [04:06] ion: I think the more tangible benefit of uniq is if a process is doing a *lot* of spamming and likely to overwhelm logs... [04:06] that's when uniq will show the best results [04:07] (probably) [04:10] But only if it's spamming in a particular way. [04:11] yep [04:11] but is harmless rest of time, apart from a bit of memoryu [04:12] I'm losing more memory to Xorg which locks up my X session on my ubuntu 10.10 + fglrx box every few days now [04:12] oh. and that damn gnome power manager that keeps coming back after I kill it === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless === amitk is now known as amitk-afk === stalcup is now known as v === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless [05:48] Good morning [05:48] ebroder: I think that's already fixed in trunk and has the patch attached? [05:48] smoser: hello [05:49] smoser: sure, just upload it then; question is whether it's a regression or just an incomplete fix [05:49] smoser: in the former case, we don't push the package to -updates and you need to upload with -v to include the previous -proposed upload [05:49] smoser: in the latter case, just upload === bilalakhtar_ is now known as cdbs === amitk-afk is now known as amitk [07:41] good morning [07:55] good morning! [08:00] didrocks, salut, ça va? [08:01] dholbach: hello, ça va bien, et toi ? :) === elky is now known as melissa [08:02] didrocks, ça va bien - beaucoup de neige ici :) === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === melissa is now known as elky [08:30] * dholbach hugs didrocks [08:30] didrocks rocks [08:30] * didrocks hugs dholbach === smb` is now known as smb [08:39] soren: I brought the packaging branch up-to-date for vmbuilder, if you have no objections I will upload trunk as a bzr snapshot to natty === amitk is now known as amitk-afk [09:13] mvo: go ahead. [09:15] mvo: sorry, I forget about python-defer yesterday; accepted now [09:16] thanks pitti! [09:16] thanks soren [09:17] mvo: should I mail glatzor about a new aptdaemon release and the MP? [09:17] I didn't see him on IRC recently [09:17] pitti: please do, I think he is busy [09:17] *nod* [09:17] pitti: but you are in the same town now ;) [09:17] oh :) [09:17] * pitti yells loudly === dbarth__ is now known as dbarth === amitk-afk is now known as amitk === cdbs is now known as bilalakhtar === bilalakhtar is now known as cdbs === diwic is now known as diwic_afk === ogra_ac_ is now known as ogra_ac === pedro__ is now known as pedro_ === amitk is now known as amitk-afk === dmart__ is now known as dmart === diwic_afk is now known as diwic [11:44] has Natty Alpha 1 been released? (interested in testing + bug reporting but unsure if I need to wait for a release or can use daily) [11:44] m4rtin, no [11:45] m4rtin, you'll be able to see it here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/ [11:46] dholbach: thank you [11:46] no worries [11:50] I made a blueprint for a multiseat configuration tool, which i think covers more use-cases than any tool before at more ease. Where should I start discussion about this? I'm not new to Ubuntu, but the Ubuntu Community. Mailing list, Forum or IRC? [11:50] ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com [11:51] cking, did you get the FTBFS mails for the last fwts upload? [11:51] if not I can forward them to you [11:54] dholbach, are there archives of the mailing list so I can get a picture of how things are done? [11:54] testi_, it might be worth writing up the proposal, maybe in specification form (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate), but there's archives of the mailing list as well: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/ [11:56] cking, mailed them to you in any case [11:57] dholbach, no, it's new functionality that seems to have broken arm + powerpc [11:57] dholbach, thanks! [11:57] dholbach, I will fix these :-) [11:58] cking, rock on! [11:58] testi_, anytime [11:59] dholbach, thanks for attending to my request for fwts [11:59] no worries :) === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === njpatel is now known as njpatel_ [12:55] slomo: hi [13:02] janimo: hi === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_ === oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann [13:07] <__doc__> hi [13:07] <__doc__> I'm properly exasperated. Yesterday my 3d space navigator worked, then came a bunch of updates today, and it stopped being even listed as usb device... [13:08] <__doc__> (I'm for now ignoring the issues that everytime there's an update for nvidia I've got to reinstall nvidia-current) [13:08] <__doc__> I've got the issues with the 23 kernel, and I've got it with the 22 kernel [13:09] <__doc__> can somebody tell me how I get my device back that you stole me today? === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [13:19] slomo: do you know