/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/19/#ubuntu-uk.txt

exobuzzwe decided to use that forum, but keep the code/trac on sourceforge etc.. note that no money donated there goes to any devs btw - just to the community site.. an issue we need to sort out. (we dont want the money. we just want it going to a charity or something. this is a current pending issue, and hot potato or something)00:00
* exobuzz wonders how well the forum admin is doing.00:01
dwatkinsah I see00:01
exobuzzanyway. offtopic here. we shall im sure sort this out00:01
dwatkinsyeah00:01
exobuzzall code lives http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbmc4xbox/00:02
exobuzzwe refused to have it run by the admin of the xbmc4xbox site. just due to safety issue and having it centralised with no control etc00:02
exobuzzseemed the best option00:02
exobuzzdwatkins, http://www.xbmc4xbox.org/xbmc4xbox-3-0-reaches-beta2 mentions some of the new stuff00:03
bigcalmMy alarm clock works!00:06
exobuzzbigcalm, oh.. new updates ?00:06
bigcalmIt's been waking me up to the tune of UUPC every morning00:06
exobuzz:)00:06
bigcalmexobuzz: not really yet. But I found that if I point the Joggler at a web hosted site, it won't play the alarm sound if the internet connection goes down...00:07
bigcalmQuite glad that I coded it all in JS00:07
exobuzzbigcalm, jolicloud update arrived today and resized my panel! bugers. although i never orked out hw to realign the main content. contacting jolicloud devs is not easy00:07
bigcalmNow run it locally on the Joggler and it plays every morning00:07
exobuzznie!00:07
exobuzznice! sorry00:08
exobuzzso a "local website" ?00:08
bigcalmIn a way00:08
bigcalmJust pointing the browser at a local .html file00:08
bigcalmDespite my tweets about the web app, but boss was surprised and pleased with the work I'd done on it00:08
exobuzzif you want others to use it. im happy to help out etc.00:09
bigcalmLooks like he'll be getting me more jQuery work next year00:09
bigcalmThat's great, ta :)00:09
bigcalmI have it in my SVN server. Might set up trac on that server at some point00:09
exobuzzguess its a few lines install scriptwise.. useful though. actually you should probably try and get it in jolicloud itself00:10
exobuzzi mean,, it could be a good addition for them00:10
bigcalmYes00:11
bigcalmThe one alarm clock that they link to is hosted on an external server and is somewhat unuseable00:11
bigcalm(horrible sound)00:11
exobuzzmaybe get something for the work too.. amazon wish list ;-) if you do get it in, i guess ill have to look at your wish list too ;-) hehe00:11
bigcalmHaha00:11
bigcalmhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/wishlist/LXT6MFP2WUWA00:12
bigcalmDid the 3 items arrive for you yet?00:12
exobuzz49.99 109.00 107.59. you are a pricey man :D00:12
bigcalmHehe00:12
exobuzznot yet.. but then again its snowing..00:12
bigcalmLook at the last item!00:12
exobuzzholy fuck00:12
bigcalmHAHA00:12
exobuzzsorry i swore on ubuntu uk00:12
exobuzzi mean fish00:13
bigcalmI use this list with my family every year00:13
bigcalmStrangely, it's yet to be purchased00:13
hamitron:)00:13
bigcalmIt's gone up in price a lot00:13
bigcalmUsed to be around the 500 mark00:14
hamitronI need to delete unwanted stuff off my list :/ got 7 pages00:14
hamitronyou look very organised :)00:14
exobuzzactually the first gift i got (i got a dvd and what you got me,) has not arrived. and it was 2+ weeks ago. amazon eh.. and weather.. you were way generous of course and i only hope you get enough usage out of the jolicloud dist ;-)00:15
exobuzzso a keen photographer eh ?00:15
exobuzzi mean. i had no idea lenses cost that much. wow. just wow00:16
exobuzzheh00:16
bigcalmThat's a specilist lens00:17
bigcalmhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/00:17
exobuzzbigcalm, one of the reasons btw i have lots of cheap stuff on my wishlist is so that people can get me a cheap single item. your gift almost leaves me feeling guilty ;-) ill stop going on about it now. but anyway. thanks again00:17
bigcalmHehe00:18
bigcalmYou're very welcome00:18
hamitroncover for the kindle is nearly half that of a kindle :/00:18
exobuzzcover for a kindle ? http://www.popgadget.net/2009/12/smart_umbrella.php00:19
bigcalmIt's something that I use every day and not something that I can do myself reall. So I think it's good to show ones apprication00:19
exobuzz?00:19
exobuzzsorry i meant to link http://www.popgadget.net/images/AmbientUmbrella-top.jpg00:19
exobuzzbigcalm, the whole project, not specifically the jolicloud one, but the whole work for the kernel and the ubuntu distributions. probably took me a horrible amount of hours. i know i got told of for neglecting my family during it..00:20
exobuzzbad daddy00:21
bigcalmHeh00:21
exobuzzgetting jolicoud to work was about 6 hors00:21
exobuzznot whores..00:22
exobuzzhours sorry00:22
exobuzzbut i had all the stuff ready00:22
exobuzzjolicloud stored the computer id etc and i couldnt find that at first. /etc/jolidaemon or something00:22
exobuzzand other jolicloud stuff00:23
Oli``There are a lot of unheard-of makes of 8mm fisheye. I played with a Samyang once and that seemed pretty decent for the money00:23
Oli``The money being a third of a normal third party (eg Sigma) and even less than that of say Canon00:23
exobuzzbigcalm, btw.. all my joggler related stuff excluding packages on the ppa are http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/source/00:23
Oli``Not that I think Canon even do an 8mm00:24
exobuzzhttp://joggler.exotica.org.uk/source/makeimage.sh for example is used to make the images from a local folder00:24
exobuzzand kernel stuff is there etc00:24
bigcalmI haven't used make since leaving Gentoo behind for Ubuntu00:25
bigcalmI've become lazy :S00:25
exobuzzOli``, fisheye is a sort of lens? certain image type or focus/range?00:25
bigcalmType00:25
bigcalmVery wide angle00:25
exobuzzaah00:25
exobuzzlike a goldfish bowl ?00:25
exobuzzloowing out00:25
Oli``exobuzz: it's so wide angle you see 180+ degrees field of vision00:26
exobuzzlooking out00:26
exobuzzor so00:26
bigcalmhttp://www.google.co.uk/images?q=fisheye&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1350&bih=74900:26
exobuzzdoesnt that distort things badly00:26
Oli``exobuzz: sure00:26
exobuzzor can you flatten out later ?00:26
exobuzzor thats the point ?00:26
bigcalmexobuzz: You'll see that a lot of people don't bother00:26
Oli``exobuzz: But the creative aim is usually a circular image00:26
Oli``Otherwise you'd just use another lens00:27
exobuzzwhat would it be used for typically..00:27
bigcalmArty shots ;)00:27
exobuzzaah ok..00:27
Oli``http://www.sandydan.com/photo/wide/fish/index.htm00:27
exobuzzsee im out of my depth here..00:27
exobuzzheh00:27
Oli``That's a setup and a half00:28
bigcalmIf you want to get a large field of view but keeping it rectangular, I use autostich to join a lot of images together00:28
exobuzzi bought a close up lens for my cheapo a80 canon camera for £35 as it was half price and it looked like a bargain. used it twice00:28
exobuzzahem00:28
exobuzzhttp://www.sandydan.com/photo/wide/fish/adapter.jpg <- that image is almost pornographic00:28
exobuzzlove the vertical shot though00:28
Oli``Yeah they ["close up lenses"] are usually just extra glass that magnifies. Usually adds chroma distortion and eats light.00:29
hamitronthe idea is to point the camera up?00:29
exobuzzso . knowing your stuff. are these lenses worth 750 quid. i mean.. do you think they have abig market?00:30
exobuzzlike speciality stuff00:30
exobuzzmarkup00:30
exobuzznot market. sorry00:30
exobuzzi mean. these days i thought optical stuff is relatively cheap to make00:31
Oli``Still very easy to do poorly.00:31
exobuzzwonder if its a niche.. then again you can pay £800 for 2 bose speakers. and i paid £150 for my non bose speakers. and they are fine..00:31
exobuzzyou can pay £400 for a kettle lead from one audiophile company. im just questioning if lenses suffers similar stuff, or, its real value00:32
exobuzzi know nothing. just asking00:32
exobuzz:)00:32
Oli``It's usually a bit more empirical with glass. You can measure distortion, focus speed, light drop-off etc00:32
exobuzzi know i wouldnt pay £400 for a kettle lead though00:32
exobuzzi see00:33
hamitroneven if it was the last kettle lead in the world and you needed coffee?00:33
hamitron;)00:33
exobuzzhamitron, now.. what a situation :)00:33
exobuzzaa+00:33
Oli``Hob? Microwave? Lighter?00:33
exobuzzlol00:33
hamitronwe'd be boiling a kettle over candles on our comp desk00:34
Oli``I have a USB hotplate somewhere actually...00:34
exobuzzi cracked an egg on my stove once. and it cooked lovely. cept the layer of soot00:34
exobuzzintersting taste00:34
exobuzznext time i use a pan00:34
hamitronOli``: how much current it need?00:35
