[00:55] Hi [00:55] I have Dell Laptop A860 Core2 Duo wishing to install Ubuntu 10.10 [01:04] is it better to go with 32 Bit or 64 Bit [01:09] if you intend to install on a system with 4Gb or more ram, often better on 64 bit [01:14] also need to check your cpu supports it [01:15] I have lm flag in cpuinfo [01:16] the Video RAM is shared in system Memory [01:16] right ? [01:17] I believe so [01:17] I'd guess 32 bit is best looking at google [01:18] but in terms of selecting 32/64 bit, shared video memory is of no worry [01:18] ok [01:18] hamitron: bit confused [01:19] 32 bit is able to used upto 4Gb RAM [01:19] use* [01:19] at the moment I am running 32 bit OS [01:19] I'd stick with 32 bit then [01:19] :) [01:19] so it shows only 3.4 Gigs RAM [01:19] and 600mb is lost [01:19] oh [01:20] well, you will gain some memory by using 64 bit then [01:20] yes [01:21] since Video is consuming 256 mb ram [01:21] cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep -i RAM [01:21] so out of [01:22] 3.4 Gigs 256 is used by Video RAM [01:23] I've never been lucky enough to have that much RAM :) [02:00] kaushal: aptitude search `uname -r`-bigmem I think... [02:00] ...or the pae extension. [02:02] http://hacknmod.com/hack/100-software-based-arduino-simulator/ [02:02] :O [02:02] if it doesn't have a Linux version I'm going on a killing spree [02:03] no Linux, failed. [02:03] Azelphur: doesn't it destroy the point of the board? [02:03] Azelphur: ah, just the man [02:03] hamitron: *shrug* [02:03] dutchie: I'm the man? [02:03] Azelphur: did you say you had l4d2/steam running ok under wine? [02:04] yup, use it every day [02:04] any fiddling to tell me about? [02:04] nothing besides fonts no [02:04] fonts? [02:05] mscore things? [02:05] dutchie: the default font that wine uses looks really bad [02:05] so you need tahoma.ttf and arial I think [02:05] I just copy and pasted all my windows fonts into wine :D [02:05] i no longer have any windows fonts [02:05] but yea besides that it should still work [02:06] unless your using ATI [02:06] thanks [02:06] nope, intel [02:06] in which case...your screwed! [02:06] your very screwed. [02:06] nvidia > ati > intel a handy guide to Linux gaming [02:06] I've never got anything at all to work on intel xD [02:06] yay [02:06] :/ [02:06] this will be fun [02:06] indeed [02:06] try it by all means but I'm not hopeful [02:07] intel integrated graphics for gaming? [02:07] dutchie: why not pick up a cheap graphics card [02:07] * hamitron made his sister get nvidia graphics in her laptop so he can buy it off her later ;) [02:07] haha [02:08] Azelphur: laptop \o/ [02:08] ah \o/ [02:08] :\ [02:08] * Azelphur made special care that his laptop had an nvidia card in it [02:08] <-- glutton for punishment [02:08] hehe [02:08] Intel/ATI are best for desktop use because of the open drivers [02:09] but for gaming in wine, the nvidia proprietary drivers are pretty much the only way to go [02:09] I am still tempted to get some intel one [02:09] try it though, it has been a while, maybe you'll get lucky [02:09] just for reason Azelphur said [02:09] :) [02:09] hehe [02:09] * dutchie is about to try it [02:10] Azelphur: but about the arduino... [02:10] surely the whole point is to build something with it? [02:10] true but it'd be good for prototyping or people that don't have the money to get an arduino [02:11] guess so [02:12] just didn't want you getting lazy ;) [03:24] ping [03:24] ping raax.com [03:24] exit [06:21] what can i do to hide the cursor when using ffmpeg x11grab for a screen-cast ? [06:41] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/660613/how-do-you-hide-the-mouse-pointer-under-linux-x11 [06:42] http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/X11/contrib/utilities/unclutter-8.README :) [06:45] MartijnVdS, cept that doesnt seem to work when i tried it recently [06:46] could have been me though. [06:48] aah sorry it works. but i remembered wrong.. i had a different use case, where i wanted no mouse pointer whether its moved or not. [07:02] thanks MartijnVdS , i found that link its doesnt seem to be an easy task to hide the cursor [07:03] easiest way is to screencast only part of the screen and keep the mouse