=== j_ is now known as Moschops [00:55] anyone know what protocol pop3 / imap is? [00:56] picking from :: "ip","icmp","ggp","tcp", "egp","pup","udp","hmp","xns-idp", "rdp","rvd" [01:05] dogmatic69: tcp [01:05] cool, thanks [01:06] would have been my first guess as its the most common that i know of :P [01:06] haha [01:06] with ip and udp a close second [01:06] dogmatic69: that's a weird list though because it contains some stuff that's encapsulated by other stuff [01:06] the rest i have not even heard of :/ [01:06] like rdp, remote desktop protocol, is a TCP connection [01:07] so it's kinda like having the same thing in the list twice :S [01:07] maybe its like a more specific type [01:07] I guess :p [01:07] like you get "cars" can you get "sports cars" [01:07] there are 3 major types that I know of though, TCP UDP and IMCP [01:07] :) [01:08] well im sure they all branch from one main one (tcp maybe) [01:08] each with their own little annoyance just to make development easy [01:08] I think UDP would be the one main, but I'm not sure [01:09] havn't gone to deep into the history of it [01:09] you can't use TCP for anything that requires super low latency so UDP is still heavily used [01:09] i figured out UDP because of torrents (about 5 years ago) [01:09] hehe [01:09] i know about tcp/ip from like 1996/97 [01:10] UDP is a stateless connection, you send your data off into the ethos with no guarentee that it'll arrive in the order you sent it (or at all) [01:10] it's good for games because it's faster as it doesn't do all that state tracking :p [01:10] hacking the ol' internet on netscape \o/ [01:10] hehe [01:10] ah, makes sense about the torrents then also [01:10] where as TCP is designed to ensure all your packets arrive, and in the order they are sent [01:10] but all that checking obviously adds overhead [01:10] ye [01:11] * Azelphur spent a lot of time reverse engineering protocols with wireshark for fun \o/ [01:11] even more sense for torrents, being downloades kb's at a time from all over [01:11] lol [01:11] hehe indeed [01:11] dogmatic69: I wrote an addon for mIRC (a Windows IRC client) to make it connect to MSN for example :p [01:12] im re-writing php's imap functions [01:12] why? o.O [01:12] i know mirc... those were the good old days of dial-up and irc [01:12] hehe that's the one [01:12] I was 6 years old when I started on dialup and mIRC :D [01:13] 1) its fing ugly, 2) its an extension, not available to hosts which does not suite my end user os php app im building [01:13] lol [01:13] i was like 12ish [01:13] hehe [01:13] when i was 6 the internet was a classified CIA something or another [01:13] I'm a glutton for control with my server stuff [01:14] started out with a VPS, got a big dedi now too [01:14] i was a pro on dos 5.x though ;) [01:14] i just got a little slice [01:14] hehe [01:14] only moved to ubuntu 3 moths ago, so was never 'able' to work linux [01:15] ah, I been over this way for 3 years :D [01:15] was under the impression you needed to be a rocket scientist [01:15] I was such a noob when I switched :) [01:15] haha, 3 years ago you almost did [01:15] in hind site, sudo apt-get install anything is easier [01:15] I started off on ubuntu 7.10 before they had jockey and such [01:16] and I'd never touched Linux before in my life [01:16] actually should start earlier because this is a hilarious story :p [01:16] I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgV2GlsufI [01:16] i installed 9.04 for the first time using linux... was not happy when i had to write 2 pages of code to use 2 monitors :/ [01:16] and decided that I really wanted that, so I did the most awesome thing ever [01:17] I went to ##linux and asked what distro I should use as a beginner [01:17] [01:17] lol [01:17] as it would [01:17] got heckled around pretty much every distro, Debian, Fedora, neither of them would start X at the time [01:18] and in the end someone pointed me at Ubuntu :P [01:18] which was the only distro I managed to get to start X, so I stuck with that [01:18] kept on following different guides on how to get my graphics drivers to work with dual screen and compiz, I was on ATI too back before the open source drivers where in full swing [01:19] so it was ATI+fglrx+dual screen which was the most difficult combo back in those days :p [01:19] I'd follow a guide, and when it didn't work I'd reload fresh to make sure I had a clean attempt at the next guide [01:19] by reload fresh, I mean a complete reinstall of Ubuntu :p [01:20] ~70 reloads later...success :D, I'd finally got wine, compiz, fglrx, and dual screen working [01:20] so I left it downloading my game via steam to try it out [01:20] woke up the next morning, power supply blew while I was asleep :( [01:20] ^ sods law in action right there xD [01:23] damn [01:23] that sucks [01:25] haha [01:26] dogmatic69: the funnier part is my brother built that PC and it was on it's third power supply [01:26] so I decided to hell with it and build a new PC, with nvidia cards for ease of use \o/ [01:26] o.o [01:27] I decided I was gonna put vista on it, because I needed a 64bit OS for my 4GB RAM, and XP 64bit was rather old and on the verge of being neglected, I figured it was Vista or nothing [01:27] so installed Vista 64, let it do it's update, let it reboot as requested, machine never booted again (blue screen of death) [01:28] after 3 reinstalls I came to the conclusion that this was indeed a glaringly obvious terrible oversight, and decided wow...to hell with this and went back to plugging away at Ubuntu xD [01:28] and that's how I ended up the crazy Linux gamer xD [01:30] every time I go near a windows machine now it does something so insanely irritating that I maintain that taking a performance hit and not having some games work is better than that god-awful os :p [01:35] hehe [01:35] i was a user of vista for many years [01:35] since the first cracked RC came out :P [01:35] then they fixed the crack, and could never find one that works so i paid 200 bucks for a proper one :/ [01:43] haha :p [01:51] Azelphur: so you are a ace with this protocol stuff? [01:51] a bit yea [01:52] maybe you could give me a bit more info on this issue, like low level problems it could be or something [01:53] when im reading from a stream created in php, things work pretty good if i set the size correctly or below the size of the data coming [01:53] if i have it to high i get a 504 gateway error [01:53] seems like its just "receiving" nothing, hoping that oneday the rest of the data would come [02:21] dogmatic69: not sure, never done much in PHP [02:53] does anyone know how ubuntu schedules threads on a multi-core processor? [08:13] 6~4Morning [08:17] aloha [08:17] Things to do today: Go to wedding [08:22] Hows things czajkowski? [08:22] grand thanks [08:22] we were meant to go to a mates wedding party today [08:22] but she had to call it off as all our mates are stuck in ireland [08:23] Oof [08:24] Supposed to start cheering up now [08:25] (weather wise) [08:30] is it better to go with btrfs or ext4 in 10.10 [08:38] ext4 [08:39] btrfs still has issues [08:39] ok [08:40] daubers: also what would be the ideal partitioning schemes [08:40] daubers: your wedding? ;) [08:40] is it /boot first /home second / third swap fourth ? [08:40] czajkowski: Aloha! [08:40] are there help docs or wiki ? [08:40] nigelb: bope, a gfriends [08:41] aha [08:41] should be fun [08:41] kaushal: Thats more preference than anything else. Stuff at the start of the disk will be slightly faster (but not noticeably so) [08:42] daubers: are there docs or wiki ? [08:42] kaushal: no idea, sorry. I tend to stick to the defaults [09:17] bah [09:17] * popey pokes kaushal in the eye with a stick [09:18] I just typed a reply to your mail, then came here and realised your question has been answered here [09:18] asking in lots of places at once is quite a waste of peoples time [09:19] Hiya! [09:20] lo [09:20] I shall try the latest netbook edition on my Eee later today, I hope sound works. [09:21] Hi kids [09:21] It didn't work on Jolicloud, until I sleep the OS, which is just plain wierd.. [09:21] hey bigcalm[mobile] [09:21] \o/ Jabber [09:22] Jabber, popey? [09:23] He wont take no jibber jabber [09:23] Jabber \o/ [09:23] 'lo [09:23] We use Jabber at work, which is ace. [09:24] if I set rules using 'ufw', do those take effect on all network interfaces? [09:24] if I wish to have different