| ScottL | holstein, pong | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| * ScottL has to go out with family in a minute though | 00:06 | |
| ScottL | my daughter has a singing program tonight | 00:06 |
| ScottL | abogani, i tried to test the kernel but had unclear results, the new computer i'm using is a bit wonky though | 00:06 |
| ScottL | i should be able to perform additional tests before christmas with an additional computer i should be recieving | 00:07 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, later tonight/tomorrow can we talk about the fix for the xsession gnome/unity situation? | 00:07 |
| ScottL | astraljava, are you moving towards being ready for the backporting? i have documentation almost ready | 00:08 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: Yeah ok, just ping me when you are ready. | 00:08 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, it should be in about three hours hence (perhaps more) | 00:10 |
| TheMuso | ok | 00:10 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, didirock pointed me at this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst | 03:19 |
| ScottL | and said to look at the part between lines 10 and 14 | 03:19 |
| holstein | ScottL: how did the girl do? | 03:20 |
| holstein | did she have fun? | 03:20 |
| ScottL | but also said to look at the entire package to make sure it will also work in users install xubuntu or mythbuntu | 03:20 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: Right, am in the middle of something, give me 5 minutes. | 03:20 |
| ScottL | holstein, oh, she did fine, but was really, really nervous before the show (it was at the high school with lots and lots of people) | 03:20 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, no problem, just ping me | 03:20 |
| TheMuso | ok | 03:21 |
| holstein | AH :) | 03:21 |
| holstein | i bet she rocked it like her pops does | 03:21 |
| holstein | i was going to say about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html | 03:21 |
| holstein | i was told that this is being looked at because more than JACK is being affected | 03:22 |
| holstein | more than *just JACK | 03:22 |
| holstein | not that you were losing any sleep over it ;) | 03:22 |
| * ScottL is checking the email but i think i read it today | 03:23 | |
| holstein | still early | 03:23 |
| ScottL | holstein, this has also hit the debian multimedia mailing list as well | 03:23 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: ok I will have a look at that bzr branch | 03:24 |
| holstein | ScottL: good, i was just trying to decide if i needed to make some noise somewhere | 03:26 |
| TheMuso | Ok I see what its doing, jst got to find the name for the GNOME session now. :) | 03:27 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, actually i think it is called 'GNOME' | 03:31 |
| ScottL | i found it along with a GNOME-fallback or something similar | 03:32 |
| TheMuso | Actually classic-gnome. | 03:32 |
| ScottL | oh, that's right, i was looking at the lucid install when i saw that :/ | 03:32 |
| ScottL | didirock said he changed the name | 03:32 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, but didirock was telling me to look at the entire package and see what it was doing so this could work with xubuntu, etc | 03:33 |
| TheMuso | yeah gnome-classic | 03:33 |
| TheMuso | That package has nothing to do with xubuntu/mythbuntu. | 03:33 |
| kubotu | can kopete not be better if we need to figure out the right way to do with accessibility within unity which i need coffee | 03:33 |
| ScottL | yes, i know, but he was saying this if others wanted to install xubuntu, this would work better | 03:34 |
| TheMuso | I still don't get it. | 03:34 |
| ScottL | but i don't think we need to do this because we seem to be doing things quite a bit different from what i can tell | 03:34 |
| TheMuso | That package is for netbook stuff | 03:34 |
| kubotu | works fine but.. i kinda wanna keep it vanilla.. YOu know what i meaN | 03:34 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: Exactly, we don't depend on ubuntu-desktop et al. | 03:35 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, good that you don't understand because i wasn't understanding him either | 03:35 |
| TheMuso | So in short, our default settings package simply needs to set a gnome-classic session. That should be easy. | 03:35 |