exobuzzOli``, i can see that frying my laptop usb power tracks before the thing works00:35
Oli``hamitron: two usb plugs. I'm not electrical - I couldn't tell you how much it was pulling.00:35
hamitronI fancy a kettle with ethernet if you can get one00:35
exobuzzif you had that camera btw.. hung around your neck http://www.sandydan.com/photo/wide/fish/adapter.jpg - i guess you must be careful it doesnt hang too low right00:35
exobuzzsorry to bring it up again00:36
exobuzzmaybe its just me00:36
hamitronpower off the mains though00:36
exobuzzits very phallic00:36
Oli``hamitron: a NAK?00:36
Oli``(network attached kettle)00:36
* hamitron shrugs00:36
hamitronyeh00:36
exobuzzhaha00:36
Oli``nice idea00:36
exobuzzits real.. we have a reference00:36
exobuzzneeds wikipedia article00:36
hamitronset it to boil, go relieve myself, then make coffee quickly00:37
exobuzzjust link to irc archives00:37
Oli``We could do with all sorts of NAAs (Network Attached Appliances)00:37
Oli``"Oh blast, I forgot to turn the tumble dryer on", reach for phone, done.00:37
exobuzzwhat about a recursive one. NAN. network atached naan. ok. im being stupid now and it doesnt work. nite00:37
exobuzz:)00:37
hamitronbugger if you have no credit :/00:37
hamitronbut honestly, a USB powered coffee mug would be most useful in this weather00:38
hamitronkeep it warm :/00:39
Oli``I'd love to learn enough electronics to do that. And network in all the lights, perhaps have a thermometer and radiator control in each room too.00:39
* hamitron would just like a radiator before he gets all fancy00:39
Oli``lol00:39
bigcalmTime for sleep I fear00:42
bigcalmTaaraa00:42
hamitron:/00:42
hamitronlaters00:42
hamitronthink I may turn on some comps to warm this room up actually00:42
JamesMRhamitron: I use computers as radiators all the time00:43
JamesMRheating's broken00:43
hamitronit works :)00:43
hamitronnot so good if you let it get too cold though00:44
hamitronI have a cheap ass motherboard that turns the speed of the fan down with cooler temps00:44
hamitronand it auto powers off when the cpu fan gets to 0 rpm :/00:44
hamitronI'd say most PSU I have vibrate at low temp too00:46
exobuzzThis channel is publicly logged at ... oh no00:52
exobuzzim sorry for everything i ever said00:53
hamitronI'll forgive you for a small fee exobuzz00:56
hamitron;/00:56
exobuzz1p ?00:57
hamitronoh noes, not money00:57
hamitronjust remember you owe me... ;)00:57
exobuzzwhat do i owe you ?01:04
exobuzz:)01:04
exobuzzi almost did some bad  char ascii art. then stopped myself.. ban material01:04
exobuzz:)01:04
exobuzz4 char01:04
hamitronwell, if we wanna put a value on it... lets call it 10 backrubs01:04
hamitron:D01:05
exobuzzi was thinking to offer an 8 an = another = another = and a o01:05
exobuzz:)01:05
exobuzz5 chars sorry. i lengthened it specially for you01:05
exobuzzi am horrified with myself now. and i shall stop talking..01:06
* hamitron is confused01:06
hamitronhaha01:06
hamitrongonna blame the cold and time, making me tired01:07
hamitronsounds better than admitting to being stupid... yeh? ;/01:07
hamitron:)01:07
exobuzz:) im unsure what is what.. i can only say that my beer is empty, i think you are doing fine .. with whatever you/we are doing. im not sure what it is01:08
exobuzz:)01:08
exobuzzwhat were we talking about ?01:09
exobuzzoh yeh. ubuntu01:09
exobuzzubuntu is nice. cept when it isnt..01:09
hamitronI've started to hate it01:10
exobuzzlike mdadm/unity, window gadget positioning/smug ubuntu devs01:10
exobuzz:)01:10
hamitronlike everything else01:10
hamitronhaha01:10
hamitronthe last 10 years of computing has really killed it for me01:10
hamitronubuntu is the best though ;/01:12
exobuzzspectrum <-> c5 <-> someother stuff <-> pc <-> ps3 <-> spectrum <-> <- you are here01:12
Nafallowoha01:12
Nafallonafallo@parakeet:~$ find .ubuntuone/Purchased\ from\ Ubuntu\ One/ -type f -print | wc -l01:12
Nafallo40101:12
Nafallo\o/01:12
hamitronthe days of the pentium 1 and 2 were my favourite01:13
hamitron:)01:13
hamitronwell, 586 as a whole01:13
Nafallohmm01:14
Nafallonafallo@parakeet:~$ ssh smurf.lan uname -m01:14
Nafalloi58601:14
Nafalloone of these? ;-)01:14
hamitronyeh01:15
hamitron:)01:15
Nafallojust installed my Cobalt with a new kernel today. all seems to work, so will put it in a data centre tomorrow if all goes well :-)01:15
hamitron:)01:16
hamitrontbh, something like an ARM machine may save my interest01:17
Nafalloeeeew01:17
Nafallojust get a mobile phone damnit :-P01:17
hamitronI hate phones01:17
Nafallothey are more like computers these days anyway :-)01:17
hamitronI need a 12" screen01:18
hamitronwell, I need a 10" screen but want 12"01:18
Nafallo"need"?01:18
hamitron;)01:18
Nafallosounds more like a netbook ;-)01:18
hamitronyeh01:18
hamitrongimme one of them, that takes a sim card01:18
hamitron:D01:18
Nafalloseems they are usually SD, not SIM ;-)01:19
hamitronand a bluetooth headset, doubt I could get away with whipping it out on the street01:19
hamitronand a bluetooth remote control pad01:19
hamitron:/01:19
hamitronbah, I hate phones anyway01:20
hamitronjust want to get back to slower PC... less need for upgrades all the time01:20
LSEactuaryjoin/ #km020101:37
Jorahi04:19
czajkowskibah07:41
AlanBellmorning07:56
AlanBellget a good nights sleep czajkowski?07:59
czajkowskinope08:02
czajkowskinot slept yet08:02
czajkowskiwas too cold08:02
AlanBelland the airport is looking firmly shut from the website http://www.heathrowairport.com/08:03
czajkowskiit is08:04
czajkowskinext flight I can get out is Tuesday at 10am08:04
AlanBellick08:04
AlanBellwhat are you planning to do now?08:05
czajkowskiI've no idea :(08:05
czajkowskiit could take 5 hrs to get back to Aldershot now08:05
czajkowskiand I have a 10am flight on Tuesday08:05
czajkowskiso I've to stay around this neck of the woods anyways08:06
czajkowskijust rand dad he's a bit pood about it, nspoken to the mothership she wont handle it well08:09
czajkowskisecurity on front door to stop people coming in08:10
AlanBellI am struggling to suggest anything08:10
czajkowskime too08:10
czajkowski*shrugs*08:10
czajkowskinothing I can do really08:10
danfishahoy hoy!08:41
danfishczajkowski: bad luck - at least the bars are open 24/7!08:43
czajkowskinope08:47
czajkowskidanfish: they close at 11 on the dot08:47
czajkowskifeckers08:47
danfishczajkowski: the ba***rds >:(08:51
czajkowskiindeed08:51
czajkowskikicking 200 people out of a pub at 11 into an already full airport was not a good idea08:52
danfishthe crazy thing is that the staff probably couldn't get home08:53
czajkowskithey've stopped staff shuttles today08:54
danfisha very poor attempt to cheer up czajkowski follows -09:03
danfishthere was a young lady named czajkowski09:03
danfishwho was stuck at an airport on her ownski09:03
danfishthe pubs were all shut09:03
danfishshe was freezing her butt09:04
danfishso she went on a tech spending spree09:04
danfish...which just goes to prove that my English teacher was right ;)09:05
czajkowskilol09:45
daubersMorning all10:00
daubersczajkowski: Trains not running very well?10:01
daubersczajkowski: National rail enquiries suggests you could get back to aldershot in 1h37, but that may not match reality!10:02
nperry only thing is daubers is getting back again10:23
daubersnperry: From aldershot?10:26
nperryjust through all of those other people that are missing flights10:27
popeymorning10:29
AlanBello/ popey10:29
daubersnperry: o/10:30
dauberspopey: That little amd athlon has virtualisation extensions too10:31
popeyhah, neat10:31
* popey wonders if czajkowski needs picking up from LHR10:31
nperryo/10:31
popeyi thought LHR were supposed to be clearing the runways overnight10:31
popeythts what their twitter sayd10:31
popey*said10:31
dauberspopey: It ditched down there again10:32
popeyoh, overnight?10:32
daubersapparently10:32
AlanBellhttp://www.heathrowairport.com/10:32
MartijnVdSWe got 20cm overnight10:33
MartijnVdSGood thing it's Sunday, or the economy would collapse again :)10:33
popeygolly10:34
popeyczajkowski: found some powere?10:34
popeymight be worth buying a 4 way extension so you can share it with others :)10:34
nperrywonder if there is any ubuntu users other then czajkowski10:36
czajkowskijust booked into a hotel10:55
czajkowskiwell made a reservation need to get there now10:55
czajkowskijust need to get passed security who are dealing with a lot of angry folks trying to get in here.10:55
czajkowskipopey: thanks for asking10:59
AlanBellczajkowski: sounds like a better plan, and I am sure you will get a flight out by Christmas10:59
AlanBelland hey, if tuesday doesn't work out you can come to the christmas party \o/11:00
czajkowskiAlanBell: don';t make me kill you :)11:01
czajkowskituesday comes and I'm still here, there is going to be an almightly killing spree11:01