rules on different interfaces, then do I need to use iptables directly? [09:30] Bloody sky wifi [09:30] Ackroyd, wrong Nick [09:31] And auto correct fail [09:33] * dwatkins wonders if 40GB per month is enough [09:33] Porn? [09:34] No, bigcalm[mob] - my other half watches a fair amount of TV online, thoough. [09:36] ;) [09:42] um, i can eat 40gb in one day [09:44] la la la la la [09:44] daubers: how are things in la la land? 8-) [09:44] Hmmm... stupid electric heaters eating 4kW :( [09:44] run steam. install GTA4 (15.6 gig), Aliens vs Predator (15.4 gig), and LOTRO (over 10 gig) [09:45] and bam [09:45] You're broke for the month? [09:45] lotro is free, i paid a fiver for gta4, and six quid for avp [09:45] Fair enough [09:46] * daubers goes to start the car and get his suit out [09:49] wierd, Karmic dropped vol_id thus breaking unetbootin. Anyone know of a workaround for this? [09:54] * daubers needs a decent python graphing library [10:17] morning o/ [10:17] ahoy nperry [10:18] another day in work... [10:19] * marsilainen ponders how to remove thick ice from some steps with no appropriate implements [10:19] marsilainen: Kettle + water [10:20] daubers: good idea [10:20] marsilainen: piss on it. [10:20] my house mate just slipped on them and sliced his hand open on some metal railings next to them [10:20] marsilainen: And some table salt to stop it freezing again (put that on the ice after pouring the water on) [10:20] he's on his way to hospital now :/ [10:22] ouch, marsilainen [10:22] ice is not fun :/ [10:23] I cleared ice with my boots from some steps, be careful if you use the kettle that you don't end up with a thin layer of ice afterwwards [10:23] indeed, nperry - I broke my ankle slipping on ice once [10:24] * dwatkins uses the sourceforge version of unetbootin [10:26] * dwatkins notes that no-one replied from Jolicloud [10:26] Shame, their desktop works well on my tiny Eee screen [10:33] dwatkins: Thats why I go kettle + salt :) [10:33] also, car gone \o/ [10:33] I find the best solution to ice is putting it in a large whiskey ;) [10:34] suprengr: Criminal! [10:35] daubers: point taken :D [10:38] daubers: not your car, I assume [10:39] dwatkins: It was, just managed to sell it (at last) [10:39] woohoo, daubers :) [10:39] Need to make a run t the post office shortly send off the bit of the whatsit to the dvla [10:39] in this weather, that's even more impressive, daubers [10:41] morning [10:42] * danfish at my wits end. Haven't been able to fly home for 4 days due to weather in UK, and now the sodding Spanish air traffic controllers have gone on strike meaning no flights :(:(:( [10:42] aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! [10:46] danfish: Go lay in the pool [10:48] i fixed the problem with cron [10:49] i gave ownership of the script to root, and it works [10:57] i've no clue why having the backup drive mounted at the time caused it to require that though [11:00] daubers: if only - it's only 12deg c in the pool. I'll turn blue! [11:03] Warmer than outside here :) [11:07] I know I shouldn't complain, but I'm now a tad bored, miss the kids and really need to be at work on Monday [11:14] morning all. [11:15] good morning brobostigon [11:15] morning jacobw [11:28] * dutchie has to tidy his desk :( [11:30] can you still get a dell mini 9 w/ ubuntu? [11:37] Hello [11:37] I'm trying to install Maverick for Sparc [11:38] Here is the Ubuntu URL : https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/sparc/downloading-files.html#where-files [11:38] The link on this page : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/installer-sparc/current/images [11:38] Is broken! :( [11:38] Where do I find the Sparc image? [11:38] Thanks [11:39] cridlandr: we don't do sparc images anymore [11:40] :( [11:40] It says you do here : https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/sparc/downloading-files.html#where-files [11:40] no it doesnt [11:41] Guess I'll be going to OpenSolaris then.... that's not being "done" anymore either! LOL! [11:42] debian? [11:42] cridlandr: have you had a look at debian. [11:42] http://www.debian.org/ports/sparc/ [11:42] Yes, that was the other possibility [11:42] I just love this old