outside that area :) [07:03] it would be nice to have a compiz macro to hide the cursor, just like the one to show sparkles [07:12] in windows i could replace all the cursor icons with blanks [07:13] i just tested using another cursor theme and in the resultant video that theme is not recorded, just the basic pointer is there [07:29] Wayland should make this easier ;) [08:13] i am back at this early hour [08:18] everyone seems to be asleep this morning [08:19] how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly sometimes [08:28] can someone please guide me to install Flash on firefox 64 Bit, I am on 10.10 64 Bit [08:32] <_H> every time I use skype I have to agree to the t&c again [08:41] how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly sometimes [08:46] fire fox sometimes says the server is taking too long to respond but when i press refresh it seems to work, is this a bug [08:48] ? [08:57] hi everyone [08:58] morning all [08:59] AlanBell, morning [09:00] Good morning everyone [09:00] ryan_, morning [09:01] Phineas: you need to provide more information when asking questions [09:01] instead of " how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly sometimes" [09:03] AlanBell, how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly when the vurtual matchine is not doing much [09:04] I have a desktop/laptop with xGB of memory and processor Y it is running Ubuntu version foo and N virtualbox guest sessions, each running operating system bar and having bas GB of ram assigned. I timed a particular operation and it took this long with the VM running and that long with it stopped. [09:04] fill in the blanks [09:05] and what is the HDD light doing [09:12] Hi all... [09:12] Can anyone shed light on what is going on with Systems Updates at the moement? I've tried twice - and had to abort as the "Check" phase failed twice... [09:13] AlanBell, I have a laptop with 80GB of memory and Intell pentimum dual-core cpu it is running ubuntu (the latest) and vurtual box ose guest sessions, each running operating system wondows xp and having 993.0mb of ram (out of 1Gb of ram) assigned. I timed a particular operation and it took about 3mins with the vm running and 30secs with it stopped. the hdd light is blinking (fast) [09:13] After getting that to run successfully on third attempt - the "Install" phase had to be cancelled out (Obviously, i told my computer not to continue applying anything until the Update manager process runs cleanly) [09:14] by memory thats hdd space [09:14] I had 36 updates to collect, pulled 35 of tem.. but the 36th stopped dead in its tracks... while waiting of rit to download [09:15] phineas, can you run 'free -m' both when the vm is running and when it's stopped ? This will show whether the hdd activity is due to memory swapping [09:15] ryan_, no idea what free -m is [09:16] Why are my Systems Updates not coming down cleanly? [09:16] alexcckll, i notaced that [09:16] Has there been a major release? [09:17] phineas, apologies/ You need to open a terminal window (accessories - terminal) and type free -m in that [09:17] ryan_, no vm running less then a seccond [09:17] Or should I attempt updates midweek rather than at the weekend? [09:17] Phineas: you have 1GB of physical ram and you assigned 993MB to the guest? [09:18] AlanBell, i think so [09:18] and you see no issue with that [09:18] phineas, you could also try running vmstat 5 300. If you see large numbers under the si and so columns it means your ubuntu computer is swapping. It appears you have assigned too much vm memory (993 M) when your ubuntu machine only has 1000M [09:18] there are 1024 MB in a GB [09:19] phineas, that would only leave ~ 18MB for your ubuntu os. Hence the use of the swap memory [09:19] you have left 31MB for the host [09:20] ryan_, during the vm running free -m took about a seccond [09:20] AlanBell, yeah and its 'skippy [09:21] Phineas: try changing the ram allocation to the guest to around 400MB [09:21] AlanBell, ubuntu that is, well sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't [09:21] AlanBell, forgive me i just booted the vm [09:24] AlanBell, hum thats is weird my copy of windows did not pass validation [09:24] AlanBell, I