[01:09] <fagan> infoturtle: we got really badly spam attacked a few times so its needed
[01:09] <fagan> we had like 300 pages of spam before
[01:11] <infoturtle> fagan: oh ya?! i see its purpose, its just annoying, can't have it both ways tho
[01:11] <fagan> infoturtle: well it was just a plaster over a broken leg
[01:12] <fagan> we are changing the website soon I hear so it wont be a problem too much longer
[14:50] <hughbert> hello there...
[14:51] <hughbert> anybody around?
[14:51] <terran> mmhmm
[14:51] <terran> though no one has said anything since last night
[14:52]  * czajkowski kicks terran and runs off 
[14:53] <hughbert> ha ha
[14:53] <hughbert> any update on my new poster/logo for ubuntu-ie?
[14:54] <terran> czajkowski: I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE YOU CAN'T RUN YOU CAN'T HIDE
[14:54] <hughbert> ha ha.. do you want to know where exactly?
[14:54] <hughbert> ha ha...
[14:54] <czajkowski> terran: eh no you don't :)
[14:54] <terran> I'll just go to Castleconnell and start yelling her name
[14:55] <hughbert> your looking at me right now ar'nt you?
[14:55] <terran> czajkowski: are you back in Castleconnell now?
[14:56] <hughbert> your hiding in those bushes near the trees...
[14:56] <hughbert> on a separate note does anybody know the name of the hacking group in dublin?
[14:57] <terran> TOG?
[14:57] <hughbert> or limerick for that matter...
[14:57] <terran> MilkLabs
[14:57] <hughbert> thats it thanks....
[14:57] <hughbert> forgot... blast how could i forget milklabs for god sake...
[14:58] <czajkowski> terran: nope tomorrow night
[14:58] <davisc> czajkowski: Hopefully, anyway :-)
[14:59] <czajkowski> :(
[14:59] <czajkowski> *sniff*
[14:59] <hughbert> whats on tomorrow night?
[15:02] <ebel> hiya
[15:02] <czajkowski> ebel: ello ello
[15:12] <hughbert> ebel did you see my poster there?
[15:12] <czajkowski> davisc: much snow up your end ?
[15:12] <ebel> poster? no... remind me?
[15:12] <davisc> czajkowski: An inch maybe
[15:13] <czajkowski> not too bad
[15:14] <hughbert> hold on heres a link....
[15:16] <davisc> czajkowski: You watching the rainfail radar?
[15:16] <hughbert> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1463311
[15:17] <czajkowski> davisc: no... should I
[15:17] <davisc> czajkowski: Yes
[15:17] <davisc> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/radar/index.html
[15:17] <czajkowski> hmm
[15:18] <ebel> hughbert: looks pretty good :)
[15:18] <hughbert> thanks thought you would like it...
[15:19] <hughbert> as i said in the post i need to get it approved by ye....
[15:19] <ebel> If you want to clean it up we could put it on the wikipage/etc.?
[15:20] <czajkowski> davisc: not sure I can make sense of that for heathrow
[15:20] <hughbert> ya will do just wanted to get a wacom tablet for next week hopefully.... for christmas before they close....
[15:21] <ebel> :)
[15:21] <ebel> well keep us updated
[15:21] <hughbert> or i could just use a felt pen or marker for now... would that be alright with you?
[15:21] <ebel> we will be having an IRC meeting in the middle of january, you could mention it then?
[15:21] <hughbert> yep...
[15:22] <hughbert> ill try to have it finished...
[15:22] <hughbert> what date is it on?
[15:22] <ebel> It'll be around the middle. not announced yet
[15:22] <ebel> No rush, though
[15:23] <hughbert> grand job...
[15:23] <hughbert> it just started snowing outside...
[15:24] <fagan> yay just ordered my computer
[15:24] <fagan> and a few other bits and bobs for myself as well
[15:24] <hughbert> nice brand new?
