| RAOF | Would you believe it? Destroying buffers before you've finished rendering from them makes for some crazy rendering. | 01:55 |
|---|---|---|
| * RAOF feels rather stupid. | 01:55 | |
| RAOF | Yup. There goes the flickering! | 01:59 |
| DanaG | okay, so I got the magic trackpad... and it doesn't scroll or anything. | 03:30 |
| DanaG | Is something I should go to #ubuntu for? | 03:32 |
| RAOF | It should do 2, 3 & 4 finger gestures under Unity, IIRC. | 03:38 |
| DanaG | ah, what I'd want is the same as regular Synaptics, at least. | 03:40 |
| RAOF | You *should* be able to get synaptics to claim it by judicious editing of config files; you'll lose gesture support there, though. | 03:40 |
| DanaG | Scrolling (2-finger and/or edge, though Gnome devs think nobody could possibly ever want both), and middle and right button are most important. | 03:41 |
| RAOF | I _think_ gesture support should handle 2 finger scroll, though. Again, only under Unity | 03:41 |
| DanaG | Stupid apple... 2-finger right-click, but where the heck's my MIDDLE button? | 03:41 |
| DanaG | I use middle way more than I use right, when browsing. | 03:41 |
| DanaG | Oh, and when I hold the lower edge, all movement stops. | 03:42 |
| DanaG | Correction: as long as two fingers are on the board, literally nothing happens when I move the fingers. | 03:43 |
| bjsnider | DanaG, what device is this? | 04:32 |
| DanaG | Magic Trackpad. | 04:34 |
| DanaG | I won't go to +1 until I can get... ATI driver... to work with new X server. | 04:40 |
| RAOF | fglrx? We haven't got a new X server in Natty yet. | 04:50 |
| DanaG | hmm, is there anything else significantly new in natty, anyway? | 04:53 |
| RAOF | Well, new kernel. | 04:53 |
| RAOF | (Slightly) newer mesa. | 04:53 |
| RAOF | New -intel,... | 04:53 |
| DanaG | Radeon uses too much power... runs warm and noisy. | 04:53 |
| DanaG | Random aside: why is it even called a "trackpad", anyway? You touch it, not track it! | 04:54 |
| DanaG | I'm tracking my mouse.... oops, it got away! | 04:54 |
| RAOF | Even if you set dynpm? | 04:54 |
| DanaG | Yeah, last time I checked, dynpm didn't use lowest-power modes, and even with fixed low, it still uses like 8 watts more than fglrx. | 04:54 |
| DanaG | Hey, if a trackpad is called such because it "tracks" you... then we should call webcams WATCHcams, because they WATCH you. =þ | 04:55 |
| DanaG | ah, I'm switching the "magic" thing to Synaptics. | 04:56 |
| DanaG | Regression with the change from hal to xorg.conf.d: changing .conf file doesn't take effect merely by reattaching device! | 04:58 |
| DanaG | Well, either that, or the 60-magictrackpad.conf isn't what defines the driver. | 05:00 |
| DanaG | I changed it to say synaptics, and it's still using udev. | 05:00 |
| RAOF | evdev, you mean. | 05:01 |
| DanaG | er, yeah. | 05:01 |
| DanaG | Say, does using /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d still break everything by making it ignore /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ? | 05:02 |
| RAOF | I don't think so. | 05:03 |
| DanaG | I created a new file (61) with identifier "Magic Trackpad, damnit"... and it doesn't use the file. | 05:03 |
| DanaG | I used to be able to do this for synaptics: change the fdi file, then unload and reload psmouse. | 05:04 |
| DanaG | Well, time to ctrl-alt-backspace, then. grr. | 05:05 |
| DanaG | Okay, restart did it... though now i'm screwed by the "can't have both" limitation. | 05:09 |
| DanaG | Built-in touchpad won't do multi-finger... so I get edge scrolling with magic. | 05:10 |
| DanaG | Well, it WILL do multifinger with exactly one Windows driver that seems to patch the firmware.... and some people refuse to believe that that could possibly be true. | 05:10 |
| RAOF | Magic should do two finger scroll with Synaptics I believe. | 05:10 |
| DanaG | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/546697 | 05:11 |
| RAOF | Although cnd is the guy with the hardware, who wrote the driver, and who's doing the multitouch implementation :) | 05:11 |
| ubot4 | Launchpad bug 546697 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "enable multitouch support on older touchpads, as supported by driver v15.0.9.0 (dup-of: 554980)" [Medium,Confirmed] | 05:11 |
