[00:05] holstein, pong [00:06] * ScottL has to go out with family in a minute though [00:06] my daughter has a singing program tonight [00:06] abogani, i tried to test the kernel but had unclear results, the new computer i'm using is a bit wonky though [00:07] i should be able to perform additional tests before christmas with an additional computer i should be recieving [00:07] TheMuso, later tonight/tomorrow can we talk about the fix for the xsession gnome/unity situation? [00:08] astraljava, are you moving towards being ready for the backporting? i have documentation almost ready [00:08] ScottL: Yeah ok, just ping me when you are ready. [00:10] TheMuso, it should be in about three hours hence (perhaps more) [00:10] ok [03:19] TheMuso, didirock pointed me at this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst [03:19] and said to look at the part between lines 10 and 14 [03:20] ScottL: how did the girl do? [03:20] did she have fun? [03:20] but also said to look at the entire package to make sure it will also work in users install xubuntu or mythbuntu [03:20] ScottL: Right, am in the middle of something, give me 5 minutes. [03:20] holstein, oh, she did fine, but was really, really nervous before the show (it was at the high school with lots and lots of people) [03:20] TheMuso, no problem, just ping me [03:21] ok [03:21] AH :) [03:21] i bet she rocked it like her pops does [03:21] i was going to say about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html [03:22] i was told that this is being looked at because more than JACK is being affected [03:22] more than *just JACK [03:22] not that you were losing any sleep over it ;) [03:23] * ScottL is checking the email but i think i read it today [03:23] still early [03:23] holstein, this has also hit the debian multimedia mailing list as well [03:24] ScottL: ok I will have a look at that bzr branch [03:26] ScottL: good, i was just trying to decide if i needed to make some noise somewhere [03:27] Ok I see what its doing, jst got to find the name for the GNOME session now. :) [03:31] TheMuso, actually i think it is called 'GNOME' [03:32] i found it along with a GNOME-fallback or something similar [03:32] Actually classic-gnome. [03:32] oh, that's right, i was looking at the lucid install when i saw that :/ [03:32] didirock said he changed the name [03:33] TheMuso, but didirock was telling me to look at the entire package and see what it was doing so this could work with xubuntu, etc [03:33] yeah gnome-classic [03:33] That package has nothing to do with xubuntu/mythbuntu. [03:33] can kopete not be better if we need to figure out the right way to do with accessibility within unity which i need coffee [03:34] yes, i know, but he was saying this if others wanted to install xubuntu, this would work better [03:34] I still don't get it. [03:34] but i don't think we need to do this because we seem to be doing things quite a bit different from what i can tell [03:34] That package is for netbook stuff [03:34] works fine but.. i kinda wanna keep it vanilla.. YOu know what i meaN [03:35] ScottL: Exactly, we don't depend on ubuntu-desktop et al. [03:35] TheMuso, good that you don't understand because i wasn't understanding him either [03:35] So in short, our default settings package simply needs to set a gnome-classic session. That should be easy. [03:35] which she bit into, and then became sick and dizzy. The airline denies that—American's lawyer told the new metapackage that includes "all crap on the disks, things don't go right/something probably crashes. i think have found a way to set the classic GNOME session to avoid any possible problems. [03:35] Ok, we need to get rid of this stupid kubotu bot. [03:36] yes :) [03:36] TheMuso, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/10/%23ubuntu-desktop.txt @ 17:00 [03:36] * TheMuso looks./ [03:37] this is where didi mentions others installing alongside others [03:38] I think he is thinking about us having a separate session to everyone else, but we modify the core settings of the gnome desktop in such a way that this would be difficult. [03:40] ...and people haven't complained about what we have done so far, so I only think it would be worth going down this route if people get up in arms about having a separate layout for a different desktop etc. [03:40] ...and both xubuntu