| kubotu | which she bit into, and then became sick and dizzy. The airline denies that—American's lawyer told the new metapackage that includes "all crap on the disks, things don't go right/something probably crashes. i think have found a way to set the classic GNOME session to avoid any possible problems. | 03:35 |
| TheMuso | Ok, we need to get rid of this stupid kubotu bot. | 03:35 |
| ScottL | yes :) | 03:36 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/10/%23ubuntu-desktop.txt @ 17:00 | 03:36 |
| * TheMuso looks./ | 03:36 | |
| ScottL | this is where didi mentions others installing alongside others | 03:37 |
| TheMuso | I think he is thinking about us having a separate session to everyone else, but we modify the core settings of the gnome desktop in such a way that this would be difficult. | 03:38 |
| TheMuso | ...and people haven't complained about what we have done so far, so I only think it would be worth going down this route if people get up in arms about having a separate layout for a different desktop etc. | 03:40 |
| TheMuso | ...and both xubuntu and mythbuntu use a different session launcher afaik anyway. | 03:40 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, yes, that was what i was thinking (that we modify things so differently) that we probably didn't need to worry about it or it might simply be incompatible | 03:41 |
| TheMuso | It could be done for sure, but users aren't complaining about getting back to the old desktop layout once they install ubuntustudio-desktop. | 03:41 |
| ScottL | yes, and i couldn't fathom that someone would want to install mythbuntu after installing studio ;) | 03:42 |
| ScottL | okay, i was planning on adding lines 10-14 to our code, does that seem sane? | 03:42 |
| TheMuso | Yes. | 03:43 |
| TheMuso | Oh and BTW, you have ops in here, I don't, so you should be able to kick that bot. | 03:43 |
| ScottL | okay, i'll add it to ubuntustudio-default-settings later this week | 03:43 |
| ScottL | i tried to kick it but it says i'm not channel operator, maybe i should log in as 'scott-work' :P | 03:44 |
| TheMuso | You should be able to grant ourself ops with "/msg chanserv op #ubuntustudio-devel ScottL" | 03:44 |
| TheMuso | let me check again. | 03:44 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, i'll do it tomorrow at work with scott-work | 03:45 |
| TheMuso | Oh ok, you explicitly need to use the ScottL_ nick | 03:45 |
| TheMuso | According to the access list, ScottL_ is what is listed | 03:45 |
| ScottL | yeah, i borked my logins by adding another login name :/ but i feel like it's too much trouble at this point to fix for not enough gain | 03:46 |
| TheMuso | fair enough. | 03:47 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, so, should i add the code, create a debdiff, file a bug, add the patch, subscribe you, and then ping you in IRC ? | 03:49 |
| TheMuso | SOunds good. | 03:50 |
| TheMuso | Don't forget there is a bzr branch for default-settings. | 03:50 |
| ScottL | ubuntustudio-default-settings, yes | 03:50 |
| TheMuso | ok good. | 03:53 |
| ScottL | i did play with unity a little during this week and trying to record with hydrogen, ardour, and jack | 04:17 |
| ScottL | it seemed a little alien doing so to me | 04:17 |
| ScottL | however, i can see how the desktop using unity would be good for a general public needing a streamlined and linear desktop | 04:20 |
| * holstein is still on the fence | 04:20 | |
| kubotu | no still on the right way to do it... with Provides | 04:20 |
| ScottL | if mark's goal was to differentiate ubuntu from other linux distributions and position it for mainstream acceptance, then i think he's on the right track | 04:22 |
| ScottL | look at the way netbooks exploded | 04:22 |
| ScottL | in an oversimplication, desktops were for geeky type of people, but even grandparents are buying and using netbooks | 04:23 |
| * ScottL admits those are sweeping generalities in the extreme | 04:23 | |
| holstein | im glad that ubuntu is going to be so different | 04:23 |
| holstein | personally | 04:23 |
| ScottL | it has been said before, linux greatest strength is it's options | 04:24 |
| holstein | my only concern is that windows user that is transitioning | 04:24 |
| holstein | OR osx | 04:24 |