hardware stuff! Thanks all [11:49] * dwatkins finally gets Ubuntu Netbook Remix to boot [11:49] silly unetbootin [11:51] Bit of slipknot at work, never hurt anybody [11:53] That reminds me, I need some speakers at work. [11:53] how do you rebuff criticism of getting people to use ubuntu? [11:54] people start to think that all their computer problems are automatically your fault people you've gotten them using ubuntu [11:55] criticism of ubuntu, or criticism of computers in general, jacobw? [11:55] * dwatkins boots ubuntu netbook remix and finds the mouse doesn't work [11:55] the only reason i do it really is because i really don't want to support people using windows [11:55] jacobw: you have to differentiate to said person where the issue lies, hw, etc. [11:56] like if the issue is with flash, it isnt ubuntu's messing up, it is adobe's, [11:57] criticism of ubuntu, i.e. they can't use iTunes, presentations created in Impress don't work properly with PowerPoint [11:57] i've tried that brobostigon, the belief seems to be seen as majority of people use Windows and don't have the same issues, then the majority must be right [11:57] jacobw: cant use itunes, nothing to do with ubuntu, ask apple to make a port. [11:58] ordinary people don't understand that though :( [11:58] i suppose to only thing to do is to carry on regardless [12:00] unfortunately, most people don't understand the aims of software freedom etc. [12:00] jacobw: i work with mind here in banbury, and have ubuntu and debian ontheir netbooks, perfect really. and no realcomplaints yet, on praise that the function is better and smoother and quicker thanwith windows. [12:00] you've hit the nail on the head there though, they ALL have ubuntu on their netbooks [12:01] jacobw: and this is people with mental and physical health difficulties. [12:01] i'm reassured by that :) if you can get it to work in those situations, i'm sure i can get it to work in my situation [12:01] i spent 6 months and abit, testing this out with them first, even one girl loves using dasher, [12:02] dasher has saved us a few times, with people who need to type, but cant use a keyboard. [12:04] the thing is when people start going on, you start thinking, "well, maybe i am doing something wrong in forcing my IT preferences on other people" [12:04] jacobw: this is only banbury mind, so it isnt many, it is only a few machines, but it has tool alot of time and effort to get it right, because of where and the people that are using them. [12:05] :) [12:05] this is another thing, i have limited skills with ubuntu to help people out, i should put more effort in to it [12:05] i dont force anything, i just say to them, i will show you what is possible, nd you canmake youre own choice. [12:05] brobostigon, that isn't really possible with relatives though [12:06] jacobw: it is, i showed my mum ubuntu and she compared it to my dads work machine with xp, guess what, she has been using ubuntu for a few years now, without any major problems. [12:07] #mumbuntu [12:07] well, in the short term, i need to place an old dell lattitude with a modern laptop [12:08] i.e. with a webcam/microphone so the user can use skype [12:09] sounds fairly simple. === monsterkiller is now known as MonsterKiller [12:09] check the webcam with the HW database. [12:09] it *should* be, but i can't find a list of ubuntu compatible laptop systems [12:10] there seems to be dozens of different lists on the wiki, most of them out of date [12:10] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound [12:10] that isnt it, [12:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop [12:11] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop/Reports [12:12] *sigh* my Eee 901 doesn't seem to want to make the mouse work on netbook remix [12:12] oh, I lied :D it's ok now I rebooted, just took a minute :D [12:12] now for the bit test - wifi and sound... [12:13] *big [12:34] i can't believe i can't go in to a shop and buy a laptop with ubuntu in this day and age :( [12:34] ridiculous [12:35] jacobw: you can get a blank mchine i do believe, and install yourself. [12:36] where from brobostigon ? [12:36] http://nakedcomputers.org/ [12:36] overclockers and ebuyer do