[06:29] <coz_> hey all
[11:44] <thorwil> doctormo: i used some color coding in mockups, too. though, consider using black for the wireframes and blue for comments, as there's quite a tradition of doing so in illustration and printing
[11:45] <thorwil> not to forget that black seems heavy and solid
[17:20] <doctormo> thorwil: lots, how can I help you?
[17:21] <thorwil> doctormo: i have 2 argparser using cli scripts to install, called bgce.py and sizes.py
[17:21] <thorwil> and end up with 4 files in /usr/local/bin
[17:22] <thorwil> doctormo: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4359553/how-to-install-python-cli-scripts-with-setuptools-without-duplicates
[17:47] <thorwil> the one answer is no solution, tried that twice already
[17:50] <doctormo> thorwil: Can you pastebin your setup.py please/
[17:52] <thorwil> doctormo: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/backtestground/backtestground/annotate/head%3A/setup.py
[17:53] <doctormo> thorwil: there are a couple of things that don't look right
[17:55] <thorwil> doctormo: i followed docs/examples as far as i could, but it's my first setup.py, so no surprise
[17:55] <doctormo> I don't know why you should be using console_scripts, what does it do differently to scripts?
[17:56] <doctormo> typically you would put the py files in /usr/share/package_name and then sh scripts which call them in /usr/bin
[17:57] <doctormo> And what is in data_files? do you know?
[17:58] <thorwil> doctormo: yes. templates to be installed to the ~/Templates folder (i first check that it exists)
[18:00] <doctormo> thorwil: You can't install things to /home, it's generally not allowed and besides it'll normally install to /root because setup is running as root.
[18:00] <thorwil> doctormo: all the entry_points examples i found so far use console_scripts
[18:01] <thorwil> doctormo: well, setup.py install needs sudo to install to /usr/local/bin already, so what's the problem with home? that part of the scripts does work fine
[18:02] <doctormo> It's not considered sane, I'm surprised it works.
[18:02] <thorwil> i don't see an alternative to direct installation to Templates :/
[18:03] <doctormo> We don't have a good system of installing templates.
[18:04] <thorwil> not even with a .deb?
[18:04] <doctormo> Not really, since you can't install things to /home
[18:05] <thorwil> guess the Template folder is a dumb design, then
[18:05] <doctormo> indeed
[18:11] <thorwil> if that label in entry_points reads 'console_scripts' or 'scripts' makes no difference.
[18:11] <thorwil> dinner, bbl
[18:14] <doctormo> thorwil: Take out the entry point stuff and just stick with scripts
[18:49] <kwwii> doctormo: templates should go in example-content, which is linked in every home dir
[18:49] <kwwii> or?
[18:58] <thorwil> kwwii: Examples and Templates are not related in any way, afaict
[19:04] <thorwil> doctormo: ok, that works, thanks!
[19:05] <thorwil> i guess the only thing i lose is windows and perhaps osx compatibility, but why bother
[19:15] <doctormo> thorwil: True, depends if your targeting those and if you think someone else will come in and fill in that.
[19:15] <doctormo> kwwii: We could do with a better system.
[19:16] <thorwil> one with system-wide templates in /usr/local/share, perhaps
[19:18] <thorwil> oh, and the filesytem should support i18n for filenames
[19:19] <doctormo> thorwil: doesn't it do that already?
[19:20] <thorwil> doctormo: afaik folders like "Documents" and "Music" have to be renamed if you switch language
[19:20] <doctormo> thorwil: They don't have to be.
[19:20] <doctormo> I'm very well versed in the XDG specification :-)
[19:21] <doctormo> in ~/.config/xdg-dirs.dirs you'll see the mapping, it comes from /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults
[19:22] <doctormo> There is a po file which says what they're translated into if you want.
[19:22] <doctormo> And a service which is run on login to suggest renaming.
[19:22] <doctormo> I actually have my xdg-dirs customised, because I like my music to be in ~/Audio/Music and my pictures to be ~/Photographs
[19:23] <thorwil> doctormo: what i mean would be having a list of names for every file right on the filesystem level
[19:24] <doctormo> I don't understand
[19:24] <thorwil> doctormo: 'en', 'de', 'po_BR'  ... names per file
[19:25] <thorwil> pt_BR, even
[19:25] <doctormo> I'm sorry I still don't understand, could you explain more?
[19:26] <thorwil> doctormo: currently a file has just one name. it should have the option to have names per language
[19:27] <doctormo> Oh, that's fancy, I don't know any fs that does that.