do stand corrected. There are indeed 1024MB in 1 GB. [09:24] phineas, when you run free -m, what does the total swap and used swap values say ? [09:25] ryan_, 5 (no vm) 267 (with vm [09:26] Sorry, what do the numbers 5 (no vm) 267 (with vm) refer to ? [09:26] GB vs GiB [09:27] ryan_, amount of swap in use [09:27] Phineas: if you give almost all your ram to the guest the host will have none left, does this make sense? [09:28] AlanBell, yes [09:28] so don't do that! [09:28] or get more RAM [09:28] phineas, thanks for that. You should try to use less memory assigned to your vm guests. If you run 1 guest, I would suggest 512 MB. If you run 2 I would suggest 256MB each [09:29] I seem to recall when we used VMWare on Linux boxes at work - the boxes were really loaded for bear... and the guests had about 400Mb each [09:30] phineas, that way your host ubuntu OS will have enough memory to run without resorting to writing to and from the swap partition. Swap partition access is always slower than physical memory access hence the performance issue you are seeing [09:30] oh ok [09:31] phineas, the ideal situation would be to put more RAM in the box because if you assign too low a memory to your guests then they may themselves start to swap. Does this make sense ? [09:32] ryan_, yeah but i only have 1GB of physical ram [09:32] Oh - also probably a good idea to have swap on a different spindle to the VMs themselves.. [09:33] phineas, as a starting point I would suggest trying to run 1 guest only with 512MB of memory assigned to it. Can you let us know if you see the same issue when you do this ? [09:34] Umm - folks... any light shed on the Update Manager issue this morning? [09:34] ryan_, will do when i get round to doing it [09:34] I upgraded my host to have 8 GB of memory just to be able to run more than 1 vm [09:35] phineas, I've run windows xp guests with 512MB assigned in a host with 1GB a few years back so you should be fine [09:35] brb [09:36] dwatkins. How many guests do you run with that 8GB ? [09:36] oop everything just sped up when i hit shutdown [09:37] ryan_: I only just did the upgrade, but at least 2 or 3, I'm sure. [09:37] Great. I bet you have a meaty processor to go with all that memory too ;o) [09:38] core i7 [09:39] I work with server software and need to reproduce customer environments. [09:45] morning ratfans [09:56] popey, morning [09:58] Phineas: did changing the ram allocation to the guest fix it? [09:58] AlanBell, havn't tried yet [10:11] issyl0 is off doing awesome stuff again http://rewiredstate.org/events/dotgovlabs_weekender === thunder is now known as Guest25977 [10:17] 2 peope don't have a nick in here [10:18] what do you mean? [10:20] AlanBell, 2 people are knowen is guest [10:21] yeah, that is fine [10:24] * Phineas has just found something he wants for his birthday in 3 days time [10:25] A pony? [10:26] MartijnVdS, nope, a Phineas and Ferb T-shirt and some other stuff [10:27] which is cool [10:29] MartijnVdS, and nah i don't want a pony [10:32] I think you folks will find this one funny :) http://notalwaysright.com/accentuating-the-problem/8851 [10:32] AlanBell: oh thank you :) [10:34] has the UbuntuOneMusic store had an upgrade recently, seems very fast this morning? [10:34] Apacheuk: everyone who's on natty has broken u1ms.. maybe that's speeding it up? :) [10:36] MartijnVdS, could be.... either way I like it :) [10:37] time for some more GT5ing :) [10:37] Any other PS3/PSN users in here? [10:37] AlanBell: heh, we all know issyl0 is awesome ;) [10:37] MartijnVdS: am trying to convince my wife I NEED a PS3 for Christmas [10:38] Apacheuk: It's one of the cheapest blu-ray players [10:38] Apacheuk: need more convincing? :) [10:39] MartijnVdS: she does..... I already have a X360, Wii and a Blu-ray player.... any other suggestions? [10:40] I have to say I love the Rhythmbox integration to the notification area in 10.10 [10:41] Apacheuk, i don't [10:42] Phineas: reasons? [10:42] Apacheuk, don't use rythembox [10:42] Phineas: OK, good reason :) [10:44] Morning [10:45] aloha [10:45] orning [10:45] morning [10:47] hello [10:47] Hi [10:47] hi [10:53] nigelb: aww :) [10:59] Bah, python still building according to