| Pici | that was original. | 00:53 |
|---|---|---|
| zhxk | stuff, help: someone as a manager to #ubuntu-cn baned my ip just because of a little angry freedom speech | 02:34 |
| bazhang | zhxk, what you were pasting all over just last week? | 02:34 |
| zhxk | thats the freedom speech | 02:35 |
| tonyyarusso | zhxk: a) #ubuntu-cn is not managed by this channel, b) you are required to follow the channel guidelines anywhere on IRC. | 02:35 |
| bazhang | zhxk, #ubuntu-irc is the place to address this, by the way | 02:35 |
| zhxk | stories | 02:35 |
| * tonyyarusso didn't see those pastes, but HIGHLY doubts anything described as "angry freedom speech" (whatever that is) and "stories" could possibly be on-topic for a support channel | 02:36 | |
| bazhang | zhxk, /join #ubuntu-irc and /msg their ops | 02:36 |
| Pici | Hes been a problem in #ubuntu in the past. | 02:38 |
| Pici | And in #freenode | 02:38 |
| * rww ponders "FloodBot9" in #ubuntu | 02:38 | |
| bazhang | * [FloodBot9] (~root@118.172.33.48.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net): Suttiwit | 02:38 |
| tonyyarusso | I've seen that tactic before. | 02:39 |
| bazhang | I'd have banned him in #ubuntu if I've could have read the format at the time. | 02:50 |
| bazhang | err I | 02:50 |
| rww | and OpenVMS wandered in as "Floodbot8". I take it there's an active trollpit somewhere. | 03:13 |
| bazhang | * [FloodBot8] (~Machine0@cdm-75-109-71-162.asbnva.dh.suddenlink.net): Wintervenom | 03:13 |
| rww | Ormie was the other Floodbotposter, btw. | 03:20 |
| IdleOne | Floodbotposter?? | 03:20 |
| bazhang | nice catch | 03:20 |
| bazhang | floodbot9 | 03:20 |
| rww | Floodboster? I don't know, I'm not good at smashing words together. | 03:21 |
| bazhang | suttiwit ^^ | 03:21 |
| IdleOne | he joined as floodbot9? | 03:21 |
| bazhang | yep | 03:22 |
| IdleOne | he can seek support elsewhere | 03:22 |
| bazhang | he and openvms seem to be tag-trolling | 03:22 |
| IdleOne | I got openvms banned already for floodbot8 | 03:22 |
| IdleOne | they should no better then to impersonate official channel bots | 03:23 |
| tonyyarusso | rww: I believe you were going for "Floodposter" | 03:23 |
| rww | that works | 03:23 |
| tonyyarusso | IdleOne should know the difference between homonymns. | 03:23 |
| bazhang | nymns! | 03:23 |
| tonyyarusso | guess I had an extra n in there. | 03:24 |
| IdleOne | your going to make me look it up | 03:24 |
| tonyyarusso | AAAAUUUUUUGGGH | 03:25 |
| bazhang | sound alikes | 03:25 |
| tonyyarusso | He did it again :( | 03:25 |
| rww | whowhat | 03:25 |
| IdleOne | wherewho | 03:25 |
| tonyyarusso | IdleOne. Using the wrong words. | 03:25 |
| tonyyarusso | And here I thought Canucks had better educations. | 03:25 |
| IdleOne | ok splain it to me teach | 03:25 |
| IdleOne | what words did I use wrong | 03:26 |
| rww | your | 03:26 |
| tonyyarusso | IdleOne: "no" != "know". "your" != "you're" | 03:26 |
| IdleOne | ahh, hell. 1 beer and I am all stupid type | 03:26 |
| IdleOne | fine. no more drikning fro me | 03:26 |
| IdleOne | btw you guys realize I do it to keep you on your toes | 03:27 |
| IdleOne | if not for me who would you correct | 03:27 |
| rww | IdleOne: ikonia | 03:27 |
| IdleOne | lol | 03:28 |
| IdleOne | we take shifts | 03:28 |
| IdleOne | it's my time | 03:28 |
| bazhang | turn | 03:30 |
| IdleOne | listen correct my spelling, correct my grammar. DON"T tell me what I meant :P | 03:30 |
| rww | !iui | 03:31 |
| rww | still needs making :( | 03:31 |
| tonyyarusso | internationalized user interface? | 03:31 |
| IdleOne | funny thing is I haven't had a drink in months, not even that 1 beer I mentioned up there. /me was pretending/lying/faking it | 03:32 |
| IdleOne | wait | 03:32 |
| IdleOne | I just proved my lack of edumacation didn't I? | 03:33 |
| tonyyarusso | Yes. | 03:33 |
| IdleOne | k | 03:33 |
| tonyyarusso | nxt ul b all lik, tlkin lik sum ideeut tween w a nu fon | 03:34 |
| IdleOne | need a vowel? | 03:35 |
| rww | u and a and i and e are vowels | 03:35 |
