=== asac_ is now known as asac [06:47] good morning [08:10] hello, I need help with scp and network configuration on ubuntu, is this the right channel or there's a better one ? [08:10] nelson777: #ubuntu === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [09:18] hey [09:20] salut seb128 [09:20] how was your long week-end? :) [09:20] lut didrocks [09:20] quite nice [09:20] how about your normal we? [09:20] :-) [09:20] quite "normal" :-) [09:21] still have some snow? [09:25] didrocks, sort of [09:26] didrocks, it's snowing right now but it's almost melting snow [09:26] but they said it will get colder again in the next day, so not sure if it will stay or not [09:27] ok, not very different from here then :) [09:59] mvo, good morning, can I bother you for a bit about ? [10:05] mpt: yes, what is the question? [10:05] mvo, I have a Papercut Ninja who wants to fix bug 605048 [10:05] Launchpad bug 605048 in software-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) ""Rebuilding application catalogue" uses a separate window (affects: 2) (heat: 33)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605048 [10:06] mvo, and they want to know if there is really a functional difference between "broken apt cache" and "externally changed apt cache" [10:07] mvo, the current design assumes that it's safe to browse available software and queue up more installations when the cache is broken, but unsafe to do it when the cache is externally changed [10:07] Is that correct? [10:09] mpt: hm, hm. let me think for a second [10:10] one big difference is that rebuilding application cataglog really means that, it updates the database that s-c relies on for all its searches/querries etc [10:10] what we could do (and should at some point) is that we modify the db building so that its building a seperate one that is then just "swtiched" over to the live one [10:11] that eliminates the window [10:11] or makes it appears for only a some seonds [10:11] repairing does not (in most cases) deal with the xapian db, only the pakckages states [10:11] and those we can deal with dynamically [10:12] repair in a sense is just like a "instal" or "remove" [10:12] I think glatzor said that repairing sometimes involves installing or removing stuff [10:14] in which case, the text I have specified for it currently is wrong [10:14] it's more than just rebuilding the catalog [10:16] mvo, so I guess they really are different [10:16] mpt: indeed, sorry that I have not spotted this in the spec [10:16] mpt: the implementation lacks behind, on broken dependencies (broken apt cache) it will iirc open a dialog currently, let me check that to be sure [10:17] mvo, the other question was, can you provide a terminal command to trigger the externally-changed cache case, in the same way as you provided that terminal command for breaking the cache? [10:18] hm, the text follows the spec, so that probably needs tweaking [10:18] a command for the "Handling an externally-changed apt cache" case ? [10:18] Yes, a command to trigger it [10:19] "sudo update-software-center" [10:19] that should trigger it [10:19] however, the heading should probably be "handling external changes in the xapian db" or something [10:20] with a note that the process should be changed so that the DB is build first and then just moved over the old one [10:21] sudo: Can't open /var/lib/sudo/mpt/0: Read-only file system [10:21] external changes in the apt cache should be dealt now nicely by watching the dpkg changes file [10:21] ehhh [10:21] oh? [10:21] that smeels like fs corruption :/ [10:21] what does dmesg say? [10:21] dmesg is a file, it doesn't get written to when this happens [10:21] which it does every couple of weeks [10:22] mpt: Is your / read-only? [10:22] so, I'm just going to write down that command on a piece of paper, and then restart and fsck :-) [10:22] dmesg displays the kernel internal log buffer, it should contain info aout this [10:22] jpds, yep, again [10:22] what does it output if you run "dmesg" ? nothing? stale info? [10:23] jpds, mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540215/ [10:23] *weeh*, something like this is what I expected [10:24] and it won't