[00:55] <dogmatic69> anyone know what protocol pop3 / imap is?
[00:56] <dogmatic69> picking from :: "ip","icmp","ggp","tcp", "egp","pup","udp","hmp","xns-idp", "rdp","rvd"
[01:05] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: tcp
[01:05] <dogmatic69> cool, thanks
[01:06] <dogmatic69> would have been my first guess as its the most common that i know of :P
[01:06] <Azelphur> haha
[01:06] <dogmatic69> with ip and udp a close second
[01:06] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: that's a weird list though because it contains some stuff that's encapsulated by other stuff
[01:06] <dogmatic69> the rest i have not even heard of :/
[01:06] <Azelphur> like rdp, remote desktop protocol, is a TCP connection
[01:07] <Azelphur> so it's kinda like having the same thing in the list twice :S
[01:07] <dogmatic69> maybe its like a more specific type
[01:07] <Azelphur> I guess :p
[01:07] <dogmatic69> like you get "cars" can you get "sports cars"
[01:07] <Azelphur> there are 3 major types that I know of though, TCP UDP and IMCP
[01:07] <Azelphur> :)
[01:08] <dogmatic69> well im sure they all branch from one main one (tcp maybe)
[01:08] <dogmatic69> each with their own little annoyance just to make development easy
[01:08] <Azelphur> I think UDP would be the one main, but I'm not sure
[01:09] <Azelphur> havn't gone to deep into the history of it
[01:09] <Azelphur> you can't use TCP for anything that requires super low latency so UDP is still heavily used
[01:09] <dogmatic69> i figured out UDP because of torrents (about 5 years ago)
[01:09] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:09] <dogmatic69> i know about tcp/ip from like 1996/97
[01:10] <Azelphur> UDP is a stateless connection, you send your data off into the ethos with no guarentee that it'll arrive in the order you sent it (or at all)
[01:10] <Azelphur> it's good for games because it's faster as it doesn't do all that state tracking :p
[01:10] <dogmatic69> hacking the ol' internet on netscape \o/
[01:10] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:10] <dogmatic69> ah, makes sense about the torrents then also
[01:10] <Azelphur> where as TCP is designed to ensure all your packets arrive, and in the order they are sent
[01:10] <Azelphur> but all that checking obviously adds overhead
[01:10] <dogmatic69> ye
[01:11]  * Azelphur spent a lot of time reverse engineering protocols with wireshark for fun \o/
[01:11] <dogmatic69> even more sense for torrents, being downloades kb's at a time from all over
[01:11] <dogmatic69> lol
[01:11] <Azelphur> hehe indeed
[01:11] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: I wrote an addon for mIRC (a Windows IRC client) to make it connect to MSN for example :p
[01:12] <dogmatic69> im re-writing php's imap functions
[01:12] <Azelphur> why? o.O
[01:12] <dogmatic69> i know mirc... those were the good old days of dial-up and irc
[01:12] <Azelphur> hehe that's the one
[01:12] <Azelphur> I was 6 years old when I started on dialup and mIRC :D
[01:13] <dogmatic69> 1) its fing ugly, 2) its an extension, not available to hosts which does not suite my end user os php app im building
[01:13] <dogmatic69> lol
[01:13] <dogmatic69> i was like 12ish
[01:13] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:13] <dogmatic69> when i was 6 the internet was a classified CIA something or another
[01:13] <Azelphur> I'm a glutton for control with my server stuff
[01:14] <Azelphur> started out with a VPS, got a big dedi now too
[01:14] <dogmatic69> i was a pro on dos 5.x though ;)
[01:14] <dogmatic69> i just got a little slice
[01:14] <Azelphur> hehe
[01:14] <dogmatic69> only moved to ubuntu 3 moths ago, so was never 'able' to work linux
[01:15] <Azelphur> ah, I been over this way for 3 years :D
[01:15] <dogmatic69> was under the impression you needed to be a rocket scientist
[01:15] <Azelphur> I was such a noob when I switched :)
[01:15] <Azelphur> haha, 3 years ago you almost did
[01:15] <dogmatic69> in hind site, sudo apt-get install anything is easier
[01:15] <Azelphur> I started off on ubuntu 7.10 before they had jockey and such
[01:16] <Azelphur> and I'd never touched Linux before in my life
[01:16] <Azelphur> actually should start earlier because this is a hilarious story :p
[01:16] <Azelphur> I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgV2GlsufI
[01:16] <dogmatic69> i installed 9.04 for the first time using linux... was not happy when i had to write 2 pages of code to use 2 monitors :/
[01:16] <Azelphur> and decided that I really wanted that, so I did the most awesome thing ever
[01:17] <Azelphur> I went to ##linux and asked what distro I should use as a beginner
[01:17] <Azelphur> <epic flame war insues>
[01:17] <dogmatic69> lol
[01:17] <dogmatic69> as it would
[01:17] <Azelphur> got heckled around pretty much every distro, Debian, Fedora, neither of them would start X at the time
[01:18] <Azelphur> and in the end someone pointed me at Ubuntu :P
[01:18] <Azelphur> which was the only distro I managed to get to start X, so I stuck with that
[01:18] <Azelphur> kept on following different guides on how to get my graphics drivers to work with dual screen and compiz, I was on ATI too back before the open source drivers where in full swing
[01:19] <Azelphur> so it was ATI+fglrx+dual screen which was the most difficult combo back in those days :p
[01:19] <Azelphur> I'd follow a guide, and when it didn't work I'd reload fresh to make sure I had a clean attempt at the next guide
[01:19] <Azelphur> by reload fresh, I mean a complete reinstall of Ubuntu :p
[01:20] <Azelphur> ~70 reloads later...success :D, I'd finally got wine, compiz, fglrx, and dual screen working
[01:20] <Azelphur> so I left it downloading my game via steam to try it out
[01:20] <Azelphur> woke up the next morning, power supply blew while I was asleep :(
[01:20] <Azelphur> ^ sods law in action right there xD
[01:23] <dogmatic69> damn
[01:23] <dogmatic69> that sucks
[01:25] <Azelphur> haha
[01:26] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: the funnier part is my brother built that PC and it was on it's third power supply
[01:26] <Azelphur> so I decided to hell with it and build a new PC, with nvidia cards for ease of use \o/
[01:26] <dogmatic69> o.o
[01:27] <Azelphur> I decided I was gonna put vista on it, because I needed a 64bit OS for my 4GB RAM, and XP 64bit was rather old and on the verge of being neglected, I figured it was Vista or nothing
[01:27] <Azelphur> so installed Vista 64, let it do it's update, let it reboot as requested, machine never booted again (blue screen of death)
[01:28] <Azelphur> after 3 reinstalls I came to the conclusion that this was indeed a glaringly obvious terrible oversight, and decided wow...to hell with this and went back to plugging away at Ubuntu xD
[01:28] <Azelphur> and that's how I ended up the crazy Linux gamer xD
[01:30] <Azelphur> every time I go near a windows machine now it does something so insanely irritating that I maintain that taking a performance hit and not having some games work is better than that god-awful os :p
[01:35] <dogmatic69> hehe
[01:35] <dogmatic69> i was a user of vista for many years
[01:35] <dogmatic69> since the first cracked RC came out :P
[01:35] <dogmatic69> then they fixed the crack, and could never find one that works so i paid 200 bucks for a proper one :/
[01:43] <Azelphur> haha :p
[01:51] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: so you are a ace with this protocol stuff?
[01:51] <Azelphur> a bit yea
[01:52] <dogmatic69> maybe you could give me a bit more info on this issue, like low level problems it could be or something
[01:53] <dogmatic69> when im reading from a stream created in php, things work pretty good if i set the size correctly or below the size of the data coming
[01:53] <dogmatic69> if i have it to high i get a 504 gateway error
[01:53] <dogmatic69> seems like its just "receiving" nothing, hoping that oneday the rest of the data would come
[02:21] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: not sure, never done much in PHP
[02:53] <neptune> does anyone know how ubuntu schedules threads on a multi-core processor?
[08:13] <daubers> 6~4Morning
[08:17] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:17] <daubers> Things to do today: Go to wedding
[08:22] <daubers> Hows things czajkowski?
