[00:00] <JackyAlcine> \o
[00:01] <bioterror> who leads themeeting?
[00:06] <ChrisDruif> I haven't got forever....it's 1 am over here :P
[00:06] <bioterror> it's 2am in here
[00:07] <bioterror> and my alarm rings 05:15
[00:08] <tenach> I'll be for the meeting in a few.
[00:08] <ChrisDruif> I feel your pain bioterror, but I haven't set a alarm...(I've got that luxury xD)
[00:09] <bioterror> I gotta travel by train in the morning
[00:12] <JackyAlcine> ?
[00:17] <bioterror> so no meeting?
[00:24] <phillw> #startmeeting
[00:24] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:24. The chair is phillw.
[00:24] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:25] <phillw> #topic I'm sorry that the rest of team are not here, but I'd like to at least thank people who have stayed up
[00:26] <UndiFineD> :)
[00:27] <head_victim> phillw: psst, you need to use [TOPIC]
[00:27] <phillw> There are 4 topics to discuss, along with the ususal things.
[00:27] <starcraftman> go phillw!
[00:29] <phillw> Whilst we cannot hold votes, I would appreciate peoples ideas on the agenda
[00:29] <phillw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:31] <phillw> hiyas cprofitt can you take the chair over from me please,
[00:31] <cprofitt> phillw: sure
[00:31] <cprofitt> now sure how to do that though
[00:31] <starcraftman> your doing fine phillw, for the record :)
[00:31] <cprofitt> sorry for being late
[00:32] <starcraftman> hmmm, don't think ya can transfer chairs, end meeting and start again?
[00:32] <phillw> there are exactly zero UBT council people on here.
[00:32] <cprofitt> I am here now
[00:32] <phillw> #endmeeting
[00:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:32.
[00:32] <cprofitt> would have been there on time, but one of the children had an issue
[00:32] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[00:32] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:32. The chair is cprofitt.
[00:32] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:32] <starcraftman> phillw: my zerglings don't count eh, even if they are big?
[00:33] <cprofitt> thanks for being patient folks -- sorry about being late
[00:33] <cprofitt> Phillw did you go over your items?
[00:33] <starcraftman> cprofitt: we got to the link to the agenda.
[00:33] <cprofitt> ok
[00:34] <phillw> cprofitt: It really does seem like a complete waste of time, there is not a quorum, so no votes can be held & I've help people up way past their bedtimes.
[00:34] <cprofitt> the basic idea is stay as is -- everyone present votes
[00:34] <cprofitt> phillw: I am not aware of us requiring a qurom
[00:34] <cprofitt> with our global membership we really do not have that ability via IRC
[00:34] <phillw> cprofitt: I propose jarred
[00:35] <cprofitt> jarred?
[00:35] <UndiFineD> head_victim
[00:35] <cprofitt> ah...
[00:35] <starcraftman> if we don't have enough for votes we can always talk then vote on ml.
[00:36] <cprofitt> starcraftman: I, again, am not aware of us requiring a qurom
[00:36] <head_victim> Here
[00:36] <starcraftman> cprofitt: well, regardless of that, we don't have many to start with it seems.
[00:36] <phillw> cprofitt: Jared, A crazy mad Australian (as they all are) (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris), who has the knowledge, time and patience to help people who now belongs to phillw (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw) He's a great guy with a wonderful sense of humour. As a padawan for UBT (see ;padawan or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam)
[00:36] <cprofitt> phillw: ah... thanks... but not sure that is on topic currently
[00:37] <cprofitt> membership changes
[00:37] <cprofitt> is what we are currently on
[00:37] <cprofitt> the options are - stay as is with team vote by attending members each meeting or change to a process which involves the council voting.
[00:38] <phillw> cprofitt: I fully support what you have proposed at option 2, it is most of what I have then also proposed.
[00:38] <cprofitt> the council vote if adopted would include current members and community members being able to leave testimonials on a prospective member and the council would then vote
[00:39] <phillw> cprofitt: you have a massive +1 from me for the council vote.
[00:39] <cprofitt> [vote] all those in favor of council approved membershi process
[00:39] <MootBot> Please vote on:  all those in favor of council approved membershi process.
[00:39] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:39] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:39] <cprofitt> +1
[00:39] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:39] <phillw> +1
[00:39] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:39] <bioterror> +1
[00:39] <MootBot> +1 received from bioterror. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:39] <tenach> +1
[00:39] <MootBot> +1 received from tenach. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:39] <cprofitt> anymore votes?
[00:39] <starcraftman> +0
[00:39] <MootBot> Abstention received from starcraftman. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:40]  * starcraftman doesn't care either way, votes don't make the team.
[00:40] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:40] <cprofitt> [endvote]
[00:40] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
[00:40] <cprofitt> [agreed] the council will now approve members based on testimonials
[00:40] <MootBot> AGREED received:  the council will now approve members based on testimonials
[00:41] <cprofitt> phillw: I see your propsal, but would like to offer what our current process is....
