[00:00] <ChrisWoollard> hello
[10:36] <cdbs> Did you people get a mail from Belinda?
[10:36] <cdbs> I didn't
[10:42] <cassidyjames> cdbs, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/01/%23ubuntu-manual.html
[10:43] <cdbs> oh!
[10:44] <cdbs> but it didn't come on the list...
[10:44] <cdbs> and I didn't get it
[10:44] <cassidyjames> Looks like it was direct to ChrisWoollard.
[10:44] <cassidyjames> And maybe others.
[10:49] <thorwil> godbyk: you got that mail from dinda?
[10:52] <daker> thorwil, cdbs it's about the ubuntu dev manual not the desktop manual
[10:52] <cdbs> oh
[10:53] <thorwil> ah, ok
[10:53] <daker> thorwil, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-developer-manual/msg00047.html
[10:55] <daker> sadness!!
[11:06] <nisshh> daker, why is it sad?
[11:12] <nisshh> daker, do you think its bad because a canonical employee is being paid to work on the dev manual?
[11:13] <daker> nisshh, no ツ
[11:13] <nisshh> daker, so why is it sad? (sorry, i just dont understand why you said that)
[11:14] <daker> i have this feeling ツ
[11:15] <daker> just because the project is going from worse to worst
[11:15] <nisshh> daker, dont be like that, the project will not die :)
[11:15] <daker> i hope
[11:15] <nisshh> we have the people working on it who dont want it to die ;)
[11:19] <daker> having people to work on something doesn't mean this thing will be done ツ
[11:19] <nisshh> daker, true, but i think we will get things going well again soon :)
[11:20] <daker> ok i'll trust you
[11:20] <nisshh> haha
[11:20] <nisshh> daker, dont put your trust in me, put it in the whole manual team :)
[11:21] <daker> \o/
[15:15] <hannie> godbyk, ping
[17:06] <hannie> Godbyk, ping
[17:18] <hannie> Hi Chris
[17:18] <ChrisWoollard> Hello
[17:18] <hannie> Do you know if Kevin is on holiday?
[17:18] <nisshh> hannie, he isnt, i was talking to him yesterday
[17:19] <ChrisWoollard> He was around yesterday.
[17:19] <hannie> ok, then he is just too busy to answer my emais
[17:19] <hannie> *emails
[17:20] <ChrisWoollard> I think yesterday he got home from work at approx 23:15 UTC
[17:20] <hannie> That is crazy
[17:20] <hannie> I will just have to be patient
[17:20] <ChrisWoollard> but he is about 5/6 hours behind
[17:20] <hannie> 7 to be precise
[17:21] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[17:21] <hannie> I wanted to know of the Dutch pdf is about to be published
[17:21] <hannie> *if
[17:22] <ChrisWoollard> I haven't heard anything about how fare he has got with that.
[17:22] <ChrisWoollard> If i see him later, I'll remind him to mail you.
[17:23] <hannie> Thank you, Chris
[17:23] <hannie> I do not want to put any pressure on him
[17:23] <hannie> Do we have a new leader?
[17:24] <nisshh> hannie, its ok, godbyk loves it :)
[17:24] <hannie> Aha
[17:24] <nisshh> hannie, i think c7p was taking charge at one point, im no sure now ;)
[17:24] <nisshh> not*
[17:24] <ChrisWoollard> I am note sure about a leader
[17:25] <hannie> He certainly stirred up things
[17:25] <hannie> I hope the project will continue
[17:25] <ChrisWoollard> thanks nisshh
[17:25] <nisshh> :)
[17:26] <ChrisWoollard> I know i don't want it to die.
[17:26] <hannie> See you, guys
[17:26] <ChrisWoollard> tot ziens
[17:26] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[17:26] <hannie> :)
[17:27] <ChrisWoollard> nisshh, I will do my best to go to that meeting tomorrow.
[17:28] <nisshh> ChrisWoollard, sure, but dont stress out if you miss it, its not super duper important tha everyone comes :)
[17:28] <nisshh> that*
[17:28] <ChrisWoollard> i know.
[17:28] <ChrisWoollard> but it does help to know what is going on
[17:29] <ChrisWoollard> That is also why I said I will try my best, rather than saying I will come or i promise to come :)
[17:30] <nisshh> yeah, fair enough
[17:30] <ChrisWoollard> anyway. back later. I have to go to one of my childrens parents evening.
[17:31] <nisshh> ok, cya
[18:36] <ChrisWoollard> evening all
[18:44] <nisshh> dinda, feel free to ping me if you have any more questions, im just watching a movie here
[18:56] <dinda> nisshh: thanks, just going through the style guide right now
[19:01] <ChrisWoollard> dinda: Are you going to have tomorrows meeting here?