[08:22] <czajkowski> grand thanks
[08:22] <czajkowski> we were meant to go to a mates wedding party today
[08:22] <czajkowski> but she had to call it off as all our mates are stuck in ireland
[08:23] <daubers> Oof
[08:24] <daubers> Supposed to start cheering up now
[08:25] <daubers> (weather wise)
[08:30] <kaushal> is it better to go with btrfs or ext4 in 10.10
[08:38] <daubers> ext4
[08:39] <daubers> btrfs still has issues
[08:39] <kaushal> ok
[08:40] <kaushal> daubers: also what would be the ideal partitioning schemes
[08:40] <nigelb> daubers: your wedding? ;)
[08:40] <kaushal> is it /boot first /home second / third swap fourth ?
[08:40] <nigelb> czajkowski: Aloha!
[08:40] <kaushal> are there help docs or wiki ?
[08:40] <daubers> nigelb: bope, a gfriends
[08:41] <nigelb> aha
[08:41] <nigelb> should be fun
[08:41] <daubers> kaushal: Thats more preference than anything else. Stuff at the start of the disk will be slightly faster (but not noticeably so)
[08:42] <kaushal> daubers: are there docs or wiki ?
[08:42] <daubers> kaushal: no idea, sorry. I tend to stick to the defaults
[09:17] <popey> bah
[09:17]  * popey pokes kaushal in the eye with a stick
[09:18] <popey> I just typed a reply to your mail, then came here and realised your question has been answered here
[09:18] <popey> asking in lots of places at once is quite a waste of peoples time
[09:19] <dwatkins> Hiya!
[09:20] <popey> lo
[09:20] <dwatkins> I shall try the latest netbook edition on my Eee later today, I hope sound works.
[09:21] <bigcalm[mobile]> Hi kids
[09:21] <dwatkins> It didn't work on Jolicloud, until I sleep the OS, which is just plain wierd..
[09:21] <dwatkins> hey bigcalm[mobile]
[09:21] <popey> \o/ Jabber
[09:22] <dwatkins> Jabber, popey?
[09:23] <bigcalm[mobile]> He wont take no jibber jabber
[09:23] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[09:23] <marsilainen> 'lo
[09:23] <dwatkins> We use Jabber at work, which is ace.
[09:24] <marsilainen> if I set rules using 'ufw', do those take effect on all network interfaces?
[09:24] <marsilainen> if I wish to have different rules on different interfaces, then do I need to use iptables directly?
[09:30] <AndChat|> Bloody sky wifi
[09:30] <AndChat|> Ackroyd, wrong Nick
[09:31] <AndChat|> And auto correct fail
[09:33]  * dwatkins wonders if 40GB per month is enough
[09:33] <bigcalm[mob]> Porn?
[09:34] <dwatkins> No, bigcalm[mob] - my other half watches a fair amount of TV online, thoough.
[09:36] <bigcalm[mob]> ;)
[09:42] <directhex> um, i can eat 40gb in one day
[09:44] <daubers> la la la la la
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> daubers: how are things in la la land? 8-)
[09:44] <daubers> Hmmm... stupid electric heaters eating 4kW :(
[09:44] <directhex> run steam. install GTA4 (15.6 gig), Aliens vs Predator (15.4 gig), and LOTRO (over 10 gig)
[09:45] <directhex> and bam
[09:45] <daubers> You're broke for the month?
[09:45] <directhex> lotro is free, i paid a fiver for gta4, and six quid for avp
[09:45] <daubers> Fair enough
[09:46]  * daubers goes to start the car and get his suit out
[09:49] <dwatkins> wierd, Karmic dropped vol_id thus breaking unetbootin. Anyone know of a workaround for this?
[09:54]  * daubers needs a decent python graphing library
[10:17] <nperry> morning o/
[10:17] <dwatkins> ahoy nperry
[10:18] <nperry> another day in work...
[10:19]  * marsilainen ponders how to remove thick ice from some steps with no appropriate implements
[10:19] <daubers> marsilainen: Kettle + water
[10:20] <marsilainen> daubers: good idea
[10:20] <nperry> marsilainen: piss on it.
[10:20] <marsilainen> my house mate just slipped on them and sliced his hand open on some metal railings next to them
[10:20] <daubers> marsilainen: And some table salt to stop it freezing again (put that on the ice after pouring the water on)
[10:20] <marsilainen> he's on his way to hospital now :/
[10:22] <dwatkins> ouch, marsilainen
[10:22] <nperry> ice is not fun :/
[10:23] <dwatkins> I cleared ice with my boots from some steps, be careful if you use the kettle that you don't end up with a thin layer of ice afterwwards
[10:23] <dwatkins> indeed, nperry - I broke my ankle slipping on ice once
[10:24]  * dwatkins uses the sourceforge version of unetbootin
[10:26]  * dwatkins notes that no-one replied from Jolicloud
[10:26] <dwatkins> Shame, their desktop works well on my tiny Eee screen
[10:33] <daubers> dwatkins: Thats why I go kettle + salt :)
[10:33] <daubers> also, car gone \o/
[10:33] <suprengr> I find the best solution to ice is putting it in a large whiskey ;)
[10:34] <daubers> suprengr: Criminal!
[10:35] <suprengr> daubers: point taken :D
[10:38] <dwatkins> daubers: not your car, I assume
[10:39] <daubers> dwatkins: It was, just managed to sell it (at last)
[10:39] <dwatkins> woohoo, daubers :)
[10:39] <daubers> Need to make a run t the post office shortly send off the bit of the whatsit to the dvla
[10:39] <dwatkins> in this weather, that's even more impressive, daubers
[10:41] <danfish> morning
[10:42]  * danfish at my wits end. Haven't been able to fly home for 4 days due to weather in UK, and now the sodding Spanish air traffic controllers have gone on strike meaning no flights :(:(:( 
[10:42] <danfish> aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
[10:46] <daubers> danfish: Go lay in the pool
[10:48] <KrimZon> i fixed the problem with cron
[10:49] <KrimZon> i gave ownership of the script to root, and it works
[10:57] <KrimZon> i've no clue why having the backup drive mounted at the time caused it to require that though
[11:00] <danfish> daubers: if only - it's only 12deg c in the pool. I'll turn blue!
[11:03] <daubers> Warmer than outside here :)
[11:07] <danfish> I know I shouldn't complain, but I'm now a tad bored, miss the kids and really need to be at work on Monday
[11:14] <brobostigon> morning all.
[11:15] <jacobw> good morning brobostigon
[11:15] <brobostigon> morning jacobw
[11:28]  * dutchie has to tidy his desk :(
[11:30] <jacobw> can you still get a dell mini 9 w/ ubuntu?
[11:37] <cridlandr> Hello
[11:37] <cridlandr> I'm trying to install Maverick for Sparc
[11:38] <cridlandr> Here is the Ubuntu URL  :  https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/sparc/downloading-files.html#where-files
[11:38] <cridlandr> The link on this page : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/installer-sparc/current/images
[11:38] <cridlandr> Is broken! :(
[11:38] <cridlandr> Where do I find the Sparc image?
[11:38] <cridlandr> Thanks
[11:39] <popey> cridlandr: we don't do sparc images anymore
[11:40] <cridlandr> :(
[11:40] <cridlandr> It says you do here : https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/sparc/downloading-files.html#where-files
[11:40] <popey> no it doesnt
[11:41] <cridlandr> Guess I'll be going to OpenSolaris then.... that's not being "done" anymore either! LOL!
[11:42] <popey> debian?
[11:42] <brobostigon> cridlandr: have you had a look at debian.
[11:42] <popey> http://www.debian.org/ports/sparc/
[11:42] <cridlandr> Yes, that was the other possibility
[11:42] <cridlandr> I just love this old hardware stuff!   Thanks all
[11:49]  * dwatkins finally gets Ubuntu Netbook Remix to boot
[11:49] <dwatkins> silly unetbootin
[11:51] <nperry> Bit of slipknot at work, never hurt anybody
[11:53] <dwatkins> That reminds me, I need some speakers at work.
[11:53] <jacobw> how do you rebuff criticism of getting people to use ubuntu?
[11:54] <jacobw> people start to think that all their computer problems are automatically your fault people you've gotten them using ubuntu
[11:55] <dwatkins> criticism of ubuntu, or criticism of computers in general, jacobw?
[11:55]  * dwatkins boots ubuntu netbook remix and finds the mouse doesn't work
[11:55] <jacobw> the only reason i do it really is because i really don't want to support people using windows
[11:55] <brobostigon> jacobw: you have to differentiate to said person where the issue lies, hw, etc.
[11:56] <brobostigon> like if the issue is with flash, it isnt ubuntu's messing up, it is adobe's,
[11:57] <jacobw> criticism of ubuntu, i.e. they can't use iTunes, presentations created in Impress don't work properly with PowerPoint
[11:57] <jacobw> i've tried that brobostigon, the belief seems to be seen as majority of people use Windows and don't have the same issues, then the majority must be right
[11:57] <brobostigon> jacobw: cant use  itunes, nothing to do with ubuntu, ask apple to make a port.