[00:41] <cprofitt> it currently involves the team lead, associated team and the council
[00:41] <cprofitt> with the final decision being a council decision
[00:41] <cprofitt> does your proposal change that
[00:42] <phillw> cprofitt: my proposal was a reinforcement of the council granting mentorship to people.
[00:42] <cprofitt> ok... so no need for a vote or a change then?
[00:43] <phillw> cprofitt: the only thing I would comment on, is that UBT has a member, who is not granted mentorship status... but that is covered more in topic 4 :)
[00:44] <cprofitt> ok
[00:44] <cprofitt> phillw: we have a process for forming a new focus group
[00:45] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FGCreation
[00:45] <cprofitt> also,... there are times when a sub-group can be created under the umbrella of an existing larger team
[00:46] <phillw> I'm sorry, that at such short notice that their team leader cannot be here. As you will know, I am a proponent of accessibility
[00:46] <cprofitt> our intent was to not have a constant flow of launchpad teams, irc channels and mailing lists
[00:46] <cprofitt> phillw: I agree with accessibility and it was one of my UDS take-a-ways to enlarge the roll that UBT has with that
[00:47] <cprofitt> the real question is if the team requires its own 'FG' or can it exist under a current one
[00:47] <phillw> cprofitt: as accessibility covers such a wide area, having sub teams within it is more manageable. (they already have one)
[00:48] <cprofitt> so currently we have documentation, user support, bugs and documentation
[00:48] <cprofitt> I see all of those core teams having roles in accessibility
[00:48] <phillw> cprofitt: as it is drawing in devs, coders, admin, documentors - I do honestly think that it needs a FG
[00:49] <cprofitt> I would recommend following the steps here --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FGCreation
[00:49] <cprofitt> the council can then work with the accessibility team to determine if / when we can form a sep. FG for it
[00:50] <phillw> cprofitt: all teams work together, but having an accessibility FG will go along way towards Jono said at ADS-N
[00:50] <phillw> *UDS-N
[00:50]  * cprofitt nods
[00:50] <cprofitt> please read the page and we can follow-up on the creation of a FG team
[00:50] <phillw> cprofitt: task it to me, I will get it doen.
[00:50] <phillw> *done*
[00:51] <cprofitt> [task] phillw to work with accessibility team and council to consider forming a FG for accessibility
[00:51] <cprofitt> take it away phillw
[00:52] <phillw> he he...... the one that has been causing the council people so many headaches.
[00:52] <phillw> We are not fully adopted, but kindly taught by teams as if we are.
[00:53] <cprofitt> not following phillw
[00:54] <phillw> People who find lubuntu are usually experienced, so them wishing to help new comers is a big plus.
[00:55] <Pici> /topic isn't a mootbot command
[00:55] <cprofitt> please continue phillw
[00:56] <starcraftman> phillw: you want us to do some work for lubuntu itself? Promotion? support?
[00:57] <phillw> as part of the discussions, it was stated that Lubuntu is fairly self sustaining, and we have some really experienced people who are prepared to help padawans. My proposal is that via all the Lubuntu needs a padawan will be very well suited to apply for UBT, and ubuntu membership
[00:57] <cprofitt> alright... thanks phillw
[00:58] <cprofitt> phillw: you are putting forth head_victim for a vote?
[00:58] <phillw> cprofitt: I keep tripping over MOTUs' :D
[00:58] <cprofitt> our last team vote after the adoption of our new membership process?
[00:58] <cprofitt> [vote] all in favor of head_victim as a member
[00:58] <MootBot> Please vote on:  all in favor of head_victim as a member.
[00:58] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:58] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:58] <phillw> +1
[00:58] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:59] <ubuxubu> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from ubuxubu. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:59] <starcraftman> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:59] <head_victim> For those that don't know me https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris has some info
[00:59] <cprofitt> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:59] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:59] <head_victim> Just in case
[00:59] <bioterror> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from bioterror. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:59] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:59]  * JackyAlcine is away: I'm busy
[00:59]  * JackyAlcine is back (gone 00:00:01)
[00:59] <cprofitt> [endvote]
[00:59] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[00:59] <cprofitt> [agreed] head_victim is a UBT member
[00:59] <MootBot> AGREED received:  head_victim is a UBT member
[00:59] <starcraftman> cprofitt: not leaving much time for intros eh? :)
[01:00] <cprofitt> we will have to wait for nhandler or another irc op to give you voice in channel
[01:00] <cprofitt> starcraftman: yeah sorry...
[01:00] <cprofitt> alright 8:00 on the dot folks
[01:00] <cprofitt> thanks for coming to the meeting!
[01:00] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[01:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:00.
