[01:49] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the more I use the new panels, the more I like it. It is very streamlined for use. 
[07:07] <TheSheep> new panels? where?
[09:36] <mr_pouit> it's just that the new panel switched all its config to xfconf, so the xubuntu-default-settings parameters don't work anymore in natty
[09:37] <mr_pouit> (but yeah, it's probably a good time to reconsider the layout we use in xubuntu)
[09:38] <mr_pouit> and no, you should not upgrade now, really ;]
[09:39] <TheSheep> one thing that I like in my panel is the large desktop switcher right in the middle of it
[11:04] <ochosi> mr_pouit: i agree on rethinking the panel-layout
[11:05] <ochosi> mr_pouit: as soon as i've installed natty i'll try to work on one
[11:05] <ochosi> (i mean on a good layout)
[11:10] <TheSheep> ochosi: how would you do it?
[11:13] <mr_pouit> I think he plans to use 20 floating panels to form the "ochosi" word :p
[11:26] <TheSheep> I was more interested in the process of coming up with a good layout
[11:26] <TheSheep> I never actually saw how it is done
[12:36] <ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe
[12:36] <ochosi> TheSheep: well, i guess i'll just try a few different layouts and use them for a while
[13:17] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[13:33] <TheSheep> ochosi: I see, that easy
[13:37] <charlie-tca> I kind of like that bottom panel with the launchers in it, myself
[13:38] <charlie-tca> Using Application Finder to launch apps instead of menus is a little strange at first, but works well when you get used to it.
[13:39] <TheSheep> http://www.sheep.art.pl/misc/shot.png <-- my favorite layout, since 1999
[13:39] <TheSheep> :)
[13:40] <TheSheep> but I don't use a taskbar
[13:40] <charlie-tca> You would like what is in natty now, then
[13:41] <TheSheep> obligatory taskbar?
[13:41] <charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/126610
[13:41] <charlie-tca> You can remove the top panel completely
[13:42] <TheSheep> you always could
[13:42] <TheSheep> the key thing for me is that workspace switcher
[13:42] <TheSheep> I use it instead of taskbar
[13:43] <TheSheep> different sets of apps on different workspaces
[13:43] <charlie-tca> That's what I run. 7 workspaces now
[13:44] <TheSheep> the point is, with ubuntu's panels the workspace switcher is too small to be useful
[13:44] <TheSheep> you cannot easily drag the windows or even see the icons
[13:44] <TheSheep> with xfce-style panel it can be much bigger
[13:44] <charlie-tca> true enough
[13:45] <charlie-tca> I am trying different things with it. today it is in the bottom panel, with the launchers, so I can grow it bigger 
[13:45] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I think you can add a menu back, it should work ;)
[13:45] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: it did. But I thought I could try with just app finder too
[13:46] <mr_pouit> aah, ok :p
[13:46] <mr_pouit> for 4.10 they have some ideas about that, i.e. merge xfrun and appfinder
[13:48] <ochosi> hm, why not just make a "menu"-launcher that launches the app-finder instead of showing the menu?
[13:50] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: ah, btw, xfce4-panel 4.8 is (almost) a complete rewrite, so the backtraces we got with the 4.6 one will probably be useless. So you can decide either to close existing bugs, or maybe ask the reporters to retry with natty... (I don't know what the bugsquad recommends in these cases)
[13:50] <charlie-tca> ochosi: that is the default
[13:50] <ablomen> mr_pouit, ooh ooh are there going to be new python/perl/whatever bindings too?
[13:50] <charlie-tca> It's the magnifying glass in the image
[13:51] <ochosi> charlie-tca: a-ha, haven't tried natty yet. but it sounds like a cool idea
[13:51] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: really?