[11:58] <jacobw> ordinary people don't understand that though :(
[11:58] <jacobw> i suppose to only thing to do is to carry on regardless
[12:00] <jacobw> unfortunately, most people don't understand the aims of software freedom etc.
[12:00] <brobostigon> jacobw: i work with mind here in banbury, and have ubuntu and debian ontheir netbooks, perfect really. and no realcomplaints yet, on praise that the function is better and smoother and quicker thanwith windows.
[12:00] <jacobw> you've hit the nail on the head there though, they ALL have ubuntu on their netbooks
[12:01] <brobostigon> jacobw: and this is people  with mental and physical health difficulties.
[12:01] <jacobw> i'm reassured by that :) if you can get it to work in those situations, i'm sure i can get it to work in my situation
[12:01] <brobostigon> i spent 6 months and abit, testing this out with them first, even one girl loves using dasher,
[12:02] <brobostigon> dasher has saved us a few times, with people who need to type, but cant use a keyboard.
[12:04] <jacobw> the thing is when people start going on, you start thinking, "well, maybe i am doing something wrong in forcing my IT preferences on other people"
[12:04] <brobostigon> jacobw: this is only banbury mind, so it isnt many, it is only a few machines, but it has tool alot of time  and effort to get it right, because of where and the people that are using them.
[12:05] <jacobw> :)
[12:05] <jacobw> this is another thing, i have limited skills with ubuntu to help people out, i should put more effort in to it
[12:05] <brobostigon> i dont force anything, i just say to them, i will show you what is possible, nd you canmake youre own choice.
[12:05] <jacobw> brobostigon, that isn't really possible with relatives though
[12:06] <brobostigon> jacobw: it is, i showed my mum ubuntu and she compared it to my dads work machine with xp, guess what, she has been using ubuntu for a few  years now, without any major problems.
[12:07] <brobostigon> #mumbuntu
[12:07] <jacobw> well, in the short term, i need to place an old dell lattitude with a modern laptop
[12:08] <jacobw> i.e. with a webcam/microphone so the user can use skype
[12:09] <brobostigon> sounds fairly simple.
[12:09] <brobostigon> check the webcam with the HW database.
[12:09] <jacobw> it *should* be, but i can't find a list of ubuntu compatible laptop systems
[12:10] <jacobw> there seems to be dozens of different lists on the wiki, most of them out of date
[12:10] <brobostigon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound
[12:10] <brobostigon> that isnt it,
[12:10] <brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop
[12:11] <brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop/Reports
[12:12] <dwatkins> *sigh* my Eee 901 doesn't seem to want to make the mouse work on netbook remix
[12:12] <dwatkins> oh, I lied :D it's ok now I rebooted, just took a minute :D
[12:12] <dwatkins> now for the bit test - wifi and sound...
[12:13] <dwatkins> *big
[12:34] <jacobw> i can't believe i can't go in to a shop and buy a laptop with ubuntu in this day and age :(
[12:34] <jacobw> ridiculous
[12:35] <brobostigon> jacobw: you can get a blank mchine i do believe, and install yourself.
[12:36] <jacobw> where from brobostigon ?
[12:36] <brobostigon> http://nakedcomputers.org/
[12:36] <dwatkins> overclockers and ebuyer do barebones machines, too
[12:38] <dwatkins> ah I see, nakedcomputers is just a list
[12:39] <brobostigon> dwatkins: oh where you can buy from.
[12:39] <brobostigon> of*
[12:43] <dwatkins> indeed, brobostigon - looks quite handy
[12:43] <dwatkins> I'd like to see more such places selling bare-bones machines
[12:44] <jacobw> it seems to buying a laptop to install linux is still as difficult as it always was
[12:45] <jacobw> dell seem to have given up seen as they don't even ship the last LTS, they ship 9.10
[13:07] <dwatkins> jacobw: how about an ASUS Eee 1005-series?
[13:07] <dwatkins> They appear to be well supported by Ubuntu (and OS X)
[13:13] <jacobw> i think i've found a good bet, http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Lenovo_G550_1006557.html
[13:15] <dwatkins> Is it properly supported by Ubuntu, jacobw?
[13:15] <jacobw> as far as i can tell..
[13:19] <jacobw> it isn't easy to tell, seen as finding what wireless chipset a particular laptop uses isn't always possible
[13:26] <popey> 12:45:12 < jacobw> dell seem to have given up seen as they don't even ship the last LTS, they ship 9.10
[13:26] <popey> depends on the machine
[13:28] <jacobw> i was looking at the inspiron laptop
[13:30] <gord> generally what happens is that dell release a machine with a certain release of ubuntu, that release is customised to fit them and has to be setup in their factories, its not a simple thing to just change everything to the latest lts
[13:30] <gord> it involves lots of testing and factory stuff, is it really worth it for them?
[13:36] <jacobw> well, they do it for the Windows LTS releases, so if they were really going to support Ubuntu on their machines, they'd do it for Ubuntu too
[13:37] <gord> well no, thats not how the world works now is it
[13:37] <gord> its not a case of all or nothing
[13:38] <jacobw> i know, it just shows in my opinion that their commitment is limited
[13:39] <oly> although they may not be selling laptops with ubuntu i have to say i was exceptionally pleased with how well the 17 studio laptop works with ubuntu
[13:40] <oly> best supported laptop under ubuntu i have ever owned, everything just worked including custom function keys and duel audio outputs monitor switching etc
[13:41] <jacobw> oly, i've got one as well, it does work very well :)
[13:41] <jacobw> i've got the 1737 model
[13:41] <oly> all the bits that usually dont work, so i get the feeling they may be testing or something even if there not fully supporting it
[13:42] <gord> well, with the big popular laptops, lots of people just buying them, are testing them. so bugs get files, kernel modules get written, all that fun stuff
[13:42] <oly> not sure on the model i have all i know is its a dell studio 17 inch :p
[13:43] <oly> yeah but even with testing i find machine work but the little features dont work like multimedia keys or the function keys on laptops when used with fn
[13:43] <oly> but perhaps thats just bad luck on my part :p
[13:44] <oly> just never had a laptop where every little feature just works
[13:45] <oly> i am curious weather thats anything todo with dell though perhaps they test the hardware even if they dont ship the os
[13:46] <gord> well you can expect that their lines use the same way of doing function keys and other little features, so if just one of those laptops gets an ubuntu tested release you can expect they will all work
[13:47] <oly> still hope that we will see of the shelf setups supported a lot better though
[13:48] <oly> always nice to have some garentee the machine will work correctly with out hacking it :)
[13:48] <gord> i just randomly order hardware and laptops, always works out well for me!
[14:03] <marsilainen> what rule do I need to add to iptables to allow pings to work?
[14:10] <marsilainen> it's ok, got it now http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-iptables-9-allow-icmp-ping.html
[14:21] <danfish> can anyone recommend a SOHO Voip provider?
[14:22] <marsilainen> I think gradwell is quite popular for that isn't it?
[14:22] <marsilainen> not used myself
[14:26]  * marsilainen reboots a remote machine - hoping he hasn't locked himself out with iptables
[14:27] <marsilainen> phew
[14:31] <marsilainen> does running iptables slow down a port scan?
[14:32] <marsilainen> before iptables was running, a port scan would find the low open ports very quickly
[14:32] <marsilainen> but now it seems to take much longer
[14:32] <marsilainen> is that because the port scanner is waiting for a response each time and eventually timing out or something now that iptables is running?
[14:59] <penguin42> marsilainen: Probably depends how dumb the portscanner is, but probably yes
[15:02] <Laney> if you have your default policy set to DROP then likely yes
[15:24] <marsilainen> penguin42, Laney: thanks
[15:24] <marsilainen> I guess it's a good thing in any case
[15:25] <marsilainen> if it takes people a long time to port-scan me, then all the better
[15:40]  * dutchie survived \o/
[15:57] <marsilainen> if I buy an SSL cert, then it is just tied to the domain name right?
[15:57] <marsilainen> if I change the IP address for that domain at some point later, the cert keeps working right?
[16:02] <penguin42> yes
[16:28] <lazarus_> having issues with arch
[16:44] <popey> lazarus_: arch?
[16:44] <brobostigon> arch linux, i would presume.
[16:44] <brobostigon> the distro..
