[01:46] <highvoltage> ScottK: what's an AM?
[02:38] <ScottK> highvoltage: Application Manager (for Debian New Maintainer process)
[03:00] <highvoltage> ScottK: thanks. stgraber showed me how to google that properly :)
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning!
[06:47] <didrocks> good morning
[06:47] <dholbach> salut didrocks
[06:48] <didrocks> hey dholbach, did you have a good week-end?
[06:49] <dholbach> yes, I did - how about you?
[06:49] <didrocks> nice, snowy and cold :)
[06:51] <dholbach> yeah, same here - I did a long walk with the dog through a forest yesterday - it was great :)
[06:51] <didrocks> nice! :)
[06:51] <RAOF> A white dog in a snowy forest? :)\
[06:52] <dholbach> the dog was a bit whiter afterwards, yes :)
[06:58] <lifeless> how does one manually trigger a pyshared update?
[09:05] <mdz> pitti, I finally got a full retrace on my g-s-d crasher (bug 685785)
[09:25] <geser> did the plymouth theme dropped on quality? it looks pixelized to me
[09:32] <tumbleweed> geser: mine appears to have a corrupt pallete, so it could be that the anti-aliasing is using the wrong colours.
[09:33] <geser> I don't know what exactly happened, but the "ubuntu" doesn't look as smooth as before
[09:35] <tumbleweed> geser: yeah, the same, but the "waiting for foo to be mounted" text is completely unreadable (and I get a brief flash of a yellow-text tty0)
[09:36] <geser> yes, I saw that too. It looks like some ASCII block chars got displayed on top the text
[10:05] <micahg> can an AA please delete aspell-id from NEW, the packager is working on getting it in through Debian
[10:07] <micahg> slangasek: or james_w ^^ re aspell-id in NEW
[10:10] <c2tarun> can anyone please tell me about some small packaging bugs like spelling mistakes of something like that. i want to work on them.
[10:15] <geser> try one of the "bitesize" tagged bugs: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
[10:20] <dnivra> hello. I am running apt in gdb and when i print the value of a variable, output is "value optimized out". what does this mean?
[10:25] <geser> that the compiler (gcc) got rid of the variable in the optimization stage during compilation
[10:26] <dnivra> so that variable is not necessary for the correct functioning of the program?
[10:28] <Chipzz> no
[10:28] <Chipzz> it is
[10:28] <dnivra> then what did geser mean by "got rid of the variable"?
[10:29] <dnivra> so is there a way for me to get the value of a variable? normal printing out doesn't seem to work: using cout.
[10:30] <geser> dnivra: you have to rebuild without optimization (-O0)
[10:30] <Chipzz> dnivra: let me try to give a stupid example. lets say you write a program to print the value 2
[10:31] <dnivra> geser, there's a small problem with that. how do I specify that? I did in the makefile but it shows an error. hold on let me tell you what the exact error is.
[10:31] <Chipzz> int willbegone=1; printf("%i\n", i+1);
[10:31] <dnivra> okay.
[10:31] <Chipzz> i is constant so can be optimized away
[10:31] <dnivra> wait i isn't declared is it?
[10:31] <Chipzz> but it is still necessary to calculate 2
[10:31] <Chipzz> euh
[10:31] <Chipzz> sigh
[10:32] <Chipzz> int willbegone=1; printf("%i\n", willbegone+1);
[10:32] <Chipzz> s/i/willbegone
[10:32] <dnivra> oh okay i see. sorry should've seen through that.
[10:32] <Chipzz> that being said
[10:32] <Chipzz> your question is off-topic here ;)
[10:33] <dnivra> sure sure. no more on this. but i can still ask doubts on how to compile apt without optimization right?
[10:34] <Chipzz> my example is contrived, but a better example would be inline functions
[10:35] <geser> dnivra: use 'DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt"' when rebuilding apt
[10:36] <dnivra> use this option with './configure'?
[10:37] <geser> I'd use the apt source package for rebuilding (and get .deb without optimization)
[10:38] <Chipzz> dnivra: no, you have to change/add that Makefile
[10:38] <Chipzz> debian/rules
[10:38] <dnivra> i have actually been compiling that source to get the binary direct and not the deb.
[10:42] <dnivra> i just have to add " export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt"" to debian/rules?
[10:44] <geser> in that case using "DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt" debian/rules build" should be enough to get the binary
[10:49] <dnivra> this is a very beginner question i know. where am i supposed to specify that option?
[10:58] <dnivra> where am i supposed to specify DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt"? i added it to debian/rules still am getting optimized output.
[11:02] <geser> it's an environmental variable which gets checked in debian/rules
[11:02] <geser> set it before you build the package
[11:03] <geser> if you have the apt source package and the build-depends for apt installed then the command I posted should get you an apt binary without optimization
[11:04] <dnivra> did you mean build-essential?
[11:05] <geser> build-essential and the packages listed in debian/control (Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep)
[11:05] <Chipzz> geser: shouldn't that work if you put it at the top of debian/rules too?