daubersczajkowski: Or you could come to the party and just gt rat arsed?11:01
czajkowskiif I'm here tuesday I'll be poking Davisc for a lift to ferry11:01
czajkowskithere is that11:01
MartijnVdSooh another stack of snow is coming our way (.nl)11:01
czajkowskihmm cant check into 211:01
czajkowskiMartijnVdS: hush up about snow11:02
czajkowskiit's a pain in the ass11:02
MartijnVdSczajkowski: if it's coming our way, it's not coming your way... :)11:02
czajkowskithats what they said last night..11:03
czajkowskithen mothership sees on sky news flights taking off, checks website flights still showing as running11:03
czajkowskithere is a definate lack of getting the information out to all of the channels11:03
dwatkinsIs it still snowing there, czajkowski?11:04
* AlanBell hugs poor tired czajkowski11:04
czajkowskidwatkins: little bits here and there but nothing to actualy stop flying, issue is seemingly............. 7 inches yesterday 5 over night, added ice to the mix, planes frozen and there are 200 grounded flights here none of which can be moved11:04
czajkowskidwatkins: this is what we're being told here11:04
czajkowskilogging off11:05
czajkowskibbiab11:05
dwatkinsc ya11:05
matttffs, i hope i can get out tuesday11:13
MartijnVdSI hope I can go out this afternoon :)11:14
MartijnVdSout of the house that is11:14
matttyou guys snowed in too?11:15
MartijnVdSyeah, 10cm yesterday, 15-20 overnight11:15
MartijnVdSand more on the way11:15
nperryWhy wont Braid change my resoultion, I can't read it as its in the middle of my two screens11:15
MartijnVdSnperry: which video driver do you have? it's probably asking for a non-existing resolution11:15
MartijnVdSor it did change resolution and your video card is not scaling it up11:16
MartijnVdSor your monitor11:16
nperryNot sure :P11:16
MartijnVdSconfigure it to use the native resolution of your screen (if that's possible)11:16
MartijnVdSproblem solved \o/11:16
nperryNot to sure its possible11:17
popeyyeah, i have had games do that11:17
MartijnVdSnperry: most of those indie bundle games are configurable11:17
popeyswitch off the second screen in the nvidia settings thing first11:17
MartijnVdSWorld of Goo was \o/11:17
_HI have a hall way I just measured and if it where a square it would have two sides measuring 5580mm and the other side would be 3788mm what's the sum I need to do for the area?12:01
macoit's not a sum, it's a product12:02
dwatkinsThat's not square, _H, it's a rectangle... ;-)12:02
MartijnVdS_H: length * width = area12:03
dwatkinsbut yes, just multiply them to get the number of square mm, or multiply the number of metres to get the number of square metres12:03
_Hcalc 5580*378812:03
MartijnVdS_H: cm * cm = cm², mm * mm = mm², m * m = m² (etc. :))12:03
MartijnVdSinch * inch = sq. inch12:03
_H2113704012:03
_H21137040 mm12:03
MartijnVdSmm212:04
MartijnVdS21.1 m212:04
brobostigonafternoonings all.13:00
MartijnVdS\o brobostigonman13:02
brobostigonhey MartijnVdS :)13:02
wdhI tried installing ubuntu 10.04 to a small server (fitpc) using a thumbdrive. It will install fine, but after removing the flashdrive from the system and changing the boot-order in the BIOS to boot from the harddrive again, GRUB gives me an error 15 on booting. Any idea how to fix this?13:23
MartijnVdSthat's "file not found"13:24
MartijnVdSbecause your disks got renumbered/etc.13:25
wdhyes.. thats what google told me as well, but I cannot seem to find out why it cannot find the file13:25
MartijnVdSmake sure everything is UUID-based13:25
MartijnVdSin grub's config13:25
MartijnVdSor because the disks got renumbered and it's looking in the wrong place13:25
wdhwhere is GRUB config located these days? It used to be /boot/grub/menu.lst, but that doesnt seem to exist anymore13:26
popeyhehe i did that yesterday13:26
brobostigon!grub213:26
lubotu3GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub213:26
popeybecause I stupidly installed grub on the usb stick13:26
MartijnVdSwdh: /boot/grub/*.cnf13:26
popeyfixed by booting from usb to teh hard disk and doing "sudo grub-install /dev/sda"13:26
MartijnVdSwdh: generated from /etc/grub.d/13:27
wdhpopey, i'll try that13:28
popeyassuming /dev/sda is the first disk you want to use :)13:28
wdhit is :)13:28
MartijnVdSwdh: hoe krijg je het weer voor elkaar ;)13:29
wdh/dev/sda does not have any corresponding BIOS drive13:29
wdhguess i got some work to do in the bios again :)13:29
MartijnVdSnah, bios probably only enumerates boot drive13:30
MartijnVdSwhich is why it breaks?13:30
MartijnVdSor is it some RAID device?13:30
wdhno.. it's a 250GB laptop drive which on IDE13:30
steve__hello13:39
steve__need help please ? does anyone wanna waste 15 minutes ?13:40
brobostigonsteve__: how can we help, what is the issue/problem you are experiencing. ?13:41
steve__please the matter is ...13:41
steve__simply i have to build a script13:41
steve__a bash script13:41
steve__i have to open two gnome-terminal sessions13:42
steve__and13:42
steve__execute differents command in both terminal13:42
steve__forgive my english13:43
steve__i mean13:43
steve__i have to open a terminal13:43
steve__and give a acommand to open another one13:43
steve__and in the second one i must be able to execute13:44
steve__another command13:44
steve__that's all13:44
steve__TY13:45
steve__any soul ? :)13:46
wdhsteve__, sounds trivial to me, but i'm not very good with bash. You might have more luck in #bash13:47
steve__ok thanks anyway and happy Xmas13:48
brobostigonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux hmm, why a comparison, yes windows is a family of operating systems. however linux is only a kernel, can you really compare a kernel to a wholefamily of operating systems.13:56
brobostigonit would make more sense, to compare windows with, debian or example, a complete OS, rather than justlinux  on its own.13:59
popeybrobostigon: have you actually read it?14:06
popeyit does compare windows to various distros14:06
brobostigonpopey: yes, and it compares linux as an OS next to windows. i have an issue with the title only,14:06
wdhthen change it14:09
wdhthat is what wikipedia is about, isn't it?14:09
brobostigonmy issue has been discussed enough times already, so there is little point, in bringing it up again.14:10
brobostigongnu/linux might be better, to discribe the OS's in which linux is used.14:12
* brobostigon leaves the issue now.14:12
=== wolf is now known as Guest19635
cbx33hey14:32
cbx33any peeps in here know much about audio/visual?14:32
cbx33need someone who knows about dolby,DTS and the like14:33
popeycbx33: wassup?14:34
cbx33hey popey14:34
cbx33thinking about getting an AV receiver14:34
cbx33but a little confused with all the format chatter14:34
popey:)14:35
cbx33so14:35
popeywhat will you be playing back?14:35
cbx33well here's the thing14:35
cbx33I'll have a PS314:35
popeyanalog telly, virgin HD, sky HD, blueray, DVD?14:35
cbx33and that'll be playing dvds and any bluray14:35
popeyok14:35
cbx33then there will be TV from a humax (only standard def) - so we can ignore that14:35
popeynot really14:35
cbx33I was looking at the sony strdh51014:35
popeythe humax does optical out doesnt it?14:36
popey9200T?14:36
cbx33yesh14:36
cbx33oh i hadn't thought of that14:36
cbx33heh14:36
cbx33i was gonna hook it up with analog cables14:36
cbx33:)14:36
cbx33now that sony, does Dolby Digital 5.114:36
cbx33which is fine in terms of the speakers I was looking at14:37
cbx33I don't want 7.114:37
popeyyeah, I have a 6.1 decoder/amp but "only" 5.1 speakers14:38
popeyand if you have a humax 9200T doing freeview you'll get Dolby Pro Logic out of it14:38
popeywhich is better than telly speakers in most places14:38
cbx33oh nice14:38
cbx33so my issue is14:38
cbx33the 510 doesn't do DTS14:39
popeythe 510?14:39
cbx33the sony14:39
popeyis that an amp?14:39
popeyah14:39
cbx33yes14:39
cbx33the AV receiver14:39
cbx33http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hcs-home-cinema-receiver/str-dh510#pageType=TechnicalSpecs14:39
popeyhow many of your DVD/Blue Ray collection are in DTS?14:39
bigcalmMinecraft is down? :(14:40
cbx33i don't know without looking through them....but what I want to know is....what will i hear if I play them14:40
cbx33will i hear anything?14:40
popeyyes14:40
cbx33now that's presumably because seemingly all of them have dolby digital 5.1 on them14:40
cbx33and seemingly all have htat decoding capability14:40
popeybrobostigon: looks that way14:40
popeyi havent looked at recent kit cbx33 but that would sound plausible14:41
cbx33right14:41
cbx33so if the industry moved away from putting dolby digital 5.1 on blurays14:41
cbx33in favour of dts-hd as a standard for example14:41
cbx33I would be unable to play them?14:41
popeyyou'd upgrade your hardware like a good little consume wouldn't you? :)14:42