[16:45] <lazarus_> brobostigon: yes
[16:45] <popey> thats why i asked
[16:45] <popey> lazarus_: ah well :)
[16:46] <brobostigon> lazarus_: its a rolling release isnt it, like debian sid.
[16:46] <popey> there is apparently an #archlinux support channel
[16:46] <lazarus_> popey: for some reason i cant talk in there
[16:47] <popey> your nick probably needs to be registered
[16:47] <popey> and you need to be identified to services
[16:47] <popey> !register
[16:48] <lazarus_> freenode server you only need to register once right
[16:48] <popey> yes
[16:49] <lazarus_> in that case i am
[16:49] <brobostigon> are you identified with nickserv ?
[16:50] <lazarus_> how does on check?
[16:50] <lazarus_> one*
[16:50] <popey> you arent
[16:50] <popey>  /whois lazarus_
[16:50] <popey> that shows you're not
[16:50] <popey> the page i linked to tells you how to identify
[16:50] <lazarus_> hmm
[16:51] <popey>  /msg nickserv identify <password>
[16:54] <kaushal> hi
[16:54] <kaushal> I am on Ubuntu 10.10 :)
[16:55] <kaushal> Ubuntu 10.10 rocks
[16:55] <kaushal> Google desktop dont work :/
[16:55] <kaushal> I mean the short cut key CTRl-CTRL
[16:56] <lazarus_> popey: thanks that fixed it
[16:56] <popey> np lazarus_
[16:56] <kaushal> any idea ?
[16:56] <kaushal> I heard its broken in 10.04
[16:56] <kaushal> but still broken in 10.10 :/
[16:57] <lazarus_> arch liinux is a ***** at times
[16:59] <kaushal> where do i seek help for it ?
[16:59] <popey> lazarus_: the distro or the channel?
[16:59] <popey> kaushal: http://desktop.google.com/support/?hl=en
[17:00] <lazarus_> popey:  both
[17:01] <popey> heh
[17:01] <popey> you're not telling me anything I didn't already know I'm afraid
[17:01] <jacobw> i remember #debian used to be really unhelpful :(
[17:02] <lazarus_> hehe
[17:04] <lazarus_> oh wow i basically got told if i dont know what im doing then im on the wrong distro
[17:04]  * brobostigon returned
[17:04] <KrimZon> does anyone know a text editor that has a keyboard shortcut to toggle word-wrap?
[17:05] <ali1234> vi or emacs
[17:07] <KrimZon> what is it in vi?
[17:07] <ali1234> i dunno
[17:08] <brobostigon> lazarus_: a rolling release, like debian sid, can very easily break,so i wouldnt give it to someone, who didnt know how to fix it, if something did break.
[17:10] <popey> lazarus_: thats true to be fair
[17:11] <lazarus_> brobostigon: all i said to them was they asked me to find logs to which i replied im not sure where logs are kept because ive never had to view them
[17:11] <popey> lazarus_: it's designed for expert users
[17:11] <popey> also, why on earth would you want to run arch :)
[17:11] <brobostigon> lazarus_: to tell you, /var/log,
[17:11] <dutchie> KrimZon: by default, Q is mapped to gq, which is the "format" operator
[17:11] <lazarus_> thankyou now i know
[17:12] <brobostigon> lazarus_: yes, they were alittle abrupt i must abmit.
[17:12] <ali1234> popey: because people who run arch constantly go around telling people how great and easy to use arch is
[17:12] <dutchie> KrimZon: J joins lines together, dunno if there is a way to do them all in one go
[17:12] <popey> ali1234: that too
[17:12] <ali1234> gentoo users do the same thing
[17:12] <ali1234> if you go in a generic linux forum and say you use ubuntu you will get hundreds of "hurr.... gentoo is bettar" comments
[17:12] <lazarus_> popey: im looking for somthing a lil diff to ubuntu
[17:13] <popey> lazarus_: diff in what way?
[17:13] <jacobw> gentoo is a waste of human endeavour
[17:13] <dutchie> and cpu endeavour
[17:13] <popey> i know a few who like gentoo, and if they like it and it works for them, thats great
[17:13] <lazarus_> i find ubuntu to be to much of point click job done nowdays
[17:13] <brobostigon> lazarus_: have you tried debian for example ?
[17:14] <popey> lazarus_: you'd rather run out in the snow naked and beat yourself with birch twigs?
[17:14] <ali1234> jacobw: not no mention electricity
[17:14] <dutchie> hmm, my windows partition has 32M left
[17:14] <brobostigon> brb,
[17:14] <ali1234> clearly this is the reasoning behind unity as default UI
[17:15] <ali1234> ubuntu is becoming too easy to use so someone decided to make it a little bit harder to set up
[17:15] <lazarus_> and i dont like unity
[17:15] <lazarus_> hehe
[17:15] <jacobw> i like unity :)
[17:15] <ali1234> now all those gentoo fanbois have some obscure command line to type in after installation, they are sure to switch to ubuntu in droves :)
[17:18] <lazarus_> brobostigon: whats the diff between debain and ubuntu because ubuntu is based on it
[17:18] <popey> !debian
[17:18] <brobostigon> thank you, was just going to bringthat up popey .
[17:20] <jacobw> debian is the rock that ubuntu is built on
[17:21] <lazarus_> so the only thing of major is the release process??
[17:22] <jacobw> no
[17:23]  * brobostigon goes away to bang his head on a hard surface for abit.
[17:24] <lazarus_> i know im being a noob i sowwie
[17:24] <brobostigon> lazarus_: i am just stressed nd getting stress here at home.
[17:25] <dutchie> i think i need some sort of cd-r labelling system
[17:25] <ali1234> have you tried using a pen?
[17:25] <dutchie> i have 10 here which i have no idea what is on them
[17:26] <lazarus_> bugger it i might try pc linuxos
[17:26] <lazarus_> haha
[17:26] <dutchie> and the very first i pull out is a gparted one \o/
[17:27] <dutchie> hmm, it is version 3.9
[17:28] <dutchie> and the current version is 0.7.0
[17:28] <dutchie> (the first one should have been 0.3.9)
[17:28] <dutchie> ah well, it should still work
[17:33] <KrimZon> damnit, why do none of the gui editors have a keyboard shortcut to toggle word wrap
[17:33] <KrimZon> if i'm programming or looking at config files i want non-wrapped stuff, but if i'm writing notes i want it to auto wrap
[17:34] <KrimZon> and there's usually no way to tell the file types apart
[17:35] <ali1234> sure there is
[17:35] <ali1234> programming languages always use a specific filename extension
[17:35] <KrimZon> well, no way to get the editors to detect this
[17:36] <ali1234> besides, you should not be going past 80 characters anyway, so word wrap will not apply
[17:36] <KrimZon> depends on the coding style guide
[17:36] <ali1234> (or lack of)
[17:36] <KrimZon> most coding is in an ide, but i still do php and other random scripting languages in ordinary text editors
[17:37] <ali1234> so what?
[17:39] <KrimZon> so i'd quite like to finally find a decent text editor
[17:44] <ali1234> gedit has everything you need
[17:44] <KrimZon> does it have a keyboard shortcut to toggle word wrap?
[17:45] <ali1234> no but it has a right margin marker, so you will know to stop writing on the current line
[17:45] <KrimZon> that's all fine and good until i want the window smaller than 80 characters and my notes to still be readable
[17:46] <ali1234> why don't you just turn on word wrapping and leave it on always?
[17:46] <KrimZon> because when I code in it the code will wrap
[17:47] <ali1234> then your code is incorrectly formatted to begin with
[17:47] <KrimZon> no it's not
[17:49] <KrimZon> the window may be narrower than the style's margin in order to view it side by side with something else
[17:50] <ali1234> how can you "view" it if half the lines are off the left side of the screen?
[17:50] <KrimZon> usually it's only a few lines that go particularly wide
[17:51] <ali1234> and why is it such a problem if these lines are wrapped?
[17:51] <KrimZon> they change the vertical spacing of the code
[17:51] <ali1234> why don't you just use diff?
[17:51] <KrimZon> cause i'm not comparing
[17:54] <suprengr> krimzon: use a smaller font?
[17:54] <KrimZon> that would hurt my eyes eventually
[17:55] <suprengr> hmmm... glasses?
[17:55] <suprengr> ;)
[17:56] <KrimZon> i have glasses, probably from having the font too small to begin with
[17:56] <suprengr> :D
[17:56] <KrimZon> probably from before i started using linux with its actually nice font rendering
[17:57]  * Azelphur prepares for hate
[17:57] <Azelphur> I'm doing 8px on 1920x1200
[17:58] <suprengr> seriously though...  [from 1 specs wearer to another] i just got myself a larger screen and set resoloution to a comfortable level
[17:58] <KrimZon> i'm feeling the very beginning of a headache just thinking about that
[17:58] <KrimZon> hmm
[17:58] <suprengr> booyah!