| ubot4 | Launchpad bug 554980 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Two finger scroll not working on all old touchPads (emulation approach). (affects: 30) (dups: 3) (heat: 141)" [Medium,Confirmed] | 05:11 |
| DanaG | RAOF: the problem is that Gnome won't let me enable BOTH types of scrolling at once. | 05:12 |
| DanaG | And those damn developers: the special windows driver IS NOT FREAKING EMULATION! | 05:12 |
| RAOF | I'd guess you could probably twiddle the properties yourself with xinput | 05:12 |
| DanaG | RAOF: tried that... gnome later resets it. | 05:13 |
| DanaG | If I have gpointing-device-settings installed, I get enable...disable...enable...disable...enable every second or so. | 05:13 |
| RAOF | Sweet! | 05:13 |
| DanaG | I hate those devs that REFUSE to accept that a driver could ever possibly patch the firmware! | 05:16 |
| DanaG | wait, in that thread, the person is not a dev. | 05:17 |
| DanaG | But in the other discussion... the one where the person sniffed the PS/2 traffic of the new touchpads, all I wanted was them to try that sniffing with the special driver. | 05:18 |
| DanaG | Really hackish thing I'm considering trying: sniffing PS/2 traffic with my Xilinx board, and dumping it over serial. | 05:19 |
| DanaG | Sorry about the rant. | 05:20 |
| DanaG | Anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/467258 | 05:21 |
| ubot4 | Launchpad bug 467258 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Touchpad: simultaneous two-finger and edge scrolling (affects: 3) (heat: 17)" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 05:21 |
| DanaG | I must say, wouldn't Synaptics as default have been a better default for the Magic? | 05:26 |
| DanaG | Anyway, I'm off to go try the thing with Windows. | 05:27 |
| DanaG | Got it for work, mainly... and they use Windows. | 05:27 |
| DanaG | I hope we can at least get drivers to the level of NVIDIA, or preferably, fglrx, in terms of packaging. | 07:00 |
| DanaG | Some day, I mean. | 07:00 |
| RAOF | In terms of packaging? | 07:01 |
| DanaG | Yeah. Can't beat: ./ati-driver-installer-whatever.run --buildpkg Ubuntu/maverick | 07:02 |
| RAOF | Ah. | 07:02 |
| RAOF | Well, I think you can; the edgers PPA is pretty kickarse. | 07:02 |
| DanaG | I mean for arm, though. | 07:03 |
| DanaG | Does edgers do that? | 07:03 |
| RAOF | When the ARM ppa buildds are up, yes. | 07:03 |
| DanaG | Spiffy. So no more asking TI for permission? | 07:06 |
| DanaG | For me, 99% of my 3D stuff in Linux is compiz. It just doesn't feel as nice without it. | 07:07 |
| RAOF | Oh, permission to redistribute their drivers? Ah. Different question. | 07:07 |
| RAOF | They *do* have a PPA for it already, I think. | 07:07 |
| RAOF | At least for the OMAP boards. | 07:07 |
| DanaG | Last time I used a beagle, you had to download a huge package from TI, and then use their failure of a build script. | 07:08 |
| DanaG | "make" did "make clean" on a hardcoded target dir that didn't exist. | 07:09 |
| DanaG | For me, 90% of the 3D stuff I do in Linux is Compiz, so GLX is mandatory. | 07:18 |
| DanaG | Oh, and oddly enough, last time I checked power usage on battery with ATI binary, it was lower WITH Compiz and Aero than without! | 07:19 |
| RAOF | Not totally odd; you get less redraw with a compositing manager. | 07:22 |
| DanaG | I'll have to try Radeon on alpha... If power usage is tolerable, I may switch. | 07:23 |
| RAOF | Actually drawing stuff and then blitting a texture costs more than blitting a texture :) | 07:23 |
| DanaG | The difference between fglrx and Radeon was like 10 watts. | 07:23 |
| DanaG | All those silly people who recommend disabling it... | 07:24 |
| * RAOF wonders if he's mentioned that fglrx has more lines of power management code than the radeon kernel module, mesa driver, and DDX in total? | 07:24 | |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| hyperair | Sarvatt: it seems compiz is hanging at another X call now. | 14:04 |
| hyperair | http://paste.debian.net/101860/ | 14:04 |
| Sarvatt | hyperair: so what happens, it just hangs? | 14:33 |
| hyperair | Sarvatt: yep, compiz hangs, X hangs. | 14:43 |
| hyperair | no wait | 14:43 |
| hyperair | compiz hangs | 14:43 |
| hyperair | X doesn't hang | 14:43 |
| hyperair | killing compiz brings X back | 14:43 |
| Sarvatt | it might be useful to attach to the X process and get a bt there | 14:43 |