| rww | also o | 03:35 |
| IdleOne | look who went to high school | 03:36 |
| IdleOne | show off | 03:36 |
| rww | also sometimes y i think i don't know | 03:36 |
| bazhang | yes | 03:36 |
| IdleOne | I used to have a really lame leet talk script | 03:37 |
| IdleOne | wonder if it'll work in xchat | 03:37 |
| rww | ubottu needs @moonphase | 03:37 |
| tonyyarusso | haha | 03:38 |
| IdleOne | hehe | 03:38 |
| tonyyarusso | rww: this data seems surprisingly hard to get with a script | 03:45 |
| rww | why you need script | 03:46 |
| rww | isn't it calculateable from the current date | 03:46 |
| tonyyarusso | I suppose you should in theory be able to do that. | 03:47 |
| tonyyarusso | Not sure it's easier though :P | 03:47 |
| tonyyarusso | that would still be a script though, of course | 03:47 |
| rww | it's pretty easy. you only need to know 1) the moon phase on one date, 2) the period of moon phase cycling, 3) arithmetic | 03:48 |
| rww | Flannel figured it out for me a while back when I was graphing ops calls as a function of moon phase, iirc. | 03:49 |
| * tonyyarusso scripts it up | 03:51 | |
| * tonyyarusso wonders how to divide a timedelta by a timedelta | 04:04 | |
| IdleOne | samurai sword | 04:21 |
| tonyyarusso | rww: Apparently the velocity of the moon has significant variation, as I suspected, but the arithmetic way should be close enough for our purposes. | 04:32 |
| IdleOne | the speed the moon orbits earth is not constant? | 04:33 |
| IdleOne | interesting | 04:34 |
| Archbuntu | SUP My NIGGAS! WHERE THE BITCHES AT!?? | 04:35 |
| IdleOne | Archbuntu: Can we help you. Also please don't swear or use racial slurs | 04:35 |
| Archbuntu | O SORRY WRONG CHANEL | 04:35 |
| IdleOne | Archbuntu: Please read the topic and specifically the part about not idling in here. Thanks. | 04:36 |
| Archbuntu | OOOO MAH BAD! K PEACE OUT DAWG | 04:37 |
| IdleOne | managed to change his ident but doesn't know how to join a channel | 04:44 |
| IdleOne | errr ip not ident | 04:44 |
| rww | HAY HI I TRIP OVER NETWORK CABLE IT CHANGE IPEES HOW U | 04:45 |
| Ormie | Hello | 04:46 |
| IdleOne | thank you Ormie | 04:46 |
| Ormie | IdleOne: Yo are very welcome | 04:46 |
| IdleOne | The reason I banned you earlier is because you joined #ubuntu with the nick floodbot9 and that is IMO a bad idea | 04:46 |
| IdleOne | impersonating a channel bot or channel op is never good | 04:47 |
| Ormie | You know i want you to check my home work for me please? | 04:47 |
| IdleOne | Ormie: what? | 04:47 |
| Ormie | 111111111x111111111=12345678987654321 Is it correct? | 04:48 |
| IdleOne | ok, I see this is not going to be productive | 04:48 |
| rww | Ormie: yes | 04:48 |
| Ormie | Thanks and now where am i? | 04:49 |
| IdleOne | you are now in #ubuntu-ops | 04:50 |
| IdleOne | Ormie: Can I trust that you plan on following the channel guidelines? | 04:50 |
| IdleOne | !guidelines | 04:50 |
| ubottu | The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines | 04:50 |
| Ormie | What is the diffrent bettwen ubuntu and ubuntu-ops | 04:50 |
| Ormie | My english is not that good | 04:51 |
| IdleOne | Ormie: Please read the link ubottu just posted | 04:51 |
| rww | Ormie: #ubuntu is the technical support channel for Ubuntu Linux. #ubuntu-ops is the channel where operators in Ubuntu's core channels reside. | 04:51 |
| === FlannelKing is now known as Flannel | ||
| Ormie | rww: Could you make it easier to understand beacause my english is not realy good | 04:53 |
| IdleOne | your English was fine two days ago when you were looking for help installing google earth | 04:53 |
| IdleOne | your english is fine enough for you to figure out changing your ip | 04:54 |
| maco | er i dont think ip changing requires english.. | 04:54 |
| IdleOne | true | 04:54 |
| Ormie | IdleOne: I don't speak much enlish so i am not good at english now | 04:55 |
| rww | IdleOne: mind if I have a try? | 04:55 |
| IdleOne | please | 04:55 |