be caputured by apport because of the ro filesystem :/ [10:27] mvo, so, anything else you'd like me to do before I restart? :-) [10:30] mpt: nothing, good luck with the fsck [10:31] ok, bbi20m [10:51] mvo, on a completely separate topic, thanks for doing that cleanup of deb-thumbnailer :-) [10:52] mpt: yw, I need to do a bit more to make it suitable for main, but its a good start and I got feedback straight away so I think we should continue it and get it ready [10:52] mvo, do you want a bug report or anything to track its inclusion? [10:53] mpt: sounds like a good idea to keep track of it, we can target it for natty beta then [10:54] mvo, is there a pseudo-package for bug reports of that sort? [10:55] hm, looks like not, just "[needs-packaging]" in the summary [11:27] mvo, is it correct to say that when the apt cache is broken, some software might not run properly? [11:27] or run at all? [11:42] chrisccoulson, hey [11:42] hi seb128, how are you? [11:42] I'm fine thank you ;-) [11:42] how are you? [11:43] chrisccoulson, do you know if there is a way to get greasemonkey with the new firefox in natty [11:43] ? [11:43] seb128 - i'm not too bad thanks. i got a new phone today:) [11:43] oh? which one? [11:43] i got the HTC desire [11:44] seb128 - https://arantius.com/misc/gm-nightly/ [11:44] i've not tried those builds though [11:46] chrisccoulson, thanks [11:47] at some point i will update all of the extensions in the archive, but i'm focused on the global menu work atm [11:48] I have a patch for bug 83604 in system-tools-backends, which I've also sent upstream. Any objection to me uploading it? mdz asked me to look into the NTP syncing situation in Ubuntu as part of a TB brainstorm.ubuntu.com review; this is part of that. [11:48] Launchpad bug 83604 in system-tools-backends (Debian) (and 3 other projects) "ntpdate 1:4.2.2.p4+dfsg-1ubuntu2 has a flawed configuration file. (affects: 2) (heat: 28)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83604 [11:49] cjwatson, no objection, but we will stop using g-s-t this cycle it seems [11:49] yeah, I heard about that [11:50] can you point me to the replacement project so that I can check that it doesn't have the same problem? [11:50] cjwatson, indicator-datetime [11:50] it's from dx and mostly not done yet [11:52] OK, it has no NTP code at all [11:53] no [11:53] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate [11:53] cjwatson, ^ that's the design [11:53] cjwatson, it's mostly not done yet, it's a spec for this cycle [11:53] cjwatson, if you think ntp is something important to have talk to mpt or ted I guess [11:53] the design can probably still be updated [11:53] synchronising is in that design [11:54] (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=settings-time-date.jpg) [11:54] it doesn't have anything for setting NTP servers so probably won't need to fiddle with ntp.conf [11:54] (and I don't really care about that personally) [11:54] so I think this should be OK [11:56] oh right [11:56] cjwatson, yeah, so no ntp servers config or "sync now " ntpdate action [11:56] not sure if we need any of those though [11:56] *shrug* [11:57] don't feel strongly either way :) I'm just making sure it doesn't screw things up when those actions are available [11:57] ok, uploaded [11:57] ok, thanks [12:04] seb128: How can compiz be the reason applets/indicators aren't loading? [12:09] mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~alexlauni/update-manager/dbus/+merge/42827 [12:12] Amaranth: it is reparenting to agressively the parents X windows [12:12] Amaranth: making them crash. smspillaz looked at it and got a partial fix (but it disables menu usage) [12:29] hi [12:38] thanks lamalex === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [13:44] hello everyone! [13:47] hey nessita [13:47] how are you? [13:48] hi seb128, I'm pretty good, how are you? [13:48] I'm fine thanks [13:48] * nessita now has tickets to Dallas [13:49] how, coming to the rally, nice ! [13:49] yes [13:49] be prepared! :-P [13:50] seb128: speaking of which (?): is there any way of knowing when https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=control-panel will be move from