[15:24] <fagan> yep
[15:25] <czajkowski> fagan: was that from all your donations
[15:25] <fagan> czajkowski: nope my grant my donations didnt get me very far at all
[15:25] <hughbert> not good...
[15:26] <hughbert> desktop? what kind of processor?
[15:26] <fagan> AMD X4
[15:27] <fagan> I was thinking a i7 or and X6 but the X4 was in my price range
[15:27] <hughbert> very nice..
[15:27] <fagan> *an not and
[15:27] <hughbert> i was looking for one for christmas but the funds are running low already...
[15:27] <hughbert> how much?
[15:27] <fagan> 500
[15:28] <hughbert> for the whole lot... thats not bad at all...
[15:28] <fagan> I spend 100 extra on a headset, mouse and keyboard
[15:28] <fagan> *spent
[15:28] <hughbert> grand...
[15:28] <hughbert> how much was the AMD X4 though?
[15:29] <fagan> an X4 is about 100 euro new
[15:29] <fagan> from where I was looking
[15:29] <hughbert> mmm...
[15:29] <fagan> I probably could have built a computer for cheaper but I dont really want to mess around with all the parts
[15:30] <hughbert> i have a 4 year old AMD X2 that i got for €35 still working like a charm.. ;-)
[15:31] <hughbert> even though i paid about 500 aswell...
[15:31] <fagan> Well X2s are getting a bit dated now since most models around the 500+ range have 4+ processors
[15:31] <hughbert> i know thats why i wanted a new one....
[15:32] <hughbert> you can still get AM2+ X4 for about 90 squid...
[15:32] <fagan> yeah I had a single core laptop but it burned out
[15:32] <fagan> and now im on a 1ghz 6 year old piece of crap
[15:32] <fagan> ive been trying to get money to replace it for 7 months
[15:33] <hughbert> my eee pc burnt out aswell.... spilt tea on it....
[15:33] <fagan> the fan broke in mine and started making noise
[15:33] <fagan> a year later it got too hot and burnt out
[15:33] <fagan> compiling code when I was at the shop :)
[15:34] <hughbert> not good what model was it?
[15:34] <hughbert> mine was the eee pc 900
[15:34] <fagan> well it was a compaq with a nice AMD processor
[15:34] <fagan> and nvidia gpu it wasnt even that old
[15:34] <fagan> it was like 2.5 ghz but still single core
[15:34] <hughbert> only 700MHz processor.....
[15:35] <hughbert> in my eee pc...
[15:35] <fagan> I have an ARM processor in my room that was a sample from freescale thats that speed
[15:35] <fagan> its pretty sweet
[15:35] <hughbert> overclocked it to 900Mhz... when i was playing games and stuff....
[15:36] <hughbert> nice... ARM are fantastic.....
[15:36] <fagan> wow you can play games on 900mhz
[15:36] <fagan> yeah the fact you can have a computer with no fan is just mind boggling
[15:36] <fagan> I cant wait till they start coming into desktops and stuff
[15:37] <hughbert> for def the best processor manufactures in the world....
[15:37] <fagan> well ARM are just engineers
[15:38] <fagan> they dont make the processors they sell designs
[15:38] <hughbert> did you ever see Micromen?
[15:38] <fagan> nope
[15:38] <hughbert> the BBC docudrama/comedy??...
[15:38] <fagan> still nope :)
[15:38] <hughbert> watch that... tis very good....
[15:39] <fagan> heh im going through firefly at the moment since my friends thought it was rediculus that I never watched it
[15:40] <hughbert> whats that again?
[15:40] <fagan> firefly is a 15 episode tv series and movie from the maker of buffy the vampire slayer
[15:41] <fagan> it was cancelled by fox but fans loved it
[15:41] <hughbert> not too bad (sorry ladys) but is there hot girls in it?
[15:41] <Leftmost> Don't fans usually love it?
[15:41] <Leftmost> Though I must say, I loved Firefly.
[15:41] <fagan> Leftmost: hah
[15:42] <fagan> I mean that a lot of nerds kicked up a big fuss when it got cancelled
[15:42] <Leftmost> Haha. That's true.