| ScottL | but linux's greatest weakness is it's options | 04:24 |
| holstein | unity really looks like only unity | 04:24 |
| holstein | BUT | 04:24 |
| ScottL | true | 04:24 |
| holstein | should we really cater to that anyway? | 04:24 |
| holstein | i mean, i know how to install gnome | 04:24 |
| holstein | and i think the idea is great | 04:24 |
| holstein | set ubuntu apart from the rest too | 04:24 |
| ScottL | this is analogous to apple i think, make it different, but sexy, make it only work one way | 04:25 |
| holstein | im hopeful | 04:25 |
| holstein | BUT im on the fence as to if i will like unity | 04:25 |
| ScottL | in some ways i don't want ubuntu to blow up and go completely mainstream | 04:25 |
| holstein | ScottL: hehe | 04:25 |
| ScottL | i like the small community vibe | 04:25 |
| holstein | im a little excited about it | 04:25 |
| holstein | sometimes i think about what *could happen | 04:26 |
| holstein | and its exciting | 04:26 |
| ScottL | reminds me of when i used to skateboard, no one else really did it....then _everyone_ was skating | 04:26 |
| holstein | BUT i think we missed it with the netbook craze | 04:26 |
| holstein | that would have been the time | 04:26 |
| holstein | now, win7 comes on them like everything else | 04:26 |
| holstein | BUT still, im hopeful | 04:26 |
| ScottL | i still want a docky type interface that users can set up multiple (and selectable) instances for easy access to applications following workflow categories | 04:27 |
| holstein | i like that idea | 04:28 |
| ScottL | just like people set up jack for if they are recording, mixing, or mastering | 04:28 |
| holstein | wbar? | 04:28 |
| holstein | its light | 04:28 |
| holstein | looks nice too | 04:28 |
| holstein | or used to | 04:28 |
| kubotu | seems to ~work, so I only think it would be nice: http://i.imgur.com/388wL.png | 04:28 |
| holstein | might be dead now | 04:28 |
| ScottL | but depending on your current workflow, you pick the docky instance that shows you pertinent applications you have placed on it | 04:29 |
| ScottL | holstein, i don't know about wbar, but i will soon | 04:29 |
| * ScottL plugs into the matrix and Trinity downloads it in him | 04:29 | |
| holstein | hehe | 04:29 |
| ScottL | actually google is less invasive and might be quicker | 04:30 |
| ScottL | :) | 04:30 |
| kubotu | thinks that it might be spelled | 04:30 |
| ScottL | i really wish i knew what triggered kubotu | 04:30 |
| ScottL | it seems so random | 04:30 |
| ScottL | wbar looks good too | 04:30 |
| holstein | i had to search around for a .deb back in the day | 04:31 |
| ScottL | the one thing that i really, really don't like is when the dock shows the current applications running as well | 04:31 |
| holstein | i had it running on antix | 04:31 |
| holstein | yeah, wbar is configurable that way | 04:31 |
| holstein | i had it right in the middle of the screen | 04:32 |
| ScottL | i found wbar in packages.ubuntu.com | 04:32 |
| holstein | ScottL: COOL | 04:32 |
| ScottL | started in karmic though | 04:32 |
| holstein | this would have been hardy | 04:32 |
| kubotu | if mark's goal was to use the UUID as media/<foldername> though, looks much more cryptical than /media/disk | 04:32 |
| holstein | or earlier | 04:32 |
| holstein | kubotu: | 04:32 |
| holstein | ! kubotu | 04:32 |
| ScottL | the.muso showed me how to kick it but i'll do it tomorrow when i log in under my other login name | 04:33 |
| holstein | how does it get here? | 04:33 |
| ScottL | dude, no freaking idea! but i rue the day ;) | 04:33 |
| holstein | maybe someone is pointing and laughing right now ;) | 04:34 |
| ScottL | yeah, i thought about that, someone making a bot responding to queries from a different room | 04:35 |
| ScottL | just non sequitor responses | 04:35 |
| ScottL | after getting the xsessions issue resolved i'm diving into the plymouth theme update (which shouldn't take long) and then hopefully getting momentum behind the lucid backports | 04:36 |
| holstein | w00t :) | 04:36 |
| ScottL | i'm hoping to get a few people to help build them, but that's not horribly necessary | 04:36 |
| holstein | id like to | 04:37 |
| ScottL | BUT i will need a few people to help test them and document successful test in the bug reports | 04:37 |
| holstein | im trying to get in the loop a bit with falk | 04:37 |
