[12:51] <thorwil> hmm, are there 'unsubscribe' addresses for ubuntu lists?
[17:11] <vish> thorwil: why not make the illustrative submission on art-owl?  it hasnt started yet, and if doctormo is OK, we could do it this cycle..
[17:16] <ivanka> vish: good idea
[17:17] <ivanka> the photographic wallpaper competition runs nicely
[17:17] <vish> ivanka: hey, thanks.. and pls make sure illustrative submissions are highlighted this year.. (or we'll have john crying ;p)
[17:17] <ivanka> maybe we could agree in advance that whatever space there is on the CD we choose 3 illustrative wallpapers and the rest are photos
[17:17] <vish> yup..
[17:18] <ivanka> k - follow up with iainfarrell
[17:18] <ivanka> how are you vish? as busy as last cycle?
[17:19] <vish> ivanka: hope i dont get as busy again this cycle... :)  forcing myself to sleep at times ;)
[17:19] <vish> regular*
[17:19] <ivanka> vish: good! sleep is good, my doctor told me ;-)
[17:20] <vish> ;)
[17:20] <vish> ivanka: we could move the photo submissions also to art-owl, (since people are complaining that the flickr pool is too large) , but not sure what the art-owl limit is..
[17:21] <vish> doctormo: ^ any idea how much it can take?
[17:22] <vish> and we do have the canonical sysadmin ready to allot us server space for the art.u.c site.. so that might help later.
[17:23] <ivanka> vish: what about love.ubuntu.com?
[17:23] <vish> oooh! even better.. :)
[17:24] <ivanka> vish - that way we avoid it being about specific skills and more about giving 'design love' to ubuntu projects?
[17:25] <thorwil> can we have pink instead of orange, then? :)
[17:26] <vish> ivanka: as a bonus we might get more google hits with 'love' in the url.. ;)
[17:26] <ivanka> thorwil: pink and butterflies :-)
[17:26] <ivanka> vish: heh
[17:27] <ivanka> surely we can come up with something less 'art' OR 'design' and more about creative endevours
[17:27] <vish> why not just "creativity.ubuntu.com" ?
[17:28] <ivanka> becreative.ubuntu.com?
[17:30] <vish> it maybe just me, but anything with "creative" seems like a collaboration with www.creative.com/
[17:33] <thorwil> vish: don't let them own words! bloody capitalism :)
[17:33] <vish> :)
[17:37] <ivanka> hi kwwii, are you around?
[17:38] <ivanka> thorwil: hehehe
[17:38] <ivanka> vish, thorwil: how about benice.ubuntu.com? hahaha
[17:39] <vish>  innovation.ubuntu.com
[17:39] <vish> or ingenuity  .n.. there is fecundity / fertility.. but when we shorten them it doenst sound nice,,
[17:39] <thorwil> some say creative endeavors are a replacement for giving birth, so how about pregnancy.ubuntu.com? 0.o
[17:41] <darkmatter> epidural.ubuntu.com same connotation but less painful
[17:44] <woutervddn> I only read the last two sentences and what crossed my mind was: WTF? o_O
[17:45] <vish> woutervddn: exactly the reaction you should get, when you open your mind to the wonderful world of design.. ;)
[17:45] <woutervddn> xD
[17:47]  * thorwil changes coordinates in order to consume food
[17:54] <doctormo> vish: owl should be able to take medium load
[17:55] <doctormo> ivanka: I beat you to love http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/poster/reasons-love-ubuntu
[18:00] <ivanka> doctormo: got any other ideas?
[18:01] <doctormo> ivanka: maybe light.ubuntu.com >?
[18:02] <ivanka> doctormo: I quite like that
[18:03]  * ivanka tries to channel all the negatives so she can be prepared for backlash
[18:29] <thorwil> everything is white here. or would be, if there was enough light
[18:30] <vish> hahs, we could go for "surreal.u.c" ;p
[18:32] <darkmatter> the white is a lie
[18:32] <vish> hmm.. dream.ubuntu.com
[18:33] <darkmatter> epidural.ubuntu.com "we make your ubuntu less painful"
[18:33] <thorwil> vish: nah, that's too much that which does not happen
[18:33] <vish> :p
[18:33] <thorwil> darkmatter: antimasochistsenjoyment.ubuntu.com?
[18:34] <darkmatter> ;D
[18:45] <troy_s> Wtf
[18:46] <woutervddn> exactly what I said..
[18:46] <thorwil> troy_s: now you like woutervddn earlier
[18:46] <troy_s> Name decisions? bacon.ubuntu.com because everyone likes bacon.
[18:47] <troy_s> It is pretty hard to understand so I feel woutervddn 's pain.
[18:47] <woutervddn> troy_s: vegans hate bacon -_-
[18:48] <troy_s> woutervddn: You are talking to the wrong fellow for that. ;)
[18:58] <troy_s> vish thorwil - How goes stuff?
[18:58] <vish> lol! finally someone was able to make troy_s go wtf!! \o/
[18:59] <thorwil> troy_s: today i used map() instead of a for-loop and now nothing can put me down!