[17:59] <KrimZon> i'm gonna write my own text editor
[17:59] <suprengr> admirable
[17:59] <KrimZon> then the linux community gets another text editor out of it
[17:59] <KrimZon> ktute - krimzon's totally useless text editor
[18:01] <marsilainen> what is the correct way to edit the system motd message?
[18:01] <marsilainen> if I edit /etc/motd it just seems to get overwritten again when someone logs in
[18:14] <KrimZon> or... maybe what I want is a general note-writing tool, and an editor configured for php/xml/js/css and some other stuff
[18:20] <czajkowski> aloha
[18:21] <brobostigon> evening czajkowski
[18:30] <KrimZon> for some reason gnome is not remembering file type associations
[18:40] <suprengr> so being my 1st weekend off in yonks i fancied some fun... been trying to get terminal to do 'cowsay' + motd on start... failed miserably
[18:40] <popey> :)
[18:41] <suprengr> [any ideas?]
[18:41] <jacobw> is that a weekend of fun?!
[18:42] <suprengr> well... it IS cold out there... and need to be in front of screen for sis [who hopefully is now installing Ubuntu]
[18:43] <suprengr> ...that's MY excuse and I'm sticking to it ;)
[18:48] <jacobw> uh huh :)
[18:50] <jacobw> i'm 99% sure it can be done
[18:50] <jacobw> can't be done even
[18:51] <suprengr> ...I am currently more than ready to believe that
[18:51]  * suprengr sighs
[18:52] <gord> erm
[18:52] <DanielRM> The nice thing about Facebook is that no-one ever forgets your birthday. :-/
[18:52] <DanielRM> Evening all, BTW.
[18:52] <gord> why don't you just replace motd with the output of cowsay < /etc/motd ?
[18:52] <czajkowski> ello gord
[18:54] <gord> hellos
[18:54] <DanielRM> gord: allo.
[18:56] <suprengr> gord: /etc/motd = no such fod
[18:56] <suprengr> [file or directory]
[18:56] <gord> suprengr, then you have a non standard system
[18:57] <gord> ubuntu has a default motd that gets updated with package information and such
[18:57] <suprengr> not surprised... I'm not even from this planet!
[18:58] <suprengr> ...checked in packages & only motd thaat appears is motd-update
[18:58] <suprengr> [not installed]
[18:58] <exobuzz> /etc/motd should be a symlink to /var/run/motd
[18:58] <exobuzz> at least with a standard install..
[18:59] <suprengr> I honestly thought this was a standard install up till now and have no other reason to think otherwise
[18:59] <exobuzz> /var/run/motd is automatically generated. i guess you can make your own motd anyway if you like but you can also drop scripts in /etc/update-motd.d
[19:00] <exobuzz> which will be used to create the /var/run/motd
[19:02] <exobuzz> in my case i added a 60-showdisktemps script so the output when i login is like http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/motd
[19:02] <exobuzz> sorry if all this is already known/obvious :)
[19:03] <penguin42> exobuzz: Is that just hdparm something?
[19:03] <exobuzz> its a little script i made. one sec i can post it
[19:03] <suprengr> just re-checked - no /etc/motd, no /var/run/motd
[19:04] <penguin42> no /etc/motd?!
[19:04] <suprengr> time to install motd-update ?
[19:04] <exobuzz> pam_motd handles this in libpam-modules in latest ubuntu. in earlier ones it was handled by package update-motd
[19:05] <gord> sweet, found the menu to my local chinese place. looks like i'm not gonna starve after all
[19:05] <suprengr> concur, that's what synaptic said
[19:06] <exobuzz> penguin42, http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/disktemps takes a param of "show, check or both". check is something that i run every 10 mins, and if a disk reaches  set temp, i get an email and machine is shutdown for safety
[19:06] <exobuzz> in case of fan failure..
[19:06] <exobuzz> show will just output the temps of all disks in the system
[19:07] <suprengr> hang on motd IS found is found in /etc "link broken" !!!
[19:07] <exobuzz> suprengr, which version of ubuntu ?
[19:08] <suprengr> 10.04
[19:08] <jacobw> i'm disappointed that lubotu doesn't do cowsay
[19:08] <exobuzz> do you have update-motd installed ?
[19:08] <exobuzz> i think 10.04 still uses that..
[19:09] <suprengr> update-motd not installed
[19:09] <exobuzz> thats the problem then
[19:09] <exobuzz> install that :)
[19:09] <suprengr> yep.. that's what I was beginning to think
[19:09] <exobuzz> or check the description for it .. maek sure it doesnt say "The functionality formerly provided by this package is now integrated into pam_motd, in libpam-modules."
[19:10] <exobuzz> at some point. maverick or possibly before. this was deprecated for doing the stuff as a pam module
[19:10]  * suprengr goes off to sudo apt-get etc
[19:10] <exobuzz> if it doesnt say that, then you need it :)
[19:11] <suprengr> the description does asay that
[19:11] <exobuzz> aah. then. you dont want it hmm
[19:12] <exobuzz> and you have libpam-modules i guess installed.
[19:12] <suprengr> no probs... I applied the brakes in time
[19:12] <exobuzz> check you have /lib/security/pam_motd.so
[19:12] <exobuzz> when you login the /var/run/motd should be generated
[19:13] <suprengr> pam_motd.so is there
[19:13] <exobuzz> the module should be referenced in /etc/pam.d/login and /etc/pam.d/sshd also
[19:16] <suprengr> session optional in pam.d/login... pam.d/sshd does not exist!
[19:17] <wintellect> right - biting the bullet and daring to upgrade 8.04 - 10.04.01
[19:17] <exobuzz> sshd is for remote ssh access. if you dont use that you wont have it
[19:18] <suprengr> that's what I was hoping you'd say ;)
[19:18] <suprengr> so why no motd??? me confused
[19:18] <exobuzz> if you sudo -s, then run run-parts --lsbsysinit /etc/update-motd.d > /var/run/motd
[19:18] <exobuzz> should generate it. but this should happen automatically when you login
[19:19] <jussi> suprengr: bbc have reruns of motd somewhere, Im sure you could get one :P :P
[19:20] <suprengr> exobuzz: bash: /var/run/motd: Permission denied
[19:21] <suprengr> jussi ?
[19:21] <exobuzz> sudo bash -c "run-parts --lsbsysinit /etc/update-motd.d > /var/run/motd"
[19:21] <exobuzz> needs to be done as root . the pipe is tricky from sudo
[19:21] <exobuzz> that should work though
[19:21] <jussi> suprengr: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/match_of_the_day/default.stm
[19:22] <jussi> :P
[19:22] <exobuzz> match of the day joke :)
[19:22] <suprengr> exobuzz: something happened...
[19:22] <suprengr> jussi: cool - will have a look [in a mo]
[19:22] <exobuzz> suprengr, well. you probabyl have a motd now. but i havnt solved the problem of it not being automatically created..
[19:23] <suprengr> exobuzz: yeh but you got me further than I was getting lol
[19:24] <suprengr> jussi: good sense of humour ;D
[19:24] <zleap> Hello
[19:25] <suprengr> exobuzz: time to restart & see methinks
[19:25] <suprengr> ...& thanks a mil
[19:25] <exobuzz> np.
[19:29] <Venko> Anyone here savy with SVN or general version control and happy to help me with it a bit? I'm confused as to what to do
[19:30] <dutchie> hrm
[19:30] <dutchie> that could have gone better
[19:31] <exobuzz> Venko, can try :)
[19:31] <exobuzz> dutchie, what's that ?
[19:32] <Venko> I've been experimenting with some ideas and created various files of code in /trunk and and would now like to work on a proper prototype with what I've discovered/decided. So what do I do now? I shouldn't go erasing everything in trunk
[19:33] <dutchie> decided that i needed more space on my vista partition, so rebooted into a gparted live cd to shuffle around the partitions
[19:33] <dutchie> now nothing boots :(
[19:33] <exobuzz> well. if you have just been testing, you probably want to make a new repository. so long as there isnt any important history
[19:33] <exobuzz> Venko, or you mean you have a history and you did some new code and committed in trunk ?
[19:33] <exobuzz> or its uncommitted ?
[19:34] <Venko> Am I meant to somehow move trunk's contents to a directory in branches and call it /old or something?