[11:05] <dnivra> i don't think it does in my case cos I don't have those packages listed in debian/control installed perhaps. lemme check.
[11:06] <Chipzz> anyway I think you have 4 options: put it in the makefile, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt" debian/rules, debian/rules DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt", export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt"; debian/rules
[11:10] <dnivra> Chipzz, yeah got it! i did export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt";debian/rules. it worked. thanks! i'll keep this in mind. thanks to you too geser. now to understand and try to fix the bug.
[11:13] <\sh> moins
[13:05] <mdeslaur> @pilot in
[13:15] <sebner> slangasek: hi, on archive duty today? Mind rejecting one of the two monobristol uploads (maverick-proposed), and if bored approve it? :)
[13:18]  * dholbach hugs mdeslaur
[13:18] <dholbach> enjoy your flight with mdeslaur airlines :)
[13:38] <ScottK> micahg: If you still need something rejected, let me know what.
[13:39] <ScottK> sebner: I can reject one.  Which one?
[13:39] <sebner> ScottK: doesn't matter, both are the same
[13:43] <ScottK> sebner: Done.
[13:43] <bdrung> persia: around?
[13:43] <sebner> ScottK: take my thanks :)
[13:44] <persia> bdrung, What's up?
[13:45] <bdrung> persia: what are the responsibilities for the chair (except leading the meeting)?
[13:46] <persia> bdrung, Typically handling admin stuff (group adds, etc.), sending announcements, and writing minutes.
[13:46] <bdrung> persia: do we have a wiki page for that?
[13:47] <persia> Not to my knowledge.
[13:47] <bdrung> persia: then we need one
[13:47] <persia> I think there was one for the MC though.
[13:50] <persia> I think that got cleaned up when MC went away.  Why do we need one?  99% is self-evident from the meeting results (stuff being agreed), and the rest is just minutes.
[13:51] <persia> Ah, digging about, I think I agree we need one :)  There's some fair inconsistency historically.
[13:55] <ScottK> cjwatson: Nice post (and nice work) on fixing time synchronization.
[13:55] <cjwatson> thanks.  apparently I offended s-t-b upstream by not waiting for the upload :-/
[13:58] <bdrung> cjwatson: s-t-b?
[14:00] <cjwatson> system-tools-backends
[14:02] <bdrung> cjwatson: a, i got the mail.
[14:04] <zaytsev> [FAILEDTOUPLOAD] Failed to upload on litembilla (virtual) Retry this build
[14:04] <zaytsev> anybody has a clue what's wrong with this builder?
[14:05] <persia> zaytsev, #launchpad often is able to answer that sort of question.  I recommend providing a link to the LP page for the build.
[14:05] <zaytsev> persia, thanks
[14:22] <bigbrovar_> Hi guys, I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on a friend's sony vaio and sound did not work, even after installing all the restricted/backport modules for linux and alsa. The only thing which worked was compiling the latest stable version of alsa. Now is there a way I can write a dkms script to compile auto compile the module so that the next kernel updates wont break sound again.
[14:22] <bigbrovar_> would appreciate if anyone could point me to a doc somewhere google didn't help
[14:27] <geser> persia, bdrung: don't forget the update of the TeamReport wiki page
[14:29] <bdrung> geser: that demonstrates that we need a wiki page for it
[14:30] <geser> bdrung: updating the TeamReport is mentioned on the Agenda page
[14:31] <persia> geser, Good point.  Perhaps rather than a new page, we just need to break out the last bullet point a bit.
[14:32] <geser> what we regularly miss is mailing the outcomes of the applications to devel-permissions@ (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/)
[14:38] <persia> geser, Good point.  I've been sending individual announcements to u-d@ and minutes to d-p@+u-d-a@, which doesn't match what is written there.
[14:44] <bigbrovar_> are there docs on how to create dkms script to auto compile alsa modules I compiled on Ubuntu whenever I do a kernel upgrade, or am I asking a dumb question?
[14:45] <TeTeT> bigbrovar_: I'm only aware of http://linux.dell.com/dkms/, not sure if there's a better guide
[14:46] <bigbrovar_> thanks :)
[15:00] <didrocks> cjwatson: hey, is grub 1.99~20101126 is known to not starting X/gdm with nvidia proprieraty driver? I didn't find a bug in LP about it
[15:00] <didrocks> I think that dholbach got that as well
[15:00] <dholbach> didrocks, yes, same problem - but I'm not close to the machine right now
[15:01] <cjwatson> didrocks: not specifically, but please see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-foundations-n-grub2-boot-framebuffer
[15:02] <cjwatson> didrocks: we knew we were going to trigger some kernel problems with this change; we deliberately changed it early in natty so that the kernel problems could be worked out.  thus, please raise this with the kernel people
[15:02] <didrocks> ahah gfxpayload=keep, I already got that issue in maverick IIRC
[15:02] <cjwatson> yes
[15:02] <cjwatson> but please do raise it on the kernel side rather than just working around it and forgetting about it
[15:02] <dholbach> didrocks, I didn't use the 'nvidia' driver in maverick, so I probably wouldn't have noticed :)
[15:02] <didrocks> cjwatson: ok, I'll raise that with kernel people then just now. I'm not changing the config file to keep it in mind :)
[15:03] <didrocks> cjwatson: thanks :)
[15:22] <SpamapS> ari-tczew: to answer your question from a couple of days ago: yes I do these patches primarily as an employee of canonical.