the NEW queue? I've been told I should be bugging the designated archive admin of the day, but last friday I didn't have luck with that [13:50] nessita, I will do it right now [13:51] awesome! [13:51] thanks :-) [13:52] np, sorry for the delay [13:52] I didn't get to it before the a1 freeze last week... [14:00] kenvandine, tedg: libindicator-debugenv?! [14:00] kenvandine, tedg: is there a valid usecase to add a binary there? [14:01] just to get tools to get better debugging info [14:01] maybe we don't need those in the ubuntu package... [14:02] kenvandine, well if I get that correctly that binary only install a config enabling debug [14:02] it doesn't ship anything else [14:03] or the changelog and description are confusing [14:03] ok, the description should definately be better [14:03] seb128, It's not a binary, it's an environment file -- it's for developers as they need those settings to work on indicators easily. [14:03] just xsession [14:03] hum [14:04] I just wanted it some way that it could be added and removed easily. [14:04] /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80indicator-debugging [14:04] if we start adding a binary for each config change people might want to do [14:04] well, get the file in /usr/share and instructions on how to copy it to etc? [14:04] Honestly, I'm okay if this doesn't get in distro, as I think everyone who needs it is running PPA. [14:04] well I don't get why it needs to be a binary at all? [14:05] So that you can add and remove it easily. [14:05] well get a config in /etc/default? [14:05] developers can copy the file [14:05] we don't install an apport-enable binary to enable apport [14:05] And update it if we add additional env variables, etc. [14:06] I see why you might find it useful [14:06] But this isn't something normal users would ever install... I mean, it makes your system less robust, but easier to debug. [14:06] but if we start this way we can add a $source-enabledebug to each source in the archiv [14:06] like a libglib-tweakg_debug [14:06] so lets put in datadir somewhere and people can just copy it if they want [14:06] * tedg doesn't think that's necessarily a bad idea [14:06] and a unity-runmeundervalgrind [14:06] and remove when they don't need it [14:07] i'll do that [14:07] why don't you just get a build flag for the default and change the value in the ppa? [14:07] or in unstable cycles [14:07] seb128, But then I can also put http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/libindicator-debugmode in a bug report and not force a report to use the command line. [14:07] and switch it back to non debug by default at beta [14:07] i would rather people be able to do dev against what is in ubuntu === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [14:08] kenvandine, well turn debug on until beta? [14:08] I don't think even users running alphas should have those flags set. I think that really only myself ronoc and kvalo should have those flags set. [14:08] "You don't seem to be running Ubuntu" [14:08] wth? ;-) [14:08] tedg, well, we don't add a binary to ubuntu proper for 3 users [14:08] seb128, i don't think it is useful for everyone [14:08] it clutters the apt index, extra download, extra software-center lines etc [14:08] seb128 for sure. And I'm okay with that package being PPA only. [14:09] ok great [14:09] kenvandine, please drop it in the next upload ;-) [14:09] sorry to be picky about that [14:09] i'll do it now [14:09] seb128, no worries... i should have complained about that :) [14:09] kenvandine, tedg: thanks! [14:10] did you guys have a nice we otherwise? ;-) [14:10] great... and you? [14:10] Yup. Recovering after all my guests have now left :) [14:11] kenvandine, very nice, 3 days WE are always nice ;-) [14:11] :-D [14:12] mterry, re: terminate scale patch, what state was getState giving> [14:13] lamalex, don't recall off hand, let me try to refresh memory [14:13] mterry, no, sorry i didn't get to file the mir bug [14:13] i started to look at it and decided it had been too long since i reviewed the package and wanted to look closer first [14:14] lamalex, the scale plugin only mucks with state if we pass InitKey or InitButton