[15:42] <hughbert> ha ha nerds...
[15:42] <fagan> for only 15 episodes they did get some great comparisons to star trek back in the old days
[15:43] <ebel> Firefly is deadly
[15:43] <Leftmost> ebel abú.
[15:44] <ebel> I have a GNU Yacc book signed by 2 cast members of Firefly.
[15:44] <fagan> ebel: sadly I have to correct your grammer "firefly was deadly" :)
[15:44] <ebel> I went to see the premier of Serenity in Dublin.
[15:45] <fagan> did you see the gross of the film?
[15:45] <ebel> fagan: eh? I still think Firefly is deadly.....
[15:45] <fagan> it was 200,000 less than the cost of film
[15:45] <hughbert> ill have to look up that now heard good stuff about it alright.. very addictive i heard...
[15:46] <fagan> there is talk every year about bringing it back on different networks but its all talk
[15:46] <ebel> "Firefly is deadly" = "I think firefly is a deadly show" "Firefly was deadly" = "In the past I thought Firefly was deadly, but I don't think that anymore"
[15:46] <fagan> ebel: ah ok
[15:47] <ebel> Just because a TV is no longer being produced doesn't mean it is in the past.
[15:47] <ebel> Otherwise practically every book would have to be refered to as "$BOOK_NAME was deadly"
[15:48] <ebel> Since, like a TV that's not been produced, no new chapters are being added.
[15:48] <ebel> In short, fagan GRAMMERFAIL :P
[15:48] <fagan> hehe
[15:52] <fagan> other than the movie not making much money and the tv show being cancelled they actually made a lot from the dvd bundle of the entire show
[15:56] <Leftmost> Enough to convince them to make the movie.
[15:57] <fagan> yeah but the movie wasnt exactly a raging success
[15:57] <fagan> but I suppose 30 million in budget and 29,800,000 profit isnt so bad
[15:57] <fagan> since a lot was funded by fans of the show
[16:00] <fagan> the only thing that confuses me is the coyboy stuff in the show like the music and the intro
[16:00] <fagan> *cowboy
[16:00] <fagan> they are in space I dont get how that relates
[16:00] <Leftmost> It's supposed to be a space western.
[16:01] <fagan> Leftmost: em and that makes complete sense how?
[16:01] <tdr112> hughbert: does not like firefly
[16:01] <Leftmost> It makes sense to me. I'm afraid I just don't understand what you don't understand.
[16:03] <fagan> I get the crossover idea of people in the outskirts of civilisation and against the organised overly strict gov
[16:03] <fagan> but other than that :-/
[16:04] <Leftmost> Using those links, he just builds the show based on elements of a western. I really don't know what to say other than that.
[16:04] <fagan> and then the scifi elements are fine with the space bits but I have a feeling that in the end they were just going to say the whole thing was a dream of a cowboy
[16:04] <Leftmost> I don't understand how it's any more strange than Star Wars as a space fantasy.
[16:05] <fagan> Leftmost: well Star Wars didnt try to link its story with that of a period of history
[16:05] <fagan> it was a standalone adventure fiction scifi
[16:06] <ebel> it's just sorta like a western
[16:06] <Leftmost> fagan, I'm sorry, but that seems like an arbitrary distinction.
[16:07] <ebel> in the same way that lawyers and judges now look and seem to act like roman senators
[16:07] <ebel> And the likes of battlestar galactica look like current military structures
[16:07] <Leftmost> Especially when you consider how steeped in Japanese lore Star Wars truly is.
[16:08] <fagan> well in a way you can see that the entire thing could be seen as a statement that trends happen in public perception of people in power and power being overly strict
[16:08] <ebel> if they can be similar to some parts of history, then why can't firefly be similar to westerns.
[16:08] <fagan> huh japanese lore?
[16:08] <ebel> It's just the style.
[16:08] <Leftmost> fagan, if you pay attention, Star Wars is really just Kurosawa In Spaaaaaace!