| holstein | maybe i can build something over there | 04:37 |
| holstein | and learn how | 04:37 |
| holstein | but testing, im in | 04:37 |
| holstein | i have natty in VM | 04:38 |
| ScottL | once we get two people confirming successful tests in the bug report the official backport team should push the package into the real backports repository | 04:38 |
| holstein | and i can test lucid somewhere around here | 04:38 |
| ScottL | holstein, if you follow my backport documentation it pretty much walks you through most of it :) | 04:38 |
| holstein | building? | 04:38 |
| ScottL | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp | 04:39 |
| ScottL | aye, building the package as well | 04:39 |
| holstein | i'll give it a read | 04:39 |
| ScottL | i think most of the packages should not require any significant structural changes, just bumping the release version down to lucid | 04:39 |
| ScottL | that's one reason i prefer to steal these from maverick rather than natty | 04:39 |
| holstein | yeah | 04:40 |
| ScottL | didn't want the depends to change versions to drastically | 04:40 |
| ScottL | but this is a great primer (in my opinion) to help understand how packaging works in general | 04:40 |
| ScottL | i'm not a master packager or anything like that, but this does provide a good framework for how things are done and how they interrelate | 04:41 |
| TheMuso | Worth pointing out that the kubotu is only in this channel. | 04:48 |
| kubotu | kubotu is not an ABI break since libnepomuk links against kdeui) | 04:48 |
| * TheMuso wishes he had ops. | 04:49 | |
| kubotu | scott-work: I'm offended! | 13:17 |
| scott-work | @comment 35815 kubotu was removed because it randomly posts irrelevant messages, doesn't seem to contribute, and no one from the channel claims to have placed it here | 13:18 |
| kubotu | scott-work: you hurt my feelings | 13:19 |
| scott-work | jussi: do you know anything about kubotu? | 13:19 |
| jussi | scott-work: yeah, apachelogger made it talkitive - Im not real pleased | 14:01 |
| jussi | at least its quiet now... | 14:02 |
| scott-work | thanks jussi :) | 14:07 |
| scott-work | if ubottu and ubuntulog are here, i wonder why apachelogger put yet another bot in here? | 14:10 |
| holstein | 09:57 -!- kubotu [~rbot@ninja/bot/kubuntu-phenom/father-of-skynet/kubotu] | 14:57 |
| holstein | 09:57 -!- ircname : Ruby bot (c) Tom Gilbert and the rbot development | 14:57 |
| holstein | i thought it was a supybot | 14:57 |
| scott-work | it looks like juss managed to muzzle it :) | 14:58 |
| scott-work | holstein: to follow up from last night, even if you don't do any packaging for the backports, just testing and reporting the test in the bug report would be an incredible help | 14:59 |
| scott-work | i'm hoping to get astraljava or ricardo to help as well | 14:59 |
| holstein | making it relavantly talkative might not be too bad... | 14:59 |
| holstein | scott-work: im into testing for sure | 14:59 |
| scott-work | if it made sense when it talked wouldn't be bad :P | 14:59 |
| scott-work | sweet (re: testing) | 14:59 |
| holstein | and im already set to go for that really | 15:00 |
| holstein | scott-work: all i need is a lucid install right? | 15:00 |
| scott-work | holstein: yes | 15:00 |
| scott-work | once we see how people are involved we can further define where the backports can be installed | 15:00 |
| scott-work | if i'm the only one packaging, then perhaps i leave them in my PPA | 15:01 |
| scott-work | i'm multiple people are doing it then perhaps we use a ubuntustudio-dev PPA | 15:01 |
| holstein | yeah, you might want a separate one | 15:02 |
| holstein | just in case | 15:02 |
| scott-work | holstein: if you _do_ want to try some packaging, i'll be happy to cherry pick one (or even test build it first) to make sure there aren't any surprises in it | 15:14 |
| holstein | scott-work: im in | 15:15 |
| holstein | any help i can get to get the ball rolling | 15:15 |
| scott-work | holstein: how about rakarrack? looking at the build-depends it seems there shouldn't be any trouble...i'll even test build it tonight just to make sure | 15:38 |
| holstein | scott-work: rakarrack would be great | 17:40 |
| holstein | transmorgramofix might give me some hints too if he's not busy :) | 17:41 |
| scott-work | holstein: you shouldn't need him to help you | 19:06 |