to the Initialize() function [14:14] lamalex, since we weren't doing that (which is easily fixable), it didn't set TermKey or TemButton [14:15] lamalex, but even if we were to fix that, it wouldn't detect scales initiated from elsewhere (like super+a) [14:15] lamalex, I believe the state was just 0, but not 100% sure [14:16] mterry, I think it's actually a compiz bug with setting the state [14:16] lamalex, eh, OK. Again, I think checking the state of an action instead of the plugin is a red herring [14:18] mterry, I think the real issue is the explicit dep on scale, but that's probably not a real issue either [14:18] lamalex, yar. I didn't know another way to check the state of the scale plugin [14:21] tedg, ugh... there needs to be a separate indicator-loaded for gtk3 doesn't there? [14:22] kenvandine, Yup :-/ [14:22] sigh... another versioned package... libindicator-tools [14:22] and libindicator3-tools [14:22] seb128, ^^ [14:22] do you really need to? [14:22] can't you ship both binaries in the same package? [14:23] i'll depend on the gtk3 lib [14:23] well, it's debugging utilities [14:23] yeah [14:23] who is not going to have gtk3 anyway? [14:23] we have things like apport depending on it [14:24] ok, so your suggesting stick both in the same package and one will just not work [14:24] other will come this cycle [14:24] that is fine for this.... [14:24] why will one not work? [14:24] seb128: xfce won't have it [14:24] the gtk3 one will depend on gtk3 [14:24] and? [14:24] it'll work in ubuntu yes [14:24] it means you depends on both gtk [14:24] seb128: and they will drop apport in xubuntu because of gtk3, but they are ok to drop the indicator applet for a cycle as well [14:25] didrocks, but not everyone gets that [14:25] it is just the tools package [14:25] didrocks, I don't get what that has to do with xfce? [14:25] didrocks, it's just a debugging utility [14:25] so i guess dep on both is fine [14:25] didrocks, xfce hackers can install a debugging utility and gtk3 no? [14:25] seb128: oh, I was backlogging and just react on the "seb128 | who is not going to have gtk3 anyway?" then right, in that case, we don't care :) [14:25] didrocks, it's the command line loader, not the applet [14:26] didrocks, ok great ;-) [14:26] * kenvandine will fix that too [14:26] wasn't at the fact it's the debugging tool :) in that case, one extra binary package sounds heavy :) [14:32] ok, rebooting and crossing fingers :) (if you don't see me it's certainly because of grub :)) [14:32] (and not the fact that there is snow outside and my ski not very far…) [14:38] nessita, ubuntuone-control-panel has an issue [14:38] ubuntuone/controlpanel/gtk/widgets.py: GPL (v2,) [14:38] nessita, that source is gpl2 only so you can't distribute it under GPL3 [14:39] seb128: ah, let me fix that [14:39] nessita, you will need another upload, rejecting this one [14:39] seb128: ok, thanks! can the new upload have newer upstream versions? [14:39] mterry, were you using state() or getState? [14:39] nessita, they can have any version you want [14:40] nessita, you can just fix the source and reupload with the same version or do a new version [14:40] seb128: awesome, I'll be back! :-p [14:40] ;-) [14:40] lamalex, for the action? state I believe [14:46] lamalex: I commented on the merge proposal :) [14:46] mvo, thanks [14:47] mvo, I work for Canonical.. [14:47] hahaha [14:47] ok [14:47] :) [14:48] sorry for the noise then [14:48] np [15:04] kenvandine, do you plan to do a libindicator upload? [15:04] kenvandine, not sure why to do with the binaries which are in binNEW [15:04] seb128, i will in a few [15:04] I'm pondering accepting them or just waiting for the next one so we don't get the debug one newed and dropped [15:04] finishing up something else [15:04] ok, I will wait for the new upload [15:04] just wait on them [15:04] thanks === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf [15:09] seb128: Could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/nautilus-sendto/ubuntugtk3-update/+merge/42602 ? thanks! [15:09] cdbs, hey [15:09] it is the easiest upgrade as it can be :) [15:10] hey seb128! In case you didn't recognise, I am bilalakhtar [15:10] I did from the url ;-) [15:10] cdbs, sorry but that one is not needed [15:10] nautilus-sendto has been merged in nautilus [15:10] the ppa version of nautilus has it [15:11] okay, so time wasted :( [15:11] 2.90 was one tarball before they merged I think [15:11] sorry about that [15:11] next up, a big package [15:11] you should maybe ask on the channel before starting on something? [15:11] I began on saturday, no one was here on the channel [15:11] otherwise I would have asked [15:11] I did 90% of the avahi merge in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/avahi/ubuntu, but it fails to build with gir errors that I don't understand. even after bumping the repository version to 1.2, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/540297/. could somebody who understands gir finish it off for me, maybe? [15:13] cjwatson, is there any reason you didn't take 0.6.28? [15:14] cjwatson, it's fixed in that version [15:14] which is what debian has in experimental [15:14] cjwatson, http://git.0pointer.de/?p=avahi.git;a=commit;h=7b124f6ae362a575460d2374dca39ebdce07c714 [15:14] ortherwise [15:14] seb128: I didn't see the version in experimental [15:14] happy to try merging from that instead [15:14] thanks for the references [15:15] cjwatson, you're welcome, thank you for doing the merge :-) === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_ === oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann [15:34] seb128, libindicator uploaded [15:34] kenvandine, thanks! [15:37] seb128: new packaging bits for u1cp ready at https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/+junk/ubuntuone-control-panel-release [15:43] cjwatson, so the new avahi worked, gret ;-) [15:43] great [15:44] seb128: what was the issue with previous u1cp? (I think my connection dropped when you discussed it) [15:44] ubuntuone/controlpanel/gtk/widgets.py: GPL (v2,) [15:44] didrocks, it was GPL2 only [15:44] where the COPYING is GPL3 [15:44] argh, this one slept under my eye :/ [15:44] sorry [15:44] no worry [15:44] can you sponsor the new update? [15:45] so I can review it ;-) [15:45] sure [15:48] yey! [15:48] seb128, didrocks: thanks [15:48] nessita: you're welcome :) [15:49] seb128: ... I hope so [15:49] it built and avahi-browse -at returned something that looked plausible. :) [15:49] seb128: done [15:49] didrocks, thanks [15:50] yw [15:55] mterry, bug 686034 [15:55] Launchpad bug 686034 in geoclue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] geoclue (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686034 [16:31] maaaaaan, the dbusmenu documentation really needs fixing ;) [16:31] i have to keep looking at other people work to figure out how to use it ;) [16:40] chrisccoulson, file bugs about the broken docs... is it just incomplete? or worse? [16:40] kenvandine, mainly incomplete. for example, it's not obvious how i create a submenu. do i just create a DbusmenuMenuItem and add children to it, or is there some property i need to set to make it work? [16:41] gtk menus [16:41] i think you just want to create the gtk menus then add it [16:41] kenvandine, i don't really want to do that, i'm working inside firefox ;) [16:41] * kenvandine hasn't done that in a while... [16:41] oh... wait... dbusmenu itself [16:42] humm... in appindicator that is what you do :) [16:42] yeah, i'm using the dbusmenu API directly [16:42] ugh [16:42] heh [16:42] i'm constructing the menu structure directly from the DOM [16:42] territory i haven't been brave enough to enter :) [16:42] yeah, it's crazy ;) [16:42] nice! [16:43] so are you complaining about the gtk-doc generated docs? or just lack of documentation in general? [16:43] kenvandine, lack of documentation in general [16:43] ok [16:44] there's a whole list of property names in the documentation, but there's no explanation about what any of them mean [16:44] (although, some are self-explanatory) [16:45] bug tedg :) [16:46] maybe he could point you at the few important bits [16:47] i guess libappindicator might be a good place to look to figure out how to use the API [16:47] :) [16:49] chrisccoulson, Naw, you should look at appmenu-gtk -- it's probably closest to