[15:23] <ari-tczew> SpamapS: thanks
[15:30] <smoser> cjwatson, i'm sure you've got good reasoning for this, but I wondered why openssh-server installs both /etc/init.d/ssh and /etc/init/ssh.conf rather than using dh_installinit
[15:30] <cjwatson> smoser: bug 531912
[15:31] <cjwatson> (tl;dr: upstart can't supervise services in chroots yet)
[15:50] <nemo>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[15:50] <nemo>  2287 nemo      20   0 1562m 657m  13m S    0 17.2  25:16.21 nautilus
[15:50] <nemo>  1239 root      20   0  861m 515m 100m S    7 13.4 246:16.89 Xorg
[15:50] <nemo> looks like it is time for my bi-weekly ubuntu 10.10 reboot
[15:51] <jdstrand> didrocks: hey, so I am going through the unity bugs that affect me and commenting on them as well as filing my own. so, one thing that I think is a design decision (and therefore a bug would be possibly pointless) is not being able to use applets in the panel
[15:52] <jdstrand> didrocks: I typically use a hardware sensors, a system monitor and the hamster-applet (time tracker)
[15:52] <didrocks> jdstrand: yeah, it's a design decision. what you need is indicators
[15:52] <seb128> jdstrand, right, applet are deprecated in GNOME3
[15:53] <didrocks> and gnome-shell either won't support applets
[15:53] <jdstrand> didrocks: in Unity, I can no longer use these. I depended on the hardware sensors one for keeping tabs on my temp so my laptop doesn't melt
[15:53] <jdstrand> seb128: so all that code is now dead?
[15:53] <seb128> well you can use the logic and write an indicator
[15:53] <seb128> but it needs work yes
[15:53] <jdstrand> seb128: or is there some other way that I can use it in the new Unity world
[15:53] <seb128> no
[15:53] <jdstrand> *sigh*
[15:54] <jdstrand> seb128: so for my 3 favorite panel applets, I need to write the code to make them appindictor aware?
[15:54] <didrocks> jdstrand: right
[15:54] <Laney> could you have a panel-indicator? ;)
[15:54] <jdstrand> man...
[15:55] <jdstrand> didrocks: what is gnome3 doing about this?
[15:55] <didrocks> jdstrand: exactly the same, there is still gnome-panel for non accelerated support cases which still have applets
[15:55] <jdstrand> I mean surely, they plan to have some sort of equivalent functionality? I mean to just say "yeah, nobody uses the applets" is a little hard to swallow
[15:56] <seb128> they don't
[15:56] <jdstrand> didrocks: can I launch a gnome-panel in unity?
[15:56] <seb128> you can
[15:56] <seb128> you can put a gnome-panel at the bottom of screen if you want
[15:56] <didrocks> jdstrand: well, you can, but you will have conflicts as there will be two pagers (if you still keep the appplet)
[15:57] <jdstrand> I know you guys didn't design this, but this decision really sucks
[15:57] <jdstrand> there is good stuff in the old panel applets...
[15:58] <seb128> GNOME did a review by then
[15:58] <jdstrand> seb128, didrocks: again, I am not criticizing your decisions, just venting at the state of affairs
[15:58] <seb128> there was not so many things in applets that useful
[15:58] <seb128> not sure applets are the right way to display those infos
[15:58] <seb128> it's just that they are there
[15:58] <didrocks> most of applets are geeky, I agree
[15:58] <seb128> but maybe gadgets on the desktop would make sense
[15:59] <didrocks> I kept the default one + tomboy in my case, which is now an indicator
[15:59] <seb128> or you can write indicators as well
[15:59] <jdstrand> well, developers are geeky and need a dev environment. I would use the system monitor to make sure I didn't have runaway process
[15:59] <jdstrand> processes
[15:59] <didrocks> seb128: isn't why "The board" is aiming at, don't you think?