barebones machines, too [12:38] ah I see, nakedcomputers is just a list [12:39] dwatkins: oh where you can buy from. [12:39] of* [12:43] indeed, brobostigon - looks quite handy [12:43] I'd like to see more such places selling bare-bones machines [12:44] it seems to buying a laptop to install linux is still as difficult as it always was [12:45] dell seem to have given up seen as they don't even ship the last LTS, they ship 9.10 [13:07] jacobw: how about an ASUS Eee 1005-series? [13:07] They appear to be well supported by Ubuntu (and OS X) [13:13] i think i've found a good bet, http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Lenovo_G550_1006557.html [13:15] Is it properly supported by Ubuntu, jacobw? [13:15] as far as i can tell.. [13:19] it isn't easy to tell, seen as finding what wireless chipset a particular laptop uses isn't always possible [13:26] 12:45:12 < jacobw> dell seem to have given up seen as they don't even ship the last LTS, they ship 9.10 [13:26] depends on the machine [13:28] i was looking at the inspiron laptop [13:30] generally what happens is that dell release a machine with a certain release of ubuntu, that release is customised to fit them and has to be setup in their factories, its not a simple thing to just change everything to the latest lts [13:30] it involves lots of testing and factory stuff, is it really worth it for them? [13:36] well, they do it for the Windows LTS releases, so if they were really going to support Ubuntu on their machines, they'd do it for Ubuntu too [13:37] well no, thats not how the world works now is it [13:37] its not a case of all or nothing [13:38] i know, it just shows in my opinion that their commitment is limited [13:39] although they may not be selling laptops with ubuntu i have to say i was exceptionally pleased with how well the 17 studio laptop works with ubuntu [13:40] best supported laptop under ubuntu i have ever owned, everything just worked including custom function keys and duel audio outputs monitor switching etc [13:41] oly, i've got one as well, it does work very well :) [13:41] i've got the 1737 model [13:41] all the bits that usually dont work, so i get the feeling they may be testing or something even if there not fully supporting it [13:42] well, with the big popular laptops, lots of people just buying them, are testing them. so bugs get files, kernel modules get written, all that fun stuff [13:42] not sure on the model i have all i know is its a dell studio 17 inch :p [13:43] yeah but even with testing i find machine work but the little features dont work like multimedia keys or the function keys on laptops when used with fn [13:43] but perhaps thats just bad luck on my part :p [13:44] just never had a laptop where every little feature just works [13:45] i am curious weather thats anything todo with dell though perhaps they test the hardware even if they dont ship the os [13:46] well you can expect that their lines use the same way of doing function keys and other little features, so if just one of those laptops gets an ubuntu tested release you can expect they will all work [13:47] still hope that we will see of the shelf setups supported a lot better though [13:48] always nice to have some garentee the machine will work correctly with out hacking it :) [13:48] i just randomly order hardware and laptops, always works out well for me! [14:03] what rule do I need to add to iptables to allow pings to work? [14:10] it's ok, got it now http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-iptables-9-allow-icmp-ping.html [14:21] can anyone recommend a SOHO Voip provider? [14:22] I think gradwell is quite popular for that isn't it? [14:22] not used myself [14:26] * marsilainen reboots a remote machine - hoping he hasn't locked himself out with iptables [14:27] phew [14:31] does running iptables slow down a port scan? [14:32] before iptables was running, a port scan would find the low open ports very quickly [14:32] but now it seems to take much longer [14:32] is that because the port scanner is waiting for a response each time and eventually timing out or something now that iptables is running? [14:59] marsilainen: Probably depends how dumb the portscanner