[01:01] <cprofitt> mootbot appears to be a tad off on the time :-)
[01:01] <cprofitt> ok folks... we can move to our channel
[01:01]  * JackyAlcine is away: Message me if needed.
[01:01] <UndiFineD> congrats head_victim !
[01:01]  * JackyAlcine is back (gone 00:00:27)
[01:02] <head_victim> UndiFineD: thanks :)
[01:04] <ChrisDruif> Congratz head_victim :)
[01:04]  * ubuxubu motions head_victim to stand up and recite his acceptance speech...
[01:04] <ChrisDruif> +1
[01:04] <head_victim> Thanks one and all glad I got up early to attend
[01:06] <hajour> congratulations head_victim
[03:25] <UBuxuBU> meeting adjourned!
[10:38] <leomanFX> hi
[15:59] <cjwatson> robbiew: sorry, I tried to make it onto mumble but it wasn't having any of it today :-/
[16:02] <robbiew> cjwatson: no worries
[16:02] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is robbiew.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <Keybuk> Mumble isn't working for me today either
[16:02] <Keybuk> SSO refuses to believe I'm a member of any teams or something
[16:02] <robbiew> yeah...I have to stop chrome browser
[16:02] <robbiew> then I can start it
[16:02] <ev> Keybuk: well, you're not.
[16:03] <robbiew> I suspect pulseaudio
[16:03] <Keybuk> ev: I am under scott@canonical.com
[16:03] <ev> Didn't you get the memo?  You were fired for bringing down codehosting the other day.
[16:03] <Keybuk> they still haven't fixed that
[16:03] <ev> of course they haven't, it's Launchpad
[16:04] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:04] <robbiew> ev?
[16:04] <ev> damn, first
[16:04] <robbiew> evnizzle
[16:04]  * ev types furiously
[16:04] <ev> hahahaha
[16:04] <mvo> hi
[16:05] <robbiew> mvo: hi
[16:05] <robbiew> ev: we'll circle back ;)
[16:05] <ev> thanks!
[16:05] <robbiew> barry?
[16:06] <barry> ftbfs fixed, worked on, inprogress: 685180 (nipy, scikit-learn, cvxopt), 685177 (psyco), 685479 (pyclutter), 685469 (pymvpa), 688721 (shogun), 594919 (pyliblzma), 685492 (python-evas), 685486 (python-ecore), 685495 (python-hildon), 688862 (pycaml); platform futures meeting; udd blueprint work items; python bug 10687 (abiflags); done.
[16:06] <robbiew> nice...thanks
[16:06] <barry> heh, not that one ubottu
[16:06] <robbiew> cjwatson: ?
[16:06] <cjwatson> done: GRUB background colour and automatic resolution detection (OMG complexity but now works I think); should now hand off quite smoothly to Plymouth at least under good conditions - text-free boot!
[16:06] <cjwatson> todo: review debconf GNOME->GtkAssistant patch; glue in maverick backport kernels for 10.04.2; start back in on porting CD boot screens to GRUB
[16:07] <cjwatson> --
[16:07]  * robbiew is reminded to test the new grub stuff ;)
[16:07] <robbiew> cjwatson: thnx!
[16:07] <robbiew> doko:?
[16:07] <cjwatson> it works better with a kernel tweak that's not been uploaded yet
[16:08] <robbiew> cjwatson: ah..okay
[16:08] <robbiew> I'll wait
[16:08] <cjwatson> but that's on its way
[16:08] <robbiew> :)
[16:08] <doko> - more python2.7 work, current status: main can be upgraded besides xen-3.3, still some packages use libpython2.6 only, so have to be investigated.
[16:08] <doko> - upgrade issue: python-defaults for maverick-updates needed, better yesterday than today.
[16:08] <doko> - eucalyptus/openjdk-6 fixes for maverick
[16:08] <doko> - openjdk-7 update in openjdk PPA
[16:08] <doko> - toolchain updates for Linaro 2010-12 releases
[16:08] <doko> - fixing package build failures (~100 together with python2.7 fixes)
[16:08] <doko> - get component-mismatches down to 1 needed for promotion
[16:08] <doko> done
[16:08] <doko> and universe is down to 8 uninstallable packages requiring python (<< 2.7)
[16:09] <robbiew> \o/
[16:09] <robbiew> wow
[16:09] <mvo> nice
[16:09] <robbiew> thnx doko
[16:09] <robbiew> mvo:?
[16:09] <mvo> Deb-thumbnailer: work making it suitable for main; apt: merged new debian-sid branch; changelogs-crawler: debug still missing changelogs for some pkgs, file #685814; rapt: ported to python-apt 0.8; software-center: work with the rnr-server people, ported to aptdaemon 0.40 api, compat fixes for maverick, refactor refresh_apps() (much cleaner now), various merges, fix unneeded applist-refresh issues, work on lp:~mvo/software-center/no-search-r
[16:09] <mvo> esults-help (spelling suggestions etc), work on the reviews client; Update-manager: port to aptdaemon 0.40
[16:10] <mvo> (done)
[16:10]  * robbiew still reading
[16:11] <robbiew> mvo: thnx
[16:11] <robbiew> psurbhi is still out
[16:11] <robbiew> jhunt: ?