[15:59] <seb128> didrocks, sort of yes
[15:59] <mvo> yep, system monitor, network load, all useful info
[15:59] <jdstrand> I would use the hardware sensors to make sure my system didn't melt when compiling code
[15:59] <mvo> geeky, true
[15:59] <jdstrand> and hamster applet is a wonderful time tracking tool
[15:59] <mvo> timetracker
[15:59] <mvo> ++
[16:00] <seb128> nothing stop porting those to indicators
[16:00] <jdstrand> and arguably not geeky
[16:00] <jdstrand> sure, except time
[16:00] <jdstrand> (which is scarce in these parts)
[16:00] <seb128> well, nobody forces anybody to stop running gnome-panel
[16:01] <jdstrand> seb128: except that didrocks said there are conflicts in unity
[16:01] <seb128> it's just that standard users should not need them so it's not a priority
[16:01] <didrocks> jdstrand: the pager one (the window list)
[16:01] <seb128> jdstrand, if you keep the gnome-panel pager applet and run unity
[16:01] <seb128> just don't set any pager on gnome-panel
[16:01] <jdstrand> I'd like to run unity. I want to know what people see and file bugs so it is great by release
[16:01] <seb128> ok, so add an extra panel with only what you need
[16:01] <jdstrand> ah, just the window list
[16:01] <seb128> then put it at the bottom or something
[16:02] <jdstrand> well, maybe I can just do that then
[16:02] <didrocks> jdstrand: the good news is that you will have then alt + F2 before it's implemented in unity :)
[16:02] <jdstrand> \o/
[16:02] <jdstrand> (another annoying bug :)
[16:02] <jdstrand> didrocks, seb128: so how do I autostart the gnome-panel in the unity world?
[16:02] <seb128> jdstrand, go to system, preferences, session softwares and add a gnome-panel
[16:03]  * jdstrand doesn't see a System anymore
[16:03] <didrocks> hum, thinking about that, the new system session won't allow that…
[16:03] <jdstrand> I'll admit, I am fairly confused by Unity's organization. maybe it'll be better when Places is around
[16:04] <seb128> run gnome-session-properties
[16:04] <didrocks> jdstrand: yeah, without place, is harder :) ctrl + alt + t to open a terminal and then the command seb128 told ^
[16:04] <jdstrand> yes that works
[16:04] <seb128> jdstrand, there is no organisation yet, and yes should be better once you get the dash and places done
[16:04] <jdstrand> didrocks: are you saying that gnome-panel will not be able to be launched in the future?
[16:04] <jdstrand> autolaunched that is
[16:05] <didrocks> jdstrand: well, I'm thinking about the new session system I'm backporting and as unity will be told as providing a panel, that can be annoying
[16:05] <didrocks> jdstrand: so I'll get some test and work with upstream on it
[16:05] <didrocks> (upstream being there gnome-session)
[16:06] <seb128> didrocks, jdstrand: the way I described just adds an autostart desktop to the session
[16:06] <seb128> there is no reason that should stop working
[16:06] <seb128> that's how you would run your im client as well
[16:06] <seb128> or other things you want to start with your session
[16:07] <didrocks> seb128: not exactly, as unity will provide:panel now with the new system
[16:07] <jdstrand> seb128: ok, so if I do that, then make sure that I don't use the window list, I should be fine to sue my applets for the forseeable, yes?
[16:07] <didrocks> seb128: so gnome-panel will maybe tell "there is already a panel in that session"
[16:07] <seb128> didrocks, well, I described a way that doesn't touch required components
[16:07] <didrocks> seb128: hence the fact I'm thinking about it
[16:08] <didrocks> seb128: I'm talking about the new system which needs to touch required components
[16:08]  * jdstrand is worried
[16:08] <seb128> hum ok
[16:08] <seb128> I will let you sort that
[16:08] <seb128> jdstrand, yes
[16:08] <bdrung> cjwatson, cody-somerville, geser, persia, soren, stgraber: Quick reminder: DMB meeting it three hours.
[16:08] <didrocks> jdstrand: no worry, I'll look at that
[16:13] <jdstrand> didrocks: thanks. please at least allow for a way for us geeky developers to run some of our stuff, even if we have to jump a hoop or two to get there :)
[16:14] <didrocks> jdstrand: well, I think adding to the session is a reasonable tradeoff
[16:14] <didrocks> jdstrand: the thing is that it will impact your ubuntu classic session
[16:14] <jdstrand> didrocks: I am totally fine with that
[16:14] <didrocks> jdstrand: so, you will get the same one panel, and such…
[16:23] <jdstrand> hmmm, I am going to really screw up my Classic Desktop if I fiddle with this enough...
[16:24] <sebner> jdstrand: without using compiz \o/
[16:24] <didrocks> jdstrand: yeah, the configuration is common, it's basically the same issue I got in lucid for UNE vs gnome session
[16:26] <jdstrand> I wonder if I can just remove top_panel_screen0 from the /apps/panel/general/toplevel/toplevel_id_list...
[16:28] <didrocks> jdstrand: you can, but it will still impact both sessions
[16:29] <jdstrand> well, I can at least do gconftool-2 --dump /apps/panel > classic-panel.xml
[16:29] <jdstrand> and then use --load to get it back
[16:29] <jdstrand> that should be ok
[16:29] <didrocks> jdstrand: quite hackish but yeah :)
[16:29] <jdstrand> didrocks: sound reasonable?
[16:30] <didrocks> that should work :)
[16:30] <jdstrand> I hope to not go back. I just want a safety net :)
[16:30] <didrocks> in fact, it's not very different to what compiz is currently doing with the gconf backend on profile change
[16:34] <doko> ScottK: any progress on 661901?
