[08:59] <RawChid> Hey, I want to get some info on the new moinmoin LoCo theme on wiki.ubuntu.com Anyone knows where I can find more about this project and its progress
[08:59] <RawChid> This is close, but didn't found anything useful yet: http://www.mail-archive.com/loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00215.html
[09:34] <thorwil> RawChid: perhaps ask newz in #ubuntu-web (or is it #ubuntu-website?). though i will likely be a few hours until he's available
[09:49] <thorwil> good morning
[09:51] <thorwil> iainfarrell: i hate pestering you, but: ubuntu brainstorm?
[09:59] <RawChid> thorwil: thnx
[10:02] <coz_> hey all
[10:08] <thorwil> hi coz_
[10:08] <coz_> thorwil,  hey guy
[10:08] <thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/designing-wallpapers-for-edubuntu-and-xubuntu/
[10:11] <kwwii> thorwil: nice post
[10:12] <thorwil> ty
[10:12] <coz_> thorwil,  especially that first paragraph
[10:13] <thorwil> :)
[12:06]  * thorwil whacks coz_'s connection
[12:07] <coz_> :)
[13:59] <woutervddn> just got a message from the ML.. I understand the thing about the mudfight now..
[14:01]  * vish  beginning to think john is delusional.. 
[14:03] <woutervddn> lol, why is that?
[14:17] <vish> it took me 10 mins to find the relevant links.. and he just couldnt have done that on his own!!
[14:19] <woutervddn> xD
[14:19] <woutervddn> you two seem to be good friends..
[14:42] <woutervddn> that was a long survey o_o
[14:47] <vish> woutervddn: "delusional" since i noticed that he thanked thorwil for the blog... 0.o   not sure why he thinks the Xubuntu/Edubuntu is wholly his effort..
[14:47] <woutervddn> nvrmnd it..
[14:48] <vish> woutervddn: Both Xubuntu/Edubuntu members joined the list only since *I* informed them to join and take part.. and the Xubuntu leader spoke to thorwil and saleel during the UDS.. ;)
[14:48] <woutervddn> vish: who made the questions for the survey?
[14:48] <vish> woutervddn: the person who requested to take part :)
[14:48] <woutervddn> vish: how long is he active in the team?
[14:48] <woutervddn> vish: how do you mean?
[14:49] <vish> woutervddn: the person who sent that mail asking to take part in the survey.. :)
[14:50] <woutervddn> ow, I thought it was one of you guys, since she asked if it was okay yesterday, I thought she just made a survey of your questions..
[14:50] <vish> woutervddn: not sure how long he is on the list, but the only activity from him was about his theme.. i forgot the theme name.. it's in the community package..
[14:51] <woutervddn> don't know, I'm here for only a month or so (might be 2 but still..)
[14:52] <woutervddn> anyways.. there was 1 remark I had about the survey questions (not to be picky, rather a mind spin of me..)
[14:53] <woutervddn> there was this question about: how do you find out about new projects..
[14:53] <vish> woutervddn: sure, you can reply to the mailing list as well.. it might be a common concern..
[14:54] <woutervddn> it's to late anyways,.. :) and not such a big deal..
[14:54] <woutervddn> so putting it on the (allready way to overwhelmed ML) wouldn't be a solution :p
[14:55] <woutervddn> I think there might be more usefull answers with a question like: how do you LIKE to find out about new projects..
[14:55] <woutervddn> the artwork team is unique in some way which creates needs for another type of communication..
[14:57] <woutervddn> (there is no dev team in the world that could manage with so many contributors, but in a place of artwork there can be)
[14:58] <woutervddn> *-) I might just post my idea to the ML afterall.. the more I think about it...
[16:58] <thorwil> woutervddn: some development teams are larger than the actually small group of active posters on the art list
[16:59] <thorwil> woutervddn: i wonder, do you use a mail client that supports threading, that is, shows mails in a tree-like fashion?
[17:00] <woutervddn> nowp I don't and I know that is a pain and it's not your fault.. :)
[17:01] <woutervddn> and true about the first thing and that's my point.. many people don't even read the ML because of the mails they get that don't involve the things that they like to work on..
[17:01] <woutervddn> for instance: if I've never used edubuntu and don't even know something about it, chances I'll feel attracted to make a wallpaper for it are way slimmer..
[17:02] <woutervddn> getting 40 posts about it isn't going to encourage me to read the ML..