[19:34] <exobuzz> normally for test stuff i would work on a branch.
[19:34] <Venko> I don't have another repository. I'm doing my university project (third year)
[19:34] <exobuzz> you are using svn btw or git ?
[19:34] <Venko> I've been loving being able to undo/redo things and compare with SVN so far but no idea what to do here
[19:34] <Venko> exobuzz: SVN
[19:35] <exobuzz> in svn. a branch is just a copy. even a tag is a copy only that you dont change stuff. so, you can always copy trunk to a branch and then do more stuff on it. and merge back and forth
[19:35] <exobuzz> it sounds like you might benefit from reading some svn concept stuff
[19:35] <exobuzz> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ is pretty decent
[19:36] <Venko> Well ultimately all I want is to be able to grab and look at the old experimentation stuff when I'm building this prototype
[19:37] <exobuzz> copy the experimentation stuff to a branch, and perhaps roll the trunk back if you have stuff committed you dont want
[19:37] <exobuzz> to roll back you do a reverse merge with svn.
[19:38] <Venko> It looks like tag might be what I want actually
[19:38] <Venko> I could just move it to /tags and call it 'pre-prototype1' or something
[19:38] <exobuzz> a tag should be a static thing like a bookmark. so if you just want to bookmark how something was. that would work fine. a tag can be thought of as a name for a specific revision
[19:38] <exobuzz> you can always check out any revision number from an svn source tree of course.
[19:39] <exobuzz> conceptually. although tags and branches are both copies in svn, a tag is something you dont change, and a branch is something you work on/commit to
[19:39] <Venko> Yeah, I think that tag is exactly what I'm after
[19:39] <Venko> Does it keep the revision history in tags?
[19:40] <Venko> I'm probably going to delete half of the files completely in branch after
[19:40] <Laney> x factor \m/ >_< \m/
[19:40] <exobuzz> you have the history yeh. ideally it sounds like what you should have done was to create a branch earlier before you did the experimental stuff, and then kept it on its own branch
[19:41] <exobuzz> so you dont have to undo a bunch of stuff on trunk
[19:41] <Azelphur> haha, just took down a phishing website :)
[19:41] <Venko> Yeah, I didn't understand what was what at the start and saw the name trunk so it seemed like the place to put everything
[19:42] <Venko> SVN has been really useful so far anyway :)
[19:42] <exobuzz> dutchie, sorry missed your message. oops. :/ boot loader related or hosed partitions ?
[19:42] <Azelphur> one of my friends slipped up and didn't notice the URL bar and got suckered by it, so I just ran some python from home, my VPS and my dedi using urllib that posted thousands of fake account details to it :D
[19:42] <exobuzz> Venko, good to use source control for sure. i couldnt live without it
[19:42] <Azelphur> It went 404 after I got about 10k records in >:)
[19:43] <exobuzz> Azelphur, what if they turn a botnet to attack your ip now ? :)
[19:43] <Azelphur> *shrug* VPS is for giggles now as I have the dedi, dedi has hardware DDoS protection and my home IP is easily changable (I have a block of 8)
[19:44] <exobuzz> aah ok.. anyway. nice.. you only got another million to do .. ;-)
[19:44] <Azelphur> haha
[19:44] <Azelphur> I do it every time I come across one, would be cool to have a botnet for this tbh then even logging IP addresses wouldn't help
[19:44] <Azelphur> would be so cool to just take them all out with thousands of fake accounts
[19:45] <exobuzz> i got a call earlier from an indian trying to get me to install some remote control software on my pc, so they could infect it or charge me for something.. i told em it doesnt work. and we went though hardware etc. i told em i have a commodore 64. and they were trying to get information about it
[19:45] <Azelphur> exobuzz: LOL
[19:45] <ali1234> they told me my computer would "go for a toss" if i didn't install their thing
[19:45] <exobuzz> hehe
[19:47] <exobuzz> ive had a few of these calls. one of em got cross with me for wasting his time. i just laughed. although its quite a serious matter really.. i mean i have no idea what they would have done had they gotten access to a pc.
[19:47] <exobuzz> and im pretty sure some people must be duped by them
[19:47] <ali1234> they don't actually want access
[19:47] <Azelphur> exobuzz: It'd be funny to let them take over a walled VM and then use it to mess with them :D
[19:47] <exobuzz> the problem with computers. is that they dont boot up with a READY> prompt and force you to read the manual
[19:47] <Azelphur> oh yea, they want money :P
[19:47] <ali1234> if you let them on, they say "oh we can fix it for $50"
[19:47] <penguin42> exobuzz: Wow, hadn't actually heard about any of those - it's an interesting alternative to infected web pages etc
[19:47] <exobuzz> Azelphur, yeh good idea!
[19:47] <ali1234> then they ask for CC number
[19:48] <penguin42> exobuzz: If they're doing it by phone I expect that we'll see posted stuff at some point imitating a bank etc
[19:49] <exobuzz> i thought the person calling me earlier might have been quite young.. sounded young anyway. hope i wasnt too mean and upset them. im sure they just need the money and dont understand what they are doing is wrong.. or not.
[19:50] <Darael> My response tends to be less witty.  "I'm not even running Windows, so I know you aren't from Microsoft (which is what they usually claim).  So who are you really?".  They do tend to hang up quite fast.
[19:50]  * penguin42 wonders if you could trick them into going to a site to track them
[19:51] <penguin42> e.g. something like 'well I tried to do what you said but I got this error, here look at this....'
[19:52] <exobuzz> heh
[19:52] <Darael> Not a bad idea, actually.
[19:52] <exobuzz> probably would work
[20:00] <dutchie> :(
[20:01] <dutchie> stupid broken boot
[20:05] <KrimZon> i had one of those type of calls and they wanted me to install teamviewer
[20:05] <penguin42> dutchie: What's it done to you?
[20:05] <dutchie> resized partitions and now it panics on boot
[20:06] <penguin42> oh dear
[20:06] <penguin42> what's the panic - is it just a can't mount root filesystem one?
[20:07] <dutchie> yeah
[20:11] <dutchie> the partition mounts ok in a live session
[20:12] <dutchie> can uuids change if i resize?
[20:12] <dutchie> didn't think so
[20:12] <dutchie> but i suppose it would exlpain it
[20:13] <dutchie> ah, no it hasn't
[20:19] <AlanBell> evening
[20:20]  * AlanBell is having curry in farnham
[20:20] <brobostigon> evening AlanBell
[20:20] <penguin42> and talking to us?
[20:20]  * AlanBell  is a bit drunk for jalf past ight
[20:21] <brobostigon> :)
[20:21]  * brobostigon gets AlanBell a glass of water
[20:22]  * AlanBell drinks a pinr of mongoose
[20:27] <mattt> AlanBell: step away from the 'puter
[20:30] <Nafallo> see... that's why I try and keep a long password. if I can type it while drink, I'm still sober enough to operate a computer :-)
[20:30] <Nafallo> s/drink/drunk/
[20:32] <brobostigon> hence the gesture lock on android, if you are too drunk and the gesture wrong, then you probebly shouldnt use your mobile.
[20:36] <popey> evening
[20:36] <brobostigon> evening popey
[20:37] <Pendulum> hiya popey
[20:37] <AlanBell> o/ Pendulum
[20:38] <Pendulum> hi AlanBell
[20:38] <AlanBell> o/ popey too
[20:38] <Venko> OK so I've saved my experimentational stuff as a tag in SVN. Now should I create a branch called 'prototype1-dev' then work there? I'm confused as to what branch is even used for
[20:39] <penguin42> Venko: It's so you can separate versions you are working on from the main unaltered one, or even multiple sets of separate work on the same project
[20:40] <Venko> Well the experimental code and stuff is tag'd now. It's not exactly a main version of the code and I don't really have one yet
[20:40] <Venko> That's the point in putting everything I've got together into a first prototype first. So once that's made would prototype-1 be moved to trunk and then prototype-2 be a branch?
[20:41] <penguin42> Venko: If you've just got one set of stuff you're working on branches don't help much
[20:50] <MooDoo> hello all
[20:50] <popey> lo
[20:50] <brobostigon> evening MooDoo
[20:50] <MooDoo> :)
[20:50] <brobostigon> :)
[20:51] <MooDoo> how is everyone this evening?
[20:52] <popey> missing out on a night of beer with friends :(
[20:52] <brobostigon> MooDoo: my  hip and back hurt, and a headache, how about you?
[20:53] <dutchie> trying to work out why my laptop won't boot :(
[20:53] <popey> dutchie: did you squirt washing up liquid in the slot?
