[01:55] <RAOF> Would you believe it?  Destroying buffers before you've finished rendering from them makes for some crazy rendering.
[01:55]  * RAOF feels rather stupid.
[01:59] <RAOF> Yup.  There goes the flickering!
[03:30] <DanaG> okay, so I got the magic trackpad... and it doesn't scroll or anything.
[03:32] <DanaG> Is something I should go to #ubuntu for?
[03:38] <RAOF> It should do 2, 3 & 4 finger gestures under Unity, IIRC.
[03:40] <DanaG> ah, what I'd want is the same as regular Synaptics, at least.
[03:40] <RAOF> You *should* be able to get synaptics to claim it by judicious editing of config files; you'll lose gesture support there, though.
[03:41] <DanaG> Scrolling (2-finger and/or edge, though Gnome devs think nobody could possibly ever want both), and middle and right button are most important.
[03:41] <RAOF> I _think_ gesture support should handle 2 finger scroll, though.  Again, only under Unity
[03:41] <DanaG> Stupid apple... 2-finger right-click, but where the heck's my MIDDLE button?
[03:41] <DanaG> I use middle way more than I use right, when browsing.
[03:42] <DanaG> Oh, and when I hold the lower edge, all movement stops.
[03:43] <DanaG> Correction: as long as two fingers are on the board, literally nothing happens when I move the fingers.
[04:32] <bjsnider> DanaG, what device is this?
[04:34] <DanaG> Magic Trackpad.
[04:40] <DanaG> I won't go to +1 until I can get... ATI driver... to work with new X server.
[04:50] <RAOF> fglrx?  We haven't got a new X server in Natty yet.
[04:53] <DanaG> hmm, is there anything else significantly new in natty, anyway?
[04:53] <RAOF> Well, new kernel.
[04:53] <RAOF> (Slightly) newer mesa.
[04:53] <RAOF> New -intel,...
[04:53] <DanaG> Radeon uses too much power... runs warm and noisy.
[04:54] <DanaG> Random aside: why is it even called a "trackpad", anyway?  You touch it, not track it!
[04:54] <DanaG> I'm tracking my mouse.... oops, it got away!
[04:54] <RAOF> Even if you set dynpm?
[04:54] <DanaG> Yeah, last time I checked, dynpm didn't use lowest-power modes, and even with fixed low, it still uses like 8 watts more than fglrx.
[04:55] <DanaG> Hey, if a trackpad is called such because it "tracks" you... then we should call webcams WATCHcams, because they WATCH you. =þ
[04:56] <DanaG> ah, I'm switching the "magic" thing to Synaptics.
[04:58] <DanaG> Regression with the change from hal to xorg.conf.d: changing .conf file doesn't take effect merely by reattaching device!
[05:00] <DanaG> Well, either that, or the 60-magictrackpad.conf isn't what defines the driver.
[05:00] <DanaG> I changed it to say synaptics, and it's still using udev.
[05:01] <RAOF> evdev, you mean.
[05:01] <DanaG> er, yeah.
[05:02] <DanaG> Say, does using /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d still break everything by making it ignore /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ?
[05:03] <RAOF> I don't think so.
[05:03] <DanaG> I created a new file (61) with identifier "Magic Trackpad, damnit"... and it doesn't use the file.
[05:04] <DanaG> I used to be able to do this for synaptics: change the fdi file, then unload and reload psmouse.
[05:05] <DanaG> Well, time to ctrl-alt-backspace, then.  grr.
[05:09] <DanaG> Okay, restart did it... though now i'm screwed by the "can't have both" limitation.
[05:10] <DanaG> Built-in touchpad won't do multi-finger... so I get edge scrolling with magic.
[05:10] <DanaG> Well, it WILL do multifinger with exactly one Windows driver that seems to patch the firmware.... and some people refuse to believe that that could possibly be true.
[05:10] <RAOF> Magic should do two finger scroll with Synaptics I believe.
[05:11] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/546697
[05:11] <RAOF> Although cnd is the guy with the hardware, who wrote the driver, and who's doing the multitouch implementation :)
[05:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 546697 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "enable multitouch support on older touchpads, as supported by driver v15.0.9.0 (dup-of: 554980)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[05:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 554980 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Two finger scroll not working on all old touchPads (emulation approach). (affects: 30) (dups: 3) (heat: 141)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[05:12] <DanaG> RAOF: the problem is that Gnome won't let me enable BOTH types of scrolling at once.
