[07:06] <ochosi> charlie-tca: hey
[07:06] <ochosi> charlie-tca: unfortunately the slider-screenshot is not online anymore
[07:07] <ochosi> charlie-tca: about the other thing: that's clearly thunderbird's fault :)
[13:07] <charlie-tca> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/127621
[14:41] <charlie-tca> ochosi: the shrinking icons appears to be something in xfce4.9 panel
[14:41] <charlie-tca> s/xfce4.9/xfce4.8
[14:54] <ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, what exactly on that screenshot?
[14:54] <ochosi> ah right
[14:54] <ochosi> now i get it
[14:54] <ochosi> you mean the scrollbars
[14:54] <ochosi> yeah, that's the idea that they blend in with the background
[14:55] <charlie-tca> yeah, the area for them is blended
[14:55] <ochosi> it's a design decision
[14:55] <charlie-tca> but the arrows help 
[14:55] <charlie-tca> Okay, That's what I wanted to know. 
[14:55] <ochosi> yeah, i didn't have those in earlier versions
[14:55] <ochosi> but obviously without arrows you have problems with ooffice and firefox
[14:55] <charlie-tca> and thunar, too
[15:00] <ochosi> really?
[15:00] <ochosi> i mean: having no arrows *breaks* openoffice
[15:00] <ochosi> you can't use the scrollbars anymore
[15:02] <charlie-tca> ouch.
[15:03] <charlie-tca> Thunar doesn't break without them, but it is harder to use the scrollbars if you blend into the background and have to grab the slider bar to scroll. I seldom hit those, it is easier to click the mouse to scroll.
[15:04] <charlie-tca> My hands are not steady enough to try and move the mouse to scroll
[15:05] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: alternate 386 installs today! first time since the alpha1 release
[15:24] <ochosi> charlie-tca: right, well as long as they are ok the way they are now i'm happy :)
[15:25] <charlie-tca> They are quite usable the way you have them. :-)
[15:25] <ochosi> what do you think about the window-manager theme?
[15:35] <charlie-tca> I like it. I would like a little more definition when looking at both active and inactive windows, but so far, it is real good.
[15:35] <charlie-tca> It isn't something that has to change, though
[15:35] <ochosi> ok, it's just a preliminary theme, it could be modified/exchanged
[15:36] <charlie-tca> I think the color is good. I have been using it and the icon set both
[15:37] <ochosi> ok, that's good to heat
[15:37] <ochosi> s/heat/hear
[15:37] <ochosi> i think mr_pouit preferres elementary, because it's not as colourful as faenza
[15:38] <ochosi> but maybe i can discuss this in more detail with him when he's around
[15:38] <charlie-tca> hm, I don't know. I have to have icons that I can distinguish, and elementary doesn't work for me. 
[15:39] <charlie-tca> But, that is minor, I can go with either set
[15:39] <ochosi> mhm
[15:39] <ochosi> well for me the main point is that the theme we're using is xfce-complete
[15:39] <ochosi> for visual consistency
[15:39] <charlie-tca> Yes, agreed
[15:39] <ochosi> but i think we can achieve that for either theme
[15:40] <ochosi> so in the end we can have a vote or something
[15:40] <charlie-tca> Edubuntu said they won't go with faenza now because too many others are using it
[15:40] <ochosi> a-ha
[15:40] <ochosi> that argument is a bit strange in my opinion
[15:41] <charlie-tca> yup
[15:41] <ochosi> i think we should go with what works best, not with what distinguishes us most
[15:41] <ochosi> otherwise we could just as well use the highcontrast-theme :p
[15:41] <charlie-tca> I prefer the idea it is the best for our use, not the best for everyone else.
[15:42]  * charlie-tca would not mind the highcontrast, but it probably is not ideal for most people
[15:42] <ochosi> hehe
[15:42] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[15:42] <charlie-tca> besides, that is easy enough to change. 
[15:43] <ochosi> you mean for the end-user?
[15:43] <charlie-tca> yes
[15:43] <ochosi> sure
[15:43] <charlie-tca> If they really don't like what we give them, they can change it easily. Most won
[15:43] <charlie-tca>  t, but hey, ...
[15:44] <charlie-tca> We just give them the best things we can for starting off. If they choose to keep them, that is great!
[15:44] <ochosi> yep
[15:54] <mr_pouit> yay, +1 for finding an icon theme that nobody uses ;>
[15:54] <mr_pouit> hey there
[15:54] <ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
[15:54] <ochosi> o/
[15:54] <charlie-tca> Good Morning, mr_pouit 
[15:54] <charlie-tca> I heard a rumor that Ubuntu might use faenza, too, but it just a rumor
[15:55] <ochosi> seriously? where did you hear that?
[15:55] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: ah, good for the alternate cd :)
[15:55] <charlie-tca> I don't remember, probably heard it on identi.ca
[15:55] <mr_pouit> is there a "shrinking icons" issue? In the systray?
[15:55] <charlie-tca> Going to try all the images today
[15:56] <ochosi> mr_pouit: you once said that faenza is too colorfull for you, would you like to specify that a bit? (i mean the toolbar and the panel are obviously monochrome. so everything else? or just the apps?)