| rww | Ormie: IdleOne took you out of #ubuntu because you changed your name to 'FloodBot9'. Copying our channel bots is confusing and not allowed, so don't do it again. | 04:56 |
| rww | Ormie: Also, when you're in Ubuntu channels, follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines | 04:57 |
| rww | Ormie: Do you understand these two things? | 04:57 |
| Ormie | IdleOne: How do you ban people Professor IdleOne? | 04:57 |
| Ormie | rww: ye.....yes | 04:57 |
| rww | Ormie: Alright. Please feel free to go back to #ubuntu. Remember that if you don't follow the IRC Guidelines and we have to talk to you again about it, you'll stop being able to go into #ubuntu for a while. | 04:59 |
| Ormie | rww: You know i am starting to have some fun here can i be here for a few moments | 05:00 |
| Ormie | Where is idleOne? | 05:03 |
| IdleOne | How can I help you? | 05:03 |
| IdleOne | I removed the ban I set, you can /part this channel and then /join #ubuntu | 05:04 |
| Ormie | How can you ban people? | 05:04 |
| Ormie | No don't answer i know | 05:04 |
| maco | by being an operator | 05:04 |
| Ormie | dude i want to be an operator | 05:05 |
| rww | !canibeanop | 05:05 |
| ubottu | If you are interested in joining the Ops team, take a look at both http://www.siltala.net/2010/03/24/ops-teams-applications-announcement/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements for info on the process and requirements. You can also learn about what the job entails from people in #ubuntu-irc. | 05:05 |
| IdleOne | I have seen crazier things happen | 05:05 |
| rww | IdleOne becoming an op, for example | 05:06 |
| IdleOne | yeah | 05:06 |
| Ormie | IdleOne: What is crazy? | 05:06 |
| IdleOne | wanting to become an op | 05:06 |
| IdleOne | but I wish you luck. | 05:06 |
| Ormie | Dude Please i want to be op | 05:07 |
| IdleOne | Ormie: we are done in here so please part this channel as we do not allow non-ops to idle here | 05:07 |
| rww | Ormie: then read the links that ubottu said | 05:07 |
| IdleOne | look at the link ubottu just gave you | 05:07 |
| Ormie | Goodbye all my friends i'm sure gonna miss you | 05:08 |
| IdleOne | err script fail. didn't remove when I set the forward | 05:17 |
| bazhang | if someone wants to help walk ormie through setting up his operator application, he's in -irc; I am off for a bit | 06:25 |
| ubottu | AlertEye called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 07:04 |
| tonyyarusso | wha? #ubuntu lacks ChanServ. | 09:02 |
| bazhang | so does #kubuntu | 09:03 |
| tonyyarusso | And, I seem unable to add bans? | 09:03 |
| tonyyarusso | @btlogin | 09:04 |
| tonyyarusso | @login | 09:04 |
| ubottu | The operation succeeded. | 09:04 |
| tonyyarusso | @btlogin | 09:04 |
| bazhang | but you opped up | 09:04 |
| tonyyarusso | Yes, I did. | 09:04 |
| tonyyarusso | Okay, I can *remove* bans... | 09:05 |
| bazhang | perhaps the banlist is full and the floodbots are not telling us | 09:08 |
| tonyyarusso | Actually, I can add bans, just not THIS one, apparently. | 09:09 |
| tonyyarusso | All right, I give up. FYI, cokecig@66-168-255-112.static.mtgm.al.charter.com was spamming channel advertisement in #python a bit ago, might circle around. | 09:10 |
| bazhang | looks like openmike | 09:12 |
| bazhang | the floodbots already got him I thought | 09:12 |
| bazhang | yep | 09:13 |
| tonyyarusso | Oooh | 09:16 |
| tonyyarusso | In that case, catch up bantracker! | 09:16 |
| bazhang | ormie was the one sockpuppeting as suttiwit and asking to be an op not too long ago | 09:17 |
| Jordan_U | It's probably innocent but a931bw may be phishing. | 11:11 |
| elky | what makes you say that? | 11:11 |
| elky | oh, -ot | 11:11 |
| elky | phix == thefeds iirc | 11:14 |
| Jordan_U | If you could get someone to *send* a text it can automatically cause a charge to be made to your phone's account, e.g. the texts for charity and bad puns. | 11:14 |
| Jordan_U | But that doesn't sound like you would be able to make enough to be worth phishing that way. | 11:15 |