[19:02] <dinda> ChrisWoollard: #quickly  most likely
[19:06] <ChrisWoollard> Thanks. I assume there will me an e-mail to confirm.
[19:12] <godbyk> [Time to catch up..]
[19:12] <godbyk> thorwil: Yeah, I got the email from dinda.
[19:12] <godbyk> Looks like hannie's offline now, but I haven't done anything with the Dutch manual yet.
[19:13] <godbyk> Hey, dinda. If you're referring to the style guide mentioned in the topic for this channel, it consists primarily of techie stuff at the moment.
[19:13] <godbyk> I wrote it to get folks up to speed on the formatting commands we're using for the Ubuntu manual.
[19:15] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: Can you mail Hannie and tell him you haven't done anything yet.
[19:15] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Re: The ubuntu-manual.org site: I'm currently hosting it. But the new version that daker has written requires Django and I'm having a tough time getting it running on my host.
[19:15] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Yep, I'll get in touch with hannie.
[19:15] <ChrisWoollard> So should we be looking for another host for it then?
[19:16] <godbyk> At one point I think dutchie offered to host the Django site. I'm not sure if that offer's still on the table or not.
[19:16] <godbyk> I offered to continue to host the static files (PDFs, images, etc.) since I have ostensibly unlimited bandwidth.
[19:17] <godbyk> I may also create a separate user account on my host and give Django another shot there.  But that won't happen until this weekend at least.
[19:17] <ChrisWoollard> What kind of bandwidth do we use?
[19:17] <ChrisWoollard> And how big is the site?
[19:18] <godbyk> My hosting provider gives me essentially unlimited bandwidth and disk space (under certain conditions, of course), but they like to kill processor-intensive processes, so I don't know how well a Django site would fare.
[19:18] <godbyk> Let me look.
[19:18] <ChrisWoollard> I guess we should check with dutchie.
[19:18] <ChrisWoollard> about django bit
[19:19] <ChrisWoollard> but it doesn't hurt to have the numbers, just in case
[19:20] <dinda> godbyk:  do you know if ubuntu still includes the 2007 Tex version?  do I still need to 2009 manually?
[19:20] <ChrisWoollard> 10.10 has 2009
[19:20] <godbyk> files.ubuntu-manual.org (which hosts the PDFs of the manuals) used 84,336 MB of bandwidth during the month of November 2010.
[19:20] <godbyk> The current ubuntu-manual.org site itself used 5269 MB during the same period.
[19:21] <godbyk> dinda: Ubuntu 10.10 does have TeX Live 2009, but it's missing a few LaTeX packages (and has some outdated versions of others).
[19:22] <godbyk> You're welcome to give it a try (I haven't in quite a while, so I don't know if it's up to par or not).  But I've found it's easier to just install TeX Live from upstream.
[19:22] <dinda> godbyk: I'm assuming (hoping) that for writing, formatting, etc followed the regular documentation team style guide?
[19:23] <godbyk> (For what it's worth, upstream is up to TeX Live 2010 now. They released it a couple months ago.)
[19:23] <godbyk> dinda: I don't know that anyone's followed any particular style guide with regard to language use, etc.
[19:23] <ChrisWoollard> i think for the developer manual they got it working with texlive from the package tree.
[19:24] <godbyk> dinda: I've been meaning to incorporate a lot of that into our style guide but haven't had the time.
[19:24] <godbyk> The GNOME documentation team has a great style guide as well.
[19:24] <godbyk> (I've found it to be more helpful than the Ubuntu doc team's style guide, frankly.)
[19:24] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Did they? Great!
[19:25] <ChrisWoollard> I think they striped out some of manuals additional bits
[19:25] <ChrisWoollard> there is a script in the branch to install all what is needed
[19:25] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: As I recall, the primary issues were that required a newer version of XeTeX so that polyglossia would work properly (for translations), and that the ccicons package was missing (which just provided the Creative Commons icons used on the copyright page).
[19:26] <ChrisWoollard> i know they removed the refs to ccicons
[19:26] <godbyk> Ah, I see that now.
[19:27] <ChrisWoollard> I am not sure what was gone with polyglossia
[19:28] <godbyk> I think polyglossia required a newer version of XeTeX.  I'm sure the TL2009 packages have that.
[19:28] <ChrisWoollard> I haven't tested there install script. I am using texlive 2010
[19:28] <ChrisWoollard> s/there/their
[19:29] <ChrisWoollard> I did update it the other day to include the currect fonts
[19:32] <godbyk> Writing the English version is easy. It's the translations that add a lot of the complexity. :)
[19:34] <ChrisWoollard> dinda: Is there any plan to do international versions of the dev manual?