[13:51] <ochosi> charlie-tca: k, maybe we need a clearer icon for it
[13:51] <charlie-tca> I will close some, and request a re-test with others then
[13:52] <charlie-tca> ochosi: yes. Perhaps our logo would be better. There is a choice to display text only or icon, too
[13:52] <ochosi> yep, maybe text-only would be cool
[13:52] <charlie-tca> If I follow this layout right, the bottom panel is just a panel with some launchers added to it
[13:53] <mr_pouit> ablomen: I know there are some bindings for thunar (thunarx-python), but I'm not up-to-date for pyxfce (and none of them are packaged for the moment)
[13:53] <charlie-tca> I didn't like text only, because it grabs the text from app finder, and things like firefox came out wayyyy ling
[13:53] <charlie-tca> long, too
[13:53] <ochosi> k, i thought maybe the names are truncated
[13:54] <mr_pouit> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/migrate/default.xml for the current vanilla default config from upstream
[13:54] <charlie-tca> The text for it is something like "Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Web browser" 
[13:54] <charlie-tca> That's what I picked when it upgraded, mr_pouit 
[13:54] <mr_pouit> yeah
[13:54] <charlie-tca> Gave like three choices, default, keep old, and something else
[13:55] <ablomen> yeah there where some undocumented python bindings for xfce panel somewhere, but also not packaged (and not really working), ah well i will wait and see if something happens in that respect
[13:56] <mr_pouit> in the top panel you have "actions | tasklist | pager | clock | systray", and the bottom one, only "show desktop | term | file manager | webbrowser | appfinder"
[13:56] <charlie-tca> yup
[13:56] <charlie-tca> term/
[13:56] <charlie-tca> term didn't show on here. I got three blank launchers instead
[13:57] <charlie-tca> Maybe because I had launchers in the panel already?
[13:57] <mr_pouit> mmh, there should be a "directory menu" item next to the appfinder also
[13:59] <charlie-tca> Yeah, that one kind of sucks, too
[13:59] <charlie-tca> It shows the /home/USER directory, and is hard to use
[14:00] <ochosi> is that something like the places-plugin currently?
[14:00] <charlie-tca> no
[14:00] <charlie-tca> It is a full list of /home/USER without hidden files
[14:00] <ochosi> is it configurable?
[14:00] <ochosi> i mean: can you define what folder it shows
[14:00] <charlie-tca> No shortcuts, no way to pick anything outside of /home/USER
[14:01] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: right click on it?
[14:01] <mr_pouit> you can't configure it?
[14:01] <mr_pouit> ochosi: _Comment=Show a directory tree in a menu
[14:01] <charlie-tca> You can choose to start in a different directory
[14:01] <charlie-tca> So, I guess choosing / would show the entire computer without hidden files
[14:02] <mr_pouit> yep
[14:02] <charlie-tca> Still not as functional as places
[14:02] <mr_pouit> yep, but I'm afraid we'll have to drop places from the default panel layout
[14:02] <ochosi> yeah, it's kinda different i guess
[14:03] <ochosi> but it sounds interesting
[14:03] <ochosi> is the plugin not compatible anymore?
[14:03] <mr_pouit> because it still relies on thunar-vfs and not gio
[14:03] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I would like orage back
[14:03] <ochosi> yes, a calendar like orage would be cool
[14:04] <mr_pouit> so mounting removable volumes will be awful (you can't unmount with thunar-vfs something you mounted with gio iirc)
[14:04] <mr_pouit> yeah yeah, gimme some time :p
[14:04] <ochosi> someone on xfce-dev said that its codebase is very ugly, so no-one wants to port it
[14:04] <charlie-tca> I don't like the calendar so much as the clocks
[14:04] <ochosi> mr_pouit: so orage is compatible with the new panel?
[14:04] <charlie-tca> I can have gmt and local time on the panel with orage
[14:04] <mr_pouit> ochosi: yes
[14:05] <mr_pouit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Natty/Xfce4.8
[14:05] <mr_pouit> if it's listed here, I still haven't uploaded the new version
[14:06] <mr_pouit> I've done 13 of them yesterday and the day before, still 25 to go
[14:06] <ochosi> wow, you've actually come quite far already
[14:06] <ochosi> congrats
[14:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit is the BEST! He does a great job getting things done
[14:07] <ochosi> true
[14:08] <mr_pouit> well, these 13 were the easy ones... :p
[14:25] <ochosi> :)
[14:41] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: lightDM will be usable this cycle 
[14:53] <mr_pouit> really? that's nice
[15:03] <charlie-tca> well, not really the enthusiam I hoped for, but at least you acknowledged it, huh?
[15:35] <ochosi> do you plan to use lightdm in xubuntu?