[16:08] <fagan> lol
[16:09] <ebel> the "the diamond age" is like the victorian era.
[16:09]  * Leftmost hugs his copy of The Diamond Age.
[16:09] <fagan> well I just think the western element should have been left out of it and been more of a background influence
[16:09] <fagan> id say it would confuse people less
[16:10] <Leftmost> fagan, I'm serious. The plot of the first movie is almost directly copied from The Hidden Fortress, a Kurosawa film. Jedi are samurai with mind powers.
[16:10] <Leftmost> You're the first person I've met who was confused by it, to be honest.
[16:10] <fagan> Leftmost: well lucas is a smart man I presume he stole that idea fair and square
[16:10] <ebel> fagan: if anything saying "they're castle rustlers in the wild west of space" makes it much less confusing,  less explaining needed.
[16:11] <Leftmost> Oh, certainly. He doesn't even try to deny it.
[16:11] <fagan> Leftmost: if you read the reviews for firefly a few others were confused by it
[16:11] <ebel> People know what westerns are, they know cowboys are theives, that there will be little outposts on the edge strugglying to survive with sometimes hardass sherifs,.
[16:11] <fagan> I get the idea but if it were me I would have left it out
[16:11] <ebel> they know there'll probably be The Man somewhere who will chase down the cowboys.
[16:12] <Leftmost> I think that's a good part of the charm, but that's me.
[16:12] <ebel> You don't need to spend a while explaining that to the audience. They know it already, because they know it's a western
[16:12] <fagan> Leftmost: I think the drama and the funny bits could have kept that charm up just fine
[16:12] <fagan> ebel: but if it were me doing the show from the start I wouldnt market it like that
[16:13] <ebel> You only need to introduce the characters within the steryotypes (e.g. here's the alliance. "oh they must be the big government bit")
[16:13] <fagan> I think it would have been less confusing and still have the great stories without all the music and styling
[16:13] <Leftmost> fagan, I just feel it would have been a lot more dry. Less flavor.
[16:13] <Leftmost> Could use some salt.
[16:14] <fagan> salt is bad for your blood pressure :P
[16:14] <ebel> fagan: how could having to explain all the characters make it less confusing?
[16:14] <Leftmost> And yet, if you never ate salt, you'd die. :P
[16:15] <fagan> ebel: well then you can roll out their backstories in a nice way
[16:15] <fagan> and unfold the story
[16:15] <Leftmost> All your cells would go kablooie.
[16:15] <fagan> Leftmost: well its in some foods anyway
[16:15] <fagan> and there is trace amounts in places
[16:15] <Leftmost> I'm just sayin'.
[16:15] <fagan> like water
[16:16] <Leftmost> Yeah, but certainly not enough in water to keep you isotonic.
[16:16] <ebel> fagan: yes you'd have to explain all that backstory bits. and that would be confusing.
[16:16] <Leftmost> And table salt is our best delivery method for iodine here in the wesht.
[16:16] <fagan> ebel: well having a bit of stuff to bring up later is always good
[16:17] <fagan> and if you look closely at the film they didnt do so much of the cowboy stuff in that
[16:17] <fagan> its a lot more cowboy in the tv show
[16:17] <Leftmost> fagan, they certainly leave that possibility open. Hell, there's a lot of backstory we lack because they never finished the series.
[16:17] <fagan> Leftmost: well the reason why im saying is leave everything open is how buffy did it
[16:17] <fagan> buffy didnt reveal much about the characters
[16:18] <fagan> and they unfolded it gradually
[16:18] <ebel> fagan: do you find buffy confusing cause they reused vampires in california?
[16:18] <fagan> and it worked so so well
[16:18] <fagan> ebel: hehe no I dont
[16:18] <ebel> vampires are a central/eastern european thing, what are they doing in western americas?
[16:18] <Leftmost> Hee
[16:18] <fagan> well america is riddled with them
[16:19] <fagan> :P
[16:19] <ebel> why don't they leave the vampires out and unfold the story another way. it would be much less confusing.