[20:53] <popey> good to keep it clean
[20:53] <dutchie> no, i resized the partitions
[20:53] <popey> pfft
[20:53] <MooDoo> dutchie, just has to fix a acer aspire one with a boot issue !
[20:54] <dutchie> i did blow through the air vent earlier
[20:54] <MooDoo> ended up flashing the bios from USB
[20:54] <dutchie> a concerning amount of dust came out
[20:54] <popey> maybe thats where you went wrong
[20:54] <popey> do you have any washing up liquid handy?
[20:55] <dutchie> no
[20:59] <gord> if you can't find washing up liquid, i hear that pressing soap into the air vents, pouring in hot water and swishing it around works just as well
[21:00] <dutchie> will that help linux mount my root partition?
[21:01] <gord> it used to be that twitter spammers would follow me and 10,000 other people, but only have 300 or so followers back, but these days they have almost the same amount of people following them back as they do following. which leads me to believe that basically the twitter spammers are all following each other now
[21:01] <wintellect> AWESOME - upgrade successful 8.04 now "Description: Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS"   :D
[21:08] <shauno> that doesn't sound improbable gord
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> gord: I just report them as spammers, never see them again :)
[21:42] <gord> i used to report them as spammers, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference honestly
[21:47] <czajkowski> dear internet please behave or feel my wrath!
[21:47] <gord> dear internet, you better do what she says, you wouldn't like her when she's angry!
[21:48] <czajkowski> gord: see you know this! and I'm nice to you
[22:04] <MooDoo> czajkowski, not nice to me :p
[22:10] <cprofitt> popey: answered you on Free Trader
[22:10] <popey> so i see
[22:11] <cprofitt> there were no issues I was aware of...
[22:11] <popey> seems a bit odd to title the post UDS: Anti-Harrassment Policy
[22:11] <czajkowski> MooDoo: :I am!
[22:11] <popey> really gives the impression that there's an issue at ubuntu summits
[22:11] <czajkowski> :(
[22:11] <AlanBell> whut
[22:11] <cprofitt> and the thread I responded to was Re: Improving Diversity at UDS
[22:11] <popey> and I don't recall seeing an issue, but of course I don't see that I'm the kind of person who would
[22:11] <cprofitt> I will change the title... perhaps that will help with the impression
[22:12] <cprofitt> because I do not want people to have the wrong impression
[22:12] <popey> up to you
[22:12] <cprofitt> thanks for letting me know that is how you took it...
[22:12] <popey> just wanted you to know
[22:12] <MooDoo> czajkowski, i know you are, just teasing x
[22:13] <Pendulum> popey: part of the background was that there was a request for a policy on how UDS would respond to a complaint of harrassment, etc.
[22:13] <popey> sure Pendulum I get that
[22:13] <exobuzz> Venko, late reply, but do think the source control concept stuff and lots of other stuff in the svn book are well worth a read.  certainly i learnt a ton from that book (and other sources too)
[22:13] <popey> but the post doesn't explictly say what any issues are or where they are
[22:13] <popey> just that UDS is mentioned
[22:13] <Pendulum> ah, okay
[22:13] <czajkowski> Pendulum: aye but I'm seeing that a lot at USA conferences and not in EU, but the title assumes that similar issues happen at UDS
[22:13] <popey> no other events are mentioned
[22:13] <popey> no issues specified
[22:13] <popey> which really casts a shadow over UDS IMO
[22:14]  * czajkowski agrees 
[22:14] <popey> IMHO
[22:14] <Pendulum> tbh, I'm not aware of any issues at UDS (well, other than minor ones that were uncomfortable, but not harrassment)
[22:14] <cprofitt> the title assumes nothing - the reader assumes something
[22:15] <Pendulum> but I believe it was suggested that it would make UDS seem more friendly to women and they might be more willing to attend if there was an anti-harrassment policy in place
[22:15] <czajkowski> cprofitt: the title sujects a lot
[22:15] <cprofitt> however it should be considered when writing a title that being unclear can lead to misinterpretation
[22:15] <popey> cprofitt: your title mentions UDS, you outline that you're disgusted by what you have read
[22:15] <popey> cprofitt: how can someone _not_ make that connection?
[22:15] <Pendulum> cprofitt: the title does make it sound like you're talking about things that happened at UDS
[22:17] <Pendulum> I think you need to specify in there that the policies and associated stories you've been reading aren't from UDS
[22:17] <Pendulum> unless they all are, but if they all are, I'm a bit surprised that I've not heard them
[22:17] <popey> there's a _vast_ number of people who read planet Ubuntu, and IMO the majority of them won't have a clue about the backstory, but will probably have heard about various issues at events through reading other blog posts.
[22:17] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:19] <popey> AlanBell: how was the curry?
[22:20] <cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/
[22:20] <cprofitt> re-worded and re-titled
[22:20] <cprofitt> I think it takes in to account the issues raised and reflects more accurately what I wanted to communicate
[22:23] <cprofitt> thanks for everyone's input... it helps to make sure the communication is received as intended
[22:23] <cprofitt> does that look better?
[22:23] <popey> cprofitt: I'm certainly interested to see the outcome of this!
[22:23] <popey> (as in, what recommendations there are for UDS)
[22:24] <popey> [Not that I'm aware of issues at UDS, as I mentioned]
[22:24] <cprofitt> popey: I will be sending the draft to the CC
[22:24] <czajkowski> yes I had thought it was to be woreded internally first via jon and the CC
[22:24] <czajkowski> going by a mailing thread we're on
[22:24] <cprofitt> popey: the sense I got was that it was to encourage particpation and not in response to actual events.
[22:24] <Pendulum> popey: i've not had harrassment. i've gotten stupid comments like when I was talking to another woman at the last UDS someone came up and said "two women talking, can't be good."
[22:25] <cprofitt> czajkowski: yes -- the draft will go to jono then I assume to the entire CC
[22:25] <czajkowski> Pendulum: I'd hear that any event or any gathering
[22:25] <czajkowski> cprofitt: yes that was what was agreed.
[22:25] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I've only really heard it at things like tech events. I'm not really a fan of it, but it's not harrassment, just stupidity
[22:25] <czajkowski> cprofitt: but the blog post didnt really relfect that
[22:26] <czajkowski> Pendulum: possibly an irish thing heard it since I was a kid with my granny and old folks
[22:27] <cprofitt> czajkowski: what do suggest in that regard?
[22:27] <Pendulum> czajkowski: maybe. not something you hear in the US generally.
[22:27] <cprofitt> I could add 'draft' or specify the process for approval
[22:29] <czajkowski> Pendulum: kinda like anti harassment policies not something we hear over here :)
[22:30] <cprofitt> czajkowski: the US, to me, seems more litagous
[22:30] <czajkowski> cprofitt: Ubuntu isn't USA
[22:30] <cprofitt> hence policies seem to litter the area in which common sense should play
[22:30] <cprofitt> Obviously czajkowski
[22:30] <Pendulum> czajkowski: fair enough. although I do actually think having a policy in place is a good idea. it gives you something to work with if there is ever a problem
[22:31] <cprofitt> Ubuntu is a community that includes the US
[22:31] <cprofitt> Actually let me take that back
[22:31] <cprofitt> Ubuntu is no made up on countries... just people
[22:32] <Nafallo> (and computers)
[22:32] <popey> and ponies!
[22:32] <popey> dont forget the ponies!
[22:32] <cprofitt> people of varied backgrounds... backgrounds we should all respect
[22:32] <Nafallo> popey: step away from my server :-)
[22:32] <popey> heh
[22:32] <cprofitt> ponies... I thought we only allowed Unicorns
[22:32] <czajkowski> popey: went to basingstoke today, very busy place!
[22:33] <popey> "Basingrad" as we call it
[22:33] <czajkowski> why ?
[22:33] <popey> It's a hole.
[22:33] <cprofitt> in the states we call those place 'dives'
[22:33] <czajkowski> ok, well a lot bigger than Aldershot :)
[22:33] <Nafallo> hmm. which device was unicorn again... I bet it was my work laptop while I worked at UltraSpeed :-P
[22:33] <cprofitt> Nafallo: lol
[22:34] <cprofitt> I have been using the names of Finnish deities recently to name by servers... we used up all the muppets and were getting to obscure with Lord of the Rings characters
[22:34]  * czajkowski looks at her new Ubuntu bag, it's oranged in the lining :D 
[22:34]  * Nafallo have used his magicalforest theme for at least 7-8 years now :-)
[22:34] <czajkowski> *orange
[22:34] <cprofitt> czajkowski: I want one of those Ogio bags... but have not made the leap yet
[22:34] <cprofitt> is it nice?