| elky | Jordan_U, ok, i was mostly trying to get you to explain the accusation in the flow of this channel. | 11:15 |
| Jordan_U | To make things easier to follow, a931bw has been asking for someone in the UK, when asked why he responded: 03:08 < a931bw> registering somewhere and there is : half of your password will be sent by text message to this phone | 11:16 |
| * elky feeds him some rope. | 11:24 | |
| Jordan_U | elky: I wouldn't go so far as to assume it's phishing and accuse. I have never heard of a scam like this, and I can't see a way of making enough to be worthwile. | 11:27 |
| elky | i'm not | 11:28 |
| Jordan_U | I'm pretty sure that if it just involved filing in the person's number on a web form, and having them recieve the text (i.e. no text sent by the person, only recieved) that there's no way their account could be billed. | 11:30 |
| elky | are you actually reading what i've said in -ot? | 11:31 |
| Jordan_U | It's 3:30 AM for me, so I'm not at my best. | 11:31 |
| elky | and btw, you can be subscribed to godonlyknowswhat that will cost lots of moneys to receive texts. | 11:32 |
| elky | and no, it doesn't require you to do anything | 11:33 |
| Jordan_U | Yes, but you would notice 500 texts sent to your phone. | 11:33 |
| elky | sure, but this is the point after you've given your number out. | 11:33 |
| Jordan_U | And I don't see how anyone could profit from that, just troll. | 11:33 |
| elky | who says it's for profit?r | 11:33 |
| elky | "for the lulz" means more to most trolls than money | 11:34 |
| Jordan_U | Yes, but I would feel much worse having let someone unwittingly be charged money than having let someone troll "for the lulz". | 11:35 |
| elky | you're assuming the result differs there | 11:36 |
| Jordan_U | And in the case of trolling the person would at least learn a lesson to be more carefull in the future. | 11:36 |
| Jordan_U | elky: Being charged £20 a month for years (depending on how closely the person reads their bills) will cost much more than texting spam ever could. | 11:38 |
| Jordan_U | But it seems like it was innocent, and whoever helped them is probably now alerted to pay attention to their bill. | 11:41 |
| elky | Jordan_U, i think you need to go to bed. | 11:44 |
| Jordan_U | elky: I agree, thank you :) | 11:45 |
| jrib | hi, am I missing something or are recent #ubuntu logs not to be found at irclogs.ubuntu.com? | 11:54 |
| elky | recent as in since when? | 11:55 |
| jrib | I checked december 3rd, 10th, and 11th | 11:56 |
| jrib | They seem to stop appearing on November 28 | 11:58 |
| elky | ouch. um, poke the sysadmins channel and submit an rt | 11:59 |
| elky | we can't actually do anything other than that ourselves | 11:59 |
| elky | unless someone like jpds spots this | 11:59 |
| * elky whistles innocently | 11:59 | |
| jrib | "rt"? | 11:59 |
| elky | @ubuntu.com | 11:59 |
| elky | (request tracker) | 12:00 |
| elky | afaik the log bots are managed by the IS team in canonical, and the IS team look at the rt when they're trying to avoid scrubbing the toilets with a toothbrush. | 12:01 |
| jrib | ah | 12:02 |
| jrib | I'll send the e-mail and see what happens I guess | 12:02 |
| elky | :) | 12:02 |
| jrib | now this means I have to type my question from scratch again :( | 12:05 |
| elky | you lack copy-paste? | 12:08 |
| elky | are you still using an iFailPhone? | 12:09 |
| jrib | elky: nah, my question I asked on December 3rd | 12:10 |
| elky | ah | 12:10 |
| elky | did nobody respond on any of those days? | 12:10 |
| * elky has been travelling abroad for work the past fortnight, and hence offgrid a lot | 12:11 | |
| jrib | I only asked on the 3rd. I had found a related bug report and included it in my question I think | 12:11 |
| jrib | I'm pretty sure I can upgrade if I remove my nvidia drivers, but I'd rather not... | 12:12 |
| elky | jussi, might i suggest that there be a nagios or icinga set up for the various things like this? It wouldn't take much to do a check to see if $prev_day exists for #ubuntu, for example. | 12:12 |