and mythbuntu use a different session launcher afaik anyway. [03:41] TheMuso, yes, that was what i was thinking (that we modify things so differently) that we probably didn't need to worry about it or it might simply be incompatible [03:41] It could be done for sure, but users aren't complaining about getting back to the old desktop layout once they install ubuntustudio-desktop. [03:42] yes, and i couldn't fathom that someone would want to install mythbuntu after installing studio ;) [03:42] okay, i was planning on adding lines 10-14 to our code, does that seem sane? [03:43] Yes. [03:43] Oh and BTW, you have ops in here, I don't, so you should be able to kick that bot. [03:43] okay, i'll add it to ubuntustudio-default-settings later this week [03:44] i tried to kick it but it says i'm not channel operator, maybe i should log in as 'scott-work' :P [03:44] You should be able to grant ourself ops with "/msg chanserv op #ubuntustudio-devel ScottL" [03:44] let me check again. [03:45] TheMuso, i'll do it tomorrow at work with scott-work [03:45] Oh ok, you explicitly need to use the ScottL_ nick [03:45] According to the access list, ScottL_ is what is listed [03:46] yeah, i borked my logins by adding another login name :/ but i feel like it's too much trouble at this point to fix for not enough gain [03:47] fair enough. [03:49] TheMuso, so, should i add the code, create a debdiff, file a bug, add the patch, subscribe you, and then ping you in IRC ? [03:50] SOunds good. [03:50] Don't forget there is a bzr branch for default-settings. [03:50] ubuntustudio-default-settings, yes [03:53] ok good. [04:17] i did play with unity a little during this week and trying to record with hydrogen, ardour, and jack [04:17] it seemed a little alien doing so to me [04:20] however, i can see how the desktop using unity would be good for a general public needing a streamlined and linear desktop [04:20] * holstein is still on the fence [04:20] no still on the right way to do it... with Provides [04:22] if mark's goal was to differentiate ubuntu from other linux distributions and position it for mainstream acceptance, then i think he's on the right track [04:22] look at the way netbooks exploded [04:23] in an oversimplication, desktops were for geeky type of people, but even grandparents are buying and using netbooks [04:23] * ScottL admits those are sweeping generalities in the extreme [04:23] im glad that ubuntu is going to be so different [04:23] personally [04:24] it has been said before, linux greatest strength is it's options [04:24] my only concern is that windows user that is transitioning [04:24] OR osx [04:24] but linux's greatest weakness is it's options [04:24] unity really looks like only unity [04:24] BUT [04:24] true [04:24] should we really cater to that anyway? [04:24] i mean, i know how to install gnome [04:24] and i think the idea is great [04:24] set ubuntu apart from the rest too [04:25] this is analogous to apple i think, make it different, but sexy, make it only work one way [04:25] im hopeful [04:25] BUT im on the fence as to if i will like unity [04:25] in some ways i don't want ubuntu to blow up and go completely mainstream [04:25] ScottL: hehe [04:25] i like the small community vibe [04:25] im a little excited about it [04:26] sometimes i think about what *could happen [04:26] and its exciting [04:26] reminds me of when i used to skateboard, no one else really did it....then _everyone_ was skating [04:26] BUT i think we missed it with the netbook craze [04:26] that would have been the time [04:26] now, win7 comes on them like everything else [04:26] BUT still, im hopeful [04:27] i still want a docky type interface that users can set up multiple (and selectable) instances for easy access to applications following workflow categories [04:28] i like that idea [04:28] just like people set up jack for if they are recording, mixing, or mastering [04:28] wbar? [04:28] its light [04:28] looks nice too [04:28] or used to [04:28] seems to ~work, so I only think it would be nice: http://i.imgur.com/388wL.png [04:28] might be dead now [04:29] but depending on your current workflow, you pick the docky instance that shows you pertinent applications you have placed on it [04:29] holstein, i don't know about wbar, but i will soon [04:29] * ScottL plugs into the matrix and Trinity