cbx33popey.....in my current setup.....what does the decoding?14:42
cbx33blu ray -> tv14:42
cbx33sorry14:42
cbx33ps3 -> tv14:42
cbx33i presume the ps314:42
popeyhow are they connected?14:43
cbx33hdmi14:43
danfishpopey: popeycam shows your garage window is open14:43
popeydanfish: its fine14:43
popeythanks14:43
danfishnp :)14:43
popeynot sure cbx33 I dont have a ps314:44
popeynor any bd14:44
cbx33oh14:44
cbx33heheh14:45
cbx33maybe the two communicate14:45
popeyhaha14:45
cbx33i mean like capabilities14:45
popey</guesswork>14:45
cbx33hahah14:45
cbx33ok ok ok14:45
cbx33:p14:46
gordfyi, the ps3 is still the best bluray player around14:51
gordmainly just because it gets patches to support all the latest stuff, its even better than sony blu ray players14:52
cbx33heh14:52
cbx33good good14:52
cbx33but where is audio decoded?14:52
cbx33:p14:52
cbx33i'm guessing it must be on the ps314:52
* brobostigon dissappears, he is fed up.14:52
gordi would actually guess that the audio gets decoded AFTER the hdmi cable, so ps3 -> hdmi -> decoded here14:54
cbx33on the tv?14:54
popeythat would make sense14:54
gordyeah14:54
cbx33hmm14:54
cbx33ok14:54
gordalthough the ps3 also has optical out, i'm not 100% on how that works but i think its a similiar situation14:55
popeyoptical out means decoding is done on the other end of the optical cable14:55
gordi keep trying to find some optical in 5.1 speakers but i can't find anything thats not £1000 :(14:55
cbx33gord - cheaper to buy an AV receiver + speakers14:56
gordmy tv doesn't support adding more speakers and really don't want to get a reciever just for surround sound (my tv has like 5 hdmi inputs so i don't need it for that)14:56
cbx33I've been loooking for AGES14:56
gordcheeper, but i dont' want one :)14:56
cbx33heheh14:57
gordone day, someone is going to invent really high transmission wifi tech and i'll get rid of all the cables behind my tv and life will be wonderful14:58
Daraelgord: But nobody will implement it without some horrible DRM, and by that time the bastards will have made it illegal to use anything but an authorised bit of kit, which costs £lots.15:01
Darael</cynic>15:01
gordhdmi/bluray is already hugly infested with drm from the disk to the tv15:18
gordthis horrible world you describe already happened15:18
popeybigcalm: http://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/1650133737406464015:18
bigcalmPoop15:19
bigcalmTa :)15:19
gordi bet lots of people are trying to purchase minecraft before the price goes up tomorrow ;)15:19
bigcalmIt's going to Beta tomorrow?15:21
gordtis15:24
bigcalmThere is only one Bassnectar album on Spotify, how very irritating15:26
=== emma is now known as em
nperryWhy do people compare androis os and chrome os...15:49
nperryNot even the same target device :<15:49
sam_010203hello?16:03
Stefanoany bash expert please ?16:45
AzelphurAnyone here use Sky broadband and a lot of bandwith (200+GB/mo)16:52
AzelphurI heard a while back they have no FUP, this still true?16:52
DJonesAzelphur: I use Sky broadband, they don't have any caps17:03
Azelphurcool17:03
AzelphurDJones: I get through a lot of bandwith17:03
Azelphurlike 600GB/mo17:03
DJonesOuch17:03
Azelphur5 heavy users under one roof :)17:03
AzelphurSky should be ok though, right?17:03
Stefanoany 'bash' expert please ?17:04
DJonesAzelphur: I wouldn't like to say at that sort of levels, I probably use a max of 50Gb17:04
AzelphurDJones: haha17:05
cr215hi eeryone.  i am chris.  i think i am haing a sound input issue.  my internal mic works fine with the sound recorder program in the applications menu, but it wont work on skypr and google oice and other online things.  can anyone help me?17:22
Stefanohi cr21517:30
=== OmNomSequitur is now known as LordTebibit
LSEactuaryi need some help with ubuntu. i installed it yesterday and someone from the forum helped me install windoes xp as a section of ubuntu so i could sync my phone. however i find ubuntu is really annoying because my mouse turns off after 10 mins, i cant seem to use any of my discs, install anything, etc17:36
LSEactuaryand i tired changing my theme from ubuntu to an apple one off the lifehacker.com website and it didnt work17:37
LSEactuaryanyone there?17:43
MartijnVdS!weekend17:47
lubotu3It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.17:47
* Azelphur stabs the weekend17:48
MartijnVdSit's not dead yeat17:48
LSEactuaryi work during the week :(17:48
MartijnVdSyet*17:48
LSEactuaryokay does anyone know where i can download a windows XP instlalartion CD form because ubuntu is really confusing, and i really dont like it17:50
MartijnVdSyou don't download them, you buy them17:50
LSEactuaryi dont have one17:50
MartijnVdSBut what is your problem exacly? Which article did you read?17:50
brobostigon!illegal17:50
lubotu3piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o17:50
LSEactuaryeverything came preinstaled17:50
brobostigonLSEactuary: as long as you have a licence, you should be able to get a c matching that licence.17:51
AzelphurLSEactuary: #windows is that way -->17:51
LSEactuaryi cant find the number/documents or anything. hence i installed ubuntu. bur its rubbish. i cant use any programme i used tp17:51
LSEactuaryyesterday a guy helped me make a 'partition' so that i could use windows as a vitualbox but im experiencing so many problems17:52
LSEactuaryi would rather just install widnows again17:52
AzelphurLSEactuary: #windows is still that way -->17:52
LSEactuaryhuh?17:53
Azelphurif you want support with Ubuntu, ask a Ubuntu question, if you want support with windows, go to the windows channel17:53
LSEactuarywhich is where?17:53
AzelphurLSEactuary: #windows >.>17:53
brobostigon#windows17:53
LSEactuaryvery funny17:53
brobostigon /join #windows17:53
Azelphurtype ^17:53
brobostigonLSEactuary: it is no joke.17:53
LSEactuaryoh17:53
Azelphurindeed17:53
AzelphurLSEactuary: we're happy to help with any problems your having with Ubuntu, but if you have your mind set and want to use Windows, go ask them for help with windows :p17:54
LSEactuaryi dont mind using ubuntu but its just useless for everything i need.17:55
AzelphurLSEactuary: that's not really a question or something we can solve :/17:55
Azelphurif you just keep saying it sucks and is useless, then your wasting everyones time including your own17:55
Azelphurif you actually want to say something constructive, get on with it17:55
LSEactuaryokay fine. i want to install a programme (ISO file) and its not letting me do that. ive installed a xp virtualbox so i can sync my iphone but i cannt seem to use the xp version without my mouse vanishing17:56
AzelphurLSEactuary: an iso file isn't a program it's a disk image, you don't install it17:57
Azelphurwhat program is it?17:57
LSEactuaryi want to make the desktop look like a mac and did google around but macbuntu is virused or something but i dont like the layout17:57
LSEactuarysonic digital media home edition17:57
brobostigon!wine17:57
lubotu3WINE is a compatibility layer for running Windows programs on GNU/Linux - More information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine - Search the !AppDB for application compatibility ratings - Join #winehq for application help - See !virtualizers for running Windows (or another OS) inside Ubuntu17:57
AzelphurLSEactuary: what does it do?17:57
Azelphurnever heard of that one before17:58
brobostigonLSEactuary: if its a windows prog, have youchecked if it will runnunder wine ?17:58
Azelphurbrobostigon: check for native alternatives first :)17:58
Azelphurbrobostigon: wine is the last resort xD17:58
brobostigonAzelphur: i agree.17:58
LSEactuaryit burns my home movies onto a DVD RW and lets me customise dvd menus17:58
AzelphurLSEactuary: install devede, it does the same thing17:58
AzelphurI make loads of dvd's with menus using devede, it's in the software center17:58
brobostigon!devede17:59
brobostigon!info devede17:59
AzelphurLSEactuary: devede is also free :)17:59
lubotu3devede (source: devede): simple application to create Video DVDs. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 3.16.9-0ubuntu3 (maverick), package size 1976 kB, installed size 3936 kB17:59
_Hanyone know where I can aquire a 233 cm by 117 cm manual projection screen? like a roller blind but with a black back and a white front18:04
_HI want to be able to use it as a projection screen and also a normal blind [duel use]18:05
LSEactuaryis it like MS?18:05
AzelphurLSEactuary: ?18:05
LSEactuarydevde18:06
AzelphurLSEactuary: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm read this18:06
Azelphurmainly problem #1 and maybe problem #2 :P18:06
brobostigonLSEactuary: can i ask a question, did the person who helped you install ubuntu, tell you about these possible implications ?18:06
LSEactuarylol18:06
AzelphurLSEactuary: any other stuff your msising besides a tool to author DVDs?18:11