[16:52] <hallyn_> hm, if i don't miss my guess, installing banshee caused me to lose all my radio links in rhythmbox
[16:54] <micahg> ScottK: aspell-id, the packager is going through Debian instead and the version should've been different
[16:55] <ScottK> Looking
[16:56] <ScottK> micahg: Looks like someone got it already.
[16:57] <micahg> ScottK: ok, great, thanks
[17:01] <ScottK> doko: Updated.
[17:02] <mdeslaur> @pilot out
[17:04] <doko> ScottK: did you look at these packages at all?
[17:05] <ScottK> doko: I did not review the source.  I was just trying to help clear up component mismatches and Main depwait when I filed the original bug.
[17:26] <ScottK> doko or barry: Will you merge python-defaults from Experimental (I don't have time to look at it this week, but it would enable me to sync the last non-dh_python2 Python package I maintain in Debian).
[17:27] <doko> I can do this this week
[17:33] <cjwatson> ScottK: if it helps any by way of motivation, I just merged ebroder's backport-helper branch into ubuntu-archive-tools
[17:33] <ScottK> cjwatson: That's great news.
[17:33] <cjwatson> I would love to have a real backport request to try it out on. :-)
[17:39] <ScottK> cjwatson: Bug #685982
[17:40] <ScottK> That should be good to go.
[17:40]  * cjwatson gives it a go
[17:43] <cjwatson> (looks ok, I'm just beefing up the script a bit in light of that)
[17:44]  * ScottK nods
[17:50] <quadrispro> hi all!
[17:50] <quadrispro> ScottK, thanks for bug #685982
[17:53] <cjwatson> quadrispro: we're running it as a test case for the new archive admin backport-helper tool
[17:53] <quadrispro> good to know
[18:05] <cjwatson> ScottK,ebroder: excellent.  I made some extensions (although ebroder's initial version was perfectly functional), and this seems to be working quite smoothly now.
[18:05] <cjwatson> ScottK,ebroder: I think I can commit to running this just as frequently as I run sync-helper now, which is normally at least once per working day.
[18:06] <ScottK> cjwatson: Great.  It seems then that some documentation on the archive-admin page and we're done.
[18:06] <ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.  That will help a lot.
[18:06] <cjwatson> yep, off to do that now
[18:06] <cjwatson> mind you, sync-helper isn't documented either
[18:08] <ScottK> Ah.  Good point.
[18:14] <cjwatson> done now
[18:14] <cjwatson> ebroder: the one thing this doesn't get quite right is that it uses the requestor as the Changed-By, rather than the backport-approver as specified in ArchiveAdministration.  Maybe this needs to scan through comments for a backports team member or something?
[18:15] <cjwatson> (Changed-By> i.e. -b in mass-sync.py input)
[18:23] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have loaded a bug fix on the PDF filters into the CUPS repo, please take it into account when uploading.
[18:24] <mterry> RoAkSoAx, were you going to do the -V thing for cluster-glue or were you still waiting on feedback?
[18:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: why did you "merge" the new upstream release commit?
[18:29] <tkamppeter> pitti, I did the following:
[18:30] <tkamppeter> I did "bzr pull" and got "up to date", then I applied the patch from Koji Otani and tested it, taking something like half an hour. Then I made a debian/changelog entry.
[18:31] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, I cleaned up; can you please do "bzr pull --overwrite" in your checkout?
[18:31] <tkamppeter> pitti, after that I did "bzr commit" and "bzr push"
[18:32] <pitti> tkamppeter: oops, forgot something; fixed, please pull --overwrite again
[18:32] <tkamppeter> So my patch is now in the repo, too?
[18:32] <\sh> micahg: I'm preparing zend-framework 1.11.1 for upload...could you do the backport stuff later on? :)
[18:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes
[18:33] <tkamppeter> pitti, thank, and sorry, it was really a coincidence, we worked on CUPS exactly at the same time.
[18:33] <micahg> \sh: yep, thanks
[18:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, apparently; sorry for the mid-air collision
[18:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you have other things you want to land in cups, or should I do an upload?
[18:33] <\sh> micahg: thx a lot :)
[18:35] <tkamppeter> pitti, now you can do it, thanks.
[18:35] <pitti> ok
[18:44] <\sh> micahg: uploaded
[18:47] <RoAkSoAx> mterry: I'm doing the -V thing, I just wanted to test some other unrelated stuff before uploading
[18:55] <mterry> RoAkSoAx, OK, no rush.  Just wanted to make sure you weren't waiting on me
[18:58] <RoAkSoAx> mterry: ok :). Will let you know when I upload! Thanks!
[19:14] <kees> @pilot in
[19:36] <ari-tczew> kees: could you sponsor this one? https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/natty/php5/fix-mssql-segfault/+merge/42705
[19:37] <kees> ari-tczew: sure, let me take a look at it. thanks for bringing it up. :)
[19:39] <kees> ari-tczew: can you flip your review to "approved" for that one, if you're okay with it?
[19:41] <ari-tczew> kees: for above case I need again testbuild, let me look
[19:41] <kees> ari-tczew: oh, I thought your review comments were mostly about the patch format?