| Sarvatt | ah | 14:43 |
| hyperair | Sarvatt: does xorg-edgers have pixman dbgsyms? | 16:02 |
| hyperair | ah it does | 16:02 |
| Sarvatt | -dbg yeah | 16:03 |
| hyperair | Sarvatt: it seems that Xorg is stuck in libpixman | 16:03 |
| hyperair | and compiz is stuck waiting on XGetWindowProperty again | 16:03 |
| Sarvatt | what libx11 again? | 16:03 |
| hyperair | Sarvatt: http://paste.debian.net/101876/ | 16:06 |
| hyperair | Sarvatt: the one from xorg-edgers maverick? | 16:06 |
| hyperair | Installed: 2:1.3.4+git20100720.554da76e-0ubuntu0sarvatt4 | 16:07 |
| Sarvatt | hyperair: you use a dock? | 16:15 |
| hyperair | Sarvatt: yes i do. docky. | 16:15 |
| Sarvatt | on the left side of the screen like unity? | 16:15 |
| hyperair | yep | 16:16 |
| hyperair | wait, how did you know? | 16:16 |
| hyperair | O_o | 16:16 |
| Sarvatt | yah looks like its just drawing that, nothing odd there | 16:16 |
| hyperair | you could tell that from the backtrace? | 16:16 |
| Sarvatt | yep | 16:16 |
| hyperair | hmm | 16:16 |
| hyperair | but it hung there? | 16:16 |
| Sarvatt | the last thing it drew I'm guessing | 16:17 |
| hyperair | li see. | 16:18 |
| hyperair | how strange. | 16:19 |
| Sarvatt | i'm not seeing any obvious locking problems at least :( | 16:19 |
| hyperair | =\ | 16:23 |
| hyperair | but XGetWindowProperty shouldn't block | 16:23 |
| hyperair | meaning it's not compiz's fault, or is it? =\ | 16:23 |
| hyperair | hmm | 16:23 |
| Sarvatt | do you have a backtrace of the hang with libxcb1-dbg installed by any chance? | 16:24 |
| hyperair | nope | 16:27 |
| hyperair | oh yeah, it particularly likes happening when i'm busy killing indicator-applet | 16:28 |
| Azelphur | bryceh: been trying for a while to figure out how to get ubuntu-bug to work, tried asking in ubuntu-uk and they told me to use apport-collect which just says "no additional information collected" so I'm kinda stuck with providing the ubuntu-bug info you wanted :( | 17:10 |
| Azelphur | been trying to do it since yesterday | 17:10 |
| Azelphur | I did file the bug though, https://bugs.launchpad.net/xorg-server/+bug/687412 | 17:10 |
| ubot4 | Launchpad bug 687412 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "X crashes after a while on 9500GT in arecord (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] | 17:10 |
| apw | bryceh, Sarvatt, where are we with nouveau and 3d ? | 17:36 |
| apw | its not going to be there any time soon i assume? | 17:37 |
| bryceh | apw, it depends... we've been discussing it but it's be easier to decide, if upstream was supporting it | 19:16 |
| apw | bryceh, does that mean it is even an option? | 19:16 |
| Azelphur | bryceh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/687412 I filed that bug, someone marked it as invalid for some reason | 19:25 |
| ubot4 | Launchpad bug 687412 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "X crashes after a while on 9500GT in arecord (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] | 19:25 |
| Azelphur | I couldn't get ubuntu-bug to work, spent a day trying and asked in ubuntu-uk, they told me to use apport-collect that didn't work either, not my day :( | 19:26 |
| tjaalton | you didn't specify the package | 19:29 |
| Azelphur | ah | 19:29 |
| Azelphur | don't remember it asking me to specify a package when filing | 19:29 |
| Azelphur | I did set it to also effects X.Org though | 19:30 |
| tjaalton | it's not a package, but a project | 19:30 |
| Azelphur | oh | 19:30 |
| Azelphur | tjaalton: how do I set a package? | 19:31 |
| tjaalton | choose the ubuntu project and enter the name? | 19:37 |
| Azelphur | tjaalton: I clicked also affects project typed ubuntu in the box and it says there is no project named Ubuntu | 19:38 |
| Azelphur | I tried using the search, it says there are too many projects with the name Ubuntu | 19:38 |
| tjaalton | nbo | 19:38 |
| tjaalton | no | 19:38 |
| tjaalton | it lists "ubuntu" there because you didn't say which package had the bug | 19:38 |
| tjaalton | forget the projects | 19:38 |
| Azelphur | :S | 19:39 |
| tjaalton | click ubuntu, enter the name of the package | 19:39 |
| Azelphur | ah | 19:39 |
| tjaalton | dunno what to think of the backtrace | 19:40 |
| tjaalton | it's looping somehoe | 19:40 |
| Azelphur | and the package name is xserver-xorg, should I change it's status too? | 19:40 |
