[08:07] <dpm> good morning everyone!
[08:07] <andrejz> morning!
[08:09] <dpm> hey andrejz :)
[08:15] <andrejz> dpm, tell me when you have time so i can bug you about apt-all
[08:15] <andrejz> ;)
[08:16] <dpm> hey andrejz, sure, let me go through my inbox first and then we'll have a look :)
[08:16] <andrejz> pl
[08:16] <andrejz> ok
[08:27] <TLE> dpm: how are we doing on the updates?
[08:27] <TLE> Liked the show yesterday by the way ;)
[08:29] <dpm> TLE, thanks! glad you liked it :-)
[08:29] <dpm> TLE, so here's what's happened with the updates:
[08:29] <dpm> (I'm talking to jtv and henninge about it right now)
[08:30] <dpm> it seems that the maverick export did not run (or rather it was killed I'm told), so the PPA package could not be built either
[08:31] <dpm> See the missing delta langpack on the 1st of Dec:
[08:31] <dpm> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+language-packs
[08:32] <dpm> And we're trying to figure out what went wrong as we speak
[08:33] <dpm> which is extremely bad luck, considering that all the other exports to date run fine, and the one we want to test did not happen :/
[08:34] <andrejz> dpm, actually is good because now you can help me fix the bug, before language pack is updated
[08:35] <andrejz> :)
[08:35] <dpm> andrejz, hahaha, that's the spirit, always look on the bright side :-)
[08:37] <andrejz> so my problem is that on 2010-11-19 a packages has been uploaded from somewhere to apt-all
[08:37] <andrejz> or one of the apt packages
[08:37] <andrejz> Michael Voigt is listed as a translator, so i assume this has been done automatically
[08:37] <andrejz> The problem is that the encoding in those files was incorrect
[08:38] <andrejz> So all non-latin characters are not displayed properly
[08:38] <andrejz> The list of wrong strings can be seen here - https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/apt/+pots/apt/sl/+filter?person=mvo
[08:39] <dpm> andrejz, ok, let's have a look (btw, this might have to be solved with a package upload rather than a language pack, apt's translations are a bit special, but more of that in a bit)
[08:39] <andrejz> Letters like Ă shouldn't be there
[08:41] <artnay> andrejz: will it fallback to english if there's Ă's and Ă's etc.?
[08:42] <andrejz> artnay: I don't understand the question
[08:43] <dpm> andrejz, when did you notice this happening? It seems that there hasn't been any post-release apt upload looking at the changelog -> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/apt/+changelog (I'm just trying to determine when it happened first)
[08:43] <artnay> andrejz: nevermind, I just looked at your link
[08:44] <andrejz> Launchpad site says these strigns have been modified by Michael Voigt ob 2010-11-19
[08:44] <andrejz> see here
[08:44] <andrejz> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/apt/+pots/apt-all/sl/+translate
[08:44] <artnay> andrejz: so those strings are displayed even though there's extra characters?
[08:45] <andrejz> it should be displayed like this
[08:45] <andrejz> Paket %s razliÄice %s ima nerazreĹĄene odvisnosti:
[08:45] <andrejz> see the "ĹĄ" letter
[08:45] <andrejz> that's a special letter in slavic languages
[08:45] <andrejz> and also "Ä"
[08:46] <andrejz> but now the string is - Paket %s razliĂÂica %s ima nereĂÂene odvisnosti
[08:46] <dpm> andrejz, ah, that's probably due to message sharing: probably a Natty upload has imported new strings and they've been propagated to Maverick. So the important question is: on a Slovenian Maverick system, are apt strings ok? I'm guessing yes, because there hasn't been any update (either apt or language pack) since the release.
[08:47] <andrejz> yes they are (if one doesn't use language pack ppa)
[08:48] <andrejz> but now the language pack is going to be updated for all
[08:49] <dpm> andrejz, ok, let me explain what we can do. But first of all, I've just noticed this on the upstream apt translations:
[08:50] <dpm> "Last-Translator: Jure Cuhalev <gandalf (AT) owca (DOT) info>\n"
[08:50] <dpm> "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2\n"
[08:50] <dpm> You might want to get in touch with him to use UTF-8 encoding
[08:51] <dpm> oh, and it seems to be pretty old as well:
[08:51] <dpm> "PO-Revision-Date: 2005-02-16 22:18+0100\n"
[08:51] <andrejz> I think he is not translating actively anymore, this was probably uploaded by someone else
[08:51] <andrejz> yup as you said
[08:52] <andrejz> i know he is not active because a debian translator asked if could export our translations for Debian (which i did)
[08:53] <dpm> ah that's really cool, nice to see Debian people reusing the work of Ubuntu translators :-)
[08:53] <andrejz> is there anything else I can do, besides downloading .po, manually fixing it and importing it back?