what may cause ghc6 to behave differently on armel causing multple ftbfs's [13:20] ghc armel is -funregistered that is one big difference [13:20] slomo: it fails to find pthread symbols at link. compilation (via gcc) works [13:20] I have since asked in #ghc as well [13:21] slomo: but you may know past histroy of the builds and whether something like this occured before on non-x86 targets [13:23] didrocks: just checked, the compiz bug of jdstrand and mine are the same === hunger_ is now known as hunger [13:23] sebner: can you attach to the bug report your configuration as jdstrand did? [13:23] didrocks: mine or his? [13:24] bug report [13:24] sebner: in his bug report and mark yours as a dup, please [13:25] didrocks: tzzz, even though I have the wonderful backtrace? :P [13:26] sebner: can you paste your bug # here, please? [13:26] will be easier to discuss :) [13:26] sebner: then, upstream is already pinged about the other one === lucidfox is now known as lucidfox[away] [13:26] so, we can keep them separated if needed [13:27] didrocks: that's mine bug #683081 and that's jdstrands bug #683686 [13:27] Launchpad bug 683081 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz segfaults on start-up" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683081 [13:27] Launchpad bug 683686 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz segfaults with non-standard Default.ini" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683686 [13:28] didrocks: ah wrong, sorry [13:28] sebner: well, your stacktrace is empty there :) [13:30] didrocks: bug #683293 [13:30] Launchpad bug 683293 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in CompPlugin::windowInitPlugins()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683293 [13:32] sebner: hum, the stacktrace isn't retraced either [13:32] sebner: can you paste the output of compiz --replace as well on the bug report? [13:33] didrocks: it's the same output as jdstrand has [13:33] if it says Backend: ini -> tar ~/.config/compiz-1 and post it in the bug report [13:33] sebner: well… there are so many plugin config that it can be totally different [13:33] aye [13:33] sebner: is the Backend : ini or gconf? [13:33] sec [13:33] (I would assume ini if you say the output is the same) [13:35] janimo: no idea, sorry [13:35] slomo: ok, thanks [13:40] didrocks: done [13:40] sebner: nice, thanks :) [13:40] sebner: now, you can remove ~/.config/compiz-1 to start it [13:41] didrocks: .yeah, it works then.. without effects .. but it works [13:42] didrocks: and still .. we have two times the same bug report more or less [13:49] sebner: let's see, did you diff the configuration from the tar, is it exactly the same? not sure [13:49] let's keep them separated for now [13:49] or help debugging them :) [13:49] didrocks: At the weekend maybe but today math is much more importent ¬_¬ === kklimonda1 is now known as kklimonda [13:52] sebner: hehe, good luck! :) [13:53] didrocks: heh, thanks. :) === yofel_ is now known as yofel === lucidfox[away] is now known as lucidfox === njpatel_ is now known as njpatel [14:12] hmm, I have troubles getting debug symbols into a program I'm debugging; any debugging wizard here? [14:12] diwic, you should just explain your problem [14:13] not sure about debugging wizard but we probably have people who can have ideas on the issue [14:13] seb128, I'm debugging pulseaudio with gdb and it crashes in libjack.so [14:13] seb128, I've installed the debug package from ddebs.ubuntu.com [14:13] which ones? [14:14] seb128, libjack-jackd2-0-dbgsym [14:15] seb128, and the important rows in the backtrace points to /usr/lib/libjack.so.0 [14:16] can you pastebin the gdb log? [14:17] seb128, the entire log is quite big, but here's the backtrace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/538986 [14:17] When will 11.04 Natty ISO be availabe? [14:19] diwic, hum, seems the jack dbg are buggy [14:19] seb128, it might be that the library is dynamically loaded, if that matters [14:20] you can try to load-symbol /usr/lib/debug/... [14:20] ups [14:20] symbol-file /usr/lib/debug... [14:20] rather [14:20] When will 11.04 Natty ISO be availabe? [14:21] linuxfreaker, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule [14:21] I already went through link [14:21] but dont know when it gonna release? [14:22] How many hours left for announcement [14:22] I am eager to try out the NAtty [14:22] linuxfreaker: in the order of 3600 hours [14:22] (c'mon..) [14:22] linuxfreaker, do you ask about alpha1? [14:22] yep [14:23] today ;) [14:23] seb128, it loaded the symbol-file, but still no difference in the bt [14:23] This time Ubuntu guys are little late [14:23] diwic, seems the dbgsym is buggy then [14:23] linuxfreaker, depends from where you look at it, its early on the morning in portland oregon ;) [14:24] ahh..might be.. here in India its