[15:56] <charlie-tca> Yes, mr_pouit. The icons shrink until they disappear, or get so small they are no longer visible.
[15:56] <charlie-tca> That is in the panel, not the theme
[15:57] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I noticed that with xfce4-panel 4.7, icons in the systray are much smaller, but they are still visible here. Do you have a screenshot of that?
[15:57] <mr_pouit> ochosi: it was only when opening the apps menu yeah
[15:57] <charlie-tca> sure, let me upload the image
[15:58] <ochosi> mr_pouit: mm, so you mean the category-icons or the apps as well?
[15:58] <mr_pouit> ochosi: when opening the menu, I felt there was no theme identity, only a set of apps icons (i.e. no consistency, lots of different colors)
[15:58] <ochosi> mhm
[15:58] <ochosi> is that the same with app-finder?
[15:59] <mr_pouit> I'll retry faenza-xfce this evening then :)
[15:59] <ochosi> it's true that the ap-icon "consistency" mainly stems from the fact that they're all square-shaped :)
[15:59] <ochosi> okeydokey, thanks. i really appreciate some feedback here
[16:02] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: http://imagebin.org/127713 are the small icons
[16:02] <charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/127714 are the missing icons a few hours later the same day. Nothing was done to the computer, not even updates
[16:04] <mr_pouit> eek, ok
[16:04] <mr_pouit> I think you can report that upstream directly
[16:04] <charlie-tca> okay
[16:04] <ochosi> brr, doesn't look nice
[16:05] <mr_pouit> with a 24px panel, my icon aren't so mall
[16:05] <mr_pouit> *small
[16:05] <charlie-tca> huh?
[16:05] <charlie-tca> my panel is 40px
[16:05] <mr_pouit> maybe there's a miscalculation in the ratio
[16:06] <charlie-tca> and here is today's size - http://imagebin.org/127716
[16:07] <mr_pouit> http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6950 maybe
[16:08] <mr_pouit> yeah, it looks like your issue
[16:08] <charlie-tca> It does. I will attach the pics to it
[16:09] <mr_pouit> or http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6892
[16:10] <charlie-tca> look like duplicate reports. They are both the same issue
[16:10] <mr_pouit> yep
[16:20] <mr_pouit> anyway, regardless of my opinion on faenza (:p), I think we should decide soon. If we put it in daily builds early, we should be able to detect more issues (same for the panel layout). And we can even do several experiments/switch several times before the alpha 2, it's only a config file change (well, several, but no big deal).
[16:22] <ochosi> ok
[16:22] <ochosi> btw, i think the shutdown-dialog-buttons are hideous in faenza :)
[16:23] <charlie-tca> heh, it is!
[16:24] <ochosi> i mean we can also mix the two icon themes ;)
[16:24] <ochosi> but we might end up having no consistency at all
[16:24] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: if you prefer elementary, we can put it in. I don't trust my eyes that much on these
[16:25]  * charlie-tca thinks highcontrast icons are the best for seeing, which limits how hard he would push for anything icon related.
[16:25] <ochosi> mr_pouit: i don't mind deciding on the icon-theme soonish
[16:25] <ochosi> i won't be around for the rest of the week though
[16:26] <charlie-tca> ochosi: the thunar icon is really bright, too
[16:26] <ochosi> if next week is early enough...
[16:26] <ochosi> yeah, i know, faenza has really vivid colors
[16:26] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I am willing to let ochosi decide what works best with the theme
[16:27] <mr_pouit> (well, we have to keep elementary installed not to break upgrades anyway)
[16:27] <charlie-tca> we do?
[16:27] <charlie-tca> I had tango in use when I upgraded to natty
[16:27] <ochosi> hm, that's a strong argument for elementary
[16:28] <ochosi> cause faenza would add an additional 20-30mb to the iso
[16:28] <mr_pouit> mmh, not so sure, because svgs and pngs are reoptimized on the builders
[16:28] <mr_pouit> it's worth trying
[16:29] <ochosi> i already locally optimized the pngs
[16:29] <ochosi> it was still more than 20meg i think
[16:29] <mr_pouit> (and we can choose to remove elementaryXubuntu anyway, as long as we put a symbolic link to faenza-xfce, so people won't lose all icons on upgrade)
[16:30] <ochosi> right
[16:30] <ochosi> well, anyway, i wouldn't mind keeping elementary
[16:30] <ochosi> but feel free to test it for a while and we can decide next week, k?
[16:31] <mr_pouit> yeah, no hurry
[16:31] <ochosi> good
[16:48] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: even the live desktop makes me choose the panel configuration. How can I choose keep the old panel on a live cd?
[16:57] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: because the xubuntu-default-settings still keeps an "old" (= 4.6) config
[16:57] <mr_pouit> and the panel detects that as an old config (as expected), and proposes the migration
[16:58] <mr_pouit> It'll stay like that until we have decided on a new panel layout I guess
[16:58] <mr_pouit> (otherwise I'll have to handle a lot of moves of config files, and this is annoying)
[17:02] <charlie-tca> Okay, that's good then
[17:02] <charlie-tca> less work is better :-)
[17:20] <charlie-tca> progress... desktop 386 installed