[08:54] <dpm> andrejz, so here's my suggestion:
[08:56] <dpm> 1) file a bug against apt, explaining what's happened. Don't forget to mention the date you saw this happening and that this is probably due to a package upload in Natty importing translations and these translations being "message-shared" with Maverick. Don't forget to add a task for the 'ubuntu-translations' project in the bug
[08:56] <dpm> 2) Install the latest Maverick PPA package to test if the problem is present there: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=sl&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=maverick
[08:57] <andrejz> yes it is present here, that's how i noticed it
[08:57] <andrejz> in update manager for example
[08:57] <dpm> andrejz, ok, then ignore 2) and let's concentrate on the bug first :-)
[08:58] <dpm> andrejz, ok let me quickly think what we can do to fix the strings in LP in the meantime
[08:59] <andrejz> ok
[08:59] <andrejz> be back in 10 mins
[09:05] <andrejz> back
[09:17] <andrejz> dpm, i can download the .po file, translate /fix it and then reimport it.
[09:21] <andrejz> i just want to know if it will be fast enought for the next language pack update
[09:26] <dpm> andrejz, I'd suggest doing that, but rather than fixing it manually, I'm trying to see if I can give you a correct version of the PO file to save you some work (unless you already have one).
[09:32] <andrejz> is it possible to prevent this from happening in the future ?
[09:39] <dpm> andrejz, this looks to me like a bug either in Natty's apt package or in the apt translation. I believe fixing the translation and making it be UTF-8 should fix it
[09:39] <dpm> andrejz, ok, so I hope this helps:
[09:40] <dpm> Here is the correct PO file, from the language pack before the final maverick one (I couldn't get a quick download link for it, but the pre-final apt translations should be fine):
[09:40] <dpm>   http://ubuntuone.com/p/Rx6/
[09:41] <dpm> And in case you want to compare, here are the translations for the latest export (the one with the wrong translations):
[09:41] <dpm>   http://ubuntuone.com/p/RxB/
[09:42] <dpm> I've included all apt* translations, in case you want to check them all out
[09:43] <dpm> The only thing you need to do is to check the translations from http://ubuntuone.com/p/Rx6/ and if they're ok upload them choosing "imported translation". You might only need to upload apt-all, I haven't checked in more detail.
[09:44] <dpm> Hm, and also looking at the apt source package, it seems that there are other templates as well. Could you also check that the other 2 templates (lib*) are ok?:
[09:44] <dpm> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/apt
[09:45] <andrejz> i will
[09:45] <andrejz> thanks for the files, dpm
[09:45] <dpm> Anyway, I need to get onto something else now, I hope this helps you solving your problem
[09:45] <dpm> no worries :)
[09:46] <dpm> btw, you can always get them from here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+language-packs but they're ~200 - 500 MB, and it might take a while to download them. I just thought that having a direct connection with the canonical server I could download them quicker for you
[09:54] <andrejz> hm, loooking at the files, i see all of them are ok
[09:54] <andrejz> so i can simply re-upload them and everything will be fine
[10:01] <dpm> andrejz, that's really strange. The latest export should have contained the files with the wrong encoding, which are the ones converted to .mo and shipped in the language packs :/
[10:02] <dpm> andrejz, before uploading, could you please export the PO file from Launchpad and compare it?
[10:02] <andrejz> i have already downloaded .pot and will update with it
[10:07] <dpm> I'm not sure I follow. why did you download the .pot file? Would it not have been easier to downoad the .po file and compare it?
[11:10] <TLE> dpm: ahh ok, then what, we move eveything 1 week?, I guess you don't want to do a manual export and build?
[11:12] <dpm> TLE, yes, I'd suggest that, especially because it's a long Bank Holiday next week here and I won't be back until Thursday (but in time to do the call for testing)
[11:57] <TLE> ok, I'll update the schedule and push everything forward one week
[11:57] <TLE> dpm: ^^
[11:58] <dpm> TLE, sounds good, thanks. I'm still talking to the LP guys to see if there is anything else to be done
[11:58] <dpm> I saw you updated the work items on the spec, btw, thanks for that as well :-)
[12:00] <TLE> ahh np :: calendar and wiki updated
[12:05] <dpm> ok :)
[12:26] <dpm> TLE, on Wednesday there is a Launchpad rollout, which might conflict with the export. So we're trying to schedule an export for Sunday to make sure it happens. Just a FYI, the calendar and the wiki can remain the same (the PPA should be built as scheduled on Wednesday)
[12:38] <TLE> dpm: ok
[13:53] <gtriderxc> is there any english native speaker here??
[13:53] <gtriderxc> who could help me??
[13:55] <gtriderxc> "Sequin DNA Sequence Submission Tool" is there anyone who could help me to understand this string??