Ubuntu+1 :( === denny- is now known as denny [11:03] who'sfrom UK? [11:05] not me [11:07] a931bw, what do you want to know about the uk (even tho i don't live in the uk) [11:08] registering somewhere and there is : half of your password will be sent by text message to this phone [11:08] its UK only [11:08] i though maybe someone could help [11:09] a931bw, well one of my friends lives in the uk [11:09] could he help? [11:09] a931bw, yeah [11:10] whats his name? [11:10] a931bw, nick? [11:11] yeah [11:11] a931bw, he is Heinz_Doofensmirz (on irc [11:12] he's not on? [11:12] a931bw, he will be soon [11:13] there he is [11:13] m [11:14] a931bw, he is on now [11:21] a931bw, did he help [11:21] yes [11:22] a931bw, good to here that [11:23] l [11:23] k [11:59] i'm starting to run out of ideas on what to do on the computer] [12:05] any ideas? [12:05] Phineas: Have you tried sitting on it? :) [12:06] Apacheuk, thats not fun [12:06] erm.... [12:07] what do you normally do on it? [12:08] Apacheuk, youtube play games [12:16] read up on an interesting subject on Wikipedia [12:18] done that [12:22] Phineas: Triage some bugs [12:23] tyiage [12:29] * daubers ponders a brie and ham snadwhich [12:29] hug-a-bug :) [12:56] You know when you have a moment of sudden realisation about things... I've suddenly realised why I've struggled so much learning to program in various languages [12:57] really really wish the odd bits of tuition I had weren't of the order of "In VB you need to do this to make the GUI refresh" or "We do this here and this here to do this" and more of the "This is a class, it's a definition of an object" [12:58] Having now gone back and tought myself all those more abstract bits, every language seems to make a lot more sense [13:07] Meta-knowledge :) [13:29] teaching vs training [13:33] http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/ page peel :) [13:35] AlanBell: i think we should just make the site live [13:35] and then ask people to help fix stuff :) [13:42] AlanBell: Psychodelic! [13:43] psychodalek! [14:08] HAH! [14:08] ? [14:08] Startup this weeks podcast, and from the other room I hear yelled "GEEK TIME" as the the song starts [14:08] haha [14:14] I'm having a problem with my joggler running ubuntu 10.10, http://pastebin.com/MWAUCjGy [14:14] look at line 832 to 840 [14:14] it's remounting / as read-only, so I can't do much. [14:14] daubers: it is a bit loud [14:15] I failed in my various attempts to do it tastefully and neatly [14:15] so decided to go the other way and invite someone else to do it better [14:15] Heh :) [14:18] Azelphur: drive has a bad block in the journal. tbh you're lucky it works at all... [14:18] <_H> can I encrypt my home folder with aes256 and unmount it automatically on log out and mout at log in? [14:18] ali1234: so it's a physical fault? [14:18] _H: when you install Ubuntu there's an option to encrypt your home folder [14:19] <_H> http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/52820 [14:19] yes [14:19] ali1234: it's a microsd in a usb reader, think it's card or reader? [14:19] or no idea [14:19] card [14:19] <_H> I saw this see and I don't know how to take away the encryption [14:19] righto [14:19] <_H> I don't know the encryption standard [14:19] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 4067136 - this is the sector which failed [14:19] <_H> that's why I want to use aes256 [14:20] _H: "take away the encryption"? what do you mean> [14:20] <_H> the home folder is encrypted [14:20] _H: Cool. [14:20] yes, and it's unlocked on login and re-locked when your last sessions logs out [14:21] <_H> yes [14:21] so what's the problem? [14:21] <_H> that's what I want to do. but I want to use encryption standard aes256 [14:21] <_H> yes it may be slower but its unbreakable [14:22] <_H> nearly* [14:22] "unbreakable" - debatable. [14:22] Hah! "Very difficult to break" yes, unbreakable..... not convinced [14:22] _H: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/06/migrating-to-encrypted-home-directory.html [14:23] unbreakable within practical paramteres :) [14:23] <_H> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard [14:23] it don't know if you can set the cypher using ecryptfs-setup [14:24] <_H> it'd get me 9 months in prison for not giving the codes over [14:24] _H: Things are only unbreakable until modern computing catches up in speed terms to brute force them. [14:24] apparently AES256 is the default when using encrypted home already [14:24] _H: Enough torture and you'll give them your password :) [14:24] The lead pipe attack almost always works :) [14:25] http://xkcd.com/538/ [14:30] Does Ubuntu 10.10 have TRIM support? [14:30] OmNomSequitur: Yes. [14:37] Does Ubuntu 10.10 have DVD playback support? [14:38] I don't think it does 'out of the box' [14:38] you need to enable the non-free repositories [14:38] Ah. [14:38] but it's easy to install [14:38] (free as in freedom - they don't cost anything, they just don't let you alter them) [14:38] What about Blu-ray support? [14:38] I think it can play unencrypted DVDs out of the box [14:38] blu-ray is harder [14:38] I've no idea. I've still never seen a real-life blu-ray :) [14:38] You don't have a PS3? :O [14:39] no, the only games console I've got is my mega drive [14:39] Mega Drive > PS3 [14:39] or so I tell myself [14:40] Which linux commands would you say need a GUI frontend? [14:40] You can't decode h.264 with a Mega Drive. [14:40] Believe me, I've tried. [14:40] haha [14:41] domjohnson, the answer would be "nothing", in theory. [14:41] The GUI should just be a front-end for the CLI. [14:45] I would have thought the GUI is more a tool for people who don't know exactly what they want to do, but the CLI is a tool for people who already know exactly what they want to do [14:45] s/but/whereas [14:48] jacobw: there's several GUIs I use where I know exactly what I want to do [14:50] I don't believe the whole "GUIs are never as good as CLIs" line at all. There's no reason a GUI couldn't have the same advantages as a CLI [14:50] yes there is [14:50] what's that reason? [14:50] scripting a GUI is overcomplicated and requires the GUI to be specially coded in the first place [14:51] pipes [14:51] and redirection [14:51] two reasons alone for not using GUIs [14:51] right, you can't make a log from a GUI [14:52] gimp [14:52] you can't explain to people how to use it without screenshots etc [14:52] and inkscape [14:52] Text mode gimp [14:52] Go north 10 pixels [14:52] pen down [14:52] actually, that's logo :) [14:53] there actually is a cli interface to gimp [14:53] the choice between CLI and GUI is almost always an obvious one [14:53] there is no way you can say one is better than the other, or even that they are equal [14:53] i can understand GUI for creative tasks [14:53] You could do redirection in a GUI, though it'd probably be clumsy. But there's no reason you couldn't script a GUI in the same way as you script, say, Gimp or Office [14:53] graphics and audio for example [14:54] scripting in gimp and office is over complicated and bears to tresemblance to normal usage of the program [14:54] well, indeed, the mac has Automator built in for exactly taht [14:54] scripting the CLI is identical to using the CLI [14:54] well, basic scripting is [14:55] most people don't have loops in normal usage and the like. but if you're going to be scripting productively, you're going to be learning how to do that [14:55] the other great thing about the CLI is it hasn't changed in 20 years, unlike UIs, which for some reason have to be totally redesigned every few years to look fashionable, and then everyone has to relearn it [14:56] but there's no reason a GUI wouldn't have a way of sticking a bunch of tasks in for, while, find etc. loops. [14:56] you miss the point [14:56] a GUI can only do that if the author of the program spent time to actually create it [14:57] yeah [14:57] as in, if they bothered to make a good GUI [14:57] which 99.99% of developers will never do [14:57] (they do on OSX) :) [14:57] I've not tried to say there *is* a good GUI. Just that the crap GUIs are crap because they're crap, not because they're GUIs. [14:57] this just proves the point that it is easier to make a good CLI than to make a good GUI [14:57] But, say, AD is a pretty good GUI for what it's doing, and it has good text-based tools for when that's what you're after [14:59] what is AD? [15:00] MS