[19:42] <ari-tczew> kees: quite. why you ask?
[19:42] <kees> ari-tczew: I guess I meant, it doesn't need a rebuild test if it was just the patch formatting you wanted to see changed. if the way it looks is good with you, I can upload it.
[19:43] <kees> ari-tczew: but I was hoping you could change your review from "Needs Fixing" to "Approved"
[19:43] <ari-tczew> kees: aha, I would like test build again.
[19:43] <kees> ari-tczew: okay, sounds good
[19:43] <ari-tczew> to make sure
[19:44]  * kees nods. good idea
[19:45] <ari-tczew> kees: so for time building, could you sponsor my merge? bug 684874
[19:45] <kees> ari-tczew: sure! let me go read that one too.
[19:48] <ari-tczew> kees: btw I had an a case to security team and I would to be on meeting, but I've falled asleep :/
[19:48] <ari-tczew> fallen *
[19:48] <kees> ari-tczew: no worries, feel free to email too.
[19:49] <ari-tczew> kees: nothing important
[19:49] <kees> ari-tczew: so, for rabbitmq-server, did you review the diff between 2.2.0-0ubuntu1 and 2.2.0-1 ?
[19:49] <ari-tczew> kees: yes
[19:49] <ari-tczew> I have it on disk
[19:50] <kees> okay, cool.
[19:50] <lifeless> kees: hey hey
[19:50] <kees> let me finish the php5 thing, and I'll do this one next. one moment...
[19:50] <lifeless> kees: so, i didn't hear back
[19:50] <kees> heya lifeless
[19:50] <lifeless> kees: hows the performance?
[19:50] <kees> lifeless: let me start a quick download, one sec.
[19:55] <kees> lifeless: reasonably fast, no 503s. I remain happy. :)
[19:56] <lifeless> :)
[20:00] <zzak> Hello everyone, I was wondering where might be the best place to ask about maintaining an out of date package for ubuntu? It's been over 2 years since the last release.
[20:05] <kees> ari-tczew: okay, looking at rabbitmq-server closely now. Usually, it's easier to review a debdiff between the Debian package version and the to-be-uploaded Ubuntu package version. In this case, 2.2.0-1 vs 2.2.0-1ubuntu1. Your debdiff is between 2.2.0-0ubuntu1 and 2.2.0-1ubuntu1.
[20:06] <kees> I think what you've got is very close to correct if not already 100% correct, but I'm just poking at it from the other direction now.
[20:07] <mterry> lifeless, ping about python package names
[20:09] <vorian>  /12
[20:09] <lifeless> mterry: hi
[20:10] <mterry> lifeless, I just fixed a bug you filed about the name of python-quickly-widgets (nee quickly-widgets).  But realized that in your bug, you recommended python-quickly.widgets.  Is that right?  With the period instead of a dash?
[20:11] <lifeless> mterry: foo-bar isn't a valid python module name
[20:11] <lifeless> mterry: is the code accessed via 'import quickly.widgets' ?
[20:12] <lifeless> mterry: if so then the package/module *is* 'quickly.widgets' and the package name should be python-$packagename -> python-quickly.widgets
[20:12] <lifeless> mterry: see e.g. python-zope.interfaces
[20:12] <kees> ari-tczew: I'll be uploading this shortly; have you forwarded the delta to Debian for rabbitmq-server by any chance?
[20:13] <ari-tczew> kees: I thought that this is Ubuntu-related delta.
[20:13] <kees> ari-tczew: there's a debian change to the watch file too, which I figure should probably track Debian.
[20:13] <mterry> lifeless, understood.  I just had a hard time finding that in the policy manual, so I thought I'd ping you.  This package also provides quickly.prompts, but that is a secondary smaller module, so I believe the policy says it can just be subsumed into the more important quickly.widgets package?
[20:13] <kees> ari-tczew: it's not clear to me. neither Ubuntu nor Debian had rabbitmq-server packages prior to version 1.6.0, so I'm not sure why that delta is there at all.
[20:13] <lifeless> mterry: policy is pretty flexible here, for good or bad :)
[20:14] <ari-tczew> kees: I also dunno.
[20:14] <ebroder> mterry: It's in the Python policy. http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html#s-package_names
[20:14] <ebroder> Err...I thought it was. Maybe it's not
[20:14] <lifeless> ebroder: its not precise enough to disambiguate
[20:15] <lifeless> ebroder: perhaps we should propose a patch to clarfiy
[20:15] <ScottK> Patches welcome.
[20:15] <lifeless> ebroder: the handling of multiple modules is there.
[20:15] <ebroder> lifeless: I definitely saw something somewhere recently that wasn't ambiguous...
[20:15] <mterry> lifeless, a simple example would be good
[20:16] <kees> ari-tczew: actually, based on bug #506985, I think this delta should have been dropping in maverick/
[20:16] <kees> zul: can you verify that to be true?
[20:16] <kees> zul, ari-tczew: if so, this should just be a sync.