[05:12] <DanaG> And those damn developers: the special windows driver IS NOT FREAKING EMULATION!
[05:12] <RAOF> I'd guess you could probably twiddle the properties yourself with xinput
[05:13] <DanaG> RAOF: tried that... gnome later resets it.
[05:13] <DanaG> If I have gpointing-device-settings installed, I get enable...disable...enable...disable...enable every second or so.
[05:13] <RAOF> Sweet!
[05:16] <DanaG> I hate those devs that REFUSE to accept that a driver could ever possibly patch the firmware!
[05:17] <DanaG> wait, in that thread, the person is not a dev.
[05:18] <DanaG> But in the other discussion... the one where the person sniffed the PS/2 traffic of the new touchpads, all I wanted was them to try that sniffing with the special driver.
[05:19] <DanaG> Really hackish thing I'm considering trying: sniffing PS/2 traffic with my Xilinx board, and dumping it over serial.
[05:20] <DanaG> Sorry about the rant.
[05:21] <DanaG> Anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/467258
[05:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 467258 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Touchpad: simultaneous two-finger and edge scrolling (affects: 3) (heat: 17)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[05:26] <DanaG> I must say, wouldn't Synaptics as default have been a better default for the Magic?
[05:27] <DanaG> Anyway, I'm off to go try the thing with Windows.
[05:27] <DanaG> Got it for work, mainly... and they use Windows.
[07:00] <DanaG> I hope we can at least get drivers to the level of NVIDIA, or preferably, fglrx, in terms of packaging.
[07:00] <DanaG> Some day, I mean.
[07:01] <RAOF> In terms of packaging?
[07:02] <DanaG> Yeah.  Can't beat: ./ati-driver-installer-whatever.run --buildpkg Ubuntu/maverick
[07:02] <RAOF> Ah.
[07:02] <RAOF> Well, I think you can; the edgers PPA is pretty kickarse.
[07:03] <DanaG> I mean for arm, though.
[07:03] <DanaG> Does edgers do that?
[07:03] <RAOF> When the ARM ppa buildds are up, yes.
[07:06] <DanaG> Spiffy.  So no more asking TI for permission?
[07:07] <DanaG> For me, 99% of my 3D stuff in Linux is compiz.  It just doesn't feel as nice without it.
[07:07] <RAOF> Oh, permission to redistribute their drivers?  Ah.  Different question.
[07:07] <RAOF> They *do* have a PPA for it already, I think.
[07:07] <RAOF> At least for the OMAP boards.
[07:08] <DanaG> Last time I used a beagle, you had to download a huge package from TI, and then use their failure of a build script.
[07:09] <DanaG> "make" did "make clean" on a hardcoded target dir that didn't exist.
[07:18] <DanaG> For me, 90% of the 3D stuff I do in Linux is Compiz, so GLX is mandatory.
[07:19] <DanaG> Oh, and oddly enough, last time I checked power usage on battery with ATI binary, it was lower WITH Compiz and Aero than without!
[07:22] <RAOF> Not totally odd; you get less redraw with a compositing manager.
[07:23] <DanaG> I'll have to try Radeon on alpha... If power usage is tolerable, I may switch.
[07:23] <RAOF> Actually drawing stuff and then blitting a texture costs more than blitting a texture :)
[07:23] <DanaG> The difference between fglrx and Radeon was like 10 watts.
[07:24] <DanaG> All those silly people who recommend disabling it...
[07:24]  * RAOF wonders if he's mentioned that fglrx has more lines of power management code than the radeon kernel module, mesa driver, and DDX in total?
[14:04] <hyperair> Sarvatt: it seems compiz is hanging at another X call now.
[14:04] <hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/101860/
[14:33] <Sarvatt> hyperair: so what happens, it just hangs?
[14:43] <hyperair> Sarvatt: yep, compiz hangs, X hangs.
[14:43] <hyperair> no wait
[14:43] <hyperair> compiz hangs
[14:43] <hyperair> X doesn't hang
[14:43] <hyperair> killing compiz brings X back
[14:43] <Sarvatt> it might be useful to attach to the X process and get a bt there
[14:43] <Sarvatt> ah
[16:02] <hyperair> Sarvatt: does xorg-edgers have pixman dbgsyms?