[16:11] <jhunt> Implemented the new debug and manual stanzas in Upstart. Currently
[16:11] <jhunt> working on "override files" feature. Met up with Scott in London
[16:11] <jhunt> yesterday and released upstart-0.6.7 "Return of the Mole".
[16:11] <jhunt> Started to look at bug 688541. Today have been working on overrides and
[16:11] <jhunt> then got distracted into looking at bug 683605 by apw. I've now got a
[16:11] <jhunt> fix, but will require someone to review this as the fix is only slightly
[16:11] <jhunt> less dangerous than not fixing the problem! :-)
[16:12] <cjwatson> note that busybox needs to be changed for that as well
[16:12] <Keybuk> it turns out that the hardest part for jhunt of doing the upstart release was coming up with a name for it ;p
[16:12] <ev> mmm Mole
[16:12] <jhunt> cjwatson: 683605?
[16:12] <cjwatson> yeah
[16:12] <cjwatson> I added a bug task
[16:13] <jhunt> I'll have to chat to you about that. I believe that libmagic1 should also be changed to recognize the new signature.
[16:13] <cjwatson> probably much the same fix, will be obvious if you grep
[16:13] <robbiew> Keybuk: lol
[16:13] <robbiew> jhunt: fantastic...thanks!
[16:13] <jhunt> I've got a highly dodgy postinst script for review :) It uses dd to to bad things :)
[16:13] <jhunt> EOT
[16:14] <robbiew> dd...not so fantastic :P
[16:14] <robbiew> Keybuk: ?
[16:14] <Keybuk> - done: lots more work on temporal events
[16:14] <Keybuk> - done: added properties for start_on, stop_on and emits; these make  james' visualisation work item much easier and make doing bridges
[16:14] <Keybuk>   rather fun
[16:14] <Keybuk> - done: built on top of the previous, I wrote a socket activation
[16:14] <Keybuk>   bridge for Upstart.  Still draft code at this point, but it works.
[16:14] <Keybuk> - done: added chroot and user session support to Upstart, again a
[16:14] <Keybuk>   draft patch since some behaviours (initctl list as a user) need
[16:14] <Keybuk>   careful thought.
[16:14] <Keybuk>   * but basically, "initctl list" in a chroot now goes "ooh, a chroot"
[16:14] <Keybuk>     and parses $root/etc/init/*.conf into a new session
[16:14] <Keybuk> - done: released upstart 0.6.7 upstream
[16:14]  * jhunt things scott wrote that real-time :)
[16:14] <jhunt> s/things/thinks
[16:14] <jhunt>  s/things/thinks/
[16:15]  * robbiew is excited about his background switching to windows on april fools day
[16:15] <robbiew> :)
[16:15] <robbiew> thnx Keybuk
[16:15] <Keybuk> just don't put in "April 31st"
[16:15] <mvo> user-session \o/
[16:16] <robbiew> ev: ?
[16:16] <ev> Platform Futures planning.  Finally got the installer testing stuff moved into the millbank datacenter and pretty much operational (should be working on every commit to ubiquity bzr).  Dumping as much as I can to the wiki. Trying to get to the bottom of why the installer window stops rendering at the timezone page.
[16:16] <ev> Trying to work out how to smoke test the generated live filesystems so I don't have to go in the datacenter every time someone breaks the boot, but I think I'll ditch that as it'll be too much work to get a VM inserted into this.  Some small patches to ubiquity per OEM services' request.
[16:16] <ev> TODO: Mail to sabdfl about Wubi plans. Getting pitti's gtk3 branch of usb-creator working, getting the grub2 usb-creator stuff finished.  Further untangling this oem spec for natty.  Getting individual ubiquity component testing working.
[16:16] <ev> (done)
[16:17] <robbiew> sweet...thnx ev
[16:18] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
[16:18] <robbiew> I haven't been paying close enough attention to bugs...for any of my teams :/
[16:18] <robbiew> but if folks have issues...speak now!
[16:19] <barry> i'm running it in a vm that does not have 3d.  i can't figure out how to switch to classic that it keeps warning me about
[16:19] <cjwatson> not really bugs, but I'm a bit worried about http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html - we're still technically within the trend line, but we had a bit of a head start
[16:19]  * robbiew looks
[16:19] <cjwatson> we're certainly making progress, but do please try to kick the tyres on the work items list each day a bit
[16:20] <Keybuk> isn't that technically all mvo's work items? :-)
[16:20] <mvo> pfffffff
[16:21] <cjwatson> some individuals have more impact on the graph than others, yes :)
[16:21] <robbiew> lol
[16:21] <doko> I'd like to see the python-defaults migration to -updates as soon as possible
[16:21]  * mvo hides
[16:22] <cjwatson> please debate that with pitti - I did look at the bug, but he's been very definitely on top of that bug so I don't want to jump in
[16:22] <cjwatson> does that bug need an update-manager task, if it's going to need a specific package installed from -updates before upgrading from maverick to natty?