[22:35] <czajkowski> not sure why they went with black and orange
[22:35] <czajkowski> cprofitt: same as my last one, yes
[22:35] <popey> which one cprofitt ?
[22:35] <cprofitt> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=774
[22:35] <popey> yeah, thats the one I want
[22:36] <popey> i have the old brown over the shoulder one
[22:36] <cprofitt> I have a Targus right now... but I like the idea of the side pouch for the laptop
[22:36] <popey> saw someone at a conf with that one, and its really nice
[22:36] <cprofitt> yeah it looks sweet... I just have to get through the holidays
[22:36] <czajkowski> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=766
[22:36] <cprofitt> and finish paying off the kids beds... and the repair on my wife's car
[22:37] <czajkowski> my new bag :D
[22:37] <Nafallo> hmm. I want another netbook to swap out my work laptop and a smaller bag :-P
[22:37] <cprofitt> Nafallo: been thinking of doing that too... but Netbooks are still to small for me...
[22:37] <cprofitt> been thinking about a 12.x" laptop and a desktop
[22:37] <DanteAshton> Hey folks; anyone use Empathy to get on IRC?
[22:38] <cprofitt> the only issue is when I run demos I need a bit more power
[22:38] <Nafallo> cprofitt: I've got an HP Mini 210 that I use for home stuff, and it's the best buy ever, more or less.
[22:38] <cprofitt> Nafallo: nice... I wasn't sure about the HPs
[22:38] <Nafallo> that said. all I need is firefox, thunderbird, banshee and a fullscreen terminator or four.
[22:40] <cprofitt> I run Vbox for some demos
[22:41] <Nafallo> ah. yeah. the atoms don't do that I don't think.
[22:41] <Nafallo> not sure though.
[22:41] <cprofitt> czajkowski: is this better -- http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/
[22:41] <Nafallo> INFO: Your CPU does not support KVM extensions
[22:41] <Nafallo> KVM acceleration can NOT be used
[22:41] <exobuzz> cprofitt, demos as in scene demos ?
[22:41] <Nafallo> now I'm sure!
[22:41] <cprofitt> exobuzz: no,... some times I will demo installing Ubuntu or adding software... and I like to do that in a fullscreen Vbox
[22:42] <exobuzz> aah i see
[22:42] <cprofitt> when adding software I like to allow people to choose... and do not like messing up my own workspace... so VBox works well
[22:42] <cprofitt> I did a hands-on lab for K-12 educators like that.
[22:42] <exobuzz> i use vbox for lots of stuff.. very useful
[22:43] <exobuzz> setting up test environments for stuff, and using microsoft video studio.. (sorry)
[22:43] <exobuzz> visual even
[22:43] <cprofitt> no need to be sorry... visual studio is a great productivity tool for developers
[22:43] <cprofitt> I miss it
[22:44] <exobuzz> yeh its quite ok. although im using an old version
[22:49] <cprofitt> exobuzz: c#?
[22:53] <exobuzz> c++
[22:53] <exobuzz> im not very good at it though :)
[22:53] <exobuzz> i do some work on xbox media center.
[22:54] <cprofitt> I am trying Python currently... with three kids it makes it difficult
[22:54] <cprofitt> I can barely write a well thought out blog post... so programming ... well... its not easy
[22:54] <exobuzz> heh.. ive done a little python. just plugin stuff.. quite like it.. 3 kids eh. youve been busy :)
[22:54] <cprofitt> 3, 5, 10
[22:54] <exobuzz> aah. so you must be a pro now..
[22:55] <cprofitt> the 10 year old did Robotics this fall and is doing a science camp and Oddessey of the mind
[22:55] <cprofitt> so she has us running a bit
[22:55] <cprofitt> pro... no... just doing my best
[22:55] <exobuzz> im just a learner.. little girl shes 20 months or so
[22:55] <cprofitt> and making mistakes daily
[22:55] <cprofitt> congrats
[22:55] <cprofitt> I have two girls and a boy
[22:56] <exobuzz> nice :-)
[22:56] <exobuzz> im not sure i could handle 3. heh
[22:56] <exobuzz> maybe in a few years..
[22:57] <exobuzz> so, have you built a robot
[22:59] <cprofitt> exobuzz: its a Lego NXT we worked on
[22:59] <cprofitt> but we did build a mouse trap car together
[22:59] <cprofitt> she is very in to science and math
[22:59] <exobuzz> aah.. i gotta get back into the lego stuff. ive seen some amazing things on youtube. its come a long way since i last used it
[23:00] <exobuzz> entire lego factories made out of lego etc
[23:00] <cprofitt> yeah... the base program is Windows/OS X only though... which bothered me
[23:00] <exobuzz> rubiks cube solver robot thing.. and lots of others. i think i lost an entire day looking at lego stuff
[23:00] <exobuzz> virtualbox again? :)
[23:00] <cprofitt> yeah... color sorter, rubic cube solver... those are fun
[23:00] <cprofitt> yes... I used Vbox
[23:01] <exobuzz> i want a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms_NXT now..
[23:02] <cprofitt> yeah... I am considering getting one of those this year for the kids to play with
[23:02] <cprofitt> they are on version 2.0 now I think
[23:02] <cprofitt> http://www.amazon.com/Lego-4544091-LEGO-Mindstorms-NXT/dp/B001USHRYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291503763&sr=8-1
[23:02] <cprofitt> not a bad price either
[23:03] <exobuzz> £200..
[23:03]  * exobuzz is tempted..
[23:04]  * exobuzz should wait until kid is old enough perhaps.. and not buy things for himself.
[23:04] <cprofitt> lol
[23:04] <cprofitt> I agree...
[23:04] <cprofitt> but... once that happens... you will get nothing for yourself
[23:04] <exobuzz> :)
[23:04] <cprofitt> it just will not happen
[23:05] <exobuzz> ive got everything i need now. got a synthesizer this year. thats everything. spectrum, c64, amiga .. just need food and water now.
[23:05] <exobuzz> and electricity
[23:06] <exobuzz> im quite looking forward to when natalie is old enough for toys i will like too.. then again, she might end up wanting only dolls and stuff. i do intend to try and get her on the lego though
[23:07] <exobuzz> currently. its teddies and dolls.. although the computers and keyboard do well
[23:08] <exobuzz> your kids like computer games? (im sure thats a daft question really)
[23:14] <cprofitt> my kids enjoy computer games... each got their own computer at 3
[23:15] <cprofitt> the youngest, still 3, currently enjoys playing computer games, but not as much as dolls and dressing up
[23:15] <exobuzz> heh.. did you start em on 8bit ?
[23:15] <cprofitt> she changes he clothes multiple times... and has 'style' or so she tells me
[23:15] <cprofitt> no -- they all run Ubuntu 10.04 currently
[23:15] <cprofitt> with Nvidia graphics cards and at least 2GB of ram
[23:15] <exobuzz> aah.. you are raising a bunch of kernel hackers eh
[23:15] <cprofitt> I can only dream
[23:16] <cprofitt> popey: this better
[23:16] <cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/uds-anti-harrassment-policy/#respond
[23:16] <cprofitt> I think that works a bit better... sorry for my rushed job earlier
[23:17] <cprofitt> exobuzz: gotta order and retrieve sustanance now
[23:17] <exobuzz> enjoy
[23:17] <exobuzz> thanks for the chat
[23:17] <cprofitt> you are welcome
[23:19] <cprofitt> I have 20 minutes before I have to go pickup food...
[23:19] <cprofitt> getting Steak Subs, chicken fingers, and meatball sub
[23:19] <cprofitt> yum, yum
[23:23] <exobuzz> i bought 5 donuts, and 4 danish pastries earleir from the shop as they were reduced to 20p
[23:24] <cprofitt> nice
[23:24] <exobuzz> my waist will not be reduced.
[23:24] <cprofitt> those sound good... and as my waist can attest I would have eaten them all too
[23:24] <exobuzz> :)
[23:26] <cprofitt> ok... better get ready to go pickup dinner...
[23:27] <cprofitt> good talking with you exobuzz
[23:27] <exobuzz> cheers!
[23:27] <cprofitt> keep me posted on your little one...
[23:27] <cprofitt> oh... and every age is the worst and the best
[23:27] <cprofitt> :-)
[23:27] <exobuzz> hehe
[23:27] <cprofitt> bbl
[23:38] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.