| elky | could also do a check on the floodbot hosts. | 12:13 |
| jrib | oh well I have an hour to kill... let me break my system... | 12:17 |
| elky | heh | 12:18 |
| jrib | and upgrades going... weird | 12:20 |
| LjL | hey j, want some help breaking the system? i'm good at it | 12:21 |
| jrib | LjL: is this going to mess up my system at all? | 12:21 |
| jrib | I like that quote | 12:22 |
| LjL | heh | 12:22 |
| ubottu | Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu (fruitwerks bot/annoyscript) | 12:50 |
| LjL | maybe that's better as a forward to here as he might not realize he has a script enabled in the first place | 12:51 |
| blackest | hi i tried to join #ubuntu and found i was banned any idea why that might be I'm not in the habit of misbehaving | 12:59 |
| LjL | hi | 12:59 |
| blackest | hi Ljl | 12:59 |
| LjL | bazhang: your ban | 12:59 |
| LjL | blackest: you might possibly have been caught in a subnet ban. please wait until the person who set the ban comes up | 13:00 |
| blackest | how would i know who that was havent been on irc for months | 13:01 |
| LjL | blackest: he'll show up himself, don't worry. or other ops may try to find out what happened. | 13:02 |
| LjL | i can only do so much, as i'm not an op in #ubuntu | 13:02 |
| blackest | ok thanks i was looking for someone and hoped they mght be on their | 13:03 |
| blackest | there even thanks | 13:04 |
| LjL | someone who might be on #ubuntu you mean? you know you can check with /whois anyway? | 13:04 |
| blackest | would that return the channel he is on ? | 13:05 |
| LjL | no, not unless he's set -i, but everyone is +i by default | 13:06 |
| LjL | but you can always start a private conversation | 13:06 |
| blackest | well whois returns his name | 13:06 |
| LjL | /whois name name (with the name twice) should also tell you when he last spoke, so you can decide whether it's worth trying to contact him now | 13:07 |
| LjL | if so, then /query name should open a private message window | 13:07 |
| blackest | cool thanks i've used irc on and off for years but i never remember the commnds | 13:07 |
| === bilalakhtar_ is now known as cdbs | ||
| LjL | would someone kindly check the bantracker for whether blackest's ban was intended on him? | 13:08 |
| blackest | I've a feeling its not since every time my ip shows up as dublin and i'm in cork | 13:10 |
| LjL | i have a feeling it's not too, since it's a pretty broad ban that covers a lot of IPs | 13:10 |
| topyli | not by nick, username, or ip unless my search fails | 13:12 |
| topyli | well username is common enough to be discarded i suppose | 13:12 |
| blackest | i usually use blackest_knight | 13:13 |
| topyli | ah there is a ban on the ip | 13:13 |
| LjL | the relevant ban is *!*@92.251.*threembb.ie | 13:13 |
| blackest | great thats about 77,000 banned any way found the guy i was looking for | 13:14 |
| blackest | thanks for your help guys | 13:15 |
| LjL | (and then they complain about my open proxy banforwarding ;\) | 13:15 |
| LjL | blackest: sorry for the trouble | 13:15 |
| blackest | no worries i've been around long enough not to get upset | 13:16 |
| jpds | elky: You will find that the RT is quite clean of remaining tickets at the moment. | 13:36 |
| jpds | elky / jrib: I believe the situation is that the raw logs are there, however the sheer quantity of logs means that HTML generation takes a little while longer. | 13:37 |
| jrib | jpds: raw logs don't seem to be there | 13:38 |
| jrib | ubuntulog isn't in #ubuntu atm | 13:38 |
| jpds | jrib: raw logs are moved across when HTML is done. | 13:38 |
| jrib | jpds: ah | 13:38 |
| jpds | Oh, cool. | 13:38 |
| nhandler | elky: Maybe make that suggestion to Canonical. We have no access, so anything we do on our side to check about logs would still need to end up getting sent to Canonical to sort out. | 14:14 |
| ubottu | In #ubuntu+1, pumba_ said: ubottu, the problem is that there's not an exact and solely answer... | 14:22 |