[16:22] <mvo> I added one
[16:23] <mvo> I think I will just patch pycompile when the upgrade starts
[16:23] <mvo> this way I don't need to worry about enabling -updates if its missing etc
[16:23] <doko> I didn't hear back from him, will raise the priority
[16:25] <robbiew> okay....moving on
[16:25] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/GoodNews?
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/GoodNews?
[16:26] <cjwatson> Rick's pulling me in to deal with a custom CD image job - Robbie, you may well know about it already.  I don't expect it will take very long, though, as we've been pretty brutal about the scope
[16:26] <robbiew> ah yes
[16:27] <robbiew> HR says everyone needs to have objectives in by this month, or no raise/bonus next year....they will send me a list of the "culprits"
[16:28] <Keybuk> phew
[16:28] <cjwatson> I honestly don't know whether I have or not - would appreciate it if you could let me know if I'm a culprit!
[16:28] <Keybuk> no need for me to worry about objectives then
[16:28] <jhunt> robbiew: I got access to allhands today so can now try adding some :)
[16:28] <robbiew> jhunt: cool
[16:29] <robbiew> cjwatson: ack
[16:29] <robbiew> Keybuk: heh
[16:29] <robbiew> okay...ending 30min early
[16:29] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:29] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:29.
[16:29] <barry> cjwatson: yeah, me too ;)
[16:29] <robbiew> thnx all!
[16:29] <ev> thanks!
[16:29] <mvo> thanks
[16:30] <jhunt> thanks
[18:59] <highvoltage> good afternoon/evening
[18:59]  * charlie-tca waves
[19:00] <highvoltage> howdy charlie-tca
[19:00] <highvoltage> Meeting page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[19:01] <highvoltage> I was wondering, should we have a meeting on 22 and 29 December?
[19:01] <highvoltage> next alpha is only in February and we don't really have much planned for the next two weeks
[19:01] <alkisg> Hi all
[19:02] <highvoltage> mgariepy, stgraber, mhall119, nixternal: (poke, btw)
[19:02]  * alkisg thinks we can take a break for holidays..
[19:03] <mhall119> o/
[19:03] <highvoltage> I changed the next meeting time for 5 January 2011 then
[19:03] <mhall119> ok
[19:03] <highvoltage> if anyone feels strongly about it they can schedule a meeting in the meantime then
[19:04] <mhall119> I'll just ping you when I need you
[19:04] <highvoltage> we're always in #edubuntu anyway so it's not like we even really need meetings, it's just useful for reporting mostly I guess
[19:04] <highvoltage> I updated our roadmap page a bit this morning: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:05] <highvoltage> just some minor changes since last time
[19:05] <highvoltage> we also now have daily builds again, we had a broken package due to the python transition for about a week
[19:05] <highvoltage> I tested today's daily build and it's actually quite good, except for LTSP being broken
[19:06] <highvoltage> The iTalc link is now hidden on the live environment since it doesn't work anyway
[19:06] <highvoltage> (at least not in live)
[19:07] <highvoltage> some more good news,
[19:07] <highvoltage> dinda and mhall119 are now finally edubuntu-members
[19:07] <highvoltage> heh, and dinda was just in time to miss that
[19:08] <highvoltage> hey dinda
[19:08] <highvoltage> 14:09 < highvoltage> some more good news,
[19:08] <highvoltage> 14:09 < highvoltage> dinda and mhall119 are now finally edubuntu-members
[19:08] <highvoltage> mhall119 also applied for edubuntu-dev and became one just before this meeting, he's now an official edubuntu developer
[19:08] <charlie-tca> Congratulations dinda and mhall119
[19:08] <highvoltage> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2010-December/003666.html
[19:10] <highvoltage> that's about it from me this week
[19:10] <dinda> highvoltage: thanks!
[19:10] <highvoltage> mhall119: would you like to update us on the launcher stuff?
[19:10] <dinda> I saw the auto-notice from LP that I'd been added to the group
[19:10] <highvoltage> dinda: and do you have anything from your side?