LSEactuaryitunes18:11
AzelphurLSEactuary: rthymbox18:11
Azelphurit can do iphones too I believe18:11
brobostigonyes, i believe so.18:12
brobostigon!info libgpod18:12
lubotu3Package libgpod does not exist in maverick18:12
brobostigon!info libipod18:12
lubotu3Package libipod does not exist in maverick18:12
brobostigon!info libpod18:12
lubotu3Package libpod does not exist in maverick18:12
Azelphurbrobostigon: fail :p18:12
AzelphurLSEactuary: that one ships with Ubuntu, so it's already in Applications > Sound & Video18:12
brobostigonhttp://libipod.sourceforge.net/18:13
LSEactuaryis there a way of changing the layout - make it look like a amac18:13
AzelphurLSEactuary: yes, but why make it look like a mac, macs are ugly18:13
* brobostigon goes for food, brb.18:13
LSEactuaryi like macs18:13
AzelphurLSEactuary: http://game.azelphur.com/forum/post-your-desktop#comment-15118:13
Azelphurcheck out my desktop ;)18:13
AzelphurI'd take that shizzle over maccrap any day18:13
LSEactuarythats just overkill! lol18:14
Azelphur;)18:14
LSEactuaryanother gut here installed macbuntu yesterday and it messed up his computer. hence i want a safe version...18:15
* popey notes that Azelphur clearly hasn't seen recent default ubuntu desktops18:15
AzelphurLSEactuary: it's even more overkill when I tell you that I have the same setup...on my netbook :D18:15
popeywhich look very similar to osx18:15
Azelphurpopey: haha18:15
AzelphurI have, my mum runs default18:15
popey:)18:15
popeyhttp://popey.com/webcam/ my poor snowman looks lonely18:16
LSEactuarybrb18:16
exobuzzpopey, make him a friend!18:16
Azelphurpopey: pro snowman :p18:17
exobuzznice snowman though18:17
Azelphurexobuzz: are you in the UK?18:17
exobuzzyeh.18:17
Azelphurwhat ISP you with to use all that bandwith?18:17
exobuzzbe18:17
AzelphurI see18:18
Azelphurthey ain't available in my area :(18:18
bigcalmGood evening peeps18:20
exobuzzAzelphur, where are you ?18:20
AzelphurMargate, Kent18:20
popeyhullo bigcalm18:20
Azelphurthink I'm going to be a Sky customer.18:21
popeyhaha18:21
* popey points and laughs18:21
Azelphurwhy? :p18:21
bigcalmHeh18:21
bigcalmAww18:21
Azelphurthey are unbundled in my area and have unlimited with no fup18:22
Azelphursounds like a good deal *shrug*18:22
popeyno fup you say18:22
exobuzzhttp://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NDTHA18:22
Azelphurpopey: yup18:22
popeythey do18:23
popeythey call it something else :)18:23
popeyhttp://www.sky.com/shop/terms-conditions/broadband/usage-policies/18:24
bigcalmI have an idea to add a ambient sound scape feature to my joggler alarm clock for those who find it hard to get to sleep. Add it as a feature or start it as a new app?18:24
Azelphurpopey: http://tinyurl.com/fwdunlimited18:24
* Azelphur looks18:24
MartijnVdSbigcalm: sounds like an mp3 player ;)18:24
popeyI'd prefer to look at a url on skys website than five18:24
Azelphurpopey: that appears to just be for the cheaper sky packages that has a cap, they have more than package18:25
MartijnVdSbigcalm: ambient soundscape mp3s ;)18:25
Azelphurthey have 2GB, 40GB and unlimited18:25
Azelphurso from what I can see it's what happens if you go over on the capped cheaper packages18:25
popeywhere does it say that?18:25
Azelphur"If you subscribe to a Product that has a cap on the amount of data that you download"18:25
popeyahh18:25
Azelphur:D18:26
Azelphurand that link I gave is the gadget show giving them props for having no fup18:26
exobuzzthey do traffic management stuff though18:26
Azelphurexobuzz: what kind of traffic management?18:26
exobuzzin the usage policies18:27
exobuzzIn addition, we monitor customers who use the most bandwidth and whose usage is having a negative effect on other customers. Customers who breach the Usage Cap or who regularly download large amounts at peak times will have restrictions placed on their accounts to reduce their download speeds at peak times.18:27
exobuzzthat too18:27
LSEactuaryhow do you join windows?18:27
exobuzzso download too much at peak times, and they might throttle you18:27
Azelphurexobuzz: haha18:27
popeyLSEactuary: you need a registered nickname I think18:27
popey!register | LSEactuary18:28
lubotu3LSEactuary: Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick <nickname> » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode18:28
LSEactuaryas in the live chat18:28
LSEactuaryand to talk to a specific member?18:28
Azelphurexobuzz: still gotta be better than what I'm on now, 60GB peak times, unlimited off peak with a FUP18:28
popeydownload less?18:29
Azelphurpopey: never :p18:29
LSEactuarydo we type /join and then the memebers name?18:29
cr215my mic doesnt work with skype or google voice or icall but it works in the voice record application, however in sound settings the input level is not shown going up or on even though it is in sound recorder...  some people who were unable to help with my problem in #ubuntu reffered me here18:29
cr215cna somebody help me?18:29
popeyLSEactuary: see the link I just posted18:29
exobuzzhttp://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/all-internet-porn-will-be-blocked-to-protect-children-under-uk-government-plan/story-e6frfkui-122597348128718:30
LSEactuaryi am regsitered!18:30
popeyLSEactuary: you aren't signed in18:30
popeyto freenode18:30
LSEactuaryoh18:30
LSEactuaryim on xchat18:30
Azelphurexobuzz: suddenly, a wild china appears.18:30
cr215exobuzz:whatttttttt???  thats messed up..   i live in philadelphia and i heard that there are cameras everywhere recording everybody in the uk is that true?  there are a few being put up in philly too18:31
MartijnVdSsomeone will claim some point from ECHR and the rule will be gone18:31
MartijnVdSEDHR*18:31
cr215its so totalitarian i hate it18:31
Azelphurexobuzz: yup that's true, on an average day a UK citizen is on camera like 200 times a day18:31
Azelphurcameras everywhere18:31
MartijnVdSno it's C18:32
MartijnVdSyou're all welcome in .nl18:32
cr215yea there slowly putting up more and more in philly18:32
AzelphurI just wish they'd apply the same rules to the internet as they do for other similar industries18:32
cr215when i lied in new hampshhire the ppl there wouldnt een tolerate traffic cameras lol they would desyroy them18:33
AzelphurIf it's the ISP's responsibility to stop porn from hitting my computer, then it's my phone providers responsibility to ensure I don't get telemarketing or abusive phone calls.18:33
Azelphur:p18:33
Azelphurcr215: haha18:34
Azelphurthey still do get destroyed often18:34
cr215its dunno about in the uk but in the us your pretty much damned if you do and damned if you dont when it comes to voting tfor the two parties18:34
MartijnVdSuk is basically two-party as well18:34
MartijnVdS2.5 ;)18:34
Azelphur\o/18:35
Azelphurpirate party needs to save us.18:35
cr215labor and conserative right?18:35
MartijnVdSAzelphur: get the Dutch system :) we have 8-10 parties in parliamente at any given time, with 2-3 forming coalition cabinets :)18:36
Azelphuro.O18:36
MartijnVdSit forces everyone to talk to each other, makes things a lot less explosive :)18:36
cr215sounds cool..  amsterdam is in the nl's right?18:37
MartijnVdSit is18:37
brobostigon:)18:37
cr215@Martijnds: 8 to 10 parties sounds awesome..  do you find more representation that way?  i know i as a oter hae never come across a refferendum question onANYTHING BIGGER THAN THE LOCAL LEEL18:40
cr215my bad on the caps18:41
MartijnVdScr215: you get more representation, but it still falls apart in 2-3 "camps" (left/right/middle basically)18:41
MartijnVdSinside the "camps" parties differ on minor issues18:41
MartijnVdSbut no party ever had a majority on its own18:41
cr215i wish people would look at the political spectrum with 2 dimensions like a web site surey i took one time18:43
* dutchie wonders if cr215 has seen http://votegeek.org.uk/the-shape-of-our-democracy/ by AlanBell 18:44
MartijnVdSyeah it's all multi-dimensional, but that's how they tend to vote ;)18:44
MartijnVdScr215: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_parliament18:44
cr215i have not18:44
cr215but i will right now18:44
cr215lol18:44
* Phineas is in a bad mood18:47
MartijnVdSPhineas: Why?18:47
* brobostigon scp's Phineas a whisky.18:48
PhineasMartijnVdS,  stupid o2 i topped up late and now i get charged for everything i do except play games18:48
LSEactuaryout_cold_ are you online?18:48
MartijnVdSPhineas: ouch18:48
MartijnVdSPhineas: only mobile? or do O2 do home broadband as well?18:49
PhineasMartijnVdS, they do do hmoe bordband but i havn't got it18:49
MartijnVdSDoes this work from the UK? http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb18:50
PhineasMartijnVdS,  yes it does18:50
MartijnVdS\o/18:50
PhineasMartijnVdS,  if i want it to that is18:50
Phineaswhats propaganda?18:51
