[00:05] <ScottL> holstein, pong
[00:06]  * ScottL has to go out with family in a minute though
[00:06] <ScottL> my daughter has a singing program tonight
[00:06] <ScottL> abogani, i tried to test the kernel but had unclear results, the new computer i'm using is a bit wonky though
[00:07] <ScottL> i should be able to perform additional tests before christmas with an additional computer i should be recieving
[00:07] <ScottL> TheMuso, later tonight/tomorrow can we talk about the fix for the xsession gnome/unity situation?
[00:08] <ScottL> astraljava, are you moving towards being ready for the backporting?  i have documentation almost ready
[00:08] <TheMuso> ScottL: Yeah ok, just ping me when you are ready.
[00:10] <ScottL> TheMuso, it should be in about three hours hence (perhaps more)
[00:10] <TheMuso> ok
[03:19] <ScottL> TheMuso,  didirock pointed me at this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
[03:19] <ScottL> and said to look at the part between lines 10 and 14
[03:20] <holstein> ScottL: how did the girl do?
[03:20] <holstein> did she have fun?
[03:20] <ScottL> but also said to look at the entire package to make sure it will also work in users install xubuntu or mythbuntu
[03:20] <TheMuso> ScottL: Right, am in the middle of something, give me 5 minutes.
[03:20] <ScottL> holstein, oh, she did fine, but was really, really nervous before the show (it was at the high school with lots and lots of people)
[03:20] <ScottL> TheMuso, no problem, just ping me
[03:21] <TheMuso> ok
[03:21] <holstein> AH :)
[03:21] <holstein> i bet she rocked it like her pops does 
[03:21] <holstein> i was going to say about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html
[03:22] <holstein> i was told that this is being looked at because more than JACK is being affected
[03:22] <holstein> more than *just JACK
[03:22] <holstein> not that you were losing any sleep over it ;)
[03:23]  * ScottL is checking the email but i think i read it today
[03:23] <holstein> still early
[03:23] <ScottL> holstein, this has also hit the debian multimedia mailing list as well
[03:24] <TheMuso> ScottL: ok I will have a look at that bzr branch
[03:26] <holstein> ScottL: good, i was just trying to decide if i needed to make some noise somewhere
[03:27] <TheMuso> Ok I see what its doing, jst got to find the name for the GNOME session now. :)
[03:31] <ScottL> TheMuso, actually i think it is called 'GNOME'
[03:32] <ScottL> i found it along with a GNOME-fallback or something similar
[03:32] <TheMuso> Actually classic-gnome.
[03:32] <ScottL> oh, that's right, i was looking at the lucid install when i saw that :/
[03:32] <ScottL> didirock said he changed the name
[03:33] <ScottL> TheMuso, but didirock was telling me to look at the entire package and see what it was doing so this could work with xubuntu, etc
[03:33] <TheMuso> yeah gnome-classic
[03:33] <TheMuso> That package has nothing to do with xubuntu/mythbuntu.
[03:33] <kubotu> can kopete not be better if we need to figure out the right way to do with accessibility within unity which i need coffee
[03:34] <ScottL> yes, i know, but he was saying this if others wanted to install xubuntu, this would work better
[03:34] <TheMuso> I still don't get it.
[03:34] <ScottL> but i don't think we need to do this because we seem to be doing things quite a bit different from what i can tell
[03:34] <TheMuso> That package is for netbook stuff
[03:34] <kubotu> works fine but.. i kinda wanna keep it vanilla.. YOu know what i meaN
[03:35] <TheMuso> ScottL: Exactly, we don't depend on ubuntu-desktop et al.
[03:35] <ScottL> TheMuso, good that you don't understand because i wasn't understanding him either
[03:35] <TheMuso> So in short, our default settings package simply needs to set a gnome-classic session. That should be easy.
[03:35] <kubotu> which she bit into, and then became sick and dizzy. The airline denies that—American's lawyer told the new metapackage that includes "all crap on the disks, things don't go right/something probably crashes. i think have found a way to set the classic GNOME session to avoid any possible problems.