already late night [14:24] :) [14:25] and even earlier in ancorage alaska ;) [14:26] pitti, i would call it incomplete fix (responding to your message like 9 hours ago) [14:27] pitti, so i just upload to -proposed with a newer revision ? [14:27] smoser: so, the cleaner method would be to apply the fix, add a new rev, and build the source with -v0.5.10-0ubuntu1.3 [14:27] smoser: so that the source.changes includes the previous SRU as well (as this hasn't been released yet) [14:29] pitti, ok. so new version that i upload will just be 0.5.10-0ubuntu1.3 (0.5.10-0ubuntu1.4 is in -proposed now) [14:29] er... new version will be 0.5.10-0ubuntu1.6 [14:29] er... new version will be 0.5.10-0ubuntu1.5 [14:29] smoser: no, the new version will be 1.5 [14:30] typo mania there. sorry. [14:30] smoser: but you need to build with above -v to include the previous two changelogs [14:30] right [14:30] seb128, ok, thanks anyway [14:30] linuxfreaker: we're not late. we have never advertised what time of day the alpha would be released. (and I think I said this yesterday) [14:30] pitti, thank you. [14:30] smoser: no worries [14:39] @pilot in === udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: barry [14:42] * dholbach hugs barry [14:43] * barry waves back! [14:43] pitti: In our testing of a HALless KDE, the only issue we've run into so far is a lack of suspend/resume options. Is there something other than udisks/upower we need to bring in? Does that ring any bells from the Gnome transition? === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf [14:45] ScottK: upower provides these, so if that's present and running, and KDE talks to it, it sohld be working [14:45] pitti: so bug 595438 has pretty much been verified to death, do i need to add some tag, or is all set for the patch to be moved out of -proposed? [14:45] Launchpad bug 595438 in KVM "KVM segmentation fault, using SCSI+writeback and linux 2.4 guest" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595438 [14:45] pitti: Thanks. [14:45] ScottK: does upower --dump show "can-suspend: yes"? [14:45] JontheEchidna: ^^^ [14:46] * ScottK hasn't got the test system .... [14:46] yofel: ^^^ [14:46] yes [14:47] So that sound like it's a KDE solid problem then. [14:47] I'll assume it's some KDE/Solid integration issue [14:47] Yep. [14:47] hallyn_: "to death" seems a little exaggerated (it shold also be tested with other images, not just with one particular CD), but I marked it as verified [14:47] JontheEchidna: Could you report that to b.k.o. [14:47] sure [14:47] Thanks. [14:48] it does here too [14:48] JontheEchidna: does shutdown/reboot work? that should be ConsoleKit [14:48] pitti: yeah, that all works fine [14:48] JontheEchidna: ok, so it doesn't sound like a polkit issue then [14:48] pitti: thanks [14:49] JontheEchidna: can you run dbus-monitor --system, then try to suspend, and check what it tries to ask upower? [14:49] pitti: the issue is, that the buttons to do so are not showing up in the KDE menu [14:49] ah [14:49] KDE thinks it can't, most likely due to the upower Solid backend being new [14:50] JontheEchidna: ok, this needs source debugging then, I'm afraid [14:50] yes, I'm filing a bug report with KDE as we speak [14:50] JontheEchidna: I suppose it asks upower whether suspend is available, and thinks that it's false somehow [14:50] ok [14:51] ScottK, pitti: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258400 [14:51] KDE bug 258400 in powermanagement "[powerdevil] suspend / hibernate not avaliable without hal in KDE 4 6beta1" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [14:52] more specifically, comment #5. Should be fixed in beta2 [14:53] Nice. [15:14] pitti: Could I trouble you to run the backports script for clamav for karmic, lucid, and maverick (see Bug #684212). I'm uploading a new upstream release right after Alpha 1 is out and I'd like to get the backport done first. [15:14] Launchpad bug 684212 in maverick-backports "Please backport clamav 0.96.4+dfsg-1ubuntu2 from natty to all active releases" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684212 [15:17] ScottK: sure, doing [15:17] In Ubuntu 10.10, is it expected that the default python, python-dev, and python2.6-dev do not ship with a python.pc file? [15:17] pitti: Thanks. [15:17] So pkg-config thinks python headers aren't installed when they most certainly are? [15:18] doko: ^^^ [15:18] ScottK: so, not for dapper? [15:18] This is on Maverick [15:18] pitti: dapper and hardy need source uploads. I'll do those. [15:18] ah, ok [15:19] python2.7-dev has the .pc file, but not 2.6. This breaks the build of some applications [15:21] SEJeff_work: indeed, should be fixed [15:22] doko, Do you want me to file a bug, or will you take care of it? [15:22] SEJeff_work, ScottK: hmm, not found upstream, so I doubt it's a good idea to backport [15:26] ScottK: hm, it seems that running backports is currently totally busted :/ [15:26] "Not allowed to execute commands on this server." -- ??? [15:26] Weird. [15:27] Riddell did it for me yesterday, so breakage is recent. [15:27] I can upload them if need be. I'll look into it later if it's not sorted. [15:27] hang on [15:27] pitti, connection to port 22 rather than the new one? [15:28] ah, nevermind, got it [15:28] I need to set $UBUNTU_ARCHIVE_HOST [15:28] that's what you get from a non-regular AA :) [15:28] pitti: it changes from edge to non-edge recently [15:29] it was the cocoplum ssh access that didn't work for me === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [15:39] dholbach: I didn't subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to xdm merge bug. It's a bryceh's bot? [15:39] ari-tczew, I have no idea who subscribed the team [15:40] you might want to check out the activity log [15:43] dholbach: I did a look and it seems to bryceh activity. Looking on sponsors overview, bryceh subscribes ubuntu-sponsors even if debdiff is not correct. I'd like to start discuss about this case. [15:43] ari-tczew, you better talk to him about him - I have no idea why he might have wanted to subscribe the sponsors team [15:47] ScottK: (all done, BTW) [15:47] pitti: Thanks. [15:49] ari-tczew: I fixed merges.ubuntu.com the other day, BTW [15:52] cjwatson: I noticed, thanks :) [15:55] didrocks, do you know if a bug for the grub thing (nvidia, etc.) was filed? === MichealH is now known as Guest92515 [15:56] dholbach: I didn't have the time to do proper debug, so I'm not sure === Guest92515 is now known as MichealH [16:00] mvo: hi. in order to build a source package for update-manager, it runs the tests, but the tests appear to be dependent on an external proxy being set up manually first. i think i've seen this before but i can't remember how to set up that proxy. w/o this test_url_downloadable fails. any hints? === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch [16:03] mvo: heh, i remember now how i dealt with this before. i disabled the pre-build line in .bzr-builddeb/default.conf ;) === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [16:15] mvo: bug 633036 is ready for upload imo [16:15] Launchpad bug 633036 in Ubuntu Translations "Escaping of UTF characters in a translatable string needs fixing" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633036 [16:32] hello. I am trying to compile apt from source and i get the error "checking for curl_easy_init in -lcurl... no configure: error: failed: I need CURL due https support". But I do have curl installed-checked it using "dpkg -s curl". so what is missing piece? [16:32] sudo apt-get build-dep apt [16:33] you're missing the development libraries. that command will install them. [16:33] (and, in general, will install all the build-dependencies of apt.) [16:33] does this work with any package i want to build-specifying the option build-dep? === deryck is now known as deryck[lunch] [16:37] I did run the command "sudo apt-get build-dep apt" and I get this error "Err http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates/main libldap2-dev amd64 2.4.23-0ubuntu3.3 404 Not Found". So, where can I find the package? [16:38] sudo apt-get update [16:38] and repeat [16:38] yes, it works with any package [16:38] cjwatson, thank you. [16:38] for further questions like this, #ubuntu would be better [16:39] cjwatson, oh! okay. well I was actually going to work on a few apt bugs so that is why I ended up here. will keep this in mind. [16:39] ok, fair enough === drspeedo is now known as drspeedo|afk === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_ [16:47] Hmm, i'm not notified myself if i post to the mailing list? [16:54] So, over years of ubuntu use, Evolution has been repeatedly frustrating. Sucking up huge amounts of memory, locking up, completely failing at MAPI (both old and new exchange servers), disconnecting silently, corrupting accounts... [16:55] The last straw for me was losing all access to IMAP over the last week because Evolution had gotten confused enough internally that it was sure that davmail (which I had not changed), was sending message contents as IMAP commands. [16:56] Repeated resets of davmail did nothing, neither did updating it. So, gave up, switched to Thunderbird, and now life is awesome [16:56] Mail works great, never disconnects, uses little memory, has those nice little notifications, pretty interface... [16:56] cjwatson: I'm about to dive into a little project the server team is working on regarding preseed fetching over HTTP. Before I head into the code, can you see any barriers to adding a header to the HTTP request that fetches a preseed file containing the default route if's MAC address? [16:56] And I can even point it at a thunderbird profile on a windows share for shared