[16:19] <fagan> hehe they did unfold the vampire thing in the film
[16:19] <ebel> just have it as more of a background influence
[16:19] <fagan> and they did handle the vampire thing in the first episode too
[16:20] <Leftmost> The film and the TV series aren't the same universe.
[16:20] <fagan> if you watched the first episode of buffy and never looked at the title of the show you wouldnt have a clue what its about till about half the episode in
[16:21] <fagan> from what I remember of that episode
[16:21] <fagan> just a normal girl and then weird stuff happens and oh yeah she kills vampires
[16:21] <fagan> then keeping it from everyone else then gilles comes in...etc
[16:22] <ebel> so essentially, you're in favour of auteurs reusing other parts of mythology/shared culture for some works, but not for firefly/western?
[16:23] <fagan> ebel: well buffy was amazing story telling, firefly in terms of its western style wasnt good in my opinion
[16:23] <fagan> the story was good
[16:23] <fagan> but it was lacking the drama and atmoshpere of buffy
[16:24] <ebel> so essentially, you're in favour of auteurs reusing other parts of mythology/shared culture if there was good drama and athmosphere? :P
[16:24] <fagan> well if they do it in a good way yes
[16:24] <Leftmost> I thought there was plenty of drama and atmosphere to Firefly. :P
[16:25] <Leftmost> It's not the same drama and atmosphere as Buffy, but that's just fine.
[16:25] <fagan> Leftmost: there was but the western music didnt really aid the drama
[16:25] <fagan> so it took a lot away
[16:26] <Leftmost> Well first, I disagree. Second, that assumes that just because it doesn't add means it subtracts.
[16:26] <fagan> I think if he didnt do the western thing and did it more dramatic like buffy and did better music I think it would have lasted longer
[16:26] <Leftmost> "more dramatic like Buffy"? I'm sorry, I really just don't understand how it wasn't dramatic
[16:27] <fagan> well if you watched the first 2 seasons of buffy it had a great balance of storyline action and character building
[16:27] <fagan> along with the subplots of keeping things secret
[16:27] <ebel> Leftmost: did you see the bit with nathian fillion in his new tv show going to a halloween party as a "space cowboy"?
[16:27] <fagan> making friends and doing her job killing vampires
[16:27] <Leftmost> Ha, no ebel, I didn't.
[16:27] <ebel> "Didn't you wear that 5 years ago?" "I like it!" :P
[16:29] <Leftmost> Which show is this?
[16:29] <fagan> Leftmost: buffy
[16:29] <ebel> Catle
[16:29] <ebel> *Castle
[16:30]  * fagan wants to watch buffy now 
[16:30] <Leftmost> fagan, no, I got the Buffy bit. And I don't at all see that Firefly is less dramatic because no one is keeping anything secret. Especially since people keep things secret.
[16:30] <ebel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q3pdj9p6yI
[16:31] <ebel> There are no secrets in Firefly/Serenity?! er what about river?
[16:31] <fagan> Leftmost: well with firefly there was the keeping the ship and crew all happy and well and the hot asian chick who got experimented on
[16:31] <ebel> Also did you notice they never say the word "Firefly" in Serenity (I think)
[16:31] <fagan> thats about the entire story of the first 15 eps
[16:32] <fagan> oh and hiding the two since they were wanted
[16:32] <ebel> asian? Summer Glau is not asian..... she's american/scots/irish/german....
[16:32] <Leftmost> Like me! :P
[16:32] <fagan> ebel: she kinda looks like she has a bit of asian in her
[16:32] <fagan> Oh and thats her name I couldnt remember
[16:33] <Leftmost> My computer is making noises which I cannot identify.
[16:33] <fagan> she has been on almost every show ive liked in the past few years
[16:33] <fagan> Leftmost: my old computer had a broken fan and that made lots of fun noises
[16:33] <ebel> whereas I don't think there were any 'secrets' in buffy.