[19:11] <dinda> highvoltage: nothing new here
[19:14] <highvoltage> I'd like to talk about edubuntu-dev and how edubuntu-council members who are edubuntu-developers should really be members there, but we don't have everyone here atm so I'll just bring it up in #edubuntu or on the list again
[19:14] <mhall119> sorry, had to step away for a minute
[19:15] <mhall119> so, xdg-launcher 0.0.4 is, IMO, good enough for Qimo at this point
[19:15] <mhall119> and daker is doing a lot of work, borrowing code from ADeskBar, to add even more improvements
[19:15] <mhall119> so I can definitively say that it will be a part of Qimo 3
[19:16] <highvoltage> cool
[19:16] <mhall119> instead of separate qimo-session-gnome and qimo-session-xfce, I'm going to stick with just one package that will look for either /usr/bin/startxfce4 or /usr/bin/gnome-session and decide which to use
[19:16] <stgraber> highvoltage: I'm fine with not having any meeting during the holidays
[19:16] <mhall119> since ~50% of the configs for qimo-session had to do with the launcher anyway
[19:17] <mhall119> my TODO list is:
[19:17] <mhall119> * re-name xdg-launcher to something non-xdg-branded (probably qimo-launcher)
[19:18] <highvoltage> stgraber: would it be fine adding qimo-games, qimo-session, qimo-wallpaper and qimo-launcher to the edubuntu package set?
[19:18] <mhall119> * update qimo-wallpaper and qimo-games to 3.0 (nothing major)
[19:18] <mhall119> * make qimo-session work for either Xfce or Gnome
[19:18] <mhall119> * make qimo packages for GDM and plymouth themes
[19:18] <stgraber> highvoltage: I guess it'd be easier if we first seed them to have them in the dvd pool, then poke cjwatson to update the package set
[19:18] <mhall119> oh, and qimo packages for ubiquity slides
[19:19] <mhall119> then start building the CD from scratch (or ubuntu base squashfs) and see how much room I have
[19:19] <highvoltage> mhall119: ok, we could seed them when they don't explicitly depend on xfce anymore
[19:20] <mhall119> highvoltage: oh, hmmm, you know what, maybe I will need separate -gnome and -xfce packages, for the dependencies
[19:21] <mhall119> unless I can do Depends: (set of gnome packages) | (set of xfce packages)
[19:21] <mhall119> is that possible?
[19:21] <stgraber> you can
[19:21] <highvoltage> mhall119: that was exactly what stgraber and I just discussed :)
[19:21] <mhall119> ok, I knew you can do packageA | packageB
[19:21] <mhall119> was sure about groups of them
[19:21] <mhall119> okay then, just one qimo-session backages with convoluted Depends
[19:22] <mhall119> gah, my typing is terrible
[19:22] <mhall119> hope that made some kind of sense
[19:23] <highvoltage> you'll probably just use the gnome-session or xfce-session meta-packages instead
[19:24] <mhall119> ok, xfce4-session has everything in Recommends, but I guess that's okay
[19:24] <highvoltage> not sure how complicated those sets of packages need to be, but if you'd like to get a 2nd opinion or need some ideas feel free to poke me
[19:24] <mhall119> ok
[19:24] <highvoltage> recommends are installed by default anyway
[19:25] <highvoltage> so it should be fine. recommended packages can be removed without the metapackage being removed
[19:25] <highvoltage> but that should be fine
[19:25] <highvoltage> (my typing/communication also sucks today :p)
[19:26] <charlie-tca> xfce is modular, so without the recommends, a lot of things quit working
[19:26] <mhall119> but if qimo-session depends on xfce4-session, and you apt-get install qimo-session, it will get all the Recommends
[19:26] <mhall119> so that should be fine
[19:26] <highvoltage> I doubt most users would go ahead and remove random xfce packages though.
[19:27] <mhall119> does apt give preference to which comes first in a Depends: A | B
[19:27] <mhall119> if you have neither installed
[19:28] <mhall119> nevermind, we can take this back to #edubuntu, it's not part of the meeting
[19:28] <highvoltage> well, we don't have much else happening at the meeting, but you're probably right we can take it back to #edubuntu
[19:28] <highvoltage> anything else for the meeting?
[19:28] <mhall119> so, long story short: Qimo 3 is coming along well, and should be ready for inclusion in Edubuntu soon
[19:29] <mhall119> hopefully in time for alpha 2
[19:29] <highvoltage> mhall119: are you going to make a qimo release on 11.04?
[19:29] <mhall119> highvoltage: yes
[19:29] <highvoltage> cool
[19:29] <mhall119> or shortly after
[19:29] <mhall119> as close to the *buntu release date as possible
[19:30] <highvoltage> ok
[19:31] <highvoltage> well, I guess that's it for this meeting then. back to #edubuntu!
[19:31] <highvoltage> *GONG*
[20:15] <akshatj> Would the meeting for Ubuntu Membership be held here?
[20:15] <pleia2> yes
[20:16] <akshatj> I can go to sleep then :D
[21:02] <jelmer-n900> evening!
[21:02] <barry> #startmeeting
[21:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:02. The chair is barry.
[21:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:02] <poolie> hi all
[21:03] <barry> hi folks and welcome to this week's udd stakeholder's meeting
[21:03] <barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101215
[21:03] <barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101215
[21:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101215
[21:03] <barry> who's here today?