[03:35] <TheMuso> Ok, we need to get rid of this stupid kubotu bot.
[03:36] <ScottL> yes :)
[03:36] <ScottL> TheMuso, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/10/%23ubuntu-desktop.txt @ 17:00
[03:36]  * TheMuso looks./
[03:37] <ScottL> this is where didi mentions others installing alongside others
[03:38] <TheMuso> I think he is thinking about us having a separate session to everyone else, but we modify the core settings of the gnome desktop in such a way that this would be difficult.
[03:40] <TheMuso> ...and people haven't complained about what we have done so far, so I only think it would be worth going down this route if people get up in arms about having a separate layout for a different desktop etc.
[03:40] <TheMuso> ...and both xubuntu and mythbuntu use a different session launcher afaik anyway.
[03:41] <ScottL> TheMuso, yes, that was what i was thinking (that we modify things so differently) that we probably didn't need to worry about it or it might simply be incompatible
[03:41] <TheMuso> It could be done for sure, but users aren't complaining about getting back to the old desktop layout once they install ubuntustudio-desktop.
[03:42] <ScottL> yes, and i couldn't fathom that someone would want to install mythbuntu after installing studio ;)
[03:42] <ScottL> okay, i was planning on adding lines 10-14 to our code, does that seem sane?
[03:43] <TheMuso> Yes.
[03:43] <TheMuso> Oh and BTW, you have ops in here, I don't, so you should be able to kick that bot.
[03:43] <ScottL> okay, i'll add it to ubuntustudio-default-settings later this week
[03:44] <ScottL> i tried to kick it but it says i'm not channel operator, maybe i should log in as 'scott-work' :P
[03:44] <TheMuso> You should be able to grant ourself ops with "/msg chanserv op #ubuntustudio-devel ScottL"
[03:44] <TheMuso> let me check again.
[03:45] <ScottL> TheMuso, i'll do it tomorrow at work with scott-work
[03:45] <TheMuso> Oh ok, you explicitly need to use the ScottL_ nick
[03:45] <TheMuso> According to the access list, ScottL_ is what is listed
[03:46] <ScottL> yeah, i borked my logins by adding another login name :/   but i feel like it's too much trouble at this point to fix for not enough gain
[03:47] <TheMuso> fair enough.
[03:49] <ScottL> TheMuso, so, should i add the code, create a debdiff, file a bug, add the patch, subscribe you, and then ping you in IRC ?
[03:50] <TheMuso> SOunds good.
[03:50] <TheMuso> Don't forget there is a bzr branch for default-settings.
[03:50] <ScottL> ubuntustudio-default-settings, yes
[03:53] <TheMuso> ok good.
[04:17] <ScottL> i did play with unity a little during this week and trying to record with hydrogen, ardour, and jack
[04:17] <ScottL> it seemed a little alien doing so to me
[04:20] <ScottL> however, i can see how the desktop using unity would be good for a general public needing a streamlined and linear desktop
[04:20]  * holstein is still on the fence
[04:20] <kubotu> no still on the right way to do it... with Provides
[04:22] <ScottL> if mark's goal was to differentiate ubuntu from other linux distributions and position it for mainstream acceptance, then i think he's on the right track
[04:22] <ScottL> look at the way netbooks exploded
[04:23] <ScottL> in an oversimplication, desktops were for geeky type of people, but even grandparents are buying and using netbooks
[04:23]  * ScottL admits those are sweeping generalities in the extreme
[04:23] <holstein> im glad that ubuntu is going to be so different
[04:23] <holstein> personally
[04:24] <ScottL> it has been said before, linux greatest strength is it's options
[04:24] <holstein> my only concern is that windows user that is transitioning
[04:24] <holstein> OR osx
[04:24] <ScottL> but linux's greatest weakness is it's options
[04:24] <holstein> unity really looks like only unity
[04:24] <holstein> BUT
[04:24] <ScottL> true
[04:24] <holstein> should we really cater to that anyway?