is, but probably yes [15:02] if you have your default policy set to DROP then likely yes [15:24] penguin42, Laney: thanks [15:24] I guess it's a good thing in any case [15:25] if it takes people a long time to port-scan me, then all the better [15:40] * dutchie survived \o/ [15:57] if I buy an SSL cert, then it is just tied to the domain name right? [15:57] if I change the IP address for that domain at some point later, the cert keeps working right? [16:02] yes [16:28] having issues with arch [16:44] lazarus_: arch? [16:44] arch linux, i would presume. [16:44] the distro.. [16:45] brobostigon: yes [16:45] thats why i asked [16:45] lazarus_: ah well :) [16:46] lazarus_: its a rolling release isnt it, like debian sid. [16:46] there is apparently an #archlinux support channel [16:46] popey: for some reason i cant talk in there [16:47] your nick probably needs to be registered [16:47] and you need to be identified to services [16:47] !register [16:47] Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode [16:48] freenode server you only need to register once right [16:48] yes [16:49] in that case i am [16:49] are you identified with nickserv ? [16:50] how does on check? [16:50] one* [16:50] you arent [16:50] /whois lazarus_ [16:50] that shows you're not [16:50] the page i linked to tells you how to identify [16:50] hmm [16:51] /msg nickserv identify [16:54] hi [16:54] I am on Ubuntu 10.10 :) [16:55] Ubuntu 10.10 rocks [16:55] Google desktop dont work :/ [16:55] I mean the short cut key CTRl-CTRL [16:56] popey: thanks that fixed it [16:56] np lazarus_ [16:56] any idea ? [16:56] I heard its broken in 10.04 [16:56] but still broken in 10.10 :/ [16:57] arch liinux is a ***** at times [16:59] where do i seek help for it ? [16:59] lazarus_: the distro or the channel? [16:59] kaushal: http://desktop.google.com/support/?hl=en [17:00] popey: both [17:01] heh [17:01] you're not telling me anything I didn't already know I'm afraid [17:01] i remember #debian used to be really unhelpful :( [17:02] hehe [17:04] oh wow i basically got told if i dont know what im doing then im on the wrong distro [17:04] * brobostigon returned [17:04] does anyone know a text editor that has a keyboard shortcut to toggle word-wrap? [17:05] vi or emacs [17:07] what is it in vi? [17:07] i dunno [17:08] lazarus_: a rolling release, like debian sid, can very easily break,so i wouldnt give it to someone, who didnt know how to fix it, if something did break. === MonsterKiller is now known as monsterkiller [17:10] lazarus_: thats true to be fair [17:11] brobostigon: all i said to them was they asked me to find logs to which i replied im not sure where logs are kept because ive never had to view them [17:11] lazarus_: it's designed for expert users [17:11] also, why on earth would you want to run arch :) [17:11] lazarus_: to tell you, /var/log, [17:11] KrimZon: by default, Q is mapped to gq, which is the "format" operator [17:11] thankyou now i know [17:12] lazarus_: yes, they were alittle abrupt i must abmit. [17:12] popey: because people who run arch constantly go around telling people how great and easy to use arch is [17:12] KrimZon: J joins lines together, dunno if there is a way to do them all in one go [17:12] ali1234: that too [17:12] gentoo users do the same thing [17:12] if you go in a generic linux forum and say you use ubuntu you will get hundreds of "hurr.... gentoo is bettar" comments [17:12] popey: im looking for somthing a lil diff to ubuntu [17:13] lazarus_: diff in what way? [17:13] gentoo is a waste of human endeavour [17:13] and cpu endeavour [17:13] i know a few who like gentoo, and if they like it and it works for them, thats great [17:13] i find ubuntu to be to much of point click job done nowdays [17:13] lazarus_: have you tried debian for example ? [17:14] lazarus_: you'd rather run out in the snow naked and beat yourself with birch twigs? [17:14] jacobw: not no mention electricity [17:14] hmm, my windows partition has 32M left [17:14] brb, [17:14] clearly this is the reasoning behind unity as default UI [17:15] ubuntu is becoming too easy to use so someone decided to make it a little bit harder to set up [17:15] and i dont like unity [17:15] hehe [17:15]