MartijnVdSthat's the "don't eat for a week for charity" week one of the public radio stations (think BBC Radio 1) is doing18:51
MartijnVdS.. if you want to learn Dutch, this is your chance ;)18:52
Phineasa line of a song is it's all just propaganda, i was wondering what they ment18:53
MartijnVdSPhineas: which song?18:53
andylockranczajkowski: how you getting on?18:54
PhineasMartijnVdS, Theres a platypus controlling me18:54
* MartijnVdS steps away slowly18:54
* Phineas will be back in 518:55
brobostigonlol, google translate mistaken plattduutsch for german,18:56
LSEactuaryjoiin/ out_cold_18:56
LSEactuaryjoin/ out_cold_18:56
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: well... "duutch" = deutsch = german ;)18:56
LSEactuaryhmm can someone help me. im trying to join a user called out_cold_ but its not working18:56
brobostigonMartijnVdS: with a sprinkling of dutch.18:57
MartijnVdSLSEactuary: you don't join users, you join channels18:57
jacobwLSEactuary: /msg out_cold_ YOUR MESSAGE HERE18:57
brobostigonLSEactuary: you can only join channels. not users.18:57
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I know :) but you English named "Dutch" wrong ;)18:57
LSEactuaryoh - well the guy who Pmed me was out_cold_18:57
jacobwLSEactuary: what IRC client are you using?18:57
LSEactuarylike we were on a seperate chat18:57
MartijnVdSLSEactuary: so pm him back ?18:57
LSEactuaryumm xchat18:57
brobostigonMartijnVdS: hmm, well, probebly, yes.18:57
LSEactuaryi dont know how to18:57
jacobwLSEactuary: is there a tab named out_cold_18:58
MartijnVdSLSEactuary: just talk back in the new window?18:58
jacobwLSEactuary: that is a private message window with that user18:58
brobostigonLSEactuary: there might be some options next to that persons nick inside the nick list.18:58
LSEactuaryyes - how do i contact out_cold_18:58
LSEactuaryi was talking to him and then had to restart18:58
jacobwLSEactuary: type /msg out_cold_ hello18:58
LSEactuaryokay thanks18:59
jacobwLSEactuary: and a new window will appear on the tab list addressed to out_cold_18:59
Phineasi am back19:00
brobostigonwb Phineas19:00
MartijnVdS\o19:00
LSEactuaryokay done! :)19:00
* jacobw is slowly working through K&R C19:01
jacobwtakes much longer than one anticipates19:01
MartijnVdSk&r is fun19:01
jacobwi'm enjoying it :)19:01
jacobwchapter 1 is much better language tutorial than i've ever encountered before19:02
MartijnVdSthe only way to win people for your language is to teach them19:02
MartijnVdS:)19:03
Phineasgoden targ19:03
Phineasoops i can't spell19:03
dutchiegoeden daag19:03
dutchie(is that right MartijnVdS?)19:04
MartijnVdSgoedendag, but that sounds really old-fashioned19:04
brobostigonor in platt, it would simply be, moin.19:04
MartijnVdSwe usually just say 'hoi!' ("oy!" with an h in front) or "hallo"19:04
jacobwisn't that just 'guten tag' .. ?19:04
MartijnVdSGuten Tag ist Deutsch :)19:04
brobostigonjacobw: gutentag is german,19:05
dutchiecan i remember the dutch numbers19:05
jacobwyes i'm aware of that :)19:05
MartijnVdSdutchie: 1234567890, they're the same as yours 8-)19:06
jacobwi was just saying it was similar19:06
jacobwhehe19:06
MartijnVdSor do you mean één twee drie vier vijf zes zeven acht negen tien :)19:06
dutchieeen, twee, drij, vier, vijf, ?, seben and that's as far as i can go19:06
dutchieah, zeven19:06
dutchieclose19:06
MartijnVdSand "drij" (pronounced the same as "drei") is German again ;)19:07
brobostigonsieben, close.19:07
MartijnVdSbrobostigon, dutchie: if you want to hear real Dutch, check out that link I posted earlier :)19:08
jpdsjacobw: →19:08
brobostigonMartijnVdS: at the moment, plattduutsch is probebly the cloest, i will understand.19:09
brobostigonMartijnVdS: i will give it a listen, :)19:09
brobostigonMartijnVdS: thank you,19:10
MartijnVdShe's translating Chef - Salty Balls now :)19:10
dutchiei have bad memories of that song19:10
MartijnVdSdutchie: what was her name? ;)19:10
dutchie"lugradio 2009 karaoke"19:11
MartijnVdShaha :)19:11
NafalloO_O19:11
MartijnVdSdutchie: the guy that's now on the webcam stream lipsyncs EVERY song he plays, and acts along with lots of them19:13
MartijnVdSIf he was a computer geek instead of a music radio/geek he'd be here ;)19:13
bigcalmFor a limited time only (until I hit svn up), you can hear multiple copies of Crazy Words - Crazy Tune playing by repeatidy clicking "test" in http://idophp.co.uk/touch_alarm/19:31
bigcalmIt's a little weird19:31
LSEactuaryout_cold_ i cant seem to join your chat19:34
brobostigonLSEactuary: i dont see a user with that nick in here,19:36
LSEactuaryhe was talking to a a min ago...19:36
brobostigoni dont see a user now in here with that nick.19:37
LSEactuaryokay19:37
brobostigonthere is however a user with that nick connected to freenode, but not in a channel as far as i can see.19:38
LSEactuaryokay got him no worries19:39
brobostigonok.19:39
brobostigon /msg19:39
daubersEvening20:10
brobostigonevening daubers20:11
MartijnVdS\o20:11
* daubers is trying to sort christmas party logistics20:11
MartijnVdSyour turn organising it? :)20:12
daubersMartijnVdS: Nope, just need to get there....20:12
MartijnVdSjet pack.20:12
MartijnVdSdefinitely20:12
Nafallodaubers: what station are you going from?20:13
Nafallodaubers: station/line20:13
LSEactuaryjoin/ #km020120:13
MartijnVdSLSEactuary: /join not jion/20:13
daubersNafallo: Probably going from Reading20:13
Nafallodaubers: what line is that?20:13
LSEactuarylol20:13
daubersGetting to the station is currently what I need to sort. I won't get home until 6, so at the earliest at the station at 6:30 then an hour to London.20:14
daubersNafallo: Paddington :)20:14
* Nafallo tends to keep within zone3 ;-)20:14
Nafallomeh. this line thing I'm asking for are not a station ;-P20:14
* MartijnVdS doubts he'll be able to get to work tomorrow20:14
NafalloI will definitely not get to work tomorrow. I have a day off :-P20:15
daubersNafallo: It's the line that goes from Swansea to London Paddington20:15
MartijnVdSNafallo: I have all of _next_ week (and the week after that) off :)20:15
MartijnVdSNafallo: so it'll probably just be work-from-home day20:15
LSEactuarydoes anyone know how i can add 1 song ontop my iphone on ubuntu without changing anything else/deleting anythingelse20:16
NafalloMartijnVdS: ehrm. if you have all of next week, why are you going to work on the Monday? :-)20:16
MartijnVdSNafallo: no the week between Christmas and new year, and then the first week of the new year20:16
NafalloMartijnVdS: ah, so the weeks AFTER next week :-P20:17
ubuntuuk-planet[Phil Bull] Structuring developer tutorials; Realising the educational promise of open source code - http://philbull.livejournal.com/57522.html20:17
MartijnVdSNafallo: well.. yes.. :)20:17
daubersOoooh... never realised google maps shows the tube lines if you click on a station20:17
MartijnVdSNafallo: it's like "half six" meaning 6:30 instead of 5:30 (which is what it means in Dutch), I guess :)20:18
daubersHmmm...circle line to Kings Cross, then Northern Line to Angel20:19
NafalloMartijnVdS: yeah. Swedish is stupid like that as well.20:19
Nafallodaubers: sounds like a working plan to me :-)20:19
daubersProlly be there at 7:30 ish20:21
* Nafallo won't be there at all20:21
Nafallos/\'//20:21
daubersTut20:22
* daubers grabs a copy of the kernel code20:23
MartijnVdS"I'm so angry, I'm going to fix a random bug in the kernel"20:25
Nafallos/fix/create/20:26
daubers\o/20:27
MartijnVdSNafallo: s/fix/modify parameters of/20:27
daubersNafallo: Nah, still bashing my head against a problem at work. Wondered if it comes from a limitation somewhere in the kernel20:27
MartijnVdSLimits? In my kernel?!20:28
MartijnVdS(it's more likely than you think)20:28
NafalloMartijnVdS: I think you meant y isntead of s at this stage ;-)20:28
MartijnVdSdaubers: (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/x-in-my-y)20:28
dutchiedaubers: pretty much all the paddington trains go through reading though20:29
daubersdutchie: I knoww :) One more or less every 10 minutes20:29
MartijnVdScommuter trains20:29
dutchiethere is only 1 an hour to worcester :(20:30
dwatkinsI used to live in Reading, it really doesn't have that much to drag me back, though.20:31
daubersdwatkins: I'm in the middle of tilehurst.. so a little out of the center20:32
dwatkinsdaubers: I had no idea, we could have met up for a pint20:34
dwatkinsI used to live near Prospect Park20:34
brobostigoni have family just downthe road from you in purley, dwatkins20:34
brobostigondaubers: *20:34
Nafallo"a" pint implies one, which means you'd have to agree who's paying.20:34
Nafallotwo is better ;-)20:35
dwatkinsheh, I would have had a couple at least, Nafallo20:35
daubersdwatkins: Depends when that was... I only moved here..... 6 months ago20:36
dwatkinsdaubers: I moved away about a month ago20:36