[21:03] <jelmer-n900> me
[21:03]  * slangasek waves
[21:04] <barry> james_w: ?
[21:05] <barry> thumper: ?
[21:05] <james_w> hey!
[21:05] <barry> ajmitch: ?
[21:05] <thumper> I'm kinda here
[21:05] <barry> thumper: how early in the morning is it for you? ;)
[21:05] <thumper> barry: 10am
[21:05] <barry> oh that's not too bad
[21:06] <barry> let's start...
[21:06] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[21:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[21:06] <barry>   * ajmitch to come up with questions/topics for next meeting (re: REVU)
[21:06] <barry>  
[21:06] <barry> i don't know if ajmitch is around, so let's leave that one for now
[21:06] <barry>   * poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list
[21:06] <barry>  
[21:07] <poolie> sorry, not done
[21:07] <poolie> keep it
[21:07] <barry> cool
[21:07] <barry>   * barry & poolie to add work items to [[https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-foundations-n-distributed-development-review-and-planning|UDD blueprint]]
[21:07] <barry>  
[21:07]  * ajmitch is kind of here
[21:08] <barry> i did add some work items from our last meeting, but could use poolie's review of it
[21:08] <barry> ajmitch: hi.  are you ready to talk about REVU, or should we push that back to next time?
[21:08] <poolie> i think they're plausible
[21:09] <poolie> there are a tonne of others, but i think they're good for ~april
[21:09] <ajmitch> I have some initial notes/comments about it
[21:09] <barry> poolie: cool.  feel free to adjust, decompose, reassign, etc. as you will.  the screenscrapers will keep up
[21:09] <barry> ajmitch: i'll put it on the agenda for later
[21:09] <ajmitch> really rough list that I came up with to start a discussion at http://paste.ubuntu.com/544185/
[21:10] <barry> ajmitch: cool. let's blow through the bugs and then talk about it
[21:10] <ajmitch> ok
[21:10] <barry> [TOPIC] bugs of interest
[21:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  bugs of interest
[21:10] <barry> are there any updates on the bugs at the agenda url above?  i know i have not had time to work on any of them :(
[21:11] <poolie> some
[21:11] <poolie> a fix for direct commits to stacked branches is underway
[21:11] <poolie> we did some network performance fixes
[21:11] <jelmer-n900> i fixed a bzr builder bug, not sure if it was on the list
[21:12] <poolie> exarkun should fix the conch breakage on huge pulls by january
[21:12] <jelmer-n900> and without browser atm
[21:12] <poolie> oh, spiv i think fixed the tags thing
[21:12] <poolie> good for you
[21:12] <poolie> so, a decent bit of progress
[21:12] <barry> yep, really fantastic
[21:12] <poolie> perhaps we should re-fill that list when we next meet (i assume in january)
[21:13] <barry> poolie: +1, and +1
[21:14] <barry> i've done a ton of branches in the last two weeks and have noticed two things that kind of hit me often.  i'll describe them and perhaps you can tell me if bugs need to be filed
[21:14] <barry> the first is that merge-upstream on maverick doesn't know about natty.  i always have to fire up my natty vm, do the merge-upstream, push the branch to lp, and then go back to mav (my main dev box), pull the branch and proceed from there
[21:15] <poolie> ouch
[21:15] <poolie> i think you should file a bug; james can close it if it's already fixed
[21:15] <poolie> it sounds like at minimum a ui or doc gap
[21:15] <barry> poolie: will do, thanks
[21:16] <barry> the other thing i notice, and i'm not sure it's a bug, is that it's problematic to get the changelog entry right.  dch -i doesn't cut it for a few reasons:
[21:16] <jelmer____> barry: Wasn't there somebody looking at doing a SRU to cope with that?
[21:17] <barry> jelmer____: i dunno, but poolie or james_w might
[21:17] <jelmer____> bug 668764
[21:17] <james_w> yeah
[21:18] <poolie> ah, that's always bugged me too
[21:18] <jelmer____> apparently Pitti uploaded to maverick-proposed
[21:18] <barry> ah, cool
[21:19] <barry> thanks
[21:20] <barry> so, dch:
[21:20] <barry> * series always defaults to maverick instead of natty
[21:20] <barry> * 1build1 -> 1ubuntu1
[21:20] <james_w> I think there's a package that we can now use to answer these sorts of questions
[21:20] <james_w> (which is the current target, what's available)
[21:20] <barry> * formatting of LP: #XYZ is finicky
[21:21] <barry> james_w: sorry, was that in response to my second issue?
[21:21] <james_w> both really
[21:21] <james_w> bzr-builddeb could use it so that I don't have to remember to add the new codename
[21:21] <james_w> dch could use it so that it can know where to target by default
[21:21] <james_w> (the maverick/natty issue)
[21:22] <barry> gotcha
[21:23] <barry> i did file bug 690230 on the XbuildY issue
[21:23] <barry> james_w: do you think there are reasonable bugs i can file lurking in the second issue?