| tjaalton | w | 19:40 |
| Azelphur | tjaalton: bryceh said it could be caused by arecord triggering an event which it hooks creating a loop | 19:40 |
| Azelphur | iirc | 19:40 |
| tjaalton | so the server didn't crash, but it's flooded? | 19:41 |
| Azelphur | yes it crashes, I drop back to gdm | 19:41 |
| tjaalton | is it immediate? | 19:42 |
| Azelphur | tjaalton: nope, it takes a while | 19:42 |
| tjaalton | so the real bug is what triggers the loop | 19:43 |
| tjaalton | the server then runs out of resources or so. that could be an nvidia bug | 19:43 |
| tjaalton | but the backtrace is pretty much useless | 19:44 |
| Sarvatt | we never saw anything in the logs that it was actually a crash though the other day, its still possible that it could just be some oddball mythtv session stuff dropping it back to login for some reason | 19:44 |
| Azelphur | Sarvatt: surely if gdb picks up on the crash it's a crash and not a proper exit | 19:44 |
| Azelphur | also this issue doesn't happen with the old graphics card I had in there (6600GT) | 19:45 |
| tjaalton | the same driver? | 19:45 |
| Azelphur | I think the 6600 uses an older nvidia driver, so before I upgraded I used jockey to deactivate the driver, installed the 9500, then used jockey again | 19:46 |
| Sarvatt | X sends lots of signals gdb stops on.. | 19:46 |
| Azelphur | I could try swapping the 9500 back out with the 6600 | 19:48 |
| Azelphur | to see if it still happens | 19:48 |
| tjaalton | you said on the bug that you don't know what triggers it? | 19:49 |
| Azelphur | that's right, it happens at random | 19:49 |
| tjaalton | just like the best bugs should | 19:49 |
| Azelphur | haha, I know it's a terrible description | 19:49 |
| Azelphur | but it happens when the keyboard is on the other side of the room with nobody nearby | 19:50 |
| Azelphur | there's no pattern to it I can see as of yet, I will keep trying to figure it out though | 19:50 |
| Azelphur | as I say I plan on stopping x11vnc which should stop arecord from being enabled so I can see if that stops it from happening, and switching back to the 6600 to see if that stops it | 19:50 |
| Azelphur | and I want to start logging the times of the crashes | 19:50 |
| bryceh | apw, yes, it's an option | 19:51 |
| Azelphur | tjaalton: should I change the status from invalid to new again when specifying a package? | 19:55 |
| bryceh | Azelphur, I already did | 19:58 |
| Azelphur | bryceh: ty :D | 19:58 |
| bryceh | it probably got set as invalid because it didn't have a detailed enough description | 19:58 |
| Azelphur | yea, I admit the description was crap but I don't have a lot to go on | 19:59 |
| Azelphur | getting the files you requested now :) | 19:59 |
| bryceh | we get so many bugs, that developers tend to focus on bugs that have good descriptions and complete log information, and it's fairly plain how the bug comes about | 20:01 |
| Sarvatt | too bad it's not reliably happening 1 minute after login like it is for these people http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1612704 | 20:07 |
| Sarvatt | they have nothing in their logs either | 20:07 |
| Sarvatt | Azelphur: try passing -noxrecord to x11vnc? | 20:09 |
| Sarvatt | no clue how its starting in mythbuntu | 20:09 |
| Azelphur | yea was just about to say I should try that :) | 20:09 |
| Azelphur | probably in init.d or something, I'll find it :p | 20:10 |
| Sarvatt | grep -R x11vnc /etc/ | 20:11 |
| Azelphur | it's one attachment per comment right? | 20:12 |
| Azelphur | Sarvatt: it's not in there, easy enough for me to find I know the maintainer of mythbuntu quite well, I can prod him :) | 20:13 |
| Sarvatt | apport-collect -p xorg 687412 ? | 20:13 |
| Azelphur | Sarvatt: haha, I tried to use that in the first place but didn't know that I needed to specify a package, that explains why I never got it to work. Running it now :) | 20:15 |
| Sarvatt | yeah it's not documented very well :( | 20:15 |
| Sarvatt | or at all | 20:16 |
| vish | is it OK to keep getting "Program received signal SIGPIPE, Broken pipe." http://paste.ubuntu.com/541127/ ? it seems to be occurring when opening/closing animations with compiz.. | 20:16 |
| vish | seems i am noticing this because i'm debugging X, but during normal usage it would just be like a fraction of a sec stuck and then starting of the animation | 20:16 |