daubersdwatkins: Heh20:37
* dutchie whizzed past daubers last week20:37
daubersdutchie: Off somewhere nice?20:40
dutchiedepends how much you like Disturbed20:41
daubersah20:43
daubersok20:43
dwatkinsWe are wondering if it will be possible to drive down South (from Edinburgh) this week, what with the snow, to see relatives in the area around Reading.20:43
MartijnVdSshould be fine, as long as you take the snow plough :)20:44
* brobostigon suggests dwatkins gets a tank20:44
exobuzzim sure its possible, but be prepared for getting stuck in traffic. take a shovel, provisions etc20:44
dwatkinsheh, I think I'll need one, yeah20:44
brobostigon:)20:44
dwatkinsexobuzz: yeah, that's the kind of thing that's making us think it might be better to stay at home.20:44
exobuzzyesterday where i live http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/oxford/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9302000/9302780.stm20:45
Azelphurany opinions on talktalk? apparently they don't have a FUP either20:45
* brobostigon waves @ exobuzz from just north of oxford.20:46
exobuzzhi :)20:46
AlanBelldwatkins: I think major routes should be OK if you can get out of edinburgh20:46
shaunothat's not bad at all.  you can almost make out the tarmac20:46
AlanBellbut be prepared20:46
exobuzzim in didcot just down a34 :)20:46
brobostigonAzelphur: they, and talktalk suck balls.20:46
Azelphurbrobostigon: know any other ISPs with no FUP? :(20:46
brobostigonAzelphur: not off hand, no, sorry.20:46
* dutchie is in oxford in term time20:47
dutchiecurrently worcester though20:47
Azelphurbrobostigon: hehe, me either so currently it's between them20:47
brobostigonAzelphur: talktalk sucks balls in all areas, i have been telling my dad tochange for years. avoid i suggest.20:48
daubersdwatkins: dwatkins Reading itself is fine20:50
Azelphurbrobostigon: what problems have you had with them?20:50
brobostigonAzelphur: improper billing, non-informent of change of contract, forced change of contract, poor telephone technical and customer support, total adsl failiure.20:51
Azelphurwhat did they change in the contract? :o20:52
brobostigonAzelphur: the service we recieve, to make it more expensive.20:52
Azelphuroh nice so they just increased the price without telling you?20:53
brobostigonAzelphur: essentially yes.20:53
Azelphurhow long was your ADSL down for also?20:54
brobostigonAzelphur: it dies sometimes 40 to 50 times in a day, around several days a month.20:55
Azelphurouch :/20:55
dwatkinsdaubers: it's not got any snow?20:55
brobostigonAzelphur: and then one day, almost a whole week.20:55
Azelphurnice20:57
Azelphurbrobostigon: I'm thinking sky then :p20:57
ali1234don't go near talktalk20:57
daubersdwatkins: Some snow, but the roads are easily passable. Been cleared and gritted quite well20:57
ali1234they are jokers20:57
brobostigonAzelphur: yes, and then they complained once, that they couldnt help, because i was diagnosing the network problems with debian, and refused to help.20:57
Azelphurbrobostigon: :/20:58
ali1234even talktalk business service is total rubbish20:58
brobostigonAzelphur: so i gave up on them.20:58
ali1234place i used to work had xen internet and everything was fine20:59
ali1234boss decided to go with talktalk because they were cheaper20:59
ali1234we had no internet for like 3 months20:59
brobostigon:(20:59
brobostigonouch.20:59
Azelphurali1234: any recommendations on ISP? :p20:59
ali1234the only recommendation i can make is don't believe anyone who says "unlimited"21:00
brobostigonAzelphur: an isp with native ipv6, you will need it.21:00
Azelphuryea :/21:00
Nafallommm. goscomb? ;-)21:00
dwatkinsdaubers: good to know, thanks - we had more snow here in the last hour or so, so I don't even know if I'll get to work tomorrow21:00
brobostigon:)21:00
Azelphurali1234: We're doing a lot of bandwith though, 5 heavy users in the house, 500+GB/month21:00
Azelphurneed to find an ISP that can take the heat or I'm going to be spending the rest of my life heavily throttled21:00
brobostigonAzelphur: have you had a look at goscomb as Nafallo suggested ?21:01
Azelphursorry didn't notice that21:01
* Azelphur looks21:01
Nafallothey don't do unlimited though, but they are the only SixXS PoP in the UK last I looked :-)21:01
Nafallodo native IPv6 on their DSL21:02
Nafalloand they've got an Ubuntu mirror in-house ;-)21:02
* MartijnVdS has native IPv6 over DSL \o/21:02
popeyhmm21:02
* brobostigon wants know. :(21:02
brobostigonnow*21:02
popeyhow come my server only boots with the usb stick in21:02
AzelphurNafallo: no good for me then as I say21:02
Azelphur600GB/mo+ here21:02
popeyyet I have run grub-install /dev/sda21:03
popeyand it doesnt fail21:03
popeybut on boot without the usb stick (which installed from) it just sits there21:03
popeycursor flashing21:03
NafalloAzelphur: ehrm. that just went up 100GB in 2minutes...21:03
AzelphurNafallo: typo :P21:03
ali1234aaisp will do you 700GB/month for £119.07/month21:03
daubersdwatkins: Ooof.. nasty21:03
ali1234that is 200GB/month 9am-6pm mon-fri and 500GB all other times21:04
Azelphurhaha21:04
Azelphurout of my price range21:04
dauberspopey: Bios drive select set right?21:04
popeyhmm21:04
* popey is sure he checked that21:04
* popey reboots21:04
Nafallopopey: doublecheck! :-D21:04
Azelphurnobody really commented on sky, anything major wrong with them?21:04
dwatkinspopey: are you sure the stick isn't /dev/sda ? ;-)21:04
Nafallopopey: triplecheck! :-D21:04
MartijnVdSquad check21:04
ali1234if you can get by on 10GB daytime per month it's only £50/month21:04
popeydwatkins: no, i dont have a 160GB usb stick21:05
Azelphurali1234: I'm already on 60GB daytime per month and getting throttled into the floor for going over21:05
NafalloAzelphur: ehrm. have you considering throttling your users yourself? ;-)21:05
moreatipopey: is the HD plugged into an on-board controller, or a PCI expansion controller?21:05
popeyonboard21:05
AzelphurNafallo: everyone in the house is 100%+ over their fair share of the 60GB21:05
AzelphurI'd be cutting people off midday, including myself21:05
Yorvyk_popey, don’t you gave to run update-grub21:05
ali1234where do you live that has 5 heavy internet users with no job? student flat?21:06
Azelphurali1234: haha most have jobs21:06
Azelphurit's just a big house21:06
popeyhaha21:06
NafalloAzelphur: hence why I told you to cut them down yourself. 10GB quote for each user and cap them down to 33k6 after that :-)21:06
ali1234why are they using so much internet in daytime then?21:06
popeyboot order21:06
popey1> USB STICK21:06
popey2> Network21:06
popey3> Nothing21:06
popey:)21:06
Azelphurali1234: "daytime" according to my ISP is 8am-midnight21:07
NafalloAzelphur: also, change your habits :-)21:07
ali1234oh so you have a shit ISP then, well no wonder21:07
popey+121:07
Nafallopopey: still confused? ;-)21:07
Azelphurali1234: that's why I'm switching!21:07
popeyperhaps you should download slightly less copyrighted content Azelphur ?21:07
ali1234price calculator: http://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-prices.html21:07
Azelphurpopey: I don't download much copyrighted content during the day :(21:07
popeybah21:07
popeythats... not.. the point21:07
Azelphurit's only at night when my copyrighted content whoring comes in at about 20GB/day21:07
Azelphurlol21:08
popey"Boot failed, continue to look for Boot media"21:08
NafalloAzelphur: stop seeding these Ubuntu ISOs you! let people with gigabit *huhum* take care of that ;-)21:08
moreatiAzelphur: because the MPAA only works office hours?21:08
Azelphurmoreati: totally ;)21:08
AzelphurNafallo: haha21:08
Azelphurso any opinions on sky?21:09
AzelphurI havn't heard much negative for them and they have no FUP so I suppose they are the ones to try next21:09
Nafallohmm. I've only done 481.31GiB myself this month21:09
ali1234"no FUP" is a lie21:09
AzelphurNafallo: haha, what ISP are you with?21:09
NafalloAzelphur: my server ihas 4 redundant transit providers.21:10
AzelphurNafallo: that's your server?21:10
Nafallodynamic routing21:10
Nafallothat's one of my guests actually.21:10
Azelphurlol21:10
Nafallomaybe I should monitor the host aswell...21:10
AzelphurNafallo: http://dedicated.reliablesite.net/bandwidth/69.160.254.251_3-month.png my server :)21:10
Nafallobut the rest is doing f*kall21:11
ali1234can i like, buy a server with a blu-ray burner and a robot arm that loads discs, then puts them in envelopes, and they get mailed to me?21:11
Azelphurhaha21:12
_H9.724m² and laminate is £3.49 per21:13
_H9.724m² and laminate is £3.49 per m² umm how to work out how much it will cost to do in laminate?21:14
ali1234 9.724 * 3.4921:14
ali1234however this does not account for offcuts21:14
ali1234that depends on the shape or the area21:15
ali1234*of21:15
Nafallothe hell popey... stop splitting!21:15