[04:24] <holstein> i mean, i know how to install gnome
[04:24] <holstein> and i think the idea is great
[04:24] <holstein> set ubuntu apart from the rest too
[04:25] <ScottL> this is analogous to apple i think, make it different, but sexy, make it only work one way
[04:25] <holstein> im hopeful
[04:25] <holstein> BUT im on the fence as to if i will like unity
[04:25] <ScottL> in some ways i don't want ubuntu to blow up and go completely mainstream
[04:25] <holstein> ScottL: hehe
[04:25] <ScottL> i like the small community vibe
[04:25] <holstein> im a little excited about it
[04:26] <holstein> sometimes i think about what *could happen
[04:26] <holstein> and its exciting
[04:26] <ScottL> reminds me of when i used to skateboard, no one else really did it....then _everyone_ was skating
[04:26] <holstein> BUT i think we missed it with the netbook craze
[04:26] <holstein> that would have been the time
[04:26] <holstein> now, win7 comes on them like everything else
[04:26] <holstein> BUT still, im hopeful
[04:27] <ScottL> i still want a docky type interface that users can set up multiple (and selectable) instances for easy access to applications following workflow categories
[04:28] <holstein> i like that idea
[04:28] <ScottL> just like people set up jack for if they are recording, mixing, or mastering
[04:28] <holstein> wbar?
[04:28] <holstein> its light
[04:28] <holstein> looks nice too
[04:28] <holstein> or used to
[04:28] <kubotu> seems to ~work, so I only think it would be nice: http://i.imgur.com/388wL.png
[04:28] <holstein> might be dead now
[04:29] <ScottL> but depending on your current workflow, you pick the docky instance that shows you pertinent applications  you have placed on it
[04:29] <ScottL> holstein, i don't know about wbar, but i will soon
[04:29]  * ScottL plugs into the matrix and Trinity downloads it in him
[04:29] <holstein> hehe
[04:30] <ScottL> actually google is less invasive and might be quicker
[04:30] <ScottL> :)
[04:30] <kubotu> thinks that it might be spelled
[04:30] <ScottL> i really wish i knew what triggered kubotu
[04:30] <ScottL> it seems so random
[04:30] <ScottL> wbar looks good too
[04:31] <holstein> i had to search around for a .deb back in the day
[04:31] <ScottL> the one thing that i really, really don't like is when the dock shows the current applications running as well
[04:31] <holstein> i had it running on antix
[04:31] <holstein> yeah, wbar is configurable that way
[04:32] <holstein> i had it right in the middle of the screen 
[04:32] <ScottL> i found wbar in packages.ubuntu.com
[04:32] <holstein> ScottL: COOL
[04:32] <ScottL> started in karmic though
[04:32] <holstein> this would have been hardy
[04:32] <kubotu> if mark's goal was to use the UUID as media/<foldername> though, looks much more cryptical than /media/disk
[04:32] <holstein> or earlier
[04:32] <holstein> kubotu: 
[04:32] <holstein> ! kubotu 
[04:33] <ScottL> the.muso showed me how to kick it but i'll do it tomorrow when i log in under my other login name
[04:33] <holstein> how does it get here?
[04:33] <ScottL> dude, no freaking idea!   but i rue the day ;)
[04:34] <holstein> maybe someone is pointing and laughing right now ;)
[04:35] <ScottL> yeah, i thought about that, someone making a bot responding to queries from a different room
[04:35] <ScottL> just non sequitor responses
[04:36] <ScottL> after getting the xsessions issue resolved i'm diving into the plymouth theme update (which shouldn't take long) and then hopefully getting momentum behind the lucid backports
[04:36] <holstein> w00t :)
[04:36] <ScottL> i'm hoping to get a few people to help build them, but that's not horribly necessary
[04:37] <holstein> id like to
[04:37] <ScottL> BUT i will need a few people to help test them and document successful test in the bug reports
[04:37] <holstein> im trying to get in the loop a bit with falk
[04:37] <holstein> maybe i can build something over there
[04:37] <holstein> and learn how
[04:37] <holstein> but testing, im in
[04:38] <holstein> i have natty in VM
[04:38] <ScottL> once we get two people confirming successful tests in the bug report the official backport team should push the package into the real backports repository
[04:38] <holstein> and i can test lucid somewhere around here
[04:38] <ScottL> holstein, if you follow my backport documentation it pretty much walks you through most of it :)
[04:38] <holstein> building?