downloads it in him [04:29] hehe [04:30] actually google is less invasive and might be quicker [04:30] :) [04:30] thinks that it might be spelled [04:30] i really wish i knew what triggered kubotu [04:30] it seems so random [04:30] wbar looks good too [04:31] i had to search around for a .deb back in the day [04:31] the one thing that i really, really don't like is when the dock shows the current applications running as well [04:31] i had it running on antix [04:31] yeah, wbar is configurable that way [04:32] i had it right in the middle of the screen [04:32] i found wbar in packages.ubuntu.com [04:32] ScottL: COOL [04:32] started in karmic though [04:32] this would have been hardy [04:32] if mark's goal was to use the UUID as media/ though, looks much more cryptical than /media/disk [04:32] or earlier [04:32] kubotu: [04:32] ! kubotu [04:33] the.muso showed me how to kick it but i'll do it tomorrow when i log in under my other login name [04:33] how does it get here? [04:33] dude, no freaking idea! but i rue the day ;) [04:34] maybe someone is pointing and laughing right now ;) [04:35] yeah, i thought about that, someone making a bot responding to queries from a different room [04:35] just non sequitor responses [04:36] after getting the xsessions issue resolved i'm diving into the plymouth theme update (which shouldn't take long) and then hopefully getting momentum behind the lucid backports [04:36] w00t :) [04:36] i'm hoping to get a few people to help build them, but that's not horribly necessary [04:37] id like to [04:37] BUT i will need a few people to help test them and document successful test in the bug reports [04:37] im trying to get in the loop a bit with falk [04:37] maybe i can build something over there [04:37] and learn how [04:37] but testing, im in [04:38] i have natty in VM [04:38] once we get two people confirming successful tests in the bug report the official backport team should push the package into the real backports repository [04:38] and i can test lucid somewhere around here [04:38] holstein, if you follow my backport documentation it pretty much walks you through most of it :) [04:38] building? [04:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp [04:39] aye, building the package as well [04:39] i'll give it a read [04:39] i think most of the packages should not require any significant structural changes, just bumping the release version down to lucid [04:39] that's one reason i prefer to steal these from maverick rather than natty [04:40] yeah [04:40] didn't want the depends to change versions to drastically [04:40] but this is a great primer (in my opinion) to help understand how packaging works in general [04:41] i'm not a master packager or anything like that, but this does provide a good framework for how things are done and how they interrelate [04:48] Worth pointing out that the kubotu is only in this channel. [04:48] kubotu is not an ABI break since libnepomuk links against kdeui) [04:49] * TheMuso wishes he had ops. [13:17] scott-work: I'm offended! [13:18] @comment 35815 kubotu was removed because it randomly posts irrelevant messages, doesn't seem to contribute, and no one from the channel claims to have placed it here [13:19] scott-work: you hurt my feelings [13:19] jussi: do you know anything about kubotu? [14:01] scott-work: yeah, apachelogger made it talkitive - Im not real pleased [14:02] at least its quiet now... [14:07] thanks jussi :) [14:10] if ubottu and ubuntulog are here, i wonder why apachelogger put yet another bot in here? [14:57] 09:57 -!- kubotu [~rbot@ninja/bot/kubuntu-phenom/father-of-skynet/kubotu] [14:57] 09:57 -!- ircname : Ruby bot (c) Tom Gilbert and the rbot development [14:57] i thought it was a supybot [14:58] it looks like juss managed to muzzle it :) [14:59] holstein: to follow up from last night, even if you don't do any packaging for the backports, just testing and reporting the test in the bug report would be an incredible help [14:59] i'm hoping to get astraljava or ricardo to help as well [14:59] making it relavantly talkative might not be too bad... [14:59] scott-work: im into testing for sure [14:59] if it made sense when it talked wouldn't be bad :P [14:59] sweet (re: testing) [15:00] and im already set to go for that really [15:00] scott-work: all i need is a lucid install right? [15:00] holstein: yes [15:00] once we see how people are involved we can further define where the backports can be installed [15:01] if i'm the only one packaging, then perhaps i leave them in my PPA [15:01] i'm multiple people are doing it then perhaps we use a ubuntustudio-dev PPA [15:02] yeah, you might want a separate one [15:02] just in case [15:14] holstein: if you _do_ want to try some packaging, i'll be happy to cherry pick one (or even test build it first) to make sure there aren't any surprises in it [15:15] scott-work: im in [15:15] any help i can get to get the ball rolling [15:38] holstein: how about rakarrack? looking at the build-depends it seems there shouldn't be any trouble...i'll even test build it tonight just to make sure [17:40] scott-work: rakarrack would be great [17:41] transmorgramofix might give me some hints too if he's not busy :) [19:06] holstein: you shouldn't need him to help you [19:07] im RTFM [19:07] you will be taking code directly from maverick, changing a things, and then rebuilding it [19:07] and asking about multiboot [19:07] before i bork my box ;) [19:07] all the packaging work will have already done since it's already in ubuntu [19:08] true... [19:19] OK, im going to get crazy here [19:19] and get a triple boot going on [19:19] scott-work: i [19:20] 'll let you know if i get stuck somewhere [19:20] *with the packaging, not the triple-boot [19:30] lol, that's what i read :) [19:34] ardour 3.0 is supporting jack-session: http://ardour.org/a3_features_jack_session_support [20:27] scott-work: question [20:27] do i need 64bit installs? [20:27] or both? [20:30] this should be architecture agnostic [20:30] good [20:31] when you send your code to the PPA it will build both sets [20:31] i want to do 32bit installs on there i think [20:31] now, having said that, it is possible that you test build with 32 bit and the 64 bit fails in the PPA because of some reason [20:31] if you had testing in 64 bit you would have recognized the problem [20:32] s/testing/tested [20:32] but you will know if something fails because your PPA will tell you about it [20:32] so maybe i should do 64bit ones... [20:33] well, the inverse could happen just a likely [20:33] i chose 32 bit in my example because that's what i use and build ;) [20:33] i only have a gig of ram on this thing [20:34] but i think it'll be OK for what im going to do [20:35] oh yeah, it might take some time to test build, but you can start it buidling in pbuilder and walkway away for thirty minutes or an hour and see what happens [20:35] yeah, im OK with that [20:36] i usually try to set up a build when i know i need to do something else, like dishes or clean up the house ;) [20:36] or even playing fallout on xbox [20:58] holstein: i was wrong about just needing the lucid install, you actually want to have a maverick install to make it the easiest in my opinion [20:58] yeah [20:59] and i need one for falk too [20:59] and a natty one for those kernel tests... [21:00] * scott-work is running a quadruple boot at the moment (lucid, maveric, natty, and vanilla natty with unity) [21:00] http://ardour.org/a3_features list of the upcoming new features in ardour 3.0 [21:01] yeah, i just realized when i was reading that link you gave me that i was going to need to bite the bullet [21:01] and boot some OS's :) [21:06] i just bought a computer from ebay and so i can have a dedicated machine for testing [21:06] nice [21:06] i really don't like having my recording machine tied up with multiple boots [21:06] nah [21:06] i dont want to do that on my studio box [21:06] oh, it's not a super computer, it's just another p4 [21:06] this laptop has firewire [21:06] it'tt be a good test [21:06] just not a lot of memory [21:07] this is some 64bit single core lappy [21:07] has a funky keyboard though [21:07] i used my studio box for all testing and multiple booting currently, but i keep all studio stuff and seperate /home directory on one drive and do the other installs on a second hard drive [21:08] now i'll seperate the testing and other installs to the other computer [21:08] BUT, the prices i saw on ebay for dual cores looks pretty good and i will need one soon for the video editing i want to do, so after the holidays when i can save up $250 or so i'll get one [21:48] holstein, i'm at home now if you need any assistance