[19:28] <thorwil> that way, a "Documents" folder would stay "Documents", but a user with lang=german would see "Dokumente"
[19:28] <doctormo> I see yes
[19:33] <thorwil> bah, bdist_rpm but no bdist_deb
[19:34] <kwwii> doctormo: sorry for responding late... I actually think example-content is a perfect place
[19:34] <kwwii> as it doesn't copy the templates to everyones home dirs
[19:34] <kwwii> on one system, I mean
[19:34] <kwwii> and really, it is example content
[19:35] <kwwii> usuable good example content
[19:35] <doctormo> thorwil: you got to use the python deb template, easy as pie
[19:35] <kwwii> doctormo: but anyway, the system could be better, I agree
[19:35] <kwwii> getting good templates would be a good first step :-)
[19:36] <thorwil> kwwii: my templates should appear in the "Create Document" menu. else, they could go wherever the user likes. most likely not Examples, seeing how anything else there is very different
[19:37] <thorwil> kwwii: i'm talking about the first 2 in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/backtestground/backtestground/files/head%3A/templates/
[19:37] <kwwii> thorwil: I was just trying to find a place in the home dir to link them to
[19:38] <kwwii> honestly, it seems to me this stuff is example content
[19:39] <kwwii> and can be linked as templates
[19:39] <kwwii> everything else in example content can go :-)
[19:39] <kwwii> I mean, the name alone describes what should be included
[19:39] <kwwii> although I guess they need to end up in the templates dir
[19:39] <kwwii> or such
[19:40] <kwwii> has that issue been discussed yet?
[19:40] <kwwii> templates is in the xd spec I think
[19:40] <kwwii> xdg
[19:41] <kwwii> so really there should be a package called templates or such which does the same thing as example-content
[19:41] <kwwii> or?
[19:42] <thorwil> kwwii: Templates is empty by default
[19:43] <thorwil> gnome people had discussions about putting empty files of the most common types there, but thos in charge said it would be up to admins or users themselves to put stuff there
[19:44] <kwwii> thorwil: that seems silly
[19:44] <kwwii> I mean, for ubuntu that seems silly
[19:44] <kwwii> I understand that gnome doesn't want to put stuff there by defailt
[19:44] <kwwii> default
[19:44] <kwwii> that makes senses
[19:44] <kwwii> but ubuntu sould
[19:44] <kwwii> shold
[19:45] <kwwii> also, I can imagine that apps could include their own templates which would be installed in that dir
[19:45] <thorwil> that's discouraged by those gnome people
[19:45] <kwwii> it is something which has never worked in linux before because there were never good templates and too many differing file types which were not supported by enough apps
[19:46] <thorwil> so it would be something that only be dealt with in ubuntu specific packages
[19:46] <kwwii> thorwil: which gnome people did you talk to?
[19:46] <kwwii> thorwil: I know quite a few personally, so maybe I could clear some stuff up
[19:46] <thorwil> kwwii: i didn't, just followed the discussion and that was years ago
[19:47] <thorwil> i don't recall the names
[19:47] <kwwii> ahh, in that case I would say it is time to re-investigate the possibilities :-)
[19:48] <doctormo> What are you after? a nautilus Create New template or something else?
[19:48] <thorwil> doctormo: i think Ken is after at least having a few items in there on an ubuntu default install
[19:48] <kwwii> I can't hurt to think of some way to a) include a set of default templates and link them properly and b) allow apps to install templates, probably as an extra package which the user has to select
[19:50] <thorwil> anyway, i have a drawing.svg in there and that's damn convenient :)
[19:50] <kwwii> doctormo: no, to give people a simple set of example files for a letter, a CV, a business letter, a couple presentations, etc...with instructions on the templates as to what is what
[19:50] <kwwii> thorwil's stuff is very specific, so it doesn't need instructions
[19:51] <kwwii> it would land in the insckape make new file menu thingy
[19:51] <thorwil> kwwii: the Templates dir is for skeleton files, not so much examples
[19:51] <kwwii> having one space for all of those things would be killer
[19:51] <kwwii> right now apps put them where they want
[19:52] <kwwii> thorwil: that is why I first wanted example content
[19:52] <kwwii> but the files would be pretty bare-boned as we do not have the skills and people to write real help
[19:53] <kwwii> we could probably get people from all nations to help make a template for a business letter in their language though
[19:53] <thorwil> free software needs a skilled clone army
[19:55] <kwwii> doctormo: does that confuse things or clear things up?
[19:56] <kwwii> or am I confusing the conversation by butting in? :-)
[19:58] <thorwil> well, it's nice that it's not me widening the scope, for once :)
[20:00] <kwwii> lol
[20:09] <thorwil> anyone in the mood for a testdrive? bzr branch lp:backtestground
[20:09] <thorwil> best would be someone without python-setuptools installed
[20:22] <thorwil> just pushed an improved svg template that supports batch export to 14 screen resolutions :D
[20:41] <kwwii> thorwil: about to go to bed..I'll test it tomorrow
[20:41] <thorwil> kwwii: ok, have nice dreams :)
[20:43] <kwwii> thorwil: ebenso
[20:47] <kwwii> thorwil: in the future, leave out the "have"
[20:48] <thorwil> kwwii: ok, ty
[20:49] <kwwii> night
[20:49]  * kwwii away
[23:54] <coz_> hey all