[04:39] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp
[04:39] <ScottL> aye, building the package as well
[04:39] <holstein> i'll give it a read
[04:39] <ScottL> i think most of the packages should not require any significant structural changes, just bumping the release version down to lucid
[04:39] <ScottL> that's one reason i prefer to steal these from maverick rather than natty
[04:40] <holstein> yeah
[04:40] <ScottL> didn't want the depends to change versions to drastically
[04:40] <ScottL> but this is a great primer (in my opinion) to help understand how packaging works in general
[04:41] <ScottL> i'm not a master packager or anything like that, but this does provide a good framework for how things are done and how they interrelate
[04:48] <TheMuso> Worth pointing out that the kubotu is only in this channel.
[04:48] <kubotu> kubotu is not an ABI break since libnepomuk links against kdeui)
[04:49]  * TheMuso wishes he had ops.
[13:17] <kubotu> scott-work: I'm offended!
[13:18] <scott-work> @comment 35815 kubotu was removed because it randomly posts irrelevant messages, doesn't seem to contribute, and no one from the channel claims to have placed it here
[13:19] <kubotu> scott-work: you hurt my feelings
[13:19] <scott-work> jussi: do you know anything about kubotu?
[14:01] <jussi> scott-work: yeah, apachelogger made it talkitive - Im not real pleased 
[14:02] <jussi> at least its quiet now...
[14:07] <scott-work> thanks jussi :)
[14:10] <scott-work> if ubottu and ubuntulog are here, i wonder why apachelogger put yet another bot in here?
[14:57] <holstein> 09:57 -!- kubotu [~rbot@ninja/bot/kubuntu-phenom/father-of-skynet/kubotu]
[14:57] <holstein> 09:57 -!-  ircname  : Ruby bot (c) Tom Gilbert and the rbot development
[14:57] <holstein> i thought it was a supybot
[14:58] <scott-work> it looks like juss managed to muzzle it :)
[14:59] <scott-work> holstein:  to follow up from last night, even if you don't do any packaging for the backports, just testing and reporting the test in the bug report would be an incredible help
[14:59] <scott-work> i'm hoping to get astraljava or ricardo to help as well
[14:59] <holstein> making it relavantly talkative might not be too bad...
[14:59] <holstein> scott-work: im into testing for sure
[14:59] <scott-work> if it made sense when it talked wouldn't be bad :P
[14:59] <scott-work> sweet (re: testing)
[15:00] <holstein> and im already set to go for that really
[15:00] <holstein> scott-work: all i need is a lucid install right?
[15:00] <scott-work> holstein: yes
[15:00] <scott-work> once we see how people are involved we can further define where the backports can be installed
[15:01] <scott-work> if i'm the only one packaging, then perhaps i leave them in my PPA
[15:01] <scott-work> i'm multiple people are doing it then perhaps we use a ubuntustudio-dev PPA
[15:02] <holstein> yeah, you might want a separate one
[15:02] <holstein> just in case
[15:14] <scott-work> holstein: if you _do_ want to try some packaging, i'll be happy to cherry pick one (or even test build it first) to make sure there aren't any surprises in it
[15:15] <holstein> scott-work: im in
[15:15] <holstein> any help i can get to get the ball rolling
[15:38] <scott-work> holstein: how about rakarrack?  looking at the build-depends it seems there shouldn't be any trouble...i'll even test build it tonight just to make sure
[17:40] <holstein> scott-work: rakarrack would be great
[17:41] <holstein> transmorgramofix might give me some hints too if he's not busy :)
[19:06] <scott-work> holstein: you shouldn't need him to help you
[19:07] <holstein> im RTFM
[19:07] <scott-work> you will be taking code directly from maverick, changing a things, and then rebuilding it
[19:07] <holstein> and asking about multiboot 
[19:07] <holstein> before i bork my box ;)
[19:07] <scott-work> all the packaging work will have already done since it's already in ubuntu
[19:08] <holstein> true...