[15:36] <charlie-tca> I have hopes yet, but it will be up to mr_pouit as to whether or not we really can
[15:37] <charlie-tca> He might have his hands full with the xfce4.8 merges 
[15:38] <ochosi> mmh, i guess that's higher priority for now
[15:40] <ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, it would be nice if you could test greybird with natty/xfce4.8, just to see how it works out
[15:43] <charlie-tca> I can do that. You have to tell me how and where to get it again, though. I seem to be slow on these things
[15:44] <ochosi> hehe, np
[15:44] <ochosi> just dl the tarball from here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors
[15:44] <ochosi> or if you like, you can also install mercurial and then sync it every now and then
[15:44] <ochosi> but i have to say i don't work on it on a daily basis, so don't expect too many updates ;)
[15:46] <charlie-tca> I don't get along with those kinds of things. I will just download it when you tell me to
[15:47] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: well, I gave a quick look at the reported bugs, and it seems there are still many issues (and another debian pkg-xfce maintainer who is working on that found several issues too)
[15:47] <mr_pouit> but if robert says that lightdm will be usable this cycle, that's fine
[15:47] <charlie-tca> Okay, thank you for looking
[15:47] <mr_pouit> I'm happy to drop this *ùù*ù$^^$ gdm3
[15:47] <charlie-tca> Robert said Lubuntu is looking to use it, too
[15:48] <mr_pouit> okay great ;>
[15:48] <charlie-tca> It will stay gtk2 this cycle, too
[15:48] <ochosi> charlie-tca: sure, i'll let you know when there are major changes
[15:48] <charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi 
[15:48] <ochosi> charlie-tca: for now feel free to drop me general feedback
[15:48] <charlie-tca> Okiedokie
[15:48] <charlie-tca> installing now in natty
[15:49] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i just want to avoid this "last-minute-artwork"-tradition xubuntu has/had
[15:49] <ochosi> k nice
[15:49] <mr_pouit> let's be optimistic and say "had" :p
[15:49] <charlie-tca> That would really be great! I keep hoping to avoid that, too
[15:49] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I will keep in touch with Robert on it and try to keep you informed
[15:49] <ochosi> well since we're already looking at arty stuff i think we're already avoiding it ;)
[15:50] <charlie-tca> :-)
[15:50] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: do you know if he plans to take care of the packaging himself? (upload it in natty, etc.)
[15:50] <mr_pouit> (that would be great ;p)
[15:51] <charlie-tca> I don't know yet, but I will ask him
[15:54] <ochosi> btw who is robert?
[15:55] <mr_pouit> Robert Ancell, the developer of lightdm
[15:55] <ochosi> ah right
[15:55] <ochosi> i read about lightdm some time ago on planet.ubuntu
[15:55] <mr_pouit> (also an upstream gnome developer, the dev of simple-scan, and probably also a canonical employee)
[15:55] <ochosi> guess that was himself postnig
[15:56] <ochosi> i see, a guy with multiple identities :)
[15:56] <charlie-tca> unlike so many of us ;-)
[15:56] <ochosi> hehe
[15:58] <charlie-tca> OMG! colors in the panel I can see
[15:58] <charlie-tca> ochosi: faenza icon set ?
[15:59] <ochosi> you mean the one i'm working on?
[15:59] <charlie-tca> No, the one I should use with greybird
[15:59] <ochosi> http://shimmerproject.org/hg/faenza-xfce
[15:59] <ochosi> try this one
[15:59] <ochosi> it's not complete yet
[15:59] <charlie-tca> I don't think the one I have is either, but some of the icons have changed lately
[16:00] <ochosi> see this page for a list of open issues with the icons: http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:faenza_for_xfce
[16:00] <ochosi> (you could maybe collect all that info in an artwork-wiki-page for natty)
[16:01] <charlie-tca> I will do that. Then I can other people where it all is easily
[16:01] <ochosi> great
[16:01] <ochosi> also: if you could add some contact details for me in case people find issues that are not yet on that list
[16:02] <charlie-tca> Will do
[16:02] <ochosi> sry, g2g now
[16:02] <ochosi> see you guys around
[16:04] <charlie-tca> thanks
[20:50] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I uploaded the new orage ;)
[20:51] <charlie-tca> w00t! thank you. You have my thanks at least through this cycle!
[20:52] <mr_pouit> huhu, no problem ;>
[20:52] <mr_pouit> (I hope it'll work ;D)
[20:52] <charlie-tca> I will find out as soon as it shows up in upgrades