| Sarvatt | vish: handle SIGPIPE nostop | 20:16 |
| Azelphur | Sarvatt: that gives him all the files he asked for, right? | 20:16 |
| Sarvatt | Azelphur: yea | 20:17 |
| Azelphur | cool | 20:17 |
| vish | Sarvatt: ah , will all that arg , but is that normal? or should it not be doing that? | 20:17 |
| Sarvatt | vish: yep its normal | 20:17 |
| vish | cool.. | 20:17 |
| Azelphur | next on my list is to try with -noxrecord then to see if that stops it from happening. | 20:17 |
| Sarvatt | vish: you want to nostop on SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 too or it'll stop on input events and stuff | 20:18 |
| vish | Sarvatt: ok, sure, thanks.. this SIGPIPE seems more common for me. | 20:19 |
| Sarvatt | Azelphur: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/525066 | 21:00 |
| ubot4 | Launchpad bug 525066 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "x11vnc able to segfault xorg (affects: 2) (heat: 23)" [High,Triaged] | 21:00 |
| Azelphur | Sarvatt: looks like the same crash but mine happens at random while the machine is logged in, nothing to do with the login screen | 21:21 |
| Azelphur | I can try to reproduce that bug though :) | 21:21 |
| Sarvatt | they're just saying to boot it up to the login screen not that the login screen has any significance to it from how I read it | 21:22 |
| Azelphur | so they are saying X crashes as soon as the open a VNC session? | 21:22 |
| Patricia | ola | 21:32 |
| Patricia | ingles ou portugues? | 21:32 |
| Patricia | Hi | 21:32 |
| Patricia | English our Portuguese? | 21:32 |
| Patricia | because the intel video card, hangs with compiz? | 21:33 |
| Patricia | 82945G/GZ | 21:33 |
| RAOF | apw: Nouveau 3D status is roughly what it was for Maverick - installing libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental will get you 3D, it'll probably work, but kindly don't bug anyone if it doesn't. | 22:13 |
| RAOF | apw: One difference is that we've enabled the 3D driver for the old cards (TNT2 → Geforce3) in the most recent mesa upload. | 22:14 |
| apw | RAOF, thanks | 22:15 |
| RAOF | We should also look at jocky-ifying libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental, so it's presented to users as an alternative to the binary blob. | 22:16 |
| apw | RAOF, thats an interesting idea | 22:21 |
| RAOF | Should be relatively simple too, and allow users to try Unity on the livecd. | 22:22 |
| Sarvatt | Azelphur: I think I might have a patch for you to try | 23:10 |
| Sarvatt | Azelphur: uploading it to https://launchpad.net/~sarvatt/+archive/green, will take an hour or so to show up | 23:16 |
| Sarvatt | http://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/2166/ | 23:17 |
| Sarvatt | Azelphur: heading out for the night, let me know how it goes if you get a chance to test it | 23:23 |
| Patricia | because the intel video card, hangs with compiz? 82945G/GZ | 23:25 |
| RAOF | Patricia: That card should work; could you provide more details, like: What Ubuntu release are you using? How often does compiz hang? What, exactly, happens when compiz hangs? | 23:26 |
| Patricia | Ubuntu 9.10 | 23:27 |
| Patricia | our | 23:27 |
| Patricia | Ubuntu 10.04 | 23:27 |
| Patricia | our | 23:27 |
| Patricia | Ubuntu 10.10 | 23:27 |
| Patricia | latch completely | 23:27 |
| Patricia | whatever version ubuntu 9.10 after hangs | 23:27 |
| Patricia | to return the computer, just restarting the reset button | 23:28 |
| Patricia | the period of catch is about 5 seconds after activating compiz | 23:29 |
| Patricia | everyone who has this video card does not work, compiz | 23:29 |
| Patricia | :/ | 23:30 |
| JanC | I have 2 laptops with (a variation of) that videocard which seem to work okay | 23:42 |
| JanC | it's probably the most-used GPU ever... | 23:43 |
| Patricia | Unfortunately all they are activating compiz, this fighting, I collect data from other users of that board in #ubuntu-br | 23:43 |
| Patricia | and does not work | 23:43 |
| JanC | Patricia: is this with the default compiz settings? | 23:43 |
| Patricia | ¬¬ | 23:44 |
| Patricia | or not the time to fiddle around | 23:44 |
| Patricia | you activate the effect and already hangs | 23:45 |
| Patricia | yes default settings | 23:45 |
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