[19:35] <dinda> ChrisWoollard: all the work is CC-by-SA so anyone can do that bit if they like.  .
[19:35] <dinda> but it can't be a blocker to get the first edition out
[19:38] <dinda> ChrisWoollard: do you recommend the 2010 version?
[19:42] <cassidyjames> Hey everyone, I updated the article on Muktware from yesterday to better clarify things. Sorry for the mis-interpretation! And thanks for pointing it out, popey. :)
[19:43] <godbyk> dinda: If you do decide to install TL2010 from upstream, be sure to go into the options menu and enable the creation of symbolic links (symlinks) during installation.
[19:45] <dinda> godbyk: I think I'm going to start with the 2009 version and see if it works for what I need
[19:46] <dinda> godbyk: are you still working on updating the manual style guide?
[19:47] <godbyk> dinda: Sounds like a plan.  Please let me know if you encounter any problems using the stock 2009 packages.
[19:47] <godbyk> dinda: I haven't for quite a while, but it really does need to be updated considerably.
[19:47] <godbyk> The style guide grew out of a 'how to use LaTeX' tutorial for our authors.
[19:48] <godbyk> But it should really encompass usage, spelling, a discussion of common grammatical errors, etc., too.
[19:48] <godbyk> Especially with regard to the words used in describing parts of the Ubuntu/GNOME desktop.
[19:48] <dinda> godbyk: other than the bits about How 2 for authors - why not just reference the GNOME SG?
[19:49] <nisshh> godbyk, there are specific things to do with the dev manual too, (programming terminology, etc)
[19:50] <nisshh> jenkins, hey dude, why are you using the freenode web interface?
[19:50] <godbyk> dinda: I will probably do that. I need to review the Ubuntu docs and GNOME style guides to see if there's anything we disagree on, but they're otherwise great sources.
[19:51] <ChrisWoollard> nisshh: there is nothing wrong with 2009, it works for everything we need.
[19:52] <jenkins> hey all, nisshh my laptop is still broken :(
[19:52] <ChrisWoollard> it is just that instuctions on the ubuntu-manual site now download 2010 instead of 2009
[19:52] <nisshh> ChrisWoollard, i was talking about the style guide, not tex live :)
[19:52] <nisshh> jenkins, ah ok
[19:52] <nisshh> jenkins, need to talk to you about your dev manual chapters sometime too
[19:52] <ChrisWoollard> sorry, it think dinda asked that question.
[19:53] <nisshh> ChrisWoollard, hehe
[19:53] <dinda> ChrisWoollard: yip, twas me, thanks
[19:53] <jenkins> yea nisshh I don't have an ubuntu box at the moment this is my work laptop
[19:53] <nisshh> jenkins, yeah, thats fine, whenever your all sorted out, im just letting you know
[19:55] <jenkins> It may be a while, depends on what i decide to get.
[19:57] <nisshh> jenkins, ok, if you dont think you will be able to get a draft of all your chapters done in the next month or two, please let me know so i can get others to work on them :)
[19:57] <jenkins> I don't think i will a am afraid
[19:58] <jenkins> the only other scout leader has left and that is taking up loads of my time
[20:00] <dinda> nisshh: which version of English was the manual written to?
[20:03] <godbyk> dinda: I know that the Ubuntu manual and the Ubuntu docs are written in US English.
[20:03] <godbyk> dinda: Not sure about the dev guide, though.
[20:05] <dinda> godbyk: that's good enough for me;  US English is fine
[20:06] <godbyk> dinda: In the Ubuntu manual project, I think that, as an American, I'm outnumbered, though.
[20:07] <godbyk> (Yay, commas!)
[20:08] <dinda> godbyk: yeah, I'm so used to writing UK English that I have to remember to reset my dictionaries to US English all the time (I'm from Texas)
[20:09] <godbyk> For some reason Empathy is stuck on UK English.
[20:09] <godbyk> Its spell-checker has a host of other issues, too, though.
[20:09] <godbyk> But it still causes me to question my sanity upon occasion.
[20:12] <ChrisWoollard> I love UK English.
[20:12] <ChrisWoollard> I may be slightly biased
[20:14] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: It has its charm. ;-)
[20:14] <ChrisWoollard> I am sure it has some annoyances also
[20:15] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: my nice new Latex book should arrive tomorrow
[20:15] <ChrisWoollard> as per your suggestion
[20:15] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Ah, cool.  That'll keep you busy for a while!
[20:19] <ChrisWoollard> more than likely
[22:48] <dutchie> the offer of hosting is still on the table, but university is leaving me with no time to sort it
[22:48] <dutchie> term finishes this saturday though