[16:33] <Leftmost> These are clearly noises from a video or a game or something. Probably some Flash thing. But I have no idea where it's coming from.
[16:34] <ebel> The whole show is just "run around and kill vampires and monsters. Every year kill a big one"
[16:35] <fagan> ebel: then I dont think you got the main sub plot bits that were unraveled through the course of the seasons
[16:36] <ebel> there were none
[16:36] <fagan> ebel: there were lots
[16:37]  * fagan watched nearly every episode of buffy and there were lots 
[16:37] <Leftmost> fagan, I just don't get what's not dramatic about constantly being on the run from a ubiquitous government, trying to scrape by on the edge of space in a ship that barely holds together, making money as a smuggler, getting into gun fights...
[16:37] <fagan> hmmmm
[16:38] <fagan> I still think buffy had a better setup for its story
[16:38]  * fagan feels like a pro troll right now 
[16:38] <ebel> fagan: No there weren't.
[16:40] <Leftmost> Honestly, even though I liked Buffy, I thought Firefly was a more mature show (in terms of storytelling principles).
[16:40] <fagan> dont get me wrong I like firefly's story I just think without the western stuff and a bit more drama id say it would have been awesome
[16:40] <Leftmost> I think without the western stuff, it would have been boring. :P
[16:41] <Leftmost> I've seen space pirates and smugglers before.
[16:41] <Leftmost> What sets Firefly apart then?
[16:41] <fagan> its charm
[16:41] <Leftmost> I mean, sure, that's not all there is to the show.
[16:41] <fagan> the funny lines
[16:41] <fagan> and the story
[16:42] <Leftmost> I just really don't get how the western bit hurt it in any way, or how you think it needed more drama.
[16:42] <fagan> it would still have all of that without all the western stuff
[16:42] <Leftmost> A concrete example would at least let me see it from your perspective.
[16:42] <fagan> well its hard to compare against a scenario that wasnt created
[16:43] <fagan> if they did a non western version id be happy because it would do the arguing for me
[16:44] <Leftmost> I'm sorry if this seems argumentative, but you're saying that the western bit hurt it, but you can't describe how without a version that had none of that?
[16:46] <Leftmost> Part of why I like the show is that it successfully plays off of an extant genre, one which plays heavily with the antihero, pioneering and action. Take away the western bit, you take all of that away.
[16:46] <fagan> well people love the other version I just think id like it more if the western stuff wasnt there
[16:46] <fagan> I liked the overall story
[16:46] <fagan> just not the western theme
[16:47] <ebel> Your argument is "The western bit was bad", do you have an actual points? :P
[16:49] <fagan> hehe other than its distracting from a good story about summer glau
[16:51] <ebel> nom nom nom simon
[16:51]  * fagan <3 summer glau btw :)
[16:55] <Leftmost> Kaylee über alles!
[16:56] <fagan> ?
[16:57] <Leftmost> Hmm?
[17:06] <hughbert> well i bid ye a good night, its my birthday tomorrow so the family and myself are going out for a meal tonight..
[17:06] <hughbert> i see ye when i see ye good luck...
[17:06] <ebel> hughbert: happy birthday!
[17:06] <hughbert> im the ripe old age of 22 2morrow...
[17:07] <hughbert> 22 years young as they say...
[17:07] <hughbert> Thanks ebel...
[17:07] <fagan> im 22
[17:08] <fagan> welcome to the club
[17:08] <fagan> :P
[17:08] <fagan> happy birthday
[17:08] <hughbert> ha ha thanks man...
[17:08] <hughbert> better get a move on... see ya. bye....
[17:58] <terran> I totally quit that club last month
[18:00] <fagan> lol
[18:00] <fagan> im quitting that club myself in july
[18:00] <fagan> too boring
[18:01] <fagan> im hoping the 23 club is a little bit cooler
[18:01] <Leftmost> I quit a few years ago. Clearly I know what's good for me better than you guys. :P
[23:36] <jtoomey> lo all