[19:19] <holstein> OK, im going to get crazy here
[19:19] <holstein> and get a triple boot going on
[19:19] <holstein> scott-work: i
[19:20] <holstein> 'll let you know if i get stuck somewhere
[19:20] <holstein> *with the packaging, not the triple-boot
[19:30] <scott-work> lol, that's what i read :)
[19:34] <scott-work> ardour 3.0 is supporting jack-session:  http://ardour.org/a3_features_jack_session_support
[20:27] <holstein> scott-work: question
[20:27] <holstein> do i need 64bit installs?
[20:27] <holstein> or both?
[20:30] <scott-work> this should be architecture agnostic
[20:30] <holstein> good
[20:31] <scott-work> when you send your code to the PPA it will build both sets
[20:31] <holstein> i want to do 32bit installs on there i think
[20:31] <scott-work> now, having said that, it is possible that you test build with 32 bit and the 64 bit fails in the PPA because of some reason
[20:31] <scott-work> if you had testing in 64 bit you would have recognized the problem
[20:32] <scott-work> s/testing/tested
[20:32] <scott-work> but you will know if something fails because your PPA will tell you about it
[20:32] <holstein> so maybe i should do 64bit ones...
[20:33] <scott-work> well, the inverse could happen just a likely
[20:33] <scott-work> i chose 32 bit in my example because that's what i use and build ;)
[20:33] <holstein> i only have a gig of ram on this thing
[20:34] <holstein> but i think it'll be OK for what im going to do
[20:35] <scott-work> oh yeah, it might take some time to test build, but you can start it buidling in pbuilder and walkway away for thirty minutes or an hour and see what happens
[20:35] <holstein> yeah, im OK with that
[20:36] <scott-work> i usually try to set up a build when i know i need to do something else, like dishes or clean up the house ;)
[20:36] <scott-work> or even playing fallout on xbox
[20:58] <scott-work> holstein:  i was wrong about just needing the lucid install, you actually want to have a maverick install to make it the easiest in my opinion
[20:58] <holstein> yeah
[20:59] <holstein> and i need one for falk too
[20:59] <holstein> and a natty one for those kernel tests...
[21:00]  * scott-work is running a quadruple boot at the moment (lucid, maveric, natty, and vanilla natty with unity)
[21:00] <scott-work> http://ardour.org/a3_features   list of the upcoming new features in ardour 3.0
[21:01] <holstein> yeah, i just realized when i was reading that link you gave me that i was going to need to bite the bullet
[21:01] <holstein> and boot some OS's :)
[21:06] <scott-work> i just bought a computer from ebay and so i can have a dedicated machine for testing
[21:06] <holstein> nice
[21:06] <scott-work> i really don't like having my recording machine tied up with multiple boots
[21:06] <holstein> nah
[21:06] <holstein> i dont want to do that on my studio box
[21:06] <scott-work> oh, it's not a super computer, it's just another p4
[21:06] <holstein> this laptop has firewire
[21:06] <holstein> it'tt be a good test
[21:06] <holstein> just not a lot of memory
[21:07] <holstein> this is some 64bit single core lappy
[21:07] <holstein> has a funky keyboard though
[21:07] <scott-work> i used my studio box for all testing and multiple booting currently, but i keep all studio stuff and seperate /home directory on one drive and do the other installs on a second hard drive
[21:08] <scott-work> now i'll seperate the testing and other installs to the other computer
[21:08] <scott-work> BUT, the prices i saw on ebay for dual cores looks pretty good and i will need one soon for the video editing i want to do, so after the holidays when i can save up $250 or so i'll get one
[21:48] <ScottL> holstein, i'm at home now if you need any assistance