[18:59] <troy_s> vish: Not difficult.
[18:59] <woutervddn> lol @ vish
[18:59] <troy_s> thorwil: Geeky scripty
[18:59] <vish> troy_s: coming up with a name for the new art/design site
[19:00] <troy_s> vish: Oh gosh.
[19:00] <vish> " something less 'art' OR 'design' and more about creative endevours"
[19:00] <vish> we could just do the obvious and name it troy.u.c but it was too obvious ;p
[19:00] <darkmatter> ipickmynose.ubuntu.com screams of creativity
[19:00] <troy_s> vish: Yeah right up there with donkey.u.c.
[19:00] <vish> lamo!!!
[19:01] <vish> lmao was for darkmatter … i really could not stop myself from laughigg
[19:01] <woutervddn> flow.u.c
[19:01] <vish> troy_s: well, at some point you gotta stop being too modest.. it doesnt suit you ;)
[19:01] <troy_s> vish: Judging from all of that fantastic creativity on the mailing list it looks needed.
[19:02] <woutervddn> ugh.. tomorrow exam of economics.. =( I know sh*t about it..
[19:02] <troy_s> vish: Or is this more of the wonderful "Slap it up on a wall and some faceless person will pick the winners."
[19:02] <vish> troy_s: well.. i think we might have had our first "shone(ing)" ;)  it was more of a tag team ( thorwil and moi )
[19:03] <vish> we might have repelled john.. ;)
[19:03] <troy_s> vish: I suspect there are better things for time.
[19:04] <troy_s> vish: I looked at that list and it looked like "v t v t j j j" with a token UNSUBSCRIBE ME jammed in there.
[19:05] <vish> :p
[19:05] <troy_s> vish: I would wonder how to coax thoughts out of the other 1000 subscribers.
[19:05] <thorwil> troy_s: we will rename "artwork team" to "discussion duo", soon
[19:05] <vish> lol!!!
[19:06] <troy_s> vish: Or at least see if any of them have any art / design interest or commitment.
[19:06] <troy_s> Likely just a gmail filter gathering dust.
[19:06] <troy_s> vish: Who is the admin? Still kwwii?
[19:07] <vish> troy_s: i did try to bring up the topic of discussing more art/design on the list.. the discussion there is a tie now 2 in favor and 2 against.. and thorwil doesnt (yet) want to break the tie ;p
[19:07] <vish> troy_s: yea.. kwwii is the admin, but he is having too much fun  ;)
[19:08] <troy_s> vish: Seriously?
[19:08] <troy_s> vish: Let me get this right
[19:08] <thorwil> vish: i'm not even aware of that =0.o
[19:09] <vish> thorwil: thats why i kept poking you.. i said lets do it and then cephrn said yes.. john and leogg said no..
[19:09] <troy_s> vish: You asked on an art / design / creativity list if there should be a more creative approach to discuss more about art / design and two people suggested not?
[19:09] <darkmatter> moar topics! that always helps in an ecosystem built on duct tape and crazy glue ;)
[19:09] <vish> troy_s: yea.. they said it was bringing in bureaucracy! :/
[19:09] <coz_> o0
[19:09] <troy_s> vish: Whoever said no should be banished from the list.
[19:10] <woutervddn> lol +1 at troy.. :p
[19:10] <thorwil> vish: not that again. don't do a john
[19:10] <vish> troy_s: we might have banished 1 (john)..
[19:10] <troy_s> vish: Not qualified. Not competent. Should not be tolerated.
[19:10] <thorwil> vish: i pointed out several times the issue was your "mandatory" mail to the list for every submission
[19:11] <woutervddn> lol the "i want to stop this mail" is kind of funny :p
[19:11] <troy_s> woutervddn: Which is that?
[19:11] <vish> thorwil: well, if you dont say mandatory, no one will discuss.. like check out leogg, he said he dint have time to write a mail to the team.. but why did he announce his submissions?  because he doesnt want to get left out..
[19:11] <woutervddn> Please...
[19:11] <woutervddn> i want to stop this ubuntu mail..
[19:11] <woutervddn> haw can i stop this??
[19:11] <woutervddn> i have 7262 messages and 7000 is from ubuntu...
[19:11] <woutervddn> plzzz help me to stop this :)
[19:11] <woutervddn> and sorry for my english.. :)
[19:11] <vish> thorwil: but even recommended is fine
[19:11] <woutervddn> it stand between the mudfight :p
[19:12] <woutervddn> might be an idea for a wallpaper: a war between two people and another one standing in the middle asking to get out.. xD
[19:12] <troy_s> woutervddn: Ah the token UNSUBSCRIBE ME mails.
[19:13] <vish> woutervddn: yea.. that we get every month in every active mailing list..
[19:13] <thorwil> vish: yeah, leogg mailed a list of his pieces, i commented, no one else did, no further reply
[19:13] <thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/mailing-lists
[19:14] <vish> thorwil: exactly. that's just human nature, if you say recommended , everyone gets lazy.. but if it is mandatory.. then they add the effort.. but as i said, "recommended" is a good temporary solution..