[17:03] <woutervddn> [but yes clients with threading would make this easier to cope with]
[17:05] <thorwil> if you think ubuntu-art has a problem with the breadth of topics pr the amount of mails, you can't have seen many free software mailing lists, yet ;)
[17:08] <thorwil> not that a more fine grained and dynamic way of subscription/following wouldn't be nice, but no email alternative has taken off, so far
[17:30] <woutervddn> well it's part of my mail clients fault that it looks such a mess.. but I thought it might help to keep people focused..
[17:31] <woutervddn> 2 arts digests with almost exclusively RE:'s on the same topic aren't that desirable when you've got nothing to do with that topic (imo)
[17:32] <woutervddn> (apart from some nice mails from john to vish..)
[17:32] <woutervddn> (and back..)
[17:33] <vish> woutervddn: you havent seen the last one yet.. ;)
[17:33]  * vish just sent one now..
[17:34] <woutervddn> vish: can't wait until the next digest :p
[17:34] <woutervddn> No fighting!  be human!
[17:36] <thorwil> digest mode is an anti-feature
[17:37] <woutervddn> I can't keep up if I get all mails separately.. :)
[17:37] <woutervddn> I tried it, but when I'm at school for a whole day and come home I'll have like 50 messages then,.. gone overview :(
[17:38] <woutervddn> [remember the inability of my client to bundle the messages..]
[17:39] <thorwil> same solution: use a decent client ;)
[17:39]  * thorwil -> dinner
[17:40]  * woutervddn is guessing thorwil doesn't like my idea :p
[18:13] <thorwil> woutervddn: irc meetings tend to be no problem for vish or me, but for others they are. also, we can't wait for the next meeting every time decisions have to be made
[18:15] <woutervddn> I wasn't saying otherwise :)
[18:15] <woutervddn> I know that you guys go for it all the way.. but we both agree that others don't
[18:16] <thorwil> woutervddn: what's left from your idea, then?
[18:16] <woutervddn> my idea covered that.. exact same thing..
[18:18] <woutervddn> I said that the important decisions should be made in the IRC
[18:18] <woutervddn> the fact that's allready going on means that you're allready doing that part of the idea i suggest..
[18:19] <thorwil> woutervddn: you said "meetings", though, which to me suggests presence of everyone involved and a date and time scheduled in advance
[18:20] <thorwil> whereas here things are discussed ad-hoc, by who happens to be there
[18:20] <woutervddn> no, that wasn't what I meant, I allready said previously that IRC meetings with +200 people would end up in disaster..
[18:21] <woutervddn> I believe you take my mail as a threat.. (or at least that's what your reaction looks like..)
[18:21] <thorwil> we would never have 200+ people
[18:21] <woutervddn> figuratively speaking^
[18:22] <woutervddn> thorwil: I wasn't saying that was the way things should go, pls understand that :s
[18:22] <woutervddn> you look offended by what I wrote..
[18:22] <thorwil> woutervddn: no, i take your mail as being based on misunderstandings on extrapolating from your situation unto others
[18:22] <thorwil> woutervddn: i don't know why you think i would be offended
[18:23] <thorwil> woutervddn: i try to be patient in clearing up things for you, and what do i get? you think i'm offended
[18:23] <thorwil> shall i laugh or cry?
[18:23] <woutervddn> non of both pls..
[18:24] <woutervddn> I appreciate the fact that you are trying to clear things up, but from where I read your messages it looks like you're throwing everything in to counter..
[18:25] <woutervddn> the only thing I wanted to do is to create an open dialogue about it..
[18:26] <thorwil> an open dialog contains the possibility that all you get is contra arguments. which might be related to the idea at hand and have shit all to do with who suggested it
[18:28] <woutervddn> true, but the way you put it seems like you're 'biting off' (it's a saying in dutch, don't know if it's used in English as well)
[18:29] <woutervddn> and my mail is indeed based on extrapolation.. There isn't really a way around that I believe..
[18:30] <woutervddn> indeed you have a point when you say many things would be more clear if I'd have a client that would group the messages..
[18:33] <woutervddn> thorwil: btw, my 'personal, ideal situation' isn't all that different from what you're doing now (as I see it)..
[18:34] <woutervddn> now: allready IRC meetings are used for big concerns, the reports are allready in the ML, proposals, and approvals are allready in the ML and each page allready has its landing page..
[18:35] <woutervddn> the only things I was thinking of (suggesting is allready a word that is to big) is the fact that there would be sub-ML's on which you could subscribe..