[13:58] <TLE> I'm not a senglish speaker but I think I can
[13:58] <gtriderxc> it is from Ubuntu software center
[13:59] <gtriderxc> do You think the word SUMISSION comes from "submit"
[14:00] <TLE> It looks like the description for: a tool to submit DNA sequences of the type sequin
[14:00] <gtriderxc> sequin is the name of the program
[14:00] <TLE> ahh ok, yes I think it comes from submit
[14:01] <gtriderxc> I'll try to google it out but it is not so easy
[14:01] <TLE> if it can do some calculations one them, then when you start a simulation you often say the you submit it
[14:02] <gtriderxc> ok, tnaks. I think I got it
[14:19] <gtriderxc> ARC Job Submission Tool
[14:19] <gtriderxc> Grid Job Management Tool
[14:19] <gtriderxc> does anyone know what does Grid mean in this case??
[14:20] <gtriderxc> "This is a graphical user interface for the Advanced Resource Connector (ARC) grid middleware client. It offers among other things bulk job handling and easy job description creation."
[14:21] <gtriderxc> no idea for a Polish desription for a Software Center
[14:32] <askhl> gtriderxc: hi.  `grid jobs' are most likely calculations that are submitted to a `grid' of computers
[14:32] <askhl> see `grid computing'
[14:32] <askhl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_computing
[14:32] <gtriderxc> ok, found
[14:32] <gtriderxc> thanks a lot!
[14:33] <askhl> Right, ARC is related to NorduGrid which is exactly that sort of thing
[14:35] <gtriderxc> I'm finishing the translation of software center and all the sweatest cakes left so I'm gonna need some help from time to time
[14:51] <dpm> hey, is there anyone around that can help me with a quick test before opening natty translations?
[14:51] <gtriderxc> i can
[14:55] <dpm> great, thanks gtriderxc -> ok, can you try if you can access https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty?
[14:56] <gtriderxc> yes I can
[14:56] <gtriderxc> but there are
[14:57] <gtriderxc> 5 languages only
[14:57] <askhl> gtriderxc: isn't it because you have 5 preferred languages?
[14:57] <dpm> that's probably because you haven't chosen your preferred languages or you are not logged into Launchpad. In any case, you should be able to click on the link near the bottom to show all languages
[14:57] <askhl> gtriderxc: I see the whole list when I expand it
[14:58] <gtriderxc> just a sec
[14:58] <dpm> That helped already, thanks gtriderxc and askhl, I can now officially open Natty translations! \o/
[14:58] <gtriderxc> i'll sign out
[14:58] <gtriderxc> actually I am signed out
[14:59] <askhl> wohoo
[15:00] <gtriderxc> :)
[15:05] <dpm> there you go -> please anyone feel free to retweet: http://twitter.com/#!/ubuntul10n/status/10710720010256384
[15:05] <dpm> (can't seem to get the identi.ca feed work with gwibber)
[15:18] <gtriderxc> "Identify differences in the API exposed by mono library assemblies."
[15:18] <gtriderxc> what are  mono library assemblies.
[15:19] <gtriderxc> ??
[15:20] <gtriderxc> or what is a mono library??
[15:20] <gtriderxc> wikipedia doesn't know that
[15:20] <gtriderxc> google as well
[15:24] <dpm> gtriderxc, Mono: http://www.mono-project.com/Languages
[15:25] <gtriderxc> thanks
[15:25] <dpm> well, better: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
[17:24] <gtriderxc> can anyone explain to me how should I know which string is which when translating Software Center (app-install-data). I stucked at Seamonkey Composer. in a soft center we've got two lines: upper with bigger letters and a lower one which should be a program description
[17:24] <gtriderxc> what about seamonkey??
[17:24] <gtriderxc> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/app-install-data-ubuntu/+pots/app-install-data/pl/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Seamonkey
[17:25] <gtriderxc> I'd love to give a Polish desription but i do not know whether the string which I'm gonna translate is a name string or a description string
[17:26] <gtriderxc> I know there are h1 and h2 I do not trust them anymore
[17:26] <gtriderxc> *but I do not trust ...
[17:28] <dpm> gtriderxc, you can try with nightmonkey to see which description is which:
[17:28] <dpm> http://nightmonkey.ubuntu.hu/
[17:29] <gtriderxc> ok but
[17:29] <gtriderxc> the thing I do not uderstand is
[17:30] <gtriderxc> that when i put "seamonkey" into a search engine it gives me back only h1 for example
[17:31] <gtriderxc> now if i open the soft centre and i can see SEAMONKEY COMPOSER as a h1 and SEAMONKEY COMPOSER as a h2
[17:31] <gtriderxc> but on launchpad is only h1
[17:32] <dpm> Does it really make a difference for Seamonkey where the string is shown in this case?
[17:33] <gtriderxc> no, but why there is only one on Launchpad??
[17:35] <gtriderxc> i'm unable to give a Polish decription in this case
[17:37] <dpm> it might well be that they are the same string in Launchpad
[17:38] <dpm> and used in two places in Software Center
[17:38] <gtriderxc> ok, thanks