mail. [16:56] So. Yeah. I think Thunderbird makes for a better default Ubuntu mail client, based on my personal experience :) [16:57] last time I used Thunderbird it was pretty janky. That was maybe 5 years ago though. [16:57] SpamapS: somebody else on your team already asked me that :) [16:57] and I said sure, file a bug on preseed [16:57] cjwatson: OH haha.. we're coming at you from all angles. :) [16:58] cjwatson: well thanks, and we'll mind the echo. ;) [16:58] I'm unlikely to have time to do it and would prefer it if you guys did. Please run it past debian-boot at lists.debian.org though, as this is effectively a new piece of interface. [16:58] nemo, SpamapS: claws-mail ftw [16:59] barry: I'm not all that unhappy with evolution. My only gripe is that in threaded mode, it sorts by the first message date, instead of the latest, so you end up missing new emails to old threads. [17:00] barry: hm. might check it out, anyway, thunderbird is behaving well for me. [17:00] barry: after years of fail, is such a relief to have e-mail that just works [17:00] oh. didn't finish my list of Evolution fail :) [17:00] i gave up on evolution after 1.4, when they added all that non-email related crap :) [17:00] junk mail that reappeared in inbox, failure to refresh folders, unable to *open* inbox by clicking on the inbox icon - was like my directory tree couldn't expand... [17:01] duplicate inbox and junk mail and sent folders appearing in tree :) [17:01] but i'm also a firm believer in using whatever works for you! [17:01] ? did you try imapx/imap+? [17:01] I went so far as to wipe every evolution setting I could find, created a new profile, reimported all my old e-mail [17:01] still blew up [17:01] didrocks: yep [17:02] didrocks: imap,imap+,mapi,webdav (while we were on old server) none of 'em were reliable :) [17:02] nemo: working fine here, with huge email account and on a netbook [17:02] but well… not the place to troll :) [17:02] * barry -> lunch [17:03] didrocks: eh. just saying, Evolution seems flakey, and always has been for me, wasn't meaning to troll, just suggest maybe it should be given up on :-p [17:03] oh evolution is flaky alright =p [17:03] didrocks: could be due to massive amounts of e-mail, and gigantic address books and, oh, perhaps exchange server flakiness. [17:03] linux lacks a good mail client that doesn't eat up a crapload of memory === oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann [17:03] *and* doesn't hang on bad networks [17:04] hyperair: thunderbird seems to be satisfying both criteria for me [17:04] memory usage is like 10% of what evolution's was, and isn't crapping out [17:04] it's wonderful that most developers have such wonderful internet connections that evolution never hangs for them, but for people with crap networks.. well.. [17:04] and had that very clever autodetect feature [17:04] nemo: the real issue is IMAP interoperability.. which Thunderbird has always done better, I assume because it has a more diverse ecosystem to support. [17:04] nemo: i like thunderbird. i use it. but back when i had only 2G of RAM in my notebook, i could only choose to open one: firefox, or thunderbird. [17:04] I admit, I miss OS X's mail app [17:05] nemo: only one or the other. opening both would send the machine into swapping hell [17:05] super simple [17:05] crazy fast [17:05] claws is awesome, but it hangs on network [17:05] or rather, it doesn't hang, but more like gets paralyzed [17:05] it'll just show that stupid progress bar for ages and ages [17:05] hyperair: meaning, if the network goes away, it fails? [17:06] SpamapS: no, if network was a nice switch that went from on to off without bouncing, it'd be awesome. [17:06] SpamapS: but the networks i'm on blink on and off and have fluctuating latencies. by a very high margin [17:06] hyperair: ahh, evo seems to handle that alright [17:06] two years ago it didn't [17:06] i had a very bad experience with that [17:07] my panel would hang until i killed evolution [17:07] see, the clock wants to access evolution-data-server [17:07] but evolution likes polling the servers on startup [17:07] and when the servers don't reply, it will hang for ever and ever >_> [17:07] and i'll be like FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU GIVE ME BACK MY CLOCK [17:08] hyperair: hm. odd. I use seamonkey on my P133 with 96MiB of memory [17:08] yeah, so i decided i had enough of that stress and went to thunderbird. [17:08] hyperair: no problem with both email and web open - admittedly, not *large* amounts of e-mail - maybe a few thousand messages [17:08] nemo: try getting a gmail inbox that's 45% full. [17:08] hyperair: anyway, they've clearly made a lot of progress in the past few years on the memory front [17:09] nemo: who, thunderbird, or evo? [17:09] nemo: i haven't used evo seriously for 2 years. [17:09]