[20:17] <zul> reading backlog
[20:17] <ari-tczew> +1
[20:18] <zul> kees: yeah it was in the release notes when they upgraded from the previous verison they get a warning
[20:18] <lifeless> mterry: anyhow, long answer short: the . is deliberate and appropriate
[20:18] <kees> zul: right, but it should have only been for Lucid, right? If that's true, we can just drop this delta and sync?
[20:18] <mterry> lifeless, gotcha, will fix
[20:18] <zul> kees: right
[20:19] <kees> zul: sync it is. :)
[20:20] <kees> jdstrand: can I borrow you for a moment to perform a sync for me? rabbitmq-server care of bug #684874?
[20:20] <jdstrand> kees: sure
[20:20] <ari-tczew> kees: or you can use script syncpackage :)
[20:21] <kees> ari-tczew: that just creates a new bug; I wanted to actually close the merge you had open (I converted that merge bug into a sync bug)
[20:22] <ari-tczew> kees: syncpackage rabbitmq-server -b 684874
[20:23] <ebroder> kees: You're confusing requestsync and syncpackage
[20:23] <ari-tczew> kees: however, I'm fine with converted request. let's jdstrand do this (:
[20:24] <kees> ebroder: ah, so I am. what does syncpackage actually do? isn't it preferred for archive admins to do the sync?
[20:24] <cjwatson> It is.
[20:24] <cjwatson> syncs happen in <1 working day nowadays.
[20:24] <kees> ah, righto. quick read of the code shows that syncpackage is just a manual sync. I'll wait for jdstrand to DTRT instead. :)
[20:25] <ebroder> cjwatson: Is there an interesting difference in end result between the archive admins doing a sync and syncpackage doing a sync?
[20:26] <kees> SpamapS: I'll be uploading your php5 merge in a few minutes; waiting for the testsuite to finish now.
[20:26] <ebroder> cjwatson: Oh, also - I'll take a look at fixing the uploaded-by for backport-helper. I wasn't paying attention when I picked what name to use there. Something like looking for the "last backports team member that set the bug to IN PROGRESS" should be easy
[20:26] <cjwatson> ebroder: we might be willing to debug it if something went wrong with the former. :)
[20:26] <cjwatson> (it's a verbatim copy and there are essentially no checks that it really is verbatim - having it be server-side is more robust)
[20:26] <cjwatson> ebroder: cool, thanks
[20:33] <SpamapS> kees: awesome thanks! :)
[20:37] <kees> jdstrand: thanks!
[20:39] <kees> ari-tczew: thanks for the help! php5 has been uploaded, and rabbitmq-server synced. :)
[20:40] <jdstrand> kees: sure!
[20:44] <ari-tczew> kees: np. I want to review also main requests as it's helpful to clean up SQ.
[20:49] <ari-tczew> kees: every patch pilot from Canonical works on cleaning up ?
[20:49] <smoser> cjwatson, you have a suggestion about how i can put a change into /etc/grub/default and register that change such that subsequent 'update-grub' will not prompt user for merge ?
[20:49] <smoser> (this is on lucid)
[20:49] <kees> ari-tczew: well, I'm just trying to knock items off the sponsor queue, yeah
[20:50] <cjwatson> smoser: update-grub never prompts for mergign
[20:50] <cjwatson> *merging
[20:51] <smoser> oh. you're right. it does not. i should have subsequent grub-pc install/upgrade
[20:51] <cjwatson> smoser: you can't, then, it's a dpkg conffile
[20:51] <cjwatson> trying to muck with that makes the problem worse
[20:51] <cjwatson> it's best to keep conffile changes simple
[20:51] <smoser> hm... well, maybe you can suggest a different path for me then.
[20:52] <cjwatson> currently in an overrunning meeting and with a splitting headache ... not really in the right frame of mind to be able to think creatively :)
[20:52] <smoser> alright. i'll send a mail then.
[20:57] <ari-tczew> kees: btw, you have 2 things sponsored for me (non-security stuff), I'm curious whether this number will grow up. (:
[21:24] <soren> cjwatson, smoser: /etc/default/grub isn't a conffile.
[21:24] <soren> (assuming that's what is meant when you say /etc/grub/default)
[21:25] <smoser> soren, (at least on lucid) try changing a value there, and then 'apt-get install --reinstall grub-pc'. you'll get a prompt that is a result of
[21:25] <smoser>     ucf --three-way --debconf-ok --sum-file=/usr/share/grub/default/grub.md5sum ${tmp_default_grub} /etc/default/grub
[21:26] <soren> Precisely.
[21:26] <smoser> so no, not a conf file, but that is my issue.
[21:26] <soren> ucf => not a conffile
[21:26] <smoser> you're right.
[21:27] <soren> I've seen various tricks applied for this sort of thing.
[21:27] <soren> grub (old grub) had some magic for it.
[21:28] <ebroder> soren, smoser: I thought the fact that ucf is doing a 3-way meant that you should only get prompted once (at least until the next time upstream /etc/default/grub changed)
[21:29] <soren> True.