[16:02] <hyperair> ah it does
[16:03] <Sarvatt> -dbg yeah
[16:03] <hyperair> Sarvatt: it seems that Xorg is stuck in libpixman
[16:03] <hyperair> and compiz is stuck waiting on XGetWindowProperty again
[16:03] <Sarvatt> what libx11 again?
[16:06] <hyperair> Sarvatt: http://paste.debian.net/101876/
[16:06] <hyperair> Sarvatt: the one from xorg-edgers maverick?
[16:07] <hyperair> Installed: 2:1.3.4+git20100720.554da76e-0ubuntu0sarvatt4
[16:15] <Sarvatt> hyperair: you use a dock?
[16:15] <hyperair> Sarvatt: yes i do. docky.
[16:15] <Sarvatt> on the left side of the screen like unity?
[16:16] <hyperair> yep
[16:16] <hyperair> wait, how did you know?
[16:16] <hyperair> O_o
[16:16] <Sarvatt> yah looks like its just drawing that, nothing odd there
[16:16] <hyperair> you could tell that from the backtrace?
[16:16] <Sarvatt> yep
[16:16] <hyperair> hmm
[16:16] <hyperair> but it hung there?
[16:17] <Sarvatt> the last thing it drew I'm guessing
[16:18] <hyperair> li see.
[16:19] <hyperair> how strange.
[16:19] <Sarvatt> i'm not seeing any obvious locking problems at least :(
[16:23] <hyperair> =\
[16:23] <hyperair> but XGetWindowProperty shouldn't block
[16:23] <hyperair> meaning it's not compiz's fault, or is it? =\
[16:23] <hyperair> hmm
[16:24] <Sarvatt> do you have a backtrace of the hang with  libxcb1-dbg installed by any chance?
[16:27] <hyperair> nope
[16:28] <hyperair> oh yeah, it particularly likes happening when i'm busy killing indicator-applet
[17:10] <Azelphur> bryceh: been trying for a while to figure out how to get ubuntu-bug to work, tried asking in ubuntu-uk and they told me to use apport-collect which just says "no additional information collected" so I'm kinda stuck with providing the ubuntu-bug info you wanted :(
[17:10] <Azelphur> been trying to do it since yesterday
[17:10] <Azelphur> I did file the bug though, https://bugs.launchpad.net/xorg-server/+bug/687412
[17:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 687412 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "X crashes after a while on 9500GT in arecord (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[17:36] <apw> bryceh, Sarvatt, where are we with nouveau and 3d ?
[17:37] <apw> its not going to be there any time soon i assume?
[19:16] <bryceh> apw, it depends...  we've been discussing it but it's be easier to decide, if upstream was supporting it
[19:16] <apw> bryceh, does that mean it is even an option?
[19:25] <Azelphur> bryceh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/687412 I filed that bug, someone marked it as invalid for some reason
[19:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 687412 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "X crashes after a while on 9500GT in arecord (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid]
[19:26] <Azelphur> I couldn't get ubuntu-bug to work, spent a day trying and asked in ubuntu-uk, they told me to use apport-collect that didn't work either, not my day :(
[19:29] <tjaalton> you didn't specify the package
[19:29] <Azelphur> ah
[19:29] <Azelphur> don't remember it asking me to specify a package when filing
[19:30] <Azelphur> I did set it to also effects X.Org though
[19:30] <tjaalton> it's not a package, but a project
[19:30] <Azelphur> oh
[19:31] <Azelphur> tjaalton: how do I set a package?
[19:37] <tjaalton> choose the ubuntu project and enter the name?
[19:38] <Azelphur> tjaalton: I clicked also affects project typed ubuntu in the box and it says there is no project named Ubuntu
[19:38] <Azelphur> I tried using the search, it says there are too many projects with the name Ubuntu
[19:38] <tjaalton> nbo
[19:38] <tjaalton> no
[19:38] <tjaalton> it lists "ubuntu" there because you didn't say which package had the bug
[19:38] <tjaalton> forget the projects
[19:39] <Azelphur> :S
[19:39] <tjaalton> click ubuntu, enter the name of the package
[19:39] <Azelphur> ah
[19:40] <tjaalton> dunno what to think of the backtrace
[19:40] <tjaalton> it's looping somehoe
[19:40] <Azelphur> and the package name is xserver-xorg, should I change it's status too?