| jpds | nhandler: Hmm. | 14:31 |
| ubottu | In #ubuntu-offtopic, VillageIdiot said: !42 is not 42 | 16:54 |
| Myrtti | troll is trolling | 17:48 |
| Pici | maybe if we ignore it he'll go away. | 17:49 |
| ubottu | FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from RoboIRC) | 17:50 |
| Myrtti | !guidelines > Solnce | 17:54 |
| Myrtti | topyli: damn ;-) | 17:54 |
| Pici | I wouldn't expect much, he was trolling #freenode earlier | 17:54 |
| Myrtti | me neither | 17:54 |
| topyli | well, they asked | 17:55 |
| Myrtti | Pici: it will, cause next time I'll ban 'im | 17:59 |
| Myrtti | topyli: are you going to remove im too? | 18:03 |
| Myrtti | or what is your logic | 18:03 |
| LjL | making him stop steaking while keeping a pretence of not having banned him? | 18:04 |
| topyli | he left as i expected | 18:04 |
| IdleOne | scare tactic, he is pointing the missiles at him with the threat of launching | 18:04 |
| IdleOne | Lunch! | 18:04 |
| Myrtti | I guess that works... | 18:05 |
| Myrtti | now just have to keep eyes peeled for other channels | 18:05 |
| Myrtti | holaaaaa | 18:13 |
| rww | HI HAY SIR | 18:33 |
| Pici | I WANT THIS UBUNTU | 18:34 |
| rww | MY BUNTY BROKE | 18:34 |
| LjL | noooo :( | 21:24 |
| Pici | yesssss | 21:24 |
| LjL | this way no one ever learns the urls :( | 21:25 |
| Pici | But now we know if people click them | 21:26 |
| Pici | http://goo.gl/info/TAyvJ#week | 21:26 |
| Pici | Plus the topic is a lot shorter | 21:27 |
| LjL | i see, but i don't like it, it looks so much less professional :( | 21:30 |
| topyli | LjL: maybe you should speak in the meetings more :) | 21:33 |
| LjL | not if i care about my blood pressure | 21:34 |
| tsimpson | LjL: it doesn't matter anyway, no one reads the topic ;) | 21:34 |
| topyli | the only channel i know where people read the topic is -ot | 21:34 |
| mneptok | 22:35 -!- mneptok changed the topic of #unix to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuaiLIUQz5M | 21:40 |
| mneptok | happy holidays :) | 21:40 |
| LjL | btw since at this point i've felt compelled to read the meeting logs | 21:58 |
| LjL | why instead of having yet another boring official document about bot style guides | 21:58 |
| LjL | whoever feels the need for style in the bot doesn't just edit the factoids to that effect | 21:58 |
| LjL | because you know, i've been doing that since 2006 | 21:58 |
| LjL | it's why a large number of factoids show my name when you !- them | 21:58 |
| LjL | sometimes doing things is better than writing collegial, well-thought documents about doing things | 21:59 |
| tsimpson | simple: if more people have edit right, and so more people edit factoids, I'd rather they did it "right" than have to go through all the factoids and edit them | 22:00 |
| topyli | LjL may have a wiki-style point there. wikis don't always deteriotate to a mess, although they sometimes do | 22:07 |
| LjL | tsimpson: you do remember that initially, bot editing was open to *everyone* | 22:08 |
| topyli | the factoids may be more important than you think though LjL, people actually rely on them to do pretty critical stuff on their systems | 22:08 |
| LjL | instead of being discussed which select few it should be restricted to, while all the suggestions get ignored | 22:08 |
| tsimpson | yep, twice in fact | 22:08 |
| tsimpson | though no one knew the second time | 22:08 |
| topyli | LjL: it's not a good idea to refer to what things were like in the beginning. they are different now that ubuntu is big | 22:09 |
| LjL | topyli: if i didn't think they were very important i'd not have spent between 2006 and 2008 going through them daily | 22:09 |
| LjL | yes they're crap | 22:09 |
| LjL | good factoid suggestions get systematically ignored | 22:09 |
| topyli | they do, agreed | 22:09 |
| LjL | and when people come here asking about it you go "ignored? when were they ignored? can you provide logs?" | 22:09 |
| tsimpson | that's a different issue to the one we discussed in -meeting | 22:10 |