[21:24] <james_w> barry, yes
[21:24] <james_w> I think there is some disagreement on the maverick/natty one, but hey
[21:24] <james_w> I'm not sure how to make the fomatting easier, but no reason we can't try
[21:25] <barry> okay.  i'll try to formulate a couple of bug reports.  btw, should i be filing them on udd or bzr-builddeb?
[21:26] <james_w> that sort of thing can go against udd
[21:26] <barry> james_w: cool, thanks
[21:26] <james_w> devscripts is where dch lives, so that would be better, but maybe add a "udd" task?
[21:26] <barry> that's it for me, anybody else have feedback on bugs?
[21:27] <barry> [TOPIC] REVU
[21:27] <barry> ajmitch: you have the floor
[21:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  REVU
[21:28] <ajmitch> 10:09 < ajmitch> really rough list that I came up with to start a discussion at http://paste.ubuntu.com/544185/
[21:28]  * ajmitch hasn't had much time to actually write up anything here
[21:29] <ajmitch> but I was just wanting to hear peoples ideas of reviews of new packages
[21:30] <ScottK> ajmitch: For me one of the killer features of REVU that things like PPAs lack is the ability to hold multiple versions of upstream tarballs with identical names, but different contents and diff them.
[21:31] <ajmitch> right, I'm not sure how that can be done by comparing different revisions of an upstream branch & how we'd use that properly
[21:31] <ScottK> The problem we run into is poorly constructed tarballs that have to be redone.  This is not rare.
[21:31] <ajmitch> currently each upload to REVU is stored in a separate directory & diffs are generated between them
[21:32] <ajmitch> Not rare, and is often done for legal reasons
[21:32] <jelmer____> ajmitch: is the directory kept once the package is accepted, or is it destroyed (perhaps also for legal reasons?)?
[21:32] <ajmitch> jelmer____: currently kept until someone removes it through the UI
[21:36] <poolie> ... are we stuck?
[21:36] <barry> ajmitch: maybe we can talk more about REVU at the next meeting?  i haven't used it enough to have any relevant comments
[21:36] <ajmitch> barry: perhaps, if people want to
[21:36] <barry> ajmitch: okay, thank you though for that list.  i'll add it to the summary
[21:37] <barry> [TOPIC] next meeting
[21:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
[21:37] <barry> so, probably in january
[21:37] <barry> if we do the 5th, then the meeting after will be at the platform rally, which might be a good thing
[21:37] <barry> any objections to meeting next on 5-jan-2011?
[21:37] <poolie> right, and the bzr team (including jelmer) will be there
[21:38] <barry> that'll be fantastic
[21:38] <poolie> hm
[21:38] <poolie> how many working days are there between now and the 5th?
[21:38] <poolie> some
[21:38] <poolie> and some people may hack over the holidays of course
[21:38] <barry> 7 i think?
[21:39] <barry> people do tend to disappear early, but yeah, holiday hacking is a great tradition :)
[21:39] <poolie> barry, the platform sprint is the week of the 5th
[21:39] <poolie> sorry, of the 10th
[21:39] <poolie> ie the week after the 5th
[21:39] <barry> d'oh!  you're right.  so, postpone next meeting until the 12th?
[21:40] <poolie> wfm
[21:40] <barry> me2
[21:40] <barry> any objections?
[21:40] <poolie> let's keep the same time of day
[21:40] <barry> yep
[21:40] <poolie> which would be 15:00 US/Central?
[21:40] <barry> yes, but we'll be in US/Eastern, so it's 1600
[21:41] <barry> oops, no
[21:41] <barry> right 1500 US/Central
[21:41] <barry> i forgot where dallas was :)
[21:41] <barry> okay, then next meeting on the 12th, same time
[21:41] <barry> [TOPIC] AOB
[21:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[21:42] <barry> anybody have anything not on the agenda?
[21:42] <poolie> US/Somewhere-southish
[21:42] <barry> US/HopefullyWarm
[21:42] <poolie> not from me
[21:43] <barry> 5
[21:43] <barry> 4
[21:43] <barry> 3
[21:43] <james_w> nope
[21:43] <barry> 2
[21:43] <barry> 1
[21:43] <jelmer____> see y'all in Dallas :-)
[21:43] <barry> #endmeeting
[21:43] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:43.
[21:43] <poolie> :)
[21:43] <james_w> thanks everyone
[21:43] <barry> thanks everyone.  have a great holiday break
[21:43] <poolie> ahead of schedule; i like that
[21:43] <poolie> you too
[21:43] <barry> \o/
[21:43] <poolie> i'll be thinking of you on the beach :)
[21:46] <barry> poolie: you are cruel :)