[19:40] <tjaalton> w
[19:40] <Azelphur> tjaalton: bryceh said it could be caused by arecord triggering an event which it hooks creating a loop
[19:40] <Azelphur> iirc
[19:41] <tjaalton> so the server didn't crash, but it's flooded?
[19:41] <Azelphur> yes it crashes, I drop back to gdm
[19:42] <tjaalton> is it immediate?
[19:42] <Azelphur> tjaalton: nope, it takes a while
[19:43] <tjaalton> so the real bug is what triggers the loop
[19:43] <tjaalton> the server then runs out of resources or so. that could be an nvidia bug
[19:44] <tjaalton> but the backtrace is pretty much useless
[19:44] <Sarvatt> we never saw anything in the logs that it was actually a crash though the other day, its still possible that it could just be some oddball mythtv session stuff dropping it back to login for some reason
[19:44] <Azelphur> Sarvatt: surely if gdb picks up on the crash it's a crash and not a proper exit
[19:45] <Azelphur> also this issue doesn't happen with the old graphics card I had in there (6600GT)
[19:45] <tjaalton> the same driver?
[19:46] <Azelphur> I think the 6600 uses an older nvidia driver, so before I upgraded I used jockey to deactivate the driver, installed the 9500, then used jockey again
[19:46] <Sarvatt> X sends lots of signals gdb stops on..
[19:48] <Azelphur> I could try swapping the 9500 back out with the 6600
[19:48] <Azelphur> to see if it still happens
[19:49] <tjaalton> you said on the bug that you don't know what triggers it?
[19:49] <Azelphur> that's right, it happens at random
[19:49] <tjaalton> just like the best bugs should
[19:49] <Azelphur> haha, I know it's a terrible description
[19:50] <Azelphur> but it happens when the keyboard is on the other side of the room with nobody nearby
[19:50] <Azelphur> there's no pattern to it I can see as of yet, I will keep trying to figure it out though
[19:50] <Azelphur> as I say I plan on stopping x11vnc which should stop arecord from being enabled so I can see if that stops it from happening, and switching back to the 6600 to see if that stops it
[19:50] <Azelphur> and I want to start logging the times of the crashes
[19:51] <bryceh> apw, yes, it's an option
[19:55] <Azelphur> tjaalton: should I change the status from invalid to new again when specifying a package?
[19:58] <bryceh> Azelphur, I already did
[19:58] <Azelphur> bryceh: ty :D
[19:58] <bryceh> it probably got set as invalid because it didn't have a detailed enough description
[19:59] <Azelphur> yea, I admit the description was crap but I don't have a lot to go on
[19:59] <Azelphur> getting the files you requested now :)
[20:01] <bryceh> we get so many bugs, that developers tend to focus on bugs that have good descriptions and complete log information, and it's fairly plain how the bug comes about
[20:07] <Sarvatt> too bad it's not reliably happening 1 minute after login like it is for these people http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1612704
[20:07] <Sarvatt> they have nothing in their logs either
[20:09] <Sarvatt> Azelphur: try passing -noxrecord to x11vnc?
[20:09] <Sarvatt> no clue how its starting in mythbuntu
[20:09] <Azelphur> yea was just about to say I should try that :)
[20:10] <Azelphur> probably in init.d or something, I'll find it :p
[20:11] <Sarvatt> grep -R x11vnc /etc/
[20:12] <Azelphur> it's one attachment per comment right?
[20:13] <Azelphur> Sarvatt: it's not in there, easy enough for me to find I know the maintainer of mythbuntu quite well, I can prod him :)
[20:13] <Sarvatt> apport-collect -p xorg 687412 ?
[20:15] <Azelphur> Sarvatt: haha, I tried to use that in the first place but didn't know that I needed to specify a package, that explains why I never got it to work. Running it now :)
[20:15] <Sarvatt> yeah it's not documented very well :(
[20:16] <Sarvatt> or at all
[20:16] <vish> is it OK to keep getting "Program received signal SIGPIPE, Broken pipe." http://paste.ubuntu.com/541127/ ? it seems to be occurring when opening/closing animations with compiz..