popeywb everyone21:20
AlanBellwb popey, we missed you21:21
Nafallo21:15:37 < Nafallo> the hell popey... stop splitting!21:21
popeypffft21:21
* popey moves things from revo to shiny server21:22
Nafallopopey: is that your new hostname?21:22
popeyheh21:22
popeyno, its very sadly called "ubuntuserver" :)21:22
Nafalloyou suck at imagination21:22
* _H decides to be evil21:23
_Hnew bathroom door... three panes of one way glass21:23
Nafallo_H: which was, is the question :-)21:26
brobostigonlooks like a cancelled driving lesson due to weather, booked for tuesday.21:31
Nafallohaha21:31
brobostigon:(21:31
Nafallobecause this weather isn't worth learning to drive in! :-P21:32
Stefanohi from Italy  . I live in a place covered by  the 'Anti Digital Divide' project21:32
brobostigonNafallo: we have driven in it,  few times, but we just dont want to tempt fate.21:32
brobostigonNafallo: last time, my driving instructor asked me to purposly  try and slide the car,21:33
czajkowskilo21:36
brobostigonhey czajkowski :)21:37
popeyoh man, I've improved the 5 min chocolate cake!21:58
brobostigon:) yay21:58
gordheracy, such a wonderful device surely can not *be* improved!21:58
gingwhat is cake flour?21:58
popeyi used plain flour and added half a teaspoon of baking powder22:00
popeyand also added a small slug of liquer22:00
AlanBelloh my backup drive should *not* be making that noise22:00
popeybest one I've made so far22:01
AlanBellis it in a nice mug?22:01
popeyyes22:01
popeywell no22:01
popeyit was in a nice mug22:01
AlanBellpics plz22:01
popeythen a bowl, and now in my tummy22:01
popeytoo late22:01
popeywill probably make again this week22:01
popeythat was awesome22:01
AlanBellpics of tummy not required22:01
popey:)22:02
NafalloAlanBell: you shouldn't have your backup drive close enough to hear the noice? ;-)22:02
popeyheh22:02
AlanBellNafallo: I was contemplating a Natty upgrade so I want a local backup22:03
Nafallobah. telehouse is local enough for me ;-)22:05
popeyhey czajkowski hows things?22:11
=== monsterkiller is now known as MonsterKiller
brobostigonnos da, sleep well.22:30
dutchienight brobostigon22:31
brobostigonnight dutchie22:32
gordi just installed a dvd drive onto my system, how old school!22:39
jacobwping22:40
matttpong22:43
_Hfitting flooring the kitchen floor with an area of 9.724 m2 and a small bathroom with an area of 2.231 m2 and the hall 10m2 one person on her own for £40? fairor not?22:49
popey40 per hour?22:52
_Hno22:53
_Hfor the entire job22:53
popeyhow many hours work?22:53
_Hthat's what I am offering22:53
_H2 days if she's slow22:53
ali1234i would worry the guy is gonna rob me for that price22:53
popey2 days work for 40 quid!?22:53
ali1234it's too cheap, there must be something wrong22:53
* _H uses work women22:53
_Hwell that's what I am offering her22:54
popeyyou're in the UK right?22:54
_Hyes22:54
popeyyou're offering to pay someone 40 quid for 2 days work?22:54
_Hshe's german22:54
popeyat an 8 hour days thats 2.50 an hour22:54
_Hie she's efficient22:54
_Hoh22:54
popeyfor skilled manual labour thats pretty poor22:55
_H£50 fairer?22:55
ali1234what kind of floor are we talking about here?22:55
moreati_H: I would expect to pay more than £200 for a two day job, £80 a day absolute minimum22:55
* Joeb454 is with moreati on this one22:56
popeyI'm not good with area, so I can't tell what size you're looking at, but it doesn't sound anywhere near enough for the UK22:56
ali1234is it just a roll of lino? or is it the snap lock stuff?22:56
popey(which is why I asked where you were)22:56
_H£50 is min wage22:56
_Hand besides I am on min wage22:56
_Hpay me more and I will pay them more22:56
moreati_H: if you can't afford more than that, do it yourself22:57
ali1234yeah. £40/8 is £5 an hour22:57
ali1234that's if it can be done in 1 day22:57
ali1234and that depends what kind of floor it is22:57
_Hits 10 meters sq of http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/20144880 and 10 meters of non slip lino22:58
_Hor vinyl rather22:58
ali1234so both types22:58
_Htwo types of flooring yes22:58
_Hnon slip in the kitchin and bathroom22:58
ali1234the lino will be fast, the other stuff will be more fiddly to cut to the right sizes23:00
ali1234so i dunno23:00
popey_H: do you have the stuff that goes underneath, the liner? and the stuff that goes round the skirting board - for the wooden floor?23:00
_Hround the skirting board?23:01
ali1234you don't have underlay and gripper rods for lino.....23:01
moreati_h is this german lady a skilled floorer? Why are you offering an amount rather than her quoting an amount?23:01
ali1234if it is there and needs to be removed, that will take a few hours23:01
_Hits bare flooring no nails or obstructions it is a very simple job23:04
_Hthough the laminate is fiddly23:04
ali1234according to google you are supposed to put a sheet of plastic under the laminate as a moisture barrier23:05
popeythats what I said23:05
popeya liner23:05
ali1234i dunno.... seems like this project has a high potential of failure due to nobody knowing what they are doing :/23:06
popeyheh23:06
_Hno23:06
_Honly on concrete23:06
moreatiI think that depends on the surface: concrete = moisture barrier + insulation; wood = insulation (for thernmal/noise)23:06
_Hif on wood then a liner is required23:07
ali1234anyway, as i origially said, someone who quoted me £40 for this job, i would not trust them in my house23:07
_Hok23:08
_H:)23:08
dwatkins40 quid?!23:08
dwatkinsThat's not enough for a workman to pop round and unload his tools.23:08
_Hbut if you told them 40 quid and they accepted?23:08
gord40 quid and at christmas :(23:08
dwatkinsWho is doing the job here, _H? you?23:08
popeythen I'd wonder what the quality of work would be like23:09
dwatkinsas popey says23:09
dwatkinsPerhaps you should start here, _H? http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6735770_lay-linoleum-kitchen-floor.html23:10
_Hthis is sligtly different23:10
_Hit's INDUSTRIAL strength stuff23:11
dwatkinsWhat is?23:11
_Hhttp://edinburgh.gumtree.com/edinburgh/61/66336261.html23:11
_Hthat's the add I am responding too23:11
ali1234"free consultation" - this means free quote :)23:12
_Hdwatkins: you know in modern hospitals they have that stuff the vinyl no slip stuff?23:12
dwatkinsAny quality workperson should provide a free quote.23:13
dwatkins_H: I am aware of the flooring used in hospitals, yes23:13
_Hdwatkins: its that stuff23:13
DaraelGot a small problem with my wifi.  Network-manager insists the device is not ready.  I know it is, because wicd connects fine.  I've tried stopping wicd before nm starts, etc etc, nm still complains.23:13
dwatkinsI would hesitate to respond to any advert written entirely in capital letters, and would prefer to go on personal reccomendation or look people up in the local yellow pages, but each to their own.23:13
dwatkins_H: are you having it fitted to your home?23:14
ali1234what's wrong with all caps? just cos they don't know internet means they can't lay flooring?23:14
_Hsorry my motherboard is dodgy23:15
_Hdwatkins: what where you saying?23:15
dwatkinsali1234: yeah, fair enough, it just doesn't seem right to me23:15
_Hali1234: ?23:16
ali1234just talking about ALL CAPS23:16
_HYEAH ALL CAPS IS WRONG23:16
_HI HATE IT23:16
_Hlol23:16
dwatkinsSo, is this your home, _H?23:16
dwatkins(the one to which the flooring is to be fitted)23:17
_Hyup23:17
dwatkinsand I assume you're not fitting it yourself for reaons of not being experienced in such matters, _H23:17
_Hthe reason I have chosen tht vinyl is its safer23:17
_Hand more hygenic23:17
_Hyes23:17
* _H has no tools23:17
_H(other than her self)23:18
dwatkinsFair enough. My tools are in storage, so I can understand how that's all too possible.23:18
DaraelAnyone got any experience with radvd?  I've got a HE tunnel up and radvd running, but my other machines don't seem to pick it up.23:18
dwatkinsSo, what was the question?23:18
_Hdwatkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/545765/ this read ok or does it have ioerrors for you?23:28
popeygrrr23:28
popeyscping files to my server, ssh keeps dropping23:28
popey"Write failed: Broken pipe23:28
popeynothing in dmesg23:28
popeytwo machines ssh'ed in crap out at the same time23:29
=== _H is now known as mario_the_plumbe
popeyone is ssh showing top, the other is scp23:29
mario_the_plumbeyou err have a broken pipe?23:29
mario_the_plumbe:P23:29
popeyheh23:29
mario_the_plumbefozen I see... we get that a lot it's the evil lord ku23:30
=== mario_the_plumbe is now known as _H
_Hanyone know how to level a floor? I mean I have a kichin that slops to on side...23:33
ali1234it involves digging up the whole floor and relaying it23:33
ali1234assuming concrete23:33
_Hali1234: wooden23:54

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