Active Directoryu [15:00] I say 'good', I mean 'workable' [15:00] never used it [15:00] BigRedS: Urgh, AD's gui is horrid. Open Directories is much nicer [15:01] closest i got to it was the permissions GUI on win2k, which is an abomination [15:01] OK, so that's a better ldap-y gui :) [15:10] [Matt Daubney] Training vs Teaching - http://daubers.co.uk/2010/12/11/training-vs-teaching/ [15:18] the problem is that learning the theory of programming is extremely hard if you don't have anything to relate it to [15:19] yeah, I've had way more trouble getting the hang of oop than I should have done because I kept reading the theory and not just writing the code [15:19] oop in particular is something that only really clicks when you have already encountered the problem it is designed to solve [15:20] yeah, that was my problem. Only about three weeks ago I basically looked up and went "Aha!", as it just made sense [15:20] that was awesome. [15:20] if you learn the theory of oop and try to apply it without the necessary experience, you end up with code that is just as bad as if it did not use oop at all - with hundreds of pointless classes and lots of abstraction for no reason [15:20] ali1234: it helps if you have someone around who can set a good example :) [15:20] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrinciplesOfObjectOrientedDesign :) [15:22] yeah see, that page does not actually teach you anything, it's just a bunch of complicated words... [15:22] ali1234: unless you start reading the linked pages [15:22] ali1234: things like "law of demeter" [15:22] "Each responsibility should be a separate class, because each responsibility is an axis of change. " [15:22] lol this is just meaningless nonsense [15:22] that's just a jumble of words to me [15:23] It's "Model one thing in one class", but wordy [15:23] yeah, that's what I found. You just need to create some objects, fiddle with them, then stumble across soemthing that requires what you've learnt from teh fiddling [15:23] right, why can't they just write that then? [15:23] repeatedly [15:23] which is approximately how I managed procedural programming [15:23] is it perhaps because it's obvious? [15:25] ali1234: what about this guy's presentations then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEhu57pih5w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F72VULWFvc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlfLCWKxHJ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FRm3VPhseI [15:25] * MartijnVdS learned a lot from those [15:26] also to say "a class should model one thing" s not really useful [15:26] because how do you define a "thing?" [15:26] explaining "Global state is best avoided" with "Running the test suite cost me $100" is good :) [15:26] most "things" in the real world need several classes to model them [15:26] (credit card processing) [15:27] if you take it to the logical extreme of each class only representing one "thing" then you might as well say don't use classes at all, just use int, float, char... because anything more complicated than those is more than one "thing" [15:29] none of this stuff is the least bit useful if you don't know how to even write a simple program [15:30] SUre, but I thought we were talking about becoming a better programmer [15:30] nog becoming a programmer in the first place :) [15:30] not* [15:30] no, we are talking about becoming a programmer in the first place [15:32] are we? [15:32] well, you [15:32] but that's the easy bit. Becoming a good one is the hard part :) [15:32] I'm not saying much [15:32] <_H> my ubuntu desktop freezes often [15:33] specifically i'm talking about this teaching-vs-training blog post by daubers, linked above ^ [15:34] which is about him becoming a better programmer? [15:34] I thought it was.. :) [15:34] "They were doing the training first in the hope it would teach you something. What they should be doing is teaching you the concepts (all the “meta”) and the[n] train you in the language." [15:35] i posit that this is wrong, and that teaching theory of oop (for example) must happen after basic language training, otherwise it is just a lot of meaningless words [15:39] yeah, that makes sense [15:39]