| holstein | im RTFM | 19:07 |
| scott-work | you will be taking code directly from maverick, changing a things, and then rebuilding it | 19:07 |
| holstein | and asking about multiboot | 19:07 |
| holstein | before i bork my box ;) | 19:07 |
| scott-work | all the packaging work will have already done since it's already in ubuntu | 19:07 |
| holstein | true... | 19:08 |
| holstein | OK, im going to get crazy here | 19:19 |
| holstein | and get a triple boot going on | 19:19 |
| holstein | scott-work: i | 19:19 |
| holstein | 'll let you know if i get stuck somewhere | 19:20 |
| holstein | *with the packaging, not the triple-boot | 19:20 |
| scott-work | lol, that's what i read :) | 19:30 |
| scott-work | ardour 3.0 is supporting jack-session: http://ardour.org/a3_features_jack_session_support | 19:34 |
| holstein | scott-work: question | 20:27 |
| holstein | do i need 64bit installs? | 20:27 |
| holstein | or both? | 20:27 |
| scott-work | this should be architecture agnostic | 20:30 |
| holstein | good | 20:30 |
| scott-work | when you send your code to the PPA it will build both sets | 20:31 |
| holstein | i want to do 32bit installs on there i think | 20:31 |
| scott-work | now, having said that, it is possible that you test build with 32 bit and the 64 bit fails in the PPA because of some reason | 20:31 |
| scott-work | if you had testing in 64 bit you would have recognized the problem | 20:31 |
| scott-work | s/testing/tested | 20:32 |
| scott-work | but you will know if something fails because your PPA will tell you about it | 20:32 |
| holstein | so maybe i should do 64bit ones... | 20:32 |
| scott-work | well, the inverse could happen just a likely | 20:33 |
| scott-work | i chose 32 bit in my example because that's what i use and build ;) | 20:33 |
| holstein | i only have a gig of ram on this thing | 20:33 |
| holstein | but i think it'll be OK for what im going to do | 20:34 |
| scott-work | oh yeah, it might take some time to test build, but you can start it buidling in pbuilder and walkway away for thirty minutes or an hour and see what happens | 20:35 |
| holstein | yeah, im OK with that | 20:35 |
| scott-work | i usually try to set up a build when i know i need to do something else, like dishes or clean up the house ;) | 20:36 |
| scott-work | or even playing fallout on xbox | 20:36 |
| scott-work | holstein: i was wrong about just needing the lucid install, you actually want to have a maverick install to make it the easiest in my opinion | 20:58 |
| holstein | yeah | 20:58 |
| holstein | and i need one for falk too | 20:59 |
| holstein | and a natty one for those kernel tests... | 20:59 |
| * scott-work is running a quadruple boot at the moment (lucid, maveric, natty, and vanilla natty with unity) | 21:00 | |
| scott-work | http://ardour.org/a3_features list of the upcoming new features in ardour 3.0 | 21:00 |
| holstein | yeah, i just realized when i was reading that link you gave me that i was going to need to bite the bullet | 21:01 |
| holstein | and boot some OS's :) | 21:01 |
| scott-work | i just bought a computer from ebay and so i can have a dedicated machine for testing | 21:06 |
| holstein | nice | 21:06 |
| scott-work | i really don't like having my recording machine tied up with multiple boots | 21:06 |
| holstein | nah | 21:06 |
| holstein | i dont want to do that on my studio box | 21:06 |
| scott-work | oh, it's not a super computer, it's just another p4 | 21:06 |
| holstein | this laptop has firewire | 21:06 |
| holstein | it'tt be a good test | 21:06 |
| holstein | just not a lot of memory | 21:06 |
| holstein | this is some 64bit single core lappy | 21:07 |
| holstein | has a funky keyboard though | 21:07 |
| scott-work | i used my studio box for all testing and multiple booting currently, but i keep all studio stuff and seperate /home directory on one drive and do the other installs on a second hard drive | 21:07 |
| scott-work | now i'll seperate the testing and other installs to the other computer | 21:08 |
| scott-work | BUT, the prices i saw on ebay for dual cores looks pretty good and i will need one soon for the video editing i want to do, so after the holidays when i can save up $250 or so i'll get one | 21:08 |
| ScottL | holstein, i'm at home now if you need any assistance | 21:48 |
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