[20:16] <vish> seems i am noticing this because i'm debugging X, but during normal usage it would just be like a fraction of a sec stuck and then starting of the animation
[20:16] <Sarvatt> vish: handle SIGPIPE nostop
[20:16] <Azelphur> Sarvatt: that gives him all the files he asked for, right?
[20:17] <Sarvatt> Azelphur: yea
[20:17] <Azelphur> cool
[20:17] <vish> Sarvatt: ah , will all that arg , but is that normal? or should it not be doing that?
[20:17] <Sarvatt> vish: yep its normal
[20:17] <vish> cool..
[20:17] <Azelphur> next on my list is to try with -noxrecord then to see if that stops it from happening.
[20:18] <Sarvatt> vish:  you want to nostop on SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 too or it'll stop on input events and stuff
[20:19] <vish> Sarvatt: ok, sure, thanks..  this SIGPIPE seems more common for me.
[21:00] <Sarvatt> Azelphur: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/525066
[21:00] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525066 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "x11vnc able to segfault xorg (affects: 2) (heat: 23)" [High,Triaged]
[21:21] <Azelphur> Sarvatt: looks like the same crash but mine happens at random while the machine is logged in, nothing to do with the login screen
[21:21] <Azelphur> I can try to reproduce that bug though :)
[21:22] <Sarvatt> they're just saying to boot it up to the login screen not that the login screen has any significance to it from how I read it
[21:22] <Azelphur> so they are saying X crashes as soon as the open a VNC session?
[21:32] <Patricia> ola
[21:32] <Patricia> ingles ou portugues?
[21:32] <Patricia> Hi
[21:32] <Patricia> English our Portuguese?
[21:33] <Patricia> because the intel video card, hangs with compiz?
[21:33] <Patricia> 82945G/GZ
[22:13] <RAOF> apw: Nouveau 3D status is roughly what it was for Maverick - installing libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental will get you 3D, it'll probably work, but kindly don't bug anyone if it doesn't.
[22:14] <RAOF> apw: One difference is that we've enabled the 3D driver for the old cards (TNT2 → Geforce3) in the most recent mesa upload.
[22:15] <apw> RAOF, thanks
[22:16] <RAOF> We should also look at jocky-ifying libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental, so it's presented to users as an alternative to the binary blob.
[22:21] <apw> RAOF, thats an interesting idea
[22:22] <RAOF> Should be relatively simple too, and allow users to try Unity on the livecd.
[23:10] <Sarvatt> Azelphur: I think I might have a patch for you to try
[23:16] <Sarvatt> Azelphur: uploading it to https://launchpad.net/~sarvatt/+archive/green, will take an hour or so to show up
[23:17] <Sarvatt> http://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/2166/
[23:23] <Sarvatt> Azelphur: heading out for the night, let me know how it goes if you get a chance to test it
[23:25] <Patricia> because the intel video card, hangs with compiz? 82945G/GZ
[23:26] <RAOF> Patricia: That card should work; could you provide more details, like: What Ubuntu release are you using?  How often does compiz hang?  What, exactly, happens when compiz hangs?
[23:27] <Patricia> Ubuntu 9.10
[23:27] <Patricia> our
[23:27] <Patricia> Ubuntu 10.04
[23:27] <Patricia> our
[23:27] <Patricia> Ubuntu 10.10
[23:27] <Patricia> latch completely
[23:27] <Patricia> whatever version ubuntu 9.10 after hangs
[23:28] <Patricia> to return the computer, just restarting the reset button
[23:29] <Patricia> the period of catch is about 5 seconds after activating compiz
[23:29] <Patricia> everyone who has this video card does not work, compiz
[23:30] <Patricia> :/
[23:42] <JanC> I have 2 laptops with (a variation of) that videocard which seem to work okay
[23:43] <JanC> it's probably the most-used GPU ever...
[23:43] <Patricia> Unfortunately all they are activating compiz, this fighting, I collect data from other users of that board in #ubuntu-br
[23:43] <Patricia> and does not work
[23:43] <JanC> Patricia: is this with the default compiz settings?
[23:44] <Patricia> ¬¬
[23:44] <Patricia> or not the time to fiddle around
[23:45] <Patricia> you activate the effect and already hangs
[23:45] <Patricia> yes default settings