| LjL | and the factoids, and for that matter http://help.ubuntu.com/, have become an utter joke | 22:10 |
| tsimpson | but related, yeah | 22:10 |
| LjL | while everyone is busy making styleguides about them | 22:10 |
| tsimpson | I don't want anything complex, just a general format guide | 22:11 |
| tsimpson | based on what they are already like | 22:11 |
| topyli | LjL: if we're going to give edit rights to lots of new people, don't you think it's a good idea to have some documentation on how to do it? | 22:13 |
| topyli | i don't have access, if i'm going to be granted it i would like to know how it's done | 22:13 |
| LjL | having some documentation is not a bad idea | 22:41 |
| LjL | i'm just reacting to what i feel is behind it | 22:41 |
| LjL | but for instance i think it's an even better idea if new editors *ask* things and they're coached kindly and professionally by whoever is around to do it that knows. just like it would be nice if good suggestions were accepted into the bot by whoever is around that can put them there. | 22:42 |
| IdleOne | yeah not so crazy about all the goo.gl shortlinks | 22:42 |
| LjL | things that somehow just don't seem to happen. then perhaps i'm wrong to put it down to what i feel is an excessive eagerness to write guides and regulations, but it's human to try to find a culprit | 22:42 |
| rww | Policy is the enthusiasm killer. Policy is the little death that brings total inaction. | 22:43 |
| LjL | well the real reason i don't like the shortlinks is that i've always (and yes, this has come up before) seen it as a point of honor of #ubuntu compared to other channels on #freenode that its ops were careful to keep the topic short by being clever, while not crushing the links | 22:44 |
| LjL | real links that mean something are professional | 22:44 |
| LjL | 37s292D#" is nto | 22:44 |
| IdleOne | I feel more comfortable clicking a link that has some actual words in it | 22:45 |
| IdleOne | 37s292D# doesn't instill confidence in me or make we want to click it | 22:45 |
| Pici | .__. | 22:46 |
| IdleOne | telling people to "read the topic" is going to be a joke now | 22:46 |
| Pici | Its not like we just threw links up there with no descriptions. | 22:47 |
| IdleOne | Pici: I know, but I rather click on wiki.ubuntu.com/Guidelines the goo.gl/gooblygoo | 22:47 |
| jrib | I don't like the short links either | 22:48 |
| IdleOne | seeing the ubuntu.com for one makes it seem in my mind more official. | 22:48 |
| topyli | i don't think documentation on how to edit factoids will make new editors any less likely to ask for help from more experienced ones | 22:48 |
| Pici | I still ask for input and I'm trapped in the factoid factory. | 22:49 |
| IdleOne | Leave the topic as is if you wish but IMHO it looks bad | 22:50 |
| Pici | We can revisit it later. | 22:51 |
| topyli | sure | 22:51 |
| Pici | Theres only been 4 clicks for the guidelines anyway, and its probably all of you based on the countries: http://goo.gl/info/cEF1w#day | 22:51 |
| topyli | meanwhile, please complain on the mailing list | 22:51 |
| IdleOne | Why do we need to keep track of the number of clicks. We getting paid for them? | 22:52 |
| Pici | yes | 22:52 |
| IdleOne | heh | 22:53 |
| Pici | IdleOne: Actually we wanted to see if we could track if people actually read the topic. | 22:53 |
| topyli | we don't need to keep track. but i think it's useful to know if anybody really do click them | 22:53 |
| IdleOne | well, I am not trying to start a war over this. just wanted to say i didn't like the color of paint chosen :) | 22:54 |
| Jordan_U | Pici: If #grub is any reference, very few people actually read the channel topic. | 22:59 |
| LjL | topyli: why don't you take the complain to the mailing list attitude to the mailing list | 23:05 |
| topyli | heh | 23:09 |
| topyli | the mailing list really is better though, it's more forgiving to timezones and allows everyone to chip in better | 23:11 |
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