[19:15] <troy_s> thorwil: You forgot "And use an email system designed for contemporary email that provides filters."
[19:15] <troy_s> thorwil: And to be fair... the vast bulk of people don't have a clue about what a mailing list is.
[19:15] <darkmatter> http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2010/238/d/4/Coat_of_Arms_by_humon.jpg
[19:16] <troy_s> thorwil: So in terms of sensitivity to potential audiences, the nerd optics fall short.
[19:17] <thorwil> troy_s: not quite sure what you are saying there. i'm quite aware that knowing what a mailing lists is already makes you an "insider", kinda
[19:18] <troy_s> thorwil: The unsubscribe issue is symptomatic perhaps
[19:19] <troy_s> thorwil: Completely agree. Not "kinda"
[19:19] <troy_s> thorwil: Is there a checklist on the wiki?
[19:19] <thorwil> troy_s: thing is, i think it is net-harmful to get people on lists that can't figure out how to unsubscribe. at least if the lists cover technical matters
[19:19] <troy_s> thorwil: That explains what those various uber-nerd techniques do?
[19:21] <troy_s> thorwil: I can easily see where people hit a wall with mailing lists. They are almost exclusive to nerdville. Even intra company emails are generally cc.
[19:22] <thorwil> troy_s: all i can find, and even that only with a direct search: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MailingLists
[19:22] <thorwil> first link broken right there
[19:22] <troy_s> Lol
[19:24] <troy_s> thorwil: So as a less committed individual, mailing lists might not be optimal. The sad part is that there is a disparity between the uber-nerd and their mailing lists and the typical-casual that might gravitate to a forum. The two can't reconcile.
[19:24] <thorwil> troy_s: lists and forums both suck in their own way
[19:25] <troy_s> thorwil: Sure but they are language
[19:25] <troy_s> thorwil: I wouldn't be worried about perfect or even close.
[19:26] <woutervddn> troy_s: true about the don't reconcile..
[19:27] <troy_s> thorwil: I can only speculate, but I would gamble that most North American netizens understand the language of forums better than the language of mailing lists.
[19:27] <woutervddn> I hate to say this but imo troy's right again..
[19:28] <woutervddn> the only way to introduce a more forum style approche in an ML is by hashtagging and allow to only recieve messages with the right hashtag..
[19:28] <doctormo> Unless your having a chat, there is no need for forums or mailing lists.
[19:28] <woutervddn> true that..
[19:28] <troy_s> thorwil: Perhaps doubly so for art / design centric minds. Dribbble, Notcot, Juxtapoz, etc. all speak web based interaction models with auxiliary email notifications for the uber savvy.
[19:28] <woutervddn> but how would you see that doctormo?
[19:28] <thorwil> troy_s: while i've seen forums with high standards, i think they tend to attract more mouth breathers than lists ever could
[19:29] <troy_s> doctormo: Depends on goals of course...
[19:29] <woutervddn> and +1 for thorwil on that..
[19:29] <doctormo> what are the goals?
[19:30] <troy_s> thorwil: Look at Dribbble
[19:30] <troy_s> thorwil: Or Typophile
[19:30] <troy_s> thorwil: Very specific cultures there.
[19:30] <troy_s> thorwil: Which is precisely my point on cultivating a culture.
[19:30] <woutervddn> troy_s: neither of those are real forums..
[19:31] <troy_s> woutervddn: Typophile most certainly id.
[19:31] <troy_s> woutervddn: And Dribbble is interesting less as a technology platform and more of the audience it has selected and cultivated.
[19:32] <troy_s> doctormo: And I completely agree with you. What are the goals?
[19:32] <troy_s> woutervddn: Although in the case of the latter, I can't suggest the two aren't related.
[19:33] <troy_s> woutervddn: Indeed it appears the very "low tech" interaction design touched a nerve for the audience.
[19:37] <woutervddn> that approach indeed is better targeted for less technically focused people..
[19:37] <woutervddn> and it's true far from all designers have technical (or logical) skills..
[19:38] <troy_s> woutervddn: Erm. Most of the extremely talented artists I know are -ridiculously- technical, more so within their own domains.
[19:39] <thorwil> woutervddn: are you talking about nail designers?
[19:40] <woutervddn> lol no I wasn't.. but a more userfriendly approach will ultimatly also allow new people to feel comfortable being around..
[19:41] <troy_s> woutervddn: New should be a trait. Not an end. Another trait should be of greater importance.
[19:42] <coz_> is troy_s  picking people again ?
[19:42] <coz_> picking on people rather
[19:42] <coz_> damn fingers
[19:43] <darkmatter> nah. he just likes hearing the sound of his own text ;)
[19:44] <woutervddn> lol
[19:44] <coz_> :)
[19:46] <troy_s> Why yes. That's why I type it here. I generally just sit alone in a box and type into a text editor.
[19:47] <troy_s> Clearly I am disrupting a fount of creativity and unbridled passion here.
[19:47] <coz_> lol
[20:06] <troy_s> Aight out for a while. Be good all.