what you want. [16:50] tedg - thanks, i'll grab that too [16:51] kenvandine: I have no issues/todos for your meeting today [16:52] kenvandine: if you could remind dbarth that I could always use more bitesize bugs that's all I need. [16:54] jcastro: well, I've looked over the 400 bugs the other day, we don't have new bitesizable right now [16:55] (but I would love upstream keeping an eye on bugs) [16:55] didrocks: yeah, just one of those vigilance things [16:56] didrocks: also, I missed all your PMs on friday until I ran into them yesterday, so sorry if it seemed that I was ignoring you all day [16:57] jcastro: no worry :) [16:58] jcastro, will do === Richie__ is now known as Richie === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [17:30] kklimonda, there? [17:31] seb128: yes [17:31] kklimonda, hey, how are you? [17:32] seb128: thanks, I'm good now :) [17:32] tedg, ok, i think i figured out what i need to do ;) [17:32] hopefully i'll be able to build this at the end of the week [17:32] then the fun bit starts ;) [17:33] chrisccoulson, Woot! [17:33] seb128: I have a gtkmm update prepared and have fixed one bug in atkmm packaging (also downgraded debhelper dependency to 7 as per dholbach comment on #-motu) [17:34] kklimonda, let me know if you need review [17:35] kklimonda, sorry got sidetracked 2 minutes [17:35] kklimonda, what do you think about having a gnomemm team on launchpad [17:36] kklimonda, I was thinking you could create and lead it [17:36] so the vcs would be there, murray seemed interested to contribute to such a team [17:39] seb128: I guess it makes some sense if more people are interested in maintaining mm bits, it's definitely easier than becoming part of ~u-desktop [17:39] ok great [17:40] kklimonda, would you like to lead the team? [17:40] seb128: sure [17:41] excellent [17:41] kklimonda, do you need some help to set the team or something? [17:42] seb128: I've commented on bug 672817, there is also a merge requested for gtkmm but dholbach has reported a weird ftbfs - I can't reproduce it myself nor in the PPA so I'm not sure how to proceed (https://code.launchpad.net/~kklimonda/gtkmm/packaging/+merge/42461) [17:42] Launchpad bug 672817 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] atkmm1.6 (affects: 1) (heat: 156)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672817 [17:43] seb128: I think I'll manage to create the team -- as long as I'm not stuck at creating a description -- should I do something else? [17:44] checkout the vcs for glibmm, atkmm, gtkmm [17:44] change the control url and push to that team [17:44] so the next upload will have the correct vcs [17:45] I will clean them from the ubuntu-desktop namespace once that's done [17:45] ok [17:45] you can also announce the team on the ubuntu-desktop list if you want [17:45] or we can get jcastro to do that perhaps if you don't to do it ;-) [17:48] yeah, I'd never take fun of announcing something new from jcastro ;) [17:50] ok, great [17:50] jcastro, hey [17:50] jcastro, can you announce the gnomemm team once it's set up in launchpad? [17:50] kklimonda is going to create and lead it [17:53] seb128: I guess I should add ~ubuntu-desktop to the member list? [17:54] what is gnomemm ? [17:56] im on the -desktop mailing list.. i can wait :) [17:56] seb128, will you be here around 19UTC / [17:56] ?* [17:57] bcurtiswx: "people" responsible for the Gtkmm stack in Ubuntu, I guess it's being created to ease the burden on the ubuntu-desktop team. ("people" because so far there is me and myself ;) ) [17:57] kklimonda, not sure, it's your team, up to you to decide who has access to it ;-) [17:57] but yeah would be easier [17:57] what does the mm stand for ? [17:57] bcurtiswx: C++ [17:58] OK [17:58] gotta go be back around 19UTC [17:58] bcurtiswx, I will probably be there yes [17:58] so gnomemm is mostly C++ interface for Gtk+ and friends [17:58] bcurtiswx, see you later [17:59] kklimonda, the team purpose is not only to put less on ubuntu-desktop [17:59] it's also that upstream gtkmm showed interested to contribute there [17:59] seb128: that's great :) [17:59] but we can't give access easily to the desktop set [17:59] right [18:00]