[21:29] <smoser> ebroder, while that may be the case, its still less than ideal for me.
[21:29] <soren> There's a command line option to update ucf's cache.
[21:29] <smoser> it doesn't work here, as far as I can tell. i've tried.
[21:29] <soren> smoser: Really? Sorry, I must have misunderstood what you're trying to achive?
[21:29] <kees> jdstrand: can I bug you for another sync? this time from experimental? bug #686099, request from the debian maintainer.
[21:30] <smoser> because sum-file comes from /usr/share/grub/default/grub.md5sum (which is part of the package, and will contain the new version).
[21:30] <jdstrand> kees: sure
[21:30] <kees> jdstrand: thanks!
[21:30] <ebroder> smoser: That's only for versions of the file that existed before the package switched to ucf. ucf also maintains its own cache
[21:31] <smoser> i've tried, mabye i'm missing something.
[21:31] <soren> Explain what you've tried.
[21:31] <smoser> sudo ucfr --debug --verbose grub-pc /etc/default/grub
[21:32] <smoser> ie, a.) make change to /etc/default/grub b.) run ucfr grub-pc /etc/default/grub c.) run sudo apt-get install --reinstall grub-pc
[21:32] <smoser> d.) get prompted
[21:34] <smoser> soren, is that not what i should expect would tell ucf that I have updated that file?
[21:34] <soren> smoser: Er... Even on reinstall?
[21:34] <jdstrand> kees: done
[21:35] <soren> smoser: That should never trigger a prompt. Even if you didn't muck about with ucfr.
[21:36]  * jdstrand waves hi to soren 
[21:36] <soren> smoser: If the package being installed doesn't contain a change to the contents of the file compared to the last installed version of the same package, any changes you made to the file are just kept.
[21:36] <soren> jdstrand: dude!
[21:36] <jdstrand> :)
[21:37] <soren> smoser: That's what dpkg does (and ucf attempts to mimic).
[21:37] <smoser> well, it is doing that for me. on ec2 instance.  possibly i'm doing something terribly rude in image build
[21:38] <soren> smoser: Possibly.
[21:38] <soren> smoser: Can you reproduce it on your laptop?
[21:38] <soren> smoser: My test involes changing one of the comments in the file.
[21:38] <smoser> comment wont work.
[21:39] <soren> Oh, it's filtered?
[21:39] <smoser> has to be somethign that will get through to /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[21:39] <soren> Bah, of course.
[21:39] <soren> Same thing.
[21:39] <soren> Oh, hang on.
[21:40] <smoser> the thing i'm changing is '#GRUB_TERMINAL=console'
[21:40] <smoser> uncommenting
[21:40] <smoser> but also changes to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT= like adding 'foo=bar' affect it (on 10.04)
[21:41] <soren> On 10.10 as well.
[21:42] <soren> That shouldn't happen.
[21:42] <smoser> tried on natty, and do not get prompted
[21:44] <soren> Aah...
[21:44] <soren> Ok.
[21:47] <smoser> its strange, i'm not seeing the issue now though. soren did you have an explanation ?
[21:47] <soren> Half.
[21:49] <smoser> do you care to share ?
[21:49] <soren> I'm trying to :)
[21:50]  * smoser puts hands to temples and attempts to get soren's mind message
[21:50] <soren> Don't. You'll be as confused as I am.
[21:51] <RoAkSoAx> slangasek: howdy!! I have a question regaring a library split. In debian/rules, there's a binary-common: target on which dh_makeshlibs is without the -V option. This -V is necessary if there are no .symbols files, right?
[21:53] <mdeslaur> cjwatson: we're not installing gnome-system-tools anymore in natty? no more graphical tool to add a second user?
[21:57] <soren> smoser: Sorry, I don't think I can wrap my head around this at this hour.
[21:58] <smoser> no problem. have a nice night soren.
[21:58] <RoAkSoAx> win 5
[22:15] <SpamapS> woohoo.. cassandra packages running unit tests. :)
[22:16] <lifeless> nice
[22:34] <RoAkSoAx> mterry: ok I think i'm ready to upload. Were you able to get feedback for the -V to dh_makeshlibs?
[22:35] <mterry> RoAkSoAx, oh no, I wasn't yet.  I'll ping tomorrow
[22:35] <RoAkSoAx> mterry: should I wait to upload, or should I just go ahead and do it?
[22:37] <mterry> RoAkSoAx, uh I guess upload and we can always back it out.  I think the assumption was that if this other package did it, it was the correct thing, right?  I'm just double-confirming with someone who would actually konw
[22:48] <RoAkSoAx> mterry: alright then. it is done :)!
[22:51] <Sarvatt> nasty, I've counted at least 150 bugs here so far caused by this limitation not being more common knowledge - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/562312/comments/7
[22:53] <ebroder> Sarvatt: Workaround: use a USB drive larger than 4G, so that the FAT file size limitations prevent users from actually using all remaining space
[22:54]  * ebroder ducks
[23:48] <bdrung> persia: around?